I guess you haven't heard - they're Activision now. The Blizzard that used to have all these principles is slowly eroding in the face of the corporate machine. The 'wait until it is ready' ethic is largely a myth now, or otherwise we likely wouldn't see Cata until mid-2011.
So, so long as it benefits you, everything is golden. That's not an uncommon point of view, and is very human.
The slavery angle is in bad taste, and is way off the mark. This would be more like a recording artist who jumps from the label that gave them their start at the first opportunity. And, conversely, a label that never seeks out new talent, and only poaches from the indie labels.
You're looking to ascribe some kind of ill will towards those players looking for a leg up, and that's not the case. I'm disappointed by the ethics of those leaders who exclusively seek to poach players who are already developed. Taking all kinds is one thing, but actively seeking and attracting only those players that are developed beyond what pugging can provide is clearly one step too far.
(I'm fuzzy on the BG/PvP stuff... because the whole "you must have X+ rating" to buy the top tier gear was insulting. It meant that unless you were ahead of the curve, you would be forced to fight against better geared players in the 2nd half of the season. Which would trash your rating, preventing you from buying the better gear. Which was a vicious circle-jerk. So I haven't bothered to Arena it up or even go play Battlegrounds because the gear disparity basically makes you nothing more then roadkill.)
You might be pleased to note that the requirements are mostly going away. Except, I think, on weapons only. Look into it, though, if you think it could be your type of thing because they did recede a bit.
If you had a point here, and I'm not really prepared to concede that you do, what on earth does it have to do with the topic at hand? The post in TFA(I know, I know) is from a DEVELOPER, not a CUSTOMER at all. In fact, he claims that as a customer he's been very satisfied. What he is complaining about (commonly referred to in discussion formats as 'the topic') is how Apple restricts the content creators in a manner to which they really aren't entitled. This isn't 'what they choose to sell' as in 'movies', but rather 'what they choose to sell' as in 'only movies without minorities'. It is arbitrary and offensive, and serves no actual purpose other than creating a 'perfect world' of their own design.
Basically it's not an all or nothing proposition. There are nuances for how much wiggle room is allowed and how harsh the penalties are for exceeding it. WoW managed to find a decent spot (but not perfect, obviously.) That's why I'm wondering why would they want to take it to a worse spot for most players.
Because, just like the 30% buff in ICC, they can adjust it on the fly, as needed, later on down the road.
To be fair, I'll turn down players that are sub-4000/4500 on a fairly regular basis. You can easily eclipse that mark via the heroics, and I do think that this is a fair place to begin expecting people to do some sort of preparation for a raid.
This isn't usually the case, though. This kind of raid leader, the 'whisper me Gearscore, Achievement, and roll' (yes roll, not role is what they say) type guy, is looking for 5k or even sometimes 6k scores. They're wanting hardmode achievements when they themselves don't yet have them. A lot of progression guilds won't put you on the roster unless you have already farmed the highest 10-man tier for gear. That's the sort of thing I take offense to.
1) Goblins, too. They're probably going to be more popular than Worgen, and if lag is impacted by such things, expect to see that in Kalimdor as well.
2) LW mats will be absolutely worthless, so stockpiling them now is folly. Bear in mind that the Worgen racial bonus is to SKINNING. You're going to see a flooded market, I guarantee.
Not trying to be argumentative, but you're looking at the pug requirements from the wrong angle.
The underlying problem I have here is an ethical one. And to be completely honest, it is the same thing that gives me pause about the 'hardcore' level of play.
In order to get that gear, those achievements, etc, time must be invested. Someone, somewhere has to lead that player through that content, show them the ropes, carry them somewhat, and so on. This means that someone gave them a chance and let them into the raid.
Fast-forward to the guy setting up a pug, or reviewing a guild application, who is looking at this material. He (or she) is planning to profit by this effort, by not needing to expend it themselves. Because of the way raid lockouts and guild membership works, they are necessarily doing this at the expense of those that DID invest the time on them.
Now, half of the time the person in question is a truly unpalatable type that didn't quit the guild but got ejected. Gearscore won't tell you that, and that is a tiny bit of shadenfreude in way of consolation. But the other half of the time players that set these requirements are profiting off of the players like myself, and they often take the time to insult me for my efforts.
Sure, it is possible, but would there have been enough of your peers to make queuing for arenas anything but anguish? I'm thinking it would take something on the hundreds of players to make that work.
Maybe I'm underestimating how many would be willing to do it.
Also, were you 'hardcore' going into Wrath? Did you carry TBC gear with you into Naxx? Because I'm not seeing a parallel here with this particular gear reset.
I guess the biggest thing that interests me is how are they going to concentrate more on CC? When I quit playing at level 45 about a month after release there were very few crowd control spells (Turn to chicken and some roots?)
More classes have it now, and those that had it back then have seen CC significantly buffed from where you'd remember it being.
The general idea is: broken CC = wipe.
It will simply be too much for the tank and healer to handle. Either the tank will get burned over time or a mob will break off and start creaming people.
Bear in mind, though, that this is likely only going to be the case for trash. I'd be rather surprised if very many boss fights had this mechanic.
Tanks not holding aggro on beta/PTR is a bug. Not a design.
Not exactly. They have stated they want to keep threat low. Ghostcrawler explained what you're seeing as their not having a firm grasp of what the other changes were going to do to threat. They had other nerfs on deck, but it turned out that the underlying equation changes had more of an impact than desired, so they weren't needed.
If you think they're going to bring it back up as high as it was, you're the one who needs to do some reading.
The spec-swapping will be quite a bit easier this time around, for most classes anyway. Druids, for example, can Tree or Boomkin in the exact same gear - talents will convert spirit into hit automagically. Likewise, glyphs can be changed on the fly as they're going to be a part of your spellbook now. Same for many others as well. So maybe Blizzard assumes that people will just shift their roles around more often.
There was a conversation about the carnage this would wreak on the Dungeon Finder system, and IIRC the Blue response was basically 'Meh'.
Blizzard has literally programmed all of their customers to want and desire only the easiest of content and that has pretty much destroyed the game for anyone over the age of 10 who might actually want something challenging.
I know a cool kid wouldn't say this, but I find Wrath challenging. Still haven't downed LK yet. I'm leading a guild where we don't kick for performance reasons, though, so it becomes quite a bit harder.
I find it unfortunate that only the 'turn and burn' people get to say what 'challenging' means. 'Hard mode' was supposed to fix it, but it doesn't it. Even the hardcore complain about that one.
Personally I worry a bit that Cata is attempting to cater to customers that won't be loyal anyway.
Though, you're absolutely correct about the extremes, and I believe we'll see BOTH in this same expansion. I think it will start hard, and gradually slide towards easy.
WoW is a lot like the new golf. Nearly everyone has either played it, or has heard of it, and can at least carry on a conversation.
I think that is VERY much dependent on where you work / who is in your circle of acquaintances.
Indeed. I almost put 'everyone cool' or something along those lines, but I didn't want to generate a new debate on the desirability of conversation partners. Better put, possibly, would be that if they've never even heard of WoW, the chances of our being friends is relatively low.
Halving repair costs would do that as well. I'm sure bliz can come up with other money sinks. (Would be nice to hear this being true but i've not heard anything.
Funny you should mention that, but for most players they actually increased those costs. Everyone will now pay the price for plate repairs...
I'm replying to you despite how hard you tried to get the opposite result...
The only logical sense is player damage vs. tank threat.
That's close. Yes PvP and yes in comparison to the other two roles. The damage output, particularly burst can quickly, easily out pace both threat and healing output. DPS are going to have to change from their 'go go go go' mentality or they're going to wipe the entire group. They'll have the ability to AoE, post huge Recount number, etc, but won't be able to do so because tanks and heals can't keep up.
Ergo, conflict of interests.
But you are correct, I'm not talking about PvP. No idea how that's going to go because I haven't done any testing on it whatsoever.
Yeah, AoE-fests are supposed to be dead (tanks can't keep aggro, and heals can't keep up), and as DPS you now have to pace yourself. If you don't you'll go Oom and have to just sit and watch for the rest of the fight.
Wow just in time for the Christmas rush. Smart move on blizz or did it take too long?
I don't think Christmas is a factor for them. Nobody but nobody is going to buy this on the 7th, wrap it, and put it under the tree until the 25th. It might hurt sales of other titles, but somehow I doubt it. It is, after all, only $40 this time around. That's downright cheap for a PC title today.
Bear in mind that this iteration will introduce daily caps across every level (PvE, PvP, guild XP). I'm not sure how much it will take to achieve the cap, but Google should be able to tell you a few weeks/months after release. Check back. You may well find that an hour or two is adequate now, at least on non-raid nights. Depends on how high they set the cap...
Also with the flexible raid lock system, you might find that being on standby for a guild that's progressing faster than you individually is a lot less painful.
Slashdot Mirror
How fast do the comets and the like move through space?
How far do those go?
They're completely unpowered, so perhaps that would be a baseline?
Something with a nineteen inch widescreen isn't 'portable' by much of a margin. Could you imagine a reporter taking notes on a pad of paper that size?
I guess you haven't heard - they're Activision now. The Blizzard that used to have all these principles is slowly eroding in the face of the corporate machine. The 'wait until it is ready' ethic is largely a myth now, or otherwise we likely wouldn't see Cata until mid-2011.
So, so long as it benefits you, everything is golden. That's not an uncommon point of view, and is very human.
The slavery angle is in bad taste, and is way off the mark. This would be more like a recording artist who jumps from the label that gave them their start at the first opportunity. And, conversely, a label that never seeks out new talent, and only poaches from the indie labels.
You're looking to ascribe some kind of ill will towards those players looking for a leg up, and that's not the case. I'm disappointed by the ethics of those leaders who exclusively seek to poach players who are already developed. Taking all kinds is one thing, but actively seeking and attracting only those players that are developed beyond what pugging can provide is clearly one step too far.
(I'm fuzzy on the BG/PvP stuff... because the whole "you must have X+ rating" to buy the top tier gear was insulting. It meant that unless you were ahead of the curve, you would be forced to fight against better geared players in the 2nd half of the season. Which would trash your rating, preventing you from buying the better gear. Which was a vicious circle-jerk. So I haven't bothered to Arena it up or even go play Battlegrounds because the gear disparity basically makes you nothing more then roadkill.)
You might be pleased to note that the requirements are mostly going away. Except, I think, on weapons only. Look into it, though, if you think it could be your type of thing because they did recede a bit.
If you had a point here, and I'm not really prepared to concede that you do, what on earth does it have to do with the topic at hand? The post in TFA(I know, I know) is from a DEVELOPER, not a CUSTOMER at all. In fact, he claims that as a customer he's been very satisfied. What he is complaining about (commonly referred to in discussion formats as 'the topic') is how Apple restricts the content creators in a manner to which they really aren't entitled. This isn't 'what they choose to sell' as in 'movies', but rather 'what they choose to sell' as in 'only movies without minorities'. It is arbitrary and offensive, and serves no actual purpose other than creating a 'perfect world' of their own design.
Basically it's not an all or nothing proposition. There are nuances for how much wiggle room is allowed and how harsh the penalties are for exceeding it. WoW managed to find a decent spot (but not perfect, obviously.) That's why I'm wondering why would they want to take it to a worse spot for most players.
Because, just like the 30% buff in ICC, they can adjust it on the fly, as needed, later on down the road.
To be fair, I'll turn down players that are sub-4000/4500 on a fairly regular basis. You can easily eclipse that mark via the heroics, and I do think that this is a fair place to begin expecting people to do some sort of preparation for a raid.
This isn't usually the case, though. This kind of raid leader, the 'whisper me Gearscore, Achievement, and roll' (yes roll, not role is what they say) type guy, is looking for 5k or even sometimes 6k scores. They're wanting hardmode achievements when they themselves don't yet have them. A lot of progression guilds won't put you on the roster unless you have already farmed the highest 10-man tier for gear. That's the sort of thing I take offense to.
1) Goblins, too. They're probably going to be more popular than Worgen, and if lag is impacted by such things, expect to see that in Kalimdor as well.
2) LW mats will be absolutely worthless, so stockpiling them now is folly. Bear in mind that the Worgen racial bonus is to SKINNING. You're going to see a flooded market, I guarantee.
Not trying to be argumentative, but you're looking at the pug requirements from the wrong angle.
The underlying problem I have here is an ethical one. And to be completely honest, it is the same thing that gives me pause about the 'hardcore' level of play.
In order to get that gear, those achievements, etc, time must be invested. Someone, somewhere has to lead that player through that content, show them the ropes, carry them somewhat, and so on. This means that someone gave them a chance and let them into the raid.
Fast-forward to the guy setting up a pug, or reviewing a guild application, who is looking at this material. He (or she) is planning to profit by this effort, by not needing to expend it themselves. Because of the way raid lockouts and guild membership works, they are necessarily doing this at the expense of those that DID invest the time on them.
Now, half of the time the person in question is a truly unpalatable type that didn't quit the guild but got ejected. Gearscore won't tell you that, and that is a tiny bit of shadenfreude in way of consolation. But the other half of the time players that set these requirements are profiting off of the players like myself, and they often take the time to insult me for my efforts.
Just sad, really.
How is that Blizzard's fault? Neither GS nor achievements are actually built-in requirements for raids.
To be fair, Gearscore is now going to be built in in Cata. You're going to have an 'average ilevel' right next to your paper doll.
Sure, it is possible, but would there have been enough of your peers to make queuing for arenas anything but anguish? I'm thinking it would take something on the hundreds of players to make that work.
Maybe I'm underestimating how many would be willing to do it.
Also, were you 'hardcore' going into Wrath? Did you carry TBC gear with you into Naxx? Because I'm not seeing a parallel here with this particular gear reset.
Yes, this should be close to the same as you're describing, except:
A) Healers are supposed to play more like dps, in that there is an 'optimal' rotation and missing that mark means not doing as well.
and
B) There seems to be a LOT more movement, and a lot more dynamics in the fights. This is intended, I think, to aggravate A, above.
So no more hiding in corners, I don't think...
I guess the biggest thing that interests me is how are they going to concentrate more on CC? When I quit playing at level 45 about a month after release there were very few crowd control spells (Turn to chicken and some roots?)
More classes have it now, and those that had it back then have seen CC significantly buffed from where you'd remember it being.
The general idea is: broken CC = wipe.
It will simply be too much for the tank and healer to handle. Either the tank will get burned over time or a mob will break off and start creaming people.
Bear in mind, though, that this is likely only going to be the case for trash. I'd be rather surprised if very many boss fights had this mechanic.
Find a guild like mine, with people of that same type, and you'll be okay.
Tanks not holding aggro on beta/PTR is a bug. Not a design.
Not exactly. They have stated they want to keep threat low. Ghostcrawler explained what you're seeing as their not having a firm grasp of what the other changes were going to do to threat. They had other nerfs on deck, but it turned out that the underlying equation changes had more of an impact than desired, so they weren't needed.
If you think they're going to bring it back up as high as it was, you're the one who needs to do some reading.
The spec-swapping will be quite a bit easier this time around, for most classes anyway. Druids, for example, can Tree or Boomkin in the exact same gear - talents will convert spirit into hit automagically. Likewise, glyphs can be changed on the fly as they're going to be a part of your spellbook now. Same for many others as well. So maybe Blizzard assumes that people will just shift their roles around more often.
There was a conversation about the carnage this would wreak on the Dungeon Finder system, and IIRC the Blue response was basically 'Meh'.
Blizzard has literally programmed all of their customers to want and desire only the easiest of content and that has pretty much destroyed the game for anyone over the age of 10 who might actually want something challenging.
I know a cool kid wouldn't say this, but I find Wrath challenging. Still haven't downed LK yet. I'm leading a guild where we don't kick for performance reasons, though, so it becomes quite a bit harder.
I find it unfortunate that only the 'turn and burn' people get to say what 'challenging' means. 'Hard mode' was supposed to fix it, but it doesn't it. Even the hardcore complain about that one.
Personally I worry a bit that Cata is attempting to cater to customers that won't be loyal anyway.
Though, you're absolutely correct about the extremes, and I believe we'll see BOTH in this same expansion. I think it will start hard, and gradually slide towards easy.
WoW is a lot like the new golf. Nearly everyone has either played it, or has heard of it, and can at least carry on a conversation.
I think that is VERY much dependent on where you work / who is in your circle of acquaintances.
Indeed. I almost put 'everyone cool' or something along those lines, but I didn't want to generate a new debate on the desirability of conversation partners. Better put, possibly, would be that if they've never even heard of WoW, the chances of our being friends is relatively low.
Halving repair costs would do that as well. I'm sure bliz can come up with other money sinks. (Would be nice to hear this being true but i've not heard anything.
Funny you should mention that, but for most players they actually increased those costs. Everyone will now pay the price for plate repairs...
Sorry - Yes PvE*
I'm replying to you despite how hard you tried to get the opposite result...
The only logical sense is player damage vs. tank threat.
That's close. Yes PvP and yes in comparison to the other two roles. The damage output, particularly burst can quickly, easily out pace both threat and healing output. DPS are going to have to change from their 'go go go go' mentality or they're going to wipe the entire group. They'll have the ability to AoE, post huge Recount number, etc, but won't be able to do so because tanks and heals can't keep up.
Ergo, conflict of interests.
But you are correct, I'm not talking about PvP. No idea how that's going to go because I haven't done any testing on it whatsoever.
Yeah, AoE-fests are supposed to be dead (tanks can't keep aggro, and heals can't keep up), and as DPS you now have to pace yourself. If you don't you'll go Oom and have to just sit and watch for the rest of the fight.
Wow just in time for the Christmas rush. Smart move on blizz or did it take too long?
I don't think Christmas is a factor for them. Nobody but nobody is going to buy this on the 7th, wrap it, and put it under the tree until the 25th. It might hurt sales of other titles, but somehow I doubt it. It is, after all, only $40 this time around. That's downright cheap for a PC title today.
Bear in mind that this iteration will introduce daily caps across every level (PvE, PvP, guild XP). I'm not sure how much it will take to achieve the cap, but Google should be able to tell you a few weeks/months after release. Check back. You may well find that an hour or two is adequate now, at least on non-raid nights. Depends on how high they set the cap...
Also with the flexible raid lock system, you might find that being on standby for a guild that's progressing faster than you individually is a lot less painful.