Listen man, I was merely trying to weed out the opinions. And that's what I did. Lets see you do better.
Look, huge is "subjective". I know, I know, big words for an AC like you. Huge was an opinion. I was trying to point this out. Apparently it went right over your head.
That's not legally circumventing fucktard. That's using a privilege given to you by itunes.
Yeah, I helped him with a word, I didn't flame him about it, nor did I call him dumb, hell I didn't even bitch about it. Look below that, you'll see the comment.
The point wasn't to counter the parents use of the iRiver and Creative players, it was to say exactly what I did say: "Shop around".
Jesus fucking christ, I wasn't arguing against the guy, I was pointing out the obvious bias. Shit, I felt like someone turned it to fox news for a second.
For the people reading this, let me first point out the parents obvious bias. Such as, notice there are no ipod -s? How about napster +s? Nope, none. Anyway, let me help the browsers distinguish between opinions and facts:
+Huge install base Huge compared to what? My ass?
+Awesome selection of music - could be better, but it absolutely blows away anything shy of Amazon, and terrestrial stores can't hold a candle to it. Sounds like an opinion to me. Obviously, no store outside of those two will ever match his itune fantasy world.
+Widely considered the best portable player made Another opinion.
+DRM is fairly transparent and can easily be legally circumvented, and even more easily, well... *cough* Legally? Really? I doubt it. Besides, read a bit up about the guy who tried to get his songs from itunes after he lost them. They probably won't redownload your songs you've already paid for! In short, a "modified truth" if you will.
-Let's face it: iTMS is a fantastic idea, but about as much of a cludgy resource whore as a dolled-up media player can be It's kludge, or kluge: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kluge Nonetheless, I see another opinion poking through here.
Napster:
+Has the Napster name, which may mean something to someone that's been living in a cave for the past 4 years, but probably not Another opinion.
-Absolutely craptastic selection of music I doubt the parent has even looked at the selection. Surely he's not trying to decided which type of music you like for you?
-WMA files aren't any more widely supported by the portable market than AAC, who are they trying to kid? Sure, more player models support WMA, but take away the ones that aren't even remotely competetive with the iPod and the iPod mini, and all you're really left with is the iRiver HP-120 and the Creative Zen Micro. FUD. Opinion. Shop around, the Creative and iRiver can be good products.
-Their DRM scheme is geared more towards music rental than music purchase. He might be right on this one, depends on how long you're looking to keep your music.
So... what "advantages" are Napster touting, again? Well, if you got off your fantasy world and objectively considered things, you might find them. However, like most appleboys, there's no help for you, the disease has already metastasized.
I don't think that means the marketing strategy isn't working. It just means it wasn't as funny as what the the usatoday.com-voting, superbowl-watching people thought it should be..001% of the population may not have voted the advertisement the most popular, but with millions and millions of people watching, who's counting?
Possibly you can name a good 802.11g card with WEP support. I have a dell d800 laptop that came with an intel pro2100. At first, it really sucked because I had to do all kinds of strange stuff with ndiswrapper. After a time, intel released their own driver(been running with this for more than 6 months). Now, it's the most reliable wireless device I own. It supports all of the advanced card features, I can even run kismet on it. Anyway, there's one.
I assure you, after I've proffered the correct burnt offerings to appease the kernel gods Have you tried the gentoo forums? There are always people willing to help. Give me a jingle, send me a pim, the username is the same.
Indeed, it's just an opinion of mine. I almost didn't put that part in because A) It doesn't quite fit with the rest of the stuff I was saying. B) I can't actually prove it. It just _seems_ to me that most people who are blackhats *do* know a lot more than people who tend to babble about good security. I can't prove it, nor can I think of a better way to explain it, I'm just trying to state an opinion with the hope that someone understands it.
Most people that have been arguing against the class seem to take the side that the skills they acquire will corrupt the immature students and lead them to a life to spamming.
Yeah, this is what I'm against. This seems to be a kneejerk. What I'm trying to say is that a deep understanding of knowing how to exploit code, and where to look for these exploits will give the student a huge advantage when he/she writes that next big application. Of course, it could be said that he/she will use it maliciously, and it stands to reason. Thankfully, the malicious person's peers are probably writing the code in such a way that it will not be exploitable by someone who was taught the same knowledge. A malicous person with more knowledge might be able to crack something, but taking away a basic class in everyday spamming was probably not going to stop the cracker in the first place.
The other view, which you seem to hold, is that by writing malware or exploits, the blackhats have gained knowledge of a system that couldn't be acquired otherwise (except maybe this course)...
No, no, no, no, I'm sorry I implied this. I basically said the same above, but: Not offering the next cracker/blackhat/malicous student a class on the basics of his interest is _not_ going to stop him, but it may slow his progress.
And finally:
Either way, seems like we're skirting the issue, we all know that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
So far, everyone has posted on how this is such a bad idea and every graduate is going to turn into a spammer. People, there's a forest in these trees! Listen, if I'm a programmer, and I took my normal devry programming course, I have no idea what a syn flood is, nor have they taught me anything to do with the basics of a buffer overflow. Classes taught to exploit these types of vulnerabilites assure that every student *knows in his/her soul* how things can be exploited. They know exactly how a stack can be overwritten, exactly where to find the return address to overwrite. With this information, and this *big picture* understanding, it will make the better coders in the long run. Compare most blackhats with most whitehats. What do you seen? You see blackhats with crazy abilities to not only forsee vulnerabilites, but also an intimate understanding of how to exploit them. Most whitehats are just people who know enough not to use insecure commands.
Personally, I'm glad Mr. Venema knows more about average vulnerabilites than current Mr. Joe State University graduate, because he knows how things are exploited (Obviously. Look at TCT, Postfix, TCP Wrappers).
If the average developer *knew* something about programming, maybe we'd actually be better off.
But there's possible way the could predict how much the path of the object will be influenced by other large bodies, right? I'm just wondering. I mean, it's kinda like saying I can drive from here to downtown in 6 minutes, but then you forget it's lunchtime...
No, not 13000 remote offices, sorry for not being specific. 13000 people at maybe 700 or so remote offices. Of course, most of them were at 10 or so buildings.
They'll care when all of us little isps block mail from them because they are on an rbl. Some of the little ones might break and whitelist them, but I doubt very many will. And the users sending through these higher level isps will be getting the bounces, so a majority of the heat is going to be given to their tech support departments. Their tech support departments might at first suggest the customer contact the little ISP, but the shear number of people calling for techsupport combined with the shear number of possible little isps to contact will quickly prove to be futile, the big isps will have to give in. That's my initial thought, at least.
Yeah unless the customer is large. I tried this. I limited outbound emails to 1000 addresses at a time thinking that was very reasonable. Within a week there was a complaint from one of major companies that they couldn't send to all of thier remote offices. Sure enough, not only did they have more than 1000, they had 13,000. I realize this isn't an everyday occurance, but this situation should show that using a limit fix is not a good solution. Even doing a max-per-hour won't work. There are times when outbound email from a company can increase exponentially for legit reasons.
I recently got a letter in the mail from nielsons. They sent me a cash dollar and asked me to fill out the survey and mail it back to them. Of course, I kept track of the dollar but lost the survey...
No man, it wasn't at all that a person should save up 200k to afford a house. It was moreso along the lines of saving up for the payments. When I buy a 30,000 car, I can't afford it, but at least I know I can make 6-9 months of $350 payments should something go wrong. The same with a house, I'm guestimating that a payment for a 200k house at 30 years will be somewhere around $900 a month. Just make sure you have 5k in the bank after you've purchased it. If you don't, you are gambling. If the gamble doesn't pay off, you can't _honestly_ lay the blame (or bad luck, if you want to use that term) on anyone but yourself.
I've been _very_ close to the position of losing some stuff, but it was only because my savings were being depleted. I made it longer than I had planned for because I picked up a part time job that mitigated the losses.
I'll call it the plundering of middle-america so fatassed CEO's can light their cigars with hundred-dollar bills. I'm not going to challenge this, I believe you, and feel your pain.
As an aside: Although my political ideals currently align more libertarian, I abhor our current situation, and believe my ideals are due for a re-eval:)
I have empathy for these people, but man it sounds like you just have too much pity, maybe you're just jaded?
Losing your job is a fact of (American) life. It happens to almost everyone, maybe it's because someone in their family is sick and they need to move back home. Maybe it's because their spouse got a good job, and they had to move. Perhaps it's because they did a terrible job. It could even be because the company couldn't afford them.
If they are talented, they will get work again. If not, then maybe they don't belong in their current field?
You might ask, "Well if only the really good people get employed, then what are we to do?". There are thousands of thousands of average companies that hire average employees to do average jobs.
If their car got reposessed and their house foreclosed, whos fault is that? It behooves a person to ensure he/she can afford an item they own, be it a car, house, motorcycle or television. Some (most?) of us have learned that the hard way with credit card debt. Save up 6 months worth of the payments, then purchase the item. Live below your means, don't overbuy a house/car.
Too many of my friends are house-rich, but can't afford gas for their SUVs. Do I feel empathy? Yes. Do I feel pity? Hell no. They made the dang choice.
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I wasn't trying to point out napsters advantages. I was trying to strip away the bias.
Limp-dick apple baiting? If I wanted to do that, I'd post AC. Instead, I have the balls to point some shit out and put some karma on the line.
Listen man, I was merely trying to weed out the opinions. And that's what I did. Lets see you do better.
Look, huge is "subjective". I know, I know, big words for an AC like you. Huge was an opinion. I was trying to point this out. Apparently it went right over your head.
That's not legally circumventing fucktard. That's using a privilege given to you by itunes.
Yeah, I helped him with a word, I didn't flame him about it, nor did I call him dumb, hell I didn't even bitch about it. Look below that, you'll see the comment.
The point wasn't to counter the parents use of the iRiver and Creative players, it was to say exactly what I did say: "Shop around".
Jesus fucking christ, I wasn't arguing against the guy, I was pointing out the obvious bias. Shit, I felt like someone turned it to fox news for a second.
For the people reading this, let me first point out the parents obvious bias. Such as, notice there are no ipod -s? How about napster +s? Nope, none. Anyway, let me help the browsers distinguish between opinions and facts:
.
+Huge install base
Huge compared to what? My ass?
+Awesome selection of music - could be better, but it absolutely blows away anything shy of Amazon, and terrestrial stores can't hold a candle to it.
Sounds like an opinion to me. Obviously, no store outside of those two will ever match his itune fantasy world.
+Widely considered the best portable player made
Another opinion.
+DRM is fairly transparent and can easily be legally circumvented, and even more easily, well... *cough*
Legally? Really? I doubt it. Besides, read a bit up about the guy who tried to get his songs from itunes after he lost them. They probably won't redownload your songs you've already paid for! In short, a "modified truth" if you will.
-Let's face it: iTMS is a fantastic idea, but about as much of a cludgy resource whore as a dolled-up media player can be
It's kludge, or kluge:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kluge
Nonetheless, I see another opinion poking through here.
Napster:
+Has the Napster name, which may mean something to someone that's been living in a cave for the past 4 years, but probably not Another opinion.
-Absolutely craptastic selection of music
I doubt the parent has even looked at the selection. Surely he's not trying to decided which type of music you like for you?
-WMA files aren't any more widely supported by the portable market than AAC, who are they trying to kid? Sure, more player models support WMA, but take away the ones that aren't even remotely competetive with the iPod and the iPod mini, and all you're really left with is the iRiver HP-120 and the Creative Zen Micro. FUD. Opinion. Shop around, the Creative and iRiver can be good products.
-Their DRM scheme is geared more towards music rental than music purchase.
He might be right on this one, depends on how long you're looking to keep your music.
So... what "advantages" are Napster touting, again?
Well, if you got off your fantasy world and objectively considered things, you might find them. However, like most appleboys, there's no help for you, the disease has already metastasized
I don't think that means the marketing strategy isn't working. It just means it wasn't as funny as what the the usatoday.com-voting, superbowl-watching people thought it should be. .001% of the population may not have voted the advertisement the most popular, but with millions and millions of people watching, who's counting?
Next time you borrow a movie to your friend or girlfriend
It's loan. Not borrow. You cannot "borrow" things to people, but you can loan them. You can borrow things from people.
Possibly you can name a good 802.11g card with WEP support.
I have a dell d800 laptop that came with an intel pro2100. At first, it really sucked because I had to do all kinds of strange stuff with ndiswrapper. After a time, intel released their own driver(been running with this for more than 6 months). Now, it's the most reliable wireless device I own. It supports all of the advanced card features, I can even run kismet on it. Anyway, there's one.
I assure you, after I've proffered the correct burnt offerings to appease the kernel gods
Have you tried the gentoo forums? There are always people willing to help. Give me a jingle, send me a pim, the username is the same.
No, but is there a MST:3000 version of it?
Correlation does not prove causation...
Indeed, it's just an opinion of mine. I almost didn't put that part in because
A) It doesn't quite fit with the rest of the stuff I was saying.
B) I can't actually prove it.
It just _seems_ to me that most people who are blackhats *do* know a lot more than people who tend to babble about good security. I can't prove it, nor can I think of a better way to explain it, I'm just trying to state an opinion with the hope that someone understands it.
Most people that have been arguing against the class seem to take the side that the skills they acquire will corrupt the immature students and lead them to a life to spamming.
Yeah, this is what I'm against. This seems to be a kneejerk. What I'm trying to say is that a deep understanding of knowing how to exploit code, and where to look for these exploits will give the student a huge advantage when he/she writes that next big application. Of course, it could be said that he/she will use it maliciously, and it stands to reason. Thankfully, the malicious person's peers are probably writing the code in such a way that it will not be exploitable by someone who was taught the same knowledge. A malicous person with more knowledge might be able to crack something, but taking away a basic class in everyday spamming was probably not going to stop the cracker in the first place.
The other view, which you seem to hold, is that by writing malware or exploits, the blackhats have gained knowledge of a system that couldn't be acquired otherwise (except maybe this course)...
No, no, no, no, I'm sorry I implied this. I basically said the same above, but: Not offering the next cracker/blackhat/malicous student a class on the basics of his interest is _not_ going to stop him, but it may slow his progress.
And finally:
Either way, seems like we're skirting the issue, we all know that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
Good point!
So far, everyone has posted on how this is such a bad idea and every graduate is going to turn into a spammer.
People, there's a forest in these trees!
Listen, if I'm a programmer, and I took my normal devry programming course, I have no idea what a syn flood is, nor have they taught me anything to do with the basics of a buffer overflow.
Classes taught to exploit these types of vulnerabilites assure that every student *knows in his/her soul* how things can be exploited. They know exactly how a stack can be overwritten, exactly where to find the return address to overwrite. With this information, and this *big picture* understanding, it will make the better coders in the long run.
Compare most blackhats with most whitehats. What do you seen? You see blackhats with crazy abilities to not only forsee vulnerabilites, but also an intimate understanding of how to exploit them. Most whitehats are just people who know enough not to use insecure commands.
Personally, I'm glad Mr. Venema knows more about average vulnerabilites than current Mr. Joe State University graduate, because he knows how things are exploited (Obviously. Look at TCT, Postfix, TCP Wrappers).
If the average developer *knew* something about programming, maybe we'd actually be better off.
Oh great! Another java kludge!
But there's possible way the could predict how much the path of the object will be influenced by other large bodies, right? I'm just wondering.
I mean, it's kinda like saying I can drive from here to downtown in 6 minutes, but then you forget it's lunchtime...
Hmmm.
root # whois sky
No whois server is known for this kind of object.
Couldn't tell ya.
No, not 13000 remote offices, sorry for not being specific. 13000 people at maybe 700 or so remote offices. Of course, most of them were at 10 or so buildings.
They'll care when all of us little isps block mail from them because they are on an rbl.
Some of the little ones might break and whitelist them, but I doubt very many will.
And the users sending through these higher level isps will be getting the bounces, so a majority of the heat is going to be given to their tech support departments.
Their tech support departments might at first suggest the customer contact the little ISP, but the shear number of people calling for techsupport combined with the shear number of possible little isps to contact will quickly prove to be futile, the big isps will have to give in.
That's my initial thought, at least.
Yeah unless the customer is large.
I tried this. I limited outbound emails to 1000 addresses at a time thinking that was very reasonable. Within a week there was a complaint from one of major companies that they couldn't send to all of thier remote offices. Sure enough, not only did they have more than 1000, they had 13,000.
I realize this isn't an everyday occurance, but this situation should show that using a limit fix is not a good solution.
Even doing a max-per-hour won't work. There are times when outbound email from a company can increase exponentially for legit reasons.
Apple doesn't measure performance. They measure beauty and lack of seams. Performance and speed was an afterthought.
Good luck. You lose 30%+ of the value when you drive away.
I recently got a letter in the mail from nielsons. They sent me a cash dollar and asked me to fill out the survey and mail it back to them.
Of course, I kept track of the dollar but lost the survey...
Whoops, sorry man. I should have looked closer.
I revise to 6.4 mil.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6848748/
Actually, it's 9.6 million. With something like 1.3 million Live.
3 /d_vidgames23.art.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/2004112
Just something I saw a couple days ago.
LOL!
Is del even a linux command?
fim@localhost$ man del
No manual entry for del
???
No man, it wasn't at all that a person should save up 200k to afford a house. It was moreso along the lines of saving up for the payments. When I buy a 30,000 car, I can't afford it, but at least I know I can make 6-9 months of $350 payments should something go wrong.
The same with a house, I'm guestimating that a payment for a 200k house at 30 years will be somewhere around $900 a month. Just make sure you have 5k in the bank after you've purchased it. If you don't, you are gambling.
If the gamble doesn't pay off, you can't _honestly_ lay the blame (or bad luck, if you want to use that term) on anyone but yourself.
I've been _very_ close to the position of losing some stuff, but it was only because my savings were being depleted. I made it longer than I had planned for because I picked up a part time job that mitigated the losses.
I'll call it the plundering of middle-america so fatassed CEO's can light their cigars with hundred-dollar bills.
I'm not going to challenge this, I believe you, and feel your pain.
As an aside: Although my political ideals currently align more libertarian, I abhor our current situation, and believe my ideals are due for a re-eval:)
I'm sorry, I don't want to get in a pissin match.
Noone ever promised me that life would be fair, nor do I expect it to be.
I have empathy for these people, but man it sounds like you just have too much pity, maybe you're just jaded?
Losing your job is a fact of (American) life. It happens to almost everyone, maybe it's because someone in their family is sick and they need to move back home. Maybe it's because their spouse got a good job, and they had to move. Perhaps it's because they did a terrible job. It could even be because the company couldn't afford them.
If they are talented, they will get work again. If not, then maybe they don't belong in their current field?
You might ask, "Well if only the really good people get employed, then what are we to do?". There are thousands of thousands of average companies that hire average employees to do average jobs.
If their car got reposessed and their house foreclosed, whos fault is that? It behooves a person to ensure he/she can afford an item they own, be it a car, house, motorcycle or television. Some (most?) of us have learned that the hard way with credit card debt. Save up 6 months worth of the payments, then purchase the item. Live below your means, don't overbuy a house/car.
Too many of my friends are house-rich, but can't afford gas for their SUVs. Do I feel empathy? Yes. Do I feel pity? Hell no. They made the dang choice.
I see your point, but trust me man:
Golden Eye: Rouge agent was
just. plain. friggen. terrible.