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Fossil Rises From its Grave
gokulpod writes "Scientific American reports that a family of animals known as Diatomyidae thought to have been dead for 11 million years has been discovered in Laos. From the article: 'Fossilized remnants of this group have been found throughout Asia with a distinctive jaw structure and molars. It represents a rare opportunity to compare assumptions derived from the fossil record and an actual living specimen to determine overall accuracy of the techniques involved. This discovery also provides a compelling argument for preservation efforts in Southeast Asia.'"
but i would have preferred something called a "rat-squirrel" remain extinct
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I for one welcome our new fossilized overlords.
Let's introduce this little guy to the TRS-80, a '59 Chevy, and the reincarnated ghost of Archie Bunker!
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Any word on bigfoot?
You don't have to find an animal previously believed extinct. There are millions of species around. Just put together case studies of known living animals. Then have a group unfamiliar with the species of interest try to predict its characteristics from genealogical family members.
Is this another Coelacanth?
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
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Stuck in the slow lane?
Or 3,900 years...depending on whether you are wrong or not. Jesus saves!
http://www.shockabsorber.co.uk/bounceometer/shock. html
.....you say fossil rising from the grave.....
I call her my wife...
But has it POWERED UP yet?
Sorry, couldn't resist....
Much like Bob the dinosaur, the Diatomyidae has simply been in hiding.
And also
The reports of Diatomyidae's extinction have been premature. To correct this, the Museum of Natural History has offered $1000 for every dead Diatomyidae brought to them, as this is cheaper than correcting the records of Diatomyidae's extinction. And would make the scientists right again.
Does this mean I can finally have my Ribwich again?
You posted on March 11 at 11:11PM. That is impressive.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
... incase he's hungry later.
Knowledge of the Laotian rock rat has been around for about a decade now, but it was originally classified in a new family, prior to its connection to the 11 million year old family.
A burning question... does this call into question the carbon dating methods that "proved" this creature was 11 million years old? Or does this finally prove that these creatures have resurrected from their fossilized remains?
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
"It represents a rare opportunity to compare assumptions derived from the fossil record and an actual living specimen to determine overall accuracy of the techniques involved. This discovery also provides a compelling argument for preservation efforts in Southeast Asia.'" Flawed statement for two reasons: a) If you could compare million years old fossils with today's living creatures of the same species to determine the accuracy of the technique, why not do it for animals known to have existed that far back (e.g crocodiles, some iguanas etc) b) Most importantly, if they find inaccuracies in the conclusions extracted from the fossil record of the thought to be extinct animal, how can they be sure that it is not evolution that caused the differences? In other words, the species in question involved a little, so that it does not match the fossil record. Point (b) also counters my point (a).
Why is it that a species thought to be extinct for 11 million years has now just been found, but somehow we seem to think we know the exact number of panda bears and such?
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6736485077 799381484
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thx, that was goood
Millions of years in the grave and it didn't even notice.
A few of their watches are nice though.
Why preserve it? It's obviously been doing just fine for 11 million years.
Also, why should we? I had evolution beat into my brain by every single environmental science teacher I've had since grade school. "Survival of the fittest", natural selection, and all that jazz. Then in the very same classes, and by the very same teachers, I'm told how nothing should ever go extinct and that if anything does that's a bad thing. Extinction is not a bad thing. Over 90% of the animals that ever existed are extinct and thanks to those animals going away, we now have the exotic animals we have today, including humans.
Let the animal be, if it dies then that makes more room for some other animal that can fill the gap. If it lives and flourishes then so be it. Stop pretending to be God and control the natural evolution of animals. For people that don't believe in God, liberal extremists sure do think they are one.
This discovery also provides a compelling argument for preservation efforts in Southeast Asia.
I would say definitely this does not provide such an arguement at all.
Obviously, these animals have done fine without scientists meddling around in their habitat. I read an article (possibly the linked article) about these animals a few days ago, and the scientists were 'eager' to trap a few live.
Uh... I guess they'll need 'further funding' for the effort as well, we can figure.
Habitat preservation is a serious issue, and I am not going to pretend it isn't important. But let's be real, the animals did fine without it up to this point, so this is hardly an instance where the evidence shows a 'compelling arguement.' It's just a newly discovered species.
I thought my watch was coming back into style.
Funny how it mysteriously hasn't evolved at all over the last 11 million years...
So Scrat really did survive the Ice Age.
Deze sig is in 't Nederlands geschreven.
After 11 million years, I'd expect the descendants of those fossils to have evolved considerably... and yet, apparently, they haven't. It's like 11 million years of relative evolutionary stasis.
You can run but you can't hide, except, apparently, along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
So, gokulpod, while it's a known fact that I've dirtied the room more than you could ever imagine, should I nevertheless investigate the nether regions of your old wardrobe and really find out what's inside? Now that your true inclinations are out of the closet, I foresee a few skeletons dropping out of that cupboard.
More than mere navel gazing.
There's a 'that' missing somewhere.
More than mere navel gazing.
Panda bears, polar bears, African elephants, all of the surviving Great Apes etc, fall into the former category. This makes the territory easy to explore. It also means that the region will likely be heavily surveyed by both corporations and environmentalists, each trying to win concessions to their perspective.
(Having said that, even well-studied populations aren't necessarily as well-understood as thought. At least one species of dolphin off the coast of New Zealand has turned out to really be two distinct species - drastically reducing the population of the first group. A group of Right Whales off the coast of Australia has also been demonstrated to really be multiple, genetically distinct species.)
Extremely remote locations aren't as well-studied. It's much harder to send undergraduates to remote islands around Papau New Guinea. No beer. Very remote locations are extremely difficult and expensive to study, so they generally aren't. This is where the bulk of "new species" and "rediscovered species" are found. These locations are generally under much less pressure, which means that amateur and semi-professional researchers are unlikely to take the time and effort to go - they're generally needed much more elsewhere.
Then, you've the problem of extremely small animals. The rediscovered woodpecker in North America is not the biggest bird on Earth, is highly mobile (duh!), blends in well with the environment, and is very probably terrified of people - the only people who go into that particular woodland being hunters. This rat-squirrel is likely smaller still, probably bleds in a lot better, and has had 11 million years of practice at running away.
Finally, numbers are very important. If you mis-count by 10 out of 1000 elephants, the number is basically still the same. If you mis-count by 10 the number of Yahtzee River dolphins (of which there are somewhere between 0 and 33 left), it is somewhat more significant. The scientists have not seen any of these rat-squirrels alive and only the one that was caught. As far as anyone is concerned, that may have been the last one alive - at present, we have no evidence to the contrary. If populations have been extremely low and highly localized, which is likely the case, then it was sheer chance that it was ever seen at all. See the story behind the discovery of the Wollemi Pine for other such discoveries.
(Numbers are absolutely critical when it comes to observing small species. It's easier to see one rhino from a mile off than ten dormice from a hundred feet, or a hundred fairy shrimp from five paces. As such, you need comparitively VAST numbers before you are likely to ever see anything at all.)
I don't completely trust the population counts (see my comments about genetically distinct species) but the observations I've seen would imply the counts may be far too high in some cases, NOT the other way round. There will unquestionably be more "living fossils" discovered over time, but the numbers will remain insignficant compared to the number of species that have genuinely been driven extinct - by "natural causes" or by human activity. This find ADDS to the urgency of efforts to save what there is, not the other way round.
(For a start, if its nearest cousin died off 11 million years ago, the population is likely genetically very similar, leaving it vulnerable to disease and genetic disorders. There is also no possibility of bolstering numbers through cross-breeding efforts - a rescue tactic used by some conservationists when "pure" populations are simply not possible any longer, as there's nothing left on Earth that will be even remotely close enough.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/rock-rat-back- from-extinction/2006/03/11/1141701733549.html
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TO GP : Because C14 dating goes only so far as a few 10 of thousands of year this is not even in question. Google for yourself, or go to wiki, I am tired to provide the link each time an evolution/carbon dating/fossile question pop up. For period of time this big other radio element with longer half-life or other method are used. This bring me to this rant : in these day of age with a wiki and google why is it so difficult to check fact for yourself ?
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Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Next thing you know, some one will discover a BSD installation in the wild.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
argument for preservation efforts in Southeast Asia. And if you believe in Intellgent Design, it provides compelling argument that the earth is very young, or how could they have survived.
Pandas aren't spotted.
They're black and white and red all over.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
The Yahtzee river dolphins are freaks of nature developed by Hasbro entertainment as a stunt of genetic engineering, and should be removed from the natural cycle.
I believe you mean Yangtze river dolphins.
Lol, you really have to feel bad for the evolutionists and their 'theory' when news like this gets out.
You have the coelecancth, several marine corals, and now this. All thought to be exitinct. All found living. It's freaking hilarious. The end of evolution as a viable theory widely accepted cannot come soon enough, in order for a reexamination of evidence to provide the way to the truth - which is supposed to be the goal of scientific inquiry. We cannot automatically rule out a Creator if the evidence validly points to one.
Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
Really, now - I think you meant "Rat Not Dead Yet"
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A headline with the phrase "Rise from the grave" and not one reference to Altered Beast out of hundreds of comments?! You guys are really falling off. That is just terrible.
Aren't we something like 60% like a potatoe in terms of DNA?
The GP said they are EASY to spot. It doesnt matter what colour they are now.
If one wanted to paint spots on animals, a big panda would be a much easier target than some small Laotian rock rat which one probably wouldn't even be able to chase.
anyone for a kebab? http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/mg1862500 5.600.html/
You'd think that after 10 million years that they'd get tired of being a stinkin rat squirrel.
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It is, but we only see the part of the creature that protrudes into our 3-dimensional understanding of space/time.
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I hate it when people keep on necromancing long-dead species. I'm short on Turn Undead spells already without having to spend them on zombie rock rats...
It represents a rare opportunity to compare assumptions derived from the fossil record and an actual living specimen to determine overall accuracy of the techniques involved. This discovery also provides a compelling argument for preservation efforts in Southeast Asia.
It also provides a compelling argument that the world might not be as old as we think it is.
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Anyone for rat pudding !?....
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This got me thinking. I bet the first thing that scientist do when they reach an advanced state of genetic engineering is resurrect the Dodo, just to shut people up who use that annoying phrase.
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