Well, I'm atheist and I'm anti-abortion, mostly because I see most of them as being the result of irresponsible behavior, and a further unwillingness to take responsibility for one's actions. I would think that most people don't believe abortion is a good idea, it mostly comes down to what criteria get applied for it to be permitted. Some would say when the mother's life is at risk, some would say when a woman is impregnated after a rape, others say it's the mother's choice... others say never, ever. As usual, there's a middle ground that has to be found and some people will just have to accept that, whether they want to or not.
Obviously, as someone who doesn't believe in a human soul I'm at best only peripherally concerned with that aspect of the abortion controversy, however I do believe that a society such as ours should maintain some self-respect, some respect for each other. The problem is complex, however, and simply outlawing abortion without honestly and openly discussing the underlying cultural and economic concerns that affect abortion rates is pointless. Failure to address those issues will only make matters worse.
Regardless, I agree with you that abortion won't be dealt with in a responsible way unless we stop with the fear-mongering and irrational arguments. That applies to a whole host of other problems that are facing our society right now, from foreign policy to illicit drugs to stem-cell research. Unfortunately, many, many people simply cannot see past their own worldview, won't compromise under any conditions, refuse to accept that the other guy might have a point. Other people are just ignorant and believe whatever they're told by the latest talking head. As a consequence, sometimes very little progress gets made.
Well, as an American citizen who is watching his country's slow fall from being the leader in technology and scientific research to a relative backwater, I'd say it's a good thing that other nations are investing more and more in science, so that when the time comes I'll be able to fly somewhere to get state-of-the-art treatment if I should ever need it.
I was not screaming "STOP" at the controversy. I was screaming "STOP" at yet another repeated falsehood. I am perfectly willing to discuss the "controversy" but not with such outrageous emotional overtones.
I have nothing against working multiple lines of research: one or both will pay off handsomely (or maybe another effort that's not even been thought of yet, but will likely benefit from current progress.) But the "killing babies" argument is getting old and tired, and is not relevant because nobody kills babies for the express purpose of acquiring stem cells. That's just a lie, pure and simple. They're discarded embryos that have no hope of ever being born... this is just my own opinion, but if I'd had a mother that didn't want me, had aborted me and left me for dead, I'd rather have ended up in a research program than a medical incinerator. Maybe then someone else who might otherwise have died, or suffered horribly, would have some chance at life.
Nobody wants to deal with the real issue of why there are so many non-viable embryos available for research purposes in the first place. What? That's a complex psycho-socio-economic problem that has no easy answer and can't be solved by blowing up abortion clinics or passing a few laws? Huh. How about that for controversy. Perhaps we need to rethink some basic aspects of our culture and figure out where we went wrong. This so-called "controversy" over stem cell research is a symptom of some deeper issues. Issues that, I might add, aren't going to disappear just because our President doesn't understand that his moral sense is too simplistic to provide effective guidance in this area (among others.)
I get just as torqued off when people make similar irrational commentary on other equally-hot topics. So calling me a hypocrite is a bit off: I just want people to learn to think. Only then does a reasoned response that might actually improve matters become possible. Otherwise everyone is just stroking their egos and refusing to learn anything.
Look, this same technique is applied to many different issues. Take illegal immigration. As soon as anyone brings up the idea of enforcing the law as written, some asshole immediately starts crying "racism! racism!". At that point, any rational discussion becomes impossible, because anyone who believes we should enforce our own laws has now been labeled a bigot. Doesn't matter what the facts are any longer.
So, if you want to have a decent dialog about the use of discarded embryos in stem cell research, keep the "killing babies" commentary to yourself. It serves little purpose other than to polarize the participants and eliminate any possibility of rational discourse. The people who are performing this research (the ones who originally used embryonic cells) are not baby killers, not abortion doctors, they're researchers with a genuine desire to advance our scientific knowledge and help people. Such deliberate and malicious mischaracterization of others generally means that someone has a fatally flawed perspective that cannot be supported by reality... and knows it.
Here we go again: ISPs are not common carriers. Even the Telcos are not, with regards to their data services, which received an exemption from common carrier requirements.
who gives a shit when we can waste billions on exploring space?
Do you have any idea what you talking about, what the value of near-Earth space efforts have been? Billions upon billions in economic returns (hell, weather monitoring alone is worth the price of admission.) Space research is hardly wasted. Could all of us do better at managing our world? Sure. But shutting down space programs isn't the way to do that.
More to the point, enrollment in engineering and scientific curriculae is not exactly down in the U.S.... it's enrollment by American citizens that is down. China and India are packing our schools, especially China. What's going to happen once they've sucked us dry of whatever knowledge they feel they need is another story.
They can't charge a fee for the party, but they can still show the video during normal operation... that's what I mean by exemption. Music is another story.
Well, you could just rent a video projector and throw a ten foot image on your garage door. Of course, that would constitute an unauthorized public performance and would probably bring the cops.
My history books tell me about something called the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition. Heard of those?
Yeah, I've heard of those. But supposedly we're past that point now, and in any event ancient acts of brutality don't justify current ones (which is, of course, the root of the problem... many people believe that they do.)
Spam is not annoying any more.... So you say all this spam is clogging up bandwidth? Well I bet it's still nothing compared with the bandwidth consumed by file sharing and video web sites.
It's not? You might lose that bet.
I bet you've never run a mail server.
I doubt he has either. My bandwidth logs show that several hundred megabytes of crap hits my network every day, and that's just what is allowed past the firewall. I don't really know how much other stuff is coming at my IP, because it's blocked. The amount of spam is really unbelievable, though, and it's pretty much just a continuous unauthorized consumption of my paid-for resources that does me no good at all. I also get unending attacks on my FTP and other remote services, constant port scans and worm penetration attempts. All that does is clog my pipe, and eats ISPs profit margins.
Besides, torrents and video sharing sites are services that benefit the end user. Regardless of whether people like the GP believe that people are paying their ISPs enough for them, they don't claim vast amounts of bandwidth in order to sell a few thousand bottles of fake Viag!ka and make a few dozen people wealthy. The cost/benefit ratio of bit torrent is quite a bit better than that of spam, I'd say.
I'm glad I've never had an interest in organized sports. Such naked greed needs to be recognized by the medical profession as the mental illness that it is, and treated as such.
Perhaps that wasn't something they were allowed to do. Matter of fact, this being the Internet and TCP/IP, if such were possible it should have just happened.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, I'm atheist and I'm anti-abortion, mostly because I see most of them as being the result of irresponsible behavior, and a further unwillingness to take responsibility for one's actions. I would think that most people don't believe abortion is a good idea, it mostly comes down to what criteria get applied for it to be permitted. Some would say when the mother's life is at risk, some would say when a woman is impregnated after a rape, others say it's the mother's choice ... others say never, ever. As usual, there's a middle ground that has to be found and some people will just have to accept that, whether they want to or not.
Obviously, as someone who doesn't believe in a human soul I'm at best only peripherally concerned with that aspect of the abortion controversy, however I do believe that a society such as ours should maintain some self-respect, some respect for each other. The problem is complex, however, and simply outlawing abortion without honestly and openly discussing the underlying cultural and economic concerns that affect abortion rates is pointless. Failure to address those issues will only make matters worse.
Regardless, I agree with you that abortion won't be dealt with in a responsible way unless we stop with the fear-mongering and irrational arguments. That applies to a whole host of other problems that are facing our society right now, from foreign policy to illicit drugs to stem-cell research. Unfortunately, many, many people simply cannot see past their own worldview, won't compromise under any conditions, refuse to accept that the other guy might have a point. Other people are just ignorant and believe whatever they're told by the latest talking head. As a consequence, sometimes very little progress gets made.
And that's too bad.
Well, as an American citizen who is watching his country's slow fall from being the leader in technology and scientific research to a relative backwater, I'd say it's a good thing that other nations are investing more and more in science, so that when the time comes I'll be able to fly somewhere to get state-of-the-art treatment if I should ever need it.
I have pretty much only ONE way to get to work, about twenty-five miles of expressway.
I was not screaming "STOP" at the controversy. I was screaming "STOP" at yet another repeated falsehood. I am perfectly willing to discuss the "controversy" but not with such outrageous emotional overtones.
... this is just my own opinion, but if I'd had a mother that didn't want me, had aborted me and left me for dead, I'd rather have ended up in a research program than a medical incinerator. Maybe then someone else who might otherwise have died, or suffered horribly, would have some chance at life.
... and knows it.
I have nothing against working multiple lines of research: one or both will pay off handsomely (or maybe another effort that's not even been thought of yet, but will likely benefit from current progress.) But the "killing babies" argument is getting old and tired, and is not relevant because nobody kills babies for the express purpose of acquiring stem cells. That's just a lie, pure and simple. They're discarded embryos that have no hope of ever being born
Nobody wants to deal with the real issue of why there are so many non-viable embryos available for research purposes in the first place. What? That's a complex psycho-socio-economic problem that has no easy answer and can't be solved by blowing up abortion clinics or passing a few laws? Huh. How about that for controversy. Perhaps we need to rethink some basic aspects of our culture and figure out where we went wrong. This so-called "controversy" over stem cell research is a symptom of some deeper issues. Issues that, I might add, aren't going to disappear just because our President doesn't understand that his moral sense is too simplistic to provide effective guidance in this area (among others.)
I get just as torqued off when people make similar irrational commentary on other equally-hot topics. So calling me a hypocrite is a bit off: I just want people to learn to think. Only then does a reasoned response that might actually improve matters become possible. Otherwise everyone is just stroking their egos and refusing to learn anything.
Look, this same technique is applied to many different issues. Take illegal immigration. As soon as anyone brings up the idea of enforcing the law as written, some asshole immediately starts crying "racism! racism!". At that point, any rational discussion becomes impossible, because anyone who believes we should enforce our own laws has now been labeled a bigot. Doesn't matter what the facts are any longer.
So, if you want to have a decent dialog about the use of discarded embryos in stem cell research, keep the "killing babies" commentary to yourself. It serves little purpose other than to polarize the participants and eliminate any possibility of rational discourse. The people who are performing this research (the ones who originally used embryonic cells) are not baby killers, not abortion doctors, they're researchers with a genuine desire to advance our scientific knowledge and help people. Such deliberate and malicious mischaracterization of others generally means that someone has a fatally flawed perspective that cannot be supported by reality
Wow, they didn't even kill an unborn baby
Cut it out. Please, just stop it.
Steve Ballmer must be looking at this from Lewis Black's perspective:
... and it's a fuckin' thing!
We need to build a big fuckin' thing. I don't care what it is, so long as it's big
Here we go again: ISPs are not common carriers. Even the Telcos are not, with regards to their data services, which received an exemption from common carrier requirements.
who gives a shit when we can waste billions on exploring space?
Do you have any idea what you talking about, what the value of near-Earth space efforts have been? Billions upon billions in economic returns (hell, weather monitoring alone is worth the price of admission.) Space research is hardly wasted. Could all of us do better at managing our world? Sure. But shutting down space programs isn't the way to do that.
Well, it's true the the primary education system in the U.S. is deficient, but that just means colleges have to provide remedial training.
Besides, good engineers are the ones that don't depend upon what they learn in school for everything anyways.
Yes, the Indian politics is screwed up.
Of Indian politics I know nothing, but if they're more screwed up than ours I'd be very impressed.
In America the medical profession recognizes naked greed (and you naked too).
Thanks for reminding me. I'm going in for a physical next week.
More to the point, enrollment in engineering and scientific curriculae is not exactly down in the U.S. ... it's enrollment by American citizens that is down. China and India are packing our schools, especially China. What's going to happen once they've sucked us dry of whatever knowledge they feel they need is another story.
They can't charge a fee for the party, but they can still show the video during normal operation ... that's what I mean by exemption. Music is another story.
The difference, I guess, is that the bars have a specific legal exemption for public performances. Apparently churches don't.
Well, you could just rent a video projector and throw a ten foot image on your garage door. Of course, that would constitute an unauthorized public performance and would probably bring the cops.
The point the GP is making, I believe is ... never say never.
My history books tell me about something called the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition. Heard of those?
... many people believe that they do.)
Yeah, I've heard of those. But supposedly we're past that point now, and in any event ancient acts of brutality don't justify current ones (which is, of course, the root of the problem
Spam is not annoying any more.... So you say all this spam is clogging up bandwidth? Well I bet it's still nothing compared with the bandwidth consumed by file sharing and video web sites.
It's not? You might lose that bet.
I bet you've never run a mail server.
I doubt he has either. My bandwidth logs show that several hundred megabytes of crap hits my network every day, and that's just what is allowed past the firewall. I don't really know how much other stuff is coming at my IP, because it's blocked. The amount of spam is really unbelievable, though, and it's pretty much just a continuous unauthorized consumption of my paid-for resources that does me no good at all. I also get unending attacks on my FTP and other remote services, constant port scans and worm penetration attempts. All that does is clog my pipe, and eats ISPs profit margins.
Besides, torrents and video sharing sites are services that benefit the end user. Regardless of whether people like the GP believe that people are paying their ISPs enough for them, they don't claim vast amounts of bandwidth in order to sell a few thousand bottles of fake Viag!ka and make a few dozen people wealthy. The cost/benefit ratio of bit torrent is quite a bit better than that of spam, I'd say.
I'm glad I've never had an interest in organized sports. Such naked greed needs to be recognized by the medical profession as the mental illness that it is, and treated as such.
Holy mackerel, how could you have made that mistake?
Wouldn't take much of a solar panel to keep a cell phone alive either.
Now tell me how narrow-minded I am..
... I just wanted to use that line.)
You're so narrowminded that you could peer through a keyhole with both eyes!
(Sorry
Perhaps that wasn't something they were allowed to do. Matter of fact, this being the Internet and TCP/IP, if such were possible it should have just happened.
Something must have gotten in the way.
This ought to be tagged as coming from the "Lack of Redundancy Department".
Why? The odds are great that the combined Microsoft-Yahoo would be less of a long-term threat than either of them are now.
Ballmer wants to buy himself a chip in the big game. I'm not so sure it's going to work out like he's hoping it will.