Slashdot Mirror


How One Clumsy Ship Caused A Major Net Outtage

Ant writes "Here is an interesting world map of various Internet connections, showing how it took just one vessel to inflict the damage that brought down the internet for millions."

264 comments

  1. Huh by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    This ought to be tagged as coming from the "Lack of Redundancy Department".

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:Huh by stormguard2099 · · Score: 2, Funny

      This ought to be tagged as coming from the "Lack of Redundancy Department". Twice.
      --
      http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
    2. Re:Huh by julesh · · Score: 1

      This ought to be tagged as coming from the "Lack of Redundancy Department".

      The only strange thing is that if you look at the map, there's plenty of redundancy. All the affected countries had to do is route their traffic east rather than west and everything would have been fine (if, perhaps, a little slow). Why, then, was the failure so catastrophic?

    3. Re:Huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Department of Lack of Redundancy Department" would probably drive home the point better.

    4. Re:Huh by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Perhaps that wasn't something they were allowed to do. Matter of fact, this being the Internet and TCP/IP, if such were possible it should have just happened.

      Something must have gotten in the way.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:Huh by LeoHat · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, you'll have to take that up with the Ministry of Redundancy Minister. You'll need to fill out the paperwork in triplicate.

      --
      The mistakes of a clever man are equal to the mistakes of a thousand fools.
    6. Re:Huh by cheater512 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Look at Australia for the moment.
      We have one line going from Brisbane to Hawaii and another from Sydney to New Zealand.
      They are both part of the same network.

      A few years back one of the cables got cut while the other was under maintenance.
      All our internet was routed through the two western cables.

      Do you realize how slow it was?
      Dialup was severely affected and if you got 1kbps you were very lucky.
      Thats just for a small 20million person country back in the day when everyone didn't have net.

      Fast forward to today with high speed broadband and about 90 million people affected.
      Yes data will be re-routed but it will probably be faster to snail mail Google asking for your search query.

    7. Re:Huh by abionnnn · · Score: 1

      Well... its funny that you say that because a total of 3 cables have been cut now. So much for triple redundancy.

      If anything it should be tagged "fishy". :)

    8. Re:Huh by HARRRRRR · · Score: 1

      I think you've summed your post up with the title; Huh?

      Let's start with a few facts.. There is no real operational cable coming out of brisbane. The two major east coast cables are the SXC (two cables, both land on different sides of the city of sydney, one goes via NZ to Hawaii the other goes via Fiji) and the AJC, again out of sydney this time going to Japan via Guam.

      The west coast has an older, but still somewhat utilised setup (SEA-ME-WE3).

      As for your (far inflated) figures, where exactly did you pull these from? Australia currently has a population in the order of 20-22million, how the fsck are there ever going to be 90million internet users in the country?

      There was an issue, almost similar (albeit, less dramatic) than the FUD you're spreading late last year [infact, i recall two or three] - the SXC was broken over on the US mainland, which affected our connectivity to their west coast. The problem here isn't the cables, it's the fact that most (read: most, not all - there are a few decent ones out there, if you know anything about the industry in this country you'll know who they are) ISP's in this country run their lines far oversubscribed and barely pull it off under normal circumstances. Had they had two or more circuits, either one across each SXC link or 1x SXC + 1x AJC running at 50% capacity or lower, the problems would have been greatly reducted. Likewise, if they had a single _protected_ SXC circuit.

      I don't think the cables are the underlying problem. Sure we can talk the economics of undersea lines and how it would be cheaper if there were more, blah blah blah - but when it comes down to it, the _protected_ capacity is available out of this country. It's expensive, but hey, it's not like you enter the industry here not realising that to be a real deal you're going to need undersea capacity, or maybe that's too tricky to figure out?

      Add to the fact you've got PIPE commited to building a similar cable to the AJC (quite possibly with a few other landing points - the gold coast has been mentioned, maybe that's where you got brisbane from?) Telstra talking about building their own cable similar to the SXC and a bit of chatter about other cables coming out of Perth through to western asia, etc and it's definately not the lack of cables coming out of the country. It's the cheap, profiteering ISP's (read: GOF) that don't seem to give a fsck about having a real network or providing a quality service.

      Btw, you can actually find out what you're talking about: http://www.ajcable.com/ http://www.southerncrosscables.com/public/Network/default.cfm http://www.smw3.com/

    9. Re:Huh by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      Hmm ok you've got me on the first point.
      Most maps show the second cable coming from around Brisbane so it doesn't look crowded I think.

      I said 90 million because thats a rough figure of how many people are affected by the Mediterranean cable cuts.
      Not Australia. Re-read my post.
      I quickly added up the numbers at the bottom of that image in TFA.

      The cable cut I was refering to was many years ago.
      It might have been 2000 or 2002.

    10. Re:Huh by HARRRRRR · · Score: 1

      Fair call, my mistake..

      The standing point is that there are a few ISP's in Australia that can and do run, for the most part, unaffected, when these major cables have issues. The (diverse) capacity _is_ available and there's plenty more in the pipeline..

      You get what you pay for - especially in this business.

    11. Re:Huh by pclminion · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you realize how slow it was? Dialup was severely affected and if you got 1kbps you were very lucky. Thats just for a small 20million person country back in the day when everyone didn't have net.

      We've become so spoiled. Bandwidth has made us lazy. Why, 1 kbps is basically a 9600 bps modem. I used to do practical things on the Internet as those speeds. Just getting on your average web site these days would take too long for comfort. And what do we get in exchange? A lot of flashy graphics and advertisements.

      Oh well.

    12. Re:Huh by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      Yeah well, think of poor PNG. Looking at that graphic, they don't have a minister for redundancy, in fact - they have no link to the Internet at all!

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    13. Re:Huh by pev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We've become so spoiled. Bandwidth has made us lazy. Why, 1 kbps is basically a 9600 bps modem. I used to do practical things on the Internet as those speeds.

      We used to get by using postal mail delivered by hand and taking weeks to get between countries. People got practical things done then. Of course now peoples systems and methodologies have adapted to the 'current' ways of working making it impractical to 'go back' for many.
    14. Re:Huh by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      Let me take a guess as to what would happen, office productivity would double and sales of phony Viagra would drop dramatically?

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  2. Injustice by QuickFox · · Score: 4, Funny

    All those virus writers struggling so hard, and then a simple ship gets all the bragging rights.

    --
    Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
    1. Re:Injustice by NJVil · · Score: 1

      If there were any justice it could at least have been a storm to bring the Internet down rather than competing naval technology.

    2. Re:Injustice by nihongomanabu · · Score: 1

      According to TFA, the ship was trying to moor during "bad weather." So it WAS a storm that caused it, indirectly.

    3. Re:Injustice by TheQuantumShift · · Score: 4, Funny

      All it takes is one laid off programmer to get his captain's license....

      --

      Shift happens. Fire it up.
    4. Re:Injustice by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

      All those virus writers struggling so hard, and then a simple ship gets all the bragging rights.

      Some fisherman took "trolling the internet" a little too literally.

    5. Re:Injustice by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      All it takes is one laid off programmer to get his captain's license.... Or a backhoe operator.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    6. Re:Injustice by somersault · · Score: 1

      Best pun I've seen for a long time. I think you just won slashdot, let us know what the prize is :p

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:Injustice by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Informative
      TFA:

      According to reports, the internet blackout, which has left 75 million people with only limited access, was caused by a ship that tried to moor off the coast of Egypt in bad weather on Wednesday.
      Promises to be an interesting trip to the long green table, especially with the repair costs involved. Most stories I've heard of sailors and the LGT have a heavy Greek tragedy feel to them, even when the sailors are in the right.
      They go over your bottom with a fine tooth comb and a magnet, and they Will Find Things. Oh yes, they will.
      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    8. Re:Injustice by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      They have "Dig Safe". Now they'll need "Anchor Safe". "Don't drop that anchor without calling first!"

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    9. Re:Injustice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unless this is a pun, there is a big difference between trolling (a neologism) and trawling (fishing with nets)

  3. "How One Clumsy Ship Caused A Major Net Outtage" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I'd assume it cut all the cables?

  4. 3rd cable cut by vivekg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So far they found 3 cable cuts. According to this BBC article http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/technology/7222536.stm - A third submarine internet cable is severed in the Middle East, compounding global net problems.

    --
    The important thing is not to stop questioning --Albert Einstein.
    1. Re:3rd cable cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yea, if you read slashdot, you would have seen this news yesterday.

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/02/01/1912220.shtml

    2. Re:3rd cable cut by aminorex · · Score: 5, Informative

      Two in the Mediterranean, another between Suez and Dubai somewhere, which is not in the Mediterranean at all.
      The nation of Iran appears to be entirely disconnected from the Internet by these events: http://www.internettrafficreport.com/asia.htm

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    3. Re:3rd cable cut by Skreems · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How reliable is that site? Because it also claims that Colombia and part of Germany are completely absent from the internet...

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
    4. Re:3rd cable cut by floydman · · Score: 2, Funny

      Colombia is not down..

      unknown-ff-ff-00-ff-ff-ff:~ floydman$ ping Colombia.com
      PING colombia.com (199.125.90.76): 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 199.125.90.76: icmp_seq=0 ttl=110 time=327.604 ms
      64 bytes from 199.125.90.76: icmp_seq=1 ttl=110 time=333.573 ms
      64 bytes from 199.125.90.76: icmp_seq=2 ttl=110 time=324.541 ms
      64 bytes from 199.125.90.76: icmp_seq=3 ttl=110 time=324.487 ms

      --
      The lunatic is in my head
    5. Re:3rd cable cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, so is Colombia http://www.internettrafficreport.com/samerica.htm Wonder if it's related.

    6. Re:3rd cable cut by emilper · · Score: 3, Informative

      it's not disconnected. Try this : http://www.khamenei.ir/

      Nobody was disconnected: besides the submarine cables, there are land cables and satellite connections, and the copper cables of old, which were used by telecoms.

    7. Re:3rd cable cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, if you read slashdot, you would have seen this news yesterday.

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/02/01/1912220.shtml You insensitive clod! His Internet connection was down because some other insensitive clod cut some submarine cables!
    8. Re:3rd cable cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How reliable is that site? Because it also claims that Colombia and part of Germany are completely absent from the internet... My Nazi and Coke contacts haven't responded to my e-vites for Valetine's Day. Maybe this is why?
    9. Re:3rd cable cut by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      The nation of Iran appears to be entirely disconnected from the Internet by these events: http://www.internettrafficreport.com/asia.htm I imagine the leaders in Iran are currently either 1) rejoicing; 2) blaming the great satanic US; or 3) both.
      --
      #DeleteChrome
    10. Re:3rd cable cut by oldhack · · Score: 1

      Like other posts mentioned, how reliable is that info? Suez links Med to Red Sea, Dubai is on Persian Gulf, on the other side of Arabian Peninsula - no water linkage (unless you go out to Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean).

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    11. Re:3rd cable cut by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      I dunno. My buddy from Iran was just on AIM with me. It's not completely cut off.

    12. Re:3rd cable cut by zerkon · · Score: 1

      Because there's no possible way a site ending in .ir could be hosted anywhere other than the US?

      dig for khamenei.ir = 208.113.192.17 whois for 208.113.192.17 = dreamhost.com

    13. Re:3rd cable cut by orsat · · Score: 1

      The article and map refer only to undersea cable links; there are other links ie satellite and fibre-optic land lines

    14. Re:3rd cable cut by emilper · · Score: 1

      Because there's no possible way a site ending in .ir could be hosted anywhere other than the US?

      dig for khamenei.ir = 208.113.192.17 whois for 208.113.192.17 = dreamhost.com

      Indeed ? Then maybe I am using a different version of whois.

    15. Re:3rd cable cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm....

      I wouldn't call this a coincidence at all then.

    16. Re:3rd cable cut by zerkon · · Score: 1

      my bad, it didn't return a proper answer and that IP is one of the DNS servers for dreamhost

  5. So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    It's funny see all the wild speculations and accusations that it was deliberate sabotage by the US the other day, when there was no proof whatsoever.

    Now that the facts have come out, I'd like to see those slashbots apologize for undermining the US at every turn and being so unpatriotic.

    1. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by bheer · · Score: 5, Funny

      > I'd like to see those slashbots apologize for undermining the US at every turn and being so unpatriotic.

      Not all Slashdotters are *from* the US, you insensitive clod! I, for one, am posting from Teheran University and don't see why I should have to

      *NO CARRIER*

    2. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Erpo · · Score: 1, Troll

      First of all, it's not a "fact." It's a report, which may or may not be true. Or were you there when the cable was cut?

      Second, the U.S. has a bad track record when it comes to spying, so we don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

    3. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woah there, son. I think your tinfoil pants are on too tight.

      Oh, and don't feed the trolls, please.

    4. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by CA_Jim · · Score: 1

      And Third - this being Slashdot, who actually needs facts before slamming the US. Give the poor Slashdotters the benefit of the doubt - they have such a good track record here.

    5. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry - it actually worked, and Homeland Security didn't take credit.

      Definitely was not the USA.

    6. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the fuck is this modded troll?

    7. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who actually needs facts before slamming the US

      Yeah, you're right, silly us, this one ship actually cut all three cables in two separate bodies of water, that just happened to be the major connections to Iran. Whatta coinkydink!

    8. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *NO CARRIER*
      How many times is that joke going to get moded funny?
    9. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 1

      Until the current baleful Iranian regime allows us to freely express oursel

      *NO CARRIER*

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    10. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      It's funny see all the wild speculations and accusations that it was deliberate sabotage by the US the other day, when there was no proof whatsoever.

      Sometimes you just have to go with the odds.

    11. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Lobo93 · · Score: 1

      Oh man, I'm so glad I live in the civilized western hemisphere! No crypto-fascist regimes and insane lead

      *NO CARRIER*

      --
      "The only clear view is from atop the mountain of our dead selves." - Peter Carroll
    12. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Lally+Singh · · Score: 1

      Unpatriotic? Grow up.

      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    13. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > when there was no proof whatsoever

      Of course there was proof. I live near a US Navy base, and you wouldn't believe all of the smug smiles from the hateful US sailors. They knew what they had done, and they were proud of it.

    14. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      How do you know they are being unpatriotic? Maybe they're Chinese. Or Iranian. Or (unlikely though it may be) North Korean...

    15. Re:So It Wasn't The Evil US's Fault??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Unpatriotic? Grow up." Mr Walter Mitty 007, considering that you have benefitted from American education and have in the past been entrusted with employment in defense (I don't think that will happen again) YOU are the one who should grow up. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

  6. Wrong by slashmojo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Obviously this is the result of U2 manager Paul McGuinness calling on ISP's to disconnect the evil file sharers of the world..

    "To great applause from the audience of music managers, McGuinness insisted that disconnection enforcement would work."

    How right he was! ;)

    1. Re:Wrong by kryten_nl · · Score: 1

      Although the direct effect of the Mediterranean accident is being felt as far west as Bangladesh, the greatest impact has been in India,... No, it's probably someone who got sick of talking to "Steve" from "North-Carolina" about home equity loans.
      --
      For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
  7. Let's nip this one in the bud by Erpo · · Score: 0, Troll

    Yes, it's possible that the cable was cut to install spying equipment. If you are at all concerned about spying, you should encrypt your data before transmitting it over the Internet.

    1. Re:Let's nip this one in the bud by cicho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nobody needs to splice an undersea cable if they can go to AT&T and every other telco company and get what they want by idnetifying thnselves as the government and kindly asking, on dry land. For the US, the telco immunity bill seems to be a done deal: http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/01/dems-capitulate-on-fisa/

      --
      "Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
  8. Well what did they do 15 years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before they had the internet. Also they even have the internet there?

  9. Send Them a Bill by Detritus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They should follow the example of the telephone company. Find the owners of the ships and send them a bill for the repair costs. That will get their attention.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    1. Re:Send Them a Bill by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Informative

      They should follow the example of the telephone company. Find the owners of the ships and send them a bill for the repair costs. That will get their attention.


      Actually, ships are governed by maritime law, which is designed to protect and encourage commerce; I'm not sure if they even would be responsible for damage from an anchor to a cable lying on the seafloor. From my limited recollection, vessel owners liability is generally the value of the vessel (not including the cargo).

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    2. Re:Send Them a Bill by dlt074 · · Score: 1

      how are the people on the ship supposed to know there is a cable down there if there is no proper markings? they are not liable. should they send down divers to check things out every time they drop anchor? maybe the people laying the cable shouldn't put it in a high volume ship parking area. make them liable.

    3. Re:Send Them a Bill by linuxscrub · · Score: 5, Informative

      I believe that many/all undersea cables are mapped.

      Ships/captains plying international waters must have up-to-date info. If they damage a cable that is on the maps, they are responsible.

      See the great WIRED article from Neal Stephanson on the laying of FLAG:
      http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass_pr.html

      OK, it's an article from 1996, but it's one of the best WIRED articles (and looong) ever (back before they were owned by Conde Nast)

      L. Scrub

    4. Re:Send Them a Bill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two bits are making me wonder on this.

      1. Why weren't the cables buried. Commonly marine cables of all sorts are buried in a shallow (but deep enough to prevent easy damage) on the sea floor with special ploughs.

      2. Would they be responsible if the maps where several 100 meters or more off, it isn't unheard off quite a bit ofshore for the cable to be quite far from their mapped position.

    5. Re:Send Them a Bill by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ships/captains plying international waters must have up-to-date info. If they damage a cable that is on the maps, they are responsible.

      Some speculate based on weather in the area that they were just trying to stabilize themselves in a storm so that they didn't drift into solid structures. It may come down to bits versus human lives.

    6. Re:Send Them a Bill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ships may be governed by maritime law, but that doesn't put the ship owners beyond other bodies of law. The Exxon Valdez is a rather well known example. That case is still ongoing, but the damages suggested by both sides greatly exceed the value of the vessel.

      That said, yeah, can a ship be responsible for a cable snagged by it's anchor? That doesn't seem likely. Also this can't be the first time. Anyone happen to be familiar with previous cases?

    7. Re:Send Them a Bill by KZigurs · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not really. If this is a ships fault - ignoring directions to anchor, marked warning signs (and there are a lot of them), causing an accident - recovery is very much possible and actually happens all the time with minor regional cables being cut by idiots (ish one incident every 6 months).

      The fun part is the fact that when you touch the backbone cables suddenly the [direct] damages rises in a few orders of magnitude. And at that point it becomes more economically feasible for insurer to pull up any lawyer around than just to shrug it off.

    8. Re:Send Them a Bill by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      I believe that many/all undersea cables are mapped.

      Ships/captains plying international waters must have up-to-date info. If they damage a cable that is on the maps, they are responsible.


      They may be responsible; but that is seperate from limiting liability which maritime law does for steamship owners. In addition, the owners are often only liable for gross negligence - and that may not include a captain acting recklessly. Most of this law was made when sailing was a dangerous activity and shippers needed to limit their potential losses to teh cargo / ship or else no one would engage in overseas commerce.

      Perhaps a lawyer familar with maritime law can weigh in here...

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    9. Re:Send Them a Bill by Detritus · · Score: 1

      There are these things called charts...

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  10. Great Map! by treat · · Score: 1

    The text is completely illegible.

    1. Re:Great Map! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right click and save to your local disk. Open with your favorite image viewer and then zoom in. The resolution isn't great but you can at least read everything but the names of the cables.

      *duh*

    2. Re:Great Map! by Kenoli · · Score: 1

      Here's an upscaled version. http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=seacablehiiifz4.jpg

      I don't know what it says under "Damaged" but everything else is pretty readable.

    3. Re:Great Map! by Kenoli · · Score: 1

      'Scuse me while I L2link

      http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8861/seacablehiiifz4.jpg

    4. Re:Great Map! by treat · · Score: 1

      Although I can determine what some of it says, I should not have to suffer permanent damage to my eyes discerning "nylon yarn".

  11. ... is due to change dramatically ... by sakti · · Score: 1

    "The whole subsea franchise operation is due to change dramatically in the next 18 months, but the question is how we cope in the meantime. You always have to assume that this kind of thing is going to happen."

    Does anyone know what they mean by this?

    --
    "It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees." - Albert Camus
    1. Re:... is due to change dramatically ... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does anyone know what they mean by this?

      Not me. The whole stupid article was a whole stupid article. One ship hit all three cables? Which ship? TFA attests that a ship's anchor hit hit the cable(s). No affirmation. Nothing. No wonder we don't read the damn articles.

      IIRC, the first two cables cut were 22 km apart. That's a pretty good anchor drag. Not saying it's impossible - it's a big, wide ocean with lots of aging freighters run by crews that likely had to be brought on ship via the crane.

      I would still like to see the money here.

      For the record, I still think Bush did it.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:... is due to change dramatically ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, when I heard a third cable was cut yesterday, I figured that ruled out the accident theory. People are still saying an accident, but lightning doesn't strike the same place twice. If accidents are that easy, whey are they so rare. Unless of course it's wasn't an accident.

  12. I don't get it by JoeCommodore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure you can see from the map they pulled the cables way too tight, but given the line width those things must be like 2 to 5 miles wide. :-)

    Seriously as previous slashdot postings, one or two accidents may be a coincidence but three within a few weeks sounds more like a pattern.

    --
    "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
    1. Re:I don't get it by blacklabelsk8er · · Score: 1

      Yeah, could be something afoot here. Suppression of access to information is a powerful tactic in censoring a society or at least giving you a bit more time to mask the information in question or put control measures into place.

    2. Re:I don't get it by LrdDimwit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you look at the actual map (the most interesting part to me), you see that in other parts of the world, the cables do this nice fanning out process -- the undersea cables between New York and Japan, for instance -- but because of the way the continents of Africa and Europe are arranged, they pretty much have to run a whole bunch of cables cables thru a narrow strait. This is a rough time of year for weather, and the aftermath of the first incident just means more traffic is added to that route (as people investigate, try to fix it, etc). So the first accident might have made it more likely for the subsequent ones to happen.

  13. What?!?! by mouko · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought we had agreed that it was George Bush that cut the cables. Did everyone change conspiracy theories while I was away?

    1. Re:What?!?! by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's the problem with these things. The big names get all the credit. Proper recognition should be given to the CIA trainers who spent countless hours training and outfitting the fleet of herring that did all the actual grunt work. Heck - you think training squirrels is hard... you should try herring.

    2. Re:What?!?! by QuickFox · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Don't worry, Bush still gets far more damage bragging rights than any virus writer.

      --
      Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
    3. Re:What?!?! by symbolic · · Score: 1, Funny

      It wasn't Bush. He couldn't find a plane that would survive the plunge into the ocean.

    4. Re:What?!?! by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Bush was captain of the ship.

    5. Re:What?!?! by BadHaggis · · Score: 1, Funny
      That's the problem with these things. The big names get all the credit. Proper recognition should be given to the CIA trainers who spent countless hours training and outfitting the fleet of herring that did all the actual grunt work. Heck - you think training squirrels is hard... you should try getting the lasers to stay on the Sea Bass.

      There fixed that for you.

      --
      Homo homini lupus
    6. Re:What?!?! by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      And the ship was called Titanic...

    7. Re:What?!?! by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      And the "Titanic" was actually the USA...

    8. Re:What?!?! by symbolic · · Score: 1

      I boycotted it because ABC didn't just politely let you know that the premier was coming up, but instead, took every possible opportunity to shove it down your throat. Did you happen to notice the LOST logo at the bottom right of the screen, for example, that accompanied most shows that ABC aired (at least during prime time)? I can do without all of the visual detritus with which stations now pollute their regular programming. This includes the barker crap that comes on after commercials, telling you what you're watching (DUH), along with what's coming up, and other junk.

    9. Re:What?!?! by NiceGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've been boycotting "LOST" ever since it came on the air...hoo-boy what a stinker.

    10. Re:What?!?! by AmiAthena · · Score: 1

      So... Iraq is an iceberg? You'd think it would be little cooler....

    11. Re:What?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just assumed it was Israel knocking the lines out on purpose or screwing up their taps.

  14. That's no physical location map. by the_other_chewey · · Score: 5, Informative

    The image linked from the summary does not depict the physical locations of cables, but is a schematic of existing connections between points on the globe. The lines in that image have not much to do with where the cables actually are. A more realistic representation of (a subset of) the world's submarine cable networks would e.g. be this big PDF or, in a more comprehensive view, that one (sold for a mere $350 :-| ).

    1. Re:That's no physical location map. by jimmyswimmy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Interesting drawing. I was amazed to see that Cuba has no subsea internet connection at all. It's kind of interesting to see one of the larger countries in the area completely circumnavigated like that. Out of curiousity I looked to see what connection they use, and it looks like a completely satellite-based service from newcom-intl.com, judging from the traceroute responses and the huge delays which occur at that hop. Neat.

      Guess that's one way to avoid having your internet connection destroyed by an anchor...

      --

      Just my $0.55 (US inflation, 1774-2008, for $0.02)
    2. Re:That's no physical location map. by CmdrPorno · · Score: 1

      "...the world's submarine cable networks..."

      Is this a new TV network which specializes in submarines, or a cable TV service for submarine dwellers? If the latter, wouldn't having a cable attached impinge the mobility of the submarine?

      --
      Sent from my iPhone
    3. Re:That's no physical location map. by grumling · · Score: 3, Funny

      I love that they put the installation and maintenance vessels on the high seas. Reminds me of the 17th century maps showing sea monsters in unexplored areas.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    4. Re:That's no physical location map. by hey · · Score: 1

      Cool map. Seems that Alcatel Lucent did about 50% of the cables.

    5. Re:That's no physical location map. by neomunk · · Score: 2, Funny

      "...here there be tech support"

    6. Re:That's no physical location map. by anticypher · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Alcatel-Lucifer map shows only fibres that Alcatel Fibre and Submarine Systems built, plus a few that Lucent brought to the clusterfuc^Wmerger from the old AT&T Long Lines. It is very much a subset of the total fibre under the sea, although Alcatel is now the largest undersea fibre company since Tyco (née AT&T Long Lines) pretty much handed the market to the French.

      the AC

      --
      Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
    7. Re:That's no physical location map. by manly_15 · · Score: 1

      When I was on vacation in Cuba, internet access was incredibly slow, and I don't believe many of the citizens actually have access. Of course, if Cuba wasn't embargoed by the US it would be trivial to connect to Florida. I imagine that the infrastructure doesn't exist to connect to a South American country, and they don't have the money to connect to Europe. Even if they did, most of Cuba is rural and they don't have the infrastructure (or the political will) to connect citizens.

    8. Re:That's no physical location map. by dajak · · Score: 1

      Here and here. Cuba is going to be connected to Venezuela in 2009. So apparently Cuba does want to be connected, despite the political risks involved in a 1000 fold increase in Internet traffic. The major problem for Cuba, I can imagine, is the US telecomms blockade, and the Helms-Burton act, which penalizes foreign companies doing business in the US for doing business with Cuba. European and Asian engineering companies are not going to defy the US over one minor cable to Cuba from a nearby island, and the Cuban government obviously doesn't have the equipment and cannot financially justify acquiring it.

  15. *forshadowing* by Shaltenn · · Score: 1

    "A communications disruption can mean only one thing - invasion."
    - We all know who.

    --
    If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
    1. Re:*forshadowing* by couchslug · · Score: 1

      ""A communications disruption can mean only one thing - invasion."
      - We all know who."

      No country including Iran would use the internet for C4I, and BTW no credible invasion force could mass near Iran in secret.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:*forshadowing* by ciggieposeur · · Score: 1

      No country including Iran would use the internet for C4I, and BTW no credible invasion force could mass near Iran in secret.

      And just how many independent journalists would be able to report on a hypothetical invasion force or civilian casualties within Iran without the Internet?

    3. Re:*forshadowing* by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "And just how many independent journalists would be able to report on a hypothetical invasion force or civilian casualties within Iran without the Internet?"

      All of them could report, but there might be a time lag while they got their act together. The internet is a convenience, but there was plenty of war photography and reporting before there were computers.

      There are more cell phones than computers, and cutoff of one external connection does not mean that the rest of the Iranian internet combined with cellular, landlines, sat phones, TV, radio and amateur radio couldn't route around damage.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  16. Now, I am not talking about nuclear attacks... by iamacat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But the Internet has become too centralized for even basic self-healing envisioned by TCP/IP researchers. Egypt is not an island and should have had many smaller capacity links to it's neighbors as well as satellite connections run by different companies. Every ISP and phone company in the world should have an agreement to provide emergency routing outside the usual patterns.

    I was hoping the news would be "cable cut, millions of surfers notice a slowdown in streaming video".

    1. Re:Now, I am not talking about nuclear attacks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Egypt is not an island and should have had many smaller capacity links to it's neighbors as well as satellite connections run by different companies.

      In case you forgot, Egypt is a poor country.

      Its neighbors are Libya, Sudan, Israel and the Gaza Strip. Only Israel has any significant telecom connectivity.

      Even though Egypt and Israel are at peace with each other, having signed the Camp David accords, there is reluctance in many parts of Egyptian society to do business with Israel.

    2. Re:Now, I am not talking about nuclear attacks... by hcdejong · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True, but that ignores the economic reality, and a few more factors.
      1. We're talking about (relatively) poor countries, so the budget for massively redundant infrastructure simply isn't there.
      2. Cables across land are easy when the region you go through is politically stable. It's another matter when there's a war going on. For example, Egypt shares borders with Sudan, and a cable going West from Egypt would cross Algeria.
      3. Cables across hundreds of km of undeveloped desert aren't cheap to install or maintain. It's much easier along existing infrastructure, but even then it's an expensive business.
      4. Items 1 and 3 combined mean that you'll get a few high-capacity links instead of multiple smaller-capacity links.
      5. The telecom tradition of 100% uptime is typical of first-world countries. In Africa, people tend to be more accepting of the occasional outage. See #1.

      Also, how much redundancy is enough? Currently, Egypt has 3 major links (FLAG, SEA-ME-WE 3 and SEA-ME-WE 4) to Europe, and 3 (the same cables) to Asia. They're all separated, so a single incident would take out (ballpark) 1/6 of their bandwidth. Severing 3 cables in one week falls under 'shit happens', IMO.

    3. Re:Now, I am not talking about nuclear attacks... by pixel.jonah · · Score: 2, Informative

      Every ISP and phone company in the world should have an agreement to provide emergency routing outside the usual patterns. Typically the failover would be at the cable level. This is something they do. Here's the T&C for SEA-ME-WE4 for example (pricing included): "Use of SMW4 to Restore other Cable Systems" PDF
  17. Oh noes, teh pollutions. by blacklabelsk8er · · Score: 5, Funny

    Think of all the 1's and 0's flowing into the ocean right now?! The cost to the environment here is appalling. Someone turn the valves on that internet backbone, stat! Think about the animals!

    1. Re:Oh noes, teh pollutions. by n6kuy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, and now we're gonna hafta drain the ocean so we can clean up that mess!

      --
      If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
    2. Re:Oh noes, teh pollutions. by JoeZeppy · · Score: 3, Funny
      Think of all the 1's and 0's flowing into the ocean right now?! The cost to the environment here is appalling. Someone turn the valves on that internet backbone, stat! Think about the animals!

      Good thing it wasn't token-ring. We'd never find the token underwater!

    3. Re:Oh noes, teh pollutions. by dotgain · · Score: 2, Funny

      Meh. Good thing it wasn't Token Ring full stop.

    4. Re:Oh noes, teh pollutions. by Jaxoreth · · Score: 1

      Think of all the 1's and 0's flowing into the ocean right now?!
      Good thing it's not token ring.
      --
      In general, it is safe and legal to kill your children. -- POSIX Programmer's Guide
    5. Re:Oh noes, teh pollutions. by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, Smirnoff have already taken matters in hand. Drink more vodka and we'll all be safe.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iXwzBvdrIY

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    6. Re:Oh noes, teh pollutions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where did I put that email-over-bottle RFC?...

  18. Should be: How bad network design... by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Caused by politics and telco monopolies created a network without redundancy. A combination of the infeasibility, due to the political situation, of overland links through the middle east and central Asia, and the hidebound Indian telco not providing sufficient redundancy in connections out of the country, never mind the total misallocation of resources inside it, are the cause of this. TCP/IP is specifically designed to recover from link outages, if it doesn't, you've got an improperly designed and/or operated (statically, as opposed to dynamically, routed) network.

    Good news for US and European IT workers though: that buffoon who offshored your jobs has to explain why the IT department has been down for a few days. I guarantee the CEO/CFO is not amused that he can't get to SAP, or that the stores can't upload, or that whatever other mission critical system is off-line isn't working.

    1. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by mikeashworth · · Score: 1

      I wonder too, if all these guys who specialise in Disaster Recovery, Business Continuity etc., who make site visits and point out problems with access card readers at offshore sites, even have any idea of the picture of cables that was just posted. Every Company (and especially those who offshores) should be carrying out geo-political risk assessment's on a regular basis and ensuring that this cabling is included in the mix. Imagine if your entire Business Model could be ruined by a few cables being severed, such is the way that data being transported about, is what many companies USP is all about. Even a slowdown of data transport could ruin a Company's reputation. Mike Ashworth Business Consultancy Brighton and Hove, UK

    2. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Informative

      They aren't total outages like you seem to think. There is redundancy. The internet is slower in those areas because some of their links are severed, but it's not out.

    3. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      You reminded me of something I read earlier today.

      7AM "Just kill the dissidents and get me my carpet!"
      Rep: The King of Nepal has declared martial law and has cut off all communication, so I cannot check the status of that rug order...

      http://www.overheardintheoffice.com/

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    4. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by GreggBz · · Score: 0, Redundant
      Why or why does this keep getting repeated on Slashdot?!

      TCP/IP is specifically designed to recover from link outages, if it doesn't, you've got an improperly designed and/or operated (statically, as opposed to dynamically, routed) network.


      TCP/IP has nothing in it, specifically, to deal with outages and alternate routes.
      BGP is designed for this.
      Spanning Tree also. That's a layer 2 protocol usually only in LAN environments.

    5. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by hughk · · Score: 1

      Some bigger companies will have connectivity but those hanging off smaller ISPs don't. My Wife's company has an office in India and they have lost data completely outside India but not voice.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    6. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by hughk · · Score: 1

      If you are sorting out PVCs (effectively leased circuits with guaranteed bandwidth), you normally get some kind of fall back option where they switch you somewhere else and maybe trim your bandwidth. If you really care about connectivity (i.e., connectivity between market participants and markets) you will go to different providers and make sure they liase so as to route via different cables (I guess that's where that $350 map comes in handy).

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    7. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "hidebound" Indian telco at this present moment is allowing me to download Borat at 100 kBps. Yes, in India, on a domestic line. Its just a minor inconvenience, maybe apparent mostly between 5-7 PM. People crib for the smallest things these days.

    8. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by ZWithaPGGB · · Score: 1

      Because TCP/IP has become the generic name for the IETF managed suite of protocols. BGP is only one of the routing protocols used to route IP packets. If you're going to be a pedant, then at least be accurate: from a traffic perspective it's IP, everything else rides on top of it (except ARP and RARP).

      SO, Smart arse: Here's the real deal: MPLS creates effective PVCs that map BGP propagated routes to telco circuits in a deterministic manner, which undermines the fundamental dynamic nature of all Internet routing protocols, of which BGP is only one (and the most brain dead/static). The reason we have such a cluster-bollocks is because Cisco made underpowered, fundamentally single-threaded, routers, and so were wedded to Bellman-Ford/distance vector routing protocols. This is because their routers couldn't handle the demand of link-state algorithms, especially OSPF, which would not have required any of this mucking around with alternate routing protocols, Autonomous System numbers and route reflectors, since it included the concept of stub, not so stubby, and aggregated areas. Instead they had to devise a suite of ever increasingly unreliable/suboptimal routing protocols named IGRP (It Greatly Reduces Performance), EIGRP (Egads! It Greatly Retards Packets), and BGP (Broken Gateway Protocol).

      Believe it or not, there were, and may still be, networks that run OSI routing protocols to route IP, like IS-IS, which works pretty well. The problem is, all these require people with clue and background, which the ILECs, in their race to the bottom, have jettisoned wholesale, to be replaced with those who hold vendor certs, and therefore only know one vendor's approach, and nothing of the history or underlying protocols. Before spouting off, go read your Perlman, Stevens, Moy, and anything written by Li.

    9. Re:Should be: How bad network design... by GreggBz · · Score: 1

      Impressive rant. You're correct, with the TCP/IP thing.
      The mods did not think much of me anyway. Relax.

  19. eve? by sveard · · Score: 1

    The communication lines between Alice and Bob were cut, Eve to blame?

    1. Re:eve? by Kandenshi · · Score: 1

      Eve may have cut the lines, but she was provoked! My sympathies lie very much in Eve's favour.

    2. Re:eve? by douji · · Score: 1

      Eve doesn't cut lines! that's a job for Mallory and Oscar

  20. now there are 4 cable cuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's a busy ship, dragging anchor and cutting cables that are 1500 miles apart.

    Fortunately, internet service in Israel and Iraq is unaffected and Iran is blacked out.

  21. See it to believe it by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 5, Informative
    The cable that was cut is in a common anchoring point for ships waiting to transit the Suez. The Suez canal is only large enough to allow transit in one direction, which leads to a pileup of sorts at one end to the "lake" in the center. As a point of reference here's a picture of a US carrier entering the Suez canal. https://segue.atlas.uiuc.edu/index.php?action=site&site=rrosenb2

    Off into the distance you can see the anchoring area. All the cables except the one that goes around the horn of Africa go through this channel. Maybe now it doesn't look so far fetched?

    1. Re:See it to believe it by PolarBearFire · · Score: 1

      Thank you for confirming my suspicion that the point where the lines cross is relatively small, shallow and full of traffic. Why couldn't they have shielded the whole thing with a couple of feet of reinforced concrete?

    2. Re:See it to believe it by grumling · · Score: 1

      Are you going to pay for that?

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    3. Re:See it to believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News reports gave the cable length to the cuts for each of these damaged cables, which would be approximately the distance offshore. For the cuts off Alexandria, these were 5km and 12km. For the cut off Dubai, it was 56km to the cut.

      Undersea cable locations are noted on nautical charts. Checking my charts of the Egyptian coastline, the area 5km and 12km of cable distance from the start point in Alexandria is in the middle of a marked No-Anchor zone. I have no idea at how well this no anchor zone is patrolled or enforced, however.

      Do we have weather reports for this area at the time of the cut?

      The Persian Gulf cut, off Dubai, would have been in between 250 and 325 meters of water, depending on which cable marked on the charts was the one cut. This is a tad deep for the dragging anchor story. Again, I haven't looked up weather reports for this one, either.

      I'm not sure I'm completely buying the 'clumsy ship' theory, though

    4. Re:See it to believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently, Wunderground.com has international weather, with recent histories. 30 Jan, 2008, in Alexandria, Egypt, the max wind speed reported was 32 mph. Yeah, you can drag your anchor into a no-anchor zone in that, but it certainly wouldn't win any awards for seamanship.

      1 Feb, 2008 showed max wind speeds off Dubai of 14mph. You'd need a power assist to drag anchor in that weather.

    5. Re:See it to believe it by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      Good old capitalism, no-one pays for anything in the name of prevention, and sometimes don't think twice about it when doing the repairs too...

    6. Re:See it to believe it by anticypher · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know where you are getting your information from, but hire a proctologist to put it back for you.

      There are no fibres running on the bottom of the Suez canal, all the fibres take an overland route. There are three major Egyptian landing areas in the Mediterranean, two west of Al Iskandariyah (Alexandria), and one to the east of Port Said, well away from the entry to the canal. The cable routes overland are now quite redundant, as cable cuts happen so often in Egypt every company now has at least two routes with circuit protection. On the Red Sea side, there are at least two landing points, at Abadiya and one across from there on the eastern side of the sea.

      All the cable landing zones are quite well marked on shipping charts (my google skills have failed me, I can't find an online chart site for Egypt, similar to this one for the UK). Ships are not supposed to drop anchor in those zones, no fishing allowed, no recreational boating, etc. At least in Europe, boaters can get a pretty heavy fine for dropping anchor in a restricted area, big enough that any captain who values his vessel/career knows to stay out of the areas. I doubt Egypt has such draconian enforcement, but the charts are clearly marked.

      For the two cuts off of Al Iskandariyah, there was a large storm in the eastern Med the day of the cuts, gale force 7 winds with large swells. So the local authority moved the anchorage area to west of Al Iskandariyah, and many ships ended up anchoring in the restricted zone, dragging their anchors as they were pulled along by the strong easterly winds.

      Only one cable near Egypt was cut at first, the second major cut was near France, which took out FLAG. There was then a third cut in the Egypt area, of the same FLAG fibre, but by a different ship dragging anchor. So FLAG got hit double hard.

      The most recent cut was somewhere down off of Dubai, which took out even more capacity. It's been an interesting week, as European banking traffic to the Emirates now has to flow all the way around the world the wrong way, and many of the intermediate carriers are choking on the traffic.

      the AC

      --
      Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
    7. Re:See it to believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non-snarky query: how do you get concrete to dry underwater? Are such installations simply (for certain values of "simple") prefabricated and dropped into place, or can purpose-specific mixtures "cure" in situ?

    8. Re:See it to believe it by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 1

      I remember reading about it somewhere else, but just to cite a source...

      So fiber-optic cables that go from Europe to India take the sea route via Egypt's Suez Canal, just as ships do.

      from here http://www.physorg.com/news121022065.html

      or here http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/02/stories/2008020260031800.htm

      I know you can't believe everything you read, but there's a ton of places that describe the cables as passing through the Suez just as ships do. I agree with you though that some cables undoubtedly must pass over land to be distributed. I'm sure if we wait long enough we'll find someone on /. that actually laid the cable. Until then, I'll just have to disagree with you.

  22. Grauniad don't know their bits from their bytes by wool.in.silver · · Score: 1

    At the bottom, it suggests that "terabytes a second" is denoted by "tbps".
    Surely "TB/s" would be terabytes, but they in fact meant terabits?

    Then again, it's from The Guardian, this is par for the cause.

    1. Re:Grauniad don't know their bits from their bytes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      par for the course - as in golf.

  23. Upload? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or that the stores can't upload

    Upload? Upload? Everything is download nowadays. You download from the intarweb, you download to the intarwed. You download CDs and DVDs to you PC, you download to your phone and you dowload your phone and PDA to the PC. You download to the server.

    Are you stuck in the 90's? There is no upload. Get over it!

  24. he got hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By the old ,,, +++ATH0 hack. ^8^>

  25. An "outtage", you say? by MrConspiracy · · Score: 1

    How one clumsy finger caused an ugly headline!

    1. Re:An "outtage", you say? by Nimey · · Score: 1

      It's an outage caused by frottage.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
  26. Everything into NYC? by thesolo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looking at the east coast of the US of the linked picture, it appears as though every single underseas line is going into New York City, with only a few also extending to Miami. Why is the east coast so non-redundant? Especially given NYC's recent history of being a prime target for terrorism, it seems as though you'd want lines also going into other major urban centers on the east coast, such as Washington DC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc.

    Does anyone know of a reason it's all being piped into New York?

    1. Re:Everything into NYC? by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      New York is about the closest point in the U.S. to Europe. It also has a history of being the demarcation point for trans-Atlantic cables. For instance, I believe the first undersea cable was New York to London. Undersea cables are expensive, so they try to keep them as "short" as possible.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    2. Re:Everything into NYC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's closest. Basic economics say the shorter cable is cheaper than the longer one. Also there is the economy of scale for the datacenters and the workforce to handle these kinds of connections is based there. Upgrading an infrastructure to handle more capacity is likely cheaper than building it from scratch.

      Those lines are just spaced out to allow the names to be filled in.

    3. Re:Everything into NYC? by grumling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Newfoundland to Ireland.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_telegraph_cable

      There is also a natural shelf along most of the route.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    4. Re:Everything into NYC? by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      Newfoundland is part of the U.S.? Excuse me, I need to go have a chat with some mapmakers.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    5. Re:Everything into NYC? by grumling · · Score: 1

      From your earlier post:
      I believe the first undersea cable was New York to London.

      The first Transatlantic cable was not NYC to London. Of course, rereading your post, I now see that you meant the London to Paris cable. The North American and European telegraph network were well along before someone came up with the funding for a Transatlantic cable.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    6. Re:Everything into NYC? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Why is the east coast so non-redundant? Especially given NYC's recent history of being a prime target for terrorism

      Didn't Cheney tell ya? We let them fuck up the internet over there so that they cannot fuck it up over here.

    7. Re:Everything into NYC? by houghi · · Score: 1

      Does anyone know of a reason it's all being piped into New York?

      Cost
      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    8. Re:Everything into NYC? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Not London, but Porthcurno, Cornwall, 3 miles east of the west-most bit of England. Goonhilly is where they go to AFAIK -- i.e. where the cable terminates. There's a museum and visitor centre, as well as a lot of satellite dishes.

    9. Re:Everything into NYC? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Geography. The same reason New York became a great city in the first place - it lies nicely on a great circle route from Europe. The other cities you listed aren't so conveniently located. (Not to mention that Washington and Philadelphia lie way the hell up shallow bays and rivers.)
       
      Another key is that so much of the shoreside telecommunications ties into New York, and not so much into the other places. Much the same reason that back when they invented area codes, NYC got the area that was fastest to dial under the logic of the switching system - 212.

    10. Re:Everything into NYC? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Especially given NYC's recent history of being a prime target for terrorism,

      You planning to fly a plane into an undersea cable?

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  27. coincidence or silver lining? by petes_PoV · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've definitely noticed a drop in sales calls from indian call centres over the past few days. I normally suffer from a few a day, maybe 2 or 3, but it's been wonderfully quiet for aq couple of days now - bliss!

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  28. Lucky Azores? by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

    So I guess that the Azores was lucky that a cable came their way(perhaps just São Miguel) and took a small detour. I would have thought that more wires would go that way but I guess that distance is not an issue. Maybe it is a harder route.

    From the map, it seems that some places a sea path has been chosen instead of a land based route, I guess it must be because it is easier.

    If this is how the cables to on shore, it is bound to give problems. :D Anyway, interesting stuff.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Submarine_Telephone_Cables_PICT8182_1.JPG

  29. Priorities by VeteranNoob · · Score: 2, Funny

    Governments have also become directly involved, with the Egyptian communications ministry imploring surfers to stay offline so business traffic can take priority. "People who download music and films are going to affect businesses who have more important things to do," said ministry spokesman Mohammed Taymur.

    And here's a big difference with the US. If the US were in the situation of limited bandwidth, we would all be encouraged to stop sending email to give priority to those shopping on iTunes.

    --
    Adapt, adopt, or get out of the way!
  30. So are we seeing... by KlomDark · · Score: 1

    Faster connections/downloads/etc in the countries not affected? Are we seeing a decrease in spam right now?

  31. Less spam by cybergen007 · · Score: 0

    I have noticed less spam since the cables broke. I say leave the cables broken or better yet get rid of all the cables in that area.

  32. This is just wrong! by Viceroy+Potatohead · · Score: 1

    As we learned from the movie Hackers, computer networks should be taking down ships, not the other way around. Has the whole world gone topsy-turvy on me?

    Maybe there's some sailor/hacker out there called Ahab-Override who can save the day...

  33. Cables not buried properly by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    It is not the ship's fault. The cable installer should have buried them properly. Movement of silt on the sea floor could have exposed the cable and caused it to be strung 'in the water', in which case it can be snagged very easily.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Cables not buried properly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It is not the ship's fault. The cable installer should have buried them properly.

      Underwater cables are not buried, except near land. Once you get away from land they lie loose on the seabed.

  34. Re:I still don't buy it. by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

    Wow, youre crazy. Any more gems for us? Roswell? Bigfoot?

  35. A ha! by drewmoney · · Score: 2, Funny

    My suspicions were correct. The cross-section clearly shows that the outer layer of the cable is actually a TUBE!

  36. Re:I still don't buy it. by moxley · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    So name calling is how you discuss things? That is all you can say? DO you have something to add to the conversation or are you just a sheeple?

    You may not draw the same conclusions, but facts are facts.

    IF you want to act like a child, go to Digg or 4chan.

  37. Misleading graphic alert by AlpineR · · Score: 3, Informative

    The "World cable capacity" plot at the bottom of the map is misleading. Total capacity is 7.1 tbps and used capacity is 2.1 tbps. They visualized the values as circles, so the ratio of areas should be 7.1:2.1. But instead they set the diameters to that ratio. The result is that capacity appears 9% used when it is actually 30% used (and 80% purchased).

    The "Internet users affected by the Alexandria accident" plot to the left uses circles correctly.

  38. Conspiracy! by Doug52392 · · Score: 1

    I still think the NSA or the Bush administration had something to do with it. How much of a coidnece is it that the wires power a majoridy of the Middle East's Internet? And that the NSA would love to drill into the Internet and harvest all that illeally obtained data?

    And I thought the NSA couldn't sink any lower... now their as low as the sea where the wires were...

    What gets me mad is how in a few months, this whole thing will be forgotten (just like all the "coincidences" with 9/11), so if there was a government conspiracy, it will be buried...

  39. I call BS on 'one ship by accident' by drwho · · Score: 1

    One ship cutting one cable is plausible, but unlikely. One ship cutting two cables, is odd and barely explicable, but possible if the cable engineers were really, really stoopid. One ship cutting 3 cables? Ah, no, we're not that gullible...this is a planned attack. For what reasons, I can only guess, but since the EnRon days bandwidth has been a commodity and so I'd guess it's someone playing nasty with the commodities market -- just like they do with energy futures. I say this is more likely than some attempt to censor, because there's still traffic flowing...it just costs a lot more, due to the laws of supply and demand.

    Yes, I do have professional knowledge of fibre optics and Internet connectivity. No, it isn't recent, but about six years old. Make of it what you will.

    1. Re:I call BS on 'one ship by accident' by grumling · · Score: 1

      I live close to a major railroad tunnel. Rail right of ways are often used by telecom companies for inter-LATA and long haul connections. If you look along the rail line, you will see underground cable markers for Quest, MCI, AT&T, and I know for a fact that Level3 leases/trades fiber with Quest. A few years ago there was a train derailment in the tunnel, which cut at least Quest's cable (which also took out Level3, and in turn Comcast's Internet).

      Last summer there was some underground work being done on 14th and Champa in Denver. This is right next to the AT&T wire center. The ground was covered with locate marks for all the different network and phone companies that have a POP in the building, and guess what? They were all within a few feet of each other!

      Did the companies conspire to put their undersea cables right next to each other? No, it is just that they all have the same engineering data, and all want the cheapest route to the POP. Most of the world's population is concentrated in the cities, so that's where you run your cable.

      Now, should they have built equal-cost redundant routes between POPs, like the US phone companies did back in the good old days? Of course. Is that practical in a world that wants 100Mbps Internet for $20/month? Doubtful.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    2. Re:I call BS on 'one ship by accident' by drwho · · Score: 1

      Back when I was involved with FO the industry was still run (for better or for worse) by 'phone guys', who were using fan, balding white guys with poor interpersonal skills. But their dogma had a strong believe in designing for reliability.

      Data centers were designed with FO carefully coming in rom different streets on different ends of the building, and there were carefully worded legal agreements which would prevent their upstream carriers from doing anything that would threaten the data center's redundancy.

      Now, as far as R.O.W. - it's the OCEAN! It's not like you have a lot of buildings and property lines cluttering up the ocean floor. Sure, once they make landfall that's a problem but it's a whole different ball of wax. Now, perhaps some stupid engineers out there just don't get it or don't think it's important, but things like train derailments, fires, floods, ship anchors, earthquakes, war, vandalism, etc were all very real design constraints with to professionals I worked with. Maybe all these guys got rich and retired, or the bad food and tobacco finally took its toll, and new 'engineers' came in without any clue and ripped up all the old design constraints, but somehow I doubt it.

      Nah, it's sabotage. Could be someone playing the futures market, like I said before, or a plain old extortion / protection racket.

    3. Re:I call BS on 'one ship by accident' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that cut-and-dried. The Suez canal is only about 1000 feet wide, so all the cables enter fairly close to each other. A single ship getting tossed about in a storm could easily clip a couple cables around the entrance to the canal.

      dom

  40. Don't be silly! by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    The U2 is a plane, not a sea vessel!

  41. Remember - these clumsy ships are how you... by Muckluck · · Score: 1

    Remember - these "clumsy ships" are how you get your bad ass computers, wide screen TV's and crude oil. These "clumsy ships" are vital to the way the world gets the things that they want / need. The captain made an error in judgment, but I am certain that all of the professional bulk carrier sea captains and ships mates that are reading this would have done differently...

    --


    --I like turtles...
  42. totally agree by Corson · · Score: 1
    "it's very likely this was something else other than what is being claimed... to see how easy it would be to disrupt the net in a particular area"

    the odds of three undersea cables being accidentally cut off at almost the same time is virtually zero. it was a test and a warning.

    1. Re:totally agree by moxley · · Score: 1

      I believe it was definitely something other than some accident....

      What really gets me is why are people so ready to call someone else crazy and so ready to accept whatever they read from some corporate news source?

      I don't expect anyone to take thing anything I said in my post (eg about HR1955 or S1959 or the articles with CIA sources regarding hackers shutting down power grids) as true on faith - if it catches your attention or you doubt it, then google the stuff and see for yourself...Your conclusions may be different from mine on what this all means - but these thoughtcrime bills which focus on the net are real, One has passed the house and will likely pass the senate.

  43. And the ship was called... by Doug52392 · · Score: 1

    Is it suspicious that the ship is never named?

  44. Colombia by puto · · Score: 3, Informative

    i will answer that. I am a half ass colombian(colombian pop) . I grew up in the states, but lived and worked in Colombia for a time, and know, or at least knew their infrastructure fairly well. Colombia at one point in time had two internet companies. EPM(emtelsa) which is state run and owned. And Telesat, which is privately owned, Enrique Biaz I think was the CEO, offered me job around 2002 when I was running around there. I just didnt want to move to Cali. I liked Manizales. Anyway Telesat in Colombia is the link that is down, so one provider is down, not the entire country, because most people use the Emtelsa, or whatever the have evolved into. So while telesat link is down(I think they have changed their name) the country is still online for most everyone else.

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  45. Re:I still don't buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So name calling is how you discuss things...IF you want to act like a child, go to Digg or 4chan."

    As long as we are name calling how about this one - Hypocrite

  46. Someone doesn't know their units... by glitch23 · · Score: 0

    At the bottom of the map linked in the submission is a diagram of how much capacity is used, available, and bought on the trans-Atlantic cable. Unfortunately the caption says "terabytes" but each of the labels in the diagram use "tbps". Someone doesn't know how to distinguish between terabits and terabytes.

    --
    this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
  47. How convenient! Iran in the dark... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It takes a subgenius to figure out what's going on. I wonder if Iran be the last nation Bush & co have time to fuck up. I certainly hope so.

  48. Distant Scandinavia by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    It looks from that map that Sweden and Norway don't have any cables connecting them across the Baltic Sea to the rest of Europe. So they must get their connections from landlines across their huge, mountainous and largely unpopulated peninsula, all the way back to Finland, Russia etc. It's a short run across the strait to Denmark, which already has at least one cable landing terminal, and probably 80%+ of Norwegians/Swedes live right there. I wonder why they don't run that cable. Undersea rights of way have got to be cheaper than across land.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Distant Scandinavia by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Or your map is incomplete. I would expect Sweden to have some undersea cables to the mainland.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  49. Ireland in Peril by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's only a single cable on that map connecting Ireland to the Internet. The English Channel has lots of shipping. That seems like something the Irish government would want to get fixed right away. Maybe another cable to Britain.

    Or better yet, a cable to France, for not just geographical diversity but also geopolitical diversity. A cable to the Netherlands would give even better interconnectedness.

    And of course it would be even better if that connection landed somewhere else than Dublin, so there's no failure bottleneck point.

    Any extra cables would also increase Ireland's overall Internet bandwidth. As that country climbs out of the Industrial Age (and really the Farming Age), it'll need more than one cable. Especially if it doesn't want to get squeezed by some "bottleneck master".

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Ireland in Peril by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's only a single cable on that map connecting Ireland to the Internet. The English Channel has lots of shipping.

      Sure, but a shipping channel is not the same as an anchorage. Even coming into Dublin, they may have been able to lay the cable well outside of useful anchorage areas, including areas a ship might drop to wait out a storm. We'd have to have very detailed charts before we could say that cable is a high risk.

      The other thing about that map you're looking at - is a single line a single physical cable? You can have a situation where two or three have been laid over the years that carry the same service, and in any conversation other than physical maintenance are referred to as one line.
    2. Re:Ireland in Peril by jackhererUK · · Score: 1

      The English Channel is the area of sea between the south of England and France. The cable between Brtain and Ireland is in the Irish Sea, nowhere near the English Channel.

    3. Re:Ireland in Peril by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Well, a shipping anchor isn't the risk. A single failure bottleneck point is the risk.

      When they lay these cables, they're wound together in a single bundle. Since Dublin connects to only a single other point, that's going to be a single cable. A single point where something, like say a sinking ship (or whatever), will disconnect the entire country.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    4. Re:Ireland in Peril by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2

      You are correct.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    5. Re:Ireland in Peril by xaxa · · Score: 1

      "As that country climbs out of the Industrial Age (and really the Farming Age)"

      Erm... you know... well, Wikipedia can say it:
      Ireland is among the richest, most developed and peaceful countries on earth, having the fifth highest Gross Domestic Product per capita, second highest Gross Domestic Product (Purchasing Power Parity) per capita and having the fifth highest Human Development Index rank. The country also boasts the highest quality of life in the world, ranking first in the Economist Intelligence Units Quality-of-life index. Ireland was ranked fourth on the Global Peace Index. The state also has high rankings for its education system, political freedom and civil rights, press freedom and economic freedom; as a result it was ranked fourth from the bottom on the Failed States Index, being one of the few "sustainable" states in the world.
      Ireland has a developed, modern, knowledge economy, focusing on services and high-tech industries.

      They probably do have more cables, just not marked on the map! (There might be an electricity cable, I can't remember. There's one from England to France.)

    6. Re:Ireland in Peril by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Er, my wife is from Ireland, I visit there at least once a year for years, I just got back, it's mostly a farming country. Outside of Dublin and a few other very small cities, it's all farmland and villages. It's grown a high tech industry in the past dozen years, but that's almost all around Dublin. The rest of the country is pretty much the same as it was: climbing out of the Industrial Age, but keeping lots of its Farming Age character. Though evidently its high tech contingent knows how to work Wikipedia - not really proof of anything.

      And we're not talking about electric cables. Though I wouldn't expect one: Ireland has this historical thing against dependence on England whenever possible (though England tries to create those dependences for the same reason).

      But I do think it's strange that there's no Internet cable to Northern Ireland, which is the UK, and has Belfast and its own cities and Internet demand.

      But that map claims to be definitive, so unless there's evidence it's not, I'll accept it.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    7. Re:Ireland in Peril by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Some of these maps show more cables for Ireland, including some for the Republic of Ireland.

    8. Re:Ireland in Peril by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I can sleep better tonight knowing Ireland is not in peril, due to manifold redundancy :).

      Did you notice if those maps show there's more redundancy to the Mideast and South Asia than reported and indicated in that initial map?

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    9. Re:Ireland in Peril by anticypher · · Score: 1

      You would trust anything published in the Grauniad? When did such a level of cluelessness descend upon /.? That map is just a poorly hacked-together graphic that doesn't show any real fibres or routes, it is designed to mislead readers, not enlighten them. The Guardian doesn't do enlightenment.

      Go look here, find the PDFs for Irish Sea and SouthWest, and you can see 17 fibres connecting Ireland to the UK or France. I think there are at least 24 fibres or older copper cables connecting the emerald isle to the rest of the world, at least one heads out of Galway across the Atlantic and doesn't show on the Kingfisher maps.

      the AC

      --
      Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
    10. Re:Ireland in Peril by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      There's only a single cable on that map connecting Ireland to the Internet. The English Channel has lots of shipping. That seems like something the Irish government would want to get fixed right away. Maybe another cable to Britain.

      The English Channel lies between England and France, not between England and Ireland.
       
       

      Or better yet, a cable to France, for not just geographical diversity but also geopolitical diversity. A cable to the Netherlands would give even better interconnectedness.

      Both would be hideously expensive - and provide little benefit for the cost.
       
       

      Any extra cables would also increase Ireland's overall Internet bandwidth. As that country climbs out of the Industrial Age (and really the Farming Age), it'll need more than one cable.

      Ireland is a very small country - and a single cable carries a hell of a lot of bandwidth.
    11. Re:Ireland in Peril by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Any extra cables would also increase Ireland's overall Internet bandwidth. As that country climbs out of the Industrial Age (and really the Farming Age), it'll need more than one cable.

      Ireland is a very small country - and a single cable carries a hell of a lot of bandwidth.


      Am I ever glad that Ireland didn't waste any money building dozens of cables offisland, as I learned myself today.
      --

      --
      make install -not war

  50. Could be nothing, by KnowledgeKeeper · · Score: 1

    but Israelis are being told to prepare for war

    --
    It is always better to be a first grade version of yourself than a second grade version of someone else.
  51. Greenland is next? by xPsi · · Score: 1

    On the cable map, Greenland looks only slightly less vulnerable than Asia (its like I'm playing Risk). Good thing that kind of redundancy was clearly thought out from the start. Wouldn't want to lose communications with the metropolis of Nuuk or the 12 faculty members at the University of Greenland.

    --
    i\hbar\dot{\psi}=\hat{H}\psi
  52. Redundancy by garyday · · Score: 0

    The problem is not lack of redundancy, the problem is lack of bandwidth, imagine i have an STM-16 in one direction and another STM-16 in the other direction and both of those are running high (>75%). If I lose one the net will reconverge, in just a few minutes, however now i have 2.5gb*1.75 running over a single 2.5g link. Problem is not with the network, it's a problem with Service Providers not having ample b/w in a failure scenario!

  53. Are Sea Cables "Abandoned & Salvageable"? by Zymergy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems like under Maritime Law, items abandoned/sunk/lost on the sea floor in International Waters are subject to being recoverable and salvageable?

    These cables DO contain valuable metals in them like copper, aluminum, and steel (probably stainless)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable
    (I do realize that some of the recent cable cuts are not in international waters, but is still is an interesting query.)
    I am not endorsing any harm of, nor the "salvaging" of any undersea cabling.
    However, there are many, many others in the world who do not have the same sense of right and wrong (and virtually all of these examples are NOT in International Waters.)
    http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=wire+theft+copper+aluminum&btnG=Search

    1. Re:Are Sea Cables "Abandoned & Salvageable"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Seems like under Maritime Law, items abandoned/sunk/lost on the sea floor in International Waters are subject to being recoverable and salvageable?

      Underwater cables are not abandoned, sunk or lost. They are deliberately placed and in active use.

      These cables DO contain valuable metals in them like copper, aluminum, and steel (probably stainless)?

      The resale value of underwater cable is pretty low - who will you sell it to? There aren't that many underwater cable owners, and they don't want to encourage theft.

      As scrap metal, the cost of separating the copper, aluminum & steel from the rest of the cable will be high.

    2. Re:Are Sea Cables "Abandoned & Salvageable"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, cables are not abandoned and therefore you can't go grab them.

      The legal setup to ensure this is quite complicated and interesting. The course of the cable is carefully published in maps so it's everyone's responsibility not to disturb that narrow channel. If you cut the cable inside the channel it's your fault, if you cut the cable outside the chanel it's the cable owner's fault.

      The practical setup to ensure this is also quite complicated and interesting. The cables have to be laid in a very narrow channel on the sea bed. So a ship has to carefully drop a cable two miles down to the sea floor---non trivial, so lots of high tech involved.

      Wired has an old article by Neil Stephenson in Dec 1996 on FLAG:
          http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass.html
      which is worth a read.

  54. 12 million internet users in Pakistan? by peektwice · · Score: 1
    The map says that 12 million internet users were affected in Pakistan. I bet they don't have that many computers connected to the internet. Looks like an overblown, made up, twisted statistic to me. Two things to remember:
    • 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot
    • Figures never lie, but liars always figure
    Besides, what ever happened to re-routing the traffic based on policy, distance vector, or path vector routing? Why are they completely cut off if only one entry point to their portion of the network was cut?
    --
    Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
    1. Re:12 million internet users in Pakistan? by Lewrker · · Score: 0
      Have you checked that anywhere ? Do you know ANYTHING about Pakistan ? Because a 20 second search on Wikipedia revealed that

      In January 2007, Pakistan Telecommunication Authority reported over 12 million internet users, however the low bandwidth is a concern for most. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_in_Pakistan
    2. Re:12 million internet users in Pakistan? by peektwice · · Score: 1

      And obviously, Wikipedia is an infallible source, and the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority would never inflate its numbers to its own benefit (if any).

      --
      Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
  55. "Tha facts have come out:" by cicho · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article has this to say on the cause of the damage:

    "According to reports, the internet blackout, which has left 75 million people with only limited access, was caused by a ship that tried to moor off the coast of Egypt in bad weather on Wednesday."

    According to whose reports? Published where? What was the name of the ship? How was it discovered that it caused all the damage? Is the same ship also responsible for the third cable cut, which did not occur in the Mediterranean, and later than Wednesday?

    This what you refer to as "facts". I sure hope you intended sarcasm.

    --
    "Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
  56. Hell Yeah! by newr00tic · · Score: 1

    The U2 is a plane, not a sea vessel!


    HELL YEAH THE PLANE TAKES OFF! (cutting some cables in the process.)

    --
    A horse can't be sick, you know, even if he wants to.
  57. Cool Map by snowlick · · Score: 1

    Check out this poster from which they made the graphic:

    http://www.telegeography.com/products/map_cable/index.php

    If it wasn't $250 I might pick one up.

    --
    Crystal Meth: Would you ingest somthing made from a poisonous gas and an explosive metal? You do it every day -- Salt!
  58. Gas pipelines in Manhattan by morcheeba · · Score: 1

    In 2004, the signs in the river next to manhattan warning ships of a submerged gas pipeline were removed -- I assume it was fear that someone would try to do this on purpose. But, I think that the increased chance of someone damaging it by dropping anchor outweighs the chance of intentional damage... but I feel safer now that these safety signs have been removed (sarcasm).

  59. in..(here) by newr00tic · · Score: 1

    Oh man, I'm so glad I live in the civilized western hemisphere! No crypto-fascist regimes and insane lead

    *NO CARRIER* ..From a Soviet Russian point of view..,

    *NO CARRIER*
    --
    A horse can't be sick, you know, even if he wants to.
  60. Cable made out of Irony by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    They have a survey on that page: "Have you been affected by the disruption to internet services? You can tell us your experiences using the form below:"

    Something tells me such a survey would not be very scientific.

  61. designed to survive nuclear war by peter303 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The InterNet's parent, the military ArpaNet, was designed with no head or center, in order to survive a major war. Root name servers are a bit of a weeakness. But wayward ships and elementary school hackers seem have a good shot too.

    1. Re:designed to survive nuclear war by Detritus · · Score: 1

      No, it wasn't. That is just a persistent myth. It was designed to allow the sharing of computer resources among ARPA researchers.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:designed to survive nuclear war by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Correct, however, do you really think that the myth wasn't on the Great Gore's mind when he took the initiative in voting for the bill which funded the agency that directed the research creating the internet?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    3. Re:designed to survive nuclear war by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Heh, you're mocking Gore for funding the internet as we know it, on the internet. That takes balls.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:designed to survive nuclear war by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I gave him nearly full credit, though. The infamous phrase "I took the initiative in creating the internet" is nothing if not technically correct. He also took the initiative in shamelessly taking credit for $ThingThatWasGood. And my point was that by the time he got on the bandwagon, I'm sure that the apocryphal damage tolerance was in many of the briefings.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  62. Re:I still don't buy it. by moxley · · Score: 1

    Obviously this Anonymous Coward needs lessons in semantics.

    I didn't call him a name, I didn't say he was crazy - I suggested his actions were childish. They added nothing.

    Neither do yours.

  63. Nano-Violin by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    The Indian stock markets had already closed when reports of the collapse first surfaced on Wednesday, but the impact of a 50% drop in bandwidth was being felt keenly yesterday - particularly by the country's expansive outsourcing industry.

    After seeing colleagues getting replaced by H1B's and outsourcing, I find it really hard to be sad about this.

    1. Re:Nano-Violin by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      No no. You're supposed to say

      After seeing colleagues getting replaced by H1B's and outsourcing, I find myself hoping for the rest of the cables to be cut.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
  64. Ok so who cut the second one on the other side? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok now there are TWO cuts - another that happened Friday. Care to explain this tidy coincidence?

  65. Re:Should be: How bad network d by slashdotmsiriv · · Score: 0, Redundant

    "TCP/IP is specifically designed to recover from link outages, if it doesn't, you've got an improperly designed and/or operated (statically, as opposed to dynamically, routed) network"

    That would be BGP, the interdomain routing protocol. TCP/IP is designed to recover from packet losses not day-long link outages.

  66. Bush? by KZigurs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought it was CIA or whatever name they are doing their secret operations under now screwing up major:
    1) existing splices rerouted thru existing infrastructure
    2) one of links fail
    3) splices give up and sever connection as it cannot be reliably copied anymore...

  67. 3rd cable cut by xenolon · · Score: 1

    i was just crawling google news and noticed that a 3rd cable had been cut off the coast of dubai.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSL0125034820080201

    details are scarce at this point, but i wonder if the the egypt cable was really an accident. or if it was, has it given some malefactors some ideas? could this turn into a way for political tensions to present themselves?

    i remember reading an article written by neal stephenson for wired in the late 90s. somewhere in it he addressed the issue of a 'fiber war' where nations and other actors would begin cutting undersea cables. it's an old article, but i remember some expert referring to it as 'mutually assured destruction'. (like nuclear war.) meaning that once a couple of cables are cut, it's so easy to cut more quickly, and pretty soon all the cables are cut relatively no time at all. an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind; or disconnected in this case.

  68. Cable no thicker than thumb at some points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The pair of cables -- which lie near each other on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea -- at some points are no thicker than the average human thumb."

    From CBC News: "No quick fix for undersea cables serving India"
    http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/01/tech-india.html

  69. Saw a post elsewhere about this by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    It's fairly clear that somebody is isolating the ME from the Net.

    It damn sure isn't Al Qaeda - they don't have submarines or diving equipment or even much motivation. Neither does anybody else I can think of including Russia and China.

    Israel and the US on the other hand do have both the hardware and the motivation.

    Likelihood in order of probability:

    1) Attack on Gaza by Israel - where numerous war crimes will be committed.

    2) Attack on Lebanon by Israel - ditto. Less likely than Gaza because of the Winograd report out this week.

    3) Attack on Iran by Israel - to bring the US into a war with Iran. This is Dick Cheney's preferred plan, since it allows him to bypass Congressional authorization and having to explain to anybody how the US got in the war.

    4) Attack by the US on Iran directly.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    1. Re:Saw a post elsewhere about this by mjwx · · Score: 1

      1) Attack on Gaza by Israel - where numerous war crimes will be committed.

      2) Attack on Lebanon by Israel - ditto. Less likely than Gaza because of the Winograd report out this week.

      3) Attack on Iran by Israel - to bring the US into a war with Iran. This is Dick Cheney's preferred plan, since it allows him to bypass Congressional authorization and having to explain to anybody how the US got in the war.

      4) Attack by the US on Iran directly.

      5) US loses another guerrilla war (this may take a few years for the US to notice).

      6) ???

      7) Profit
      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  70. Why so many undersea cables going to Alaska? by Traf-O-Data-Hater · · Score: 1

    The map in the Guardian article is quite interesting, the most amazing thing about it to me is there are three cables going to Anchorage Alaska with a fourth one planned. Why all that capacity? For a population of only 670 thousand (2006 estimate) I'm assuming they must have pretty darn good internet coverage and bandwidth there!

    1. Re:Why so many undersea cables going to Alaska? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The map in the Guardian article is quite interesting, the most amazing thing about it to me is there are three cables going to Anchorage Alaska with a fourth one planned. Why all that capacity?

      Why? Maybe it's just easier to service the cables when they are close to land, and Alaska is the last bit of North America before you hit Asia (ie Russia).

    2. Re:Why so many undersea cables going to Alaska? by justdrew · · Score: 1

      it's a landfall point for undersea cables to become land-based cables isn't it?

  71. $350. For a map. On PDF. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Wow, they're really asking $350 dollars for a digital copy of a map with some lines on it. I just couldn't beleive it until I saw it.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  72. huh? by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 1

    This article only mentions dependacy and after math. Its does explain the accidents at all.

  73. You can check the numbers yourself.... by killmofasta · · Score: 1

    Internet Traffic watch:

    http://www.internettrafficreport.com/asia.htm

    India is hanging by a thread,
    and Iran is offline.
    Did you know Colombia is offline too?
    Florida? ( well, actually, who cares about that...)

    Its kinda silly, with redundancy, the map of the world looks like a loop. Cut it in the middle, and you can still go around the other side, albet slowly. What about Satilite uplinks? Bolians CA hasnt a hope in hell of getting DSL, yet, their satilite works pretty fast, but there is a 6,000ms lag.

  74. You mean "Ship Happens" by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Re: "shift happens"

  75. Huh by Almahtar · · Score: 1

    This ought to be tagged as coming from the "Lack of Redundancy Department"

  76. Re:Everything into NYC? [Geography & Routing] by Wurm42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why do so many of those transatlantic cables seem to land in New York?

    Two Reasons: Geography and Routing

    1) Geography: First, the Guardian's map is a little oversimplified. Most of those cables come ashore in Eastern Long Island or along a relatively narrow stretch of New Jersey coastline, about 50 miles south of NYC proper. They're in those places because of submarine geography. The sea floor isn't flat- there are mountains and canyons, etc. Ever tried to run network cable through a crowded office? Pain in the neck, right? Now imagine doing it with six-foot long tweezers and a blindfold...for 3,000 miles. The cable-layers pick the flattest, least cluttered path they can. In the mid-1950s, we started to get good sonar maps of the North Atlantic sea floor. Laying undersea cable is *expensive*, and there was a big burst of it as those maps started to take the guesswork (and a lot of the risk) out of the equation. And once a company found a good route, they tended to keep using it.

    Seafloor mapping:
    http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/03fire/background/mapping/mapping.html

    Timeline of transatlantic cables, 1951-2000:
    http://www.atlantic-cable.com/Cables/CableTimeLine/index1951.htm

    2) Routing. A *lot* of information passes through those cables. It's compressed (Hoffman encoding, anyone?), and at each end you have to decompress it and then route it back into the land line system. This is a big, complicated operation (Much more so in the '50s and '60s when so many of the US-Europe cables were laid), and it's cheaper to add capacity by laying more cables between existing terminals than to build new ones.

    Overview of cable topography & operations for one big cable operator, Apollo Systems:
    http://www.apollo-scs.com/networktopology/

    Note that some companies (including Apollo) are starting to build new routes- the economics for doing that are getting better as cable gets cheaper and data traffic grows (shame on all the Americans downloading video files from peers in Sweden).

    So yes, the undersea cable system *should* have much more redundancy, but it *won't* until somebody can make money building and selling that redundant capacity. And actually, these events will speed up that process; According to the Guardian, 50% of India's bandwidth is cut off. The people who own the pipes for the 50% that still works are having a *very* profitable week.

  77. All I can say by kilodelta · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is that since the cable cut my spam folders and inbox have been blessedly free of spam! I always say, you want to cut the crap with email and phishing, cutoff the net connections to Africa and Asia.

  78. Whew! by PPH · · Score: 2, Funny

    This explains why I haven't heard back from my Nigerian banker.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  79. Prevention by PPH · · Score: 1
    Patrol the cable routes and protect them from damage.

    We finally have an application for all those sharks with lasers.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  80. "as far west as Bangladesh" by dirtyhippie · · Score: 1

    Last time I checked, bangladesh is WEST of the other affected places like India, etc. Sometimes I wish everything was a wiki.

    1. Re:"as far west as Bangladesh" by Don_dumb · · Score: 1

      I didn't know whether to MOD this funny or not. Someone help.

      --
      If this were really happening, what would you think?
    2. Re:"as far west as Bangladesh" by dirtyhippie · · Score: 1

      Oh dear lord, I missed the crucial word "NOT"... What I meant to say was:

      Last time I checked, bangladesh is EAST, not west of the other affected places like India, etc. Sometimes I wish everything was a wiki.

      The real question is - is that further proof that everything should be a wiki, or disproof? Discuss :-)

  81. Hmmm. by jd · · Score: 1

    Can the Lack Of Redundancy Department be guilty of a dupe? In order to be a genuine lack of redundancy, it would need to be The Redundancy, Lack thereof, As Pertains To The Lack Of Redundancy Department.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  82. Re:I still don't buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow are you serious? YOU are teach a lesson in semantics?
    Calling someone crazy is name calling.
    Calling someone a child not name calling?
    Sorry, I guess you are going to have to dumb down that complicated semantic logic for me.

  83. The reason for the cables being cut. by Cr0vv · · Score: 0

    It is the African Rift pulling apart, tightening and raising the cables to be caught by ships anchors. What is causing the African Rift to pull apart, is another question that can be answered. Crow.

  84. 'scuse us while we tap your fiber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is widely *claimed* to be a mistake but that's the ideal cover for tapping the fiber, isn't it?

  85. it was the NSA by vaporland · · Score: 1

    they were trying to tap the entire Middle East's internet traffic, since (imagine!) it all travels through a single choke-point...

    --
    Ask Me About... The 80's!
  86. Re:Everything into NYC? [Geography & Routing] by thesolo · · Score: 1

    Thank you, great post!

  87. WHO BENEFITS? by Rockin'Robert · · Score: 0

    Have you ever run up a HUGE: credit card, mortgage, gambling or - in other words - national DEBT?
    Have you ever done everything in your power (legit or not) to get out, or delay the consequences, of that DEBT?
    FIND: http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1067.htm for an intereting 'take' on the odd collapse of the internet in the MIDDLE EAST.
    RR

  88. Conspiracy? Fraud? by egnop · · Score: 1

    -- as European banking traffic to the Emirates now has to flow all the way around the world the wrong way, and many of the intermediate carriers are choking on the traffic.

    Now this feels like conspiracy from the US, as they have all the European Emirates/Asia traffic going thru US cables, to manipulate numbers and such in between. The value of the dollar is dropping at a rate the US cannot handle. Or maybe just to webify them causing slower connections might even do the trick.

    When manipulating other countries you could deflate theirs, or inflate yours...

  89. SABOTAGE? Ecomonic Warfare? Surely not. by Rockin'Robert · · Score: 0

    Subject: RE: 'Collapse' of the internet? An accident? Cui bono?
    Have you ever run up HUGE (credit card, mortgage, utilities, gambling or - perchance - MONSTROUS 'national') DEBT?
    Have you ever done everything in your power (legit or not) to get out, or delay the consequences, of that DEBT?
    FIND: http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1067.htm [whatdoesitmean.com] for an interesting 'take' on the odd collapse of the internet in the MIDDLE EAST www 'failure'.
    WAS IT DELIBERATELY DONE - TO PUNISH:
    THE SAUDIS TO DELAY THEIR DUMPING OF U$D, plus
    CRIPPLE OPEC for not increasing oil output and
    other FINANCIAL issues ???
    FIND AN 'OFFICIAL' VERSION AND SPIN:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/01/internationalpersonalfinancebusiness.internet
    Notice that the article DOES NOT INVITE READER COMMENTS - hence, no one with technical savvy or inside info can REFUTE OR CORRECT IT!
    SEE THE WWW MAP - again!
    http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Technology/Pix/pictures/2008/02/01/SeaCableHi.jpg
    INTERNET CUT
    http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/02/145231
    Complete with the uusal: wit, pithy trolls, flamebaiters, disinfo artistes/agents, expert techies and deluded GUNG-HOs. LOL! OMG! Look 'HERE' not T-H-E-R-E!
    Cui bono?
    WHO BENEFITS?
    RR

  90. Ships did not cause Internet cable damage by Devar · · Score: 1
    And now, after everyone thinks a ship did it (three cables in three days? really? what are the odds...), comes this story via AFP.

    Ships did not cause Internet cable damage

    Agence France-Presse
    Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:57 EST

    CAIRO - Damage to undersea Internet cables in the Mediterranean that hit business across the Middle East and South Asia was not caused by ships, Egypt's communications ministry said on Sunday, ruling out earlier reports.

    The transport ministry added that footage recorded by onshore video cameras of the location of the cables showed no maritime traffic in the area when the cables were damaged.

    'The ministry's maritime transport committee reviewed footage covering the period of 12 hours before and 12 hours after the cables were cut and no ships sailed the area,' a statement said.

    'The area is also marked on maps as a no-go zone and it is therefore ruled out that the damage to the cables was caused by ships,' the statement added.

    Two cables were damaged earlier this week in the Mediterranean sea and another off the coast of Dubai, causing widespread disruption to Internet and international telephone services in Egypt, Gulf Arab states and South Asia.

    A fourth cable linking Qatar to the United Arab Emirates was damaged on Sunday causing yet more disruptions, telecommunication provider Qtel said.

    Earlier reports said that the damage had been caused by ships that had been diverted off their usual route because of bad weather.

    Egypt's communication and information technology ministry said it would report its findings to the owners of the two damaged Mediterranean cables, FLAG Telecom and SEA-ME-WE4.

    A repair ship was expected to begin work to fix the two Mediterranean cables on Tuesday.
    --
    It's a Bagel.