Slashdot Mirror
Dell Releases First Consumer Product with Mandriva
WindozeSux writes "Dell Laptops(Latitude 110L) are now shipping with Mandriva Linux pre-installed. Mandriva says this represents a milestone to make Linux more available to consumers. From the article:"This product shows the world that Mandriva is today ready for the consumer market. We've been developing products for the corporate and enthusiast markets for years. Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home", said François Bancilhon, Mandriva CEO"
Maybe if they start selling computers with Athlon 64's, I might consider buying one. Maybe. I'll probably just build another one though.
It seems that cunning Linux zealots embedded a subliminal message in that article as the submitter's name. I don't expect such shoddy journalism from Slashdot, which is normally a high quality news source.
First consumer angrily sends back 'discount' Dell computer for not having Windows.
Fly a plane over Sun with the banner "YEAH, WELL WE HAVE MANDRIVA!"
I am!
But we'll see how long it lasts.
Ignore Alien Orders
Somebody want to tell my parents this and, while you're at it, tell them I'm not available on loan.
Changing a source's name in a citation unless explicitly stated is very shoddy journalism and is generally reserved for those who would come under threat from the quote in question.
If someone wants to go by a daft name then fair enough, it's not the editors' job to protect submitters from chosen embarassment.
I say bring them on Dell, HP. You might have found a way to make me (and many other geeks) customers again.
Open Source Sushi
Can the machines be purchased in the USA?
The Dell Latitude line is geared toward business users. The Inspiron line is for home users. According to Dell's Linux page:
Dell does not officially support running Linux on Dell laptops."
So where can I order one of these things?
then the average consumer... of course "line-ux?"
Slash-for-Thought
It seems linux distos like Mandriva and Red Hat have totally and completely forgotten their roots. Isn't the goal of Linux to provide a QUALITY os to people for FREE and have it OPEN SOURCE so the Linux community can make their own modifications to the code? And yet to get a x86-64 version of Mandriva, its going to cost me $150, plus shipping. WTF is that. Winblows is cheaper than that. I mean yes, they need to make some profit to keep going and cover packaging costs, but holy shit....I mean seriously. They are turning into another money grubbing microshaft corporation. I've seen so many linux distos now that dont offer half their products as a free download anymore. but what do I know....
"Potpourii doesn't taste as good as it smells." - Dark_Link2135
as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home.
Or you do have one at home, but he gets grumpy if you ask him questions without rtfm.
xao
http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
you don't have a system admin or professional technician
This, and the article says it's being sold direct to students. I went back to school for another degree last year and the specs for the required notebook said Windows XP Pro or 2000 ONLY. The networking people won't let you connect to the school LAN with anything else. I suspect other schools have similar policies. Linux preinstalled systems should be the high end models for hard core technical users, not the nearly bare bones Celeron student models, IMNSHO.
Whatever you think of Dell, this is good for Linux.
Last year, notebooks for the first time out-sold desktops. So this is a very timely announcement. The momentum of notebook sales could carry over to desktop Linux.
and did some nice AMD stuff with Linux preloaded on the server line I would be a happy bunny
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
everyone was a n00b once, even you. more os choices out there means a better product.
always mosh clockwise
As long as the code remains free the ideal remains. They can charge whatever they want for the binary package, you always got the freedom of the LFS distro if you don't want to pay them for their hardwork.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/
http://www.xandros.com/
http://tuxmobil.org/
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html
I don't see, why should it be called "a milestone". In my country (Czech Republic) almost all PC vendors let user choose whick OS he/she wants. Besides Windows and Linux they also provide FreeDOS. I think there is a law forbidding selling computer set without operating system, so this is a way to go for people who want to install they own system and dont't want to pay for Windows. I don't know what is usual in USA but I would expect the same. Can someone explain it to me, please?
Yes
Having seen dell in action "considering" AMD in hopes of squeezing more discounts out of Intel, and seeing as Microsoft has a new version of Windows coming along, my guess is that this is just posturing to squeeze better discounts out of Microsoft on Vista OEM pricing.
It's a nice thought, but probably just a ploy.
But not that big. Sure, you could get Dell's with dedhat before.
I may get one actually, since I need a good laptop with linux running on it. I've had a lot of luck buying a winblows machine and then rolling my linux install, but sometimes vendors play too shifty with components.
Which is why I'd stillbe concerned about this one. The vendor I've had the most issues with *shifty* components lately is dell.
And I like AMD/s.
-=fshalor
Because I'm a Mandriva.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
YOU SUCK!
And you have a n00b UID.
What a loser.
``Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home''
With a good Linux distro, there's less of a need to. Less computer expertise is needed to keep the system free of malware, and if it works now, it will still work years down the road (barring hardware failures). Also, desktop distros can and do include lots of drivers for various pieces of hardware, so that you can just plug in your device and start using it. YMMV, but I've had more success with this on Linux than what I see in the Windows world.
Now for the question: how good is Mandriva Linux these days? My experience with Mandrake wasn't particularly good, and I'd hate to see Linux get more bad rap because Dell chose to ship with an inferior distro. I assume polish won't be a problem, but what about package management? Does dependency resolution work? Do all packages work? Is the collection of available packages large enough? What about the software that comes pre-installed? Does it cover most users' needs, or would most people have to install extra software first thing when they get the machine? To what extent are Linux skills transferable to and from other distros (proprietary configuration tools, heavily customized desktops, etc)?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Fallacious logic. If new people are never allowed to use things which they are new to, then no one is ever allowed to use anything that they're not currently using. You could never have a new Linux user, which means Linux could do nothing but die out as the population of Linux users eventually succumbs to mortality.
By your own logic, you should never go anywhere you don't currently go. Don't switch grocery stores, don't switch clubs... don't even switch TV channels because you'll just be a newbie to it, a realm in which you don't belong.
Maybe you should start your own business, and from the day you open hang a sign on the door that reads: "If you're not an existing customer, go away."
Mandriva says this represents a milestone to make Linux more available to consumers.
Ummm, I seem to recall that Redhat used to be available pre-loaded on Dell laptops. Lets see how long it lasts this time.
Normal people are always asking their geek friends and relatives which computer to buy. Geeks never want to tell them to get Linux, even if it will be better and easier, because even that lower "Total Cost of Ownership" will then partly be paid by the geek who recommended it. Unless they recommend Dell, HP or some other vendor with a helpline, which will field (at least much first-level) support requests. Of course, the normals will buy a Dell or HP anyway, with Windows, no matter what the geek recommends, and then ask the geek for Windows support. Which the geek will be even less interested in giving.
Now that we can recommend Dell or HP with Linux, we'll do it much more often. When they get the Windows machine and ask us for support, we'll be able to say "send it back and get the right one this time". That kind of "word of mouth" is the best advertising Dell and HP could ask for. Way more valuable than a primetime season of "Dudes".
--
make install -not war
Yes Rly
What is this obsession of the Slashdot community towards calling everything a degrading name. Examples: Deadhat Winblows M$ LinSux etc. Can't you people get out of your mom's basement and grow up? Try getting a job in IT and then explaining to your CIO why you shouldn't use deadhat or winblows and see how long it takes for them to laugh in your face. Sorry, just a small gripe of mine.
These are only intended for French students, apparently.
:)
I suppose Dell could call them "Freedom Laptops" in the U.S.. Considering that they were running Linux, it would seem appropriate.
Yes, but does it run Li--Oh, wait...
No, but if you say it backwards, you get Avirdnam, which sounds like "A weird name". Which is what Mandriva is. (I actually created an IRC channel called #a_weird_name because of that)
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
MIT is heavy on the Linux usage, I hear. And here at Cornell, they've got no problems with non-Windows OSes like Linux or Mac. We even have a lab full of Linux computers.
I've got two of my own Linux machines on the network right now. In fact, one of them IS running Linux on a Celeron, the other on a Sempron.
I'm sure there are plenty of schools who are Linux- as well as Mac-friendly.
I RTFA, but still have questions...
Many posters assume that Dell has done some optimization / tuning / development. But the article says bubkis about that. Did Dell do any work so that things are guaranteed to run smoothly? E.g., is the WiFi support 802.11g, or is it just some old out-of-date 802.11b chipset? Does the power management, in particular sleep / standby mode, consistently work even with X11?
Seriously, if any of you know the answers (and aren't just presupposing one way or the other) let us know!
#DeleteChrome
This sounds excellent news. Yes it might be a ploy to give Dell more traction with Microsoft, but there again it might be sincere. It also goes to show that you don't have to be SuSE or Red Hat to score well, either. Mandriva has very firm markets in France and Brazil and in fact could make a very good living if it never went all that far outside them. This too shows that you don't have to take on the world to succeed in Linux, just do what you know as well as you can. By trying to span the world and appeal to everyone, SuSE and Red Hat might end up by appealing to no one.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
The GPL is about free of proprietary components, it has nothing to do with cost... why can't you people understand this? You try making money off of software that costs $0 and then tell Red Hat they're evil.
Insert Clever Sig Here.
Did you bother to read the GNU papers? Not Free as in "Free Beer" but Free as in "Freedom".
There's nothing wrong about charging for access to de readymade software as long as you can do what you want - read: access source code without restriction.
Okay, I took the bait. Nasty hook marks in my mouth now.
If they're serious about this, how come when doing a search for linux in their "search all dell" option on their home page, I get no results around this new offering? If they were really proud of this and really intended to sell it it'd be nice if they made a bit more noise about it. This feels like PR.
I've been using the OpenOffice.org 2.0 beta for a while, and it's gotten a lot better at opening MS Office files. If you install the MS fonts, it's hard to even see a difference in most files. I regularly use it on MS Office files people send me, and it hasn't failed yet. The beta is just about perfect. But there are some problems still, admittedly.
.odt documents to .rtf usually works, but there are some distinct formatting problems that have given me grief. I regularly generate files in manuscript format (in other words, double spaced, 1-inch margins, Courier-style monospace font, with headers in a "Author / Title / Page" format). If the document includes a single-spaced introduction at the top of the first page, then converting it to .rtf seems to drop all other text.
.doc format works fine.
Converting
That's a serious bug. Of course, converting to MS
I don't mean this to troll, but why does Linux have to dethrone desktop Windows to be considered successful as an operating system? Why can't it just live happily as a rock-solid server OS with a desktop component that some advanced users use?
The ______ Agenda
Saw this in my live bookmarks with the "driva" of mandriva cut off. First thought was they were taking a new (and expensive!) approach to tech support. Needless to say I was sorely disappointed.
I will be impressed when gnu/linux comes preinstalled on computers in the US.
This is a milestone in the history of Dell. Up until now if you wanted to buy a Dell computer (not a computer & MS Windows) you had to redial at least five times in order to get through to the right person and even then Dell still charged you the price for computer & Windows and you got a merchandise credit or had to wait for a so-called Windows refund check by snail mail.
I am glad to see that Dell realizes the huge market of people who would buy Dell computers if they didn't get charged for software they don't want.
Linux has traditionally been difficult on laptops - especially the power management aspects. If a vendor such as Dell or HP makes an effort, they can most certainly overcome the difficulties in heat and power management, sleep and hiberate. 2.6 kernels all have that ability now, but hardware compatibility and lack of available drivers are always result in a sub-optimal laptop. Linux laptops make a lot of sense from a security standpoint. Every Windows laptop in at a starbucks is essentially vulnerable to worms, spyware and hackers. I use a web-based database called Lightspoke - http://www.lightspoke.com/ and while part of the benefits of a web-based database is accessibility anywhere, I find myself paranoid about security when I use it at a coffee shop.
Lightspoke Web Based Database
Profi... oh, shucks, nevermind!
what, so you could sit there for days at a time while people dropped into it by mistake before continuing their search for a woman on IRC?
I would agree. Upgrading desktops is now mainstream, blue collar. I see it roughly analogous to earlier hotrodding by young dudes. You go in whitebox shops, mobos and drives, etc on the shelves. Empty fancy cases for sale, etc. It has become quite commonplace for people to be doing this in joe and josephine bubba land, and that's because it has gotten loads easier to do. Blue collar guys have no problems with tools in their hands, none whatsoever. There's little reason to drop several hundred on a new machine when one hundred fifty worth of mobo and chip and some new RAM does the trick more than adequately.
dell makes nice TFT screens but horribly low quality notebooks what i want to see is the Acer Ferrari 4005 with preinstalled linux (or at least without windows with it) - THIS would be really cool!
let's call the whole thing off
Ping of deaths on a my Windows 2000 machine configure by the network admin leaving as a dead machine. Network Admin ask where was the source of the ping of deaths coming from. O my anti windows system on my home network. Each switch has a warning notice don't connect anything version of Windows under Windows XP Pro with SP2 with firewall enabled to this network it will toast you machine.
Next comment Ok what is the ping of death machine a Windows XP Pro with SP2.
Yes you may run linux.
I got sick of people pluging in laptops and the like into my Adsl most people now ask in case I have added something else.
Windows XP Pro and 2000 ONLY networks are Active Directory networks.(Microsoft bad information of course) Linux Samba can join the network. The problem is that the Active Directory cannot browser or over ride the registry of the Linux machine(what registry). No admin snooping. Warning RDP can be actived threw Active Directory I feel much happier on a Linux box in a Active Directory domain.
Developers working on top secert projects really should not interface with the network with windows as there OS to much risk if snooping from a bad admin.
Does anyone have a link to a page that actually displays this product. I don't know but ususally they announce things like this then hide them like its a treasure hunt. It took me a while to find the servers with linux pre-installed.
The world came to an end! Why didn't somebody wake me? And send Satan a snow-shovel!
thanks man
and I abandoned it because it was plain and simple crap. Two years I used it and it was every bit as god awful as winders. I finally abandoned it for Suse and I've had no regrets. Just for grins, I loaded up Mandrake 10.1 on a spare machine to see if having a few more years experience would help make it run any better. Nope. Still crap. Lax security, MOST stuff doesn't work without heavy tweaking.
CUPS is screwed up, and forget getting a winmodem working.. Macromedia flash doesn't work and is hell to get working, Java doesn't work worth a damn, most mozilla plugins don't work.
It's a terrible distro. I would never recommend it to anyone. You want a distro that works straight out of the box? Suse.
Mandrake 10 on my computers refused to work with their HP printer-scanner. There was a driver, it just didn't work.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
Dell ships laptops with Linux
Dell stops shipping laptops with Linux
Dell starts shipping with Linux again... and it's a "milestone"
Then I'll know the darn hardware freaking works out of the box. I've had too many bad hardware experiences with Linux to even bother trying it on my new PC. I thought of trying Linux a couple different times, but hardware that doesn't work in Linux kept me from giving it a serious try. If I'd had more experience before running into hardware problems, maybe I would've fixed it, but running into it when I'm first learning a new OS is frustrating (I was still typing DOS commands in the DOS box, and know you guys call it something else).
As a long time Mandrake user *and* a fulltime sys admin I'd say for users-space Mandrake's offering is one of the best. But I'd also suggest that thats no-where near where it needs to be if they are planning Windows/Mac area market penetration.
:)
Its hardware detection has been some of the best for some time now, driver support, clean interface, all good things. Their configuration utilities knock Yast and FC.X off the butts, but they are a LONG way from providing either complete or reliable management solutions. Their package management solution is RPM based, but it excels well beyond YUM and its probably fair to say its on par with Debian's apt-get system, but you also have rpmdrake which wraps a comfy clear, easy-to-use GUI around it.
As far as commercial distros its the bee's-knees (although I haven't installed that free Linspire disk yet) and has the added bonus of being one of the few commercial companies going after the user desktop that still shows a commitment to the GPL.
That said, development hasn't shown any remarkable leaps in usability. Its a Linux distro and for the most part its about as good as any other favorite might be. It requires a hobbiest or enthusiast to use still, unless they've got something big they've been keeping under wraps, but 2005 (aka Mandriva) isn't remarkably better or worse then previous releases and they, along with most every other distro seem to be sticking pretty closely to the status quo, which isn't as innovative as I expect would be required to penetrate that particular consumer space, but I'm a sys admin, what do I know.
Quack, quack.
They've got to come out of the closet at some point.
I'm guessing you're using Active Directory shares, which you *could* support using under Linux, but I haven't seen any distro make it reasonable for a regular person (Novell/Suse ENT make some strides in that direction but more from the server stand-point...still interesting stuff).
:)
My guess is you're Linux laptop would simple be a support night-mare for them, so why would they "allow" it.
Quack, quack.
Does anyone else find it kinda weird that DIGG linked to this /. post instead of the Mandriva article? I'm going to try posting matching articles on both sites referencing each other.
I think we should grep each others tarballs
This will only be true if they free the drivers via gpl, etc. They can, if they are silly, release binary junk and then you are half way back to the windoze world where you need floppies and CDs that only work on one computer with a one particular distribution. Without source code, other distributions can't roll it into their kernels.
In the end, it does not matter. Six months or a year down the road the free community will have drivers that are better than what a single company can provide now.
It would be great if Dell decided that free software was the future and started requiring free drivers from their sub contractors. This would save everyone a lot of time and take a lot of the guesswork out of buying a new computer. As things stand, the safest way to buy a new computer is to try out Knoppix or Mepis on it. Binary drivers can help fill in the time between when you buy the computer and when you can really install your choice of distribution. That's second best and I don't recommend it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I've successfully run Knoppix 3.9 Live CDs on my corporate issued Thinkpad T40 and loved it. I was able to do everything I needed to do except write to the ntfs partition. I can play streaming audio and mp3s with XMMS, VNC to other computers, connect to my SMB shares, and open Word Docs. I ran it on my desktop and was even able to watch TV. I've also had varying degrees of success with SuSe, Feather Linux, FreeBSD, and Ubuntu Live CDs. The software is there and it works with laptops.
Take it easy. But take it. And if you can get it easy - take it twice.
You can see the tech specs for the Latitude 110L.
It has two choices of OS:
Genuine Windows® XP Professional
Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition
This article reports on a godsend to the Slashd^H^H^H^H^H^HLinux community and only ~230 comments? Even the static-man article that had more holes than swiss cheese got more than that.
Are all of the Linux fanatics off buying these laptops, or what?
Whenever asked to recommend a laptop, I recommend an Apple iBook (or Powerbook if they want something costly and big-screen) -- whether they accept the suggestion or not, my future support load is MUCH lower than if I recommended either Windows or Linux. And I can back it up... e.g. by pointing out that the geeks at Google mostly use Apple _laptops_, even though their desktops are mostly Linux and their servers invariably so (actually, I hear Rob Pike prefers a Mac even as his desktop... but, for desktops, I still prefer to recommend Linux, personally).
Alex
Alex
My coworker and I debate between the different distros. He loves and swears by Mandriva and I prefer a couple others (Fedora, Ubuntu, SuSE). Now I'm gonna have to go to work Monday and hear how Mandriva must be better since Dell is using it!
Is that anything like a mandingo?
Right, I'll have an Athlon64 3500+ Mandriva box, thanks. ...
...
uh, heh heh sorry I thought I'd heard you say you didn't do AMD.
(walks to door, crosses road)
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
If I had one pc I would require a dual boot, XP and linux, so what I would be happy with from a vendor is linux/ubuntu compatible hardware, or even install, AND a Windows install on a different partition.
My father is getting a laptop for Christmas, so having a spare partition and linux friendly hardware is high on my wish list for his machine, just incase I inherit it or he wants to dabble in linux (and/or) the viruses get too much for him.
Any recomendations of UK linux compatible laptop vendors? (I live in the south of Ireland and a minor dongle is required for the telephone between UK plug and south of Ireland plug).
Be Free: Free Software Tuition
"How about when you have to give a presentation and the virus infested OS does porn pop-ups over your slideshow? "
The organisation that employs me uses Windows for almost all of its desktop machines. They are all connected to the internet. I would say on an average day I see or use at least 5 different PCs. Never, in 7 years, have I seen a porn pop-up. Never.
Developers do not use servers to program on, linux might mainly be developed for servers, but not on servers. Also, new users do not try Linux on servers the first time around.
And why would you not want to replace windows and os-x with Linux? I Like it on my desktop. Linux and more users equals more developers equals better OS for me.
A computer is a tool, but I am not. I use Linux
Your recollection is wrong. Dell never sold a laptop with Linux. Microsoft, likely through an anticompetitive marketing contract, has prevented them from advertising Linux to consumers.
Note that in Europe, this behavior is not tolerated and is easier to prevent through court enforcement.
This represents the beginning of a sea change.
"You can't fucking rescind a contract and then sue upon it you fucking dipshit. It just doesn't work like that."
I actually know who you are crap for brains. Just as you know who is posting this. What saddens me is that medical science has kept vermin like you from dying young. Considering where you live and your lifestyle choices. I won't follow you around posting little bits of vile like you choose to, your real slashdot ID won't be bothered by snide little comemnts by a petty prick. Because the only one of us that is is you.
If the user ever has to remember or deal with RPMs directly, there will be pain and suffering! The whole RPM arcana has to be covered by a nice front end that offers tools, applications and servers. Not RPM packages.
RPMs and .debs are empowering to the savvy user who is already empowered. But they are not direct answers to the naive user's needs and desires. Hence, you need some abstraction layer on top of them, like "Install new software".
By default "Install new software" should just tell how much data must be downloaded and how much diskspace will be used when a program/tool/service is selected. As far as I know, some of the distros come close to this.
I repeat, Joe User won't remember to "install a few RPMs"! Those files have long, arcane names, and scary things called "dependancies". That stuff belong in command-line land, where the geeks and power users are. Tuck it away behind the "Advanced" button in the GUI, lest Joe User be confused.
It's getting tiresome.
Actually I'm correct. I remembered this way back then and I Googled it and found this article from Geek.com:
1 201003115.htm
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2000nov/gee2000
Here's a snippett from the 2000 article:
Dell has been offering Red Hat Linux preinstalled on some of its computers for a while, including the PowerEdge and PowerApp servers, Precision, OptiPlex, and Dimension desktops, and Latitude and Inspiron notebooks.
One part of his multipart answer was pulling out his Ferrari laptop running Solaris 10 and saying 80% (? - this is from memory) of the Solaris kernel engineers have Ferrari-model 64-bit laptops, running Solaris 10 of course.
The idea being: if it's your workday laptop, you support it.
I know the connection with Linux here is somewhat tenuous but having another good Unix on these laptops, especially an opensourced Unix, bodes well for future Linux laptop support.