Yes, I consider the total size of the codebase to be patched a consideration. yes, microsoft code is likely bloated and inefficient But the featureset, and functionality- is a order of magnitude or more complex than "SENDMAIL"
the simple fact (I see) is that -a patch for a microsoft OS, with all the variables it can affect- is a much greater undertaking- with greater needs for getting it right the first time- than for most any other software available..
the average XP user downloads cygwin, ming, lcc-win32 or others for development, OpenOffice for a suite, firefox/mozilla for browsing, etc...
I cry utter bullshit on each element, and ask you to give a cite for a single one. 1-average xp user downloads cygwin 2-average xp user downloads lcc-win32 3-average xp user downloads/uses open office 4-average xp user uses firefox/mozilla
2nd, the price of XPhome+office student&teacher edition is about 325$ retail.
the AVERAGE XP user wants a free media player, and all the other XP goodies, and doesn't give a shit about superior alternatives for most of it... they want easy.
now, your personal experience (and mine) is not the same- but it's also ABOVE average- FAR ABOVE average- than the average xp user.
the windows installer for apache is 4.2 mb I can't actually determine it's size- the download for sendmail is 1.89 MB postgres is 22mb these are single purpose- using system calls- apps.. they aren't OS's (except for linux) and do any of those come close to 1.5 gigabytes of code/apps/parts?
re read my list of challenge requirements for #1.. what OSP is on par for raw bytes & complexity... to the windows OS?
I can't vett "linux" as there is no "one linux" to compare against.- and none of them come 'core' with as many features INCLUDED in the os as microsoft- the same functionality is available I grant you- but not 'stock model'- as add-ons you can add as you determine your need.
this means however that a windows patch has to play niceley with all the other 'stock model' features.. which is my point- there is nothing more complex- serving more people- that makes it so unreasonable that a testing cycle is required to make sure that it won't break compatibility with some bizzare element 4 OS bits removed (but part of windows) over from the site of the problem.
I don't know where the 400 million source is, but- that's couldn't cover more than a month or two over a single year so- in two years, 800,000 per person caught. see below, FY 05 budget for US-Visit was 340million (for one year) which is 10mill more than the prior year
US-VISIT Budget Requests In FY 2003, CBP processed 412.8 million passengers and pedestrians arriving in the U.S. - 327 million at land borders, 70.8 million at international airports, and 15 million at sea ports. The FY 2005 budget seeks $2.7 billion for border security inspections and trade facilitation at ports of entry and $1.8 billion for border security and control between ports of entry. This includes $10 million for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles testing and $64 million for border enforcement technology, such as sensors and cameras. The FY'05 budget provides $340 million for US-VISIT, an increase of $10 million over the FY 2004 funding. Only one month old, US-VISIT has successfully and efficiently recorded the entry of 1,114,119 passengers and the exit of 3,067 travelers without causing delays at ports of entry or hindering
Like- what? that has to be compatible with every pc configuration, with every software configuration, quite literally, known to man.
1st, what OSP is on par for raw bytes & complexity... to the windows OS? 2nd- which of that subset get's patches in 24 hours 3rd- how often do these "right out the door" patches cause loss of functionality, for a subset of users, as (my line one above) every system configuration possibility was considered in the patch, that is still just works?
imagine playing scrabble, and you set a prism (with one side-facing others-being one way glass) set over 'your' letters you could see them in the mirror image on the side of the prism facing you- the other players could not.
three years ago, our facility ran a system critical app on linux, that all the desktop pc's connected to under kermit. my pc was connected to the 'intarnet' and my boss was flat out convinced something from the internet would get on my pc, and infect the linux server through the kermit session.. I spent far too much time and energy explaining at great length how very impossible this was.
Tracing route to slashdot.org [66.35.250.150] over a maximum of 30 hops: **CUT SOME**
5 56 ms 52 ms 62 ms te-2-1-ar01.absecon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.210.126]
6 59 ms 69 ms 64 ms po10-ar01.audubon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.2 08.22]
7 58 ms 55 ms 52 ms 68.86.211.10
8 56 ms 69 ms 58 ms 12.118.114.17
9 62 ms 57 ms 60 ms tbr1-p012301.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.62]
10 68 ms 59 ms 59 ms tbr1-cl8.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.2.17]
11 65 ms 57 ms 62 ms ar5-a300s5.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.0.89]
See lines 9, 10, 11? see the part at the end? att.net? guess what that means?
Consider this. To use NTP, they have to use it to spec.
open specifications are still the property of the creators. (kinda like the GPL) they are licensed to 'the world' to use, so long as the specification is followed. the spec in this case, includes disallowing certain services to certain levels of useage
So, the creators of NTP spec can (in an extreme beyond all belief example) deny d-link further permission to use NTP at all.
Further, if they are not following the spec (honoring requests by the NTP server not to be used in this manner) you could as the owner of one of the devices(one again, extreme example) sue d-link for advertising/listing on the box of the products in question, for saying they are ntp capable- when it's proven they are not compatible with the spec. (the spec that includes respecting requests not to be used in this manner) what are your damages? at least the cost of the affected hardware.
Service Area: Networks BGP-announced on the DIX Access Policy: open access to servers, please, no client use "Since D-Link does not comply with these restrictions, D-Link has no legitimate access to the server, and it follows trivially that D-Link should have asked for my permission before including it in the list embedded in their products firmware. "
yea, but if the alternative routing is at least 50 miles away, it won't recalculate for a long time, it'll just suggest u-turns- and the best possible 'recalculate' may not be obvious- which way to go?
As I originally stated, it's a third party claim, repeated by me. I've been explicit on this in my second response. although it's repeating an unciteable information source,
and it's also not what I consider the most relevant, but rather the generality that
"dumb kids do in fact exist" you may find that sad, but can we agree it's a fact?
I have not looked into it myself, and wasn't tossing it out for that to be the most relevent portion. the most relevant to the discussion idea was, some kids are dumb? it's a fact yes or no?
p.s. however, I ask you to consider, what would the affect on highschool average test scores be if you dropped the lowest six percent at age 14?
I know more than a few teachers who are angered by the unfunded mandate "no child left behind" the arguments appear to boil down to 1- there are some kids that should be left behind, there are some that are just dumb-some that should dig ditches.
2-other countries (esp the ones that always show the highest test scores) let kids out of school as early as age 10 if they aren't suited to education, and that would mean the remaining students will test higher on average
3-it's unfunded, yet for education systems to get the same amount of money as before the program, they have to spend a lot of time just getting kids to pass the 'left behind' tests that the schools are graded on.
Not saying that's right or wrong, but #1 makes sense, if there is a range of aptitude in homo sap, some will suck at intelli'j'ence.
There is no way to copy the location of a file to the clipboard
not correct.. right click the file, select properties. move the mouse to the leftmost part, hold down the left click botton, move the mouse to the end, even if the path exceeds the display, you can select the entire name with path,
it's now selected (windows default, blue background, white text) hit ctrl+c it's now on clipboard...
http://www.directcreative.com/aaexperiments.html Wrapped brick. Wrapped in brown paper; posted in street corner box with same amount of postage as was strapped to unwrapped brick. Extreme weight for size made package seem suspicious. Notice of attempted delivery received, 16 days. Upon pickup at station, our mailing specialist received a plastic bag containing broken and pulverized remnants of brick. Inside was a small piece of paper with a number code on it. Our research indicates that this was some type of US Drug Enforcement Agency release slip. The clerk made our mailing specialist sign a form for receipt.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, I consider the total size of the codebase to be patched a consideration.
yes, microsoft code is likely bloated and inefficient
But the featureset, and functionality- is a order of magnitude or more complex than "SENDMAIL"
the simple fact (I see) is that -a patch for a microsoft OS, with all the variables it can affect- is a much greater undertaking- with
greater needs for getting it right the first time- than for most any other software available..
the average XP user downloads cygwin, ming, lcc-win32 or others for development, OpenOffice for a suite, firefox/mozilla for browsing, etc...
I cry utter bullshit on each element, and ask you to give a cite for a single one.
1-average xp user downloads cygwin
2-average xp user downloads lcc-win32
3-average xp user downloads/uses open office
4-average xp user uses firefox/mozilla
2nd, the price of XPhome+office student&teacher edition is about 325$ retail.
the AVERAGE XP user wants a free media player, and all the other XP goodies,
and doesn't give a shit about superior alternatives for most of it... they want easy.
now, your personal experience (and mine) is not the same- but it's also ABOVE average- FAR ABOVE average- than the average xp user.
and- selling to the average man- IS what sells.
the windows installer for apache is 4.2 mb I can't actually determine it's size-
the download for sendmail is 1.89 MB
postgres is 22mb
these are single purpose- using system calls- apps..
they aren't OS's (except for linux) and do any of those come close to 1.5 gigabytes of code/apps/parts?
re read my list of challenge requirements for #1.. what OSP is on par for raw bytes & complexity... to the windows OS?
I can't vett "linux" as there is no "one linux" to compare against.- and none of them come 'core' with as many features INCLUDED in the os as microsoft- the same functionality is available I grant you- but not 'stock model'- as add-ons you can add as you determine your need.
this means however that a windows patch has to play niceley with all the other 'stock model' features.. which is my point- there is nothing more complex- serving more people- that makes it so unreasonable that a testing cycle is required to make sure that it won't break compatibility with some bizzare element 4 OS bits removed (but part of windows) over from the site of the problem.
I don't know where the 400 million source is, but- that's couldn't cover more than a month or two over a single year
& wit_id=2961
so- in two years, 800,000 per person caught.
see below, FY 05 budget for US-Visit was 340million (for one year) which is 10mill more than the prior year
http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=1034
US-VISIT Budget Requests In FY 2003, CBP processed 412.8 million passengers and pedestrians arriving in the U.S. - 327 million at land borders, 70.8 million at international airports, and 15 million at sea ports. The FY 2005 budget seeks $2.7 billion for border security inspections and trade facilitation at ports of entry and $1.8 billion for border security and control between ports of entry. This includes $10 million for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles testing and $64 million for border enforcement technology, such as sensors and cameras. The FY'05 budget provides $340 million for US-VISIT, an increase of $10 million over the FY 2004 funding. Only one month old, US-VISIT has successfully and efficiently recorded the entry of 1,114,119 passengers and the exit of 3,067 travelers without causing delays at ports of entry or hindering
but rather, after testing, and validating- then they support it.
how much do you pay for OS updates?
Like- what? that has to be compatible with every pc configuration, with every software configuration, quite literally, known to man.
1st, what OSP is on par for raw bytes & complexity... to the windows OS?
2nd- which of that subset get's patches in 24 hours
3rd- how often do these "right out the door" patches cause loss of functionality, for a subset of users, as (my line one above) every system configuration possibility was considered in the patch, that is still just works?
it's kinda herculean if you think about it..
consider a company where the CEO and the division head are brothers...
if one is an idiot, it hurts everything below.. and due to genetic stats, it's more likely they both are.
if you work for a division, who's brother is an idiot ceo,
now- substitute division with state, division head with govenor.. and ceo with president..
imagine, they are under TWO bushes...
imagine playing scrabble, and you set a prism (with one side-facing others-being one way glass) set over 'your' letters
you could see them in the mirror image on the side of the prism facing you- the other players could not.
substitute secure with stable above.
I find my XP machine is no more secure than ever
but damn, it is far, far more stable than any consumer MSFT os than before.
and I think that is more the general public's perception..
three years ago, our facility ran a system critical app on linux, that all the desktop pc's connected to under kermit.
my pc was connected to the 'intarnet' and my boss was flat out convinced something from the internet would get on my pc, and infect the linux server through the kermit session.. I spent far too much time and energy explaining at great length how very impossible this was.
god damn it!
there is att...
C:\>tracert slashdot.org
.210.126]
Tracing route to slashdot.org [66.35.250.150]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
**CUT SOME**
5 56 ms 52 ms 62 ms te-2-1-ar01.absecon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86
6 59 ms 69 ms 64 ms po10-ar01.audubon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.2
08.22]
7 58 ms 55 ms 52 ms 68.86.211.10
8 56 ms 69 ms 58 ms 12.118.114.17
9 62 ms 57 ms 60 ms tbr1-p012301.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.62]
10 68 ms 59 ms 59 ms tbr1-cl8.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.2.17]
11 65 ms 57 ms 62 ms ar5-a300s5.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.0.89]
See lines 9, 10, 11? see the part at the end? att.net? guess what that means?
try a tracert yourself.
no.
he referred in that book to a world that was suffering from an ice age,
but that was not the issue, and it was not solved it in the text...
a solution was discussed/not implemented...
Consider this. To use NTP, they have to use it to spec.
open specifications are still the property of the creators. (kinda like the GPL)
they are licensed to 'the world' to use, so long as the specification is followed.
the spec in this case, includes disallowing certain services to certain levels of useage
So, the creators of NTP spec can (in an extreme beyond all belief example)
deny d-link further permission to use NTP at all.
Further, if they are not following the spec (honoring requests by the NTP server not to be used
in this manner) you could as the owner of one of the devices(one again, extreme example)
sue d-link for advertising/listing on the box of the products in question,
for saying they are ntp capable- when it's proven they are not compatible with the spec.
(the spec that includes respecting requests not to be used in this manner)
what are your damages? at least the cost of the affected hardware.
forward the call to a fax machine, observe the output- follow up on it.
we can do this at my workplace, take an incomming call and dial a different outbound number.
Service Area: Networks BGP-announced on the DIX
Access Policy: open access to servers, please, no client use
"Since D-Link does not comply with these restrictions, D-Link has no legitimate access to the server, and it follows trivially that D-Link should have asked for my permission before including it in the list embedded in their products firmware. "
that is why
yea, but if the alternative routing is at least 50 miles away, it won't recalculate for a long time,
it'll just suggest u-turns- and the best possible 'recalculate' may not be obvious- which way to go?
could never benefit from an OS?w ave.html this one surely could.
http://www.beyondconnectedhome.com/products/micro
As I originally stated, it's a third party claim, repeated by me.
I've been explicit on this in my second response.
although it's repeating an unciteable information source,
and it's also not what I consider the most relevant, but rather the generality that
"dumb kids do in fact exist" you may find that sad, but can we agree it's a fact?
I have not looked into it myself, and wasn't tossing it out for that to be the most relevent portion.
the most relevant to the discussion idea was, some kids are dumb? it's a fact yes or no?
p.s. however, I ask you to consider, what would the affect on highschool average test scores be if you dropped the lowest six percent at age 14?
I know more than a few teachers who are angered by the unfunded mandate "no child left behind" the arguments appear to boil down to
1- there are some kids that should be left behind, there are some that are just dumb-some that should dig ditches.
2-other countries (esp the ones that always show the highest test scores) let kids out of school as early as age 10 if they aren't suited to education, and that would mean the remaining students will test higher on average
3-it's unfunded, yet for education systems to get the same amount of money as before the program, they have to spend a lot of time just getting kids to pass the 'left behind' tests that the schools are graded on.
Not saying that's right or wrong, but #1 makes sense, if there is a range of aptitude in homo sap, some will suck at intelli'j'ence.
There is no way to copy the location of a file to the clipboard
not correct.. right click the file, select properties.
move the mouse to the leftmost part, hold down the left click botton, move the mouse to the end, even if the path exceeds the display, you can select the entire name with path,
it's now selected (windows default, blue background, white text) hit ctrl+c
it's now on clipboard...
http://www.directcreative.com/aaexperiments.html
Wrapped brick. Wrapped in brown paper; posted in street corner box with same amount of postage as was strapped to unwrapped brick. Extreme weight for size made package seem suspicious. Notice of attempted delivery received, 16 days. Upon pickup at station, our mailing specialist received a plastic bag containing broken and pulverized remnants of brick. Inside was a small piece of paper with a number code on it. Our research indicates that this was some type of US Drug Enforcement Agency release slip. The clerk made our mailing specialist sign a form for receipt.
was licensed out, I own a teac and pioneer md player.
see the wikipedia listing under minidisc if you don't believe me.
http://www.panoramafactory.com/screens.html
can't be beat it just explains the process of using the software well.