Global Warming does in fact exist - most articulate and intelligent skeptics agree this is the case - and do not DENY the existence of Global Warming.
Climate Change exists - again most intelligent skeptics also agree with this well known fact and do not DENY it. In fact the global climate constantly changes from year to year, and has been doing so for multi millions of years.
What most articulate and intelligent skeptics argue, is that the theory that "Man-contributed atmospheric CO2 is causing unprecendented global warming" has not been sufficiently proven. That is it.
The theory is called Anthropogenic Global Warming, or AGW.
Don't let ANYONE call it "Climate Change" - this is a weasel method of muddying the waters of the debate. It's a weasel method the scaremongers use so that they're able to say "X is a CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER".
Don't let the scaremongers say "Global Warming" either. Insist on the Anthropogenic, or man-induced global warming name EVERY time you speak about this - because not doing so also opens you up to "X DENIES GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS".
It also has no SUV's , no CO2-producing factories, no human beings living there - which is the whole point - it's like a control sample on a planetary scale no less.
Sure, it has less gravity, mass, thinner atmosphere amongst other things. Nevertheless, it's our next door neighbour, and it has been shown to be warming up, in tandem with the Earth warming up. You cannot conveniently discount this fact as easily as you tried.
So scientist are bad because they arent treating the un-scientific criticism of their work in a scientific manner ?
^---[citation needed]
YES they are bad. ANY and ALL scientific pieces of work should be able to stand up on
the merits of their reserach and reasoning alone. Yes, scientists are also human and have
human emotions - but as soon as they resort to insult they bring themselves down to the
level of this alledged unscientific criticism, and hence open themselves up to
doubt in the listener's mind.
I can't say I'm surprised you were marked as troll on Slashdot for saying what you did. It appears there are too many people who have either been taken in by the IPCC propaganda over the last decade or so, and/or who simply aren't thinking the whole issue through sensibly.
Whoever moderated this as Troll is being disingenuous in the extreme.
There is absolutely NOTHING troll-worthy in what amiga3D said.
See, this is what I've noticed about/. in the last 5 years or so - seems to be inhabited by people who can't subscribe to any anti-anthropogenic cuased global warming argument. So, anything which is said against the AGW argument gets modded down.
FACT : AGW *IS* heavilly politicised. FACT : anti-AGW arguments and reasoning appear to be met by insult,ridicule, and attempted censorship.
Honestly, people, if you can't simply argue your case for and against, in a reasonable manner, and have to resort to insults, and censorship, then you have already lost the argument.
So, you decided to go KK on all 4 installations - fair enough, BUT, 1) You should have known what you were installing before doing so, 2) After the first failure, you subsequently decided to go through it an ADDITIONAL 3 times - even on your VM's! 3) Perhaps test driving it - either on a Live edition of KK on a spare machine, and/or even installing it on a spare machine - to see how it is BEFORE installing it on your 4 systems might be a good idea.
Seriously, dude, STEP AWAY FROM TECHNOLOGY because you fail at it.:)
Incidentally, I made fresh installs on my HP dv8000ea - works flawlessy (had to use fwcutter to nab the horrible Broadcom wlan firmware but that's not Canonical's fault), installed it fresh on my new shiny Asus N10J - works beautifully. And finally, have been using KK on my "production" box through gradual updates ever since KK began to exist - works flawlessly.
Someone post mod this AC up, because I'm just about burn my moderation on this thread by posting in it.
To AC - precisely - you've hit the nail squarely on the head!
Listen, everyone, look at the phrasing of the term - CLIMATE/CHANGE/ ?
Now, think: how can you slow down climate/change/ ? Slow down the rate-of-change of a dynamic, chaotic system? Absolute nonsense!
As AC points out, it's been called Global Warming in the past. In the 70's we had a HUGE scare about an imminent new mini Ice Age, then we had another huge scare about Global Warming.
And now the Anthropogenic Global Warming fundies are calling it - Climate Change! Yes of course! Because let's ignore evidence which is pointing to the global climate is actually cooling down, because that's not going to help the Agenda , which is to make a fast buck, to keep us all in Fear, and therefor is another way of subjugating us all.
And most of these Slashdot commenters have been taken in by this phrase Climate Change - really, I want all of you who used that phrase in earnest in a reply to sit back for 30 minutes and think that term through - Climate Change. Change implies "an alteration of the state of something from it's original state to another state" - this means something can GO BOTH WAYS! Please, do not get this phrase redefined as another way of saying Global Warming, because that's exactly what the folks with an agenda want you to do.
Rant over.
However, the point about painting surfaces white might actually be genuinely beneficial to cities. Cities are hot becuase they are "heat islands" - where a city is now used to be either desert, grassland, forest, etc. depending on where the city is located - those pre-city areas didn't have the problem of excessive heat sticking around. Cities do becuase they're generally made from concrete, ashphalt surfaces, brick buildings and the like, which absorbs heat then slowly releases that heat back into the local area's atmosphere - hence cities generally get very hot. The paint idea is not a bad one at all - however, there are also alternatives - mirrored surfaces (on roofs - you don't want to dazzle everyone on the ground of course) would reflect more radiation than white paint - mirroed surfaces would probably last longer than white paint, which would need to be refreshed probably every year. And what's wrong with planting grass on every roof too? Surely covering any sirface which could be covered with soil and grass would also be a good idea?
Would it be irony if their book was copyrighted?;)
Also, I'm glad to see the description of the term "Intellectual Property" called for precisely what it is : propaganda. It's time for this term to be thrown out, and not to let so-called self-professed "intellectual property owners" inject this horrible term into the collective mind-set any further - it muddies the water of the discussion.
From the summary : "users would give up their anonymity and certain freedoms in return for safety".
*gets out clue by four* NO NO NO NO NO! *WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM*
Quote : "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
Listen...
Even if at first this New Improved Internet worked the way these fools said it should, you can have a pretty sure bet that, human nature being human nature, a lot of the so-called "bad" which happens to people on the current internet would begin to happen there too.
Most of the comments I've read so far are either concentrating on legislation, and/or a technical solution to the spam problem.
Legislation won't solve the problem (a la drugs, guns, or any illegal vice you care to think of - they still happen despite legislation)...
Technical solutions would solve the problem - if only the whole planet would instantly switch over to "New Improved Email Services[tm]" at precisely the same time - again, at the moment this looks to be unlikely due to the sheer logistics of accomplishing such a task.
What I think is a better solution, is to begin educating whoever is going to be using an email system - and you begin that education EARLY.
Today's children are tomorrow's email users, consumers, workers, and contributors to Society. The current spam problem is NOT a technical or a political problem as such - it is a SOCIAL problem - i.e. a lot of humans are stupid and naiive - and it is this naivety which the spammers and surrepticious criminals prey upon. Why do most of us not recognise this?
Begin a program of - oh I don't know what you might call it - "Life Education classes" - in which you at least TRY to get young children to begin to get savvy to shysters, tricksters, con-men, whether offline OR online. Educate them on the dangers of following spam adverts, online scams, etc. Do this from kindergarten age upwards through high school - drum the message in.
At the end of it - when these kids exit high school or Univeristy, they at least have been ingrained with a certain skepticism about spam and other ways to get conned by crooks.
Another way of putting it is this : spammers, scammers, and criminals prey upon naivety - it is their oxygen supply. If we start imbuing new generations of future users with a healthy dose of awareness about the dangers of following these spams and scams, you're beginning to cut off that oxygen supply to the crooks.
This of course won't solve the immediate problem, but, again I point out, this is an escalating SOCIAL problem, and should NOT be considered a technological problem - what's happening now is the social problem is being exacerbated by the technology. Remove or reduce the social problem and the urgency of the technological and political problem is also reduced.
Good reply - I wasn't criticising the burn up, only asking if more use of things such as the solar panels could be made, and I fully understand the reason why they burn the thing up in the Earth's atmosphere after its primary purpose has completed. ESA, btw, are in fact thinking seriously about producing a version of the ATV which could carry crew to the ISS.
The video is up on the site now and is eerily beautiful to watch.
Though I can't help but think: what a waste of a valuable resource! If they sent up additional fuel for it, it could be re-used again and again - not to mention - why destroy the solar cells? Is it out-with the bounds of possibility to re-use the ATV (by refueling it) or even to make it recyclable (remove solar cells before burning the rest of the ATV up)?
I realise they used it to also burn up a load of waste from the ISS, but really, what makes it so worthless that they don't want to keep using it?
But consider this : in order for Those In Power to keep their power, they have to do a number of things;
1) Subvert the Constitution - because it gets in the way of their plans. 2) Create an atmosphere of Fear - this is accomplished in a number of ways;
a) Create more criminals - this is done by adding lots of laws.
b) Engineer situations where you can create enough world tension that eventually you can say you
are in a permanent state of "war". 3) Dumb the people down - again, this can be accomplished in a number of ways;
a) Culturally - dumb down the Press, TV
b) Educationally - dumb down the system.
What you have seen is the use of point 2)(a) in that basically They Can Get You For Anything if you do something to disrupt their plans.
Picture based password entry - you type in your password by selecting a series of images selected from the keyboard - for extra security you have the picture selections shuffle around the keys after each key press - yeah I know - that'll be a pain hunting for the correct sequence, but at least anyone trying to use a keyboard sniffer will be suitably thwarted (until such time as they come up with a way to intercept all those keyboard commands and responses being sent to and from the keyboard and the computer).
Slashdot Mirror
*sigh*
Global Warming does in fact exist - most articulate and intelligent skeptics agree this is the case - and do not DENY the existence of Global Warming.
Climate Change exists - again most intelligent skeptics also agree with this well known fact and do not DENY it. In fact the global climate constantly changes from year to year, and has been doing so for multi millions of years.
What most articulate and intelligent skeptics argue, is that the theory that "Man-contributed atmospheric CO2 is causing unprecendented global warming" has not been sufficiently proven. That is it.
The theory is called Anthropogenic Global Warming, or AGW.
Don't let ANYONE call it "Climate Change" - this is a weasel method of muddying the waters of the debate. It's a weasel method the scaremongers use so that they're able to say "X is a CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER".
Don't let the scaremongers say "Global Warming" either. Insist on the Anthropogenic, or man-induced global warming name EVERY time you speak about this - because not doing so also opens you up to "X DENIES GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS".
Well, I have cited the link to www.climateaudit.org, where anyone
can browse to and should read the history of what they did.
Your claim that Steve McIntyre went on to say:
.. is an outright lie - one which can be disproven by reading up on the site - where
you will see that McIntyre insists that replies to his posts about the science, be
kept to the subject at hand. On such posts, anything off-topic, or which goes into
the realm of politics gets snipped, and the reason given.
However, nice try - it'll only work on those who don't bother to see for themselves if what you or I are saying is true or not.
It also has no SUV's , no CO2-producing factories, no human beings living there - which is the whole point - it's like a control sample on a planetary scale no less.
Sure, it has less gravity, mass, thinner atmosphere amongst other things. Nevertheless, it's our next door neighbour, and it has been shown to be warming up, in tandem with the Earth warming up. You cannot conveniently discount this fact as easily as you tried.
You're not the only one.
Nice try, but you have it completely wrong.
...ad nauseum...
Let me pick a random website to cite an example...
www.climateaudit.org
<climateaudit> Hey guys, I noticed something a bit weird about your figures - here's what's weird...
<Scientists> PREPOSTEROUS! LIES! DENIER! SCUMBAG! IDIOT! MORON!
<climateaudit> Er, ok. Lemme recheck..... yep gone over the figures again. Say, could you send me the raw data you used for your research?
<Scientists> DENIER! DENIER! LIES! I"D RATHER ERASE ALL THE RAW DATA THAN SEND IT TO SCUM LIKE YOU!
If I had mod points I'd mod you back up. Unfortunately Slashdot is overrun by
morons these days.
Keep it up. They're losing the argument.
^---[citation needed] YES they are bad. ANY and ALL scientific pieces of work should be able to stand up on the merits of their reserach and reasoning alone. Yes, scientists are also human and have human emotions - but as soon as they resort to insult they bring themselves down to the level of this alledged unscientific criticism, and hence open themselves up to doubt in the listener's mind.
Heheh - see my rant in support of you, too.
I just labelled you as "friend".
I can't say I'm surprised you were marked as troll on Slashdot for saying what you did.
It appears there are too many people who have either been taken in by the IPCC propaganda over the last decade
or so, and/or who simply aren't thinking the whole issue through sensibly.
Anyway - keep it up.
Whoever moderated this as Troll is being disingenuous in the extreme.
/. in the last 5 years or so - seems to be inhabited by
There is absolutely NOTHING troll-worthy in what amiga3D said.
See, this is what I've noticed about
people who can't subscribe to any anti-anthropogenic cuased global warming argument. So, anything
which is said against the AGW argument gets modded down.
FACT : AGW *IS* heavilly politicised.
FACT : anti-AGW arguments and reasoning appear to be met by insult,ridicule, and attempted censorship.
Honestly, people, if you can't simply argue your case for and against, in a reasonable manner, and have to
resort to insults, and censorship, then you have already lost the argument.
Wait - you say you had 4 failures?
:)
So, you decided to go KK on all 4 installations - fair enough, BUT, 1) You should have known what you were installing before doing so, 2) After the first failure, you subsequently decided to go through it an ADDITIONAL 3 times - even on your VM's! 3) Perhaps test driving it - either on a Live edition of KK on a spare machine, and/or even installing it on a spare machine - to see how it is BEFORE installing it on your 4 systems might be a good idea.
Seriously, dude, STEP AWAY FROM TECHNOLOGY because you fail at it.
Incidentally, I made fresh installs on my HP dv8000ea - works flawlessy (had to use fwcutter to nab the horrible Broadcom wlan firmware but that's not Canonical's fault), installed it fresh on my new shiny Asus N10J - works beautifully. And finally, have been using KK on my "production" box through gradual updates ever since KK began to exist - works flawlessly.
WTF are you talking about? ;)
Someone post mod this AC up, because I'm just about burn my moderation on this thread by posting in it.
/CHANGE/ ?
/change/ ? Slow down the rate-of-change of a dynamic, chaotic system? Absolute nonsense!
To AC - precisely - you've hit the nail squarely on the head!
Listen, everyone, look at the phrasing of the term - CLIMATE
Now, think: how can you slow down climate
As AC points out, it's been called Global Warming in the past. In the 70's we had a HUGE scare about an imminent new mini Ice Age, then we had another huge scare about Global Warming.
And now the Anthropogenic Global Warming fundies are calling it - Climate Change! Yes of course! Because let's ignore evidence which is pointing to the global climate is actually cooling down, because that's not going to help the Agenda , which is to make a fast buck, to keep us all in Fear, and therefor is another way of subjugating us all.
And most of these Slashdot commenters have been taken in by this phrase Climate Change - really, I want all of you who used that phrase in earnest in a reply to sit back for 30 minutes and think that term through - Climate Change. Change implies "an alteration of the state of something from it's original state to another state" - this means something can GO BOTH WAYS! Please, do not get this phrase redefined as another way of saying Global Warming, because that's exactly what the folks with an agenda want you to do.
Rant over.
However, the point about painting surfaces white might actually be genuinely beneficial to cities. Cities are hot becuase they are "heat islands" - where a city is now used to be either desert, grassland, forest, etc. depending on where the city is located - those pre-city areas didn't have the problem of excessive heat sticking around. Cities do becuase they're generally made from concrete, ashphalt surfaces, brick buildings and the like, which absorbs heat then slowly releases that heat back into the local area's atmosphere - hence cities generally get very hot. The paint idea is not a bad one at all - however, there are also alternatives - mirrored surfaces (on roofs - you don't want to dazzle everyone on the ground of course) would reflect more radiation than white paint - mirroed surfaces would probably last longer than white paint, which would need to be refreshed probably every year. And what's wrong with planting grass on every roof too? Surely covering any sirface which could be covered with soil and grass would also be a good idea?
Would it be irony if their book was copyrighted? ;)
Also, I'm glad to see the description of the term "Intellectual Property" called for precisely what it is : propaganda. It's time for this term to be thrown out, and not to let so-called self-professed "intellectual property owners" inject this horrible term into the collective mind-set any further - it muddies the water of the discussion.
Pedant. All 10 of you.
...the long and slippery slope.
From the summary : "users would give up their anonymity and certain freedoms in return for safety".
*gets out clue by four* NO NO NO NO NO! *WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM*
Quote : "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
Listen...
Even if at first this New Improved Internet worked the way these fools said it should, you can have a pretty sure bet that,
human nature being human nature, a lot of the so-called "bad" which happens to people on the current internet would begin to
happen there too.
That is all.
Only in some regional accents within the UK would what you say be valid, and then, only regional accents within England would that be true.
;)
I'm from Scotland, and when I say "propaganda" I say it as "propaganda", when I say "car", I say "car".
Not everyone in the UK would pronounce those words as you have stated, therefore what you have stated isn't entirely accurate.
Just to let you know
Most of the comments I've read so far are either concentrating on legislation, and/or a technical solution to the spam problem.
Legislation won't solve the problem (a la drugs, guns, or any illegal vice you care to think of - they still happen despite legislation)...
Technical solutions would solve the problem - if only the whole planet would instantly switch over to "New Improved Email Services[tm]" at precisely the same time - again, at the moment this looks to be unlikely due to the sheer logistics of accomplishing such a task.
What I think is a better solution, is to begin educating whoever is going to be using an email system - and you begin that education EARLY.
Today's children are tomorrow's email users, consumers, workers, and contributors to Society. The current spam problem is NOT a technical or a political problem as such - it is a SOCIAL problem - i.e. a lot of humans are stupid and naiive - and it is this naivety which the spammers and surrepticious criminals prey upon. Why do most of us not recognise this?
Begin a program of - oh I don't know what you might call it - "Life Education classes" - in which you at least TRY to get young children to begin to get savvy to shysters, tricksters, con-men, whether offline OR online. Educate them on the dangers of following spam adverts, online scams, etc. Do this from kindergarten age upwards through high school - drum the message in.
At the end of it - when these kids exit high school or Univeristy, they at least have been ingrained with a certain skepticism about spam and other ways to get conned by crooks.
Another way of putting it is this : spammers, scammers, and criminals prey upon naivety - it is their oxygen supply. If we start imbuing new generations of future users with a healthy dose of awareness about the dangers of following these spams and scams, you're beginning to cut off that oxygen supply to the crooks.
This of course won't solve the immediate problem, but, again I point out, this is an escalating SOCIAL problem, and should NOT be considered a technological problem - what's happening now is the social problem is being exacerbated by the technology. Remove or reduce the social problem and the urgency of the technological and political problem is also reduced.
Get off my lawn!
Good reply - I wasn't criticising the burn up, only asking if more use of things such as the solar panels could be made, and I fully understand the reason why they burn the thing up in the Earth's atmosphere after its primary purpose has completed. ESA, btw, are in fact thinking seriously about producing a version of the ATV which could carry crew to the ISS.
The video is up on the site now and is eerily beautiful to watch.
Though I can't help but think: what a waste of a valuable resource! If they sent up additional fuel for it, it could be re-used
again and again - not to mention - why destroy the solar cells? Is it out-with the bounds of possibility to re-use the ATV
(by refueling it) or even to make it recyclable (remove solar cells before burning the rest of the ATV up)?
I realise they used it to also burn up a load of waste from the ISS, but really, what makes it so worthless that they
don't want to keep using it?
It obviously doesn't.
But consider this : in order for Those In Power to keep their power, they have to do a number of things;
1) Subvert the Constitution - because it gets in the way of their plans.
2) Create an atmosphere of Fear - this is accomplished in a number of ways;
a) Create more criminals - this is done by adding lots of laws.
b) Engineer situations where you can create enough world tension that eventually you can say you
are in a permanent state of "war".
3) Dumb the people down - again, this can be accomplished in a number of ways;
a) Culturally - dumb down the Press, TV
b) Educationally - dumb down the system.
What you have seen is the use of point 2)(a) in that basically They Can Get You For Anything if you do something
to disrupt their plans.
Welcome, America, to your Police State.
Chasing after Venus, of course, but she's playing Hard To Get.
Picture based password entry - you type in your password by selecting a series of images selected from the keyboard - for extra security you have the picture selections shuffle around the keys after each key press - yeah I know - that'll be a pain hunting for the correct sequence, but at least anyone trying to use a keyboard sniffer will be suitably thwarted (until such time as they come up with a way to intercept all those keyboard commands and responses being sent to and from the keyboard and the computer).
Switch to Linux.
no need for abacuses.
Enough said.
This is where I collapse the universe by stating that I, in fact, am married, and have spawned a child process ;)
Best Regar<FOOM>