Every DirecTV receiver, with or without Tivo, already has this programming data in it. But only on the DirecTivo do you pay $4.95 extra for it.
I own a DirecTivo myself, and I agree that it's the best deal in TV. But I find Tivo's explanations of their pricing sadly dishonest. It does not cost near $5/month on the DirecTivo or $13/month on the standalone to provide the programming info. The true story is that they sell a $350 machine for $100 and take the $250 in fees over the years instead.
So my complaint is not about the money but about the phony explanations. And whether you agree with that or not, it does in fact scare away a lot of customers who perceive it as sneaky.
You could use the early models as just digital VCRs without the service, but that was changed quite a while ago. A Tivo without an active subscription will revert to "Boat Anchor Mode".
And even for the early models, you have to request to download an old version of the software to keep using it like this.
So you actually are paying a subscription to record TV.
I own 2 Tivos and 200 shares. I love the product as much as anyone. But I think the subscription pricing policy is scaring away at least half the potential customer base. They see it as a sham, and to some extent it is.
In Sweden, and I'm sure also Norway, either side can appeal a verdict to a higher court. And then appeal that to the supreme court, but they only take special ly significant cases.
But there is no double jeopardy in the sense that they can't start a new trial from scratch once you've been acquitted.
I'm not forgetting that companies charge for upgrades. I even mentioned that you usually pay for them.
My point was that you compared prices between brand new programs and upgrades, and found that the upgrades are cheaper. Of course they are! That is not a fair comparision.
The users who are expected to pay for this already have the functionality to burn DVDs etc. The $50 is for whatever incremental upgrades the new releases contain.
Now, we did get those for free, which as you say is a very good price. But it also makes it a pretty nasty price increase to charge $50 for a simple upgrade. Upgrades are normally 20% or so of the original price, I think/guess. Not infinite billion % higher!!
As you say, we don't know what the upgrades are yet. Maybe it is phenomenally great stuff. Or it may be just a few new marginal features and bug fixes it's a whole other. The level of outrage will have to be adjusted accordingly.
Yeah, I understand the idea, I just don't share it. I hope people do well wherever they are and whatever nation they're citizens of. I give my friends preferiential, but beyond that, I don't know why I should favor some fellow national I've never met over a foreigner I've never met. Were I to choose whose quality of life to improve, I would chose whoever I thought needed or deserved it most, regardless.
And in this instance when some of the highest paid groups in the richest nation in history are crying over losing some fraction of their wealth to the much much poorer, I just find it appaingly greedy.
Not that my fellow Swedes are any better at these things even though they talk more about it. It's the same mentality there and here. And I oppose it on both sides.
If you think H1Bs are given a preferential treatment over Americans you are very mistaken. Being on H1B is a fairly big handicap when job hunting. I know, I've done it several times. Half the companies won't even talk to you.
And yeah, people will complain over America, justly and unjustly. You're the ruler of the planet, the richest and most powerful nation in history. Complaints from the less fortunate comes with the territory. Just try to not whine about it, it really doesn't look good from the outside.
As one of those Silicon Valley H1Bs, that is precisely what I have seen over 5 years.
I guess there has to be some reality behind all the stories that there is an other H1B market out there that runs Indian programmer sweatshops of some kind, but I haven't seen any of it.
Also, I'm sure there are many angry unemployed US engineers who think they are the smartest thing since Einstein, but are really just one of those intolerably arrogant and combative nerds (of any nationality) that we have all had the misfortune to work with. Blaming H1Bs must be very natural to them when they fume their days away on Slashdot, since there can obviously not be anything wrong with themselves.
The scenario (which I think is mostly bogus, but that's an other issue) only lowers the overall standard of living if you don't include the foreigner, who gets a highly increased standard, in your calculations.
Or in other words it is based on the idea that non americans aren't people.
That used to be a problem, but 1-2 years ago they changed it so you can start working for a new company 2 weeks after you quit the old one. The visa still takes 3-6 months to process, but you can work while they process it.
In theory they could deny the visa and you get deported after those months, but since you already have one H1B, it would take a lot for them to deny you a new one, since you are the same person with the same credentials.
I'm an H1B since 5 years, and I have never seen those lower wages everyone's going on about. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but in the companies I and my friends have been at H1Bs are treated just like everyone else.
The best way to learn what the ramifications are has to be to go ahead and change the weather. If we don't like what happens, we can just change it back.
I agree that surfing slashdot is a poor substitute for food, shelter and medical care.
But consider that access to the net can help with many of the basic things. You may not have a doctor, but you can find medical info on the web. You can learn new and better ways to grow food and build shelter rather than whatever your grandfather was taught by his grandfather.
And not least, by knowing about what goes on in the world, you can become a better informed citizen and less of a clueless and easily manipulated pawn of whoever is in charge.
My DirecTivo can record PPV movies in perfect quality today, and I'm allowed to store it for as long as I please.
This is clearly a feature intended by DirecTV and Tivo to be there, not a technical accident.
And if this didn't work, I would watch far fewer PPV movies. Once you've gone Tivo, it's very hard to go back to being forced to watch something in one sitting at a specific time.
I believe they still offer the old service on old systems that were sold under the premisse that they could be used without subscription. If you call Tivo support they can probably activate that, or you could just wait for it to download the newer software.
I have the DirecTivo, which is exactly the tuner you describe. Except it has two tuners. And it stores the exact signal coming from the satellite, so you get perfect quality.
My flat earth argument wasn't meant to say that the round earth arguments are complicated, but rather that things aren't always the way they seem to the casual or naive observer. That even applies when it both seems really obviously true and/or everyone you know also thinks so. Maybe quantum physics or relativity would have been better examples, even though I remember my bewilderment when first confronted with the round earth theory at age 5 or so.
The most similar example to the free market example is evolution. In both cases highly organized and ingenious systems develop from much simpler roots, with no planning or thinking force behind it. "Spontaneous order" just doesn't make sense to the casual observer, and as we know both many people refuse to accept both the evolution and free market concepts.
I like your professors normal language ambition. Too many people don't really understand what they're learning, they just repeat phrases and formulas. But as you say, some complex sounding things actually are both complex and counter intuitive. And I claim that this is one of them.
There is a lot of relative poverty in the US, but I'd say that the "wealthiest country on earth" label is very real for 60-80% of the population. And especially so for the software engineers this discussion is about, many of whom make $100K or more per year. If they/we have been knocked down a bit earnings wise, that is a setback for the few rich, not the poor masses.
As to your final comment about morality. If you don't care about morals, there are several far more profitable careers than software engineering that are open to you.
I meant it is cheaper to produce. How that propagates through the black magic that is software pricing, I'm not smart enough to figure out. Especially since we had the whole dot.com bubble bitchslapping the sector back and forth during the same time. Aside from pricing, it could be higher quality, more features or simply higher profits for the makers.
I know the higher profits part annoys a lot of people, but those things are only temporary. If it keeps up, the high profitability will attract more players, leading to greater competition and lower profits.
If you think about the majority of software projects that do not result in a software product on the shelfs, but are in house developments it gets a bit clearer.
The notion that buying from a cheaper foreign supplier is good for the buyer but bad for the country is a very common fallacy.
It's one of those things that seem self evident on the face of it, and requires a long and fairly complicated argument to dispel. A bit like how the earth obviously is flat - just look out the window!
The argument for free trade can be found in most elementary economics texts, and I'm not going to repeat it here. Search for "comparative advantage", and you should find a zillion examples.
Of course this example of free trade is probably not good for US programmers, even though the lowered software development costs are good for the US as a whole. That's of course true of any industry exposed to international competition. But the sum of all the effects of competition to each individual industry is very good for everyone, and and one of the main causes that the US is the wealthiest country on earth.
Personally I've programmed for 15+ years, and am doing fine. A few years ago anyone who had seen a computer on a post card could get hired as a "programmer". I'm glad those days are gone, as now I only get to work with skilled professionals.
I'm sure they are wondering about the same questions. And the only way to really find out is to go ahead and test it. This and many other versions of online ads. It may work, or it may fail. Eventually they will bump into a model that works pretty well for everybody.
And that day Slashdot will be full of posts from people who had known all along that that was obviously the way to do it...
Slashdot Mirror
Every DirecTV receiver, with or without Tivo, already has this programming data in it. But only on the DirecTivo do you pay $4.95 extra for it.
I own a DirecTivo myself, and I agree that it's the best deal in TV. But I find Tivo's explanations of their pricing sadly dishonest. It does not cost near $5/month on the DirecTivo or $13/month on the standalone to provide the programming info. The true story is that they sell a $350 machine for $100 and take the $250 in fees over the years instead.
So my complaint is not about the money but about the phony explanations. And whether you agree with that or not, it does in fact scare away a lot of customers who perceive it as sneaky.
You could use the early models as just digital VCRs without the service, but that was changed quite a while ago. A Tivo without an active subscription will revert to "Boat Anchor Mode" .
And even for the early models, you have to request to download an old version of the software to keep using it like this.
So you actually are paying a subscription to record TV.
I own 2 Tivos and 200 shares. I love the product as much as anyone. But I think the subscription pricing policy is scaring away at least half the potential customer base. They see it as a sham, and to some extent it is.
The new Firewire is signal compatible, but it has a new plug. So you need adapters to plug old cables into the new PowerBooks.
Haven't heard of why they did this, but I guess they had a reason. Hopefully a good one.
In Sweden, and I'm sure also Norway, either side can appeal a verdict to a higher court. And then appeal that to the supreme court, but they only take special ly significant cases.
But there is no double jeopardy in the sense that they can't start a new trial from scratch once you've been acquitted.
In that case they could also check who zaps through the commercials on the Tivo, and just don't count them for the ratings.
If I ran a network or was a customer of one, I would definitely want that info.
This sounds a lot more like new car models than species evolution.
Cars usually get bigger, come in more colors, and have more chrome with each new model year, until the model is retired after 10 years.
I'm not forgetting that companies charge for upgrades. I even mentioned that you usually pay for them.
My point was that you compared prices between brand new programs and upgrades, and found that the upgrades are cheaper. Of course they are! That is not a fair comparision.
The users who are expected to pay for this already have the functionality to burn DVDs etc. The $50 is for whatever incremental upgrades the new releases contain.
Now, we did get those for free, which as you say is a very good price. But it also makes it a pretty nasty price increase to charge $50 for a simple upgrade. Upgrades are normally 20% or so of the original price, I think/guess. Not infinite billion % higher!!
As you say, we don't know what the upgrades are yet. Maybe it is phenomenally great stuff. Or it may be just a few new marginal features and bug fixes it's a whole other. The level of outrage will have to be adjusted accordingly.
Yeah, I understand the idea, I just don't share it. I hope people do well wherever they are and whatever nation they're citizens of. I give my friends preferiential, but beyond that, I don't know why I should favor some fellow national I've never met over a foreigner I've never met. Were I to choose whose quality of life to improve, I would chose whoever I thought needed or deserved it most, regardless.
And in this instance when some of the highest paid groups in the richest nation in history are crying over losing some fraction of their wealth to the much much poorer, I just find it appaingly greedy.
Not that my fellow Swedes are any better at these things even though they talk more about it. It's the same mentality there and here. And I oppose it on both sides.
If you think H1Bs are given a preferential treatment over Americans you are very mistaken. Being on H1B is a fairly big handicap when job hunting. I know, I've done it several times. Half the companies won't even talk to you.
And yeah, people will complain over America, justly and unjustly. You're the ruler of the planet, the richest and most powerful nation in history. Complaints from the less fortunate comes with the territory. Just try to not whine about it, it really doesn't look good from the outside.
As one of those Silicon Valley H1Bs, that is precisely what I have seen over 5 years.
I guess there has to be some reality behind all the stories that there is an other H1B market out there that runs Indian programmer sweatshops of some kind, but I haven't seen any of it.
Also, I'm sure there are many angry unemployed US engineers who think they are the smartest thing since Einstein, but are really just one of those intolerably arrogant and combative nerds (of any nationality) that we have all had the misfortune to work with. Blaming H1Bs must be very natural to them when they fume their days away on Slashdot, since there can obviously not be anything wrong with themselves.
You're right in a way. Shortages only occur in planned economies. On a free market there are no surpluses or shortages, there are only price changes.
So there is of course no shortage of any kind of employee in the US, at least to the extent that the labor market is free.
OTOH, the labor market can't be said to be really free unless it is open to everyone regardless of nationality.
The scenario (which I think is mostly bogus, but that's an other issue) only lowers the overall standard of living if you don't include the foreigner, who gets a highly increased standard, in your calculations.
Or in other words it is based on the idea that non americans aren't people.
That used to be a problem, but 1-2 years ago they changed it so you can start working for a new company 2 weeks after you quit the old one. The visa still takes 3-6 months to process, but you can work while they process it.
In theory they could deny the visa and you get deported after those months, but since you already have one H1B, it would take a lot for them to deny you a new one, since you are the same person with the same credentials.
I'm an H1B since 5 years, and I have never seen those lower wages everyone's going on about. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but in the companies I and my friends have been at H1Bs are treated just like everyone else.
The best way to learn what the ramifications are has to be to go ahead and change the weather. If we don't like what happens, we can just change it back.
No need to make this more complicated than it is.
I agree that surfing slashdot is a poor substitute for food, shelter and medical care.
But consider that access to the net can help with many of the basic things. You may not have a doctor, but you can find medical info on the web. You can learn new and better ways to grow food and build shelter rather than whatever your grandfather was taught by his grandfather.
And not least, by knowing about what goes on in the world, you can become a better informed citizen and less of a clueless and easily manipulated pawn of whoever is in charge.
My DirecTivo can record PPV movies in perfect quality today, and I'm allowed to store it for as long as I please.
This is clearly a feature intended by DirecTV and Tivo to be there, not a technical accident.
And if this didn't work, I would watch far fewer PPV movies. Once you've gone Tivo, it's very hard to go back to being forced to watch something in one sitting at a specific time.
On DVD the MOVIE deteriorates YOU!!
I believe they still offer the old service on old systems that were sold under the premisse that they could be used without subscription. If you call Tivo support they can probably activate that, or you could just wait for it to download the newer software.
I have the DirecTivo, which is exactly the tuner you describe. Except it has two tuners. And it stores the exact signal coming from the satellite, so you get perfect quality.
Last year or so they have stopped selling that feature. Now you have to sign up, or the Tivo won't do anything.
Perhaps. Even so, most flights are outside the US, and could still use this device.
"I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam"
My flat earth argument wasn't meant to say that the round earth arguments are complicated, but rather that things aren't always the way they seem to the casual or naive observer. That even applies when it both seems really obviously true and/or everyone you know also thinks so. Maybe quantum physics or relativity would have been better examples, even though I remember my bewilderment when first confronted with the round earth theory at age 5 or so.
The most similar example to the free market example is evolution. In both cases highly organized and ingenious systems develop from much simpler roots, with no planning or thinking force behind it. "Spontaneous order" just doesn't make sense to the casual observer, and as we know both many people refuse to accept both the evolution and free market concepts.
I like your professors normal language ambition. Too many people don't really understand what they're learning, they just repeat phrases and formulas. But as you say, some complex sounding things actually are both complex and counter intuitive. And I claim that this is one of them.
There is a lot of relative poverty in the US, but I'd say that the "wealthiest country on earth" label is very real for 60-80% of the population. And especially so for the software engineers this discussion is about, many of whom make $100K or more per year. If they/we have been knocked down a bit earnings wise, that is a setback for the few rich, not the poor masses.
As to your final comment about morality. If you don't care about morals, there are several far more profitable careers than software engineering that are open to you.
I meant it is cheaper to produce. How that propagates through the black magic that is software pricing, I'm not smart enough to figure out. Especially since we had the whole dot.com bubble bitchslapping the sector back and forth during the same time. Aside from pricing, it could be higher quality, more features or simply higher profits for the makers.
I know the higher profits part annoys a lot of people, but those things are only temporary. If it keeps up, the high profitability will attract more players, leading to greater competition and lower profits.
If you think about the majority of software projects that do not result in a software product on the shelfs, but are in house developments it gets a bit clearer.
The notion that buying from a cheaper foreign supplier is good for the buyer but bad for the country is a very common fallacy.
It's one of those things that seem self evident on the face of it, and requires a long and fairly complicated argument to dispel. A bit like how the earth obviously is flat - just look out the window!
The argument for free trade can be found in most elementary economics texts, and I'm not going to repeat it here. Search for "comparative advantage", and you should find a zillion examples.
Of course this example of free trade is probably not good for US programmers, even though the lowered software development costs are good for the US as a whole. That's of course true of any industry exposed to international competition. But the sum of all the effects of competition to each individual industry is very good for everyone, and and one of the main causes that the US is the wealthiest country on earth.
Personally I've programmed for 15+ years, and am doing fine. A few years ago anyone who had seen a computer on a post card could get hired as a "programmer". I'm glad those days are gone, as now I only get to work with skilled professionals.
I'm sure they are wondering about the same questions. And the only way to really find out is to go ahead and test it. This and many other versions of online ads. It may work, or it may fail. Eventually they will bump into a model that works pretty well for everybody.
And that day Slashdot will be full of posts from people who had known all along that that was obviously the way to do it...