Damn, you're right! We've never played Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Metroid, party games, pointer based FPS', or any of the other Wii games before! Viva la revolution!
Check Craigslist and enter the search terms, used wii. You can get Wiis that are only used a day or two and sold near cost. New ones run around $300 - $350.
You should have asked sooner. I would have sold you mine.;)
Also, since I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, the GPU client on the F@H site are all ATI X1900s. The work units performed by GPU clients and Cell clients are of a different type than those performed by general purpose CPUs. Check the F@H FAQs for more information.
Well, since I'm currently running this I thought I would chime in. The PS3 is more than likely using different WUs. The average WU size for the PS3 that I have seen so far is between 400k and 500k frames. The usual range for PC WUs that I have seen is between 5k to 20k frames.
My PC, which is only an Athlon 64 3500+ (benchmarked at 7190 in F@H) can crunch through a frame every 1 minute and 7 seconds. My PS3 is going through a frame every 0.067 seconds.
Frame performance doesn't mean much in F@H because different WUs can have different frame sizes. Nevertheless, the PS3 client is performing a lot of work in a very short period of time. I would be curious to see benchmark results released from Stanford showing the relative performance difference between a high-end Core 2 Duo and the Cell in the PS3.
Your understanding of the word, religion, is limited at best. It has and does describe the strong belief(s) of a particular person or those shared by a group of people. Also, according to the American Heritage Dictionary, 4th Edition, one of its definitions is: "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion." I would say that description could be aptly applied to Environmentalists and many other groups.
I did not say Nintendo has never been about cutting edge graphics, nor did I say that they are against or stifling art. Those words came to your mind for some reason, but I never stated nor insinuated them. Nintendo fought tooth and nail with Sega during the era of 16-bit consoles. They focused heavily on graphics back then. They still did when they created the Nintendo 64, and the GameCube.
I stated that Nintendo does not appreciate games as an art form. That is separate from anything they do with their console hardware. It's a business and design perspective. Microsoft and Sony don't care about games as an art form either. Neither did Sega when they used to make consoles. The only people who cared or still care about games as art are the developers of games and some gamers.
I'm glad you like your Wii. Now go and spend more time playing it and less time misinterpreting my comments on/.
And I wouldn't have a problem with that claim. I ultimately don't care about who copied from whom. My point was that copying and improving a competitor's product is a part of good business. As you've helped me to point out, the assumption that any one company is the originator of all good ideas is erroneous.
Most accountants and commercial software offer some form of audit protection. Assuming you pay for that protection, if your tax return flags an IRS audit, your accountant(s) or the company making the commercial software will work with the IRS on your behalf.
The biggest question of assurance that I have with this is, who is going to keep up with the ever changing tax rules required for this software to be practical?
I love open-source software and all, but this project just strikes me as very pointless and risky.
Yes, we all know how well Wikipedia's fact checking worked out. Those conservatives really need to get their heads out of their asses and learn a thing or two from us, don't they?
Leave it to a philosophy student to completely miss the point. In both cases, Chris was lamenting about the SAME DAMN THING. He didn't like the fact that the latest powerhouse consoles focused almost exclusively. He's bitching at Nintendo for making the Wii underpowered in the CPU. In neither case did he lament lack of graphical power. He was stating that it's out of balance. The new powerhouse consoles don't balance the incredible graphical prowess with equally capable CPU ability. The Wii is even worse, CPU wise. And Nintendo doesn't appreciate games as an art form. They never have, they never will.
The focus on graphics existed since the NES squared off against the Master System (actually before this, but going too far back might make your head hurt.) Remember the sprite wars? The color palette wars? Hell, I remember the sound channel wars. There were storage space wars as well (which cart format could hold the most Megabits.) I also remember sweet, innocent Nintendo charging 50-90 dollars for games in the Super Nintendo era. Especially for the RPGs.
And a little FYI, good old Microsoft copied the analog shoulder trigger idea from SEGA, not Nintendo. Nintendo copied having more than two buttons on a controller from SEGA. Nintendo copied the concept of a joystick, shrunk the stick, and added more buttons. OH NO!! Please, all these companies have been innovating on others ideas since the beginning. That's the meaning of innovation. You take something and make it better or somehow new.
I think the gp's objection wasn't in the wiimote. He stated that everyone thinks it's brilliant. I'm not one of them, but I did own the system and was objective about it. I didn't think it was going to be fun, but I played it, and it was. I then got bored. That is the problem the gp is noting. The games that have been released and those in development are light play, casual gaming experiences. And to answer your burning question, I don't think the wiimote is brilliant because I remember a little thing called the Power Glove. Nintendo finally got that idea to work right, but it is far from something new and brilliant.
You give and you get with the change to a pointing device. You lose ways that games can be played and gain new ones. It does not make every game better. It makes every game different. I still prefer playing Twilight Princess on the Game Cube's controller versus the Wiimote. In the two versions of that game, you can point and shoot the bow and arrow much quicker, while I can rotate my view to gain a tactical advantage. Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
There is something else that I alluded to in one of my old posts. Not everyone can use the Wiimote without waving their arms around. I am one of those people. My wrists are badly damaged because of a motorcycle accident. To play with the Wiimote, I have to make motions using my arms. Using my wrists for more than a few minutes causes me intense pain. That control scheme is not better for me. So my point that every control scheme alienates someone still stands.
Just because you think something's great, don't assume that it's always the best choice for everyone.
Let me preface this by stating some facts that will provide perspective to my argument.
I am quite used to Linux. I used to help my local University setup Linux in their computing labs. I was also one of those nuts who found it fun to use LFS. I started on Slackware and have since become accustomed to every distribution from Debian to Gentoo. I still run OpenBSD (yes, I know it's not Linux) as my network firewall, and have developed production firewalls using IPTables for government contractors. Nothing is "holding me back" from switching. I switched a long time ago. My statement is that there are still applications, (WoW is just one example) that are good enough and have no comparable replacement on Windows, that I need to keep it around.
Now to address your question of why I would not use Wine for WoW. It's really simple. There is a risk that as long as Blizzard does not produce an official client for WoW that your account may be banned for using "third-party" programs. Notice that I stated there is a risk, not a certainty.
I know what wine is. That is why I prefaced that list of tools with emulation/non-native methods. Wine is most certainly not native in the strictest sense. It is a reimplementation of the Windows APIs. It will never run applications as well as those that are made for Linux. It may run them as fast, but never as well. Please note the difference.
The biggest problem with wine itself is that it lets developers be lazy with regards to Linux. Why would I, a game developer, write any cross-platform code when I know that Wine will run it "good enough"? I wouldn't. And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks this way.
In conclusion, you're preaching to the choir about the virtues of Wine or Linux. I was evangelizing these same things before the turn of the Millennium. The comments I make are not really complaints of Linux, but legitimate observations of the software market.
I'm not much of a PC gamer these days, but unless Linux gets real support (not Cedega, nor Wine, nor any other form of emulation/non-native method) of WoW, there's no reason for me to drop my XP box.
Take for example the University. In that environment, those with religious beliefs that conflict with popular activities of their peers (in the case of Christianity: abstaining from indulgence in excessive alcohol consumption, use of illicit drugs, premarital sex, etc.) can and often does lead to ostracizing and ridicule.
My point is that peer pressure in any environment is a powerful element in determining personal morality or the expression thereof.
You might want to consider being less barbarous in your response to people with religious preconceptions. Broadly spun personal attacks, such as referring to people as having a mental virus, were unnecessary to support your argument. It also serves to further close their minds to your message.
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Of course, you and the GP are both missing the larger picture. You assume that packages that are popular to those with the skills to compile source are the same packages that will be popular with Joe User. That is not always the case, nor should you assume that all packages would or should have the source available.
Slashdot Mirror
So that's why gramps is so into Snoop Dogg...
The mental image of your average /. reader having a yeast infection is just not one I wanted over lunch.
Because good sales numbers do not always coincide with good games. Case in point: Burger King games for Xbox 360.
Goddamnit man, you're going to piss off the Wiiple and somehow they still have a lot of mod points.
Damn, you're right! We've never played Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Metroid, party games, pointer based FPS', or any of the other Wii games before! Viva la revolution!
Check Craigslist and enter the search terms, used wii. You can get Wiis that are only used a day or two and sold near cost. New ones run around $300 - $350.
;)
You should have asked sooner. I would have sold you mine.
Also, since I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, the GPU client on the F@H site are all ATI X1900s. The work units performed by GPU clients and Cell clients are of a different type than those performed by general purpose CPUs. Check the F@H FAQs for more information.
Well, since I'm currently running this I thought I would chime in. The PS3 is more than likely using different WUs. The average WU size for the PS3 that I have seen so far is between 400k and 500k frames. The usual range for PC WUs that I have seen is between 5k to 20k frames.
My PC, which is only an Athlon 64 3500+ (benchmarked at 7190 in F@H) can crunch through a frame every 1 minute and 7 seconds.
My PS3 is going through a frame every 0.067 seconds.
Frame performance doesn't mean much in F@H because different WUs can have different frame sizes. Nevertheless, the PS3 client is performing a lot of work in a very short period of time. I would be curious to see benchmark results released from Stanford showing the relative performance difference between a high-end Core 2 Duo and the Cell in the PS3.
Your understanding of the word, religion, is limited at best. It has and does describe the strong belief(s) of a particular person or those shared by a group of people. Also, according to the American Heritage Dictionary, 4th Edition, one of its definitions is: "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion." I would say that description could be aptly applied to Environmentalists and many other groups.
To answer your question simply, no.
/.
I did not say Nintendo has never been about cutting edge graphics, nor did I say that they are against or stifling art. Those words came to your mind for some reason, but I never stated nor insinuated them. Nintendo fought tooth and nail with Sega during the era of 16-bit consoles. They focused heavily on graphics back then. They still did when they created the Nintendo 64, and the GameCube.
I stated that Nintendo does not appreciate games as an art form. That is separate from anything they do with their console hardware. It's a business and design perspective. Microsoft and Sony don't care about games as an art form either. Neither did Sega when they used to make consoles. The only people who cared or still care about games as art are the developers of games and some gamers.
I'm glad you like your Wii. Now go and spend more time playing it and less time misinterpreting my comments on
And I wouldn't have a problem with that claim. I ultimately don't care about who copied from whom. My point was that copying and improving a competitor's product is a part of good business. As you've helped me to point out, the assumption that any one company is the originator of all good ideas is erroneous.
Most accountants and commercial software offer some form of audit protection. Assuming you pay for that protection, if your tax return flags an IRS audit, your accountant(s) or the company making the commercial software will work with the IRS on your behalf.
The biggest question of assurance that I have with this is, who is going to keep up with the ever changing tax rules required for this software to be practical?
I love open-source software and all, but this project just strikes me as very pointless and risky.
Yes, we all know how well Wikipedia's fact checking worked out. Those conservatives really need to get their heads out of their asses and learn a thing or two from us, don't they?
I was talking about the Wiimote in that sentence, not the Wii. I see you managed to miss that. Again.
Leave it to a philosophy student to completely miss the point. In both cases, Chris was lamenting about the SAME DAMN THING. He didn't like the fact that the latest powerhouse consoles focused almost exclusively. He's bitching at Nintendo for making the Wii underpowered in the CPU. In neither case did he lament lack of graphical power. He was stating that it's out of balance. The new powerhouse consoles don't balance the incredible graphical prowess with equally capable CPU ability. The Wii is even worse, CPU wise. And Nintendo doesn't appreciate games as an art form. They never have, they never will.
The focus on graphics existed since the NES squared off against the Master System (actually before this, but going too far back might make your head hurt.) Remember the sprite wars? The color palette wars? Hell, I remember the sound channel wars. There were storage space wars as well (which cart format could hold the most Megabits.) I also remember sweet, innocent Nintendo charging 50-90 dollars for games in the Super Nintendo era. Especially for the RPGs.
And a little FYI, good old Microsoft copied the analog shoulder trigger idea from SEGA, not Nintendo. Nintendo copied having more than two buttons on a controller from SEGA. Nintendo copied the concept of a joystick, shrunk the stick, and added more buttons. OH NO!! Please, all these companies have been innovating on others ideas since the beginning. That's the meaning of innovation. You take something and make it better or somehow new.
I think the gp's objection wasn't in the wiimote. He stated that everyone thinks it's brilliant. I'm not one of them, but I did own the system and was objective about it. I didn't think it was going to be fun, but I played it, and it was. I then got bored. That is the problem the gp is noting. The games that have been released and those in development are light play, casual gaming experiences. And to answer your burning question, I don't think the wiimote is brilliant because I remember a little thing called the Power Glove. Nintendo finally got that idea to work right, but it is far from something new and brilliant.
You give and you get with the change to a pointing device. You lose ways that games can be played and gain new ones. It does not make every game better. It makes every game different. I still prefer playing Twilight Princess on the Game Cube's controller versus the Wiimote. In the two versions of that game, you can point and shoot the bow and arrow much quicker, while I can rotate my view to gain a tactical advantage. Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
There is something else that I alluded to in one of my old posts. Not everyone can use the Wiimote without waving their arms around. I am one of those people. My wrists are badly damaged because of a motorcycle accident. To play with the Wiimote, I have to make motions using my arms. Using my wrists for more than a few minutes causes me intense pain. That control scheme is not better for me. So my point that every control scheme alienates someone still stands.
Just because you think something's great, don't assume that it's always the best choice for everyone.
I don't know. Ask Tom.
Let me preface this by stating some facts that will provide perspective to my argument.
I am quite used to Linux. I used to help my local University setup Linux in their computing labs. I was also one of those nuts who found it fun to use LFS. I started on Slackware and have since become accustomed to every distribution from Debian to Gentoo. I still run OpenBSD (yes, I know it's not Linux) as my network firewall, and have developed production firewalls using IPTables for government contractors. Nothing is "holding me back" from switching. I switched a long time ago. My statement is that there are still applications, (WoW is just one example) that are good enough and have no comparable replacement on Windows, that I need to keep it around.
Now to address your question of why I would not use Wine for WoW. It's really simple. There is a risk that as long as Blizzard does not produce an official client for WoW that your account may be banned for using "third-party" programs. Notice that I stated there is a risk, not a certainty.
I know what wine is. That is why I prefaced that list of tools with emulation/non-native methods. Wine is most certainly not native in the strictest sense. It is a reimplementation of the Windows APIs. It will never run applications as well as those that are made for Linux. It may run them as fast, but never as well. Please note the difference.
The biggest problem with wine itself is that it lets developers be lazy with regards to Linux. Why would I, a game developer, write any cross-platform code when I know that Wine will run it "good enough"? I wouldn't. And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks this way.
In conclusion, you're preaching to the choir about the virtues of Wine or Linux. I was evangelizing these same things before the turn of the Millennium. The comments I make are not really complaints of Linux, but legitimate observations of the software market.
Besides, everyone knows that Black on White is always more fun!
Once you go black you... wait, wrong site.
I'm not much of a PC gamer these days, but unless Linux gets real support (not Cedega, nor Wine, nor any other form of emulation/non-native method) of WoW, there's no reason for me to drop my XP box.
Take for example the University. In that environment, those with religious beliefs that conflict with popular activities of their peers (in the case of Christianity: abstaining from indulgence in excessive alcohol consumption, use of illicit drugs, premarital sex, etc.) can and often does lead to ostracizing and ridicule.
My point is that peer pressure in any environment is a powerful element in determining personal morality or the expression thereof.
I would say this dubious honor falls humanities need for sexual contact and perceived notions of love.
Three words: Small Form Factor.
You might want to consider being less barbarous in your response to people with religious preconceptions. Broadly spun personal attacks, such as referring to people as having a mental virus, were unnecessary to support your argument. It also serves to further close their minds to your message.
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Of course, you and the GP are both missing the larger picture. You assume that packages that are popular to those with the skills to compile source are the same packages that will be popular with Joe User. That is not always the case, nor should you assume that all packages would or should have the source available.