I feel really sorry for you for assuming that everyone else in the world puts the same level of importance into music as you do.
I feel really sorry that you assume everyone has to have the same level of appreciation of music as you. I feel sorry for you that every piece of music you've purchased has been exposed to more scrutiny, quality assurance, and testing than the friggin' Space Shuttle.
Because this is america and I can buy whatever the hell I want!
Ok.. so I have crappy taste in music. What difference does that make? By all your arguments, I should only buy the best music ever made that is worthy of archiving and maintaining in my personal library for all of time? I don't want to! good or not.
Can't I still admire and respect music for what it is, but not listen to it anymore? What rule is there that I have to keep all my old favorite high school CDs around whether I liked them or not? I don't plan anytime in the next few years to fire up Pink Floyd and sit around with my buddies on Saturday night. And the time in 10 years when I do want to do that for nostalgia purposes, I probably won't find the CD anyway and won't really care. We'll all get on with our lives.
"don't know how people can spend so much money without physically receiving anything"
Really? Maybe some people don't really *want* to have a vault of pristine music.
I like music as much as the next guy, but what good is the lastest Jack Johnson CD going to do for me in 5 years?
I don't want to *rent* my music sure... but I don't need to fort knox it up either. As a side note, I cleaned out a storage room in my house and found tons of crappy CDs sitting around my house. I threw them all away.
I understand your argument though, not being at the whims of the man and all that....but 99 cents for track is more than enough for me to get my use out of a song for a "foreseable future." Most tracks I just listen to for a year or so before it's never listened to again. I don't care about the song, so why should I care about the medium? If there's something like a Pink Floyd album or something, i'll go out and buy it the way I want it....anyway, at the very least, iTunes keeps me from cleaning out closet.
They told *me* I had to mail the card to them so they could run it through their old school credit card swipe. then they'd mail it back. Also, I had to fly out to meet them so they could verify my identity.
Then, when my flight gets back home, I would receive a fexex package containing my credit card and...since this is an online transaction! they'll send me an email when everythign is all good....and by "e-mail" they really meant a telegram.
I anecdotally noticed that slashdot users, in a majority of threads that I've read, are often unaware they can resolve some of their problems via extensions....and wondered if they are unaware, what is the best means of finding information out for everyone else?
I never asked for them to change anything, or for all users to be aware of anything? For the love of pete!
me: Hey slashdot/firefox guy! I noticed a lot people aren't aware of good pizza places in their area. How do you all find out about the best places to go that would match their tastes? Seems like word of mouth is the best way.
You all: You're asking the impossible! Use the phone book! The pizza place he's going to make a good enough pizza! He can add whatever toppings he wants to his pizza! He can make his own if it's not the way he likes it!
So it's a matter of personal taste and philosophy, really.
Amen brother. I hear that. Opera provides more functionality that a lower percentage of users need....although, I don't understand why. The extra functionality *NEVER* gets in my way. I've never seen or used or been bothered or slowed down by the mail or irc client. (I use the mail client at home though)....as such, it's always seemed to me that it would appeal to the larger audience. Firefox is less feature packed than opera is out of the box, I would think more people would want bang for the buck (where buck is 'effort' or 'interesting in tweaking')
First of all, Firefox tells you about them at multiple points, including the screen displayed after your first run.
Good grief man. I'm talking about the *fringe case* like the OP at the top of this thread. Did I assume that this person doesn't know about extensions?
I know about extensions, search engines, and the mozilla addon website. So if I download Firefox, I should search all of these for everything i don't like about the browser if/until I find an extension that fixes it?
*I'm not knocking or complaining about anything* For the last time... I've noticed in many cases (most noticably on slashdot) seasoned firefox users who still are not knowledgable about certain extensions. I'm not saying that bad, or good, or anything.... I'm just asking how these users are supposed to "know what they don't know."
All these posts and I think I just mainly wanted to say...."Most of these fringe cases for extensions appear to be solved for users by "word of mouth"....that's odd."
*Preface: I assume there's people doing this (below) already, I just never see it done..*
I would guess there's little demand for sites like this is because they are not "activity centered" and are instead "person specific" lists.
The mozilla pages are the closest I've seen to listing extension by activity (categories), but the categories are too broad.
I think most people associate the activities based on the person... ala: If I'm a developer, I'm interested in what Blake Ross has for extensions. because they are likely the same types of activities you'd be doing.
Other than that, I've never understood why I would be interested in someone elses extensions. That's like saying "here's what in my wardrobe..." fine if you've got the same fashion sense. But instead, I think peoples extension lists should be something like:
If you're into bloggin/author, you might find this extensions helpful...
...and yes, I know you've been a member longer than I have......and besides, the question I asked had nothing to do with the default installation at all. I agree that it is a fine browser out of the box. I simply asked a question (that was in no way trollish, or fanboyish) about how users "find out" about these extensions.
If joe user never looks at slashdot or strolls through the list of extensions (or reads your website), how does he find out about extensions?
I just addressed the andectotal instances I've run across where even slashdot users are in the dark on the available extensions. Again- these are for the people who aren't happy with the default install.
Wow! People care about what extensions you use? You must be a God!
What makes you think I was bragging my slashdot usage? Where does "I've read for several years..." lead you to believe I think I possess devine powers? I'd like to present the "leaps to conclusion award" to you. You're also in the running for the "quoting out of context" award as well. The quote you pulled is clearly out of context of my original statements about how people complain about the browser lacking certain capabilities and the someone else has to point out that an extension exists to correct it. And how I don't think that's a good approach.
Where did I refer to the default installation at all?...but while we're at it, I'll bookmark this post for future use. It will contrast nicely with all the past posts I've seen throughout the years (okay okay.. I really *am* a slashdot God for being around so long) about how Opera is bloatware and "nobody wants all those features, let me install what i want..." -each Firefox release includes more and more right out of the box. It's no longer the "lean" bare-bones browser that branches off the Mozilla suite of applications.
The slashback against Opera has died down to a dull roar these days. Now it seems to just be the Open Source advocates that just take issue with it.
I wonder, how do all you find the extensions that work best for you?
Do you scroll through the list (of extensions) and just pick and choose based on what you think will work best for you?
Do you monitor some kind of RSS feed or forum for new extension releases? (if so, how would have a new user that's walking into the vast array of existing extensions to find what they might want?)
Or do you just post on slashdot that Firefox doesn't do 'X' and wait for someone to show you how to fix it?
In a nutshell, I love that Firefox can let me customize it exactly how i want it. But nobody but me knows exactly how I want it, so how do I go about doing that?
The OP and responses are exactly what I've been wondering about with FF.
*I reiterate that I like FF and I think people should use whatever tool works best for them.*
This seems to come up in just about *EVERY* Firefox thread. You get someone that posts..."Firefox is great, but only if it did X instead, I'd switch to it."
Then, some enterprising slashdotter will post "Try the 'X-enabler' extension..." followed by a greatful thanks from the OP....this has always got me to think about extensions, and frankly why I don't use Firefox. I think: "if someone inclined to read slashdot isn't savvy on all the extensions, what hope is there for the average (ie: not nerd) crowd?"
Me? I've read slashot for several years, used Firefox for several years off and on... but I just don't like the fact that I have to go in search of extensions.
I don't know, just some thoughts I've had. Good luck FF community with your release!
1)"You can't blame memory usage from extensions on Firefox. Those are *extensions* and not part of Firefox!"
-contrasting with-
2)"I wish would copy FF's feature!"...even though said feature is an extension....you take the good with the bad. In my mind, as an Opera user I'm balancing features with extendability. Opera has always had the key features and performance I've needed, -the cost of which is the ability to tweak via extensions exactly what I need.
But your statement does remind me of the good 'ol days of slashdot. Back in Aught-three when I started using Opera (thanks to a Slashdot article) I heard nothing but comments about Opera being bloatware and a "kitchen-sink" application. Firefox was the lean browser. It's a browser first, and you extend it. Democracy! But people are realizing now that more and more features are seeping into each iteration of firefox...and extensions are often the bloated, poorly coded memory hogs.
Well, I still like the idea of Firefox... customize what you'd like. But it's gotten to the point now that most of the stuff that I would have extended the older firefox versions with are now baked into the initial install.
maybe not, but I've had a custom mouse gesture in Opera that tiles my (MDI) windows for ages.
It's essentially the same thing.
Gesture one tiles all my windows (I used to also enable small screen rendering as well... but this is off currenty). (gesture up, gesture left)
Then I move my mouse over the window I want and make another gesture to restore all the windows again. This brings the window that the mouse cursor was over into focus at the forefront.
I believe netcaptor lays claim to "tabbed browsing" as FF uses it. Opera has always had a nice MDI implementation that I believe was adopted more in line with what we now call tabbed browsing.
Open Opera up and "restore" so it's floating in the window. You'll see the tab on the tab bar that isn't attached to the window anymore. This illustrates the two concepts the best. FF (if I recall) will not let you manipulate the size of tab in true MDI fashion like Opera will.
Why is firefox best for most people? Most people don't want to manage extensions or go in search of them. Most people just want a browser that is secure and a nice balance of features and performance right out of the box.
Firefox is best for most people who are tuners or nit-picky about what goes into their browser.
True... but denying scouts access to "the other side" of issue, or at least saying they are hindering independent thinking is just as bad.
A critical thinking should be able to make a forumalted decision based on as much information as possible? I think the best case scenario is a scout see his friends all downloading all kinds of movies, then goes to the movie studio and sees the other side... then goes back to his "thinking chair" and comes up with a conclusion that lands somewhere along the lines of what you're suggesting.
I think denying people access to information just because it doesn't agree with your point of view is just as "lobotomizing" and hindering of independent thinking.
I would think keeping kids from getting access to differing points of view and other opinions would be more in tune with the spirit of your argument. How can they think independent if they don't know what the other side's position is? A truely independent thinker would learn all they are told, then they would sit down and weigh that against what they already know or have learned about pirating.
How is that bad exactly? Giving people more information with which to base opinions on? So being an "independent thinker" in your mind is never learning anything that goes beyond your point of view?
I'm using the weekly build. So far, nobody has knocked on my door.
Works great- slashdot is trusted by geotrust evidently.
There's a checkbox to "enable fraud protection." When this button is disabled you can still manually check the site via the same interface, but the check isn't automatic.
Slashdot Mirror
I feel really sorry for you for assuming that everyone else in the world puts the same level of importance into music as you do.
I feel really sorry that you assume everyone has to have the same level of appreciation of music as you. I feel sorry for you that every piece of music you've purchased has been exposed to more scrutiny, quality assurance, and testing than the friggin' Space Shuttle.
Ok.. so I have crappy taste in music. What difference does that make? By all your arguments, I should only buy the best music ever made that is worthy of archiving and maintaining in my personal library for all of time? I don't want to! good or not.
Can't I still admire and respect music for what it is, but not listen to it anymore? What rule is there that I have to keep all my old favorite high school CDs around whether I liked them or not? I don't plan anytime in the next few years to fire up Pink Floyd and sit around with my buddies on Saturday night. And the time in 10 years when I do want to do that for nostalgia purposes, I probably won't find the CD anyway and won't really care. We'll all get on with our lives.
Based on your assumption of the importance of music as the fabric of our society, I'm surprised you didn't list "Wyld Stallions" in your list.
"don't know how people can spend so much money without physically receiving anything" Really? Maybe some people don't really *want* to have a vault of pristine music. I like music as much as the next guy, but what good is the lastest Jack Johnson CD going to do for me in 5 years? I don't want to *rent* my music sure... but I don't need to fort knox it up either. As a side note, I cleaned out a storage room in my house and found tons of crappy CDs sitting around my house. I threw them all away. I understand your argument though, not being at the whims of the man and all that....but 99 cents for track is more than enough for me to get my use out of a song for a "foreseable future." Most tracks I just listen to for a year or so before it's never listened to again. I don't care about the song, so why should I care about the medium? If there's something like a Pink Floyd album or something, i'll go out and buy it the way I want it. ...anyway, at the very least, iTunes keeps me from cleaning out closet.
You didn't through all the requirements then!
...and by "e-mail" they really meant a telegram.
They told *me* I had to mail the card to them so they could run it through their old school credit card swipe. then they'd mail it back. Also, I had to fly out to meet them so they could verify my identity.
Then, when my flight gets back home, I would receive a fexex package containing my credit card and...since this is an online transaction! they'll send me an email when everythign is all good.
I'm not *asking* for anything at all.
I anecdotally noticed that slashdot users, in a majority of threads that I've read, are often unaware they can resolve some of their problems via extensions....and wondered if they are unaware, what is the best means of finding information out for everyone else?
I never asked for them to change anything, or for all users to be aware of anything? For the love of pete!
me: Hey slashdot/firefox guy! I noticed a lot people aren't aware of good pizza places in their area. How do you all find out about the best places to go that would match their tastes? Seems like word of mouth is the best way.
You all: You're asking the impossible! Use the phone book! The pizza place he's going to make a good enough pizza! He can add whatever toppings he wants to his pizza! He can make his own if it's not the way he likes it!
me: geez... I'll just get chinese.
Amen brother. I hear that. Opera provides more functionality that a lower percentage of users need.
Clearly browser usage stats indicate otherwise though
Good grief man. I'm talking about the *fringe case* like the OP at the top of this thread. Did I assume that this person doesn't know about extensions?
I know about extensions, search engines, and the mozilla addon website. So if I download Firefox, I should search all of these for everything i don't like about the browser if/until I find an extension that fixes it?
*I'm not knocking or complaining about anything* For the last time... I've noticed in many cases (most noticably on slashdot) seasoned firefox users who still are not knowledgable about certain extensions. I'm not saying that bad, or good, or anything.... I'm just asking how these users are supposed to "know what they don't know."
All these posts and I think I just mainly wanted to say...."Most of these fringe cases for extensions appear to be solved for users by "word of mouth"....that's odd."
I guess forget everything else I said.
*Preface: I assume there's people doing this (below) already, I just never see it done..*
I would guess there's little demand for sites like this is because they are not "activity centered" and are instead "person specific" lists.
The mozilla pages are the closest I've seen to listing extension by activity (categories), but the categories are too broad.
I think most people associate the activities based on the person... ala: If I'm a developer, I'm interested in what Blake Ross has for extensions. because they are likely the same types of activities you'd be doing.
Other than that, I've never understood why I would be interested in someone elses extensions. That's like saying "here's what in my wardrobe..." fine if you've got the same fashion sense. But instead, I think peoples extension lists should be something like:
If you're into bloggin/author, you might find this extensions helpful...
Web developer....
Social networking a
instead of just saying "here's what I use!..."
Just some thoughts.
...and yes, I know you've been a member longer than I have. .....and besides, the question I asked had nothing to do with the default installation at all. I agree that it is a fine browser out of the box. I simply asked a question (that was in no way trollish, or fanboyish) about how users "find out" about these extensions.
If joe user never looks at slashdot or strolls through the list of extensions (or reads your website), how does he find out about extensions?
I just addressed the andectotal instances I've run across where even slashdot users are in the dark on the available extensions. Again- these are for the people who aren't happy with the default install.
Wow! People care about what extensions you use? You must be a God!
...but while we're at it, I'll bookmark this post for future use. It will contrast nicely with all the past posts I've seen throughout the years (okay okay.. I really *am* a slashdot God for being around so long) about how Opera is bloatware and "nobody wants all those features, let me install what i want..." -each Firefox release includes more and more right out of the box. It's no longer the "lean" bare-bones browser that branches off the Mozilla suite of applications.
What makes you think I was bragging my slashdot usage? Where does "I've read for several years..." lead you to believe I think I possess devine powers? I'd like to present the "leaps to conclusion award" to you. You're also in the running for the "quoting out of context" award as well. The quote you pulled is clearly out of context of my original statements about how people complain about the browser lacking certain capabilities and the someone else has to point out that an extension exists to correct it. And how I don't think that's a good approach.
Where did I refer to the default installation at all?
The slashback against Opera has died down to a dull roar these days. Now it seems to just be the Open Source advocates that just take issue with it.
I guess as a follow up to my own thoughts here...
I wonder, how do all you find the extensions that work best for you?
Do you scroll through the list (of extensions) and just pick and choose based on what you think will work best for you?
Do you monitor some kind of RSS feed or forum for new extension releases? (if so, how would have a new user that's walking into the vast array of existing extensions to find what they might want?)
Or do you just post on slashdot that Firefox doesn't do 'X' and wait for someone to show you how to fix it?
In a nutshell, I love that Firefox can let me customize it exactly how i want it. But nobody but me knows exactly how I want it, so how do I go about doing that?
The OP and responses are exactly what I've been wondering about with FF.
...this has always got me to think about extensions, and frankly why I don't use Firefox. I think: "if someone inclined to read slashdot isn't savvy on all the extensions, what hope is there for the average (ie: not nerd) crowd?"
*I reiterate that I like FF and I think people should use whatever tool works best for them.*
This seems to come up in just about *EVERY* Firefox thread. You get someone that posts..."Firefox is great, but only if it did X instead, I'd switch to it."
Then, some enterprising slashdotter will post "Try the 'X-enabler' extension..." followed by a greatful thanks from the OP.
Me? I've read slashot for several years, used Firefox for several years off and on... but I just don't like the fact that I have to go in search of extensions.
I don't know, just some thoughts I've had. Good luck FF community with your release!
Right.. (well more or less)
...even though said feature is an extension. ...you take the good with the bad. In my mind, as an Opera user I'm balancing features with extendability. Opera has always had the key features and performance I've needed, -the cost of which is the ability to tweak via extensions exactly what I need.
I get frustrated when I see:
1)"You can't blame memory usage from extensions on Firefox. Those are *extensions* and not part of Firefox!"
-contrasting with-
2)"I wish would copy FF's feature!"
I suppose. I use it exclusively for tiling my tabs in a poor man's "exposé" way.
There are a few other uses. To each his own.
But why does that make it better then?
But your statement does remind me of the good 'ol days of slashdot. Back in Aught-three when I started using Opera (thanks to a Slashdot article) I heard nothing but comments about Opera being bloatware and a "kitchen-sink" application. Firefox was the lean browser. It's a browser first, and you extend it. Democracy! But people are realizing now that more and more features are seeping into each iteration of firefox...and extensions are often the bloated, poorly coded memory hogs.
Well, I still like the idea of Firefox... customize what you'd like. But it's gotten to the point now that most of the stuff that I would have extended the older firefox versions with are now baked into the initial install.
maybe not, but I've had a custom mouse gesture in Opera that tiles my (MDI) windows for ages.
It's essentially the same thing.
Gesture one tiles all my windows (I used to also enable small screen rendering as well... but this is off currenty). (gesture up, gesture left)
Then I move my mouse over the window I want and make another gesture to restore all the windows again. This brings the window that the mouse cursor was over into focus at the forefront.
I've always thought this was a slick use of MDI
I believe netcaptor lays claim to "tabbed browsing" as FF uses it. Opera has always had a nice MDI implementation that I believe was adopted more in line with what we now call tabbed browsing.
Open Opera up and "restore" so it's floating in the window. You'll see the tab on the tab bar that isn't attached to the window anymore. This illustrates the two concepts the best. FF (if I recall) will not let you manipulate the size of tab in true MDI fashion like Opera will.
Why is firefox best for most people? Most people don't want to manage extensions or go in search of them. Most people just want a browser that is secure and a nice balance of features and performance right out of the box. Firefox is best for most people who are tuners or nit-picky about what goes into their browser.
Opera can block ads just fine. May not have all the bells & whistles, but I get along just fine with the content blocker that's built in.
You sound just as stupid as the "Jesus Camp" people.
True... but denying scouts access to "the other side" of issue, or at least saying they are hindering independent thinking is just as bad.
A critical thinking should be able to make a forumalted decision based on as much information as possible? I think the best case scenario is a scout see his friends all downloading all kinds of movies, then goes to the movie studio and sees the other side... then goes back to his "thinking chair" and comes up with a conclusion that lands somewhere along the lines of what you're suggesting.
I think denying people access to information just because it doesn't agree with your point of view is just as "lobotomizing" and hindering of independent thinking.
I would think keeping kids from getting access to differing points of view and other opinions would be more in tune with the spirit of your argument. How can they think independent if they don't know what the other side's position is? A truely independent thinker would learn all they are told, then they would sit down and weigh that against what they already know or have learned about pirating. How is that bad exactly? Giving people more information with which to base opinions on? So being an "independent thinker" in your mind is never learning anything that goes beyond your point of view?
I'm using the weekly build. So far, nobody has knocked on my door.
Works great- slashdot is trusted by geotrust evidently.
There's a checkbox to "enable fraud protection." When this button is disabled you can still manually check the site via the same interface, but the check isn't automatic.
Interesting points.
To answer your first one, again, GeoTrust is source. Opera isn't directly accumulating the blacklist. Geotrust is.