don't be a clown....you have no idea how much "DOS"(or slight derivatives of it) is still VERY much in use around you...every single minute of every single day. Get real....just because M$ spends more money in advertising.NET, or Sun in Java, doesn't mean that older technologies aren't still very much in use.
I agree, I have stopped taking the Gartner group seriously because too many of their reports in the past are highly skewed, and wreak of funding from some party interested in the "findings" leaning in their favor.
And as for the sales pitch, you could almost tell it was coming from the moment they brought up Compuware.
Wrong, it's within the scope of the topic because the originting comment ot the thread specifically said that 90% of the investments in those offshoring ventures are from the U.S.
"Mutual fund managers, for example, typically receive a percentage of the fund value every year"
Half Truth Alert ! What you neglect to mention is that they not only get paid for performance ( oh that their BMW payment was DIRECTLY tied to the fund's performance !), but also how many unknowing saps they get to BUY in to the fund ( loaded or not ), because better funded funds generally "appear" to be performing, to the "public" en masse.
Frankly, I think the whole "funds" business should be completely contingency based, with a cap on the said "peformance percentage" that the manager is remunerated. Taking 30% of a 5% increased ( I'm being conservative, of course )100 million fund is still a ridiculously high contingency fee ratio. Especially since you usually find that most managers aren't in fact managers of just any given single fund.
Yes, but not at the cost of lowering mine and others around me, certainly not my kids. People who came before us in this country fought hard, paid their dues ( as many of us do ) to get to where we are. Just because companies are greedy, doesn't preclude my right nor my opinion that their conduct is unethical. The point of paying taxes, which you so casually dismiss, is that the taxes paid for their work here, goes back into the system here. Not over there. If they want a higher quality of life, then let them play in a level playing field. Sure...go ahead..TRY to level the economies...that's not going to make a bit of difference. We saw it with the textile industry here in the United States, and it's happened elsewhere....
Now this is a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one. The creation something that parodies currency is far out there, but the argument you're putting forward is just ridiculous.
Fine....take the word clown out of the last post. The argument is still valid. No one said that making a facsimile of legal tender wasn't an offense, but if you wanted to make an parody of it, isn't.
Gee...I wonder what country it is you're talking about....Hmm..could it be the country with 1 in 6 of us in the planet ? Could it be the one with 1 in 8 ? It sure as heck isn't this one.
What gives me the right to speak against is that I pay taxes ( more in fact percentage-wise than most corporations do ) which in part ( albeit a per-capita small one ) towards the salaries of those people who're are supposedly supposed to be watchful of the welfare of it's people.
Look, since it apparently isn't bothering you that much, or not affecting your wonderful country, what the FUCK, do you have to complain about my comments. If you don't agree, so what, no loss to you. Let the person have their say, it's not like you're losing a meal, right ? Normally I like Canadians, but you sir, make Bob and Doug McKenzie look like geniuses by logical argument standards.
"certain rights are not more important than other rights"
Exactly, clown. That's the point he/she was trying to make. It's not the point that whether printing a Trillion dollar bill would be stupid or not( like the Bill Clinton 3 dollar bills are ). It's that the the government having the right to print currency, and it having the right ( given to it by the PEOPLE, mind you ) to prosecute someone who does counterfeit currency, does NOT supercede the right to express your personal opinion by making a spoof.
I have. You suggestion of "inevitability" is sophomoric. What ? Expressing sour grapes over the World Court upholding the tariffs on "dumped" Canadian lumber still sticking in your craw ? It's ok when your country "pulls a fast one", but it's not O.K. when others do ?
Until you actually have a constructive comment, go back into your glass house. And be patient.
Both you, and the a$$ clown who responded to your post first are idiots. Of course, I have a right to have my country ensure that there are jobs available. I've paid taxes going towards their salaries long enough, so did my parents and their parents before. What makes you think that some other country by virtue of keeping it's people within strict social classes ( or let's call them what they are, castes ) has the Vishnu or Buddha given right to them ?
Get real. If you really want jobs from American countries..move HERE. Pay taxes HERE. Raise your children HERE.
And as for Mr. 700 Club sarcasm, get IN TOUCH with reality and a bit less with YOURSELF! Not everyone arguing against outsourcing is a fundamentalist Christian radical. putz....
There is a redistributable package that's found on the MSDN. It's not easy to locate, I'll grant you that. While I don't think Joel is an idiot ( I'm curious why you think so ), he's at least a curmudgeon with conviction, and I'll grant him that much.
I'm not a "real big fan" of.Net, but I see it as an "evil that must be wielded, but kept in check". I don't think that Microsoft has a terribly efficient record of keeping their word on a timeliness of delivery, nor adherence to commitments for said deliveries. It's a personal observation from based on past personal experience dealing with them during the development of OS/2, and since then. It doesn't make me terribly confident that they aren't going to just say "fudge it" within their own desktop or backend server suite of products, and skirt around certain features of.Net. The Win32 API isn't going away any time soon ( Yeah...you try writing a system service in.NET, good luck.), but I'm sorry if I'm not left with this "Don't fence me in" impression about.NET.
I disagree with you, because you can get the "Framework" package to only install the run-time, but end users don't know the difference from a hole in the wall (most of the time). And they couldn't care less. I wasn't arguing that Salamander wasn't a good product. But the fact is that it still generates an assembly, which, even though seriously obfuscated, can still be decompiled a whole lot easier than most stand-alone EXE's.
I did find a little redeeming humor at your response. "a long time now(2 years)". Dude, that's not a long time. Talk to me after.Net has been around a decade. After it's been banged around a bit. That's...a long time. Just because you and I ( 3 years ) have been programming it for a while, doesn't necessarily make it classify it as a "long time". Now, if you talk "C" ( almost 20 years )...now that, is a relatively long time. Just as someone who's been doing Fortran for 40 years (Any of you guys still out there ? ) might tell ME, that I haven't been programming something that's been around, "a long time". Careful that you don't ascribe the connotation of MATURITY, to something that's barely crawled out of the primordial swamp ( even IF Anders Heljsberg first developed the prototype for.Net over 10 years ago ).
Are you high or something...of course you still need.Net. You don't need the FRAMEWORK, but you do need the runtime, which is still significant in size. Perhaps you should garner a little experience in.Net yourself, before you spew massive chunks.
Nobody said "I'm better than him over there!"....are you insane. People in other parts of the world are in no better position to talk about "Human Rights" than anyone else. Let's ask the peaceful swiss where the money from Holocaust victims is ? Talk to me about why the US had to go over to Monrovia last year ? How long exactly has the caste system existed in India, and how long have the french thought that when it suits them they can claim to be the bastions of enlightened handling of dictators ?
So in the end result, you are right, no one has the right to say "I'm better at this, or that", but you know what ? That's not the point anyone's arguing here. Grow up already ! Either that, or realize that when jobs go to even poorer nations, and they will trust me, you won't be in a position to moan and bitch about it.
Or rather you don't do it because you want to keep your job *and* don't want to goto jail(your reason has the hidden implication btw, that if you could get away with you would be happy to do it. Are all Americans so ethically and morally corrupt then ?:-) Sorry, but you did suggest that the rest of the world is. )
That's because it is....Has India ditched it's caste system completely ? ( Yeah, right ? Tell that excuse to someone who might believe you. ). Has Russia stopped decimating Chechnyans, and vice versa ? Please! Has China held free elections ? Has Pakistan finally owned up to Khan's stealing Nuclear enrichment techniques from the Dutch, and then selling it to North Korea, Libya, Iran ? Please go sell that tripe to someone else.
Slashdot Mirror
Is the disclaimer listed as a "doctrine"...."this is not a marketing or lead generation tool".....yeah, right...
Don't be an A$$ Clown. So you'd rather they chose a almost frozen over, liberal infested place like Massachussetts ? Get serious....
You're right..I did..thanks for the catch, I was perhaps just finished playing SoCom, and it must've still been on my mind...oh well..
True...but Marketing is meant to emphasize the positives and de-emphasize any negatives....so you have to make your own assessments
don't be a clown....you have no idea how much "DOS"(or slight derivatives of it) is still VERY much in use around you...every single minute of every single day. Get real....just because M$ spends more money in advertising .NET, or Sun in Java, doesn't mean that older technologies aren't still very much in use.
I agree, I have stopped taking the Gartner group seriously because too many of their reports in the past are highly skewed, and wreak of funding from some party interested in the "findings" leaning in their favor.
And as for the sales pitch, you could almost tell it was coming from the moment they brought up Compuware.
>Otherwise you could just make a slick web page >saying that Windows gives you cancer, and >they'd ban it too!
You mean it doesn't ? You mean they haven't ?
Oh, the humanity !
"This whole thread is a bit off-topic"
Wrong, it's within the scope of the topic because the originting comment ot the thread specifically said that 90% of the investments in those offshoring ventures are from the U.S.
"Mutual fund managers, for example, typically receive a percentage of the fund value every year"
Half Truth Alert ! What you neglect to mention is that they not only get paid for performance ( oh that their BMW payment was DIRECTLY tied to the fund's performance !), but also how many unknowing saps they get to BUY in to the fund ( loaded or not ), because better funded funds generally "appear" to be performing, to the "public" en masse.
Frankly, I think the whole "funds" business should be completely contingency based, with a cap on the said "peformance percentage" that the manager is remunerated. Taking 30% of a 5% increased ( I'm being conservative, of course )100 million fund is still a ridiculously high contingency fee ratio. Especially since you usually find that most managers aren't in fact managers of just any given single fund.
You find where it doesn't, and then point it out to me. That is, if you think the dunce cap you put on yourself doesn't fit you properly.
Oh yeah...and you all "Old King Georgie"'d your way into the hearts of the original inhabitants there too, EH ?
Yes....are you that dense that you don't understand the Declaration of Independence ?
Yes, but not at the cost of lowering mine and others around me, certainly not my kids. People who came before us in this country fought hard, paid their dues ( as many of us do ) to get to where we are. Just because companies are greedy, doesn't preclude my right nor my opinion that their conduct is unethical. The point of paying taxes, which you so casually dismiss, is that the taxes paid for their work here, goes back into the system here. Not over there. If they want a higher quality of life, then let them play in a level playing field. Sure...go ahead..TRY to level the economies...that's not going to make a bit of difference. We saw it with the textile industry here in the United States, and it's happened elsewhere....
Now this is a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one. The creation something that parodies currency is far out there, but the argument you're putting forward is just ridiculous.
Fine....take the word clown out of the last post. The argument is still valid. No one said that making a facsimile of legal tender wasn't an offense, but if you wanted to make an parody of it, isn't.
Gee...I wonder what country it is you're talking about....Hmm..could it be the country with 1 in 6 of us in the planet ? Could it be the one with 1 in 8 ? It sure as heck isn't this one.
What gives me the right to speak against is that I pay taxes ( more in fact percentage-wise than most corporations do ) which in part ( albeit a per-capita small one ) towards the salaries of those people who're are supposedly supposed to be watchful of the welfare of it's people.
Look, since it apparently isn't bothering you that much, or not affecting your wonderful country, what the FUCK, do you have to complain about my comments. If you don't agree, so what, no loss to you. Let the person have their say, it's not like you're losing a meal, right ? Normally I like Canadians, but you sir, make Bob and Doug McKenzie look like geniuses by logical argument standards.
"certain rights are not more important than other rights"
Exactly, clown. That's the point he/she was trying to make. It's not the point that whether printing a Trillion dollar bill would be stupid or not( like the Bill Clinton 3 dollar bills are ). It's that the the government having the right to print currency, and it having the right ( given to it by the PEOPLE, mind you ) to prosecute someone who does counterfeit currency, does NOT supercede the right to express your personal opinion by making a spoof.
Why is that so HARD for all of you to grasp ?
I have. You suggestion of "inevitability" is sophomoric. What ? Expressing sour grapes over the World Court upholding the tariffs on "dumped" Canadian lumber still sticking in your craw ? It's ok when your country "pulls a fast one", but it's not O.K. when others do ?
Until you actually have a constructive comment, go back into your glass house. And be patient.
correcting myself ( though my point should've been clear enough to grasp without having to ).
.....American Countries
I meant.....American Companies
not
Both you, and the a$$ clown who responded to your post first are idiots. Of course, I have a right to have my country ensure that there are jobs available. I've paid taxes going towards their salaries long enough, so did my parents and their parents before. What makes you think that some other country by virtue of keeping it's people within strict social classes ( or let's call them what they are, castes ) has the Vishnu or Buddha given right to them ?
Get real. If you really want jobs from American countries..move HERE. Pay taxes HERE. Raise your children HERE.
And as for Mr. 700 Club sarcasm, get IN TOUCH with reality and a bit less with YOURSELF! Not everyone arguing against outsourcing is a fundamentalist Christian radical. putz....
There is a redistributable package that's found on the MSDN. It's not easy to locate, I'll grant you that. While I don't think Joel is an idiot ( I'm curious why you think so ), he's at least a curmudgeon with conviction, and I'll grant him that much.
.Net, but I see it as an "evil that must be wielded, but kept in check". I don't think that Microsoft has a terribly efficient record of keeping their word on a timeliness of delivery, nor adherence to commitments for said deliveries. It's a personal observation from based on past personal experience dealing with them during the development of OS/2, and since then. It doesn't make me terribly confident that they aren't going to just say "fudge it" within their own desktop or backend server suite of products, and skirt around certain features of .Net. The Win32 API isn't going away any time soon ( Yeah...you try writing a system service in .NET, good luck.), but I'm sorry if I'm not left with this "Don't fence me in" impression about .NET.
I'm not a "real big fan" of
I disagree with you, because you can get the "Framework" package to only install the run-time, but end users don't know the difference from a hole in the wall (most of the time). And they couldn't care less. I wasn't arguing that Salamander wasn't a good product. But the fact is that it still generates an assembly, which, even though seriously obfuscated, can still be decompiled a whole lot easier than most stand-alone EXE's.
.Net has been around a decade. After it's been banged around a bit. That's...a long time. Just because you and I ( 3 years ) have been programming it for a while, doesn't necessarily make it classify it as a "long time". Now, if you talk "C" ( almost 20 years )...now that, is a relatively long time. Just as someone who's been doing Fortran for 40 years (Any of you guys still out there ? ) might tell ME, that I haven't been programming something that's been around, "a long time". Careful that you don't ascribe the connotation of MATURITY, to something that's barely crawled out of the primordial swamp ( even IF Anders Heljsberg first developed the prototype for .Net over 10 years ago ).
I did find a little redeeming humor at your response. "a long time now(2 years)". Dude, that's not a long time. Talk to me after
Are you high or something...of course you still need .Net. You don't need the FRAMEWORK, but you do need the runtime, which is still significant in size. Perhaps you should garner a little experience in .Net yourself, before you spew massive chunks.
Nobody said "I'm better than him over there!"....are you insane. People in other parts of the world are in no better position to talk about "Human Rights" than anyone else. Let's ask the peaceful swiss where the money from Holocaust victims is ? Talk to me about why the US had to go over to Monrovia last year ? How long exactly has the caste system existed in India, and how long have the french thought that when it suits them they can claim to be the bastions of enlightened handling of dictators ?
So in the end result, you are right, no one has the right to say "I'm better at this, or that", but you know what ? That's not the point anyone's arguing here. Grow up already ! Either that, or realize that when jobs go to even poorer nations, and they will trust me, you won't be in a position to moan and bitch about it.
All I can say is.......brilliant !
Or rather you don't do it because you want to keep your job *and* don't want to goto jail(your reason has the hidden implication btw, that if you could get away with you would be happy to do it. Are all Americans so ethically and morally corrupt then ? :-) Sorry, but you did suggest that the rest of the world is. )
That's because it is....Has India ditched it's caste system completely ? ( Yeah, right ? Tell that excuse to someone who might believe you. ). Has Russia stopped decimating Chechnyans, and vice versa ? Please! Has China held free elections ? Has Pakistan finally owned up to Khan's stealing Nuclear enrichment techniques from the Dutch, and then selling it to North Korea, Libya, Iran ? Please go sell that tripe to someone else.