BSA Software Piracy Fight Smacks of RIAA Crackdown

Ron Paul Dennis Kucinich writes "A Business Software Alliance raid on musical-instrument maker Ernie Ball Inc. cost the company $90,000 in a settlement. Soon after, Microsoft sent other businesses in the region around Ball's a flyer offering discounts on software licenses, along with a reminder not to wind up like Ernie Ball. Enraged, CEO Sterling Ball vowed never to use Microsoft software again, even if 'we have to buy 10,000 abacuses.' Similar BSA raids around the country have been provoking strong reactions from put-upon business owners, echoing similar reactions to music-lovers targeted by the RIAA."

Comments

The solution is simple

[NeoTron]

Switch to Linux.

no need for abacuses.

Enough said.

Re:The solution is simple

[Slashidiot]

Yep, if you read TFA, that's what they did.

Enraged, CEO Sterling Ball vowed never to use Microsoft software again, even if "we have to buy 10,000 abacuses." He shifted to open-source software, which lacks such legal entanglements because its underlying code is freely distributed.

Re:The solution is simple

[Macthorpe]

Yep, if you read TFA, that's what they did. Yep. About 5 years ago.

Seriously, this is old.

Re:The solution is simple

[Plunky]

| Yep, if you read TFA, that's what they did.

Thats funny, I read TFA and linux was not mentioned at all..

            "open source" > "linux"

Re:The solution is simple

[unlametheweak]

In the long run, it would be easier and cheaper for businesses to invest in open source software with a generous license.

No need to monitor licenses (or have lawyers interpret the licenses for you), no company lock-in, no BSA worries or worries about disgruntled employees, no extra book keeping to keep track of licenses, receipts, or hardware (with licensed software already installed). And of course, it's easily and infinitely customizable because the source code is available.

Re:The solution is simple

[Calinous]

Even after the move (which came with other benefits), they were still using Windows on one or two computers (to run some accounting application)

Re:The solution is simple

[MrMickS]

Simpler solution. Don't pirate software. They wouldn't pirate guitars, just because its possible to install the software onto more than one machine doesn't mean they should.

Re:The solution is simple

[limber]

Amusingly...

"The company still runs its critical business applications on a Unix server using an accounting package from The SCO Group, formerly Caldera International."

(from TFA)

Re:The solution is simple

[Daengbo]

Apparently everyone who knows the case agrees that Ernie Ball didn't intend to pirate. Things like that happen in businesses, especially small ones. Responsibilities move and the software moves with them. People install random stuff without authorization. Receipts get lost (I understand that the BSA requires not only proof of licens but proof of purchase, as well).

Saying "Don't pirate" is easy. Getting a company of any size to reach 100% compliance is utterly painful. It's no different than being autdited by the IRS -- they're going to get you for something.

Re:The solution is simple

[Volante3192]

Last time I checked the licencing for the student/teacher edition of Powerpoint (I believe 2003) it allowed installation on three seperate machines.

Then there's the per device and per user licencing.

It'd be easy to keep track of if the only licencing model out there was "one key, one system" but in order to appease big businesses there's volume licencing, and that spread out into other different models. The fact that there are businesses out there who exist simply to keep track of licences says there's something dreadfully wrong with the current system.

Re:The solution is simple

[cheater512]

They probably would pirate guitars if they figured out a way to. :)

Using open source is the better option. Far less paper work and its a lot simpler.

Re:The solution is simple

[cerberusss]

No, it's not, RTFA. The article summarizes the current state of affairs concerning the BSA.

Re:The solution is simple

[Macthorpe]

No, it's not, RTFA. Where do you think you are ;)

Seriously though - you're right, the article is an interesting read and the summary is, let's be honest, completely misleading.

Re:The solution is simple

[cerberusss]

I concur :-)

Re:The solution is simple

[faloi]

Don't pirate software is one thing. And I'd be willing to bet they didn't intend to pirate software. Hiring enough of an IT staff to be sure you stay in compliance, and that won't bend to pressure to "just get a system up and running" before they've licensed the software (or stay after it enough to make sure you do get the license soon after) is another option. The bottom line is that most small companies won't do it. I'd be willing to bet that most businesses that pirate software in the States aren't intending to pirate software. It's the odd install of Office on a new machine to get it on someones desk, or installing XP back over Vista on your new machine because the software you need won't run on Vista (and you don't know that, in some cases, you can trade "down" to XP).

Re:The solution is simple

[deniable]

I knew there was a problem when companies started listing 'licensing engineers' in their schedules of rates.

Re:The solution is simple

[ePhil_One]

Seriously though - you're right, the article is an interesting read and the summary is, let's be honest, completely misleading.

You must be new here...

Re:The solution is simple

[Blakey Rat]

Would be interesting to see a follow-up to see if they:

1) Are still using open source software, and don't have any Microsoft products
2) Are in violation of any licenses. (After all, that's what they got busted for in the first place-- you can violate an open source license too.)

But this on Slashdot, it's a non-story. It was news in 2002.

Re:The solution is simple

[yurnotsoeviltwin]

Knowing that they switched to OSS makes me love Ernie Ball Musicman basses even more! Seriously, those things are sick.

One interesting thing I noticed is that the article (well, slashdot in general) contrasts the cumbersome intricacies licenses of regular software with the simplicity of OSS. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of OSS because of the freedom, but the licenses aren't exactly easy to understand. You know that whole GPLv3 debate? A lot of those provisions (and a lot of the provisions in GPLv2) are pretty funky and wouldn't be something you'd assume unless you were familiar with the GPL. Now, the OSS folks aren't nearly as bad as the BSA because we don't go balls out to get money from companies in violation of our licenses, but I think it's fair to say that everyone could do with a little more simplicity and a lot less legal tangles when it comes to software licensing.

Re:The solution is simple

[Dog-Cow]

The problem is that only the most careful accounting can prove you have a license for all your software. The BSA does not care if you're legal. They aren't the Law, so they can and do presume guilty until proven innocent.

Re:The solution is simple

[Danathar]

The Apple Sales rep should of been at his door 10 minutes after he said that.

Re:The solution is simple

[Anonymous Coward]

licensing engineers?
I just thought it was a typo for Licensed Engineers!
Learn something new every day.

Re:The solution is simple

[Myopic]

It's synecdoche, dude; look it up.

Re:The solution is simple

[clang_jangle]

Simpler solution. Don't pirate software. They wouldn't pirate guitars...

Using software you bought is not piracy, no matter what idiocy the EULA tries to present as "law". Copyright and patent law is completely broken in the US now, thanks to asshats like the BSA, RIAA, and MPAA (and thanks to sheep like you going along with them).
Nevertheless, most of us feel just as we always did -- and it's just common sense after all -- You buy the thing, you own it. Fair use means no state or corporate agency can tell me what to do with *my* copy, as long as I don't redistribute it.

Re:The solution is simple

[jedidiah]

When do you know when it's inappropriate to install something onto another machine?

When are you just giving some software vendor free money by being overly paranoid?

Is there some magical network aware license manager that
counts up everything for you and spits you out a nice
shiny happy report to tell you you've done wrong.

Intellectual property "theft" is easy. You might not even realize you did it.

It's a lot harder to do that with a physical artifact like a guitar or some strings.

"Don't pirate" is not a "simple solution". It's a management quagmire.

Re:The solution is simple

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing that kills me is not having the receipt lets these fools call you a software pirate. That's quite a stretch. The worst they should be able to do is cite you for breach of contract which is not theft. If I'm accused of being a thief, they'd have to PROVE I stole this software in court, wouldn't they? The burden of proof is on them - like they have pictures of me buying this out of the trunk of a car or downloading from TPB. I know, they've got lots of threats in their basket of evil but little of it should hold up under the light of the actual Law.

Re:The solution is simple

[homer_ca]

The BSA also busts Mac shops on behalf of Adobe, Microsoft (for Office), etc. If we ever get Photoshop and MS Office on Linux, maybe we'll have to worry about the BSA too.

Re:The solution is simple

[nsayer]

Perhaps so, but if you read the summary (much less TFA), it says that Ball's outrage was not caused by the BSA but by Microsoft using them in a marketing campaign centered around an anti-piracy message.

Re:The solution is simple

[finkployd]

you can violate an open source license too

Only if you are re-distributing code you modified. I doubt Ernie Ball is doing that.

Finkployd

Re:The solution is simple

[Blakey Rat]

If he's buying open source software from MySQL or RedHat, there are a variety of things he could be doing to violate the various agreements involved.

Re:The solution is simple

[Anonymous Coward]

the licencing for the student/teacher edition of Powerpoint (I believe 2003) it allowed installation on three seperate machines. The current versions are called "Home and Student," which clarifies who's allowed to use them. The license allows three installations per household, so it's not that hard to keep track. Also, the license for these versions do not allow business use, so the BSA won't hassle users unless they're stupid businesses.

BSA Tip Line

[mastershake_phd]

Maybe the RIAA will take a page out of the BSA play book and start a tip line. I can see it now "Drop the dime on your friends, family, and coworkers and get a free Brittany Spears CD!"

Re:BSA Tip Line

[Anonymous Coward]

Or the other way around -- give us the name of a music pirate, or we'll flood your mailbox with Britney Spears CDs!

That should frighten anyone with ears.

Re:BSA Tip Line

[bytesex]

I don't have ears, you insensitive clod ! Maybe they could threaten to flood my inbox with those upskirts pics instead.

Re:BSA Tip Line

[ddrichardson]

Maybe the RIAA will take a page out of the BSA play book and start a tip line. I can see it now "Drop the dime on your friends, family, and coworkers or we'll send you a free Brittany Spears CD!"

Fixed that for you!

Re:BSA Tip Line

[oboreruhito]

Submitter sent in the wrong story, I'm assuming. The Associated Press ran a much more recent story yesterday about two things that have come to light since Ernie Ball: 1. The BSA does have a tip line now, with a $1 million reward for whistleblowers. 2. 90 percent of the BSA's $13 million in settlements came not from larger businesses with hundreds or thousands of employees, like Ernie Ball, but from much smaller firms that don't have the legal resources to even begin to fight the BSA, and who arguably don't have the legal representation to even understand the licenses to which they're agreeing. $90,000 isn't as much to Ernie Ball as $67,000 is to the 10-employee architectural firm in that AP story. What's scary is that the BSA is going after pittances - one or two violated licenses - on anonymous employee tips. From the AP article:

BSA enforcement director Jenny Blank disputes the notion that her group is encouraging employees to exploit mere technicalities and "onesy, twosy random noncompliance." That's why, she said, it focuses on the worst offenders. Yet in 2005, her group pursued Mediaport Entertainment Inc. of Salt Lake City, where an audit revealed just two unlicensed copies of Microsoft software. Retail value: $6,500. The BSA pressed for $16,500; the sides reached an undisclosed settlement.

Bottom line: Don't use BSA software, and don't trust your employees. Even if you do nothing but Linux, there's still ways some disgruntled employee can leave behind pirated, or even legal-but-mismanaged (shared folder, circumvented license administration) copies of a BSA program on a few systems, call the BSA, and get his $1 million while you try to get a $20,000 "fine" down to a $10,000 settlement.

Re:BSA Tip Line

[Gilmoure]

I thought her skirts were too short for an 'up'.

Re:BSA Tip Line

[Anonymous Coward]

ROTFLMAO good comment.

Re:BSA Tip Line

[davidsyes]

Even MORE now than ever, companies fearful of the riaa/bsa need to:

-- go with virtualization and terminal servers to remove hard drives and media access port so ANY employees who don't need them

-- replace with Open Source as MUCH software as they can

-- pony up money for consultative groups with similar passion for not being pursued by mshaft

-- come up with new NDA documents that specify that the company will counter-sue ANY employee who discloses licensing violations without FIRST notifying IT, the company counsel, and the company president (hmmm, sort of like the supposed checks-and-balances of Executive, Legislative, and Judicial?) on an OPEN display board so that no one side can snuff out the early notifications... this so that the company has a fighting chance to clean up whether or not it wantonly or negligently slipped into using illegal or miscounted copies of software...

Re:BSA Tip Line

[davidsyes]

I hit send button too soon...

Many businesses, in order to avoid the bsa, need to collectively push for new legislation that makes grudge-based "whistle-blowing" subject to unmasking WHO is suing. If bsa won't reveal sources, then the company simply should get a "notice of demanded correction" and NO intimidation/fees/fines of ANY sort by bsa. This will destroy their business model and force them to make money a cleaner, less destructive way to small companies.

But, ultimately, to wreck their business model, Open Source needs to be part of the corrective process. Obviously, people will cheat, but if QUALITY (read: non-geek) substitutes arrive on scene, then

-- either mshaft and others will go berserk and try even harder to destroy Open Source, or

-- mshaft will blackmail/buy up more O/S,

-- or O/S will gain more ground.

A combination of these could happen/continue to happen

10,000 Abacuses?

[Matti-han]

My dear sir, let me introduce you to something called 'linux'. I favor Kubuntu myself.

Re:10,000 Abacuses?

[Jesus_666]

Actually, Ernie Ball uses RedHat.

Re:10,000 Abacuses?

[Anonymous Coward]

Many years ago I read about a Harley Davidson dealer hit by the the BSA to the tune of $500K. He then went 100% OSS. I found it strange that I heard so little of BSA actions as the flood of RIAA suits were hitting th e news. I attributed it to the rise of a valid competitors like Linux OS and OSS appications.

So I find it odd that the BSA is back in the news as Linux is a stronger competitor than ever. Unfortunately for these people they got smacked, however it is a new wake up call to Administrators to run audits and get there licenses in order. Better yet subscribe to the easiest license to abide by, the GPL.

If a disgruntled employee drops a dime on you, it can cost thousands of dollars and many headaches to "prove your innocence".

Re:10,000 Abacuses?

[joebutton]

Abacuses are extremely reliable. You can always count on them.

Re:10,000 Abacuses?

[Anonymous Coward]

From a related article.

"Beyond hunting for dicey characters buying and selling counterfeits, the BSA also devotes significant attention to other forms of what it calls piracy by business users. The money harvested in these company-by-company crackdowns is not parceled to its members whose copyrights were infringed; the funds stay with the BSA to fuel its operations. (BSA's worldwide settlements soared 53 percent last year to $56 million.)"

I could list a number of reasons why this statement alone pisses me off, but I'd be wasting my breath. I'd be hard pressed to find someone on this site that would disagree with anything I would have to say. Read through the article, see if you can do it without thinking something rotten about the BSA.

Re:10,000 Abacuses?

[Kalriath]

That's not a related article, that IS the article. TFA is the AP source for it.

10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux installs?

[MostAwesomeDude]

Both cheaper, and more powerful.

Also, I have a lot of respect for Ernie Ball products; their guitar strings are my favorite. I'm relating this story to my local LUG. They deserve some respect for publicly denouncing MS.

Yes, he REALLY meant abacuses

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on you nerds, he said it for dramatic effect. HE IS NOT GOING TO START SLIDING FUCKING NOBS ACROSS STICKS.

So you can stop saying "no need for abacuses! try linux!"

Re:Yes, he REALLY meant abacuses

[lewko]

I think you'll find he was probably referring to this.

Re:Yes, he REALLY meant abacuses

[Frederico Camara]

No need for Linux, try abacuses!

I sense a great opportunity here for former MicroSoft employees, start a Major Abacuses Manufacturing Enterprise.

Regards,

Re:Yes, he REALLY meant abacuses

[Anonymous Coward]

You know you've been online too long when your first reading of this went something like this:

HE IS NOT GOING TO START SLIDING FUCKING NOOBS ACROSS STICKS.

Authority for raids?

[shawnmchorse]

I've never understood this. The BSA is obviously just a trade group with no authority whatsoever to conduct raids and such. If they decide they need to "raid" a business, then generally they would just have a suspicion that this business 'might' have some of their software installed and some of that software 'might' not be fully licensed. Is that really enough for local law enforcement to go along with it? A lot of the coverage I've read about BSA raids seems to imply that the business involved went along with the raid voluntarily, and I have trouble understanding why any business would do so.

Re:Authority for raids?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever read a EULA?
I haven't, but you grant them permission in there somewhere.

Re:Authority for raids?

[RuBLed]

Like DMCA Title IV Section 408?

Re:Authority for raids?

[DaleGlass]

There's an old story on how the BSA works

Re:Authority for raids?

[nacturation]

It goes like this:

BSA: "We have reliable evidence from a confidential source [read: disgruntled (ex-)employee] that you don't have valid licenses to the software you use."
Company: "You don't have any authority over us. GTFO."
BSA: "Fine."

[BSA starts suit against company, submits evidence to a judge, and during the discovery period requests complete documentation of all software being run on company systems, along with licenses and date of purchase. If company fails to provide, BSA files for a motion to compel or some such legal mumbo-jumbo that basically gives the BSA the judge-approved legal right to take apart every computer and really ruin their day.]

BSA: "According to what we found, it appears you're liable for tens of millions of dollars of damages according to current copyright fines."
Company: "Err... gosh, maybe we overlooked purchasing a few hundred software licenses here and there. Our bad. Say, do you have any kind of compliance deal for companies like ours who accidentally used unlicensed software on every computer we own and where we don't have to admit guilt?"
BSA: "Sure, just fork over $90,000 on top of paying our legal bills and purchasing licenses for all that software we discovered, you admit no wrongdoing, but you also agree to annual audits from here on."
Company: "Yeah, again, our bad... hey, who should we make this payable to?"

[Company makes the payment, BSA cashes it, company buys licenses to all software, and BSA files motion to dismiss suit.]

Re:Authority for raids?

[Anonymous Coward]

The BSA works like a state medical board for licensing doctors. A private organization enforcing rules that stand up in court.

Doctors usually lose their license for messing with the business model, not for incompetence.

Re:Authority for raids?

[UKRevenant]

The BSA send around letters offering to do free audits for companies, complete with scare stories about what happens if they are found to be using unlicensed software. Giving the impression that they are doing you a favour by enabling you to head off such a situation.

What they actually do is audit you and then threaten you if they find you short of licenses so you have to pay up. The audit is used to gather the evidence they would need for a court case.

Trading Standards have in the past advised businesses to bin the BSA letters, this still remains the best thing to do with software audit offers. You should do it yourself and that way no one can hold you to ransom over the findings. You should also make it clear to anyone who has the ability (log in permissions not necessarily technical) to never install anything without being able to show entitlement to do so.

Re:Authority for raids?

[rbochan]

...Is that really enough for local law enforcement to go along with it?...

If by "local law enforcement" you mean raided by "armed U.S. Marshals", then apparently yes.

Re:Authority for raids?

[fwr]

I don't understand how the BSA could have standing to file a suit. It's not their software. Just like I don't understand how the RIAA has standing to sue people for copyright infringement for copying songs that are owned by their members. The RIAA does not own the copyright, so how can they sue without standing?

Re:Authority for raids?

[GooberToo]

I don't understand how the BSA could have standing to file a suit.

IIRC, the BSA has proxy agreements with most of the largest software development companies. They legally represent these companies in matters of software license compliance. Again, IIRC, the BSA was actually created by companies like Microsoft to look after their licensing interests. Failure to comply with the BSA usually means license invalidation.

Re:Authority for raids?

[GooberToo]

If by "local law enforcement" you mean raided by "armed U.S. Marshals", then apparently yes.

This is the part I don't understand. Even if a company is in violation, refusal to submit to an audit is strictly a contractual violation. This is civil, not criminal, unless they can factually prove violations exist. And how can they prove violations exist if no one will submit to an audit. It always strikes me as a chicken and egg situation.

Re:Authority for raids?

[porcupine8]

I'm pretty sure the RIAA doesn't sue people, the record companies do. But every time an RIAA member is featured here because of their suing, they're referred to as "the RIAA."

Re:Authority for raids?

[ShadowsHawk]

The RIAA doesn't file the suits. If you go and read one, you'll discover that the suit is actually filed by the copyright holder (Universal, BMG, etc). I'd bet that the same applies to the BSA. Both are simply a front to bear the ill will of their victims and the public.

Re:Authority for raids?

[geminidomino]

Both are simply a front to bear the ill will of their victims and the public. Then why does Microsoft waste its time being a member? A Hoth-esque energy shield couldn't deflect the ill will they eat on a daily basis?

Re:Authority for raids?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every company should tell the BSA directly to go fuck themselves when they show up for audits, and also let them know that if they continue to pursue the matter they will find themselves on the receiving end of a countersuit for fraud and whatever else their attorney can cook up. The BSA conducts nothing but 'fishing expeditions', and since when is the word of a disgruntled employee 'proof' of anything?

Every business should tell the BSA it is a direct violation of their own internal security policy and legal right to trade secrets to let an outside company such as the BSA root through their computer network.

Re:Authority for raids?

[Bryansix]

Well you can just do what people in my business do (The Mortgage Business) and bankrupt the company who infringed, take all of the physical assets of said company over to another company that just so happens to have the same address and employ all of the same people, install Linux and go on with our days.

Re:Authority for raids?

[DamnStupidElf]

I've never understood this. The BSA is obviously just a trade group with no authority whatsoever to conduct raids and such. If they decide they need to "raid" a business, then generally they would just have a suspicion that this business 'might' have some of their software installed and some of that software 'might' not be fully licensed. Is that really enough for local law enforcement to go along with it? A lot of the coverage I've read about BSA raids seems to imply that the business involved went along with the raid voluntarily, and I have trouble understanding why any business would do so.

Read your EULAs. Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your agreement if you ever violate the terms of the license, which includes never installing more copies than you are licensed for. Furthermore, you are required to keep the "certificate of authenticity" as proof of your license. The BSA is in essentially the same position as the *IAA, acting on the legal behalf of their member companies to sue businesses for copyright infringement. Part of a civil suit is discovery, and the BSA can demand proof of ownership for licensed installs. They could also press for criminal copyright infringement charges which would involve the local police or the FBI (since I bet you obtained or operated those illegal copies across state lines in some way...). In general, it's the same "settle or get massive copyright infringement fines and potential jail time" attack that the RIAA has been using against normal people. Businesses either agree to the BSA's audit or go directly to court and involve lawyers.

Re:Authority for raids?

[kbielefe]

From the article:

In extreme cases, the BSA will get court approval to raid companies in search of evidence.

I presume the testimony of an employee is sufficient probable cause for a court to order a raid. However, the article states that it's only necessary in extreme cases. There are two good reasons why a company would voluntarily submit to a raid:

• Money. If the BSA has to take you to court, you can bet they will ask for a lot more money than if you cooperate willingly.
• Vendor Lock-in. Members of the BSA do not have to do business with you. If you don't follow the terms of your licensing agreement, they are perfectly within their rights to refuse to allow you to use the software. If you think your business can't survive without the software, you have a big problem.

What I don't understand is why these businesses put themselves in such a risky position in the first place. Can you imagine if every small business with these six-figure fines or licensing fees invested that money instead to developing/improving an open source alternative that they could all benefit from?

Re:Authority for raids?

[Reziac]

The BSA raided a business next door to my sister's work. The BSA arrived with a Federal Marshall, which naturally ensured that the door was open to the BSA.

Re:Authority for raids?

[davidsyes]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=370419&cid=21481241

If they want to go on an easter egg hunt, let THEM pay for it. Companies need to respond to those EULAs by first COMMENCING paying for whatever fees they pay when activating, then telling the agent:

-- Now, we won't send the check until you exempt us from a raid. We will bring in our OWN auditor of choice from a listed authority, OTHER THAN THE BSA, and if you don't amend the terms of the sales and licensing agreement, we won't buy licenses of your software.

Re:Authority for raids?

[nacturation]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=370419&cid=21481241 You lost me at "mshaft".

Dupe

[phayes]

This is the oldest dupe I've seen on slashdot!

Re:Dupe

[RuBLed]

Actually TFS was the "big" dupe, the contents of TFA is at least not.. TFS was extracted from the bottom "past references" because it sounds sensational. (I would even have a hard time finding TFS from TFA if not for Search)

Re:Dupe

[blind biker]

It's so old, we should actually revisit the "case" and see how he's been doing sans MS products. Anyone wanna contact them?

Re:Dupe

[blind monkey 3]

This is still old but Three years after the event.

Re:Dupe

[Asmodai]

And why link to an intermediate site instead of the real article?

http://www.news.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html

Actually, you want to kill BSA/RIAA??

[Anonymous Coward]

DO call the tip line with company names. Piss off enough of the companies and yes, they will switch to Apple or Linux rather than deal with these nazis. At this time, there is not enough harassment, just intimidation.

Re:Actually, you want to kill BSA/RIAA??

[Anonymous Coward]

I [heart] Apple, and I'm typing this on a PowerBook right now, but they're a member of the BSA.

Re:Actually, you want to kill BSA/RIAA??

[davidsyes]

That would take a LOT of balls to smother microshaft...

(Too bad enough competing and non-competing companies don't join to find common needs/ground so that an Open Source solution accelerates instead of plods along. I am not thinking OO.o...)

Re:Actually, you want to kill BSA/RIAA??

[HiThere]

Have you read a recent EULA from Apple? They no longer deserve your love.

OTOH, the BSA *does* have a reputation of acting as if MS is the only company paying their rent.

Great news

[Slashidiot]

I think this is great news for FOSS people. Up until now, most software vendors have been quite generous on their piracy tolerance. If these companies start pushing it hard, and making people pay, things will start changing.

Many people just download photoshop because that's what they know. If they have to pay for it, there will be a HUGE shift to GIMP. And that's even more true with Microsoft stuff, at least in Spain. I know very few people who have bought a copy of Windows (not counting what came with the computer). But it's easy to pirate, so they go for it. If they faced fines of 1000 euro for it (or had to pay 300 to buy it in the first place), a lot of people would consider linux. Now, both are free (in practice), so price is not a problem when choosing. Factor that in, and things look very different.

So, good news, people will start using what they need, and not the professional (and expensive) tool for home stuff. And that usually means open source.

Re:Great news

[hidden]

In my ideal world, you would be correct. However...

In reality, the computer already has windows installed, so replacing it with linux is a fairly major effort. To use your photoshop example, I suspect rather more people would purchase something like PaintShopPro, than would install GIMP...and it would meet their needs quite nicely, for much less money,

Re:Great news

[rolfc]

Install Gimp on windows, wouldnt cost them a penny, or a cent or anything except their time.

Re:Great news

[petermgreen]

you miss the critical thing, the BSA only tends to go after buisnesses.

So people get hooked on expensive software like photoshop through pirate copies then when they need to use it for work they buy it legit.

As for windows virtually everyone in the western world pays for it as part of thier computer purchase. Most PC vendors would not dare sell a machine with pirate windows preloaded (especially in theese days of WGA which invites users to rat on thier supplier in exchange for a free windows license) and most users expect windows installed and working when they buy the machine.

Re:Great news

[Macthorpe]

They could also install Paint.NET on Windows, which is free and I much prefer.

Never been one for the 'separate window for everything' layout of Gimp.

Re:Great news

[Virgil Tibbs]

search google for gimpshop and your criticisms will vanish

Re:Great news

[ricegf]

replacing it with linux is a fairly major effort

The real seismic shift is from proprietary Windows-only applications to free and portable applications.

Once all of your applications are available on both Windows and Linux, "fairly major effort" above becomes "fairly trivial effort".

Re:Great news

[tepples]

Install Gimp on windows, wouldnt cost them a penny, or a cent or anything except their time. But make sure to try GIMP 2.2.17 in addition to the new 2.4 series. The 2.4 series has changed the way the user selects and deselects pixels, making it a pain in the ass to move the selected pixels within a layer.

Re:Great news

[Anonymous Coward]

search google for gimpshop and your criticisms will vanish Paint.NET is still better. It'd be nice if it was ported to Mono...

Still, I prefer the floating windows UI. I deeply despise Windows-style mdi's.

Re:Great news

[shawn(at)fsu]

We hear the argument about GIMP will be huge if people have to pay for Photoshop. In the commercial world that just doesn't work like that. I think companies tend to go with what ever is the industry standard most of the time. Sure while Photoshop CS3 at $699 for Joe user at home it's nothing for a business because they recoup their costs when they sell what ever product it is that they are using Photoshop for.

I say this while I use the gimp at home.

Re:Great news

[iminplaya]

You can be sure they will tread lightly to prevent that. But when it does happen, it's a good idea to publicize it here and everywhere to help make the public and other businesses aware of it. Something I'm sure the BSA does not want to happen. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were to attempt to get a gag order to prevent public dissemination of such events.

Re:Great news

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're in a truely professional environment that uses Photoshop for printing I'd love to see you print the same works from GIMP and get the same results. I dare you.
 
And while I don't agree with the tactics the bottom line is that if you're a business turning a profit you better be willing to ante up when it comes down to software. How many OSS projects of a professional nature do you think would be out there if there was no chance to reap some reward for the efforts? These people are hoping to get support dollars for their efforts where as Adobe wants to sell the software. Just a different model but both parties are hoping for the same outcome.

Re:Great news

[adisakp]

So, good news, people will start using what they need, and not the professional (and expensive) tool for home stuff. And that usually means open source.

In general, people want to use Photoshop and Office at home or a completely transparent replacement. The open source software may be free but there's a big price in time to learn two software packages and they are trained on the commercial packages at work. Not to mention that if they occasionally bring work home, they need a compatible package to open and edit the files.

"Good enough for home" might work for hobbyist software and special case needs but when you are taking on giants in established fields like Spreadsheets, Word Processing, Image Editing, the "good enough for home" just isn't good enough. Who wants to learn how to do the same thing twice with an inferior tool?

Re:Great news

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot one thing: GIMP still sucks really, really hard.

Re:Great news

[bjorniac]

I shudder to think what'll come up - I'm at work damn it!

Re:Great news

[mollymoo]

I've never understood why some people think having an uninteligible sliver of /. (or whatever) appearing between a toolbar and a document is a good thing.

Re:Great news

[Rick17JJ]

At home, I use Gimp on both my Windows computer and my Linux computer. I have a few other free open source GPL licensed programs on both computers too such as Open Office, Firefox, Abiword. Those programs are all available in both Windows and Linux versions. The Windows computer has mostly free GPL licensed software on it and does not have much of the usual commercial software such as Microsoft Office.

Gimp for Windows

Re:Great news

[Rick17JJ]

Many of the major free GPL licensed programs are now available in both Windows and Linux versions. In the past they were only available for Linux/Unix users. If a small business wanted to they could replace Microsoft Office and most of their other commercial applications with free GPL licensed alternatives and still keep Windows. Here are a few examples:

• OpenOffice
• KOffice will soon be cross platform
• Thunderbird
• Firefox
• GIMP for Windows
• AbiWord

Re:Great news

[ricegf]

You're absolutely right (and KDE4's application portability may well be a huge benefit to KDE-oriented developers). Many large IT departments have been adopting free software products such as Eclipse in large numbers, and targeting free cross-platform technologies such as Java, AJAX and Python for their in-house applications.

One great thing about this trend is that, once a company has migrated to FOSS for its commercial and custom applications, the operating system becomes almost irrelevant. So Linux, Mac and Windows can compete on a more even playing field, with the commercial application base playing a much smaller role.

None of this is to downplay Microsoft's excellent support for Windows-only developers - but wise IT departments should think long and hard before marrying any proprietary technology. Anybody remember the Vax? :-)

Ahh!!!

[NickCatal]

Submitted by 'Ron Paul Dennis Kucinich'

Oh my god, Slashdot has become Reddit

Re:Ahh!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

That really irritates me, considering the only two things they really have in common politically are that they disapprove of the current Iraq war and both are the black sheep of their parties to the party leaders.

2002 News? Really?

[svunt]

Five years is an awfully long time ago. Heads up, editors :)

Re:2002 News? Really?

[Tablizer]

Five years is an awfully long time ago. Heads up, editors :)

Relax, this is just open-source dupe-finding in progress.

I wonder what the Ball company has done since, though.

What ever happened to that saying

[Ekhymosis]

No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft? ...oh wait. But seriously, this whole licensing crap is really pissing off many people/companies who most likely have legit copies that mysteriously flag as illegal. While this is indeed old news, I'm glad this will bring some new people to the FOSS camp as an alternative to draconian licensing deals, etc. The more positive news for FOSS, the better, no?

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[Anonymous Coward]

fckgw-rhqq2-yxrkt-8tg6w-2b7q8

that's from memory...

i wonder how many machines were loaded with that key.

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[crowbarsarefornerdyg]

I think this is _justified_ AC posting. Heh.

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[freedom_india]

I do wish BSA would somehow attack Harvard and then get such a whacking by 10,000 trust-fund wanna-be lawyers and their interns, that they give back the name to Boy Scouts of America.
OTOH, i do buy games like Company of Heroes to promote good games so that the manufacturers make more such excellent games.
Seriously why can't OS be prices at $39.39 instead of 129...

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[Young Gemini]

What copy of Windows is $129? Or is that the price of an upgrade copy of Vista home basic or whatever?

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[Zathruss]

Damn that serial look familiar...

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[Kredal]

http://www.fukung.net/v/7434/winxp_early.jpg

That picture is work safe.. can't speak for the rest of the site though. (:

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[walshy007]

here vista ultimate costs $751 Australian rrp, more than enough for a perfectly good pc in itself.... well, assuming it wasn't going to run vista of course

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[petermgreen]

Whitebox OEM vista home basic and XP home go for arround £50 inc VAT (our equivilent of sales tax) here in the uk. It is widely belived that the big vendors pay even less.

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[CastrTroy]

Maybe because an OS is probably the most complicated piece of software on your computer. Why should an operating system be cheaper than a word processor? Maybe we should be arguing that all software is overpriced, but prices seem to be similar across all vendors, not just from Microsoft. Photoshop Elements costs $100. It's actually a pretty good deal that Windows only costs $129. Without the operating system, the computer is nothing. Winzip costs $29.99, and Winzip Pro (whatever that is) is $49.99. Windows is starting to look like quite a value when comparing that. Especially considering I've never seen a use for winzip since Windows XP came out with built in zip support.

Re:What ever happened to that saying

[toddestan]

Not many now, as that was one of the few keys that had the honor of being blacklisted from SP1 (IIRC). But yeah, I know that one.

OK if you're a poor student P2P'ing music, but...

[Jugalator]

If you're the target of the BSA, I don't feel as much remorse...

If you don't have the money to pay for the software your business use, you shouldn't use the software in the first place.

Can we get a new icon?

[zappepcs]

something with a handgun and a foot?

Re:Can we get a new icon?

[Rufty]

Such an icon would have limited applicability.
Anything concerning the the RIAA could still contain the "foot" part, but the "gun" would have to be large and belt fed.

Re:Can we get a new icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

That Icon is claimed by the directors of Amiga Inc. And SCO (amongst others)

Microsoft fanbois.

[unity100]

Im REALLY wondering how are you going to rationalize this racketeering 'sales' practice employed by your beloved firm.

Re:Microsoft fanbois.

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll just ask the Apple fanbois how to rationalize it. Nobody is better at rationalizing than Apple's little cult.

Re:Microsoft fanbois.

[Rakarra]

They'll just ask the Apple fanbois how to rationalize it. Nobody is better at rationalizing than Apple's little cult.

I knew there was something that could bring Microsoft and Apple fanbois together!

uhm....

[SuperDre]

The reason mister Bell is angry is not really because of the Raid (ofcourse he isn't happy with it, but that's his own fault).. The reason he is angry is because his name got mentioned in the flyer, and that's something I can agree on.. But again, the whole article is written as a sensationarticle (by linking it to RIAA) as if he is angry because of the raid..

No sympathy for Ball.

[t0qer]

Ball should have paid for their software.

I've mostly worked in desktop support for over 1/3rd of my life so far. I don't do cubicles or offices anymore unless it's a favor for someone that's not going to be a pain in the ass, or ask me to do back breaking work (like breaking my back lifting an 200lb IBM netfinity server onto a rack). No no, those days are over.

Over those years though I can't recount how many times a customer would need a windows re-install, or an office re-install, whatever. I'd ask for the original CD and they'd tell me "Don't you have a copy?"

The "Don't you just have a copy?" people were the same people that would nag and haggle me on my billing, like it was some sort of open air arab market, instead of a indoor air conditioned "professional" workplace.

These days i've all but quit doing IT type support, cept for a few special cases. My current business/company uses windows, and i've gotten legit copies from various places. A few programmer friends got me copies of XP from the MS employee store for $35 each, which I have running on 2 machines. I also purchased a copy for another machine for $99. The rest of the machines at my business are running Linux.

Open Office does fine for me.

Maybe because I started off in IT and knew what type jerks steal stuff, I made a personal choice that I didn't want to be like them.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't RTFA did you? From TFA

"The BSA considers software pirated if a company can't produce a receipt for it, no matter how long ago it was purchased. Software boxes or certificates of authenticity are no help, because the BSA argues the software could have been obtained from an illegitimate source." Nice.

Have you got receipts for all those copies of XP your mates bought for you? Does the EULA on those copies allow a non Microsoft employee to install them?

Sorry for posting AC, I read /. a lot but I can't be bothered creating an account.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you 100%. This is just the normal situation of internet fanbois crying and screaming and generally bitching because they got caught.
You can't whine that microsoft are evil, then pirate their software, then whine you get caught. you just look like a prick. It's just a pity the fines were not way higher.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[The Breeze]

No sympathy for Ball?

I have no sympathy for YOU.

In case you are unaware, with the BSA, it doesn't matter if you are legit or not.

What matters is that you have original receipts.

You can have the COA, stickers galore, original media, you name it.

If you don't have the original receipt, they will consider you in violation. You MIGHT prevail at court - but the BSA will tell you straight out that even if you win the legal fees will dwarf their "SETTLEMENT FEE".

As for you, my friend with no sympathy, transfer of licensed software purchased at the MS store almost certainly has some clause in it prohibiting transfers from employees to a commercial authority. Do you have a receipt from that employee who sold or gave you the software? If yes, then they could possibly lose their job and you're still in violation. If no, you are well and truly fucked.

Software licensing is a nightmare for any medium to large company. Period.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[Shakrai]

Over those years though I can't recount how many times a customer would need a windows re-install, or an office re-install, whatever. I'd ask for the original CD and they'd tell me "Don't you have a copy?"

Uhh, being a little paranoid, don't you think?

In the case of Windows I'm quite happy to install it from my media, provided that I'm using a activation key of theirs (i.e: the sticker is already on their PC with the license key). Who the hell cares if they have the original CD or not? Windows XP Pro is Windows XP Pro, regardless of your CD or theirs.

Office is a little trickier, because the license key is typically with the CD and not the computer, but even so, if you had their license key it wouldn't matter if you installed it from YOUR cd.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[T.E.D.]

I'd ask for the original CD and they'd tell me "Don't you have a copy?"

According to TFA, original media doesn't matter to the BSA. What they want is your original reciept. If you don't still have that you just as out of compliance. Meanwhile, if your media-less wonders have their reciepts, they are just peachy.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[tsstahl]

A few programmer friends got me copies of XP from the MS employee store for $35 each, which I have running on 2 machines.

You have just admitted to copyright infringement by violating license terms. Does your high horse give you enough clearance to be heard over the din of others turning themselves in?

You are in exactly the same gray area the article talks about. I think I'll report you to the BSA and see what kind of reward I can collect out of your hide.

Food for thought?

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[Anonymous Coward]

paying for an illegal copy is even more stupid than not paying at all.

I would be very surprised if MS employee are allowed to sell there employee copies to someone else.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[Anonymous Coward]

I likes open air arab markets. You try to use illegal softwarez. We cut off your floppy drive.

Next is your hard drive...dat one hurtz much more.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[SnarfQuest]

Over those years though I can't recount how many times a customer would need a windows re-install, or an office re-install, whatever. I'd ask for the original CD and they'd tell me "Don't you have a copy?"

And how many of those were just people who legally bought a new PC with Windows preinstalled on it, but were not supplied with installation CD's? Most PC's sold do not come with install CD's, nor do the purchasers have any way of getting them without paying an excessive amount of money for another copy of their Windows OS. Most of them don't even know that they might need these CD's at some future time.

MicroSoft encourages these practices because it allows them another change to screw their customers. How many people know that the "Certificates of authenticity" are worthless scrap? How many know that you are guilty of piracy until proven innocent?

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[t0qer]

Figured i'd respond to yours, it'd space things out a bit between posts.

And how many of those were just people who legally bought a new PC with Windows preinstalled on it

Try none?

These types of customers were the worst. Always wanting cheaper cheaper cheaper. If they needed a "new" PC i'd first suggest going new dell, and if that was shot down i'd source quality parts, and they would ALWAYS pull crap at the last minute like "Oh my brother in law can build it cheaper". I'd sit there and explain things like, "If you buy a genuine intel motherboard, it's not hard to find drivers or updates, and they run solid" The brother in law would always end up getting some crap mobo that would constantly crash/bluescreen/whatever. Finding out who made the Mobo was even worse, i'd always end up having to track them down through their FCC #, and even that was a deadend sometimes.

The other nightmarish shit I had to deal with was the "Ebay" client. This guy always had to buy his stuff from Ebay. It would arrive not working, 1/2 working, missing parts and what not and it was always up to me to fix it.

Ok, here's where we get into some other nagging issues I had with these guys...

You buy crap hardware that breaks constantly or causes blue screens, then send that crap out to your employees that have to work with it all day who's the first person they're going to call? The IT guy right?

So I would get calls on the same problems. "Toqer why does it blue screen?" I'd do the usual defrag, scandisk, canned air to the case. It wasn't really my fault that their boss bought crap hardware and ran pirated software on it, but the employees still needed some sort of consolation that these problems were not thier fault.

"Toqer why am I paying for the same thing 5 times?" was what one lawyer customer would ask me. "Shouldn't you have fixed it right the first time so it didn't break and additional 4?"

Heh, I remember that day pretty clearly. I looked him square in the eye and told him, "I don't care if you no longer want my services for being honest, but I warned you that buying crap hardware would result in this situation. You have nobody to blame except your cheapness for this."

Anyways, again, to reiterate my original point, the type of people that refuse to pay for software / pirate it are the same type of people I don't want to do business with. They just have a fucked up sense of entitlement, like they're doing you a favor by breathing.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[DamnStupidElf]

A few programmer friends got me copies of XP from the MS employee store for $35 each, which I have running on 2 machines.

You might want to make sure that Microsoft actually allowed your friends to transfer their license to you. I know the student editions expire once you're no longer a student, and apparently some of their corporate employee purchase programs also have expiring licenses when the employees leave the corporation.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[t0qer]

My friend is in charge of writing drivers for a pretty famous hardware company. He's been there 11 years. Can't/won't say who but i'm sure everyone replying in the thread has used their products at least once.

Before Vista's release (before any OS release) MS invites the people in charge of driver development from major companies up to redmond. They put them up in a nice hotel, all expenses paid trip. While they're there MS gives each dev a guest pass to the MS store.

The guest pass allows them to spend only a certain dollar amount at the store. In his case, it was $150. He got me 2 copies of XP, and I think some stuff for his other friends/family while he was there.

I just compared EULA's from my $99 Fry's copy of XP to the EULA's from the ones from the MS store. They're identicle. The only difference is my MS store copies came in a box, while my Fry's copy was just a scint manual and CD encased in shrinkwrap.

I saw a lot of "OMG YOU'RE VIOLATED" replies to my original post. I guess this makes those moot.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[cloakable]

Yes, just completely ignore all the ways posted above you that the BSA could label you a pirate while still having purchased software.

I find it interesting that nobody in your camp has posted a reply yet to counter these arguments.

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[DamnStupidElf]

I just compared EULA's from my $99 Fry's copy of XP to the EULA's from the ones from the MS store. They're identicle. The only difference is my MS store copies came in a box, while my Fry's copy was just a scint manual and CD encased in shrinkwrap.

So, did you keep the receipts and the holographic logos to prove to the BSA that you own the licenses?

Re:No sympathy for Ball.

[t0qer]

I'm holding them in my hand...Uhh... Yah?

Big problem for smaller businesses

[Anonymous Coward]

License compliance is not such a big deal for larger businesses, they can get company wide deals and afford dedicated compliance officers.
It's also not a big problem for very small businesses (say, less than 10 PCs), since they'll probably run with the copy of windows supplied with them and have individual per PC licenses for other products (assuming they intend to be legal). The biggest problems are probably for businesses which fall somewhere in the middle who can't afford a dedicated compliance officer; they often need to buy excessive unneeded licenses to be absolutely sure they're not only legal, but can easily prove it if raided.

Re:Big problem for smaller businesses

[SnarfQuest]

they often need to buy excessive unneeded licenses to be absolutely sure they're not only legal, but can easily prove it if raided.

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? I think Microsoft's BSA should be required to prove that the licenses are invalid, and not the other way around.

Re:OK if you're a poor student P2P'ing music, but.

[Anonymous Coward]

Erm.. this has nothing to do with paying for software.

If you don't have a license AND a receipt for every piece of software you have on each computer in your company/organization, you could be a BSA target and have to pay fines.

The requirement to keep licenses to prove where you purchased the software is what puts it over the top, the resources to do that causes the total cost of ownership even higher.

Seriously though

[nighty5]

we're congratulating a company for copying software from major vendors and they got caught, and they should be treated like some savour? I'm sick to death of hearing companies feel they are the victim when they COPY software without paying for it. You can bet your bottom dollar Ernie Ball wouldn't work for free by giving out guitars so why should a software company?

The fact is, they willingly copied software and got caught and they paid the consequences. Although it seems based on the article it was only 8% unauthorised, they only changed over when they were caught, if they were really supportive of open source they would of moved off their propriety systems long ago.

I work in IT, and I pay for software that I use, if I can't afford it I find something else - its no excuse to copy it.

Nothing to see here move along.

Re:Seriously though

[Anonymous Coward]

You can bet your bottom dollar Ernie Ball wouldn't work for free by giving out guitars They also don't try to charge over and over for zero-actual-cost copies of the one guitar they made five years ago. If they want to sell two guitars, they have to make two guitars.

Wake me up when software companies have to do the same thing. Until then, it's stupid to cry about people making copies without paying, since each extra copy costs them nothing. If I pirate MS Office, it's no worse from MS's perspective than if I just use OpenOffice instead - either way, they're not getting my money.

Re:Seriously though

[Technician]

I work in IT, and I pay for software that I use, if I can't afford it I find something else - its no excuse to copy it.

Do you have a copy of the reciept for every piece of software? That thumb drive that uses an encryption program... which is installed on the PC, where is the reciept for that $10 thumb drive? No reciept is a violation... Just ask the BSA or read the article. There is almost nobody in full compliance. My biggest violation is a lack of reciepts. All my copies of MS Office are in violation except the newest one simply because I haven't kept the reciepts.

These violations are being weeded out as I migrate to Ubuntu and dispose of the obsolete high liability software.

Re:Seriously though

[nighty5]

I do, but home users aren't their primary target I'd say. I think the BSA would bend more for home users but businesses make a living off software so they are considered more of a target. Years ago it was hard to track software licenses but these days its not hard too if you really want to. However I do believe companies deserve a chance to mend their ways and you'll probably find the 90k they were "fined" was equal to the software they used without a license. I could be wrong but I think you'll find BSA will only target large vendor software company products.

As a side note I use True Crypt on my USB drives - its free, cross platform, and is even more flexible than PGP Disk (which I used prior until my license expiring). http://www.truecrypt.org/.

Re:Seriously though

[Technician]

As a side note I use True Crypt on my USB drives - its free, cross platform

That is a fantastic point. The BSA is taking credit for a reduction in the percent of software piracy from it's high in the 1990's to it's current low level. The total amount pirated is "Quadrupled" simply because there is more software.

The biggie, is there are many more vendors in the software arena. The prices have come down, so affordable alternatives are easy to get. I don't need Photoshop. I can use Arcsoft which came bundled with my camera, or use The Gimp.

As the BSA pushes, the true price of software starts to show in not only the purchase price, but the liability. Then consumers start to make informed choices.

Re:Seriously though

[ratboy666]

Please...

The BSA does not accept a "proof of license" sticker. You MUST present a receipt for the software. If you go to a trade show, and accept a "free" copy of swagware (say, a copy of Windows) that does NOT have a receipt, you will be counted in violation.

Under THOSE rules, 8% is (translated) comletely in compliance.

[and yes, I do not accept that "free" software because it exposes my business to the BSA, and (reading the EULA fine print) at least one commercial software product put audits in! (possibly on my dime -- I threw the software out, because the terms were so bizarre)]

Re:Seriously though

[Jinjuku]

I keep receipts for all our licensed product. It's called a fire safe. You put in this code, it opens up, and in papers goes. It's amazing what technology is capable of these days. I also have a credit card trail.

I have worked at both Mac and PC consultancies. Going out to business to update or install new systems and they hand you a disk with a serial number with a wink and a nod. We all know what that is.

Software is pirated because it is easy to do so. Software is pirated because the chance of getting caught is slight. I temporarily admin'd at a graphic arts and design firm where I made the owner actually email me asking me to install Quark Express on WAY more machines than they had licensing for. I did this to C.M.A (cover my ass).

If you buy that whole naive business owner argument, well you may be just as naive.

Re:Seriously though

[Technician]

If you buy that whole naive business owner argument, well you may be just as naive.

I've worked at some small businesses where the collection of hardware wasn't documented. The software wasn't pirated, but would still fail a BSA audit. Often the software licensing (ClickWrap) is such to ensure you are out of compliance. The old machine dies, the software is re-installed on it's replacement in violation of the clickwrap, etc. We bought the software. We are prohibited of taking the part of a system and relocating it to it's replacement.

Often mentioned is the failure to scrub a passed down system. Even if you totaly wipe the old system, a hardware upgrade is forbidden by the software clickwrap. I have software that came bundled with a camera. I replaced the camera when it died. Does the software die because I no longer have kept the camera? (Arcsoft product)

It is easy to have software you bought complete with packaging and original disks and be in violation. This is WRONG.

Re:Seriously though

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what needs to be impressed with the judge. Just because you can't produce the receipt does NOT mean you didn't buy the software. And just because the BSA doesn't accept that while you have the original PC, original "Authentic Product" sticker, original CD, etc but believes you are in violation because you can't find the receipt - does not make you in violation in a legal sense.

For those "I pay for the software BSA fanboys", let's show you how it works:

You bought Office97. You buy the Office2000 upgrade. Then you buy Office2007 upgrade. You're legal right? Can you produce all three receipts? If you can't produce the receipt for the Office97 you bought 10 years ago - the BSA counts that as a violation. Most businesses only keep records of that detail for IRS purposes, and only about 7 years back. So despite you doing nothing legally wrong, they will still bust your business.

Re:Seriously though

[Anonymous Coward]

"My biggest violation is a lack of reciepts (sic)"

Not actually true. Unless the licence requires a recipt to be valid, you should be fine if you have paid for them.

Of course, if the BIA have a big legal fund and threaten to sue, and you can't easily prove that everything was purchased, you might think it was cheaper to settle than to pay legal fees. But that is just a tactical solution - you wouldn't actually be in violation. You would just be being hung out to dry by this country's iniquitous legal system.

Re:Seriously though

[Doctor Faustus]

The fact is, they willingly copied software and got caught and they paid the consequences. Although it seems based on the article it was only 8% unauthorised
Do you really think they intentionally pirated only 8% of their software? That's pretty obviously a combination of losing a few receipts and individual employees installing software on their own computers (quite possibly legally, but without registering receipts with IT -- I know I've done that).

Revenge Au Gratin

[Detritus]

The BSA is a useful tool for revenge against companies that treat their employees like shit. These are often the same companies that blatantly pirate business software, since they are willing to do anything, legal or illegal, to screw their employees, customers and suppliers out of a buck.

The IRS also has a tax informant reward program, which is useful if you know that your employer is cheating on their taxes.

Re:Revenge Au Gratin

[petermgreen]

The IRS also has a tax informant reward program, which is useful if you know that your employer is cheating on their taxes.
What if you don't know that they are cheating but decide to report them anyway on the hope that they made a small slip up somewhere for which you know they will get disproportionate punishmet?

Afaict in any company over a certain size it is virtually impossible to ensure that all software is licensed. People who need to get something done ASAP and are fed up with the beuracracy and/or cost to their budget in getting a legit copy will install pirate software to do it. Sure you can push out managed desktop images but that doesn't work for all types of user and even if you do force them on everyone some users of said image are likely to get themselves local admin somehow.

that is why companies live in fear of the BSA.

Old Story

[pilsner.urquell]

Been there, done that. There was once an operating system (and I use the term loosely) put out by Microsoft, Windows 3.1, and it was the last dime I gave William.

They've got the news outlets in on it too...

[JakiChan]

When I was looking at Yahoo news today I saw no less than 3 articles in the Technology section about the BSA. Seems like they're tricking the news services into running free scare-tactics PR for them.

Re:They've got the news outlets in on it too...

[Technician]

Seems like they're tricking the news services into running free scare-tactics PR for them.

Unfortunately for them, it is getting businesses into compliance. High risk high cost software is discontinued as a possible business buster as low risk software becomes good enough.

Missing reciepts for MS Office and Photoshop are high risk liabilities. Missing reciepts for The Gimp and Open Office is no problem.

There are several high profile companies using open source.
http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linux2.html
http://mtechit.com/linux-biz/ Click on each catagory for the list of companies.
As of 2003-03-18, there are 557 entries in this list.

AutoCad Substitute?

[meburke]

OK, there are adequate substitutes for Windows, Photoshop, and MSOffice (especially OxygenOffice), but it is real hard to find good OSS substitutes for Visio, AutoCad and MSProject. A few years ago, AutoCad was listed as the second most used application in the World. The OSS substitute would have to be absolutely awesome to compete with AutoCad. This may be one of the best-designed apps in existence, the tech support is pretty good, the legacy is humongous, and everyone is educated in it.

Now my needs are bit modest, so I get by with SketchUp, and Alibre, (although my versions are not free, they do offer free versions), but a major Engineering company might have a rough time finding an easy-to-use substitute.

Re:AutoCad Substitute?

[SCHecklerX]

For visio, you could use OODraw, with some templates. Or use cad software with the same. I'm aware of Dia, but I've used it a couple of times and wasn't overly impressed.

Re:AutoCad Substitute?

[jesterpilot]

AutoCad (AutoKut in Dutch) is NOT the #1 CAD program because it's so good. It was simply the first cheap CAD-program that ran on dos/windows. So it is used in many, many companies while gaining a reputation in designing lock-in formats. Everybody uses it, because everybody uses it. Autodesk is just like M$; crappy software and an unhealthy monopoly. Better, unix-based CAD programs have always existed.

Re:AutoCad Substitute?

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Obviously you are not a professional photographer, or graphic artist. There is absolutely no substitute for Photoshop. If you think Gimp is a substitute you dont use or know photoshop at the pro level.

Gimp has a long ways to go.

Re:AutoCad Substitute?

[Animats]

Well, there's IntelliCAD 2000. This was free; it's a Windows-based clone of AutoCAD 98. It's very like 2D AutoCAD. There are later, non-free versions. There's a consortium which maintains the base engine, and various products built on top of it.

IntelliCAD 2000 is amusing, because it replicates some of the features of AutoCAD from the DOS era, like having to explicitly refresh the drawing.

Re:AutoCad Substitute?

[meburke]

Actually, I do a lot of technical illustration and am very familiar with Photoshop. I have friends who are professional photographers (and I used to take pictures for the AP years ago), and I often help with the post-shooting production before doing adjunct technical illustration.

Until you know what you are doing in GIMP you will get the same lousy results you got when you were learning PS. GIMP might need a few more features, but I have no problems with it. (I have other rendering and graphics software. My LINUX and UNIX installations are far richer and more capable than Windows with Photoshop.) You can use GIMPshop to take you across the learning chasm. If you think GIMP is no substitute for Photoshop, you obviously don't use GIMP at the pro level.

Re:AutoCad Substitute?

[Anonymous Coward]

SGI

Not so simple.

[TheLink]

The problem I see is it's not just that. You don't just need money to pay for the software you use, you need money to pay to keep track of it for X years and all the other associated crap. And some of those license thingies are kinda grey or complicated - per server, per client, concurrent clients, users (this could be vague), concurrent users, host, CPU (socketted), CPU core, MHz etc. Not just that, they can change from year to year. IIRC Windows XP Home was previously not for multiprocessor systems, but when multicore x86 CPUs came out, Microsoft said they meant socketed CPUs.

"The BSA considers software pirated if a company can't produce a receipt for it, no matter how long ago it was purchased. Software boxes or certificates of authenticity are no help, because the BSA argues the software could have been obtained from an illegitimate source."

Does that mean even if you have Windows XP and MS Office certs stuck on the PC with a 1:1 cert:install mapping it doesn't count? What idiocy is that? I know lots of businesses will have difficulty retaining receipts and records longer than a few years. Might be in a box somewhere but nobody left in the company will know about it.

Whether the PC was stolen or not, if the cert+ key is real Microsoft etc already have got paid for it.

It could even be a gift, believe me people do donate software. I'm sure many churches and charitable organisations get such stuff. You don't always get receipts for that.

Thing is the BSA might have a different agenda from the companies it represents.

I heard the Microsoft boss in my country handled piracy cases differently - he told off his staff who apparently were going around taking people to court etc. Basically his opinion was these people were happy users of Microsoft software, all his staff needed to do was to convince them to license. Which shouldn't be too hard - "Hi, would you like to pay the $$$$$ per infringing copy (plus bosses risk imprisonment) or $$$ per licensed copy?". ;)

Instant sale. Don't even need to send them any fancy media or boxes. Don't even need to send people to help install and configure the software - they've already done all that work themselves.

Only send in the thugs if they refuse to license after you find out they are noncompliant.

Re:Not so simple.

[petermgreen]

IIRC Windows XP Home was previously not for multiprocessor systems, but when multicore x86 CPUs came out, Microsoft said they meant socketed CPUs.
Sure when ordinary home systems started coming with hyperthreading then multicore MS had to allow the home edition to run on them.

IIRC that was a technically enforced limitation not a license limitation though.

Re:Not so simple.

[azrider]

Thing is the BSA might have a different agenda from the companies it represents.

The article notes that the BSA keeps the fines, the individual software companies get nothing.

You bet that the BSA has a different agenda.

Re:Not so simple.

[virtue3]

I don't know, I think that's bullshit that a business couldn't come up with the receipt for their software licenses. At the very least, they could go back to their retailer and obtain another copy of the sales transaction. In all seriousness, this is an accounting issue and those guys should have every record of their stuff ever. Especially a major purchase of 10,000 or so licenses of windowze.

Re:Missing sales recipts = piracy

[Technician]

Over those years though I can't recount how many times a customer would need a windows re-install, or an office re-install, whatever. I'd ask for the original CD and they'd tell me "Don't you have a copy?"

At the same time, did you insist on a copy of the sales reciept?

The BSA is considering copies with certificates of authenticity as sketchy if they are missing the sales reciepts. At home, anything off warranty is missing the sales reciept. The news of the BSA audits is definately encouraging me to go 100% legit. I have a machine that came with Windows that was given to me brand new. I don't have a reciept. It is currently dual boot, but the next hard drive replacement won't include the bundled software.

The software license for some software is licensed for installation on only one PC. The license for some other software is licensed for any PC you or your family has, and may be freely copied and given away as long as you comply with the requirements of the license, such as providing a copy of the source code.

Guess which software license I prefer.

Linux users missed a chance...

[LingNoi]

Soon after, Microsoft sent other businesses in the region around Ball's a flyer offering discounts on software licenses, along with a reminder not to wind up like Ernie Ball.

Linux users could have sent flyers around the region, along with a reminder not to wind up like Ernie Ball. I bet the uptake would have been surprising.

Re:Linux users missed a chance...

[earthforce_1]

Maybe they would want to end up like him.

I read an interview with Ernie Ball after the raid. He DID switch to Red Hat Linux, and by his estimate saves $100K per year. He thanked microsoft for the money he is now saving.

Think about Vista and its slow take up

[SmallFurryCreature]

Can we be honest here, how many of us, even the linux users, try out MS latest OS just to see the new shiny? I am guilty of it but not with Vista. Why? I found no reliable way to pirate it. I am NOT going to pay for it. I don't 'want' it, I just want to see it.

Why should MS care? Because I am also that guy who knows computers and fixes things.

I fix XP, I told people to move to XP and other upgrades before simply because I was tired of dealing with ancient versions of windows that were even harder to maintain then recent releases.

The same ain't happening with Vista because I don't have any experience with it. ALl those 'regular' people who complain about Vista being too different, are they not REALLY complaining that the tech guy they know doesn't know how to fix it because they are still on XP?

All the techies I know stayed on XP, partly because they don't like Vista, but mostly because they build their own machines and so don't get their hands on a "free" Vista key with their new machines. Also many of them would sooner die then run a Vista Crippled Edition. Faced with the dilema of having to lay down enough money to buy a top of the line CPU or stay with XP, I stayed with XP.

This has removed from my circle of friends a lot of free tech support.

The UAC thingy (Cancel/Allow) sounds not that dis-similar to other Windows crap that everyone had disabled by their tech friend in previous windows releases, except this time, some of us techies just don't know how to do it because we haven't done it ourselves.

How many of you would have Vista installed IF it could be pirated easily? From my own small sampling I think MS has damaged its own locomotion appendage. How serious, that I don't know but it is something to consider.

Re:Think about Vista and its slow take up

[Anonymous Coward]

re: pirating Vista You're not trying very hard, are you? I had Ultimate downloaded, burned and up/running in about 2 hours. That's about how long the installation lasted on my system. I went back to Windows 2000 by wiping the Vista drive, removing it and reinstalling the original drive with Win2k on it.

Re:Think about Vista and its slow take up

[darthflo]

I fully agree to all the Vista problems you're citing here, except one: Vista is intended to be easily pirated if all you're going to do is take a few quick looks.
Vista is, IIRC, distributed in a one-DVD-fits-all (editions) way; what gets installed is determined by what product key you enter at setup. (Exceptions are two different DVDs for x86/x64 architectures. Not quite sure about volume licensed copies, but I think they ought to use the same DVDs, too.) The available choices include, apart from Home Business to Ultimate, an "unlicensed" 30-day trial with the feature range of an Ultimate edition. 30 days is, of course, not enough to use Vista on a long-term basis, but it surely suffices to take a quick glimpse at what it does, how it does that and how badly it sucks (my personal opinion).

Re:Think about Vista and its slow take up

[ricegf]

Can we be honest here, how many of us, even the linux users, try out MS latest OS just to see the new shiny?

Sure, I tried Vista... at Fry's. I was really disappointed, too. None of the windows burned up when I closed them. Not one.

Perhaps one day Vista will be ready for the desktop, but this is not that day.

Re:Think about Vista and its slow take up

[petermgreen]

volume license buisness and enterprise each have thier own media sets which install just one version.

Re:Think about Vista and its slow take up

[Anonymous Coward]

We have a volume license here at work. I still don't bother with Vista.

Listen 'ere my good man...

[Anonymous Coward]

Harness the power of 10.000 abacusses, try linux.

Not me.

[slashbart]

Well I don't. I don't care about Windows, and don't need earn money using Windows so I really don't.
I've got my Macs for shiny stuff, and my Linux boxes for programming and looking intelligent, so why should I care about Windows?

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Kawahee]

I'm relating this story to my local LUG. They deserve some respect for publicly denouncing MS

I don't know what kind of spin you're going to put on it, but a company was rightfully fined for using Microsoft software illegally. Yeah, they might have drawn the short straw for (what it sounds like from the article) accidently running a few too many copies of a piece of software, but what they were doing was illegal.

Total sympathy for Ball

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft used their company name to publicly shame them in its advertisements.

"Don't end up like Ernie Ball"

Of course, ending up running all FOSS isn't so bad.

AutoCAD substitute? Try CATIA...

[Panaqqa]

After all, if it's good enough to be Boeing's primary 3D CAD tool, it should work for autocad users. Not sure if it's available for Linux yet, but Sun's Solaris will run it.

Check it out here.

Re:AutoCAD substitute? Try CATIA...

[meburke]

I've used CATia and it works well, but it is not OSS. There is a free derivative out there that doesn't work worth a sh*t, but needs some more work.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Anonymous Coward]

And illegal does not mean wrong. In this case, the law is deeply wrong, so they were wrongfully fined. The law does not determine right and wrong. Copyright should be abolished. http://questioncopyright.org/

The thing is...

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is if you can't prove you have a license, it's the same thing as piracy.

If you bought a legit copy years ago and didn't save the box and/or receipt. Sorry Charlie, you're a pirate.

If you gave a secretary a hand-me-down PC and didn't bother wiping that old copy of Photoshop off the drive. Sorry Charlie, you're a pirate.

The point is you don't actually have to "pirate" software to be a pirate in the eyes of the BSA. It's up to you to prove you're not a pirate. Guilty till proven innocent.

Doesn't it just figure ...

[ScrewMaster]

that a group such as the BSA would model its own campaign upon an unsuccessful campaign waged by a similar organization? Well, unsuccessful in achieving its stated purpose, but very successful in extorting wads of cash.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[ricegf]

a company was rightfully fined for using Microsoft software illegally

No, a company was fined for not being able to prove they were not using Microsoft software illegally.

Although the EULA doesn't state they must provide a receipt for the software, or that the "Certificate of Authenticity" doesn't certify that the software is authentic (go figure), that is the standard to which Microsoft holds its customers on penalty of lawsuit or (more commonly) extortion.

I received two letters from the BSA in 2003, both warning me that I could be liable for "hundreds of thousands of dollars" if they audit my business and I am unable to prove that every copy of their member company's software was legally purchased. They helpfully offered, "Can your business afford that risk?"

Y'know, I couldn't. I switched to free-as-in-freedom software.

Re:The solution is simple - Not really

[Herschel Cohen]

Looking at a shelf next to my desk I see software I purchased and until recently I had a complete paper trail. Having learned I need not keep all my business records for tax purposes I have been shredding old receipts, etc that are too old to be of interest to the IRS. Now despite the fact that I have not run a Windows machine for business (Linux only here) since 2001 or 2002 and the software resides in only their respective boxes, I might be, now, technically in non-compliance. Why should I have to worry about rules that are more excessive than I need to follow for business, tax purposes?

old news but still

[phrostie]

on one hand the story of Ernie Ball is old news, on the other it's one that needs to not be forgotten.

Re:Available since 04-20-07

[Anonymous Coward]

http://keznews.com/2727_Vista_Activator_FF_2_1_2_1_2_Stable

Driver support

[tepples]

Once all of your applications are available on both Windows and Linux, "fairly major effort" above becomes "fairly trivial effort". The problem is not just applications; it is also hardware drivers. Drivers do not come for free because not all manufacturers of PC hardware cooperate with the free software community. Often, someone switching from Windows to Linux outside of a planned hardware upgrade has to repurchase much of the hardware in a PC in order to have hardware for which a freely available driver exists.

Re:Driver support

[ricegf]

Often...repurchase much of the hardware in a PC

I've loaded Linux onto literally hundreds of machines, and I'm quite confident you are overstating the problem, although certain hardware still lacks native drivers. (Of course, Windows video drivers work pretty well on Linux - I'm using one to type this. :-)

For older hardware, however, driver support in Linux is generally superior to Vista, and a little thought will show why this is inevitable. Manufacturers have all the wrong motivations to support older hardware on Vista - it represents lost sales. (That is, they can't sell a driver, but if they don't provide a driver, they may sell new hardware to the unfortunate new Vista user.) I've had several manufacturers tell me this bluntly, and encourage me to "upgrade" to their latest product. No discounts for "upgraders", though...

Meanwhile, older hardware tends to be reverse-engineered (if necessary) by open source enthusiasts or corporations with a vested interest in the success of Linux, and drivers are provided and improve constantly.

Thus, support for older hardware tends to improve over time with Linux, but to degrade over time with Windows.

The best example is my wife's aging Canon MP730.

• I had to Google it to find a way to configure the printer under Ubuntu 7.04; the scanner never worked at all. I got both working correctly under XP by first running the Canon-provided CD (and a lot of clicks).
• Under Ubuntu 7.10, both were automagically configured and worked perfectly without a single click; under Vista, neither worked (repeated "missing .inf" errors when I tried to manually configure it, and Googling that day turned up many similar complaints in various support forums).

So I believe it is Vista that has a larger driver problem than Linux, and that the problem gets worse for Windows and less severe for Linux with each new release of either OS.

Re:Driver support

[ajs318]

The problem is not just applications; it is also hardware drivers. Drivers do not come for free because not all manufacturers of PC hardware cooperate with the free software community. Often, someone switching from Windows to Linux outside of a planned hardware upgrade has to repurchase much of the hardware in a PC in order to have hardware for which a freely available driver exists.

Write to your Elected Representatives and demand a law that would oblige hardware manufacturers to release sufficient details that would allow a competent programmer to create a driver -- or if any such law exists already, that it be enforced.

Re:Driver support

[Cro Magnon]

The real problem is with NEW hardware. Linux usually works very well with 5 year old hardware, but sooner or later, I'll want to buy new stuff, and chances are good that Linux won't work with it yet.

Re:Driver support

[ricegf]

But the solution for this is so trivial I almost hate to mention it - check compatibility before you buy. You should do this with Mac and Windows Vista, too, by the way.

The REAL question is,

[BlackCobra43]

do the abacuses run Linux?

Re:The REAL question is,

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's called abaci over boxen.

Re:The REAL question is,

[robot_love]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of abacuses running Linux!

Re:The REAL question is,

[kimvette]

Yes, but you don't get any floating point support. Integer only. :(

Re:The REAL question is,

[Anonymous Coward]

Only in Soviet Russia.

Re:The REAL question is,

[cayenne8]

"do the abacuses run Linux?"

Yes they do, but, last time I tried re-rolling my Kernel...I sprained my finger.

Re:The REAL question is,

[innocent_white_lamb]

do the abacuses run Linux?
 
I keep an abacus on the shelf with my ready-to-hand reference books, right beside my Linux computer. Does that count?
 
No joke. I use my abacus to do binary arithmetic, counting, and other calculations. Really. It makes it easy to visualize the operations and makes errors a bit more obvious than trying to figure it out in my head or by using a calculator.
 
I used to have a tiny little abacus, but I got a really nice 13-rod Chinese abacus last year as a gift and love it.

Re:The REAL question is,

[davidsyes]

"Yes, but you don't get any floating point support. Integer only..."

Huh? Just (add) throw one in the water. (May need salt for extra buoyancy...) It'll float. Now, you have floating point answers....

Re:The REAL question is,

[Anonymous Coward]

No the real question is do the abacuses run Win...oerm no
A billion monkeys working for a billion years on a billion abacuses...

We need a Monopoly Free Movement

[mlwmohawk]

It seems to all boil down to software copyright cartels using civil laws and "lock-in" to create monopoly prisons from which it is nearly impossible to extricate yourself.

If we *truly* want to be free of these criminal organizations we need to create viable competition against them. OpenOffice is a good start, FireFox, etc.

Gimp needs improvement to even be mentioned with Photoshop, that being said, most people who use Photoshop could use Gimp if its UI were improved and features be more intuitive.

There is a REAL demand for an Autocad competitor.

How should companies protect their IP rights?

[walterbyrd]

I don't like the MAFFIAA tactics. But, piracy really isn't fair either. Can somebody suggest a better way for software/music/movie companies to protect their rights?

Re:How should companies protect their IP rights?

[Todd Knarr]

The problem is, many of these companies aren't pirates. They've bought more licenses than they have running copies of the software. They just can't meet the BSA's technical requirements (which, BTW, go beyond what the law requires). Can you cough up the receipt for every copy of Windows you run? Not the COA, the actual physical receipt that lists Windows as a line item and has your name at the top. And no, a receipt for hardware that came with Windows isn't good enough, not unless it has a separate line on it listing what was paid for Windows. Nor is it any good if the name on the receipt doesn't match the name of the person or company running Windows, which happens especially in small-to-medium companies when a needed machine gets bought by someone in IT using a company credit card in their name or using their own credit card after getting a check cut for it. In all of those cases you're a pirate by the BSA's rules, even though you've paid for your copy of Windows and the law would consider you clear if you wanted to spend the time and money fighting it in court.

BSA now stands for

[put_the_cat_out]

Ball-busting Software Alliance

I'd comment on the article...

[Blakey Rat]

I'd comment on the article, but there is no article, just two ads. Brilliant. Half the comments here are talking about how this story is from 2002, half are making fun of the abacus comment, and the original article doesn't exist!

Pure class.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[rbochan]

I don't know what kind of spin you're going to put on it, but a company was rightfully fined for using Microsoft software illegally. Yeah, they might have drawn the short straw for (what it sounds like from the article) accidently running a few too many copies of a piece of software, but what they were doing was illegal.

If you actually read into the matter more thoroughly, you'll find out that they were turned in by a disgruntled former employee. That former employee was responsible for maintaining their license compliance and info.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[CastrTroy]

But Linux could not exist in it's current form without copyright. Without copyright, it would basically have a license more like BSD, which last I checked wasn't doing quite as well as Linux on the popularity front, or on the functionality part. Granted BSD is good for what it does, but there are many areas where it is lacking. Even more so than Linux.

No receipt = BSA considers software pirated?

[Joe The Dragon]

The BSA considers software pirated if a company can't produce a receipt for it, no matter how long ago it was purchased. Software boxes or certificates of authenticity are no help.
And some times the certificates of authenticity or the key on your systems case is the only receipt. What about software / hardware makes you send in the receipt for rebate or warranty?

What even happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Re:No receipt = BSA considers software pirated?

[ShadowsHawk]

Correction. Innocent until they find a legal way to extort money from you.

Re:No receipt = BSA considers software pirated?

[Anonymous Coward]

What even happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is Amerika. We don't do that anymore.

Microtek ScanMaker 4850

[tepples]

I'm quite confident you are overstating the problem, although certain hardware still lacks native drivers. (Of course, Windows video drivers work pretty well on Linux - I'm using one to type this. :-) Really? I knew about the NDIS wrapper to use Windows network card drivers on Linux, but I had never read about using Windows 2D accelerated video drivers on Linux. If I want to learn more, what keywords for Google will return more relevant results than the first two pages of results from this query?

Meanwhile, older hardware tends to be reverse-engineered (if necessary) by open source enthusiasts or corporations with a vested interest in the success of Linux, and drivers are provided and improve constantly. Is there some way I could donate money to SANE and earmark my donation for the years-old Microtek ScanMaker 4850, a USB flatbed scanner that's still listed as unsupported, just like a lot of the other Microtek scanners with four-digit model numbers? Or should I just consider the purchase of a new scanner as part of the license fee for using Linux?

Thus, support for older hardware tends to improve over time with Linux, but to degrade over time with Windows. If your experience matches this tendency, good for you. But if my experience does not, what should I do?

So I believe it is Vista that has a larger driver problem than Linux But Windows XP still has better support than Linux for at least one piece of hardware in my system.

Re:Microtek ScanMaker 4850

[ricegf]

I had never read about using Windows 2D accelerated video drivers on Linux

Well, you read it here first. Literally. I'm using the restricted (but native) NVIDIA driver, not the Windows driver. I'd pay more attention to these things if Ubuntu would stop setting things up for me automatically. :-/

Sorry, my bad.

Microtek ScanMaker 4850

If I woke up in your shoes, I would:

• Email Microtek and ask them to support Linux by making the technical info available.
• Look around for other owners, ask what they are doing, and try to identify someone who can write the driver for you all (assuming the info is available - I suspect it's not, or the driver would already exist).
• Buy a different scanner that's well-supported.

That's what I would do, but of course I already have a strong preference for Linux after 7 years of increasing use. If you have a large investment in the 4850, either financially, emotionally, or expertise..lly (?), it's probably worth staying with Windows until the thing wears out - or a newer model catches your eye.

Next time you buy a scanner, though, it might be worth checking into broad support - at least for the three major platforms.

If your experience matches this tendency, good for you. But if my experience does not, what should I do?

Keep using Windows XP, of course. If you like it, stick with it. I know people still using Windows 2000 (and at least one on 98), simply because it works for what they do.

My ideal world isn't 100% Ubuntu - it's more like 30% Linux (with several strong distributions to choose among), 30% Mac, 30% Windows and 10% Other. Well, maybe a little less Windows. ;-) I dislike monopolies and the power they give to big corporations. XP isn't all that bad, it's the attitude of the sole supplier that really annoys me. Vista may be that bad, but I've yet to be forced to use it for a long enough period to be sure. Linux, on the other hand, works really well - for me.

Sorry if I sounded too evangelical. I'm just stating what works for me, and YMMV (and apparently does). But I've converted - uh, I mean, gently convinced :-) - quite a few people to give Linux a shot. I hope one day it's the best answer for you, too.

Re:Microtek ScanMaker 4850

[tepples]

Email Microtek and ask them to support Linux by making the technical info available. If I send an e-mail to Microtek and get no response, how long should I wait before sending another copy of the e-mail?

Buy a different scanner that's well-supported. Or I could buy a different operating system that diverse hardware supports well, or stick with the one I have (Windows XP). The mantra used to be "Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing"; now it's "Linux is only free if you're willing to re-buy or do without a significant chunk of your computer."

Re:Microtek ScanMaker 4850

[ricegf]

Linux is only free if you're willing to re-buy or do without a significant chunk of your computer.

40 million people (give or take) haven't experienced that problem to a sufficient extent to avoid upgrading to Linux-oriented FOSS. You have (thus far). But if you're like most people, you'll want to (or have to) replace your current machine(s) and peripheral cloud over the next few years, and now would be a reasonable time to evaluate your options, choose whether you want to be free or vendor-locked in the future, and make purchases that move you in the desired direction. That's what smart people do.

If you like Windows, by all means, run Windows. Carefully buy Windows-only hardware, if it floats your boat. Welcome the BSA's audit team with milk and cookies, and with checkbook standing by in case you've lost a receipt in the past 5 years. Just skip all of this ridiculous FUD based on a scanner you happen to have that is only supported on a single platform.

GPL restricts distribution only

[CustomDesigned]

While the GPL licenses are some of the more complex in OSS, the provisions affect distribution, not use. Mr. Ball can *use* GPL stuff all he wants without worrying about licensing issues. It is only when he develops the Ball Instrument Manufacturing accounting package based on GPL software and wants to distribute it that he has to be careful.

DUPE!!

[John Straffin]

Ernie Ball - Model For Open-Source Transition?, from August 21, 2003. Is there a record for longest time between a dupe and the original story? Also, please note that the date of the above story is four years old, and TFA states that Ernie was very happy "since jettisoning all of Microsoft products three years ago". The Ernie Ball's story, while very interesting, happened seven years ago.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[iminplaya]

No, without copyright, it would basically have a license more like public domain. Which is where all this stuff belongs.

New Content for Buisness???

[Anonymous Coward]

BSA yells "LFM Eric Ball!"

'dramatic music with announcer'
"In the ashen wastelands of Ernie Ball, his fortress awaits...all NEW items...all NEW challenges...all NEW bosses...so grab your abacus and join the raid in WORLD OF WARCRAFT: The Eric Ball Chronicles..." /sarcasm

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[iminplaya]

...if they audit my business...

If they want to audit your business, make them get a warrant. Why is anybody letting these people in the door? At the same time a nice big crackdown on copyright violators might provoke a big enough public reaction as to actually make it an election issue, but I'm not really counting on that. Though one can hope.

Holy Shit...Old News

[db32]

Ok...so the Ernie Ball thing is really only a footnote in the actual article as most of the article is actually current but damnit, Ernie Ball switched 4-5 YEARS ago. This is not news. Now if we all hop in our time machine then the summary will actually be relevant, but for fucks sake this news is over 4 years old. http://www.news.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html Notice the published in 2003, and then notice further the part where it explains that this is 1 year after the fact interview.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Shakrai]

If they want to audit your business, make them get a warrant

That's what I don't understand either and perhaps somebody could explain it to me. How the hell do they gain access to all of your systems if you refuse to let them in? Are they going to sue you and force you to turn it all over in discovery?

Has anybody tried to fight them on a legal front? It would seem to me that just by showing up to court (even if pro say) and answering their motions you could drag out the discovery process for months. Months that you could use to find any out of compliance software and fix it -- or better yet, switch to OSS if that's an option for your business.

Let's use BSA

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's go send some big ass company an open letter that switching to a Free operating system would be a good idea. Then sic the BSA goonies onto them say in 3 months. Repeat ad nauseaum.

I'm pretty sure that they're good at digging up dirt. So they'll basically almost always score. I think this would make everybody happy. The slime the BSA represents and the Free software community.

BSA Tip Line has existed for over a decade

[bgalbrecht]

Fifteen years ago a company I worked for got hit with a BSA audit after a call to their tip line. Our management was not sure, but believed it was in retaliation for firing two guys. I suspect the BSA gets most of their tips from disgruntled former employees.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[iminplaya]

...switch to OSS if that's an option for your business.

The BSA is watching closely. It the switch becomes massive enough, they'll back off quietly. Going after piracy is biting the hand that feeds them, and they all know it.

Work out the rights you need

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone is using the software once and they've paid for it, do you NEED any more rights? No. Do you need the right to restrict how it is used? No.

The next stage is to work out how to tell your customers how to stay in license. The BSA consider not having the receipt as proof of non-compliance. It aint in any of the documentation with the software, though.

Re:Work out the rights you need

[walterbyrd]

>>If someone is using the software once and they've paid for it, do you NEED any more rights?

But what if they didn't pay for it? Would you suggest a more sane audit process, or no audit proces at all?

Swearing off Microsoft... Again?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I read an article about 6 years ago on ernie ball swearing off microsoft. The CEO talked about how he had a bunch of diskless workstations running to a linux server. He spoke specifically about open office integration with other businesses...

How many times will Ernie Ball have to swear off MS products to actually mean it?

Boy Scouts of America?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Who new they were such slimy, corporate quislings.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[geminidomino]

Ignoring whether or not the law in question makes the BSA "right" or simply "in the advantaged position", it should be pointed out that Ball was more than just fined. They were made an example of, insulted, and humiliated by the "warning" letters.

That would piss me off, too. Unfortunately, I already went pure OSS on solely technical merits. :P

LOLz, Lunix Doood!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Enraged, CEO Sterling Ball vowed never to use Microsoft software again, even if 'we have to buy 10,000 abacuses.

But... isn't that the problem?

If Sterling would have used the 10,000 abacuses in the first place (we are assuming he would pay for them, rather than steal them), then he wouldn't have been whacked with a $90,000 settlement for stealing Microsoft's products.

Typical conservative criminal mindset: he doesn't regret being a criminal, he regrets being caught.

BTW, as for using teh Lunix: as China (and the rest of the world) already shows us, people would rather steal Windows than use Lunix. There's a reason Lunix can't even exceed the install base of Windows 2000, and barely even beats Windows 98.

Re:LOLz, Lunix Doood!!

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a reason Lunix can't even exceed the install base of Windows 2000, and barely even beats Windows 98. Yes - ignorance.

(to clarify: it's not ignorant to run Windows, but many people are unaware that you don't have to.)

Re:LOLz, Lunix Doood!!

[toadlife]

Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

Re:LOLz, Lunix Doood!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please go troll elsewhere.

Re:LOLz, Lunix Doood!!

[Rakarra]

Really... do you think you're being clever here?

not that there's anything wrong with that

[Scrameustache]

START SLIDING FUCKING NOBS ACROSS STICKS. They have clubs downtown where men do that every weekend...

RIP Ernie Ball

[Anonymous Coward]

"Seriously, this is old."

Worse then that, it's so old the poor guy's dead!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Ball

Apparently, he died mysteriously of a chair throw to the head.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Anonymous Coward]

indeed. but the pro-piracy idiots on here will grasp at any straw to make it seem like the thieves are the fucking victims. as usual.

Receipts

[sexconker]

You want to know how most businesses would look up receipts?
They'd call Dell.
They'd say "I need a copy of my invoice for an order I made several years ago."

All you need is your name and address.
Or a service tag / serial number of any of the machines you bought.

If you're running a business and you can't keep track of your receipts, I wouldn't put much faith in your business.
Demanding receipts as the only form of proof does seem a little harsh, but it is fairly common practice.

Re: do they run linux?

[http]

No, they run NetBSD.

More importantly

[roystgnr]

How many BogoMIPS do they get?

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[jedidiah]

It is not "pro piracy" to expect that norms of American jursiprudence
be adhered to where the punishment fits the crime and intent is a part
of the consideration.

        You are attempting to conflate genuine thieves with the merely careless.

        Also, public humiliation is no longer considered a valid form of
punishment in this country. It hasn't been for a long time. We're a
long way from Salem.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[nsayer]

If they want to audit your business, make them get a warrant

That's what I don't understand either and perhaps somebody could explain it to me. How the hell do they gain access to all of your systems if you refuse to let them in? Are they going to sue you and force you to turn it all over in discovery?

Yes.

Has anybody tried to fight them on a legal front? It would seem to me that just by showing up to court (even if pro say) and answering their motions you could drag out the discovery process for months. Months that you could use to find any out of compliance software and fix it -- or better yet, switch to OSS if that's an option for your business.

1. Switching at that point would not matter if they found out through discovery that you previously were not in compliance.

2. Being a pro-se defendant is time consuming, and time is money in business. It would probably be cheaper (both in terms of time and, of course, effectiveness) to hire competent council, at which point it's likely that time is not your ally - certainly when compared to the plaintiff.

That's a good line..

[msimm]

obsolete high liability software.

Re:That's a good line..

[Technician]

obsolete high liability software.

Any software that can drain the entire year's profits of a company in one shot is Obsolete and High Liability.

Any questions?

Familiar business model...

[tbg58]

The basic pitch begins like this: Nice business you got here... it'd be a shame if something happened to it. Works for other organizations than the BSA.

Sarbanes-Oxley + BSA vs the environment?

[argent]

"BSA audits zing companies for software that came with used computers they bought to save money. The BSA considers software pirated if a company can't produce a receipt for it, no matter how long ago it was purchased. Software boxes or certificates of authenticity are no help, because the BSA argues the software could have been obtained from an illegitimate source."

The most cost-effective way to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley is to discard records across the board after the required retention period. This means that the receipts for anything purchased more than 5 years ago are *gone*, and that includes the original receipts for used computers. This policy means that instead of reusing older computers you pretty much have to trash them after this time, unless you buy new software for them or install free UNIX.

Which is all well and good for the BSA's customers, but the environmental costs of manufacturing and disposal don't come out of their pocket.

Re:Missing sales recipts = piracy

[ErikZ]

What if you didn't buy it?

I did a handwriting test for MS in exchange for software. I chose office 2007.

I have no receipt, I use it for my home business. I'm in violation of the BSA.

Re:OK if you're a poor student P2P'ing music, but.

[Arykor]

If you don't have the money to pay for the software your business use, you shouldn't use the software in the first place.

That isn't the case in the examples from TFA. The CEO for one of the companies mentioned, Ernie Ball, gave an interview to cnet http://www.news.com/2008-1082-5065859.html and mentioned that it was 8% of their 72 PCs. Figure 6 engineers got new PCs, and their old ones were passed down to someone doing clerical work without being wiped. When visio was put on the 6 new PCs it ended up being a $90,000 mistake, and it wasn't even being used on the old PCs.

Any judges ever get wise to this?

[davidwr]

[BSA starts suit against company, submits evidence to a judge, and during the discovery period requests complete documentation of all software being run on company systems, along with licenses and date of purchase. If company fails to provide, BSA files for a motion to compel or some such legal mumbo-jumbo that basically gives the BSA the judge-approved legal right to take apart every computer and really ruin their day.] Any judges ever get wise to the fact that disgruntled employees sometimes lie, and that lack of proper record-keeping does not indicate lack of purchase?

I would love to see a judge tell the BSA:

OK, BSA, who exactly is your witness? Please have him fill out a sworn statement outlining each and every instance of infringement you plan on suing over and exactly how the infringement occurred. I will have a special master investigate. Unless I allow the suit to go forward you will not see the results of the investigation. If he is telling the truth I will let the suit proceed. If he is lying I will charge him with criminal perjury, fine you for bringing a frivolous suit, and I'll make sure the news media find out you tried to use the courts to screw over an innocent company. If I can't tell if he is telling the truth or lying I will dismiss the case without prejudice.

Re:Any judges ever get wise to this?

[Bios_Hakr]

I agree that the witness should have to testify, under oath, about the act. However, the BSA shouldn't be held accountable for frivolous suits. They took the witness at his word.

If the Judge required a third party to investigate, that might work better. They can look for the infringement that the witness testified about. If it's there, a full audit.

When it comes to the audits, it's really hard to pass these. Really hard. You have to have original boxes *with* UPC still intact. You have to have the original store receipt. You have to have the original discs too. Site licenses make it a bit easier, but they still scan the PCs for hints of shareware being mis-used.

This brings to mind...

[Azuma Hazuki]

...something from the infamous /b/ actually. Every time I see the BSA, RIAA, etc, do something like this, it reminds me of that picture of the Beast from Beauty and the Beast with a gigantic evil grin on his face and the caption "DO IT FAGGOT" on it. I hope these people crack down on piracy so hard no one wants to use their shitty software anymore. Piracy is the only reason a lot of people, even businesses, use a lot of expensive stuff in the first place. What home user has $700 for photoshop anyway? That could be more expensive than his computer these days.

I'm compiling Gentoo on it right now.

[DanielJosphXhan]

It's going to take about 34 years, but on the upside, I'll have very muscular fingers.

QCad for 2D, BRL-CAD for 3D

[dbc]

I use QCad extensively for 2D work. BRL-CAD is one of the oldest open source programs around -- dates from the 1970's -- and drives about any 3D file format you can imagine.

Terrorism As a Business Plan

[YetAnotherBob]

The response that the companies behind BSA will be strongly avoided is true. When enough people have been burned, the word will spread and those Companies will loose a lot of business due to "piracy" "prevention".

The truth is that fear based abusive businesses don't have a good future. Period. Microsoft and Autodesk are the two worst offenders. I knew of a business in New York that had an audit from BSA. It cost them $750K. The software in question was loaded on their network by the employee who turned them in. (Logs showed who did it.) days before he left. He had found out he was being fired. None of that mattered. To top it all off, the software had been legally purchased by the company, but that didn't matter. (And no, I didn't work there. Just knew a couple of people who did.)

The BSA approach to liscensing costs more than the software they 'protect' does. Having bought the software and registered it is no defense. When that really gets out, then many more businesses will realize, like Ball did that it's just a trap. A big con game. Realization is the first step to eliminating it. Let BSA style 'liscense management' factor into TCO calculations, and the outcome will change completely.

Good for you Ernie Ball!!

[jskline]

Good for you Ernie Ball!! I will continue to buy your strings and probably even more as they are fabulous. I'll have to look at your catalog soon as I'm in the market for another bass too!!

Do you know how they get your name?

[PhunkySchtuff]

Do you know how the BSA get your name?

Other than being turned in by someone, if you've ever purchased software, and actually registered it - the software companies give the BSAA a list of these people. Otherwise, how on earth do they even know you exist?

Once you've registered some software, you're on their radar - if you're using one piece of legitimate software, surely it stands to reason that you'll be using more pirated software - in their eyes at least.

And in this case ...

[wsanders]

BSA: "According to what we found, it appears you're liable for tens of millions of dollars of damages according to current copyright fines."
Company: "GTFO"
BSA: "OK but if you fork over $90,000 on top of paying our legal bills and purchasing licenses for all that software we discovered, and you admit no wrongdoing, and you also agree to annual audits from here on, you won't regret it."
Company: "GTFO!"
BSA: "Are you sure you want us to GTFO?"
Company: "GTFO!"
BSA: "And just how shall we GTFO?"
Company: "GTFO!"

At this point the golden rule of law enforcement kicks in: The Law will always be a bigger asshole than you can. They have years of training and professional experience.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Rakarra]

Also, public humiliation is no longer considered a valid form of punishment in this country. It hasn't been for a long time. We're a long way from Salem.

Besides, public humiliation really only works when the public is disgusted by the crime committed. They can rally against that. But when the accused is guilty of losing a receipt? Or is accused of a crime committed by the informant who collects the reward? It's a bit tougher to get public distaste built from that, no matter how you try to spin the accused as "thieves."

Argh, Noobs...

[Anonymous Coward]

Abacus is a new distro, dude! keep up with the times.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[enjerth]

If you actually read into the matter more thoroughly, you'll find out that they were turned in by a disgruntled former employee. That former employee was responsible for maintaining their license compliance and info. What a great scheme! After you're fired for failing to provide the company with adequate records of it's software licenses, tattle on them and collect the reward!

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Kalriath]

No, it's not where this stuff belongs. Anybody who thinks that is just trying to rationalise piracy (no, it's not stealing. you're right there).

Your idea basically equates to:
* Employers should not pay employees, they should work for free.
* Anybody should be able to walk into your house and read your mail. Oh, and your email too. Oh yeah, and listen in to your phone calls.
* A person should be able to pick up a book, then photocopy 10,000 copies and give them away free. The author doesn't need to get paid, right? Copyright is EVIL!
* A person should be able to buy a music CD, copy it 10,000 times, and give it away free. The artist doesn't need to get paid, right? Copyright is EVIL!
* A person should be able to buy a software CD, copy it 10,000 time, and give it away free. The developer doesn't need to get paid, right? Copyright is EVIL!

That QuestionCopyright site is a load of bollocks. They have the right idea (the current implementation sucks) but think the only answer is to abolish it entirely. No, it would be better if:

* Something made by a person loses protection when they die, if they relinquish it, or upon the author's ending of commercial distribution.
* Something made by a company loses protection when they end commercial distribution.

Think of it simply, that'd result in copyrights on a given "thing" expiring the moment the author has decided they don't want to make any money off it anymore (so why should they retain the right to take people to court for "pirating" something there's no other way to get?)

Long before Ernie Ball...

[Whuffo]

I purchased a copy of Windows 386 - and after trying for weeks to make it work tried to return it for a refund. Since then, MS has about as good a chance of me buying anything from them as I have of them actually refunding my purchase price on that useless product.

That's what they keep trying to ignore; the people like me who they've screwed over the years. It doesn't matter how much advertising they buy and how sweetly they sing their own praises - I'm still waiting for that refund. And I'm not ashamed to tell any and every one I can about how they took my money and gave me NOTHING USEFUL.

So, Bill - how do you sleep at night? You can scream all you want about people taking your product and using it for free - but until you deal fairly with all the people who have given you money and didn't get what they paid for your claim to the "high ground" rings falsely. You're just a thief and a fraud and all your bazillion dollars doesn't change that one little bit.

Sheesh, I try to be reasonable in my postings but for Mr. Gates what I really want to do is offer him a hearty "Fuck You!"

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[iminplaya]

You clearly don't understand the real intent of copyright, which is censorship and the protection of vested industries. And obviously you don't understand how we all build on previous works. You don't understand the impediment to progress that copyrights and patents represent. You don't understand that progress comes from the spreading and sharing of knowledge, not from hoarding and speculation caused by your IP law. It is the ultimate of selfishness to withhold knowledge for personal advantage over others. But that's what your economy is about...me me me.

Your idea basically equates to:...

Nothing but inane bullpuckey. It's been shown countless times that everybody will get paid without copyright. I'll make it simple for you. They will get paid just like me, for performance of work. They can make a contract and receive compensation according to that contract. And I guess I have repeat this for your sake. If I fix your car then I want mileage royalties. I could retire in 5 years.

...but think the only answer is to abolish it entirely.

Because that is the only correct answer, but even I can accept the return of its original duration of 17 years as a temporary compromise. Anything older than that would and should lose their privileges NOW. Just so you know, copyright is a government granted privilege(for the above stated reasons), NOT any kind of natural right. You don't own, or have a right to restrict the replication and distribution of revealed knowledge any more than you own the smoke coming out of your chimney. The real greed and deprivation come from those who claim that they do.

Re:How about just KEEPING GOOD RECORDS?

[HiThere]

I don't even have records of my own software, and I'm a single person.

I've never illicitly acquired a piece of software, but proving that would be impossible. Fortunately, I switched to Linux around a decade ago. This is a much more efficient way to handle the problem: eliminate it.

P.S.: I seriously doubt that you or your employer have sufficiently good records to stave off the BSA. I've heard stories.

P.P.S.: I heard a story awhile back about a company that lost a Netware server. (I said this was awhile back.) They knew it was still in the building, because it was still running and serving files. Eventually they had to tear down a wall to recover it. Somebody had built up a wall around the running server. (The news story never did say if they ever found out who done it.) Novell used to use this story in their advertising to show how much more stable their systems were thant he competition...and it was true, as long as they were running. I think this was back in the 90's, but it might have been earlier.

In other words: You don't know what you're talking about. Even top secret material walks in and out the door, and that's with armed guards at multiple checkpoints.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[iminplaya]

Are they going to sue you and force you to turn it all over in discovery?

Yes.

Since we seem to be privatizing our government, it has become time to apply the constitution to non-government entities. We most certainly should not permit these kinds of end-runs around our rights. But for now, don't use BSA software. Just like you shouldn't buy ??AA entertainment.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[tsm_sf]

Considering the low price of a Slashdot subscription, and the number of posts you've made over the years, your sig makes you look like an ass. Please pay for the software you use.

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Yer Mom]

My reading of the story was that the thing that really pissed them off wasn't getting caught and fined, but MS using their name in a leaflet campaign. I'm sure if someone broke into my house, I wouldn't be allowed to put posters all over the area saying "X is a thieving scumbag", so why should MS be allowed to do it? And why should they expect the person concerned would want to give them one cent more afterwards?

Oh, right, it's MS (or any large company, really.) They can't handle the concept of a universe where somebody doesn't use their stuff. Silly me.

Ernie Ball is a tool, reason: inside

[QuantumPhysicz]

Enraged, CEO Sterling Ball vowed never to use Microsoft software again, even if 'we have to buy 10,000 abacuses.' Maybe he'll like if people stole 10,000 of his guitar strings. The guy has no concept of paying for others work. This article is nothing more then meaningless drivel, and a popular thread, because the majority of the users are use the sarcastic approach of: Linux 4 LYf3 Yo! The whole "shtick" of the linux crowd, being: Anti Microsoft anything, even if it means pirated software that engineers spend thousands of hours creating. Sorry, but this thread is flawed from the start, as is the article.

Re:Ernie Ball is a tool, reason: inside

[boxxertrumps]

You are forgetting that less than a tenth of the software was pirated, as had been said a few times.

Re:Ernie Ball is a tool, reason: inside

[QuantumPhysicz]

Does that make stealing 10% still legal?

What if you had a product inventory that was worth $100 million, and the total was 100 products.

what is 10% of your inventory was pirated, you just lost $10million dollars.

Why do people think software theft is legitimate, evne if it is a small amount. People actually put in hours, developing the software to pay for bills, take care of their family.

This being said, I pirate software/music/movies with giganews, the ultimate piracy tool :)

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Kalriath]

You clearly don't understand the real intent of copyright, which is censorship and the protection of vested industries. And obviously you don't understand how we all build on previous works. You don't understand the impediment to progress that copyrights and patents represent. You don't understand that progress comes from the spreading and sharing of knowledge, not from hoarding and speculation caused by your IP law. It is the ultimate of selfishness to withhold knowledge for personal advantage over others. But that's what your economy is about...me me me. Except that as I don't produce anything that could actually get me money as a result of copyright, I can't see how my economy is all "me me me". It's all about "making sure people who do work get paid", which is significantly different. You're actually the one displaying the "me me me" mentality, as your whole argument hinges on you wanting to get stuff for free.

The intent of copyright is to encourage people to actually produce artistic works (no comments about how half the crap these days is far from artistic, I KNOW) by making sure they can actually get paid for it. The abuse of it is another matter entirely and does not demonstrate a failure in copyright at all, rather a failure in government.

Your idea basically equates to:...

Nothing but inane bullpuckey. It's been shown countless times that everybody will get paid without copyright. I'll make it simple for you. They will get paid just like me, for performance of work. They can make a contract and receive compensation according to that contract. And I guess I have repeat this for your sake. If I fix your car then I want mileage royalties. I could retire in 5 years. Still a stupid argument from you. Yes, because you can perform a book. Since you can't, you're saying book writers should never get paid? And while we're at it, let's not pay people for actually writing songs or movies. Scriptwriters and songwriters don't deserve money! They should PERFORM it if they want money! Whatever. If you still hold to your stupid "dump copyright" idea, you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

And exactly when has it been proven that anyone can get paid without copyright? Try not to dig too far back in the past, anything past 1900 is a completely different beast entirely and can hardly be considered part of anything.

...but think the only answer is to abolish it entirely.

Because that is the only correct answer, but even I can accept the return of its original duration of 17 years as a temporary compromise. Anything older than that would and should lose their privileges NOW. Just so you know, copyright is a government granted privilege(for the above stated reasons), NOT any kind of natural right. You don't own, or have a right to restrict the replication and distribution of revealed knowledge any more than you own the smoke coming out of your chimney. The real greed and deprivation come from those who claim that they do. Uh, no, it's the only incorrect answer. The problem is not with the framework, it's with the government and industry's changes to it. Reverse those and you've got yourself the fairly decently working framework that worked for decades.

Of course, you really couldn't accept the 17 years return at all. In reality, you're grasping at any excuse that will let you declare copyright as "immoral" or whatever so you can justify to yourself your piracy. If it was returned to 17 years, you'd continue to pirate and claim that only abolition is acceptable, though you might accept a cut down to 5 years.

No wonder their strings feel so nice to play!

[stuffduff]

I have always liked Ernie Ball Super Slinky, but about that time the Power Slinky came out. Now we know why they feel so good - no metaphysical contamination with bad vibes from Microsoft! ;^)

Why let the BSA in your door?

[RareButSeriousSideEf]

That's the million dollar question in my head too.

Obviously, the BSA has enough leverage to extract / extort some hefty sums of cash from some non-insignificant business entities.

I can't imagine the conversation going like:

AUDITOR ON DOORSTEP:
Hi! I'm from the BSA, and I'm here to follow up on an unsubstantiated allegation by a disgruntled ex-employee of yours.
ALLEGED INFRINGER:
Well why didn't you just say so! Yes, by all means come in. Can I get you something to drink?
AUDITOR ON DOORSTEP:
Yes, thank you, I'll have some 21-year old scotch if you don't mind. Now then, on to business... we hear that you didn't buy client licenses for 5 of your 800 employees' workstations
ALLEGED INFRINGER:
Well Tony's sure pretty conscientious about that sort of thing, but just in case he made a mistake, why don't you poke around our systems a bit? I'll have IT security give you domain admin privileges
AUDITOR ON DOORSTEP:
Thanks so much. Could I also get some paper for the printer, and use your notary public to certify my printouts' dates & times before I leave?

So how does this go down? Has anyone here been forced or coerced to let a BSA auditor in the door? If so, how?

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[iminplaya]

Yes, because you can perform a book.

Once again you're only reading what suits your preconceptions. Did you bother to note the part about making a contract? Or have a manager make one for you for a fee or a percentages? You don't get it. You just go by your assumptions, which happen to be incorrect. You get the last word...byeeee

Re:10,000 abacuses? How about 10,000 Linux install

[Kalriath]

Oh, OK. So if I were to write a book, I can guarantee I get paid for it... how? A contract with whom exactly? A publisher? No, I don't think they'd chance it if there's no guarantee that they'll get anything for it - and I couldn't blame them! With everybody on the planet? Oh, I don't see that working.

Oh, I know how I'll do it! I'll get a sort of contract with the government that says that because I wrote this book, I should have the exclusive right to make copies! Then, people can either buy a copy from me, or they can get it secondhand from someone else for as much or as little as they like. I think I'll call this novel contract a "copyright"!