I do work for a road service company and we put terminals in garages across the country. I would say the average mechanic is a lot hard on hardware than the average library user.
We use Maxterm Which runs Linux which then launches a critrix client to connect to our critrix farm. This will do everything you asked of it plus is very robust. The terminals don't have HD (just flash memory) so no hacks are permanent. I hope this helps
But real world factors will almost always mess them up.
I think the real world factors can be over come (the first traffic lights didn't handle left or right turns either it was still left up to the human driver to decide if it was safe to go.) What I think would take the most pushing is tell someone the 2 computers are going to take you barreling through an intersection missing other cars only by centimeters and you should feel comfortable with this. Now that is a PR spin I would like to see.
As stated before in these posts an Intel chip with HT is not a dual core chip is definitely not, nor should it be regarded as a dual core chip. HT basically just presents two threads to the execution core at once but there is still only one execution core hence the one CPU license
There is no way that MS or Oracle etc... could get away with charging you double for a HT processor as it is in no way two CPU's at best you only get maybe 10-30% increase in performance.
Yes everyone agrees that child porn is a bad thing so actions like generically blocking access to child porn is seen as a good thing and easy to get users to approve off, but keeping a database of every users surfing habits just because they happen to hit a child porn site once is a bit much to ask the users to accept.
For example I used to work at a university where we implement a porn monitoring system which would try to block access to sites "deemed" to be pornographic. That went over ok with the facility and stuff but once we mention that we keep a history of all the block sites (ONLY the block sites) they tried to visit all hell broke lose and the monitoring was switched off.
It is all really just a matter of where you draw the line I suppose.
But while you may have long since decided that Windows isn't very well engineered, I would have to disagree with you on that point. Windows is simply the only seriously interesting target for hackers, virus and word authors, and spammers.
I don't know about you but how does being a serious target for hackers, virus and word authors justify it as being "well engineered"? I would have thought that classified it as being poorly engineered??
I have been following GFS for a while now and have been waiting for it to come out. As an oracle DBA working with 9i RAC I can tell you that RAW or OCFS partitions suck and are overly hard to manage. Not to mention to various bugs that come with OCFS (the unable to remove directory bug anyone???)
Yes... How many BMW owners don't opt for the CD Changer?
True, but if you knew this was a option when buying your new car wouldn't you opt not to have cd changer for this? It's hard to feel sorry for existing BMW owners that could afford the CD changer and thus miss out on listening to ipod.
From the apple website and their streaming ad it doesn't look like you get the song title/info.
It appears to work like this, you get 5 BMW specific playlists to load tracks into. From the car controls you can then choose playlist numbered 1-5 and song 1-(how many songs you load in that play list). So on your dash (at least the none LCD ones) you only get numbers but maybe on the upper models with LCD screens you might get more info
I totally agree with you there. I sat the solaris exam just recently and it was so easy to pass it wasn't funny.
One of the good things it did for me though was make me aware of just how easy it was so the next CV that comes across my desk for a UNIX admin who only has Certifications but no real experiences I am not going to consider for anything other than a tape monkey.
Some years ago I was thinking about getting a dual processor system. Alone the motherboard was two times as expensive as a similar single processor one
OK dual mobo's are more expensive but they are normally better built plus once you have use a dual machine as a desktop you won't go back, it just so much snappier.
applications did not support it all and so on. I hope newer applications are ready for dual cores. Quake III was the first game I know that used two processors and finally I can consider that animated desktop background.
When you buy and multi CPU machine for home/desktop use you have to think multiprocessing your work. Ok so some apps don't use the benefit of SMP natively, why do run two CPU heavy apps at once? IE play games + play mp3/ogg files without shutter? (ok not a good example but you get the idea).
Is there a list which applications can effectively use dual cores besides obvious things like webservers?
Anything is that is multithreaded or multi processed (databases etc) will take advantage of a SMP environment
How long will it take to argue that consumers with a dual core processor should pay 2x the price? I'm betting not long.
unlikely to happen, oracle has a license structure that charges per CPU, so for dual core CPU's like the power4 oracle only counts physical CPU's same with the xeon HT(yes I know HT is not the same as dual core) etc...
Think about it this way, when you buy a machine from these guys you don't spec it out by the cores but rather by actual CPU's.
Yep 4-5k txns a day for one table is not alot but if you are updating 10-12 tables per transaction then the join time only has huge IO for the transaction.
bsolutely, but that was not the question. It was why use Oracle on low-end hardware, not why use Oracle at all.
Yep understand that but you answered because oracle is fast I was merely point out that oracle is not always fast, actually if not set up right it is dead slow. I said that towards end of post. I tend to crap on sometimes so my meaning gets lost:)
True, It is a system that is constant development. Like I said we have production and development(new). So if you are not deploying just one app but many over a long period of time you have to have a development environment the mirrors the production which your apps are already running on. Oracle will charge you for this at the same rate your production environment is charged at.
racle for Linux is compiled against old versions of Suse with ancient glibc libraries. This causes its installation to fail on any modern distributation, unless you apply lots of compatibility patches and some ugly hacks to the configuation.
Umm, I don't know which versions of oracle you recently tried but since 9.2.0.4 it installs just fine with all versions of glibc. I have tried in on redhat 9 fedcore 1 and 2 and gentoo. Maybe you should give it another go
It bloody well better support all browsers as it is only web based now (no more client), well it is there but it doesn't support the extra packs IE tuning etc....
The main problem installing oracle 9.2.0.2 on any redhat system above 8 was the broken implememtation of glibc that the oracle install depended on (just in case you didn't know when oracle installs it will actually recomplie it's self depending on the options you selected hense the need for glibc). When redhat switch to 9 (can't comment on other distros) the broken glibc was fixed unfortunately this then broke oracle's install as it depended on the previous implementation. However oracle 9.2.0.4 and above fix this and will install fine on almost any distro I have used (fed core 1, redhat 9, redhat AS 2.1/3, suse, mandrake 10).
And yes, I have read that Oracle is dumping Solaris, not M$. But it is not the jumping off that matters, it is the jumping on. They are still giving more credibility, both as an employer and as a software manufacturer, to Linux).
Oracle have pretty much done everything but dump MS. When 10g was released every bit of software for the MS platform come out atleast 2-3 months after the Unix versions and sometimes 6 months after the linux (beta) versions. The Linux version where always first and recieved the biggest push from oracle sales. Speak to any oracle sales guy now and he/she will push 10g grid running on linux on "commodity" intel hardware.
This is not a major event, but it is a good straw in the wind.
That really depends on who you speak to. If you have alot of oracle DB's or you business depends on oracle it is a major event. IE when I joined my present company all DB's where running on HP machines when it came time to upgrade I managed to sell the CIO on the idea of Oracle RAC + DELL + EMC which came out alot cheapper plus proved to be more reliable(big gamble but I had faith). Now they trust linux and are allowing more and more linux servers into other key area's of the business (IE firewall, file servers, gateways etc...) so 60% of the servers are Linux and it now looks like linux for the desktop is a real possibility through out the organisation which means that the remaining 40% of the servers can be switched (the last 40% where groupware servers IE exchange etc...which required a certain os). So like I said it really depends on who you ask or which way you look at it before you say if it is a major event or not
Oracle developers will be working on Oracle software.
The Oracle guys will also be working on the kernel (mainly memory management. IO and file systems OCFS) with leading linux distros (read redhat) to produce a better kernel for the database, hence redhat advanced server.
If you are running oracle on redhat (Linux) advanced server you can get direct support for linux (as well as the traditional database/oracle software questions) from the oracle helpdesk and metalink. That is of course if you have paid you maintaince fee
My Question is this, what version of oracle are you going to use? IE entprise, standard etc..
The chances are that if you are only looking at sub $1000 hardware the price of an oracle license is going to kill you.
But to answer your question I have setup oracle on redhat linux on a machine that was close to your specs for a "proof of concept" It was able to handle 4k-5k transactions a day without break to much of a sweet but big DB operations (IE full exports imports, sqlldr) really killed the machine and often took hours/days to complete even in direct mode. So short answer is if your data set is small (ie most sql's + result sets can be keep in the buffer cache/ram) and the app is transactional (not data warehouse type operation) and your concurrent user base if fairly small then yes a production oracle DB on that hardware can work just fine.
Also, Oracle allows you use their database for development and prototyping for free
That is not true. Well it made be true for you and your company, depending on what deal you guys cut, but not for everyone. I just spoke to oracle sales today about getting a license for our new dev environment and they said that we would have to pay for the same license that production runs. IE to run our dev environment on a dual CPU dell 4600 with the same DB features of the enterprise edition running in production we would have to buy the same license at the same price as the production license costs even though the dell has no where near the IO of the production machine. Hell if you want to use oracle data guard (TM) as a redunancy solution you have to buy an extra license for the backup machine even thought IT IS NOT ON!!!
Remember oracle didn't become the second largest and richest software corp buy givening things away, they well get their $ out of you in the end
Because Oracle is fast. Very, very fast. Not only is it fast, but it has serious database features. Its like putting a $30,000 engine in a Yugo
Oracle may be fast in comparision to other enterprise databases (Db2, sqlserver etc....) but for some applications/organisations it is just far to over the top. For small websites/apps the default SGA in 10g is just far to high + 90% of the features you don't need and if you haven't install it properly (IE seperate files on seperate disks 7 minium) plus tuned the schema's plus redo log groups etc it will just crawl and cause massive IO. So for some small apps and small companies oracle + DBA is just far to expensive and far to over the top to get the speed out of it. They would be far better off going mysql, sql server etc...
Having working at a club(during university) that ran poker machines (in australia most pubs/clubs have them) I am sorry to tell you that each machine is uniquely configurable by the owners and not the manufacturer. You can set How many times a day it will pay, what the average size of the pay out will be etc.... there is very little randomness left in these machines now.
NB also they got reset every night so the rational This machine has to spew out a lot of money at SOME point in its existence. So the longer I stay with this one, the more my odds go up that I'll be the one who pulls the lever at the right time. is not really going to hold up as every day is a new day for them.
So you are that boring bastard that no one talks to at the Christmas party
lighten up!!!
On a more serious side of things this kind of activity (if not taken to far) actually brings the employees closer together so that when it comes crunch time (IE dead line approaching or server dieing in the ass) they work far better together and are less likely to kill each other. It also makes managers more approachable thus allowing incouraging the flow of good ideas that otherwise would not have made it.
The Company I work for was looking to upgrade their master oracle 9i database to faster hardware so we could support more users.
What we needed was a 4 CPU sun machine, along the lines of a v880. The problem was that a) that machine cost a fortune b) 4 CPUs means you have to get an enterprise license from oracle(per CPU). Even more expensive than the hardware.
On the other hand for about 20% of the price (hardware and software) we could get 2 dell 4600 with 1TB of disk each running redhat advance server 3 and oracle standard edition license.
I will leave it up to you as to which one we picked
Slashdot Mirror
I do work for a road service company and we put terminals in garages across the country. I would say the average mechanic is a lot hard on hardware than the average library user.
We use Maxterm Which runs Linux which then launches a critrix client to connect to our critrix farm. This will do everything you asked of it plus is very robust. The terminals don't have HD (just flash memory) so no hacks are permanent. I hope this helps
I thought googles news interface was busy until I saw this
talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees
I think the real world factors can be over come (the first traffic lights didn't handle left or right turns either it was still left up to the human driver to decide if it was safe to go.) What I think would take the most pushing is tell someone the 2 computers are going to take you barreling through an intersection missing other cars only by centimeters and you should feel comfortable with this. Now that is a PR spin I would like to see.
As stated before in these posts an Intel chip with HT is not a dual core chip is definitely not, nor should it be regarded as a dual core chip. HT basically just presents two threads to the execution core at once but there is still only one execution core hence the one CPU license
There is no way that MS or Oracle etc... could get away with charging you double for a HT processor as it is in no way two CPU's at best you only get maybe 10-30% increase in performance.
I total agree
Yes everyone agrees that child porn is a bad thing so actions like generically blocking access to child porn is seen as a good thing and easy to get users to approve off, but keeping a database of every users surfing habits just because they happen to hit a child porn site once is a bit much to ask the users to accept.
For example I used to work at a university where we implement a porn monitoring system which would try to block access to sites "deemed" to be pornographic. That went over ok with the facility and stuff but once we mention that we keep a history of all the block sites (ONLY the block sites) they tried to visit all hell broke lose and the monitoring was switched off.
It is all really just a matter of where you draw the line I suppose.
I don't know about you but how does being a serious target for hackers, virus and word authors justify it as being "well engineered"? I would have thought that classified it as being poorly engineered??
I have been following GFS for a while now and have been waiting for it to come out. As an oracle DBA working with 9i RAC I can tell you that RAW or OCFS partitions suck and are overly hard to manage. Not to mention to various bugs that come with OCFS (the unable to remove directory bug anyone???)
True, but if you knew this was a option when buying your new car wouldn't you opt not to have cd changer for this? It's hard to feel sorry for existing BMW owners that could afford the CD changer and thus miss out on listening to ipod.
From the apple website and their streaming ad it doesn't look like you get the song title/info.
It appears to work like this, you get 5 BMW specific playlists to load tracks into. From the car controls you can then choose playlist numbered 1-5 and song 1-(how many songs you load in that play list). So on your dash (at least the none LCD ones) you only get numbers but maybe on the upper models with LCD screens you might get more info
I totally agree with you there. I sat the solaris exam just recently and it was so easy to pass it wasn't funny.
One of the good things it did for me though was make me aware of just how easy it was so the next CV that comes across my desk for a UNIX admin who only has Certifications but no real experiences I am not going to consider for anything other than a tape monkey.
OK dual mobo's are more expensive but they are normally better built plus once you have use a dual machine as a desktop you won't go back, it just so much snappier.
applications did not support it all and so on. I hope newer applications are ready for dual cores. Quake III was the first game I know that used two processors and finally I can consider that animated desktop background.When you buy and multi CPU machine for home/desktop use you have to think multiprocessing your work. Ok so some apps don't use the benefit of SMP natively, why do run two CPU heavy apps at once? IE play games + play mp3/ogg files without shutter? (ok not a good example but you get the idea).
Is there a list which applications can effectively use dual cores besides obvious things like webservers?Anything is that is multithreaded or multi processed (databases etc) will take advantage of a SMP environment
unlikely to happen, oracle has a license structure that charges per CPU, so for dual core CPU's like the power4 oracle only counts physical CPU's same with the xeon HT(yes I know HT is not the same as dual core) etc...
Think about it this way, when you buy a machine from these guys you don't spec it out by the cores but rather by actual CPU's.
Yep 4-5k txns a day for one table is not alot but if you are updating 10-12 tables per transaction then the join time only has huge IO for the transaction.
bsolutely, but that was not the question. It was why use Oracle on low-end hardware, not why use Oracle at all.
Yep understand that but you answered because oracle is fast I was merely point out that oracle is not always fast, actually if not set up right it is dead slow. I said that towards end of post. I tend to crap on sometimes so my meaning gets lost :)
True, It is a system that is constant development. Like I said we have production and development(new). So if you are not deploying just one app but many over a long period of time you have to have a development environment the mirrors the production which your apps are already running on. Oracle will charge you for this at the same rate your production environment is charged at.
racle for Linux is compiled against old versions of Suse with ancient glibc libraries. This causes its installation to fail on any modern distributation, unless you apply lots of compatibility patches and some ugly hacks to the configuation.
Umm, I don't know which versions of oracle you recently tried but since 9.2.0.4 it installs just fine with all versions of glibc. I have tried in on redhat 9 fedcore 1 and 2 and gentoo. Maybe you should give it another go
It bloody well better support all browsers as it is only web based now (no more client), well it is there but it doesn't support the extra packs IE tuning etc....
The main problem installing oracle 9.2.0.2 on any redhat system above 8 was the broken implememtation of glibc that the oracle install depended on (just in case you didn't know when oracle installs it will actually recomplie it's self depending on the options you selected hense the need for glibc). When redhat switch to 9 (can't comment on other distros) the broken glibc was fixed unfortunately this then broke oracle's install as it depended on the previous implementation. However oracle 9.2.0.4 and above fix this and will install fine on almost any distro I have used (fed core 1, redhat 9, redhat AS 2.1/3, suse, mandrake 10).
And yes, I have read that Oracle is dumping Solaris, not M$. But it is not the jumping off that matters, it is the jumping on. They are still giving more credibility, both as an employer and as a software manufacturer, to Linux).
Oracle have pretty much done everything but dump MS. When 10g was released every bit of software for the MS platform come out atleast 2-3 months after the Unix versions and sometimes 6 months after the linux (beta) versions. The Linux version where always first and recieved the biggest push from oracle sales. Speak to any oracle sales guy now and he/she will push 10g grid running on linux on "commodity" intel hardware.
This is not a major event, but it is a good straw in the wind.
That really depends on who you speak to. If you have alot of oracle DB's or you business depends on oracle it is a major event. IE when I joined my present company all DB's where running on HP machines when it came time to upgrade I managed to sell the CIO on the idea of Oracle RAC + DELL + EMC which came out alot cheapper plus proved to be more reliable(big gamble but I had faith). Now they trust linux and are allowing more and more linux servers into other key area's of the business (IE firewall, file servers, gateways etc...) so 60% of the servers are Linux and it now looks like linux for the desktop is a real possibility through out the organisation which means that the remaining 40% of the servers can be switched (the last 40% where groupware servers IE exchange etc...which required a certain os). So like I said it really depends on who you ask or which way you look at it before you say if it is a major event or not
Oracle developers will be working on Oracle software.
The Oracle guys will also be working on the kernel (mainly memory management. IO and file systems OCFS) with leading linux distros (read redhat) to produce a better kernel for the database, hence redhat advanced server.
If you are running oracle on redhat (Linux) advanced server you can get direct support for linux (as well as the traditional database/oracle software questions) from the oracle helpdesk and metalink. That is of course if you have paid you maintaince fee
My Question is this, what version of oracle are you going to use? IE entprise, standard etc..
The chances are that if you are only looking at sub $1000 hardware the price of an oracle license is going to kill you.
But to answer your question I have setup oracle on redhat linux on a machine that was close to your specs for a "proof of concept" It was able to handle 4k-5k transactions a day without break to much of a sweet but big DB operations (IE full exports imports, sqlldr) really killed the machine and often took hours/days to complete even in direct mode. So short answer is if your data set is small (ie most sql's + result sets can be keep in the buffer cache/ram) and the app is transactional (not data warehouse type operation) and your concurrent user base if fairly small then yes a production oracle DB on that hardware can work just fine.
Also, Oracle allows you use their database for development and prototyping for free
That is not true. Well it made be true for you and your company, depending on what deal you guys cut, but not for everyone. I just spoke to oracle sales today about getting a license for our new dev environment and they said that we would have to pay for the same license that production runs. IE to run our dev environment on a dual CPU dell 4600 with the same DB features of the enterprise edition running in production we would have to buy the same license at the same price as the production license costs even though the dell has no where near the IO of the production machine. Hell if you want to use oracle data guard (TM) as a redunancy solution you have to buy an extra license for the backup machine even thought IT IS NOT ON!!!
Remember oracle didn't become the second largest and richest software corp buy givening things away, they well get their $ out of you in the end
Because Oracle is fast. Very, very fast. Not only is it fast, but it has serious database features. Its like putting a $30,000 engine in a Yugo
Oracle may be fast in comparision to other enterprise databases (Db2, sqlserver etc....) but for some applications/organisations it is just far to over the top. For small websites/apps the default SGA in 10g is just far to high + 90% of the features you don't need and if you haven't install it properly (IE seperate files on seperate disks 7 minium) plus tuned the schema's plus redo log groups etc it will just crawl and cause massive IO. So for some small apps and small companies oracle + DBA is just far to expensive and far to over the top to get the speed out of it. They would be far better off going mysql, sql server etc...
Having working at a club(during university) that ran poker machines (in australia most pubs/clubs have them) I am sorry to tell you that each machine is uniquely configurable by the owners and not the manufacturer. You can set How many times a day it will pay, what the average size of the pay out will be etc.... there is very little randomness left in these machines now.
NB also they got reset every night so the rational This machine has to spew out a lot of money at SOME point in its existence. So the longer I stay with this one, the more my odds go up that I'll be the one who pulls the lever at the right time. is not really going to hold up as every day is a new day for them.
So you are that boring bastard that no one talks to at the Christmas party
lighten up!!!
On a more serious side of things this kind of activity (if not taken to far) actually brings the employees closer together so that when it comes crunch time (IE dead line approaching or server dieing in the ass) they work far better together and are less likely to kill each other. It also makes managers more approachable thus allowing incouraging the flow of good ideas that otherwise would not have made it.
I total agree with you
The Company I work for was looking to upgrade their master oracle 9i database to faster hardware so we could support more users.
What we needed was a 4 CPU sun machine, along the lines of a v880. The problem was that a) that machine cost a fortune b) 4 CPUs means you have to get an enterprise license from oracle(per CPU). Even more expensive than the hardware.
On the other hand for about 20% of the price (hardware and software) we could get 2 dell 4600 with 1TB of disk each running redhat advance server 3 and oracle standard edition license.
I will leave it up to you as to which one we picked