And thank you for your response. I think Halo is fun, too, but when people say "the best game ever", I also kind of have to scratch my head.
My initial response was predicated on the idea that you found no value in Halo because it was not innovative. Your response has cleared up that misconception, so I realize that we basically agree.
You would sound less trollish if you actually read my whole post. As I said at the end: if you played on PC, it probably wasn't fun (the PC port wasn't very well done, apparently), and if you played single-player, it probably wasn't fun. Where it shone was on MP on XBox. So you don't have to beg to differ, as we agree.
Agreed. My post was merely in response to the previous poster, who found no value in Halo merely because it was unoriginal. I just wanted to point out that people may enjoy a product not for its originality, but for its fun factor. Now, making a succesful product? That involves more than just fun, as you point out.
No, you aren't the only one on the planet. However, a lot of people like it too.
It's like chocolate cake. Chocolate cake has been done to death. Everyone's eaten it before; every variation has been done. That doesn't keep good chocolate cake from tasting good (use some other food example if you hate chocolate cake). Sure, chefs are experimenting with new non-chocolate cakes, and making almond crumble chiffon turnovers and other brand-new pastries, but that doesn't mean that chocolate cake isn't still good. Halo isn't popular because it is original, or innovative, or all of the other catchwords that get bandied around. It has a lot of fans because...it's fun! It may not be your cup of tea, but like it or not, it's popular because people enjoy playing it.
People need to move away, not only from the idea that "Good Graphics = Good Game", but that "Innovation = Good Game", or "Realism = Good Game", or "Good Storyline = Good Game", and remember that the key is "Fun = Good Game". If good graphics, story, ideas, originality, etc. help make a game fun, then that's an added bonus, but even a game with trite, rehashed ideas, bad graphics, and a laughable story is awesome if it's fun.
And if you haven't played Halo multiplayer, or you've only played on PC, you missed all the fun bits, so I wouldn't be surprised if you find it un-fun as well. The XBox multiplayer part is where it really shined.
700 MB per CD...45 GB of music...Let's see, would I rather have my entire music collection fit in my pocket, or get a cheap, just slightly bulkier player and carry around and swap out 65 CDs whenever I go to the supermarket? Hmm...
Different folks have different needs. An mp3 player might seem a waste to you; burning 65 CDs and carrying them around with me just so I can listen to whatever suddenly strikes my fancy seems like a waste to me.
I'm with you. I'm a (very) amateur PCDJ (Traktor), with about 7000 songs, and I'd prefer to be able to listen to whatever I want whenever I want. However, fiddling around with different mp3 players, the iPod is the only one that has the ease of use I need to work with that many tracks...So here I am holding my breath turning blue waiting for the 60 Gb iPod.
Mazu, dare mo nihonjin no eigo o baka ni shitenai jan. Omae koso zenzen rinkusaki mitenai dake ja nai no?
Ttaku, dakara surashudotto wa aori bakkari to iwareteru jan. RTFA, kono ahome!
THe original Bemani series also allowed embellishments (you didn't get extra points, but you didn't lose them either, and your songs sounded much better). I think they were gotten rid of around Bemani 3rd mix.
Yeah, upon further reflection, even if I could parallel park well, there's no way I'd drive here. The only driving situation that wouldn't drive me insane would be to take a train out into the country and rent a car to drive through the wilderness.
Speaking of which, Hokkaido has a huge number of road fatalities because people aren't used to driving fast on open roads, and bite off more than they can chew.
Everybody parks in reverse in Japan. I suppose that that's the way they're taught to do it in driving school, but you see people park in reverse in even the largest parking lots here.
As for the parallel parking assistance, if I had that, I might actually be tempted to get a driver's license here in Japan. You have no idea how severe parking can be (especially if you're reading Slashdot from the states)
Check out the videos of Big Rigs. That's some quality badness. It makes a great demo for a computer store window, but as a game? Well, it just plain isn't one.
You're thinking "open" as in computers. They're talking "open" as in music equipment platforms. Most music equipment uses huge amounts of completely proprietary systems. Their reference to "open" means that you can buy off-the-shelf products that have no ties to the company that makes the keyboard. If you want to install Fruity Loops, Reaktor, Acid, Reason, Traktor, Logic, etc. you can. This is very VERY open when it comes to music equipment.
And, yes, "open" has a lot of meanings. Open source, open store, open marriage, open secret. To speak of which, do they even mention "open source", or is it just a slashdot thing where readers see "open source" whenever they see the word "open"?
"I found it difficult to call Halo "Combat Evolved""
Hehe, me too. Luckily, they dropped that part of the name for the Japanese market, so here it was just "Halo".
"Since I disagree with some of it (I found the controls awkward) and wasn't exposed to other portions (multiplayer), it's pretty clear why I wouldn't think it a 90-100% game."
Pardon my English, but "aw, hell yeah". If I hadn't played any multiplayer on it I probably would've hated it. It had some nice parts, but once the Flood appears it's just a horrible grindfest.
"Yeah, I feel that looking + rotating via stick is too slow to be useful"
This one's just a matter of personal taste, but I actually prefer the Halo approach to the impossible speed of other FPSs. Really good, fast players on other FPSs may have avatars that look like people, but their movements are insane. That may be your deal (after all, I prefer crazy snowboard games like SSX to realistic ones like Amped, so I know the feeling). If so, Halo is too slow, but keep in mind it's a stylistic difference, perhaps caused by the console, but not a flaw per se. For some players (don't know if it's a few or a lot) it may be seen as an advantage.
"Sounds like what I really missed was the MP"
Probably. Multiplayer on one TV screen is pretty boring (you can see your enemy position, see folks in hiding, etc.), but on multiple TV screens it's wonderful. I used to go with my friends to an internet cafe near my house that had 8 TVs and 8 XBoxes wired together, and we'd play teams against eachother. Admittedly, in that kind of situation, pretty much any game is fun, but Halo's polish in control and functionality (and good, steady frame rate) really shone out.
"does it support Live?"
No, and that's one of the big sticklers. It came out long before Live was even announced, and they decided not to release a Live version, but to go straight to Live support on Halo 2. In case you're wondering why people make such a big deal about Halo 2, that's your answer. Some folks have made tunneling software that allows you to play Halo (1) over the internet, but from what I understand it's pretty laggy, as the product was never intended for that kind of use.
I can only speak about Japan, as I don't know much about the surrounding areas, but Japan is definitely changing, though it doesn't have much to do directly with technology. The youth in Japan today have very little in common with the youth of yesteryear, and I wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years people have an entirely different idea of what people here are like. The abandonment of the lifetime employment system has resulted in (on the good side) a lot more risk-taking and a lot more movement by younger Japanese and (on the bad side) a lot less company loyalty and a lowering of work standards.
First, you probably misspoke, but it was evolutionary; it just wasn't revolutionary. It took things that already existed, and refined them. The graphics were nice (*from a PC gamer with a medium priced rig POV on the XBox version), though I'm sure better graphics could be found if you spend the price of an XBox on a graphics card alone. The controls worked well. The game flowed well. The multiplayer worked well. It was a lot of fun. It didn't reinvent the wheel, but it made an excellent wheel nonetheless.
I suspect that this isn't what you want to hear, and that you'd rather I say "Yeah, what's up with that?! Halo sucked!", but those are the answers I generally hear from people who like Halo to your questions.
I personally found the controls very exact, though I understand people used to WASD and mice might not be very good outside of their element. I found the corridor repetition to be insanely annoying, though. All in all, I found Halo to be a mediocre 1 player game, and an insanely good multiplayer game.
Slashdot Mirror
And thank you for your response. I think Halo is fun, too, but when people say "the best game ever", I also kind of have to scratch my head.
My initial response was predicated on the idea that you found no value in Halo because it was not innovative. Your response has cleared up that misconception, so I realize that we basically agree.
You would sound less trollish if you actually read my whole post. As I said at the end: if you played on PC, it probably wasn't fun (the PC port wasn't very well done, apparently), and if you played single-player, it probably wasn't fun. Where it shone was on MP on XBox. So you don't have to beg to differ, as we agree.
Agreed. My post was merely in response to the previous poster, who found no value in Halo merely because it was unoriginal. I just wanted to point out that people may enjoy a product not for its originality, but for its fun factor. Now, making a succesful product? That involves more than just fun, as you point out.
No, you aren't the only one on the planet. However, a lot of people like it too.
It's like chocolate cake. Chocolate cake has been done to death. Everyone's eaten it before; every variation has been done. That doesn't keep good chocolate cake from tasting good (use some other food example if you hate chocolate cake). Sure, chefs are experimenting with new non-chocolate cakes, and making almond crumble chiffon turnovers and other brand-new pastries, but that doesn't mean that chocolate cake isn't still good. Halo isn't popular because it is original, or innovative, or all of the other catchwords that get bandied around. It has a lot of fans because...it's fun! It may not be your cup of tea, but like it or not, it's popular because people enjoy playing it.
People need to move away, not only from the idea that "Good Graphics = Good Game", but that "Innovation = Good Game", or "Realism = Good Game", or "Good Storyline = Good Game", and remember that the key is "Fun = Good Game". If good graphics, story, ideas, originality, etc. help make a game fun, then that's an added bonus, but even a game with trite, rehashed ideas, bad graphics, and a laughable story is awesome if it's fun.
And if you haven't played Halo multiplayer, or you've only played on PC, you missed all the fun bits, so I wouldn't be surprised if you find it un-fun as well. The XBox multiplayer part is where it really shined.
You need to rip your Napalm Deatch collection at lower sampling rates then ^_^
700 MB per CD...45 GB of music...Let's see, would I rather have my entire music collection fit in my pocket, or get a cheap, just slightly bulkier player and carry around and swap out 65 CDs whenever I go to the supermarket? Hmm...
Different folks have different needs. An mp3 player might seem a waste to you; burning 65 CDs and carrying them around with me just so I can listen to whatever suddenly strikes my fancy seems like a waste to me.
I'm with you. I'm a (very) amateur PCDJ (Traktor), with about 7000 songs, and I'd prefer to be able to listen to whatever I want whenever I want. However, fiddling around with different mp3 players, the iPod is the only one that has the ease of use I need to work with that many tracks...So here I am holding my breath turning blue waiting for the 60 Gb iPod.
Mazu, dare mo nihonjin no eigo o baka ni shitenai jan. Omae koso zenzen rinkusaki mitenai dake ja nai no? Ttaku, dakara surashudotto wa aori bakkari to iwareteru jan. RTFA, kono ahome!
Mike Bison, no less.
No, but loaning them money is a lot like loaning them something.
Perhaps a better turn of phrase is "RIAA members are like loan sharks".
THe original Bemani series also allowed embellishments (you didn't get extra points, but you didn't lose them either, and your songs sounded much better). I think they were gotten rid of around Bemani 3rd mix.
Yeah, upon further reflection, even if I could parallel park well, there's no way I'd drive here. The only driving situation that wouldn't drive me insane would be to take a train out into the country and rent a car to drive through the wilderness.
Speaking of which, Hokkaido has a huge number of road fatalities because people aren't used to driving fast on open roads, and bite off more than they can chew.
I think I know an answer for Goya. Are they the ones who make all the canned beans? I associate large Mexican women with them. Am I right?
(No, I'm not trying to make a joke, I'm very curious if I got the right Goya)
Everybody parks in reverse in Japan. I suppose that that's the way they're taught to do it in driving school, but you see people park in reverse in even the largest parking lots here.
As for the parallel parking assistance, if I had that, I might actually be tempted to get a driver's license here in Japan. You have no idea how severe parking can be (especially if you're reading Slashdot from the states)
Check out the videos of Big Rigs. That's some quality badness. It makes a great demo for a computer store window, but as a game? Well, it just plain isn't one.
"So you're saying that it's "open" to interpretation?"
No, Femto is...
You're thinking "open" as in computers. They're talking "open" as in music equipment platforms. Most music equipment uses huge amounts of completely proprietary systems. Their reference to "open" means that you can buy off-the-shelf products that have no ties to the company that makes the keyboard. If you want to install Fruity Loops, Reaktor, Acid, Reason, Traktor, Logic, etc. you can. This is very VERY open when it comes to music equipment.
And, yes, "open" has a lot of meanings. Open source, open store, open marriage, open secret. To speak of which, do they even mention "open source", or is it just a slashdot thing where readers see "open source" whenever they see the word "open"?
Anyone who doesn't find the girls in those images to look "dumpy" needs to move out of a country with obesity problems.
Thanks. Wiki has been corrected. Oddly, someone noticed in 2002, but no-one corrected the page.
Time for me to be pedantic: romaji, not romanji. But good post.
Reading comprehension is your friend.
You can make your backup whenever you want. You can only use your backup if the game has been destroyed.
Try a MMORPG. Far, FAR, FAR worse than you can imagine Windows ever to be.
"I found it difficult to call Halo "Combat Evolved""
Hehe, me too. Luckily, they dropped that part of the name for the Japanese market, so here it was just "Halo".
"Since I disagree with some of it (I found the controls awkward) and wasn't exposed to other portions (multiplayer), it's pretty clear why I wouldn't think it a 90-100% game."
Pardon my English, but "aw, hell yeah". If I hadn't played any multiplayer on it I probably would've hated it. It had some nice parts, but once the Flood appears it's just a horrible grindfest.
"Yeah, I feel that looking + rotating via stick is too slow to be useful"
This one's just a matter of personal taste, but I actually prefer the Halo approach to the impossible speed of other FPSs. Really good, fast players on other FPSs may have avatars that look like people, but their movements are insane. That may be your deal (after all, I prefer crazy snowboard games like SSX to realistic ones like Amped, so I know the feeling). If so, Halo is too slow, but keep in mind it's a stylistic difference, perhaps caused by the console, but not a flaw per se. For some players (don't know if it's a few or a lot) it may be seen as an advantage.
"Sounds like what I really missed was the MP"
Probably. Multiplayer on one TV screen is pretty boring (you can see your enemy position, see folks in hiding, etc.), but on multiple TV screens it's wonderful. I used to go with my friends to an internet cafe near my house that had 8 TVs and 8 XBoxes wired together, and we'd play teams against eachother. Admittedly, in that kind of situation, pretty much any game is fun, but Halo's polish in control and functionality (and good, steady frame rate) really shone out.
"does it support Live?"
No, and that's one of the big sticklers. It came out long before Live was even announced, and they decided not to release a Live version, but to go straight to Live support on Halo 2. In case you're wondering why people make such a big deal about Halo 2, that's your answer. Some folks have made tunneling software that allows you to play Halo (1) over the internet, but from what I understand it's pretty laggy, as the product was never intended for that kind of use.
I can only speak about Japan, as I don't know much about the surrounding areas, but Japan is definitely changing, though it doesn't have much to do directly with technology. The youth in Japan today have very little in common with the youth of yesteryear, and I wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years people have an entirely different idea of what people here are like. The abandonment of the lifetime employment system has resulted in (on the good side) a lot more risk-taking and a lot more movement by younger Japanese and (on the bad side) a lot less company loyalty and a lowering of work standards.
First, you probably misspoke, but it was evolutionary; it just wasn't revolutionary. It took things that already existed, and refined them. The graphics were nice (*from a PC gamer with a medium priced rig POV on the XBox version), though I'm sure better graphics could be found if you spend the price of an XBox on a graphics card alone. The controls worked well. The game flowed well. The multiplayer worked well. It was a lot of fun. It didn't reinvent the wheel, but it made an excellent wheel nonetheless.
I suspect that this isn't what you want to hear, and that you'd rather I say "Yeah, what's up with that?! Halo sucked!", but those are the answers I generally hear from people who like Halo to your questions.
I personally found the controls very exact, though I understand people used to WASD and mice might not be very good outside of their element. I found the corridor repetition to be insanely annoying, though. All in all, I found Halo to be a mediocre 1 player game, and an insanely good multiplayer game.