I believe you're right. And the government may have to rethink their strategy when geeks electronically capture those drones and use them for their own purposes.
> Many forgot about the Windows 98 active desktop. Remember?
Man, that sucked. Win98 wasn't usable for anything approaching real work until it was turned off. Just about the first thing any Win98 user learned to do is disable active desktop. Brrr!
But Win98, once you disabled that horrible misfeature, was arguably better than Win95 in every other respect.
> You do realize that Windows 8 is for both desktops/laptops and tablets?
Well, yes, I do realize that. I was responding to the original poster's contention that Win32 was generally doomed (and he had some good reasons, actually) and (he said) the future of M$ was appliances and phones. I was pointing out that, assuming his views for the sake of argument, Windows on a tablet has never been a happy place and, I think, isn't likely to be. At all, ever. People will buy them because some people buy anything by Microsoft, but they're not going to be happy with them until they plug in a keyboard/mouse and switch back over to the Desktop mode, because Microsoft on a very basic level does not, and will probably never, understand the touch paradigm.
Now, I use Windows to load programs I need for my job, and although we own a couple of macs at home, they don't get a lot of use. I don't consider myself a Windows kind of guy except out of necessity, and I'm *definitely* not a Mac kind of guy. I don't have the faintest desire to own an iphone. But I have to admit, Apple had the right idea. For touch interfaces, create a touch interface operating system based on (approx) the same kernel you're currently using for the desktop, but abandon all the other point-and-click nonsense and start over on the gui. Worry later about folding the two together, if it's even possible. In the meantime, sell lots of devices and get phenomenally rich. [1]
Microsoft doesn't have those options. Create a new platform on the existing kernel... nope, the existing kernel is crap. Abandon the point and click interface and design a brand new touch interface -- nope, this violates the code-reuse rule. Let's take the Win7 interface, layer the phone interface on top of it, and call it good.
This is gonna fail so bad.....
[1] Of course, this built on the fact that Apple swapped out Finder for a small, mature, well-written kernel back in 2001, which they could in turn leverage in iOS. Microsoft did something similar with XP, but didn't go nearly far enough. It's that code reuse thing they keep stumbling over.
Having spent many MANY hours getting drivers and plug-and-play to work in Windows 95, I'm not sure I completely agree. Win98 was usable, true. So was Windows NT 3.5, and NT 4.0 if you didn't ask too much of it.
At a large company in which I worked in 1997, there were exactly two PCs that worked reliably. They were mine, and the other Unix administrator. Both were running Windows NT 4, installed and configured by us. No DHCP, no SAS, all settings done carefully by hand. You couldn't play games on them, but you know, we weren't there to play games. (Besides, there was xtank on the machine room consoles.) The rest of the company was running Windows 95, and the Windows admins were spending all their time chasing ghosts through the network. (Which we eventually learned were master browser storms. Remember those?) Since neither our NT boxes nor any of the Unix workstations exhibited any symptoms of network problems, and the hundreds of Win95 boxes were having massive failures, the top Windows admin accused us of sabotage. There were high level meetings about it and they sent the Unix admins home and called in forensic specialists. The problem turned out to be that every copy of Win95 defaulted to "browse master" out of the box, and they spent all of their time on the network fighting over the privilege. The solution was to go to each PC and turn off the feature.
So we were exonerated and he quit soon after. I heard the experience ruined his career. So at least for some people, Win95 didn't work out so well.
> Some have stated that Win8 is stated to be a failure already as far as x86 machines go, based on the fact that companies waited 10 years on XP and skipped Vista, and are only now moving to W7
There are companies moving to W7? Don't get me wrong, W7 is not bad once you turn off some of the visual effects settings. [1] It's just that I don't see companies in a hurry to move off XP. It works, it loads programs, the latest browsers work on it, "and since you do everything through a browser now, we're pretty indistinguishable" (obg xkcd reference).
[1] It's time to stop fooling ourselves -- the OS is not an application, and it's not a video game. The purpose of the OS is to load applications and manage resources, not to keep us entertained.
Yep. It's inevitable. I think the even/odd thing is that in release (a) we try new stuff, and in release (b) we fix/withdraw it, and then in release (c) we try new stuff again, so it tends to devolve into even=suck odd=less_suck. Or the other way around, depending on if they start at "1" or "0".
> Windows as you have known it is deprecated, a traditional Windows desktop will be available (certainly on x86, perhaps on arm) for those who are determined enough to figure out how to reenable it but don't expect it to last much longer. If Windows and native Win32 executables themselves are on the chopping block
I think that's going to last about 6 months after Win8 release, and then they're going to realize that early adopters are putting keyboards and mice on their tablets and struggling to re-enable the traditional desktop because that interface reused from Windows Phone 7 isn't doing it for them, and the rest of us are waiting to see what Windows 9 looks like.
Then Win8 service pack 1 will add back in a bunch of stuff they had taken out, and make the traditional desktop the default.
Holy Mackerel. My mother-in-law actually got one of these calls. She said someone with a nearly unintelligable accent had called saying he was from her ISP and he could see that her computer had a dangerous infection.
Now, mother-in-law is one of the most internet-savvy non-geeks I have ever met. Her first response was "how? the computer is turned off." He babbled something about how they could still tell and insisted she turn it on right now and follow his instructions very carefully. She said he was very excited and talked very forcefully and urgently.
She told him no, she didn't think that was necessary, her son-in-law does all her administration and she was pretty sure her computer was safe. He abruptly hung up. She immediately called me and told me about it. I asked her to boot up, logged in remotely, poked around and started a virus scan. Nothing. Obvious scam.
Well, I figure the restraints would pop up, it'd go through a corkscrew track to clear out the bodies, and then a live steam pressure wash before coming around for the next load. Ooooh, nice warm seats!
I see Helpers armed with tasers ready to stun and remove anyone in line who gets hysterical, and loudspeakers with elevator music and a calming voice telling them how much fun it's going to be. The last couple of cars would be reserved for stunned protesters.
But if the government manages it, half the time it won't make it up the ramp or it'll get stuck upside-down in the first loop. The ride would stop every half hour for contractual coffee breaks. Before the first year of service is up, it'll be discovered that the metalwork was skimped so the manufacturer could pocket some extra cash (after splitting it with a couple senators as part of the cost of doing business) and the whole thing will be condemned and abandoned. The government will go back to gas chambers.
From a utility perspective, Bing doesn't have to be competitive. If Microsoft can force market share through other manipulations, it all amounts to the same thing in the end. Except, of course, for the users, but they don't count.
> Most people using tablets will likely "stay in Metro" most of the time.
I'm sure that's the intent, but I suspect that most people using Metro on tablets will eventually give up and add a keyboard and mouse. Then they'll go to the desktop more and more just to get stuff done, eventually abandoning Metro except for simple media related stuff.
I'm basing this on, every single other time Microsoft has come out with what they said was a "tablet enabled" version of Windows, which were all unusable without keyboard and mouse except for the simplest of tasks. I'm not convinced they 'get it' yet. I'm pretty sure they don't, actually.
> Very few people are complaining that Netflix is doing the wrong thing by pushing streaming; lots of people are of the opinion that streaming is the future of content delivery. However, it's not ready to be the present of content delivery
Reed needs to have this tattooed on his forehead. Backwards, so he can read it in the mirror.
> but the current 1080p content looks decent on my 60" LCD.
That's kindof the issue really. You need over 50" to appreciate full 1080p. (And then you have to have a room big enough that the screen doesn't overwhelm.) We have a 46" LCD and a well authored 480p is fine. 720p is an embarrassment of riches, and 1080p is deep into diminishing returns; a waste of bandwidth for very little gain. With a 60" screen, your mileage probably does vary, but I suspect for most of us, 1080p is just for bragging rights.
Slashdot Mirror
I believe you're right. And the government may have to rethink their strategy when geeks electronically capture those drones and use them for their own purposes.
> Many forgot about the Windows 98 active desktop. Remember?
Man, that sucked. Win98 wasn't usable for anything approaching real work until it was turned off. Just about the first thing any Win98 user learned to do is disable active desktop. Brrr!
But Win98, once you disabled that horrible misfeature, was arguably better than Win95 in every other respect.
Windows ME in a nutshell.
> You do realize that Windows 8 is for both desktops/laptops and tablets?
Well, yes, I do realize that. I was responding to the original poster's contention that Win32 was generally doomed (and he had some good reasons, actually) and (he said) the future of M$ was appliances and phones. I was pointing out that, assuming his views for the sake of argument, Windows on a tablet has never been a happy place and, I think, isn't likely to be. At all, ever. People will buy them because some people buy anything by Microsoft, but they're not going to be happy with them until they plug in a keyboard/mouse and switch back over to the Desktop mode, because Microsoft on a very basic level does not, and will probably never, understand the touch paradigm.
Now, I use Windows to load programs I need for my job, and although we own a couple of macs at home, they don't get a lot of use. I don't consider myself a Windows kind of guy except out of necessity, and I'm *definitely* not a Mac kind of guy. I don't have the faintest desire to own an iphone. But I have to admit, Apple had the right idea. For touch interfaces, create a touch interface operating system based on (approx) the same kernel you're currently using for the desktop, but abandon all the other point-and-click nonsense and start over on the gui. Worry later about folding the two together, if it's even possible. In the meantime, sell lots of devices and get phenomenally rich. [1]
Microsoft doesn't have those options. Create a new platform on the existing kernel... nope, the existing kernel is crap. Abandon the point and click interface and design a brand new touch interface -- nope, this violates the code-reuse rule. Let's take the Win7 interface, layer the phone interface on top of it, and call it good.
This is gonna fail so bad.....
[1] Of course, this built on the fact that Apple swapped out Finder for a small, mature, well-written kernel back in 2001, which they could in turn leverage in iOS. Microsoft did something similar with XP, but didn't go nearly far enough. It's that code reuse thing they keep stumbling over.
Having spent many MANY hours getting drivers and plug-and-play to work in Windows 95, I'm not sure I completely agree. Win98 was usable, true. So was Windows NT 3.5, and NT 4.0 if you didn't ask too much of it.
At a large company in which I worked in 1997, there were exactly two PCs that worked reliably. They were mine, and the other Unix administrator. Both were running Windows NT 4, installed and configured by us. No DHCP, no SAS, all settings done carefully by hand. You couldn't play games on them, but you know, we weren't there to play games. (Besides, there was xtank on the machine room consoles.) The rest of the company was running Windows 95, and the Windows admins were spending all their time chasing ghosts through the network. (Which we eventually learned were master browser storms. Remember those?) Since neither our NT boxes nor any of the Unix workstations exhibited any symptoms of network problems, and the hundreds of Win95 boxes were having massive failures, the top Windows admin accused us of sabotage. There were high level meetings about it and they sent the Unix admins home and called in forensic specialists. The problem turned out to be that every copy of Win95 defaulted to "browse master" out of the box, and they spent all of their time on the network fighting over the privilege. The solution was to go to each PC and turn off the feature.
So we were exonerated and he quit soon after. I heard the experience ruined his career. So at least for some people, Win95 didn't work out so well.
> Some have stated that Win8 is stated to be a failure already as far as x86 machines go, based on the fact that companies waited 10 years on XP and skipped Vista, and are only now moving to W7
There are companies moving to W7? Don't get me wrong, W7 is not bad once you turn off some of the visual effects settings. [1] It's just that I don't see companies in a hurry to move off XP. It works, it loads programs, the latest browsers work on it, "and since you do everything through a browser now, we're pretty indistinguishable" (obg xkcd reference).
[1] It's time to stop fooling ourselves -- the OS is not an application, and it's not a video game. The purpose of the OS is to load applications and manage resources, not to keep us entertained.
> Win 8 - it's gonna suck, right?
Yep. It's inevitable. I think the even/odd thing is that in release (a) we try new stuff, and in release (b) we fix/withdraw it, and then in release (c) we try new stuff again, so it tends to devolve into even=suck odd=less_suck. Or the other way around, depending on if they start at "1" or "0".
True. The problem is, I hear that Adobe products don't work very well on OSX anymore.
> Windows as you have known it is deprecated, a traditional Windows desktop will be available (certainly on x86, perhaps on arm) for those who are determined enough to figure out how to reenable it but don't expect it to last much longer. If Windows and native Win32 executables themselves are on the chopping block
I think that's going to last about 6 months after Win8 release, and then they're going to realize that early adopters are putting keyboards and mice on their tablets and struggling to re-enable the traditional desktop because that interface reused from Windows Phone 7 isn't doing it for them, and the rest of us are waiting to see what Windows 9 looks like.
Then Win8 service pack 1 will add back in a bunch of stuff they had taken out, and make the traditional desktop the default.
Just sayin'
I think this is yet another indication that SUA is pants and everyone should be using Cygwin.
Holy Mackerel. My mother-in-law actually got one of these calls. She said someone with a nearly unintelligable accent had called saying he was from her ISP and he could see that her computer had a dangerous infection.
Now, mother-in-law is one of the most internet-savvy non-geeks I have ever met. Her first response was "how? the computer is turned off." He babbled something about how they could still tell and insisted she turn it on right now and follow his instructions very carefully. She said he was very excited and talked very forcefully and urgently.
She told him no, she didn't think that was necessary, her son-in-law does all her administration and she was pretty sure her computer was safe. He abruptly hung up. She immediately called me and told me about it. I asked her to boot up, logged in remotely, poked around and started a virus scan. Nothing. Obvious scam.
Well, I figure the restraints would pop up, it'd go through a corkscrew track to clear out the bodies, and then a live steam pressure wash before coming around for the next load. Ooooh, nice warm seats!
I see Helpers armed with tasers ready to stun and remove anyone in line who gets hysterical, and loudspeakers with elevator music and a calming voice telling them how much fun it's going to be. The last couple of cars would be reserved for stunned protesters.
But if the government manages it, half the time it won't make it up the ramp or it'll get stuck upside-down in the first loop. The ride would stop every half hour for contractual coffee breaks. Before the first year of service is up, it'll be discovered that the metalwork was skimped so the manufacturer could pocket some extra cash (after splitting it with a couple senators as part of the cost of doing business) and the whole thing will be condemned and abandoned. The government will go back to gas chambers.
Replace sidewalk with a dumpster, and you'd really have something.
Yeah, why isn't GE paying any taxes?
I think the difference is, tellers don't take home their cash drawers.
Are you suggesting that $330 million gone missing is a small problem?
I suppose it depends on who's money it is.
> Microsoft...you would have gotten a better ROI building a moon base.
Yeah, and then at least they'd have had world domination... oh, wait...
From a utility perspective, Bing doesn't have to be competitive. If Microsoft can force market share through other manipulations, it all amounts to the same thing in the end. Except, of course, for the users, but they don't count.
> Most people using tablets will likely "stay in Metro" most of the time.
I'm sure that's the intent, but I suspect that most people using Metro on tablets will eventually give up and add a keyboard and mouse. Then they'll go to the desktop more and more just to get stuff done, eventually abandoning Metro except for simple media related stuff.
I'm basing this on, every single other time Microsoft has come out with what they said was a "tablet enabled" version of Windows, which were all unusable without keyboard and mouse except for the simplest of tasks. I'm not convinced they 'get it' yet. I'm pretty sure they don't, actually.
> Very few people are complaining that Netflix is doing the wrong thing by pushing streaming; lots of people are of the opinion that streaming is the future of content delivery. However, it's not ready to be the present of content delivery
Reed needs to have this tattooed on his forehead. Backwards, so he can read it in the mirror.
> but the current 1080p content looks decent on my 60" LCD.
That's kindof the issue really. You need over 50" to appreciate full 1080p. (And then you have to have a room big enough that the screen doesn't overwhelm.) We have a 46" LCD and a well authored 480p is fine. 720p is an embarrassment of riches, and 1080p is deep into diminishing returns; a waste of bandwidth for very little gain. With a 60" screen, your mileage probably does vary, but I suspect for most of us, 1080p is just for bragging rights.