There's a clear difference in ordering of results for certain keywords when I'm signed in to Gmail, and when I'm not. This even as I've switched off storing of my search history.
Actually, a more pertinent point here is that Google has refused to maintain any identifiable information from its China-based users; note that Blogspot and Gmail are not operating in China.
The question here is whether the inventions or discoveries stated in the website, or in this thread, were directly caused by, as it were, Islam. My contention here is that they aren't; certainly, I'd assert that the Arabic translations of Greek classics were a result of a society that was uniquely open-minded for its age, and that it is this open-minded-ness, not any single religion, that was the reason there was so much discovery and invention.
Or are you suggesting that we equate "Arab" with "Muslim"?
As for Omar Khayyam... well, I liked (the English translation of) The Rubiyat, and given its praise of wine, women and fun, I've always thought it was un-religious. Would love to read any spiritualization, if I may use the term, of his works, if you have any references.
Heh, good observation; won't claim I wasn't aware of the etymology here, but naturally, wasn't consciously using the term because of its Arabic roots.
On a related note, most of terms associated with legalese in my mother tongue, Telugu, are actually Persian in origin. Which is perhaps unsurprising, given that (classical) Persian, and its later off-shoot, Urdu, was the court language for most of the last Millenium across the sub-continent, including, it so happens, during the British Raj (and just after that); the First Information Report (FIR) filed for Mahatma Gandhi's death was in Urdu, for instance.
I also stated that religion may have provided the direct motive for certain inventions.
And I was trying to demonstrate that, at least with regards to the calendar, there isn't much of an evidence to say so. In fact, I'll even add to say that prayer timings aren't really determined by astronomical calculations; Islam is, incidentally, unique here in that it follows a purely lunar calendar coupled with observational rules to determine the exact date of Eid-ul-Fitr, to take an example. Clearly, astronomical accuracy wasn't really a priority for whoever designed this calendar; it'd be a very hard argument to suggest that astronomy benefitted greatly because of the creation of this calendar. This, naturally, is not to say that Persian/Arab astronomers were all bunkum, the benefits of a clear desert night-sky over a cloudy tropical one cannot be understated, just saying that religion wasn't their primary driving force as you stated.
Now, otoh, had you suggested that, say, the construction of the Blue Mosque at Estefan led to an improvement in architectural technologies, for example, I'd have granted you the point (which is more of an analoy to the pyramids). As it stands, the list on the website is a steaming pile of crap; there's absolutely nothing inherently Islamic about coffee or tulips or fountain pens, to cite three random items from the website.
I used the term Islamic centers of excellence as a short-hand to distinguish Ottoman and Persian products described here from those produced in Western spheres of influence. While I appreciate the fact that there has been a civilizational excellence in most of what's now called the Middle East, to label those (and to confusingly jumble those with wholly un-connected ones in North Africa and South Asia) as being "Islamic" is doing a disservice to the ethnic diversity and inclusiveness that these cities stood for. Surely, in these Clash-of-Civilization times, that's a better message than hyping "Islamic science"?
There's a huge tract of scientific literature out there that credits a pan Greco-Chaldean (that's Greeks, Romans, Bactrians, ancient Persians, Indo-Greeks some of who may or may not have been Muslim; the Indo-Greeks of Gandhara, or Kandhahar, as the city is now known, were Buddhist, for instance) tradition with most of the astronomic contributions lately. For instance, it was the Greco-Chaldeans who introduced solar measurements into Indic astronomy, with the result that South Asians stopped following a five-year yuga-cycle, and instead started following the solar-yearly samvatsara instead.
As such, to account for Al Kharismi's genius and Omar Khayyam's literary talent to their religion is as short-sighted as saying Einstein was brilliant because he was a Jew. At their respective zeniths, Islamic centers of excellence such as Istanbul, Baghdad or Kabul weren't solely Muslim; they were uniquely multi-cultural unlike the west European centers of power then. Civilizational excellence knows no religion, only regional decay does.
Until last year, the guy who's posted this story to Slashdot used to live in the very room I am posting from. In all my interactions with him, he didn't quite strike as a person who'd be looking up fossil-ized rat-squirrels, and seeing if they were indeed alive, much less pick them from the local wet-market and make kebabs out of them.
So, gokulpod, while it's a known fact that I've dirtied the room more than you could ever imagine, should I nevertheless investigate the nether regions of your old wardrobe and really find out what's inside? Now that your true inclinations are out of the closet, I foresee a few skeletons dropping out of that cupboard.
Must add, though, that in per capita terms, you can easily argue that India/China/Russia are actually worse off than the US when it comes to doing Masters; it's just that the middle, and upper middle, classes somehow have this notion that doing grad school in engineering (and engineering alone!) is the ticket to greater prosperity.
Me? I'm in the same boat; loads of parental pressure to get back to grad school, but personally, I'd like to spend some time off and discover what I really want to do. The odds are definitely against doing a technical masters.
While I pretty much agree with you on housing costs, must point out that, ironically enough, Bombay has one of the costliest housing markets out there in PPP terms. Even in actual terms, costs in urban India seem to reach international levels pretty fast; an average cab ride in Mumbai, for instance, is much more expensive than what it is here in Singapore. The same for cinema tickets.
The way I read it, they're saying two things: first, that we background-process a lot more we're aware of, and second, that the decisions we come to after an extended background-processing session are the ones that we're the most comfortable with. Whether they're correct or not, and the actual modalities of the chain of thoughts that brought us to that decision are extraneous factors.
I'm assuming you're in the US, but that's how it is for most of us non-US-ians. When I first go to www.google.com here, the page automatically redirects me to www.google.com.sg, but has a prominent link below pointing to www.google.com. Normal behaviour, nothing out-of-the-ordinary here.
Sorry, didnt get you on this: Cambodia archives the shapes of its citizens? Or are you saying the Khmer Rouge tortured people because it had access to some secret data-dump?
ZX Spectrum+ here, when I was 8 or 9. Wrote (actually copied and modified) a quick program to fill the television screen with my name in different colours. Exclaimed, "My god, it's full of stars!" Been hooked on eversince.
The general impression I get is that Slashdot is generally tolerated, appreciated even, in these parts (aka South East Asian cubicles), most sys-admins and bosses are singularly ignorant about the crap-fest that is the comments section. Not too many hardcore/.-tters out here, it seems. (Although must be mentioned here that the National University of Singapore's network, and a prominent ISP in Singapore, StarHub, were both banned here a while back. I'm suspecting a lone bored kid in univ causing havoc.)
I usually walk past my area's video store during my evening strolls, but I stll subscribe to our local Netflix-lookalike because of its wider selection. I like to watch Latin American and French movies, and the Netflix-lookalike is the only source out here for high-quality DVD's.
Oh we love our Maharaja burgers and our veggie patty meals.:-)
Seriously though, haven't been to an Indian McD's as yet, but I understand they don't serve beef there. Still, for the record, beef is freely available in India; it's called Kalyani Biryani in my hometown and, I understand, Kerala makes its own version of a beef korma or something.
None of this, naturally, is to say that we don't have violent mobs trying to enforce their own agenda in the name of Hinduism, of course.
Slashdot Mirror
There's a clear difference in ordering of results for certain keywords when I'm signed in to Gmail, and when I'm not. This even as I've switched off storing of my search history.
Actually, a more pertinent point here is that Google has refused to maintain any identifiable information from its China-based users; note that Blogspot and Gmail are not operating in China.
I'd be more concerned about Martian censors here on earth. :-)
Or are you suggesting that we equate "Arab" with "Muslim"?
As for Omar Khayyam... well, I liked (the English translation of) The Rubiyat, and given its praise of wine, women and fun, I've always thought it was un-religious. Would love to read any spiritualization, if I may use the term, of his works, if you have any references.
On a related note, most of terms associated with legalese in my mother tongue, Telugu, are actually Persian in origin. Which is perhaps unsurprising, given that (classical) Persian, and its later off-shoot, Urdu, was the court language for most of the last Millenium across the sub-continent, including, it so happens, during the British Raj (and just after that); the First Information Report (FIR) filed for Mahatma Gandhi's death was in Urdu, for instance.
Now, otoh, had you suggested that, say, the construction of the Blue Mosque at Estefan led to an improvement in architectural technologies, for example, I'd have granted you the point (which is more of an analoy to the pyramids). As it stands, the list on the website is a steaming pile of crap; there's absolutely nothing inherently Islamic about coffee or tulips or fountain pens, to cite three random items from the website.
I used the term Islamic centers of excellence as a short-hand to distinguish Ottoman and Persian products described here from those produced in Western spheres of influence. While I appreciate the fact that there has been a civilizational excellence in most of what's now called the Middle East, to label those (and to confusingly jumble those with wholly un-connected ones in North Africa and South Asia) as being "Islamic" is doing a disservice to the ethnic diversity and inclusiveness that these cities stood for. Surely, in these Clash-of-Civilization times, that's a better message than hyping "Islamic science"?
So you'd like to replace one form of bigotry with another?
As such, to account for Al Kharismi's genius and Omar Khayyam's literary talent to their religion is as short-sighted as saying Einstein was brilliant because he was a Jew. At their respective zeniths, Islamic centers of excellence such as Istanbul, Baghdad or Kabul weren't solely Muslim; they were uniquely multi-cultural unlike the west European centers of power then. Civilizational excellence knows no religion, only regional decay does.
There's a 'that' missing somewhere.
So, gokulpod, while it's a known fact that I've dirtied the room more than you could ever imagine, should I nevertheless investigate the nether regions of your old wardrobe and really find out what's inside? Now that your true inclinations are out of the closet, I foresee a few skeletons dropping out of that cupboard.
I know my flatmate would, but IMHO, the ability to handle 25 gigs/week for one account is a bit too much to ask for even for Google. ;-)
Me? I'm in the same boat; loads of parental pressure to get back to grad school, but personally, I'd like to spend some time off and discover what I really want to do. The odds are definitely against doing a technical masters.
That Britain link should have been this, sorry.
While I pretty much agree with you on housing costs, must point out that, ironically enough, Bombay has one of the costliest housing markets out there in PPP terms. Even in actual terms, costs in urban India seem to reach international levels pretty fast; an average cab ride in Mumbai, for instance, is much more expensive than what it is here in Singapore. The same for cinema tickets.
The way I read it, they're saying two things: first, that we background-process a lot more we're aware of, and second, that the decisions we come to after an extended background-processing session are the ones that we're the most comfortable with. Whether they're correct or not, and the actual modalities of the chain of thoughts that brought us to that decision are extraneous factors.
I'm assuming you're in the US, but that's how it is for most of us non-US-ians. When I first go to www.google.com here, the page automatically redirects me to www.google.com.sg, but has a prominent link below pointing to www.google.com. Normal behaviour, nothing out-of-the-ordinary here.
Sorry, didnt get you on this: Cambodia archives the shapes of its citizens? Or are you saying the Khmer Rouge tortured people because it had access to some secret data-dump?
ZX Spectrum+ here, when I was 8 or 9. Wrote (actually copied and modified) a quick program to fill the television screen with my name in different colours. Exclaimed, "My god, it's full of stars!" Been hooked on eversince.
The general impression I get is that Slashdot is generally tolerated, appreciated even, in these parts (aka South East Asian cubicles), most sys-admins and bosses are singularly ignorant about the crap-fest that is the comments section. Not too many hardcore /.-tters out here, it seems. (Although must be mentioned here that the National University of Singapore's network, and a prominent ISP in Singapore, StarHub, were both banned here a while back. I'm suspecting a lone bored kid in univ causing havoc.)
I usually walk past my area's video store during my evening strolls, but I stll subscribe to our local Netflix-lookalike because of its wider selection. I like to watch Latin American and French movies, and the Netflix-lookalike is the only source out here for high-quality DVD's.
Seriously though, haven't been to an Indian McD's as yet, but I understand they don't serve beef there. Still, for the record, beef is freely available in India; it's called Kalyani Biryani in my hometown and, I understand, Kerala makes its own version of a beef korma or something.
None of this, naturally, is to say that we don't have violent mobs trying to enforce their own agenda in the name of Hinduism, of course.