I think you've made an excellent point about the distinction between something being valuable to a person or society and something being exchangable for money.
This distinction is the main issue I see in a transition to an Open Source/Content society. Many things simply cannot be traded for personal or societal value today. The electric company and my ISP, as examples, are not interested in whether I can make them feel better or contribute "entertainment, utility, and educational value." So to create things that create these values, I also need to do something to create monetary value - to get money to pay for electricity.
At this point, I have not heard of any way for a society to exist where Valuable Content is traded for necessary goods like food without using an intermediary device like money. In a sense, money is simply a way of trading the value in your content for food. If there is another way to do it, I think that would be great. I just don't see how to get there.
Anything anyone does as a hobby can lose money. They do it for their own self satisfaction first. Most of the cherished great works of content, however, were not created by hobbyists, but by people dedicated to creating them and paid to do so. And note that they are not cherished because they are rare or secret (or ever were) but because they provide great value to the people that experience them.
I'm rambling. I'm sorry. I'm just frustrated. I want to hear some real, well thought out opinions about how this should work. I want to know how to make the society where creating value is rewarded more than creating neurosis. I want to know how to get food for distributing content for free. I want to know why anyone would be a waiter or work in a power plant when they could do that. I want that world. I'm damn sure, however, that we don't get to this utopia by giving everything away without demanding that people return exchange value for personal and societal value.
Are you suggesting that building the Pyramids was kept secret from Egyptians? That it was built by some method that couldn't be figured out by the numerous people actually doing the building?
I think the tendency is to lose knowledge that is so common that no one thinks there's a need to record it. It's likely that everyone in Egypt knew that they were being built and who was doing it.
It doesn't sound like this bill would effect you beyond adding another (perhaps one time) piece of government paperwork describing your data and its purpose.
The intent of the bill (as I read this blurb) is to make government information keeping accountable - not to prevent it. the government has many jobs, and obviously will need many databases. The bill does not seem to suggest that they are bad or unnecessary. It suggests it is necessary to keep track of how other agencies are using the data.
As examples, Social Security, tax information, property ownership (as you point out), birth and death records, and so on and so on and so on. One of the government's jobs is to keep track of information and provide an authoritative source in case of disputes. The bill is to make sure agencies aren't abusing this power and authority.
And really, they're just reporting to Congress. We can't really assume Congress is going to make any agency stop doing what they report.
The Tiger Direct link claims the following suspicious features:
- Faster Performance Than Windows - Spell Check, Send And Receive E-mail (POP, IMAP) - Surf The Web Faster (with pop-up blocking) - Instant Message Anyone (AIM, Yahoo, ICQ, MSN) - Built-In Web Browser And Mail - Play MP3 Files And Digitize Your Own CDs - Play Games With Added Power - Use Microsoft File-Compatible Word-Processing, Spreadsheet And Presentation Software (.doc,.xls,.ppt, and more) - Perform Photo Editing And Graphic Design - Manage Administrators And Multiple Users On One Computer - Built-in Pre-Configured Firewall For Maximum Security - Update your Operating System And Applications Automatically - Connect And Share Data Over A Microsoft® Windows Network
Sounds like they copied the Lindows features from another page. Seems like they should point out to potential buyers that much of this can't be done with only this PC and an internet connection.
Obviously you can run whatever they put on the CD.
The marketing I read sounded geared toward a 'Joe Sixpack' that wants to get online cheap, experience the World Wide Web and get himself an email address. Mr. Joe "what the fuck is a usb flashdrive" Sixpack. Joe "network storage?!? my ass" Sixpack.
This thing is being marketed as a cheap, easy, bulletproof way to get online (no matter what its more practical uses are). Network storage is not cheap, easy or bulletproof.
My point is that they are marketing capabilities that they don't appear to be selling or supporting, ie: your flashdrive, and your network.
I have had brochures, newspapers and magazines printed from PDF files without issue. Including among them were a map containing a 600MB Photoshop TIFF, and a number of 133 lpi magazines. They have been printed in Louisiana, Mississippi, Colorado, and England. There have been no image quality issues.
I have also worked for a web printing company that worked with them quite successfully (and still does). Many, if not most, new RIPs will handle them as well as the Postscript files they are made from.
If the PDF files are produced correctly, there is no need to worry about image quality. If they are not produced correctly (ie: the wrong compression options), they can be a nightmare - they are very difficult to change. I do not doubt that many printers would be wary of taking them, but I doubt you would have any real trouble finding a printer to take them for any substantial ($) job. They are, however, still unsuitable for spot color work.
I would be surprised if you found anyone who had heard of Scribus. I hadn't either. I don't use it, and I wouldn't bet a job on it. But I will watch it, and I'll play with it. It won't give Quark any worries for quite a while, but it should provide an alternative for those who want one.
I'm really glad they're following up on this. The penalties were hardly enough to break up a monopoly, and Microsoft gave many indications that they would pretty much ignore the whole thing.
Microsoft bought VirtualPC. They announced that the Mac version of IE would be discontinued. They've continued to offer special deals to sell Windows at little or no profit to (try to) keep Linux out of government and business.
The monopoly power Microsoft was convicted of abusing is still being used, and they are doing everything in their power to expand it.
Don't get so defensive! I was asking. I was pointing out that he doesn't try to make a recommendation, or to defend it in his blog.
There are other languages he could be thinking of: Obj C (as another poster pointed out), Perl, Python, Ruby, *Basic, shell scripting, Applescript, Ada, Fortran, Cobol, Smalltalk...
I asked about Visual Basic because it seems the most likely - for all the reasons you mention. I wouldn't write with it, but I don't use Windows and I like to be able to run my programs:)
There are going to be disadvantages to anything he might suggest. But ultimately, I'd like the guy to have actually said what his preference would be at this point. Rather than for Slashdot to bicker defensively about our chosen language being insulted.
Most of this seems pretty basic to me. I wonder what he was doing in "university and in the working world" that didn't teach him these things.
And I really wonder what language he suggests. If not C/C++/Java, then what? VB?
I wish he had spent a little longer on this. I realize it's just a blog, but it would be nice to see some insight into OSS management vs. the alternatives.
I see what you're saying. The Watson thing was kind of sketchy, but I think the new system font management is long over due. Previously, you bought a Mac and then really Had to buy other software to get it to do work it's supposed to do out of the box. It was (is) the graphic design computer - you have to be able to work with gobs of fonts. I've got 3 CDs full of fonts, you simply can't just load 'em all up and expect OS 9 to live.
Conflict Catcher was the same way. It was necessary, but shouldn't have been. Hopefully Tech Tool and Disk Warrior (useful as they are now) will go the same way. Hopefully those developers saved enough money to get them through. And hopefully they will be able to put their skills to work on software that does something other than fix a system that should take care of itself.
This guy makes the mistake of equating "art" and "good." This is a common mistake among people who don't know much about art history and the art world. "Art" is a type of thing, not a value judgement. So, at best, his essay makes a case for making Good Games by taking inspiration from Fine Art. This is a totally different thing from suggesting that Games have a place in Fine Art ie: that Games are a type of Art. I'm certainly not saying that games are not Art, I'm saying that that is a completely different subject.
All in all, this guy's lack of understanding of the art world, and especially contemporary art, makes this essay just about worthless.
I agree with this post: use the media. Slashdot is great, and if you don't see a solution to the problem by the ISP very soon, send your write up to every news source you can find - NYTimes, CNN, TechTV, your state Press Association, your local newspaper and TV stations, Bill Moyer, Geraldo Rivera, etc.
When Government doesn't obey a person, you get People together and you raise a stink. The media is (supposedly) the People's way of doing that. As others have said, the ISP is more likely than you to get some enforcement in this case, but a few thousand people are also more likely to get a response than just you.
If I were running a country (and luckily for all I am not), I don't think I would even consider using software that was produced and exported from another country, no matter how well we got along.
Brazil is, after all, a nation, not a business. It makes sense to me that they would want to be able to use software that another nation could not deny them. They would want to use software they could repair themselves. That they could check for security flaws themselves. So that money doesn't leave the country, as others have said. But also so that their nation is not dependent on another when it's not necessary.
Kind of the same way a nation might want to grow its own food.
An office I worked for had this problem. Phone service was through one provider, who didn't own the lines and sub-contracted the equipment to another company. So there were three parties (four if you include the building maintenance people). Problems would last for weeks while the blame got shifted from one company to the next. It was a nightmare of unaccountability.
In my opinion, deregulation has led mostly to the development of marketing.
I've seen no improvements in customer service, billing accuracy or service. I have seen thousands of advertisements, marketing gimmicks and 'unbeatable deals.' Telemarketing and junk mail from telephone, mobile phone and internet service companies are at an all time high for me. It is no easier to get accurate information about services. It is nearly impossible to compare services between providers and find any appreciable differences. You can easily find numerous claims that one service is better than the rest and will change your life - with no evidence beyond the new ring tones you can get for your mobile phone.
I'm reading Absolute BSD now to get ready for my first FreeBSD install. I've mostly worked with Macs, with a couple of linux installations on servers. This book is great. It's well written, human and clear. It makes recompiling the kernel - which I've never considered touching - seem like a normal, no big deal thing that you just do sometimes. If this install goes well, this new book will help convince me to try OpenBSD for more secure installs.
I think the issue here is that people want the products they purchase to last. It's not necessarily a matter of losing data, because that can happen a number of ways and we all know to make backups. It's a matter of hard drives becoming less and less reliable. Which leads to computers in general getting less and less reliable.
Most of us here, you too I bet, would like to think that computers would get better and better. Meaning more capable and more reliable as well as faster and cheaper. This community invests a lot of time learning about, using, and abusing computers. We would like to feel confident that manufacturers will produce reliable equipment that will repay that investment.
I would like to think that my hard drive will last longer than it takes me to get my computer customized to my desired state. I would like to think that computers won't become so commoditized that when some part malfunctions they are just thrown away like televisions, vcrs, radios, etc. I would like to think that my purchase will last until it is obsolete - it's not like that takes that long these days.
I recommend Umberto Eco's "The Island of the Day Before." It's (sort of) a hacker book set in the 15th century and written better than any SF I've ever read.
Or read about some philosphers if you're up to it. Try to remember that there are reasons to obsess about hacking and computers that's outside of SF.
Slashdot Mirror
I think you've made an excellent point about the distinction between something being valuable to a person or society and something being exchangable for money.
This distinction is the main issue I see in a transition to an Open Source/Content society. Many things simply cannot be traded for personal or societal value today. The electric company and my ISP, as examples, are not interested in whether I can make them feel better or contribute "entertainment, utility, and educational value." So to create things that create these values, I also need to do something to create monetary value - to get money to pay for electricity.
At this point, I have not heard of any way for a society to exist where Valuable Content is traded for necessary goods like food without using an intermediary device like money. In a sense, money is simply a way of trading the value in your content for food. If there is another way to do it, I think that would be great. I just don't see how to get there.
Anything anyone does as a hobby can lose money. They do it for their own self satisfaction first. Most of the cherished great works of content, however, were not created by hobbyists, but by people dedicated to creating them and paid to do so. And note that they are not cherished because they are rare or secret (or ever were) but because they provide great value to the people that experience them.
I'm rambling. I'm sorry. I'm just frustrated. I want to hear some real, well thought out opinions about how this should work. I want to know how to make the society where creating value is rewarded more than creating neurosis. I want to know how to get food for distributing content for free. I want to know why anyone would be a waiter or work in a power plant when they could do that. I want that world. I'm damn sure, however, that we don't get to this utopia by giving everything away without demanding that people return exchange value for personal and societal value.
Are you suggesting that building the Pyramids was kept secret from Egyptians? That it was built by some method that couldn't be figured out by the numerous people actually doing the building?
I think the tendency is to lose knowledge that is so common that no one thinks there's a need to record it. It's likely that everyone in Egypt knew that they were being built and who was doing it.
It doesn't sound like this bill would effect you beyond adding another (perhaps one time) piece of government paperwork describing your data and its purpose.
The intent of the bill (as I read this blurb) is to make government information keeping accountable - not to prevent it. the government has many jobs, and obviously will need many databases. The bill does not seem to suggest that they are bad or unnecessary. It suggests it is necessary to keep track of how other agencies are using the data.
As examples, Social Security, tax information, property ownership (as you point out), birth and death records, and so on and so on and so on. One of the government's jobs is to keep track of information and provide an authoritative source in case of disputes. The bill is to make sure agencies aren't abusing this power and authority.
And really, they're just reporting to Congress. We can't really assume Congress is going to make any agency stop doing what they report.
The Tiger Direct link claims the following suspicious features:
.xls, .ppt, and more)
- Faster Performance Than Windows
- Spell Check, Send And Receive E-mail (POP, IMAP)
- Surf The Web Faster (with pop-up blocking)
- Instant Message Anyone (AIM, Yahoo, ICQ, MSN)
- Built-In Web Browser And Mail
- Play MP3 Files And Digitize Your Own CDs
- Play Games With Added Power
- Use Microsoft File-Compatible Word-Processing, Spreadsheet And Presentation Software (.doc,
- Perform Photo Editing And Graphic Design
- Manage Administrators And Multiple Users On One Computer
- Built-in Pre-Configured Firewall For Maximum Security
- Update your Operating System And Applications Automatically
- Connect And Share Data Over A Microsoft® Windows Network
Sounds like they copied the Lindows features from another page. Seems like they should point out to potential buyers that much of this can't be done with only this PC and an internet connection.
Obviously you can run whatever they put on the CD.
The marketing I read sounded geared toward a 'Joe Sixpack' that wants to get online cheap, experience the World Wide Web and get himself an email address. Mr. Joe "what the fuck is a usb flashdrive" Sixpack. Joe "network storage?!? my ass" Sixpack.
This thing is being marketed as a cheap, easy, bulletproof way to get online (no matter what its more practical uses are). Network storage is not cheap, easy or bulletproof.
My point is that they are marketing capabilities that they don't appear to be selling or supporting, ie: your flashdrive, and your network.
It says it handles POP email accounts and comes with OpenOffice to edit MS Word files...
That really implies a Hard Drive, huh? Maybe the HD is an option that allows these "features"?
It also seems that advertising a 56X CDROM drive that you can't use without removing your OS might be a little misleading as well.
The Gartner Group provide Pointy Haired Advice to Pointy Haired Bosses.
Where did you see the academic/discounted version restriction?
All I see is that Premiere LE doesn't count. That's the Lite version, not the academic or bundle version.
I've got a copy of v5 from the Video Bundle (or whatever it's called) that I got an academic price on. And I want FCE!!
If you saw a restriction, though, I'd like to know before I mail off my CD.
I appreciate the time you took to call around.
I have had brochures, newspapers and magazines printed from PDF files without issue. Including among them were a map containing a 600MB Photoshop TIFF, and a number of 133 lpi magazines. They have been printed in Louisiana, Mississippi, Colorado, and England. There have been no image quality issues.
I have also worked for a web printing company that worked with them quite successfully (and still does). Many, if not most, new RIPs will handle them as well as the Postscript files they are made from.
If the PDF files are produced correctly, there is no need to worry about image quality. If they are not produced correctly (ie: the wrong compression options), they can be a nightmare - they are very difficult to change. I do not doubt that many printers would be wary of taking them, but I doubt you would have any real trouble finding a printer to take them for any substantial ($) job. They are, however, still unsuitable for spot color work.
I would be surprised if you found anyone who had heard of Scribus. I hadn't either. I don't use it, and I wouldn't bet a job on it. But I will watch it, and I'll play with it. It won't give Quark any worries for quite a while, but it should provide an alternative for those who want one.
It's already supported by any professional offset printer worth talking to. It outputs PDF files - the prefered format of many, many printers.
Gimp, on the other hand, really needs CMYK support. Maybe a DTP app on the platform will help spur them on.
I'm really glad they're following up on this. The penalties were hardly enough to break up a monopoly, and Microsoft gave many indications that they would pretty much ignore the whole thing.
Microsoft bought VirtualPC. They announced that the Mac version of IE would be discontinued. They've continued to offer special deals to sell Windows at little or no profit to (try to) keep Linux out of government and business.
The monopoly power Microsoft was convicted of abusing is still being used, and they are doing everything in their power to expand it.
Yeah, but now you gotta pay 25 cents to find out if it sucks...
Don't get so defensive! I was asking. I was pointing out that he doesn't try to make a recommendation, or to defend it in his blog.
There are other languages he could be thinking of: Obj C (as another poster pointed out), Perl, Python, Ruby, *Basic, shell scripting, Applescript, Ada, Fortran, Cobol, Smalltalk...
I asked about Visual Basic because it seems the most likely - for all the reasons you mention. I wouldn't write with it, but I don't use Windows and I like to be able to run my programs :)
There are going to be disadvantages to anything he might suggest. But ultimately, I'd like the guy to have actually said what his preference would be at this point. Rather than for Slashdot to bicker defensively about our chosen language being insulted.
Most of this seems pretty basic to me. I wonder what he was doing in "university and in the working world" that didn't teach him these things.
And I really wonder what language he suggests. If not C/C++/Java, then what? VB?
I wish he had spent a little longer on this. I realize it's just a blog, but it would be nice to see some insight into OSS management vs. the alternatives.
I see what you're saying. The Watson thing was kind of sketchy, but I think the new system font management is long over due. Previously, you bought a Mac and then really Had to buy other software to get it to do work it's supposed to do out of the box. It was (is) the graphic design computer - you have to be able to work with gobs of fonts. I've got 3 CDs full of fonts, you simply can't just load 'em all up and expect OS 9 to live.
Conflict Catcher was the same way. It was necessary, but shouldn't have been. Hopefully Tech Tool and Disk Warrior (useful as they are now) will go the same way. Hopefully those developers saved enough money to get them through. And hopefully they will be able to put their skills to work on software that does something other than fix a system that should take care of itself.
This guy makes the mistake of equating "art" and "good." This is a common mistake among people who don't know much about art history and the art world. "Art" is a type of thing, not a value judgement. So, at best, his essay makes a case for making Good Games by taking inspiration from Fine Art. This is a totally different thing from suggesting that Games have a place in Fine Art ie: that Games are a type of Art. I'm certainly not saying that games are not Art, I'm saying that that is a completely different subject.
All in all, this guy's lack of understanding of the art world, and especially contemporary art, makes this essay just about worthless.
I agree with this post: use the media. Slashdot is great, and if you don't see a solution to the problem by the ISP very soon, send your write up to every news source you can find - NYTimes, CNN, TechTV, your state Press Association, your local newspaper and TV stations, Bill Moyer, Geraldo Rivera, etc.
When Government doesn't obey a person, you get People together and you raise a stink. The media is (supposedly) the People's way of doing that. As others have said, the ISP is more likely than you to get some enforcement in this case, but a few thousand people are also more likely to get a response than just you.
If I were running a country (and luckily for all I am not), I don't think I would even consider using software that was produced and exported from another country, no matter how well we got along.
Brazil is, after all, a nation, not a business. It makes sense to me that they would want to be able to use software that another nation could not deny them. They would want to use software they could repair themselves. That they could check for security flaws themselves. So that money doesn't leave the country, as others have said. But also so that their nation is not dependent on another when it's not necessary.
Kind of the same way a nation might want to grow its own food.
Well.. it does lead to more jobs, for people who are into that kind of thing.
yeah...
so do war,
terrorist attacks,
flooding,
tornados,
collapsing bridges,
oil spills,
epidemics...
"Good for the economy" isn't necessarily Good.
This is an excellent point.
An office I worked for had this problem. Phone service was through one provider, who didn't own the lines and sub-contracted the equipment to another company. So there were three parties (four if you include the building maintenance people). Problems would last for weeks while the blame got shifted from one company to the next. It was a nightmare of unaccountability.
In my opinion, deregulation has led mostly to the development of marketing.
I've seen no improvements in customer service, billing accuracy or service. I have seen thousands of advertisements, marketing gimmicks and 'unbeatable deals.' Telemarketing and junk mail from telephone, mobile phone and internet service companies are at an all time high for me. It is no easier to get accurate information about services. It is nearly impossible to compare services between providers and find any appreciable differences. You can easily find numerous claims that one service is better than the rest and will change your life - with no evidence beyond the new ring tones you can get for your mobile phone.
I'm reading Absolute BSD now to get ready for my first FreeBSD install. I've mostly worked with Macs, with a couple of linux installations on servers. This book is great. It's well written, human and clear. It makes recompiling the kernel - which I've never considered touching - seem like a normal, no big deal thing that you just do sometimes. If this install goes well, this new book will help convince me to try OpenBSD for more secure installs.
I think the issue here is that people want the products they purchase to last. It's not necessarily a matter of losing data, because that can happen a number of ways and we all know to make backups. It's a matter of hard drives becoming less and less reliable. Which leads to computers in general getting less and less reliable.
Most of us here, you too I bet, would like to think that computers would get better and better. Meaning more capable and more reliable as well as faster and cheaper. This community invests a lot of time learning about, using, and abusing computers. We would like to feel confident that manufacturers will produce reliable equipment that will repay that investment.
I would like to think that my hard drive will last longer than it takes me to get my computer customized to my desired state. I would like to think that computers won't become so commoditized that when some part malfunctions they are just thrown away like televisions, vcrs, radios, etc. I would like to think that my purchase will last until it is obsolete - it's not like that takes that long these days.
I recommend Umberto Eco's "The Island of the Day Before." It's (sort of) a hacker book set in the 15th century and written better than any SF I've ever read. Or read about some philosphers if you're up to it. Try to remember that there are reasons to obsess about hacking and computers that's outside of SF.
That PortaLogica looks pretty cool to me. Wonder if it runs on my computer...
Doesn't mention any system requirements at all. Maybe it runs on my old C64. They do mention the C64.
That must be it.