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'DVD Jon' Acquitted On All Counts in DeCSS Case

benh57 writes "Jon Johansen, the author of DeCSS, has been acquitted on all charges by the Norwegian Supreme Court.' Johansen and his defense attorney Halvor Manshaus won on all counts, with the Oslo court ruling that Johansen did nothing wrong when he helped cracked the code on a DVD that was his own personal property.'" Here's Aftenposten's story, in English. Read on below for some more links, and please post others in the comments. Update: 01/07 14:02 GMT by T : Reader Torstein Grotnes writes with a correction: The court which cleared Johansen is not Norway's Supreme Court, but rather "the 'tingrett' which is two steps below 'supreme court' level."

Here's John Leyden's story at the Register about the ruling.

LarsBT links to this Reuters newsflash and points out that since Johansen's arrest, "Norway has introduced legislation similar to the European Unions directive on copyright [pdf], making it illegal to circumvent any copyright protection - making it highly unlikely that he would be found not guilty under these new rules."

An anonymous reader writes with some background (or do a search on Slashdot for DeCSS ;)): "Read the DVD-Jon lawsuit story here and here" and notes that "'the prosecution decided to charge Johansen with a data break-in, rather than handle the matter as a copyright case.' The court said that DeCSS could be used both legally and illegally and referred to similar cases outside the computing industry. The court said it was difficult to conclude on Johansen's intentions with DeCSS, but there was no conclusive evidence."

400 comments

  1. Hip Hip . . . by Gabrill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hooray!

    --
    Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
    1. Re:Hip Hip . . . by dunkelfalke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      absolutely.

      this could make me to believe in justice again :-)

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:Hip Hip . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hop Hop.. I'm female. I front with rhymes, not hyme(n)s.

    3. Re:Hip Hip . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... as long as you live in Norway...

    4. Re:Hip Hip . . . by jofizz · · Score: 1
      Indeed,
      My favourite quote...(from the CNN story)
      Johansen said after the ruling that he would celebrate by "watching DVD films on unlicensed players."

      Excellent!

      --
      There is no sig.
  2. What a surprise! by unterderbrucke · · Score: 4, Funny

    The judge realized that information wanted to be free!

    1. Re:What a surprise! by Kierthos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the judge realized the rules of evidence.

      Okay, I have no idea exactly how or if the Norweigan courts rule on evidence, but in the U.S. courts, in criminal trials, it's "beyond a shadow of doubt". If there wasn't enough evidence to rule in favour of guilt, then by law, he is innocent.

      Kierthos

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    2. Re:What a surprise! by Anarchofascist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ".. in the U.S. courts, in criminal trials, it's "beyond a shadow of doubt". If there wasn't enough evidence to rule in favour of guilt, then by law, he is innocent."

      The judges (according the the Aftenpost article) went one step further than that and said there was "no evidence" to convict. This implies (to my untrained legal eye, which nonetheless is legally bound under pain of imprisonment to obey every single law in the land, every E.U. directive, and every libel law in Australia, because ignorance of the law is no excuse) that none of the evidence provided by the prosecution would lead the judges to convict Jon.

      One small step forward for justice. That feels like such a hollow thing to say when thousands have disappeared from US streets to be held secretly (and legally) in internment camps.

      --
      Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
    3. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dickhead. Information has no will of it's own PEOPLE want information to be freely availible.

    4. Re:What a surprise! by Shadowlion · · Score: 0, Troll

      That feels like such a hollow thing to say when thousands have disappeared from US streets to be held secretly (and legally) in internment camps.

      Yes, thousands of... illegal aliens, who have no right being in this country in the first place. If you want to get into the US, you do it legally -- you fill out the proper visa forms, you get the approval of the INS, and you immigrate according to the legal structure. Can't afford it? Government won't let you? Tough cookies.

    5. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Check your history, Shadowlion. The U. S. government interned thousands of American citizens in WWII, simply because they were of Japanese descent. These Americans were deprived of their freedom and property without due process, and they usually went to internment camps like Manzanar without resistence.

      Try learning something before you parrot the government propaganda you so readily lap up, you f*cking ignorant bigoted piece of sh*t.

    6. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that.

      - She ruled that the creation AND distribution of DeCSS was legal

      - He supposedly had some pirated software but he was not judged on this due to relevance issues or something.

    7. Re:What a surprise! by Anarchofascist · · Score: 2

      "Yes, thousands of... illegal aliens, who have no right being in this country in the first place."

      But... we'll never know, will we, because the hearings checking to see if they are illegal are held in secret. Do you know what "justice must be seen to be done" actually means? Are these just words to you?

      I didn't expect to get this sort of reply on Slashdot. I feel like I've turned over a rock and found my very own Lesser Spotted American Blinkered Bushbaby.

      --
      Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
    8. Re:What a surprise! by Shadowlion · · Score: 1

      But... we'll never know, will we, because the hearings checking to see if they are illegal are held in secret. Do you know what "justice must be seen to be done" actually means? Are these just words to you?

      Do you really think that the media wouldn't be ALL OVER an instance where the government has taken a legitimate citizen? Do you really think the media wouldn't be putting that out as the first newscast, the front page, top billing? Do you really think that person's relatives would keep silent if Joe Blow, US Citizen, was taken by federal agents in the middle of the night?

      I didn't expect to get this sort of reply on Slashdot. I feel like I've turned over a rock and found my very own Lesser Spotted American Blinkered Bushbaby.

      "This sort of reply"? What, somebody who is opposed to the thousands of illegal immigrants who stream into this country every day -- and who is actually glad something is being done about it?

    9. Re:What a surprise! by rebbie · · Score: 5, Informative
      What about the case of Yasser Esam Hamdi a U.S. Citizen born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana now being held in Guantanimo. He certainly is a "legitimate citizen." Nobody is questioning that fact....

      • "The Pentagon source said Hamdi's status as a U.S. citizen will not affect the government's ability to try him as a "battlefield detainee" -- rather than trying him in civilian courts, like Walker Lindh."

      It seems to me that the U.S. government is doing what it wants to do and is making the rules up as it goes along. And yes -- the "media" is buying this and regurgitating just what it's being fed.

      --
      On a clear disk you can seek forever
    10. Re:What a surprise! by October_30th · · Score: 2, Informative
      Do you really think that the media wouldn't be ALL OVER an instance where the government has taken a legitimate citizen?

      Not really.

      WASHINGTON - The legal controversy fomented by the indefinite detention of two American citizens in military prisons is being very closely watched - and loudly debated - as their cases go through the judicial appeals process.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    11. Re:What a surprise! by jebell · · Score: 2, Informative

      This implies (to my untrained legal eye, which nonetheless is legally bound under pain of imprisonment to obey every single law in the land, every E.U. directive, and every libel law in Australia, because ignorance of the law is no excuse) that none of the evidence provided by the prosecution would lead the judges to convict Jon. This is correct. I was a state prosecutor in Florida. I don't know Norwegian law, but in the United States, after the prosecution has presented all its evidence (and sometimes after the defense is presented, too), the defense may make a "Motion for a Judgement of Acquittal" or similar motion. Simply put, the defense is asking the judge to rule that the prosecution hasn't proved the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. This is to prevent the jury from deciding a case where the proseuction hasn't proven a crime under the law, even if the defendant's behavior offended the sensibilities of the jury.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    12. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Do you really think that the media wouldn't be ALL OVER an instance where the government has taken a legitimate citizen?

      I know of at least one case where your gov has done that and I live on the other side of the world. Open your eyes silly american sheepboy :p
    13. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2

      Excuse me but when you point a gun at americans with a forign army (or militia) you kind of waive that whole citizenship thing. He is lucky he is not on trial for treason..

      --
    14. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2, Flamebait
      All governments have done something this bad or worse. Hell the Brits tried to starve all the Irish, the Vikings raped and pilliged the Brits on over in Asia one needs only to point out what Japan did to china (and for that matter what China now does to its own).

      The American Government officially apoligised and paid restitution to the domestic victoms of ww2. While a very darm moment in history we have done more to keep it in our national mind than the euros have their disgusting treatment of lessernations.

      --
    15. Re:What a surprise! by tubs · · Score: 1

      Yea, It doesn't matter what we do, because you other guys have done worse anyway.

      --

      try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, then you die

    16. Re:What a surprise! by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      He was taken as a POW.

      This is considerably different than being taken off some American street while merely minding one's own business.

      Talk about dishonest comparisons...

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    17. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Vikings had a government?

      Dude, you're stupid.

    18. Re:What a surprise! by quax · · Score: 2, Informative

      You should read up on the case. None of the detainees whether US citizen or not are held as POW.

      The current administration invented the interesting term "unlawful combatants". A term that has no meaning and is not governed by any international human right standards nor treaties.

      A POW is protected by the Geneva Convention. This guarantees that he/she will be treated in a decent way and are not allowed to be questioned and or further prosecuted by the enemy force that holds him or her.

      That the US administration states to fight a war yet, denies POW status to enemy combatants is simply scandalous. Just because you fight against an enemy who does not have any respect for human right standards does not mean that you should feel free to abandon those standards yourself.

      By doing this the US also sets a precarious precedent. If the US forgoes international law it will encourage other nations to do the same.

      The Geneva convention used to be very powerful even Nazi Germany pretty much obeyed it. In recent history it protected the GIs that were taken by Milsovic's Yugoslavian army in the wake of the war on Serbia. The jeopardizing of the Geneva convention exposes a frightening foolishness on part of the current administration (I hope foolishness is all there is to it).

    19. Re:What a surprise! by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anarchofascist wrote:

      > One small step forward for justice. That feels
      > like such a hollow thing to say when thousands
      > have disappeared from US streets to be held
      > secretly (and legally) in internment camps.

      It's not hollow. Not to the young man who had three years of his life stolen from him because he wanted to play a DVD. Now, barring an appeal by the prosecution, he has that life back again.

      Today is a victory for justice. Rejoice, and don't feel guilty about rejoicing. Without the celebration of victories, how can we possibly find the heart to continue to fight all these injustices? We would give up hope, and that would help no one.

      Fight on, and don't give up hope. The great victory of Justice, Liberty, and Peace may be closer than you think.

      "Lightning shines on wavey beach, and all clouds are made right:
      Happiness Appears!"
      From the song "Infanto no Musume" in the Japanese version of "Mothra" (1961).

    20. Re:What a surprise! by Helge+Hafting · · Score: 1

      The nazis obeyed the Geneva convention? Perhaps for some POWS, certainly not all. Eastern european POWs fared no better than the jews...

    21. Re:What a surprise! by EllisDees · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Do you really think that the media wouldn't be ALL OVER an instance where the government has taken a legitimate citizen?

      Have you heard this one?

      "Five months later, the alleged proprietor of a small-time document mill is at the center of what appears to be the only criminal case of its kind in the United States since the Sept. 11 attacks -- one in which secret evidence has been presented against the defendant. Atriss remains in jail, now on $500,000 bond -- an amount consistent with a murder charge -- but prosecutors will not say why he poses such a serious risk or give him a chance to respond."

      This is going too far. Our government is pissing all over the constitution. We are *not* at war until congress makes a declaration of war, and even then, US citizens have the right to see the evidence that is being used against them. I hope every one of you dumbasses who voted for the dumbass currently in charge is happy with the dictatorship that's forming right before your eyes.

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
    22. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just FYI: It's "beyond a reasonable doubt", not "a shadow of a doubt".

    23. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The media ISN'T all over it but it IS happening. After all... it's currently a crime to speak out against Bush baby right now. Go out somewhere within earshot of the feds and say something like "George Bush is an idiot and can lick my puckered anus!" and see how fast you wind up in a secret tribunal as an "illegal immigrant". Open your fucking eyes jackass. People like you are making the US a very scary place indeed.

    24. Re:What a surprise! by rking · · Score: 1

      He was taken as a POW.

      That statement shows a frightening lack of awareness. I'd expect someone who's supporting the position to at least know that these people are definitely not being held as POWs.

    25. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats (partly) because stalin never signed the Geneva convention, which gave the nazis an excuse not to apply its rules to Soviet POWs

    26. Re:What a surprise! by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 2

      In order for someone to be a prisoner of war there has to be a war. In order for a state of war to exist there must be at least TWO internationally recognized nations which are at war. The closest we got to this was with Taliban governement of Afganistan where all of three or four countries (the U.S. was not one of them) recognized the Taliban as the legitimate governement of the country. (Note: This is why diplomatic recognition of a government is significant.)

      Given that there was no internationally recognized government in Afganistan, any force or person opposing coalition forces could (and should) be considered "unlawful combatants". As to any U.S. citizen amoung those opposing coalition forces, they should be glad they were not executed for treason. Unfortunately, we will probably feed them and house them at Guantanamo Bay until we turn them loose to do other mischief (including getting a lawyer and filing suit).

      So this isn't scandalous. Those nations that abide by the Geneva convention have nothing to fear and everything to gain by continuing to abide by it with regard to prisoners of war. Those people who privately make war against another country now know that they can not hide behind the rights that that same country gives to its citizens and they can not expect even to be treated as prisoners of war. They are unlawful combatants.

      War is a condition between nations; not between an individual and a nation. When an *individual* attacks a nation (and, hopefully, especially anyone who attacks the U.S.), the individual can expect the full power of that nation to be brought against them. This is the most basic reason for the existence of the nation state: to protect its citizens from attack regardless of whether the attack comes from another nation or an individual or group. Attacks by other nations are acts of war; attacks by individuals are criminal acts and it is at the discretion of the attacked country which IF ANY of the rights it grants its citizens in a criminal case to grant to the individual attackers.

      --
      They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
      Ben
    27. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither did bin Laden sign the Geneva convention, which gives the current US administration the same excuse. So at least Bush isn't worse than Hitler.

    28. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which fucking moron gave you +1, Interesting? Hope I catch this on meta-moderation.

    29. Re:What a surprise! by fruity1983 · · Score: 1

      Oh, you gave them an official apology. How comforting for them when they recieved only a small fraction of the wealth you stole from them at the beginning of the war.

      It's nice to know that in 20 years, you will free the arabs you have locked away (which, ironically enough, protects them from the massive surge of anti-Arab hate crimes which has consumed America), and give them a 'formal apology,' and all will be good once again.

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    30. Re:What a surprise! by fruity1983 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you really think that the media wouldn't be ALL OVER an instance where the government has taken a legitimate citizen?

      I dont, actually. The past year and a bit has seen a rise of over 1400% in anti-Arab hate crimes, 4000 dead afghani civilians, numerous ties drawn between Bush and the bin Laden family (and exemptions given to them, such as leaving the country on Sept. 12 & 13, 2001), many thousands of arrests of arab males with families (all the hijackers and other known terrorists had none here), and so on.

      Few have recieved anything more than a passing mention in the little scroll bar at the bottom of your TV.

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    31. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2
      The point is moron that every people have shit on another people. Is it right? no not even close and it is something which is taught in public shools in the US so we do not forget.

      I love when euros (or self hating americans jump up on a soap box and decry us as evil compared to the peace loving euros, even though American has been freaking loving to the world in our time of power compared to what the europian powers did to the world in theirs.

      --
    32. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2
      Did I say that? no I said check the plank in your eye before checking the sliver in ours. The europians raped pilliged and killed each other for years and when they were strong enough they did it to the world. What the americans did was wrong and we are taught in school so we dont forget. The only europian nation with a similar sence of shame is Germany the rest really believe they are better than the rest of the world.

      Yea lets starve the Irish, take the lands of the Africans, plant a flag in indai and call it ours, lets take priceless cultural history away from people and bring it back where it will be appreciated.

      --
    33. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2
      The 'arabs' (not all of them are arabs but why should facts bother you) were captured on the field of battle by US and Canadian forces which is totally unlike the Japanese in ww2 who were taken from their homes in the US with no cause.

      If the govt tried today to go into Arab-American homes and put them in a prison camp the americna people would riot in the street. We have a generation who has learned af our shameful actions in the 40's and will not allow it again.

      --
    34. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2

      Oh and btw a formal apology is more than any europian country has done for someone under their boot (England to Ireland), (Spain, to central America), (France to Vietnam, Laos, & Kampuchia), (Italians to Ethopia), (Russia to Afganistan), (Dutch to African nations under their relm), ....

      --
    35. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2

      One more thing, can I have a source for you 'massive' anti-arab hate crimes? There may be one or two idiots out there but I must say that coming from an environment where many arabs live and work I dont see it.

      --
    36. Re:What a surprise! by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      No it doesn't. All it shows is a willingness to give these civilians more credit than they deserve. That was obviously a big mistake in this forum.

      If they were being treated consistent with the actions of the US at the time (and the Geneva convention), they could have all been summarily shot.

      People who like whine about the rights of those caught commiting treason on foriegn soil should keep that in mind.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    37. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, we learned our lesson. You, on the other hand, are still doing whatever you want all over the World.

      Still wondering what caused 9/11, eh?

    38. Re:What a surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right... So Bush is only as bad as Hitler.

    39. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2
      You did not learn squat, the world wars weakend the only powers left (the other colonial powers were weakend by internal struggles with other powers). Just because you bitchslapped eachother around so your no longer strong does not make you any more kind.

      As far as us doing what ever we want all over the world does that include defending wester europe from 1950-1990? does that include giveing more food aid to the world than any other nation?the europians took food away from people (ireland/india) we give it to them. we are far from perfect but a hell of alot better a global power than any euro nation was.

      --
    40. Re:What a surprise! by fruity1983 · · Score: 1

      HRW reports 17 fold increase, I had previously read 14 fold from alternet.org.

      Two sources, almost same results.

      http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/11/usahate.htm

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    41. Re:What a surprise! by fruity1983 · · Score: 1

      We are talking about numerous Arab people picked off of American streets and out of American homes in the wake of Sept 11, not those Arabs caught in Afghanistan/etc.

      At least, I thought we were.

      Want sources? Do a google for it. Any alternative news portal can point you in the right direction.

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    42. Re:What a surprise! by fruity1983 · · Score: 1

      This is not about Europe. This is about America, and what is happening in America.

      Besides, I am sure the Europeans you listed have their own counterparts to myself hounding them for their indifference over such matters.

      I never understood the "they did it too" excuse. Imagine if other countries started dropping nuclear missiles, and said "well, America did it."

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    43. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2
      1) how pitiful to compare what a vast minority of arab americans experienced to what the Japanese did in ww2.

      2) Its not my job to go out and find the source for someone elses accusation, the burden of proof is on them.

      3) 9 out of 10 times 'alternative' media such as indymedia are pathetic transparent and two faced organisatgions with their own aganda. THey are mostly not news sites so much as anti-something sites.

      --
    44. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2

      so two sites with differnt numbers to support their agenda (ie two sites which are anti american in to their core cant even agree which one (if either) of them are right?). The acts that do occur (im not ignorent enough to believe there are not cases) are persued and punished, did you bother to see what is done in these?

      --
    45. Re:What a surprise! by N3WBI3 · · Score: 2

      THe reason to look at the euros is for perspective you nitwit. here we had 3000 americans killed for no reason and the worse we did at home (and it was wrong) was detain less than 500 people for less than one month. As always self hating or 'im better than you' americans sieze the chance to slam the US as a whole.

      --
  3. Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fight for freedom - good job. The record companies are too powerful already, and they want more and more power (and have the money to buy politicians). Good to see other countries are not like the US.

    1. Re:Yay! by martyn+s · · Score: 1

      Wait, how do the record companies have anything to do with this case?

  4. Norway by muyuubyou · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Thank God this guys is norwegian and didn't drop by the USA.

    I wonder what happened if he was american

    Sklyarov anyone?

    1. Re:Norway by Floyd+Turbo · · Score: 2

      Sklyarov got acquitted, too. So on that score, the US and Norway are equal.

    2. Re:Norway by skahshah · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sklyarov never got acquitted. He made a deal. Everybody knows what it was. Not exactly the same thing.

    3. Re:Norway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I'm impressed by are the possible effects this WILL have on major IP holders IN the usa

      heh. thought Apple and Microsoft didn't have much longer to last already, this is just going to make it all the shorter.

    4. Re:Norway by macdaddy357 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Elcomsoft eventually was acquitted. Nothing has been done to compensate Dmitry Sklyarov for the time he spent behind bars. Adobe's gross assets, plus 10% would be a good start.

      --
      How ya like dat?
    5. Re:Norway by videodriverguy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sklyarov wasn't acquitted - he agreed to be a witness for the prosecution in return for immunity. That is a BIG difference.

      His company was acquitted, not him. Even if they were, he still spent a certain amount of time in a US jail, away from his family. He will never receive compensation for that time.

      So, it seems that the USA and Norway are not equal. Especially as I don't remember a case where Norway attempted to use it's laws against someone not even in the country.

    6. Re:Norway by SLi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thank God this guys is norwegian and didn't drop by the USA.

      Actually he did. He even testified at a New York court. See e.g. this press release.

    7. Re:Norway by Floyd+Turbo · · Score: 2

      Fine, if you want to pick nits, Sklyarov's employer, Elcomsoft got acquitted. It's essentially the same result, regardless of the deal Sklyarov himself cut.

    8. Re:Norway by Floyd+Turbo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I certainly agree that Adobe should pay, and pay heavily, for the harm they did to Sklyarov and Elcomsoft.

      The same should apply to the harm that the MPAA did to Johansen.

    9. Re:Norway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fair use is fair use.
      Why the DVD makers didn't want their products being used by people who actually paid for them is beyond me. I've been following this since the beginning, and I still think it's ridiculous! I'm glad the judge had some common sense.

    10. Re:Norway by cluke · · Score: 2

      The DVD makers do, sure. Hence all the multi-region 'hacks'. It's the movie producers that want to control this.

    11. Re:Norway by santaniello · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't know. The grass is always greener on the other side. Norway is a monarchy where you can only give your child a name from an "approved" list and it is currently a topic of discussion as to whether freedom of speech extends to being allowed to say bad things about different racial groups in public. And brutally murdering someone will get you MAYBE 15 years with your own cell, cable-TV and a private room for when your significant other visits to do the nasty. USA and Norway is apples and oranges. Who knows what would have happened were he American.

    12. Re:Norway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the DVD makers didn't want their products being used by people who actually paid for them is beyond me.

      It's not that they don't want them used. It's that they don't want them used fairly. They would prefer you not be able to do anything with your DVD except put in a DVD player, watch it, and buy a new one when your current copy gets scratched.

      They don't want people taking high-quality screenshots. They don't want people making their own "highlights" DVDs from commercial releases or sampling. They don't want people making multimedia reports that include film clips. They don't want people making fan dubs or fan subs. They don't want people converting their DVDs to other formats (witness the "problems" with mp3 players like Rio-- I get to play music on the device without paying for it again). At least that's my take.

    13. Re:Norway by Mitreya · · Score: 2
      Elcomsoft eventually was acquitted. Nothing has been done to compensate Dmitry Sklyarov for the time he spent behind bars.

      EXACTLY! I think many people have absolutely missed the point! Dmitriy Sklyarov and Elcomsoft DID NOT WIN the trial. All they did was to AVOID PUNISHMENT in various ways. Dmitriy cut a deal and was able to do so only thanks to widespread public support and to a testimony he was forced to produce. Elcomsoft was acquited mostly 'cause they did not understand the implication of DMCA. As you mentioned, Dmitryi was not compensated and the Elcomsoft product was declared ILLEGAL. I would not call this a victory...

    14. Re:Norway by Brummund · · Score: 1
      Well, the laws regarding names are there to protect the children, and thank God for that. I guess you haven't seen the outrageous names people are trying to give their children...


      As for racist speech, the supreme court (I think it was) just decided that the some infamous neonazi was in his full rights when he stated that jews and immigrants where raping people on daily basis here. If that's not saying a "bad thing" about a racial group, I'm really curious to know what you think is "bad things about different racial groups in public."


      As for the laws and prison sentences, "lifetime" in Norway is 21 years, with the probability for an undefinite time being "detained" after that. (if you're a raving lunatic with an appetite for elder women or similar, that probably applies to you.)


      Also, the monarchy has absolutely no power what-so-ever.


      Norway isn't perfect, but it's good.

    15. Re:Norway by hkmwbz · · Score: 2
      Whoa! Whoever gave this guy a +1 moderation?
      "you can only give your child a name from an "approved" list"
      Actually, there is a list to protect children so they don't get some of the most insane names parents are stupid enough to want to give them.

      You are giving the impression that there's a tiny list of maybe 100 names or so, but this is not the case.

      "and it is currently a topic of discussion as to whether freedom of speech extends to being allowed to say bad things about different racial groups in public"
      Actually, the discussion is whether or not one should accept it when someone encourages others to slaughter down minority groups. YMMV.

      Moderators, please be careful with your +1 moderations, especially when someone intentionally writes his post like this, to mislead people who know nothing about Norway.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    16. Re:Norway by egreB · · Score: 2

      About the list of names: There's no list of names you choose from when you name your children. However, there is a list of names you're not allowed to call them. This would include (the norwgeian) words like "fuck" and "dick." People are actually trying to name their kids stuff like that. If you read norwegian, there's info about it on The Norwegian Language Council web pages. Limited english version here.

    17. Re:Norway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does he still have a job?

  5. read the entire verdict here by rokka · · Score: 5, Informative

    all in norweigian... http://www.digi.no/dtno.nsf/pub/md20030107114651_q iz_14357518

    --
    I could be wrong. I'm always wrong...
    1. Re:read the entire verdict here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This page does not even pretend to contain a verdict.

    2. Re:read the entire verdict here by tsvk · · Score: 2, Informative

      That page is not the verdict, but contains a link to it.

      The actual URL is http://www.domstol.no/archive/Oslotingrett/Nye%20a vgjorelser/DVD-jon.doc.

      Don't you just hate it when official documents are made public in M$Word?

    3. Re:read the entire verdict here by ThinkingGuy · · Score: 1

      Well, at least soon Office will support both Norweigan languages :)

  6. Very nice... by stikves · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet, I still wonder if this conclusion can be used against DMCA itself.

    1. Re:Very nice... by DaBj · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No it can't.

      Jon was prosecuted in a Norwegian court, under Norwegian law. Believe it or not, in countries like that consumers still have rights. (And judges has brains).

      This won't even affect the EU version of DMCA either, since Norway isn't a member of the EU.

      --
      "GNU's not Unix....it's Linux" / Kami "kokamomi" Petersen
    2. Re:Very nice... by eXtro · · Score: 1

      Probably not, the DMCA is an American law and this is a decision made in Norwegian courts. It might influence a judge, but it sets no precedence. Large donations speak louder than foreign court cases.

    3. Re:Very nice... by JanneM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. DMCA is an american law. He was tried, and acquitted in a norwegian court, according to norwegian law. Other than in extraordinary circumstances you do not take precedent from another country's legal system.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    4. Re:Very nice... by sqlrob · · Score: 2
      Believe it or not, in countries like that consumers still have rights. (And judges has brains).

      They do?

      From the /. article: "Norway has introduced legislation similar to the European Unions directive on copyright [pdf], making it illegal to circumvent any copyright protection - making it highly unlikely that he would be found not guilty under these new rules."

    5. Re:Very nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Norway is not a part of the EU. Just EØS which is the business part off the EU. We get ALL the benefits without even being an EU member ;)

      And is there a difference between looking at the contents (code) on a DVD and opening your VCR to study the cercuits? They are both "copyrighted".... just a thougt.

    6. Re:Very nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Norway is not a EU member, but at the same time IS an EEC member...
      that basically means that we have to apply a lot of the EU laws, but don't have anything to say in the making of them...

    7. Re:Very nice... by sqlrob · · Score: 2
      Norway is not a part of the EU. Just EØS which is the business part off the EU. We get ALL the benefits without even being an EU member ;)

      Try reading it again... "Norway has introduced legislation similar to the European Unions

      And is there a difference between looking at the contents (code) on a DVD and opening your VCR to study the cercuits? They are both "copyrighted".... just a thougt.

      Good question. Are circuit boards copyright? Patented, possibly, but copyright?
      Personally, I don't have any problem with looking at one or the other, or using any player you damn well please to play a DVD, MPAA approved or not. Unfortunately, that isn't the way Valenti and cronies see things, and they are trying way too much to get governments to give that force of law.

    8. Re:Very nice... by Tar-Palantir · · Score: 1

      How could a verdict in a Norwegian court affect a United States law?

    9. Re:Very nice... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2
      Good question. Are circuit boards copyright?

      I believe the actual trace layout pattern is copyrightable, so you can't make a mask from a photo of the board and crank out your own. OTOH, you can reverse engineer the netlist and use it to create your own logically identical PCB with your own layout pattern.

    10. Re:Very nice... by catman · · Score: 1

      Try reading it again... "Norway has introduced legislation similar to the European Unions

      Uh, no. It hasnt. Not yet. Denmark has, though.

    11. Re:Very nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try reading it again... "Norway has introduced legislation similar to the European Unions


      No matter how many times one reads it, its still not true. In fact, not even the EU has introduced this legislation yet. It's only been introduced to two EU countries... Denmark and... another one.

      If I remember correctly, the time-limit for accepting this legislation has run out and the question now is wether or not it will be extended.
      Norway may have to adopt this legislation because of its EEC membership, but it has not done so yet.
    12. Re:Very nice... by lahi · · Score: 1

      The other one is Greece.

      Actually, I have an email reply from the Danish Ministry of Culture, which states that the intent of the law is not to impose any restrictions on personal use of copyrighted stuff, so for example circumventing DVD encryption to be able to watch a movie on Linux is legal.
      The reply however also states that, although making copies for personal use remains legal, it is not allowed to circumvent copy protection mechanisms in order to produce such a copy. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me, but all in all I think this is not as bad as it could have been.

      -Lasse

    13. Re:Very nice... by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2

      It might set a precedent about illegally applying US law outside its jurisdiction by communicating to other countries the message that, "Hey, you don't *have* to bend over and take it when the MPAA applies US law to the world - we said "no", and so can you."

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  7. Not supreme court by DeeZee · · Score: 5, Informative

    The ruling came from the norwegian "Tingrett", which is one of the lower courts. Hence, an appeal will almost certainly be made before the two week deadline is up.
    It ain't over till the fat geek burps...

    1. Re:Not supreme court by Fenresulven · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is correct, if the verdict is appealed it will then be decided by the "lagmannsrett" and if it's appealed again it'll end up in the supreme court.

    2. Re:Not supreme court by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 2

      Don't be too certain. The higher courts might reject the appeal, since the argumentation in the ruling is supposed to be pretty decisive and solid. We'll see, though. There are powerful forces in motion, they might be able to somehow convince the court that the appeal should be accepted. Jon's lawyer did a good job, though. He was very low key and right on point, making it hard to argue that the judge was biased (like in the MS case).

      --

      Stop the brainwash

    3. Re:Not supreme court by jez_f · · Score: 1
      an appeal will almost certainly be made
      I am not so sure. It depends on how rabid the MPAA lawyers are.
      This case is proving nothing anymore, there are tonnes of other programs out there that do the same thing. It is not good PR either
      Unfortunaly this is a big loss of face for the MPAA lawyers, they really wanted their pound of flesh and they didn't get it. So if they can convince their bosses that they have a case it may go to appeal
      This case came about becuase the movie industry was terrified that a 'movie napster' could decimate their industry. They were trying to clamp down on everything they thought was a threat.
    4. Re:Not supreme court by rehabdoll · · Score: 1

      According to one of Swedens biggest mainstream newspapers, aftonbladet, it was the prosecutor who dropped the charges. Does this affect the right to appeal from the prosecutors side?

    5. Re:Not supreme court by DaBj · · Score: 2, Informative
      I am not so sure. It depends on how rabid the MPAA lawyers are

      MPAA and it's lawyers have no jurisdiction in Norway (last time I checked).

      It all comes down to what the NORWEGIAN prosecutors standpoint on the issue is. Somehow I seriously doubt that she will bring this any further after the wrist slap from the court saying that there was no evidence at all that he had broken any laws.
      --
      "GNU's not Unix....it's Linux" / Kami "kokamomi" Petersen
    6. Re:Not supreme court by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 2

      There is nothing about this in the Norwegian sources... Seems to me like the Swedish Skymningspress has got the details all wrong again...

    7. Re:Not supreme court by rehabdoll · · Score: 1

      Norway is not america. MPAA (motion picture association of america) has little to say in a country like norway. Atleast in the courts. MPAA lawyers has nothing to do with an appeal. Thats up to norwegean prosecutors.

    8. Re:Not supreme court by Speed+Racer · · Score: 1

      What is this 'movie napster' of which you speak? Your pamphlet intrigues me and I'd like to become a member.

      --
      Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
    9. Re:Not supreme court by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Can an American organisation still prosecute a Norwegian national in a Norwegian court if they committed a crime in Norway that affected them.

    10. Re:Not supreme court by rehabdoll · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not in a criminal case. I guess they can still sue, but thats probably pointless. In countries like Sweden and Norway, you cant sue McDonnalds for 100M$ for spilling hot coffee on yourself :)

      You have to break an Norwegean law to risk being put in jail. US laws has no effect outside the US :)

    11. Re:Not supreme court by TripleA · · Score: 1

      I guess Aftonbladet is just straight off wrong (as usual). Read the Aftenposten article, and you will see what the court came to a verdict.

    12. Re:Not supreme court by lastninja · · Score: 1

      Honestly, you translate Aftonbladet to Skymningspress in Norway? thats sort of cool.

      --
      John Carmack fan, browsing at +5 since 1999.
    13. Re:Not supreme court by arcade · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Not entirely correct, I think (IANAL though). My understanding is that anyone can appeal to lagmannsretten - but one may be rejected if its an obvious case.

      This case is not obvious - and probably will not be rejected if there is an appeal. A thypical 'rejected' case is if some graphitti-punk is caught by the police, and wants to appeal the lower-court ruling claiming "I didn't do it" - when it is obvious that he did.

      This is not such a case.

      --
      "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
    14. Re:Not supreme court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *BUUUUUUUUUUUUUURP*

      stupid lameness filter... someone should fix that

      - cowboy neal

    15. Re:Not supreme court by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Informative

      In countries like Sweden and Norway, you cant sue McDonnalds for 100M$ for spilling hot coffee on yourself :)

      To be fair to the person who did this, she only sued because the coffee was abnormally hot (third degree burns requiring a skin graft). McDonalds knew about the risk. She initally just wanted McDonalds to pay her medical bills. McDonalds refused.

    16. Re:Not supreme court by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · · Score: 2
      So a Norwegian lawyer hired by the MPAA to represent them in Norway is not considered to be an MPAA lawyer?

      How about a Norwegian lawyer who got a large donation from the MPAA just because he was a prosecutor for the state?

      Noone said a MPAA lackey^W lawyer had to be American.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist.
    17. Re:Not supreme court by jez_f · · Score: 1

      I think you can swap movies on Kazza, I don't fileshare. Due to bandwith (or lack of)more than ethics.
      I was speeking more of a hypothetical thing that scared the Movie industry in america right about the time that the RIAA was saying that napster would cause the end of civilsation as we know it (like that would be a bad thing).

    18. Re:Not supreme court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, we don't. After all, we do have a newspaper named Aftenposten.

    19. Re:Not supreme court by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 2

      You're probably right. Sadly, INFOSOC will make this ruling one last hurrah for consumer rights. I'm almost becoming anti-EU over that single issue...

      --

      Stop the brainwash

    20. Re:Not supreme court by Rogerborg · · Score: 2

      US law regarding copyright is _de facto_ global, according to the Berne Convention.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    21. Re:Not supreme court by trezor · · Score: 2, Funny
      • We'll see, though. There are powerful forces in motion

      American industry does not control the Norwegian goverment if anyone should think so. The Norwegian goverment is merely incompetent, but not entirely corrupt.

      I live here, I should know :)

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    22. Re:Not supreme court by jez_f · · Score: 1
      You have to break an Norwegean law to risk being put in jail
      This is what happened (or what they tryed to prove happened). From the artical...
      Norwegian prosecutors, acting largely on a complaint from the powerful American entertainment industry,
      Anyway I think that other posts in this tread mention double jepody, as this is a criminal case and the state lost I don't think the state can appeal. Good.
    23. Re:Not supreme court by Speed+Racer · · Score: 1

      I think you can swap movies on Kazza

      Wow, it's a phony holiday and a P2P filesharing system! Is there anything it can't do?

      --
      Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
    24. Re:Not supreme court by KjetilK · · Score: 2

      Actually, it was the MPA that filed the complaint, not MPAA. MPA is the global organization.

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
    25. Re:Not supreme court by trezor · · Score: 1

      That would be a civil charges, as in suiting people for money. Organisations cant take out criminal charges.

      Criminal charges must be filed to the police, and then the police decides if this is a case worth taking further. Strangely enough that seems to work. You can't pay someone to put someone in prison in Norway.

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    26. Re:Not supreme court by trezor · · Score: 1

      The laywer was made aware of the case. They made a decision to persue it. They work for the norwegian police, not the MPA(A).

      It might seem hard to grasp for Americans that the police merely enforces stupid laws, but that they aren't corrupt bastards. I dunno.

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    27. Re:Not supreme court by trezor · · Score: 1

      Norwegians understand Danish and Swedish quite without problems actually. At least literally. Spoken words can be a bit harsh :)

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    28. Re:Not supreme court by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · · Score: 2
      Correct. And I'd wager that the actions of the MPA were started in motion by the MPAA portion of it's membership. I'd also bet that's the source of a sizable chunk of the MPA's operating revenues.

      Just a hunch.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist.
    29. Re:Not supreme court by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · · Score: 2

      I think I'd start looking for MPAA (or MPA) payola before I dismissed lightly the idea that the prosecutor was bought.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist.
    30. Re:Not supreme court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How come everyone goes mental over the skin graft, but never seems to acknowledge that you have to Darwin-bait to open a container of hot coffee in your lap in the first place?

    31. Re:Not supreme court by Gaijin42 · · Score: 2

      That would be Kwanzaa you dip :)

    32. Re:Not supreme court by Speed+Racer · · Score: 1

      Hey, at least I got you to smile. ;)

      --
      Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
    33. Re:Not supreme court by andfarm · · Score: 1

      Well, read this. Among other things, the coffee was somewhere around 180 or 190 degrees F. Yeow!

      --

      TANSTAAFI: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free iPod.

    34. Re:Not supreme court by egreB · · Score: 2, Offtopic

      How hot is "abnormally" hot? I, for one, like my coffee rather warm. Any drinkable coffee (that is, warmer than about 40 degrees Celsius) is capable of giving you quite interesting skin burns. Any (relativly) hot liqiud that stays on your skin any longer than a few seconds can give you third degree burns. I've seen it. It's not particulary nice, since it involves the fact that the skin is burned away.

      There is, apparently according to McDonalds, always a risk involved drinking coffee. Most people agree that coffee should be hotter than 40 degrees. If you decide to (or accidently) pour coffee over youself, to bad. Your fault. Not McDonalds. They merely sold you the coffee. There is a lot of bad things about McDonalds, but I'm giving them this one.

      Drinking coffee is not among the most dangerous things to do. If you burn yourself on the oven at home, would you sue the manufacturer of the oven? Alomst all things in life involves taking riscs. Have you any idea of how dangerous it is to ride a car? Far more dangerous than airplanes, boats and trains combined. If you need, I can probably look up some information on this.

      There's another reason why this couldn't happen in Norway as well - free medical attention. If you happen to get third degree burns (for example here in Bergen, where the best burn-injury(?) hospital in the northern parts of Europe is situated) an ambulance would get you to the hospital, and you'd get immediate medical care completly free of charge. There wouldn't be any medical bills to pay.

      Now I'll get up and brew a nice cup of hot Java coffee (my favourite). You now, when the coffee is brewed, it's over a hundred degrees warm! Imagine spilling that over yourself! I'd sue somebody.

    35. Re:Not supreme court by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, presumably the court felt that 20 degrees hotter than everyone else was too hot. They made it hotter to save themselves from having to dispose of it more often. It was a cost saving measure. They put their customer at risk to save themselves money.

      The example of the oven - Surely the oven is the same temperature as all the other ovens. If they had poorer insulation on the outside than other manufacturers, then I would expect to have a case.

      Planes are dangerous, but I don't expect them to make them more dangerous to save fuel.

    36. Re:Not supreme court by egreB · · Score: 2

      Coffee is served at different temperatures at different places. Some places probably 20 degrees hotter than others. Depends on the time of purchase. If McDonalds found that keeping the coffee hot would require less disposals, great! They did not put the customer at any more risc than other places (like the cafe called Vågen in Bergen, where the coffee is really hot). Warm coffee is dangerous (to the extent that coffee actually _is_ dangerous) all the same.

      I was refering to the the plates(?) on top of ovens (no idea what they are called in english). If different temperatures is the issue, then it's a good example. They operate at different temperatures with different vendors. We have a really old oven, and the max effect is about 1500W. Newer ovens have plates(?) at a much higher effect, thus making them hotter. The insulation probably varies from vendor to vendor as well. Nobody clear minded in Norway would sue the manufacturer for burns gotten by ovens. Nobody would win anyway.

      Different cars have different security measures, thus making them more or less secure than their competitors. You can't sue one manufacturer for making a car less secure than the other (as long as both parts followed the rules and regulations involved in making cars). Not in Norway, at any rate.

      My point still stands, IMO. If you spill coffee over yourself, it's your own fault. It doesn't matter wether the coffee was kept warmer than everywhere else.

    37. Re:Not supreme court by Happy+go+Lucky · · Score: 1
      I think I'd start looking for MPAA (or MPA) payola before I dismissed lightly the idea that the prosecutor was bought.

      Maybe, maybe not.

      In the US, most prosecutors at the state level are either elected, or are appointed by an elected DA/SA. Campaign contributions MAY be an issue (theoretically, although most DA candidates know that the mere hint of a bad smell will kill their chances.)

      At the Federal level, they're largely Federal civil service in the Justice Department. However, the chief prosecutor in each Federal district, the US Attorney, probably has some political ambitions. One of the jokes among American cops is that a US Attorney is really just someone who wants to be a Senator in ten years. Hints about campaign contributions to come might constitute bribery, but I'd be shocked if nobody from the MPAA had ever toyed with the idea.

      Private prosecution of public offenses is pretty much dead and gone here.

      It's usually illegal for a SA, DA, or US Attorney (or their assistants or deputies) to practice law on their own during their appointments, so that avenue for bribery is closed here.

      And in Norway it might not even matter. AIUI, most countries other than the US appoint prosecutors through their version of Civil Service, rather than electing them or having them directly answerable to an elected official. Funnelling campaign contributions to someone who isn't elected and isn't seeking elective office is pretty much impossible.

      As for straight cash-under-the-table bribes, they're extremely rare in the Western world.

      As for why the prosecutor brought the case...she may not have had a whole lot of choice. Any time a prosecutor is presented with a case, where the facts present do appear to support an allegation of a crime, he'll need to be able to explain himself if he decides against filing. And again, I'm woefully ignorant of Norwegian law and how that part of the canon of ethics is interpreted there.

    38. Re:Not supreme court by frankie · · Score: 2
      How hot is "abnormally" hot? [...] Any drinkable coffee (that is, warmer than about 40 degrees Celsius) is capable of giving you quite interesting skin burns.

      "Abnormally" hot in McDonalds' case was just under 85 Celsius (that's 185 Fahrenheit). I hope you'd agree that just shy of the boiling point is not an appropriate temperature for consumer coffee.

      And this was not a fluke at one McDonalds; this was chain-wide policy. Ultra-hot coffee stays fresh longer -- they could brew a big pot before opening and sell it all day.

      If you need, I can probably look up some information on this.

      You probably should have done that before you posted an ill-informed commentary.

    39. Re:Not supreme court by nivedita · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the fact that 40 degree liquids giving you any sort of burn is laughable. Body temperature is already 37, and 40 degrees can be attained if you have a high fever. The air temperature in many parts of the world is above 40 degrees in summer, and the principal problem is heat-stroke, not getting your skin steamed off.

    40. Re:Not supreme court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I make coffee for myself, I pour 1 l of water and 8 tablespoonfuls of coarse ground coffee in a pan and boil it. That would make the serving temperature close to 100 degrees C.

    41. Re:Not supreme court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Abnormally" hot in McDonalds' case was just under 85 Celsius (that's 185 Fahrenheit). I hope you'd agree that just shy of the boiling point is not an appropriate temperature for consumer coffee.

      That's bullshit.

      At Starbucks (And Barnes & Nobles Cafe's, which serve Starbucks coffee), they heat the MILK in some of their drinks up to 170 or 180 degrees Farenheit, just 10 degrees less that this coffee.

    42. Re:Not supreme court by Mitreya · · Score: 2
      Oh, please... moderators, this is not quite insightful. Have you actually read a description of the incident that was longer than two sentences?

      How hot is "abnormally" hot? I, for one, like my coffee rather warm.

      Abnormally hot is 10 or 20 (Farenheit, but translates in 5/9 into Celsius) ABOVE the temperature everywhere else where cofee is served.

      If you burn yourself on the oven at home, would you sue the manufacturer of the oven?

      Your analogy is missing some crucial parts. If you burn yourself on the oven at home, and the oven uses a higher temperature than all other manufacturers. Moreover, the incidents have happened, and the oven manufacturer was warned and has reason to believe that it was due to his exceedengly high temperatures used... Well, would you sue now?

      Anyways, look it. I used to post links explaining this, but no more. google it.

    43. Re:Not supreme court by error0x100 · · Score: 2

      You can't sue one manufacturer for making a car less secure than the other (as long as both parts followed the rules and regulations involved in making cars)

      I remember reading once that McDonalds lost this case because there are actually rules and regulations (FDA, I think) stipulating the maximum temperature at which hot beverages may be served, and that McDonalds was over this limit. I don't know if thats true though.

    44. Re:Not supreme court by egreB · · Score: 1

      First of all, I take back some of the statments in my grand-parent post. 40 degrees liquid won't give anyone serious burns. 50 degrees can, according to a Red Cross member I know. That particular case was the opposite of a burn (a freeze? Any good english words?) on a foot and somebody tried to heat it with water around 50 degrees. It was probably for some time, but it ended with both freeze AND burn injury (thought not third grade).

      The reason air around 50 degrees don't give anyone skin burns, AFAIK is that it has a lower capacity of transporting heat. There's probably a much better way to say this in english, but my physics was learned in another language.

      Anyway, in my opinion, coffee-shops, restaurants and the like may serve their coffee just as hot as they may, even at 85 degrees. At a special coffee-house near my school, you get each cup of coffee individually steamed. Steamed water is about 100 degrees. When it enters the cup, it's not damp but water, but the temperature can't be that much lower. You get the cup seconds after it's finished. The cup is so hot they wrap it in insulation for you to carry to your table. I love it. Nobody has any problems with that, and if they spill it, it's their problem.

      I most certainly agree that my comment was ill-informed on the case of McDonalds, but I'm questioning the mere concept of the lawsuit - that spilling hot coffee on oneself is reason enough to sue and win. I read up on some of the links Google told me, but none seem to deny this fact.

      By "If you need, I can probably look up some information on this" I meant "look up information on the subject discussed in this paragraph only." That is, information on how everything in life involves rics, and the statistics in traffic, boat and plane accidents and how dangerous it may be. There's a lot of information on this at Statistics Norway (http://www.ssb.no). According to them, 8 440 peoplo were killed or injured in car accidents, none in train accidents and none in airplane accidents (on norwegian grounds). I couldn't find statistics on means of transportation on water. We're talking about a population of about 4M. Now, that was the information on the dangers involved in transportation. Life is dangerous, you won't survive it.

      I'm not trying to argue wether or not this is good and desirable ethics by McDonalds. I know the reason for keeping the coffee that hot is pure money-making. Maybe they shouldn't have kept their coffee that hot. But that's not the point.

      In Norway, there's no such thing as industry standard hot coffee or industry standard temperature on ovens. It's different from place to place. Even if all oven manufacturers and coffee servers kept their products at the same temperature, and suddenly one of them keep theirs at a higher temperature, it wouldn't be enough to sue anyone. There's a risc involved in both cooking and coffee-drinking (though not very high riscs). Both is at temperatures high enough to hurt you.

      I really can't beleive I'm having this discussion! In Norway, there's quite strict laws and regulations that protects consumers. Nobody needs to sue anybody. By the slightest complain to the Consumer Department most buisnesses give over at once and do whatever they can to avoid negative public reactions. But on the subject of serving hot coffee..!

      (All degrees are in Celsius. Quite a lot of countries use Celsius, and rarely see Fahrenheit. I know only of one country still using the imperial system (as opposed to the metric system) and Fahrenheit.)

      P.S. Sorry if this post seems a bit angry - it is. I'm sure I haven't got all my facts straight, but the point remains, I hope. The mentality of american way dealing with justice .. puzzles me.

      And for the karma whoring: Please don't moderate. At least not "insightful." "Interesting," maybe, but please none at all. This is merely a way for me to get my feelings out (-8

    45. Re:Not supreme court by Kiwi · · Score: 1
      I was refering to the the plates(?) on top of ovens (no idea what they are called in english)

      Here in the US, we call those things heating coils. Keep in mind that almost every single oven I have seen in the US is an electric oven; to heat up the oven we run a good deal of electric current through the heating coil to make it red-hot.

      The heating coil is, of course, inside the oven. We usually only heat up the coil in the bottom of the oven unless we are broiling something; then we heat up the coil which is in the top of the oven.

      If you use a plate (you know, a large sheet of metal, not the dish one eats off of) to heat things up in ovens over there, I guess we would call such a thing a heating plate.

      - Sam

      --

      The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.

    46. Re:Not supreme court by egreB · · Score: 2

      Well, that puts things in an entirly different light, and all my other posts are useless. In that case, sorry, so long and thanks for all the fish.

      Though Googling didn't come up with arguments like that..

    47. Re:Not supreme court by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2

      I'm so sick of this misrepresentation that she "spilled the coffee on herself". That's how it gets phrased by people who want to use the case as a vehicle for complaining about lawyers and over-suing in America. But the facts of the case were that the coffee got spilled during the TRANSFER from the McDonald's Employee to the woman. The employee let go before the customer had gotten a full grip on the cup, and thus the cup was fumbled. And THAT is why she won. Had she actually spilled the coffee on herself through nothing but her own incompetence, as people keep misrepresenting when they talk about the case, the jury would not have been as sympathetic.

      I agree that the US is way to sue-happy. But this classic example people keep using isn't an appropriate example of that, and it's not fair to the woman that this urban legend of her klutzyness keeps spreading.

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    48. Re:Not supreme court by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I'll concede that she was at least partly (and possibly mostly) to blame for being so incompetent in the first place, but the burns were worse than one should reasonably expect.

      The inital payout was far too large. McD did appeal, but tend not to talk too much about the fact that this appeal was succesful, and the amont was reduced. Also, she was found 20% at fault, and the amount was reduced by a further 20%. Okay, 20% is probably too little, but the court doesn't like to disagree with itself too often.

    49. Re:Not supreme court by egreB · · Score: 2

      Ah. This is where my english vocabulary comes to an end. Pity, I always thought of myself as rather good in english, considering it's not my native language. Ah well. Though, in my recollection, I have never had any conversation in wich kitchen stuff have played any significant part.

      On afterthought, I recon the word "plate" is the thing you put food you're about to eat on. The norwegian word "plate" means coil on top of the oven. The norwegian word is much better, as it cannot be confused (-8 So if I got this straight:

      Coil on top of oven: Round peices of metal mounted on top of a largish object in the kitchen, wich purpose is to heat kettles and such (like heating water).

      Heating coil inside the oven: Carefully crafted device designed to make the temparture inside the oven high enough for broiling (like chicken).

      Am I right? Sorry, I just have to get this. Are there no specific words for these devices in english? What do one say, "hey, put the kettle on the coil? Turn down the temperature on the coil, so that the potatoes won't die?"

      The overwhelming majority of ovens are electric, even in Norway as well. Though I'm a fan of the old ones, based on wood and fire (-8

      I can't beleive I don't already know this! Here I am, having had (ehm.. is that correct english?) english for the last eight or nine years at school and only reading english literature, not able to understand the simplest kitchen stuff? The shame!

    50. Re:Not supreme court by shepd · · Score: 1
      Okay, I'll take this on.

      Coil would be a generic word for the device. Since, inside the ceramic, a wire is wrapped in a spiral, which, when current is passed through, heats up or causes magnetic induction, it's a coil. This word applies to anything that takes this form, electrical inductors can be called coils, the wire inside a speaker is called a coil, etc, etc. Heck, you can call spirals coils! ;-)

      However, the _correct_ term is Heating Element for what you speak of.

      And, to verify, dictionary.com to the rescue:

      element: Electricity. The resistance wire in an electrical appliance such as a heater or an oven.
      Both of the elements are called just that, heating elements. The ones on the top, for pans, would be stove top elements, whereas the one in the bottom of the oven would be an oven element. Some ovens have a broiler, which (I would suppose, as I've never bought one) is called a broiler element.

      There you go, that should clear it up!

      (And, just to be sure, here's a link to a company in the UK that only sells elements).

      >Here I am, having had (ehm.. is that correct english?) english for the last eight or nine years at school and only reading english literature, not able to understand the simplest kitchen stuff? The shame!

      Don't worry. Even "english" people have trouble with their own language. Try asking an American to talk to someone from Australia one day...

      Just for laughs, do they teach you to spell "valor", valour? And which pronunciation do they tell you to use for the letter "Z"? Okay, last but not least, realized or realised?
      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    51. Re:Not supreme court by Kiwi · · Score: 1
      Coil on top of oven: Round peices of metal mounted on top of a largish object in the kitchen, wich purpose is to heat kettles and such (like heating water).

      We call those things stoves. For example, "Please take the tea kettle off of the stove", or "The sauce pan is on the stove. "Stove" really has two meanings; "stove" is both the box with has the (almost always) four stoves on top, and each "stove" is an individual circular thing which heats up kettles, pots, and pans.

      We have two kinds of stoves; gas stoves (which everyone I knows prefers) and electric stoves. Electric stoves scare me; it is too easy to burn pots and burn your finger on one of those.

      The oven is a square box which we cook or roast food in. There are "convential ovens"; those are the ovens which use heat (via the "heating coil" which I was discussing before) to cook food. Then there are "microwave ovens" which use microwave radiation to more quickly heat up food. We call the process of using a microwave to heat food, informally, "to nuke" food. The "to nuke" slang may not be universal among English-speakers; it is informal language here in California.

      What else about cooking food? A pot is a tall bowl-shaped object with a handle used for cooking things with a lot of water, such as soup; a pan is a short bowl-shaped object used for cooking things which are more solid, such as frying chicken.

      Perhaps I should go in to refrigerators (used foor keeping food cool, but above the freezing point of water), freezers (used for keeping food colder than the freeing point for water), and iceboxes (regional language for either a refrigerator or freezer), or 'fridge (shortened form of refrigerator).

      I am not surprised that you are not familiar with this terminology; most literature does not discuss this kind of thing.

      - Sam

      --

      The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.

    52. Re:Not supreme court by jrockway · · Score: 2

      Well, air and other materials have different "abilities" to transfer heat to your skin. For instance, put your hand in a 350 degree oven (not for a long time!) and you'll notice that you don't get burned. Touch the metal inside and you will. So perhaps a 40 degree (celcius) liquid can burn you (it can't because japanese baths that i've bathed in are at 45 and i didn't ge burned...), but 40 degree air can't.

      Q = mc/\t, where the c for air is less than that of water. (Q = work done, c = constant, m = mass, /\t = change in time)

      --
      My other car is first.
    53. Re:Not supreme court by ppanon · · Score: 2

      According to some of the comments I read (second-hand), the law that Jon Johansen was prosecuted under was primarily targeted to those breaking into someone else's computer system. It's applicability in the case of someone decoding software/data that they have purchased for use on their own computer seemed quite a far reach. The prosecutor appeared to have been on a fishing expedition and the judge seems to have seen it that way as well.

      Since the prosecution's effort appears to have been a long shot, questioning the motivation for that effort is quite reasonable.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    54. Re:Not supreme court by egreB · · Score: 2

      > There you go, that should clear it up!
      Thanks alot! (-8

      > Just for laughs, do they teach you to spell "valor", valour? And which pronunciation do they tell you to use for the letter "Z"? Okay, last but not least, realized or realised?

      But, well of course we learn British english! Valour, favourites, realised. Fish'n'chips. I even have a northern english accent on my spoken language.. Can't stand american english. Though, you can ask to be evaluated with american english instead, if you happen to like it.

    55. Re:Not supreme court by shepd · · Score: 1

      >Though, you can ask to be evaluated with american english instead, if you happen to like it.

      If you want to confuse them, ask for Canadian english. Think American English + British English all in one!

      (It's one reason I'm proud to be Canadian -- I can handle either dialect! :-)

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    56. Re:Not supreme court by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you ranting about? Must be some other case, as the facts are pretty much agreed upon:

      Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico, was in the passenger seat of
      her grandson's car when she was severely burned by McDonalds' coffee in
      February 1992. Liebeck, 79 at the time, ordered coffee that was served
      in a styrofoam cup at the drivethrough window of a local McDonalds.

      After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and
      stopped momentarily so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her
      coffee. (Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often
      charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in
      motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed
      the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from
      the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled
      into her lap.

      So the TRANSFER was complete, she was not distracted by driving, she was not rolling up her window, she was not (that we know of) jostled, she just klutzed out and spilled it on herself through (your words) nothing but her own incompetence.

      More stuff:
      When it came to the punitive damages, the jury found that McDonald's had engaged in willful, reckless, malicious, or wanton conduct, and rendered a punitive damage award of 2.7 million dollars. (The equivalent of just two days of coffee sales ... ) The award was later reduced to ~480,000, and she accepted a check for less than that - but I can't find a definitive final amount. :(

      Stella Liebeck, age 79, was a passenger in the car.
      The car was at a full stop so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. [She was not the driver and the car was not moving.]
      The cup tipped and spilled over her lap.

      I have to assume you are thinking about this case - "[The attorney]planned to introduce photographs of his previous client's injuries and those of a California woman who suffered second- and third-degree burns after a McDonald's employee spilled hot coffee into her vehicle in 1990, a case that was settled out of court for $230,000." but, as it is not the case being discussed, your rant is also irrelevent to the discussion.

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
    57. Re:Not supreme court by KlomDark · · Score: 2

      Yah, but in America, freshly brewed coffee is nearer to 200 degrees, so it must be a lot hotter. :)

    58. Re:Not supreme court by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2

      I have to assume you are thinking about this case
      [ snip description of case ] but, as it is not the case being discussed, your rant is also irrelevent to the discussion.

      Of course I was. But until your post, I was unaware that there were two seperate coffee-spilling suits against McDonalds. Everyone else assumes people are always talking about the more recent case, and I assumed they were talking about the less recent case, since I didn't realize there were two independant incidents and I'd already known about the first one when the story first came out. Did I screw up by assuming there was only one suit? Yes. But no more so than everyone else who assumes there was only one suit, and is thinking of the more recent one.

      (Annoying slashdot feature: The part of your post I wanted to cut and paste was at the very bottom, after the "Read the rest of this comment" break line. But there's no way to read the full comment without that break on the same page as the "post a reply" form. So I had to have two windows open - one to reply in and the other to view the entire post so I could cut and paste the bit at the end.)
      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    59. Re:Not supreme court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean... hot... as in "HOT FUCKING COFFEE!"

      It's really simple: You make coffee with boiling water (well, I do). I don't spill it on myself because I'm not a fucking spastic -- and even if something happened and I did spill it, I wouldn't blame anyone else because it is hot FUCKING coffee. If I wanted something cold I'd have bought a coke.

    60. Re:Not supreme court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hotter than everyone else?

      For fuck's sake man! Did McDonalds pressurise the container and then superheat it... so when she opened it, the coffee flashed into super heated steam burning her face off? No... obviously not. It's hot coffee. Are all Americans retards, or is it just those who bring court cases... and the current president?

    61. Re:Not supreme court by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 1

      I was unaware that there were two seperate coffee-spilling suits against McDonalds.

      Even more eye-opening was the revelation that McDonald's had seen such injuries many times before. Company documents showed that in the past decade McDonald's had received at least 700 reports of coffee burns ranging from mild to third degree, and had settled claims arising from scalding injuries for more than $500,000.

      I have counted more than 4 suits mentioned in reports of the procedings of this trial, the others were settled for amounts ranging from $27,000 to $230,000 - so you are correct, there are valid reasons for confusion when talking about "a suit against McDonalds reguarding spilled coffee".

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
  8. Can't anyone get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The bastard never wrote DeCSS, he merely wrote a GUI. This is a sad day.

    1. Re:Can't anyone get it right? by infolib · · Score: 2

      This is a sad day.

      No it isn't. Did you want him convicted?

      I can see why you're frustrated with people getting things wrong over and over again, but overall, this could hardly get better.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
    2. Re:Can't anyone get it right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So then set it right. Tell us what REALLY happened!

    3. Re:Can't anyone get it right? by snillfisk · · Score: 2

      "What really happened" has been discussed in the court for a week, just try to find someone who has translated the happennings into english :) You could try EFN.

      --
      mats
      One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
    4. Re:Can't anyone get it right? by nordicfrost · · Score: 2

      This is stated in the verdict.

    5. Re:Can't anyone get it right? by KjetilK · · Score: 3, Informative

      He never claimed to have written anything but a GUI. Police didn't believe him, but the court did.

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
    6. Re:Can't anyone get it right? by moonlit2 · · Score: 1

      Actually, he was tried as an *accomplice*, the court were very well aware that he did not write the DeCSS algorithm itself. Read the verdict and see.

      --
      - Yup. He got it.
  9. Norway, Europe & The World by Xner · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Some people's enthousiasm may be dulled from the fact that this ruling only applies to the coutry of Norway. Fear not, I think this will have subtle but far-reaching consequences, especially for those of us in the EU.

    Even though Norway is not part of the EU, I'm sure people over here will pay attention and (hopefully) it will help sink that DMCA-like abomination the EC has been mulling over for a few years now for good.

    It's happening. People are starting to pay attention. With most households owning a DVD player, things like "region code" are filtering down to the masses, and people are a lot more receptive when you attempt to explain how CSS, end-to-end encryption and the DMCA affect what they can (and are allowed) to do with digital media they payed for.

    And most people do not like it one bit.

    --
    Pathman, Free (as in GPL) 3D Pac Man
    1. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by October_30th · · Score: 2, Informative
      DMCA-like abomination the EC has been mulling over for a few years now for good.

      Mulling?

      It has already passed all the legislative stages in the EU and is now in force. All that matters now is that the member states will incorporate it into their national legislation -- something which they are obliged to do under EU law.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    2. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Fenresulven · · Score: 1

      The deadline for implementing it was 22. December, so far only Denmark and Greece actually has. That could be considered opposition to it wouldn't you say?

    3. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Peyote+Pekka · · Score: 1

      It's happening. People are starting to pay attention. With most households owning a DVD player, things like "region code" are filtering down to the masses, and people are a lot more receptive when you attempt to explain how CSS, end-to-end encryption and the DMCA affect what they can (and are allowed) to do with digital media they payed for.

      It's a start and hopefully the EU's decision makers will take the clue. I spoke with a Dane about the issue last year and it seemed just under the radar then, though it was common knowledge that you have to get your DVD player "fixed" in order to play DVDs that you buy elswhere.
    4. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by mijok · · Score: 1

      Norway is not a member of the EU so they won't be affected.

      --
      Karma. Moderation. Is my .sig good now?
    5. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by October_30th · · Score: 1
      Any opposition is pretty much irrelevant once the directive has been approved. The delays you talk about are largely due to national level bureaucratic inertia and not to any real opposition.

      What's really sad is that in the usual EU style the public has hardly been informed about this legislation not to mention its consequences. Furthermore, in comparison with the grassroot level opposition in the U.S.A., European privacy and fair use lobbiyists have been particularly ineffective in spreading the word and fighting the legislation.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    6. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by DaBj · · Score: 1

      No. If that many countries where against it then the law wouldn't have been passed in the first case.

      It's not uncommon for countries in the EU to be sloppy when it comes to implementing the "federal" laws (EU is more of a federation than a union), it's just that we geeks don't care about laws for export of ducks eggs or the color on the governmental envelopes, so we don't know about those.

      --
      "GNU's not Unix....it's Linux" / Kami "kokamomi" Petersen
    7. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it a member of the WIPO? That's where the EUCD and DMCA originated - if Norway is a member of WIPO then it will also need to institute DMCA/EUCD-like laws.

    8. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Brane · · Score: 1
      > Norway is not a member of the EU so they won't be affected.

      You didn't read the story very carefully, did you? Quoting from above: "Norway has introduced legislation similar to the European Unions directive on copyright, making it illegal to circumvent any copyright protection".

      Ok, I forgive you, since that quote is as far as I know not quite correct. But Norway is obliged to implement the EU directive by the EEA (European Economic Area) agreement between Norway and the EU.

      Here is a Norwegian article about how the ruling in the case against DVD-Jon will not affect similar cases in the future, because of these new laws, according to renowned Norwegian law professor Jon Bing. The article also mentions that the implementation of the EU directive will be done within about 6 months.

    9. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Darren+Winsper · · Score: 4, Informative

      Eh? The UK has been forced to delay its introduction of the EUCD into the commons because of all the feedback it got, most of it being quite damning of the EUCD.

    10. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by October_30th · · Score: 1
      And watch how all the feedback will be ignored when it's time to go on with the introduction. As a member of EU, UK is legally obliged to implement the EuroDMCA Directive.

      The only realistic way to avoid the introduction of this legislation is that some sufficiently powerful member country (UK, maybe) will challenge it successfully in front of the European Union Court.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    11. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by mijok · · Score: 1

      OK, thanks! I was a bit hasty... I read that article too now (Swedish is my native language but I've lived in Norway for one year so I understood it easily).

      --
      Karma. Moderation. Is my .sig good now?
    12. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by kilogram · · Score: 1

      Norway will in the near future have laws forced through by the EU, similar to the DMCA, even though Norway is not members of the EU. This will then make sure that similar "victories" won't happen in the future, and the Johansen case will not have legal precedence when the new laws step in.

      Further, in Norway, laws actually permit taking backups of what you have bought licenses to, and it also permits copying "for personal use". What "personal use" is, is subject for discussion, but the most common interpretation is that if you don't distribute (or sell), you aren't doing anything illegal. Of course, this is a generalization, but you get the point.

      A movie we won't see; Hackers 3 feat. DVD-Jon... :)

    13. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Darren+Winsper · · Score: 2

      But a lot of the EUCD is "optional", thus we could then simply drop a lot of the nasty bits and a lot of the crap would thus be removed.

    14. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Rogerborg · · Score: 2

      Care to cite the "optional" parts? AFAIK, the only options are whether to create criminal or civil offences, i.e. whether to bitchslap people with taxpayer's moneym, or whether to just let the MPA* tentacles do the slapping.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    15. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Cally · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm a UK citizen, and one of the "John Doe"s on the California deCSS case (#13, lucky for some) (cited for redistributing deCSS.) Congratulations to Jon, let's hope that this is the start of the Law waking up to, and acknowledging, fair use and common sense. My mirror's still up despite various nastygrams from the ISP prompted by bullying tactics by the MPAA (presumably, the complainant was anonymous but who else could it have been?) and the EUCD directive which is currently on hold for a month or two. Is it too much to hope for to wonder whether this case could lead to a rethink of the whole DMCA-like tenor that European law has been heading in of late?

      --
      "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
    16. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by trezor · · Score: 1

      "Fixed" now thats a cool way of putting it. Quite accurate as well.

      "I'd like my DVD-player fixed, please. This one is brolen."

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    17. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Further, in Norway, laws actually permit taking backups of what you have bought licenses to, and it also permits copying "for personal use"
      False: for computer programs, copying for personal use is not allowed. The law at this point is just like the law in UK and USA (if you don't count the DMCA).

      Johan

    18. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 2

      Actually the direktive has a large number of options in it - just read the directive.

      Thr directive you can get it in other languages if you press the lanfuage you want on the right upper part of the web page.

      All options are in article 5.

      --
      Just saying it like it are.
    19. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by LarsG · · Score: 2

      But a lot of the EUCD is "optional", thus we could then simply drop a lot of the nasty bits and a lot of the crap would thus be removed.

      I wish.. The NICE parts (like most of article 5 and parts of 6.4) and are optional. The nasty bits (most notably articles 4.2, 6.1-6.3, 6.4.4) are mandatory.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    20. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by ethereal · · Score: 1

      I actually asked at Best Buy if they would fix mine, which seems to be similarly broken. The tech monkey said that it was probably illegal to do so. I resisted the urge to debate the finer points of U.S. law with him on that regard. Not that I really expected them to do anything about it, but it was mildly amusing for a moment.

      --

      Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

    21. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a member of EU, UK is legally obliged to implement the EuroDMCA Directive.

      In the UK Parliament's word is law, hence the need for them to pass the Act in the first place. If they don't pass it then it isn't law. That might create all sorts of diplomatic problems but unless and until if parliament choose to make it law it will not be law. HMG do not have any power to override that, whoever they they make agreements or treaties with.

    22. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hasn't your lawyer advised you not to talk about this case? What if you mis-say something and they nab you on it?

    23. Re:Norway, Europe & The World by Cally · · Score: 2

      > Hasn't your lawyer advised you not to talk about
      > this case? What if you mis-say something and they > nab you on it?

      I don't have a lawyer; I'm not wasting my precious disposable income on defending such a ludicrous and blatantly meritless case, esp. when I'm in the UK. Californian law doesn't run here. I've done nothing wrong; if they think I have - bring it on!

      --
      "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
  10. Re:FP by bluntos · · Score: 1

    F*cking Priceless?

    --
    Fnord Fnord Fnord
  11. Indeed... by Xner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm quite certain the phrase is "beyond reasonable doubt".

    --
    Pathman, Free (as in GPL) 3D Pac Man
    1. Re:Indeed... by trezor · · Score: 1

      Anyway... The judge said that more or less this: "everyone should be free to watch their DVDs, regardsless of if their player is licensed by the DVD-CCA or not."

      The MPAA f**ked up, thats all :)

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    2. Re:Indeed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      \i{The MPAA f**ked up, thats all :)}

      Maybe the just messed up the on the currency conversion rates when they handed over the briefcase full of cash?

  12. IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by CausticWindow · · Score: 1

    YOU 0wn your own property.

    --
    How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
    1. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by catman · · Score: 1

      It's been a while since we had a socialist government. The Labour party is way, way down there in the opinion polls...

    2. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I think every European nation is socialist compared with the US.

      I'm pretty certain that Norway at least has decent safeguards for the unemployed, and some form of free health care worth talking about.

    3. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Norway is also the only country in the world, together with Iran, that sports a priest as Head of State.........

    4. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by Graabein · · Score: 2
      Norway is also the only country in the world, together with Iran, that sports a priest as Head of State.........

      Not quite. Our head of state is King Harald and AFAIK he has never been ordained.

      You may be thinking of our Prime Minister, Kjell Magne Bondevik, who is indeed a priest (Lutheran Minister).

      --
      And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
    5. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by yggdrazil · · Score: 1

      You can't own property, maaan. Property owns you...

      BTW: Norway is not socialist, and the once great socialdemocratic party has been very much marginalized. Todays government is a christiandemocratic coalition. Our F16s patrol the skies of Afghanistan, while our special forces are back from operation Anaconda.

    6. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our F16s patrol the skies of Afghanistan, while our special forces are back from operation Anaconda.

      What does that have to do with what economic system you have?

      "Well, they are siding with the US" is not an acceptable answer. The US and the USSR were on the same side in WWII, after all.

    7. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by Reziac · · Score: 2

      I may be misremembering, but isn't the English monarch also *technically* the head of the Church of England??

      Besides, who cares, so long as they do their secular job correctly!! Some will, some won't. Just like non-priests.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    8. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I may be misremebering, but Norway isn't part of England, is it?

  13. GET READY by BillGod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now HOLYWOOD will be wanting us to "license" DVD's from them for our own use. That way they can maintain ownership of the DVD itself.

    --
    MISSING - Sig file. 2 years old black and white and very funny. If found please email me.
    1. Re:GET READY by Fixerbob · · Score: 1

      Now please don't get giving them ideas !!

    2. Re:GET READY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I can't own it and use it the way I want to, then I don't pay for it. That's why microsoft never gets a dime from me.

    3. Re:GET READY by stubear · · Score: 2

      Actually, technically speaking you do license the DVD. Well, you license the content anyway. Copyright lawy allows for you to view the copy you own but you may not distribute the content (P2P violates this one big time), make copies of the content (beyond backups and once again P2P facilitates this sort of copyright infringement), manage a public performance of the work (summer film festivals, etc.), or make derivatves of the work (beyond parody). Copyright is simply a license between the copyright holder and the public. You only truly own the media the content is on, not the content itself.

    4. Re:GET READY by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      Copyright lawy allows for you to view the copy you own but you may not distribute the content (P2P violates this one big time), make copies of the content (beyond backups and once again P2P facilitates this sort of copyright infringement), manage a public performance of the work (summer film festivals, etc.), or make derivatves of the work (beyond parody).
      Canadian law allows you to borrow a copyrighted work and make a copy for your own research. Which is how I how I built-up my 5000 plus MP-3 collection, straight from public library CDs.

      It is, however, illegal for me to make a copy and give it to someone else.

  14. This is just the first battle. by Zayin · · Score: 3, Informative

    The real showdown will be when Norway implements the EUCD directive. Then this verdict could be rather irrelevant as the new laws could make such actions illegal anyway.

    --
    "I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy"
    1. Re:This is just the first battle. by mijok · · Score: 1

      Norway is not a member of the EU so they won't implement it.

      --
      Karma. Moderation. Is my .sig good now?
    2. Re:This is just the first battle. by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      Norway is not part of the EU, but they have their own equivalent to the EUCD. They've signed up to the same interantional treaty that the entertainment industry organised in order to subvert the US democratic system.

    3. Re:This is just the first battle. by Avakado · · Score: 2, Informative

      The real showdown will be when Norway implements the EUCD directive. Then this verdict could be rather irrelevant as the new laws could make such actions illegal anyway.

      Not neccesarily so. As representatives from EFF Norway told on their press conference today, the EUCD/Infosoc directive leaves room for interpretation, and a very loose version of the law could very well be implemented. Also, see this page.

      --
      The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out.
    4. Re:This is just the first battle. by infolib · · Score: 2

      They've signed up to the same interantional treaty that the entertainment industry organised in order to subvert the US democratic system.

      You're talking about the Wipo Copyright Treaty (WCT) If you look at article 11, the "technological measures" (DRM) need not be "protected" against circumvention if it restricts acts that are "permitted by law".

      The main problem is still the European Copyright Directive (EUCD) I don't know how strongly Norway is bound by that. (Norways is not member of the EU, but is in the EEC)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
    5. Re:This is just the first battle. by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1
      If you look at article 11, the "technological measures" (DRM) need not be "protected" against circumvention if it restricts acts that are "permitted by law".
      True, but I have yet to come across a WCT-derived legal implementation that doesn't afford that level of protection to DRM technologies.
    6. Re:This is just the first battle. by vidarh · · Score: 2

      Norway is a member of the EEA (European Economic Area), and hence is obligated to implement it regardless of not being a member of EU.

    7. Re:This is just the first battle. by infolib · · Score: 2

      Hopefully it's not too late for the New Zealand version.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
    8. Re:This is just the first battle. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last time I checked, EU ass about the Union, with common laws, and the EEA was about economy and free trade. When did they switch those two around, so that Norway would be forced to implement union laws?

    9. Re:This is just the first battle. by LarsG · · Score: 2

      As representatives from EFF Norway told on their press conference today, the EUCD/Infosoc directive leaves room for interpretation ..but not nearly enough to make a good law out of it. There is nothing that can be done with 4.2. 6.1-6.3 is fairly set in stone. We have a shot at scaring the *AA from using too intrusive DRM systems if we get a strong implementation of 6.4. Then you have 6.4.4 which is a real snake hiding in the grass (6.4 doesn't apply for interactive works wrapped in an eula).

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    10. Re:This is just the first battle. by vidarh · · Score: 2

      From day one. EU directives in most areas except for external tarrifs, security, foreign policy and agriculture are binding on all EEA member states, but non-EU EEA members (Norway and Iceland) does not have a vote when the EU directives are decided on.

  15. Linux? by perraymo · · Score: 1

    Acording to this verdict the intention was never to make a dvd player for linux
    (Even though that was his original statement), rather to make a program that was "Easy to use for the 'average Joe'",
    The verdict notes this because the GUI he wrote was for Windows.

    (Another interesting quote from Jon "God damned linux fanatics, I wish someone would shoot them ; )"

    1. Re:Linux? by Vegard · · Score: 1

      But it also states that those logs from IRC was basically worthless, taken out of its context. One can't know what is a joke and what is not. The smiley, however, should be a strong hint...

      He hass also said that he likes FreeBSD better. Whether or not he likes FreeBSD or Linux is more or less irrelevant. I guess the arguments would be even stronger if he did it to make a player for FreeBSD. FreeBSD doesn't have that much public attention or public support, yet, so a DVD player for FreeBSD, I guess, was even longer away.
      (does there exist one yet, for FreeBSD?)

    2. Re:Linux? by really? · · Score: 1

      (does there exist one [DVD player] yet, for FreeBSD?)

      You are a very funny person. No, really.

      --

      "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
    3. Re:Linux? by KjetilK · · Score: 3, Informative
      No, the verdicts just cites those things, goes on to say that the court cannot take them too seriously, as they are humorous and indicates irony (basically, the judge understood what ;) means, the prosecutor did not). The court didn't find that it was conclusively proved that DeCSS was mainly for Linux, but it also found that the prosecution had not given any proof to the contrary, which is their job.

      As for that quote, it was something Jon uttered after having been seriously flamed for having stolen Fawkus code, which Fawkus later said he had not.

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
  16. EU & the local DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    will not happen. The deadline on the directive passed on 22.12.2002, and since only two countries (Greece and Denmark) made the directive into a national law, it is no longer in effect. The register story on this

    1. Re:EU & the local DMCA by October_30th · · Score: 1
      It will happen. The fact that so few countries have ratified the Directive so far does not mean that it has somehow become null and void.

      The EU Court has decided since 1970 that a Directive has a direct effect for all EU countries even after the deadline has passed. The member countries are legally obliged to implement it in their national legislation.

      As far as I know, a member state can still tell EU to get stuffed and refuse to implement the Directive into the national legislation. Then, however, any other member state may sue the offending state into the EU Court which, in most likelyhood, will impose sanctions on the state that has failed to implement the Directive.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
  17. Of course... by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This simply shows that at least in Norway decrypting a DVD is not data theft. OTOH, since the prosecution did not try to charge him with copyright circumvention we still have no ruling on the matter.

    --
    "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
    --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    1. Re:Of course... by egil · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, copyright circumvention was certainly considered. But the prosecutors (Økokrim) found that this would be no good, since Norwegian copyright law gives pretty extensive rights in terms of fair use. So there was no need for a ruling on copyright circumvention since there simply is no case.

  18. Infosoc by Bish.dk · · Score: 5, Informative

    LarsBT links to this Reuters newsflash and points out that since Johansen's arrest, "Norway has introduced legislation similar to the European Unions directive on copyright [pdf], making it illegal to circumvent any copyright protection - making it highly unlikely that he would be found not guilty under these new rules."

    Norway is not part of the EU, but still takes most new EU-laws and directives and implements them into their own law. The irony of them implementing the Infosoc-directive (Euro-DMCA) mentioned above is that they're almost the only ones doing it. So far, only Denmark (*sigh*) and Greece has implemented the directive.

    1. Re:Infosoc by Graabein · · Score: 2
      The irony of them implementing the Infosoc-directive (Euro-DMCA)

      But we haven't implemented it (yet)! Where did this misinformation come from?

      The good thing about the way the public prosecutors have pushed this case with a very high media profile since day 1, is that it has raised awareness on the issues at stake amongst "ordinary" (non-geek) people. Check out this op-ed commentary (sorry, Norwegian only) in the Norwegian daily Dagbladet for example. I quote (my translation):

      "Based on directives from the EU as well as the UN intellectual property organization WIPO, the Ministry of Culture is currently working on implementing new laws for the protection of intellectual property in Norway. The EU Infosoc-directive is very loosely defined, but could open for very strict interpretations, like for example making ripping MP3s from your own CDs illegal, even if only for your own use. DVD-Jon's work in providing a DVD player which lets you skip advertising could also be banned by this (what next, books which can only be read while sitting in sofas made by Ikea?)."

      End quote.

      The verdict today is not just a great victory for Jon Johansen, and a temporary relief for consumers in Norway, it could seriously impact the way Infosoc is eventually implemented into law here. At least I hope so.

      --
      And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
  19. Let's hope that he asks damages by paai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I sincerely hope that he now sues those American robber barons for damages...

    Paai

    1. Re:Let's hope that he asks damages by nordicfrost · · Score: 5, Informative

      Acutally, the manufacturer of the Xing DVD player could sue Jon for damages. They have, without dispute, lost A LOT of money after this incident. Not only was their CSS-keys retracted from the market, they also had to pay a fine to the DVD CCA. They are the real losers in this ordeal.

    2. Re:Let's hope that he asks damages by alastairm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well what you say about Xing's losses is totally correct. However if they had followed the terms of the license they received then they would not have made discovery of their key so easy and saved themselves the world of pain they ended up in.

      To say they should be able to go after the "hacker"[1] to recover damages for their own failures is the kind of thing that one only sees in US courts!

      [1a] Jon was not the person who discovered the keys - he wrote a GUI.
      [1b] The use of the term hacker is inappropriate in this context anyway.

    3. Re:Let's hope that he asks damages by nordicfrost · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that's true. They should have obfuscated their code in order to make the keys hard to get.

  20. not really a victory by WPIDalamar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This isn't really a victory. It should have never gone this far in the first place. Calling it a victory is like saying someone who got hit by a car and survived was lucky ... if they were really lucky, they wouldn't have been hit in the first place.

    1. Re:not really a victory by IPFreely · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not only that, but the car is backing up for another pass...

      --
      There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
    2. Re:not really a victory by Reziac · · Score: 2

      As an old story about good luck goes, that's the difference between tidy good luck and sloppy good luck.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    3. Re:not really a victory by Vaughn+Anderson · · Score: 1

      uhm, sorry you can't control random events, (like being sued or being hit by a car) so avoiding them is luck, not a victory.

      AFTER you have been hit, or sued, if you live or win, _that IS_ a victory...

      I am sure the bad guy lawyers were sitting over there smirking "ha, they thought they won, but I saw the look in the judges eye, he really didn't mean it."

      -v

    4. Re:not really a victory by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 2

      Sounds like people who's house gets ruined by a tornado and then come out of the wreckage alive saying, "I'm thankful God saved our lives."

      I'll have to remember that if I'm ever mugged. "I thank my mugger for choosing not to kill me. Thank's Mr. Mugger - you're such a good guy."

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    5. Re:not really a victory by boffer · · Score: 1

      Oh but it is a victory. People will get hit by cars, (unless everybody stopped walking, which is quite unrealistic). So, assuming someone was gonna get prosecuted, this is a victory, since we won :)

  21. No double jeopardy rules? by ToastyKen · · Score: 2

    So there's no law in Norway against double jeopardy? In the States, if you're acquitted, there can be no appeals...

    1. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by gorilla · · Score: 3, Informative

      Double jeopardy only applies in criminal trials. In civil trials, the loosing side(s) can appeal.

    2. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by maroberts · · Score: 2

      This was a criminal trial, otherwise the courts would not have the power to impose penalties like jail, probation et al. They would surely be restricted to civil penalties.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    3. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by ccady · · Score: 1

      Please. "Double Jeopardy" refers to being put in jeopardy of being convicted twice for the same crime. A trial in which the defendant is acquitted is often appealed to a higher court.

      --
      J'aime mieux les méchants que les imbéciles, parce qu'ils se reposent. -- Alexandre Dumas
    4. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by arcade · · Score: 4, Informative

      This was a criminal case. JJ was charged for breaking criminal law, paragraph 145, second WhateverTheEnglishTermIs.

      There is no such thing as 'double jeopardy' in Norway.

      --
      "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
    5. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "In the States, if you're acquitted, there can be no appeals..."

      Pull your head out of your ass. Where did you get your law degree, dumbass?

    6. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by Rogerborg · · Score: 2

      I could care fewer about that.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    7. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by caldaan · · Score: 1

      Which is exaclty what an appeal to a defendant's acquittal would be. Not Guilty verdicts can not be appealed in the United States. Why do you think OJ was so happpy?

    8. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by DeadSea · · Score: 2

      Damn that was moderated into oblivion. Where is the lose not loose guy to support me when I need it?

    9. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by ethereal · · Score: 1

      OK, I learned something today - I was going to argue with you, but after reading Findlaw for a few minutes I agree with you. For some reason I was thinking I'd seen an acquittal appealed by the government on Law & Order, but I guess either I was wrong, or perhaps they didn't fact-check that show too well :)

      --

      Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

    10. Re:No double jeopardy rules? by ccady · · Score: 1

      Please ignore my statement above. I was wrong about what "Double Jeopardy" means. In the UK and US it does indeed mean that a person who has been acquitted of a crime cannot have an appeal.

      --
      J'aime mieux les méchants que les imbéciles, parce qu'ils se reposent. -- Alexandre Dumas
  22. U.S. laws and stoned cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey better count his lucky stars it wasn't in the u.s.a.Everything is illegal here.Case in point, soon it will become illegal to operate a riding lawn mower without state vehicle registration and inspection, you will also be required to have an operators license due to it being a motor vehicle.
    What we really need is to require that the lawmakers and law enforcement, prison guards, cops, etc. be required to take a urinalysis for drugs at least once a week,which they, for some strange reason, are exempt from.With the laws they are passing these days, i'm wondering what kind of drugs they are on (and where i can get some),or,
    if they need to have some kind of monthly psychiatric screening.It's kind of scary that there are stoned cops out there with guns.

  23. T-Shirt by bjb · · Score: 1
    Damn.. so I guess this means that I'm no longer being rebellious by wearing my T-Shirt with the De-CSS code on it, eh?

    darnnit.

    --
    Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
    1. Re:T-Shirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it means you are being a DWEEB.

  24. Woot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subject line says it all!

  25. Supreme court? Not quite.... by The+Leather+Duke · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Ahem. The case wasn't held in the Norwegian supreme court, it was helt at the Oslo local court. It could be appealed by the MPAA first to the lagmannsrett, a court with a jury. Only after a decision there can the case (or usually only the sentence) be appealed to the supreme court.

    1. Re:Supreme court? Not quite.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >It could be appealed by the MPAA first to the
      >lagmannsrett

      No, MPAA can't do any such thing. This is a criminal case, not a civil one. Hence MPAA can't do anything.

  26. Not the supreme court by Crazy+Viking · · Score: 2, Informative
    Just want to point out that it is not the Norwegian Supreme Court that has made a ruling, just a regional court in Oslo. The Norwegian prosecutors (Økokrim or Economic Crime Unit) may still appeal to a higher court.

    Anyone who actually read the Aftenposten article will of course know this already.

    Also see the articles on CNN and The Register.

  27. could... by m1chael · · Score: 1

    the american government kidnap him and try him on DMCA home soil?

    --
    I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
    1. Re:could... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, don't be silly.

    2. Re:could... by Tim+C · · Score: 2

      Yes, they could, but diplomatically speaking that is an absolute no-no.

      No sovereign nation would accept that sort of behaviour from another, especially not an ally. So whilst yes, the US government could have him kidnapped, it would be an astoundingly foolish thing to do, and almost certainly against international law.

      True, the US is far more powerful than Norway, but assumning that Norway is a member of the EU (I confess to forgetting exactly what countries are and are not), the EU would probably be bound to assist them. Trade relations between the EU and the US aren't exactly wonderful at the moment, and the EU is big enough that the US couldn't simply ignore it.

      As you are aware, the US government is currently very keen to keep other countries at least tolerant of their stance against Iraq; the last thing it would want to do is turn its allies against itself. Politics, like most things, is all about give and take - "I'll support you in this, if you support me in that". Kidnapping Jon would not help their cause in other, more immediately important areas.

      Bottom line - yes, they could, but no, they won't.

    3. Re:could... by acb · · Score: 2

      In theory, he published code which affects American nationals (i.e. the movie companies, corporations being considered "persons" under law), and thus could be extradited. Norway won't hand him over, but he should be very careful about not catching any international flights which stop in US-controlled airports.

    4. Re:could... by yggdrazil · · Score: 1

      Norway is not a member of the EU, only halfway. Sort of like the way Puerto Rico is not a proper US state.

      We can't vote in European Parliament elections, our government have no seat in the European council of ministers, and we have no commissioners. Yet we have to implement all applicable EU law and directives. Norway is part of Schengen, the passport free zone in the EU. And we have the same legally protected rights to move, study and work anywhere we want in the EU as EU citizens have.

      (The fools who made people vote for this deal in the last EU membership referendum actually claimed it would give Norway more autonomy. This has clearly proved to be outright false.)

    5. Re:could... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the Peoples Corporate Democratic Republic of America. But the really scary part is that their citizens don't see it coming. They just keep on plowing though there days like good little Consumers only to go home at night and sit down in front of the TV like a junky religiously looks for a hit.

  28. It IS a victory, only a partial one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This ruling means that it is perfectly legal to bypass protections meant to prevent abuse of copyright (for a legit use, of course), in Norway.

    TO DO:
    - extend this ruling to the rest of the world
    - state that it is legal to bypass copy-protections to make copies allowed under fair use rights

  29. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY [OT] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neither the Labour Party nor any of the parties currently in the "regjering" are socialists nor capitalists. All are social domacrats, including Hoyre (self-claimed rightists), and this is, and have been the political system of Norway for the past decades.

  30. 2600? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm surprised nobody mentioned 2600's legal difficulties resulting from hyperlinkinbg to DECSS. Perhaps they can appeal and even counter sue now?

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    1. Re:2600? by DrunkenPenguin · · Score: 1

      ESR also links to DeCSS - although the link seems to work randomly (didn't work yesterday, today it was OK).
      ---

    2. Re:2600? by Tar-Palantir · · Score: 1

      This is a verdict in NORWAY! Not the United States. The 2600 ruling was in the courts of the US. How is a Norwegian verdict going to help them?

    3. Re:2600? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2600 is pretty fucked. In copyright law in the US, intent is very important. Lots and lots of people technically linked to deCSS. 2600 did it with the expressed intent of promoting the breakdown of intellectual property value. For that reason, they are fucked.

      The ruling judge said Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to break into the computer systems or data storage media in which it is located.

    4. Re:2600? by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 2

      Well, our dear legislators have such a hard-on for 'harmonizing copyright law', they might as well harmonize the courts too.

      --
      Dyolf Knip
    5. Re:2600? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the fuck does ridiculous drivel like this get modded as insightful? This isn't insightful at all, it's fucking stupid. God damn, it's almost as stupid as the fuck who modded it. Idiots!

    6. Re:2600? by /dev/trash · · Score: 2

      How? 2600 is based inthe US. This was a Norway court that ruled.

  31. changed shirts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was gonna wear a plain grey T-shirt today, but after reading this, on goes the copyleft no-DVD-CCA shirt!

  32. IN DEMOCRATIC AMERICA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your property owns YOU

  33. Re:FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    F*cking priceless indeed. It's not bad enough Metallica sold out 300,000 of its fans, now the Weegies want to prosecute teenagers for benign crimes. A law that should be disinvented.

  34. Participate in the CNN Quick Vote! by mijok · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's 90% "An act of intellectual freedom" vs. 10% "An act of theft" right now. Link

    --
    Karma. Moderation. Is my .sig good now?
  35. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by anonicon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Enjoy it while it lasts, Jon was found innocent because the laws in Norway haven't been updated to be in concert with the EUCD (Europe's DMCA), which Norway will have to be part of. Once the EUCD is implemented across Europe, his actions would be criminal and he would go to jail. FWIW, the American government is pushing hard for it to be implemented there. For more information on the EUCD, check out http://ukcdr.org/issues/eucd. For good examples of how the DMCA sucks, check out the EFF's unintended consequences list.

    Peace,
    Chuck

  36. Victory by E-Rock-23 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And somewhere, echoing through the mountains of Norway, the Hallilujia Chorus is heard...

    Score one for the good guys. This counts as a big win for Linux users, as we now have a case to cite. While that might not mean much here in the United States, it is a shininhg example that not all circumvention software is intended for use in pirating.

    It also marks a major slap in the face for the MPAA, who needs one at the moment. They've been throwing their weight around too much the last few years, and it's about time they got put in their place. Now, all we need is a similar precident here in the US, and our rights to do what we want (privately, of course) with things that we buy will be ever the slightest bit safer.

    I happen to have the DeCSS code (and no, I won't send it along, so don't ask). I haven't compiled it yet. I kept it around in the event that my DVD ROM would go to hell (which it did), so that I could boot into Linux and simply watch my DVDs. I wasn't going to rip them, burn them and ship them off to my friends. I was just going to watch them. Now, I happened upon a DVD player for free, so I really don't need it at the moment. It's just nice to have around, just in case.

    --
    Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
    1. Re:Victory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I happen to have the DeCSS code (and no, I won't send it along, so don't ask).

      ROFL, do you feel special dickhead? anyone can get hold of that. OMG u lamer

    2. Re:Victory by kcb93x · · Score: 1

      That it is, and in case someone ever writes a full-fledged program to view DVDs (a whole player program) except that you need a decryption runtime (this would get around the software itself being illegal...but you'd still need to find DeCSS or something like it) I've even got the Windows version (haven't used any of it..like you said, nice to have just in case)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:Victory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It also marks a major slap in the face for the MPAA, who needs one at the moment. [...]

      What the MPAA needs is at least a kick in the groin followed by a knockout punch.

  37. Wrong! by infolib · · Score: 3, Insightful

    since only two countries (Greece and Denmark) made the directive into a national law, it is no longer in effect.

    If you had actually read the Register story you would have noticed that "It's best to see this as a delay -rather than a derailment - of the controversial measures"

    The EUCD must still be implemented. Theoretically the member states who have not implemented this could be sued under the EU treaty (by the commission?) but since we are talking about all but two members this is not likely.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  38. Norway is not a member of the EU by Dusabre · · Score: 3, Informative

    Norway is not a member of the EU. The other nordic nations, that is Sweden, Finland and Denmark, are. European Union
    Norway is a member of Nato. Nato

    1. Re:Norway is not a member of the EU by krorvik · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, but, having made a treaty of economic cooperation with the EU, Norway is obligated to implement most EU laws, including EUCD.

  39. Can they appeal by maroberts · · Score: 2

    Johansen is accused of a criminal offence (otherwise probation and jail sentences would surely not be mentioned in the article, and the public prosecutor would not be involved) and double jeopardy must apply - or are there no such rules in Norway?

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:Can they appeal by catman · · Score: 1

      The question of guilt can be re-tried by a jury court. This local court is not technically a jury court, although two lay judges (or expert judges,
      in this case) can overrule the learned judge ..

      I'm glad the verdict is so thorough in its analysis. Of the EU countries, AFAIK only Denmark and Greece have actually enacted legislation a la DMCA, and there seems to be mounting resistance against the more draconian interpretations of the
      EUCD. This verdict will have a strong influence on the measures that will eventually be taken by the legislature.

    2. Re:Can they appeal by Crazy+Viking · · Score: 1
      double jeopardy must apply

      Johansen has been cleared of the charges against him in one of the lower courts. The question of guilt can be appealed to Lagmannsretten (a jury court) and finally to Høyesterett (the Supreme Court). As far as I know (corect me if I am wrong) double jeapordy means that a person can not be tried twice for the same crime. That does not apply here as it is different from an appeal.

      If the case is appealed to Lagmannsretten and eventually to Høyesterett and the verdict is not overturned, then double jeapordy would mean that he could not be tried again. However, I do not know whether Noregian law has an equivalent of double jeapordy.

  40. Hope still by infolib · · Score: 2

    this means that I'm no longer being rebellious by wearing my T-Shirt with the De-CSS code on it, eh?

    There's hope still ;-) As far as i can tell from your homepage you live in the United States. Last time I checked Norway was not one of those. Considering recent american policy, this could quickly change though...

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  41. Re:IN SOCIALIST NORWAY [OT] by The+Leather+Duke · · Score: 1

    Sure.

    Seen from the US every party on the left side of the Progress-party (FrP) is socialist. Even the conservatives. FrP is roughly equivalent to the Democrats and in Norway they represent the far right of the political spectrum.

    So he's right. We're mostly a bunch of friggin' socialists who gets to own what we buy.

  42. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know the laws in your country, but in Norway you get judged by the laws that are working at the moment you do something. The goverment can not pass any laws later and make you a criminal for what you have done when the law wasnt working.
    If Norway laws cet updated acording to the EUCD, and you have broken the EUCD before it was working in Norway, you will of course get judged by former Norwegian laws, not any new laws.

  43. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nope, no, nei, wrong, error!

    Norway does not have to implement any EU directives whatsoever. Why? Because they are not a member of the EU

  44. In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DVD exports to Norway become strangely affected by a 6 months delay; the reason still remains unknown.

  45. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by Pofy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ehhh, laws (normally) doesn't turn action illegal retroiactively. Only things done AFTER a law is introduced is affected by it.

  46. EU members by muyuubyou · · Score: 2

    I quite understand you're not sure about exactly what countries are and are not. For future reference:
    EU map

    Members are in yellow. In violet, the candidates. In dark violet, those about to enter.

    Don't count on Turkey entering any time soon - it's an islamic country and recently an islamic party took the government.

    As for Cyprus, the greek part was bound to enter, but having a turkish part they're gonna have it quite difficult.

    Schweiz/Suisse/Svitzera (Switzerland), Norge (Norway) and Ísland (Iceland) are quite european, regardless not having applied mainly for economical reasons. Their politics and social trends are european. (Swiss banking system is illegal in the EU ; Iceland and Norway may enter some time).

    1. Re:EU members by October_30th · · Score: 1
      Don't count on Turkey entering any time soon - it's an islamic country and recently an islamic party took the government.

      Really? And I thought the EU I am a citizen of was supposed to something more than just a whiteboys' all Christian club...

      What the hell does Islam have got to do with the EU membership anyway?

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    2. Re:EU members by muyuubyou · · Score: 2

      Really? And I thought the EU I am a citizen of was supposed to something more than just a whiteboys' all Christian club...

      Not that I like it, but that's how it is: governments within the EU are supposed to be laic. Society is a different thing.

      BTW as European Citizen myself, I'm concerned about fanatism and especially islamic fanatism. I consider myself rather agnostic/atheist but no doubt, in practice and right now, there is no religious fanatism like islamic fanatism.

      It's not the only one, but man it's unmatched at number and strength.

    3. Re:EU members by October_30th · · Score: 2
      there is no religious fanatism like islamic fanatism

      Yes, and does the Turkey's Islamic party and its supporters look and act like fanatics? No.

      Having a large, friendly Islamic nation enjoying the economic and political strength of the union on our eastern border certainly beats having a large sulking, economically and politically isolated and unstable Islamic nation there.

      Isolation and economic instability feeds radicalism which, at present, is not a problem in Turkey. Given a chance, we will start seeing rabid hordes of religious fanatics there as well and this time the fanatics will be right next to our border.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    4. Re:EU members by October_30th · · Score: 1
      But if Turkey joins then the fanatics will be right next to our border too.

      Uhhuh? And why have Syria and Iraq not attacked the Turkey so far then?

      Furthemore, with Turkey on the eastern border the potential for a cultural clash won't be that large as it would be between a radicalized Turkey and some eastern European Christian country.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    5. Re:EU members by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Norway may enter sometime IF their politicians are really ignorant about democracy. The people voted NO, ignoring that would take some deeply insane politicians.

      (Like in Denmark, where they just kept doing new referendums until people got so tired of voting NO that they didn't bother to go voting).

    6. Re:EU members by A+Gremlin+In+Kremlin · · Score: 1
      What the hell does Islam have got to do with the EU membership anyway?

      Human rights among many many other things. The culture is too different. This is nothing you can say out loud, but this is the reason.

      --
      bius sig file. This is a moebius sig file. This is a moe
  47. In Hollywood, USA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The movies watch YOU!

  48. Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do... by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article refers to "Norwegian laws that protect what a consumer can do with his or her own property."

    We need some laws like this in the United States.

    Laws that say "I bought it, I own it, it's MINE."

    More and more, corporations are attempting to retain control of their products after consumers have purchased them. This is not only unfair to consumers, it is profoundly contrary to the American tradition of property ownership.

    (And, yes, I understand the distinction between "purchasing" and "licensing." I object to the imposition of legal fictions that assumes "licensing" in situations where the commonsense reality is that the transaction is a purchase).

  49. Norway has NOT ratified new EU laws. by krorvik · · Score: 2, Informative

    Only Denmark and one other EU country has. So, under current interpretation, DeCSS is legal in Norway, as long as it is used for legal purposes. Using it for piracy is not.

    1. Re:Norway has NOT ratified new EU laws. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using cars for illigal purposes like murdering people is not legal either.

    2. Re:Norway has NOT ratified new EU laws. by Capt.+Mubbers · · Score: 1

      This is because Norway is not a member of the EU!

      --
      "Watch the skies, keep watching the skies"
    3. Re:Norway has NOT ratified new EU laws. by krorvik · · Score: 1

      Being Norwegian, I know we are not a member of the EU. Irrelevant, all the time Norway has signed a treaty (called EØS in Norway) , that basically forces us to follow EU directives anyway.

  50. This could open for legal DeCSS in the US by nordicfrost · · Score: 2

    The ruling in favor of Jon is only valid here in Norway, of course. But if this case opens for fair use copying and use of the keys to watch DVDs on other players than approved, this could make for legal non-DVD CCS players in the US.

    The reasoning is simple; laws and rulings allowed in similar countries are assumed to be legal in other countries. I.e. a legally vaild marriage made in Norway is also recoginised as valid in the US. And vice versa.

    Unless there are specific rules against the use of this program, it may be assumed legal in the US too, since the Norwegian legal system approves of it. (Well, not completly and not yet.)

    This argument gets stronger if the Norwegian court has used the same basic arguments that a US court could have used. We are talking about the right to watch a DVD on any player you like and I'm sure there are rulings in the US that can back this verdict in the district court.

  51. Congrats to Jon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thankfully there is still some common sense left in the world. Of COURSE one can do what they want with their own property, thats a given. If I pay for the damn DVD its mine to do with what I want. Screw you Hollywood, RIAA, and Microsoft.

  52. Overturning-the-EUCD-HOWTO by infolib · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since a lot of posts in this thread are about the European Copyright Directive (EUCD) I would like to give a brief summary:

    The EUCD has been passed. This means that the member states must implement it in their national legislation. They should have done so by Dec 22 '02 but only Denmark and Greece made it. Status reports here. Norway's not a member of the EU.

    The EUCD can be overturned in two ways:
    1. In the European Court.
    This means that somebody challenges the directive for being invalid under the EU treaty. It could be.
    It's hard to get a case before the European Court, so this would probably need backing by one of the member states. This is being looked into, but it's not easy.

    2. Through normal legislative process.
    The EUCD article 12(1) states that "Not later than 22 December 2004" the Commission shall report on the application of the directive. Regarding article 6 (The bad one) "it shall examine in particular whether that Article confers a sufficient level of protection and whether acts which are permitted by law are being adversely affected by the use of effective technological measures [DRM]. Where necessary, in particular to ensure the functioning of the internal market ... it shall submit proposals for amendments to this Directive."

    We definitely do intend to influence that report and have article 6 amended, but the entertainment industry is doing the same, so this isn't easy either.
    On the other hand the directive was forged with very little public attention to article 6, so nearly all attention on the case would be in our favour.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
    1. Re:Overturning-the-EUCD-HOWTO by yggdrazil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Norway is not a member of the EU, but we are a member of the European common market through the EEA agreement. The EEA agreement commits Norway to implement all applicable EU law into its own without delay. Norway implements EU law into its own faster than any of the other 18 EU and EEA countries.

      But we have no influence on EU law, and can't vote for representaties which may influence the process. It's stupid, but that's what you get with a EU-ignorant population and a referendum.

      Read-only laws, we have no write permission. Activists which are EU citizens will have to try to change the EUCD for us, through their elected representatives.

  53. If a thief farts and noones there.... by nhavar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If a thief breaks into your home and steals your CD/DVD collection should it be the MPAA/RIAA that files the report with the police. After all it's the MPAA/RIAA property that you are just licensing. Should it not then be their responsibility to replace your media since you still license it.

    --
    "Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
    1. Re:If a thief farts and noones there.... by nhavar · · Score: 2

      If the thief is stealing music/movies then he's automatically elevated to 'pirate' status.

      'I am de dwed piwate woberts!'

      --
      "Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
    2. Re:If a thief farts and noones there.... by StevenMaurer · · Score: 3, Funny

      The MPAA/RIAA would love this interpretation of the law.

      That way, they'd never file a report, and you'd have to buy your CD collection all over again.

      No thanks.

  54. Check Yourself by Myriad · · Score: 2, Offtopic
    There is no such thing as a "loosing side". There is such a thing as a "losing side".
    Perhaps you were confused becouse "lose" is related to "loss" and "lost", each which has one 'o' and "loose" (as in your mother) rhymes with "caboose", "moose", and "goose". The only exception to this excellent rule of thumb is "choose". It isn't spelled with one 'o', is that "chose" is already a word.

    Perhaps you should run your own spell checker before submitting a criticism of another. It's a good practice, because if you don't you may look a little foolish.

    --
    "They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
    1. Re:Check Yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ooooh, nothing like out-smartassing a smartass, is there? :)

    2. Re:Check Yourself by mmol_6453 · · Score: 2

      Are you a moderator?! Wow! I've never seen one post before.

      But seriously, he was trying to be funny. There's a difference of only a couple of bits between being considered funny or offtopic.

      --
      What's this Submit thingy do?
  55. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Alomex · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article refers to "Norwegian laws that protect what a consumer can do with his or her own property."

    We need some laws like this in the United States.


    Actually they do exist, hence the need for DMCA to turn them back. About a decade ago, a publishing executive told me they had never prosecuted people who photocopy books because lawyers had adviced them that property rights in the US likely allowed you to do so, and even to sell those copies so long as you didn't profit. "the last thing we need is a legal ruling making it official and unambiguously legal".

    He also mentioned that in most other countries this would not be the case, but that "the US has one of the strongest personal property laws out there".

  56. The Axis of Evil is expanding by hysterion · · Score: 4, Funny
    First Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea.

    Now Norway.

    Is Massachusetts next? This is scary.

    1. Re:The Axis of Evil is expanding by ethereal · · Score: 1

      How about Virginia?

      --

      Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

  57. HTML version by infolib · · Score: 2
    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  58. where's the problem by geoff+lane · · Score: 2

    as every dvd player ever sold "decrypts" the dvd in order to show the images, how can anyone be accused of doing exactly what is supposed to happen?

    if some people are so stupid as to miss use the keys they were allocated, leaving the data open for anybody who bothers to look for it, that's their problem, not some kid across the world's.

    1. Re:where's the problem by Sloppy · · Score: 2
      as every dvd player ever sold "decrypts" the dvd in order to show the images, how can anyone be accused of doing exactly what is supposed to happen?
      This is one of the subtle aspects of the DeCSS/DMCA situation in USA. DMCA defines circumvention as bypassing the technological measure without authorization from the copyright holder. Common sense is that after you buy a DVD, you either have authorization or you don't. So if using DeCSS is a crime, then watching a CSS-protected DVD on a licensed DVD player is also a crime. (After all, it was the manufacturer of the DVD player that bought a license, not the consumer.)

      The only way to reconcile it so that DeCSS is illegal and playing a DVD on a licensed player is legal, is if that "authorization" is highly conditional. As in,

      You are authorized to play our movie on equipment manufactured by a third party who has made a certain agreement with a certain other third party, DVDCCA. Any other use is unauthorized.
      Of course, you won't see any wording resembling that on any DVD for sale today. Not even in the "FBI warning."

      Which means that the terms of authorization (permission granted to a consumer by the movie studio) is not only both weird and complex and conditional on other third-party agreements that involve neither the copyright holder nor the consumer, but also secret! There is no way a consumer can possibly know whether they are breaking the law or not, unless they somehow get explicit permission in writing for every DVD they rent or buy.

      Maybe everyone who watches CSS-protected DVDs really is a criminal, and it's just being selectively enforced. (Yadda yadda Ayn Rand quote yadda yadda.)

      This is, of course, ludicrous. The DMCA situation is a mess and it's really a travesty that Kaplan treated it like a real law.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  59. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by catman · · Score: 1

    Norway does not have to implement any EU directives whatsoever. Why? Because they are not a member of the EU

    No - but it is a member of the European Economic Zone, or whatever its name- EØS - which forces us to comply with most of the EU directives. Sad but true - we chose to stay out of the EU, getting no rights, but signed an agreement giving us most of the duties. Stupid ...

  60. Norway is NOT a member of the EU!!! by Junnonen · · Score: 1

    Thursday.

    1. Re:Norway is NOT a member of the EU!!! by yggdrazil · · Score: 1

      Correct. But Norway is member of the EEA, and thus has to implement all applicable EU directives without delay.

  61. What about the Pentavorette? by Kones · · Score: 0

    They may have gotten it past the Tingrett, but it'll never get past the Pentavorette, the Colonel with his wee beady eyes . . . ooh, you'll eat my chicken!

    --
    Wouldn't you like to be a pepper, too?
  62. Minor addition by infolib · · Score: 2

    Regarding option 2:
    Even after amending the directive, the national may not change "back" to "good" laws. They may be forced to, depending on the amendments, but in any case, some lobbying on the national level would be necessary. The result could be very uneven laws across the EU.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  63. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by den_erpel · · Score: 3, Informative

    AFAIK Norway is not a part of the EU, so they do not have to adjust their laws an accordance of the EU.

    They might implement it (in this case, I don't see why they should), but they certainly don't have to by any treaty.

    --
    Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, "Today I will be brilliant."
  64. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by Drachemorder · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's true in America as well. The Constitution specifically forbids ex post facto laws, meaning that you can't pass a law and then convict people of breaking it before it was enacted.

  65. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by misterpies · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even if Norway were in the EU, Jon couldn't go to jail -- EU law is purely civil, not criminal. So the most he'd be faced with is a whopping fine.

    --
    The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
  66. Regarding the correction / update by avel599 · · Score: 1
    Update: 01/07 14:02 GMT by T: Reader Torstein Grotnes writes with a correction: ...

    How come this one gets corrected, yet all these perfectly FALSE troll-stories end up on the front page?

    Just wondering...

  67. More on the verdict by pere · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I heard the verdict live on norwegian radio today. I havent read the statement yet, so the quotes might not be 100 percent accurate.

    First two comments.
    * The verdict can be appealed to "Lagmannsretten" (one step below Supreme Court) within two weeks. No statements yet in Norwegian media whether they will do that, but at least one legal expert "guessed" that they will not. The prosecutor (ØkoKrim - "Economical Chrime") will decide if they shall appeal, not MPAA!

    * Norway have not yet implemented the European Unions directive on copyright, but they will probably do it soon.

    Here is what I found interesting and amusing:
    The law they used is mainly about "breaking in" og "gaining access" to "stuff" that is not yours and that is protected. The original law is very old, but was changed (about 20 years ago?) to include digital information.

    Tha court mainly states that you cannot be convicted for breaking into something that is yours. (If you choose to break into your own car that is your prioblem, not the courts).

    It also states that the methods used for breaking into something (it specifically addresses "reverse engineering"-techics") isnt unlawful in themselves. They are just unlawful if you are not entitled to the information the protection is protecting.

    The next issue was that the keys themselves could be looked at as the information that was protected (not the content of the DVD). This is slightly more tricky, but firstly the judge said that the first key was not protected at all (this is clearly not breaking into anythin). Then she said that since the "real data" here is the movie, and that since he has the right to look at the movie, gaining access to the keys that protected this infomation could be not be regarding as unlawful.

    The last point was whether the reason wasnt looking at the DVD, but to illegally copy DVDs. Several examples for "real life" was used here. It seems clear that you cannot the held accountable (in Norwegian law) if you sell/distribute goods with an legal appliance, even if it is used illegally. (If you sell an axe, you are not responsible if someone uses the axe for murder). There is however legal precedence stating if you know that the intent is clearly illegal, you can be hold accountable, even if the goods in themself is lega. The judge used an example from Supreme Court where a person was convicted for selling equipment for destilling alcohol. He was clearly aware that it was used for illegal purposed, but claimed that each part for legal to sell.

    This means that if Johansen distributed/sold/developed deCSS when he knew that the main reason for this was to illegally copy DVDs, he could be convicted for that. Johansen claimed that his main reason was developing a Linux DVD player.

    The judge referred several IRC-logs, where Johansen made statements like "Linux sucks", "I wish that all Linux fanatics would be shot" and "FreeBSD rulez" (and an e-mail where he states that Linux is a very good OS, but FreeBSD is better). (Several in the courtroom started to laugh at this time, and the judge had to tell them to be silent). She also mentioned that he didnt have Linux installed at at the time, and that the only thing he developed was a GUI for Windows. However, the court did not find it proved - beyond reasonable doubt - the Johansens main reason was to develop programs that could be used illegally. He terefore falls in the same category as thos selling/distributing goods that can both be used legally and illegally.

    And as you all know: not guilty.

    1. Re:More on the verdict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's think about it some more...

      Norway isn't in the EU, hence it does not have to implement an external piece of Law like the EUCD, yet everyone ends up talking about this very point.

      DVD Jon was sued for "breaking into" his own property, the prosecutor basically accused him of forcing a lock that did not belong to him, which the Media Corps have placed on DVD Jon's property.

      How come he actually went to court ? Norway does not have any Law that resemble the US' DMCA, so on what arguments was the judge convinced to take the case ? Why was it not dismissed and mocked upon by whoever took the plaintiff's declaration ?
      "Mr Officer, this person forced the lock I had put on his car so he could drive it, he damaged my lock, boohoo!"
      Why do people tolerate "protection means" that prevent fair use and illegal use along ?

      Because of you slashbots. Yes, you, though only partly. And because of everyone else who's helping the Media Cartel into forcing onto the World+Dog the following falsehoods:
      - that you should ask to yourself "Is it OK?" before making any copy of anything
      - that _you_ should care about the authors' retribution. This is the editor's job, not yours. There is no God's Edict that states every author should be retributed for his work. Authors and their editors should just try to get money by use of market laws, and not expect it as if it were some fscking Constitutional Right.

      If you feel a strong disagreement with one of the previous, then you're an active part of the scheme, whether you're a member of the MPAA and affiliated, or a victim of their propaganda. I suggest you go to the least computer-litterate person you know of, and ask of his/her opinion on the subject. On, i.e., Jack Valenti's claim that since advertisers pay for eyeball time, they should expect it from TV viewers, or just about any recent IP issue discussed here on Slashdot.

      The Copyright Laws exist to promote distribution. Getting money out of this distribution is not and should not be protected by special laws out of those that apply to any business. Making money on content distribution is a job just like many others out there. Copyrights don't hold value intrinsically (of course the WIPO and Media Cartel say otherwise) and a few years back patents and copy rights were not counted as assets in companies' balance sheets. The only value you can add to content comes through careful marketting and addressing customers' demand.

      This certainly seems radical to most, if not all, of you, as you've probably all been thinking and rethinking about "content's value" when discussing IP issues. It might even be dubbed "heretic" by the Great IP Inquisition of the RIAA/MPAA that is growing in Hollywood. But ask this to yourself : since when did you start thinking of media content -not just the copy rights- as something with an intrinsic value ? Did you think this, in 1960 ?

      "But what about the artists' strain and efforts ?" you're probably asking. That's no different than any other worker's strain and efforts converting to money only through the rules of Offer and Demand. The Media Cartel is acting like a bicycle-maker that would demand laws to make bicycle resale illegal, to make bicycle use limited to the owner^H^H^H^H^Hbuyer of the bicycle License, to deem illegal the forcing of a lock (even on your property), to make all bicycle locks networked to some Lock-Opening Authorisation Center...

      And everyone just accepted this state of things ?

      Through lengthy discussions about IP on Slashdot you've learnt the Media Lesson quite deeply. You're playing the same game as them, along their own rules. Snap out of it !

  68. How long? by 311Stylee · · Score: 1

    How many productive years of this poor kid's life have been wasted fighting these morons? I feel bad for all the crap he has had to go through, when he seems to be capable of producing good things in terms of software...

    The article said he was 16 when the whole thing started (and of course i remembered), but what is his age now?

    1. Re:How long? by marpheus · · Score: 1

      If you read the verdict (might be difficult if you're not scandinavian though) you can see he has a monthly income of NOK 35000 (~USD 5000) at 19 years of age. Don't think he would have gotten that without all this fuss... And now he's free. I don't feel sorry for him at all ;)

  69. What's all the hubbub.....bub by filmcritic · · Score: 0, Troll

    This means nothing to the law abiding US citizen. All it means is that the Norwegian courts are out of their minds. Don't even think the lawyers here will give up because they will not. Everyone knows that his little program was specifically written to rip DVD content so that it could be copied elsewhere. And don't give us that standard line of horseshit about doing what you want with your stuff either. If he wanted to watch his little DVD, he could use a set-top box like 99% of the public or use Windows, like 99% of the public. It's not as though there isn't an easy method of viewing DVDs.

    Get over your bullshit attitude about stealing every piece of electronic media. Just because it's electronic or digital does not mean it's yours for the taking. Remember - in the real world, we pay for the things we own because that is how things work. We also don't give a shit that we legally cannot make 25 copies of Spider-man to give out to our friends. We just pay the nice man at the register $15 and walk out. Just WAIT until all you little college kiddies get out of school...wait until you have to pay back the $50,000 it cost. Wait! Here's a suggestion: because obviously everything you learned in college isn't useful, just tell the bank you will only pay them for the parts you found useful. Then college will only cost $1000...fuck them! Go ahead, try it!!! I bet it would work...why not...it always works in the slashdot/linux world.

    Linux is dead in less than 3 years - an afterthought on a page of history.

    1. Re:What's all the hubbub.....bub by Des+Herriott · · Score: 2

      Not sure if you're trolling or just dismally stupid (or both!), but:

      You don't need to decrypt a DVD to copy it. What decryption allows you to do is 1) play DVD's on hardware not licensed by the DVD-CCA, and 2) circumvent region restrictions. In other words, to play DVD's which you have purchased on hardware which you own.

      As for the second paragraph of your post, it's irrelevant, rambling nonsense.

    2. Re:What's all the hubbub.....bub by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      ROTFL.

      Really, dude... get a grip.

      Firstly, all that "his little program" was, was a GUI for decss. Someone else wrote decss.

      Secondly, he already DID "use Windows" - the program in question was a Windows program.

      Personally, I think it's perfectly reasonable that those that do not use Windows wish to view DVDs - not just Linux, but any of the free OSes. In the real world, "fair use" has long been a right. That is how things work.

      Oh, and I'm out of college, thanks. No fees to pay, even.

      And no, I don't even use Linux.

    3. Re:What's all the hubbub.....bub by Petronius · · Score: 1


      > If he wanted to watch his little DVD, he could use...

      He's a free man, he can do anything he wants with his DVD, as long as it's legal. Which it was. End of story.

      > Get over your bullshit attitude...

      Take a deep breath.

      > Linux is dead...

      Au contraire, mon frère!

      --
      there's no place like ~
  70. Interesting point in the reasoning for the verdict by igomaniac · · Score: 1
    There are two interesting points in the reasoning for the verdict, the first is that he was accused of being an accessory to theft (piracy) by making DeCSS available. The court applied a law that says you cannot be an accessory to a crime if you sell or give away something which can both be used for legal or illegal purposes (like a knife). The court deemed that DeCSS was a useful tool that could be used legally for people who wanted to play their DVDs under Linux, so Jon could not be convicted of being an accessory to theft.

    The second is whether reverse-enginering is considered breaking copy-protection. The court ruled that translating source code into binary form did not in itself count as protecting it, because there are other good reasons for distributing binaries (although I'm sure some OSS advocates think differently ;-) besides protecting the source code. Thus reverse engineering the source code from the object code could not be considered breaking any protection.

    --

    The interactive way to Go -- http://www.playgo.to/iwtg/en/
  71. In other news, by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    President George W. has suddenly announced a shift of his priorities towards the axis of evil.
    We have to take down those evil plunderers that operate in Norway; their court system has been subverted by pirate interests, and it is vital for the people of the United States of America that their court system be brought back into line
    1. Re:In other news, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The President also made some remarks about how he would bomb Norway back into the ice-age if DVD-Jon wasn't handed over to a US court.

    2. Re:In other news, by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      (reposted - slightly upgraded, account some asshole moron american moderator who obviously votes republican moderated it as flamebait)

      President George W. has suddenly announced a shift of his priorities towards the axis of evil.

      We have to take down those evil plunderers that operate in Norway; their court system has been subverted by pirate interests, and it is vital for the people of the United States of America that their court system be brought back into line.
      Over the years, we have endeavoured hard to establish a system of movie studios that spew forth endless amount of low-cost propaganda that, when fed to the gullible masses of unamerican people abroad, makes them establish a preference for the american way of life, enabling us to slowly subvert those other countries so they will toe our line of global domination.
      If the accessory revenue stream generated by such a subverting entreprise would be curtailed, like by means where private studio intellectual could be pirated or just even fairly used, the cost of such subversion would have to be borne by the American taxpayer, and as a firm believer in the non-existence of ths State to protect the right of the rich to profit, pillage and plunder, I cannot have this happenning.
    3. Re:In other news, by __fastcall · · Score: 1

      When the two of you finish your degree from Harvard, then you have earned the right to criticize the leader of the free world.

      Until then, shut the fuck up.

      --


      404 File Not Found
      The requested URL (sig) was not found.
    4. Re:In other news, by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      When the two of you finish your degree from Harvard, then you have earned the right to criticize the leader of the free world.
      Until then, shut the fuck up.
      You fucking fascist nazi. The idea of democracy is that EVERYONE IS EQUAL, no matter if they went to harvard or not.

      Asshole.

    5. Re:In other news, by __fastcall · · Score: 1


      You fucking fascist nazi. The idea of democracy is that EVERYONE IS EQUAL, no matter if they went to harvard or not.
      As usual, you missed the point.

      My post had NOTHING to do with the fact that President Bush is *better* than anyone else. What you were intended to receive from my post was that he paid his dues at an institution of higher learning, which prides itself on being difficult. If you have already accomplished that task

      Now just between you and me, I'll let you in on this little secret: If everyone were equal, then we would all have as many fine women hanging around us as Ron Jeremy.

      --


      404 File Not Found
      The requested URL (sig) was not found.
    6. Re:In other news, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm...If todays USA is what Harvard defines as "the free world", or Dubya is the icon of the intergrity and inscrutinability that this particular institution produces, then maybe it's time to look into making Port Royal Community College the new standard of "Ivy League".
      Why you perceive an Harvard education as _more_ difficult than other universities, say Oxford in the UK or IMD in Switzerland to name a few, eludes me. Unless "the free world" only extends to what ESPN covers on monday nite.
      Ofcourse you need to realize that there is a world beyond CNN and "smart-bomb-targets" to see that.
      Nutter.

      E.S.
      Forgot my login...long time since last post...
      P.S. Port Royal is the Capital city of Jamaica...and home of the Atomic Bong...to paraphrase Robin Williams.

  72. Just wait... by JJ22 · · Score: 1

    ...it won't be long before Hollywood comes out with "DVD Jon: the Movie".

  73. Translation of certain excerpts by Kjella · · Score: 2

    ...closely following those in Norwegian here with my comments as well. Of course as most have noted, this is only the first legal trial and can be appealed, and I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecution appeals directly to the Supreme court. This is because it's very much about the legal interpretations of the laws, as the facts are very much clear. Given the same definitions as presented here, I'm sure another test of the case itself would lead to the same conclusion

    "Access to the movie:
    The court finds that the one who buys a DVD movie that is produced in a legal manner, has authorized access to watch the movie. The case would be different if the DVD movie has been produced in violation of copyright law. The owner of a pirate copy is thus not legally entitled to see the movie."

    Pretty basic, but establishes that I have a *right* to see the movie, which is far more than simply not being illegal. That goes a long way, because in order to have that right, the DVD must be decoded.

    "As previously mentioned (yadda yadda about various laws, things like fair use and personal copies). There will be different opinions about how beneficial (being able to DeCSS a movie) is to society, but that this is legal must from this be clear. The court therefore finds that DeCSS has legal as well as illegal uses."

    The core of the case. They state that there exist legal uses secured in law. Also it establishes a rather nice cause and effect that I like. Since those rights are secured by law, I can. Could be grounds for a battle after EUCD is introduced into law, if these paragraphs are still around, do they take precedence over any DMCAish paragraphs? Film at 11.

    Essencially it goes downhill from the prosecution from here. As the only illegal use would be to decrypt an already illegal copy (that is, 1:1 pirate copies like found in Asia), they have no proof of any such activity.

    This paragraph is a gem though:

    "...the court finds it not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Johansen's intent with the development and publishing of the program was to contribute to illegal copying and distribution of DVD movies.

    The court is after this arrived at the conclusion that Johansen can not be sentenced for accessory to (obtain unauthorized access) to the movies. This is true even if Johansen was aware that the program could be misused. This will be equally valid for everyone trading in goods that can be used legally as well as illegally.

    That one is very important. If I create a decryption algorithm for anything else, even with the best of intentions, I'll know that it can be misused. But that's not illegal, at least not just yet.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  74. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by beef3k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And for a teenager with little or no money, a "whopping fine" would be equal to a looong sentence indeed.

  75. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... except the EUCD is something sovreign states agree to implement individually as part of their criminal law code. With jail terms.

    So breaching the EUCD in a country that has implemented it CAN result in jailtime.

  76. Go fsck yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't buy A set-top box, I'd have to buy SEVEN. I travel a lot.

    You're a goddamn dummy.

  77. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Sodium+Attack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually they do exist, hence the need for DMCA to turn them back. About a decade ago, a publishing executive told me they had never prosecuted people who photocopy books because lawyers had adviced them that property rights in the US likely allowed you to do so, and even to sell those copies so long as you didn't profit.

    Not very likely. Although whether one is profiting from copying does have some bearing on whether copying falls into the "fair use" exception to copyright, it is not the only thing considered. Copying entire books and selling them is almost certainly not fair use and thus illegal (if the book is copyrighted and you do not have permission of the copyright owner) even if you do not profit from it.

    There could be a number of other reasons why the publisher doesn't sue--most likely, because someone making and selling a handful of copies doesn't dent the publisher's profits enough to make it worth the cost of sending lawyers after the person doing the copying. If some organization were making and selling thousands of unauthorized copies--even if they were doing it without profit--you can bet the legitimate publisher would go after them, and the publisher would win, too.

    Also, keep in mind that unlike trademarks, copyrights can be selectively enforced without diluting the copyright--if they choose not to prosecute some copyright violations, it does not affect their copyright.

    IANAIPLBIDWWTOARB. (I am not an intellectual property lawyer but I do work with them on a regular basis.)

    --

    Never take moderation advice from sigs, including this one.

  78. No, and yes by Kjella · · Score: 2

    The EUCD has been passed. This means that the member states must implement it in their national legislation. They should have done so by Dec 22 '02 but only Denmark and Greece made it. Status reports here. [wiki.ael.be] Norway's not a member of the EU.

    We in Norway are not part of EU, but unless we veto it (about 0.0000% chance of happening) we must incorporate it into law as well due to the EEC (European Economic Cooperation)-agreement. Most likely it'll be in place sometime during 2003 last I read :(

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:No, and yes by infolib · · Score: 2

      unless we veto it (about 0.0000% chance of happening)

      You disappointed me there. At first glance i read that as 0.00002%...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  79. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Alomex · · Score: 3, Insightful



    Call me weird, but I'll take the publisher's executive word over you comments, in the abscence of any evidence to the contrary....

  80. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by Zemran · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You assume that the EUCD will become law... Although effected by business most European governments are democracies (unlike the US where only the super rich and big business run the country) and the same pressures do not work. I accept that Blair is too busy bending over for Bush to consider not doing as asked but Europe is much bigger than one country.

    --
    I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
  81. Acquitted of burgling his own house by pchown · · Score: 1

    Not knowing Norwegian law, I'm shooting in the dark a bit. However, as Jon was charged with hacking a machine which he owned, it seems kind of like being charged with burgling your own house.

    In democracies there are checks and balances that are supposed to derail farcical cases like this before they get to a proper court. It's quite scary that they didn't operate in this case.

    I don't know the situation in Norway; in Britain we have the ability to stick the prosecution with all the defence costs when something like this happens. I really, really hope it happened to them.

    Also it might be argued that it was a malicious prosecution, brought for the purposes of harassment rather than because there was a realistic chance of a conviction. This can lead to damages too. Occasionally the damages are punitive, and very large, if for example the malicious prosecution resulted from the misuse of a public office.

  82. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Sodium+Attack · · Score: 2

    Well, I certainly can't blame you for that, especially considering that I'm just some anonymous poster who claims he knows something about copyright law.

    But if you're planning on actually copying books and selling them, I'd recommend you take neither my word nor that of the publishing executive, and check with a laywer first.

    --

    Never take moderation advice from sigs, including this one.

  83. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by LarsG · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, yup, ja, right, correct!

    Sorry that I have to tell you this, but Norway's deal with EU through the EEC deal force Norway to implement a lot of EU directives - including the EUCD.

    The Norwegian Department of Culture is expected to release a law proposal in february. If you want to do something about it, join Electronic Frontier Norway.

    --
    If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
  84. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Arithmetic according to C: float x = 3.14159; float y = 1/2 * x; Value of y? zero.

    Your sig is dubious and shows that you do not understand the type promotion rules of C-style languages. Maybe you should try:

    float y = 0.5 * x

    or if doing that division in your head is too difficult and you are insistent on incurring the cost of a floating point division:

    float y = 1./2. * x

    Apparently you would have all intermediate integer operations computed using floating point. Of course, this would kill C's performance ... perhaps you are one of those Java advocates still pissed that C runs circles around it performance wise and this is your "clever" attempt at sabotage.

  85. Spilling coffee on herself by YorkshireONE · · Score: 1

    was a karma hit for being a customer at McD's.

    A womens best friend is a mans imagination.

  86. Information doesn't want to be free by commodoresloat · · Score: 2

    Informed people want to be free.

  87. Not a bigh shock by Black+Copter+Control · · Score: 2
    It kinda seemed to me that, doing this such a long time after the event, and with Jon having been so pleasantly recieved by the Norwegian parliment, one of the reasons to charge him might have been simply to get the friggin RIAA off of their backs.

    It is, however, unpleasant that Norway has introduced a version of the DMCA. Perhaps Jon can work to keep it from being passed.

    --
    OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
  88. So... the conclusion is... by (insert+nick+here) · · Score: 1

    ...that we'll have to circumwent as many copyright mechanisms as possible before the law is implemented...

    Does someone have a queue of protocols/formats suited for reverse engineering?

  89. The GUI was vitally important to the case by yerricde · · Score: 2, Informative

    [Jon] never wrote DeCSS, he merely wrote a GUI.

    Actually, the fact that he did write a GUI is highly relevant, at least to the MPAA v. 2600 ruling. The DMCA's "circumvention device" provisions (17 USC 1201(a)(2) and (b)) are entirely about how the device is packaged and marketed. The tool was supposed to be a proof of concept for one component of an independent software DVD player on the Linux platform, but because the Linux UDF support wasn't finished, he wrote the GUI on Windows rather than Linux, and the most obvious use for DeCSS on windows was to decrypt VOB files for copying rather than for playback. He should have waited until Linux had working UDF and some other components of a player such as an MPEG-2 decoder, an AC-3 decoder, and a menu bytecode interpreter before releasing the DeCSS component for that player; such a delay would have rendered 2600's "reverse engineering for interoperability" defense stronger.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  90. EUCD and Norway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A page tell us about the status of EUCD in europe

    http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/EUCD-Status

    and has some information about Norway

    Norway is not an EU member state.
    It is however a member of the EEC and thus has to implement the EUCD.

    * Status : Draft legislation expected in february 2003. Implementation expected to happen during summer 2003. Draft legislation will be available here

  91. No evidence of piracy? by geekee · · Score: 2

    "The court ruled there was "no evidence" that either Johansen or others had used the decryption code (called DeCSS) for illegal purposes. Johansen therefore couldn't be convicted on such grounds, nor for acting as an accessory to other alleged illegal activity, wrote judge Irene Sogn in the court's ruling."

    The prosecution must have really sucked. People routinely use DeCSS to decrypt dvd's, convert the content to lower quality video, and burn onto a cd-rom or share on p2p networks. Probably difficult to actually find someone doing this given the anonymous nature of the internet however. Impossible to get an ISP to give up the name of a violator.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
    1. Re:No evidence of piracy? by boffer · · Score: 1

      But even so, it couldn't be proved that he did it to pirate DVD's. He simply made it possible to watch legally purchased DVD's on legally purchased equipment.

  92. Hopefully helpful by tuba_dude · · Score: 1

    About the coffee warmers, you're close enough. I've usually heard it as 'hotplates,' but it probably varies between regions.

    --
    "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
  93. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IANAIPLBIDWWTOARB. (I am not an intellectual property lawyer but I do work with them on a regular basis.)

    ITTYAMTPOUA (I think that you are missing the point of using acronyms) :)

  94. Bananas? by yerricde · · Score: 1

    And somewhere, echoing through the mountains of Norway, the [Hallelujah] Chorus is heard...

    Either that, or Yes! We have no bananas!

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  95. Reality check by A+US+DVD+Consumer · · Score: 1
    Either you are trying to start a flamewar, or you really are incredibly ignorant. First of all, the masses accept whatever they are given because most of them don't know the deeper issues at hand, such as the draconian DMCA's component that restricts the ability to talk about a protection technology. If the masses knew that detail about the DMCA, more "average" people would question its validity. That part of the DMCA would get thrown out if it went to the supreme court because it volates free speech-which is a fundamental value in the United States constitution, and the supreme court tends to favor free speech because it is a fundamental value in the United States. Funny how the RIAA and MPAA say they are anti-censorship, but then the DMCA passes which IS censorship.

    Right now copyright holders are battling consumers over the issue of what they can or cannot do with corporate products, but the pendulum swings both ways and currently corporations, such as the MPAA have the upper hand, but fortunately, for those of us who THINK, well-intentioned, intelligent, organizations such as Electronic Frontier Foundation (which is currently successfully fighting Hollywood about the silly "stealing tv" argument by timeshifting out commercials) are out to make sure that everything is balanced and not skewed so that corporations can simply say "my way or the highway." As far as the MPAA is concerned, you have no "fair use" rights at all, but as the digital age becomes more prevalent, all of these issues will solidify-in a way that balances the needs of corporations as well as the consumers who buy those products. If you hadn't said "Linux is dead in less than 3 years..." and try to pass that as a critique with no basis in facts, but instead that comment simply shows you are a uninformed, uneducated troll and nothing more.

  96. I hate to be a bitch, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Jon Johansen, the author of DeCSS, ..."

    He wasn't really the author, he just programmed the GUI. The reason why he's charged, is because he's the only one who stood forward and admitted that he had something to do with the reverse-engineering. He wrote the front end to DeCSS in Visual Basic.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not jealous or anything, but I believe the real credits belong to the guys who really did the great work.

    -$|{

  97. The verdict in English (quick amateur translation) by Avakado · · Score: 1

    Verdict: Jon Lech Johansen, born November 18, 1983, lives in Agmond Boltsvei 62. He is unmarried and has no children. He works as software developer and earns NOK 35 000 gross per month. He has no fortune. By charges presented by the Norwegian economic crime unit's state attorney member the 10th of May 2002, changed under the main negotiations, is he placed under charges at Oslo district court for violation of The criminal law 145 second by third and fourth phrase For by unrightfully having broken a protection or by similar means having unrightfully acquired access to data that is stored or transferred electronically or by other technical means and by having caused damage by acquiring or using such unrightful knowledge or by having aided this. The basis is the following chain of events or cooperation in this In the period September 1999 to 24th of January 2000, via Internet from residence in Lardal, Jon Lech Johansen participated in the breaking of the technical protection system Content Scrambling System ("CSS"), licensed by DVD Copy Control Association Inc, to protect DVD-movies produced by Motion Pictures Association against copying. A DVD-movie is a movie that is stored electronically on a DVD-disc. Based on knowledge about a secret algorithm and player keys incorporated into CSS, did Jon Lech Johansen make the Windows program DeCSS. By using DeCSS an unencrypted copy of the DVD-film is produced. Jon Lech Johansen used DeCSS on his own DVD-movies, and he spread DeCSS several times in different versions via Internet in the said period. By the described circumstances Jon Lech Johansen acquired unrightful access to the secret key repository in CSS. Further did Jon Lech Johansen break the copy protection on the DVD-movies and acquired himself and others access to the DVD-discs in an unprotected condition. The access was unrightful because the DVD-movies were sold with the condition that the user would utilize authorized playback equipment and respect the copy protection. The acquiring of the movies in unprotect condition has caused damage because the right holders no longer has protection against unrightful spreading of the movies. The main negotiations were held in Oslo Tinghus 9th to 16th of December 2002. The defendant met accompanied by his defender. The defendant testified and pleaded not guilty in accordance to the charges. The court received testimonies from five witnesses, and there were held documentation as shown in the court book. Further were the program DeCSS demonstrated. Prosecutor made the following claim: Jon Lech Johansen, b 181183, is in correspondence with the charges sentenced to jail in 90 (ninety) days, which is made conditional with a parole of 2 (two) years, in accordance to the criminal law 52 following Jon Lech Johansen, b 181183, is sentenced to handle the withdrawal of one PC-cabinet Pentium III 500 MHz (withdrawal A-2), in accordance to the criminal law 35 second phrase. 8 CD-ROMS containing miscellaneous unlicensed software (withdrawal A-4-7), in accordance to the criminal law 35 second phrase. Jon Lech Johansen, b 181183, is sentenced to carry the costs of this trial with 10 000 (ten thousand) NOK. Defender made the following claim: Jon Lech Johansen is found innocent. The court's commentaries The case's background While taking under consideration the strong needs for evidence in the criminal court, including that any reasonable doubt should come to the defendant's advantage, the court finds the following actual background for the case proved: 4th of January 2000 Motion Pictures Association, hereafter called MPA, and DVD Copy Control Association Inc, hereafter called DVD CCA, reported Jon Lech Johansen to the Norwegian economic crime unit for violating the criminal law 145 second phrase. The background for the report is that Jon Lech Johansen had participated in the development of the computer program DeCSS. MPA collects several of the large movie companies in USA. The organization was one of those who took the initiative to the work that lead to the foundation of the DVD CCA. DVD CCA was founded to prevent pirate copying of DVD movies. The DVD technology is described in the expert report delivered by Stige Frode Mjolsnes and Hakon Styri 18th of September 2000 after assignment from the Norwegian economic crime unit. From page 6 in the report the following is quoted: "DVD is a technological extension of the compact disc (CD), and has the same external dimensions as this. The storage capacity for a DVD is significantly larger than for the compact disc. DVD is used as a digital storage medium both in the entertainment industry (music, video, games) and in the computer industry (software, databases etc)." From page 7 in the report the following is quoted: "DVD-video is an 'application' of DVD-ROM which among other things conditions that the information on the disc is structured in a specific way." President John Hoy in DVD CCA testified during the main negotiations that because a DVD-video has a technology that stores information digitally, and not in analog, will this lead to the possibility of it being copied without loss of quality. The movie companies were obviously worried that the development of the DVD technology would lead to significant copying and distribution of movies without the producers of the movie receiving payment. He has further testified that the companies the stood behind the development of the DVD technology wished to tie themselves to the movie industry to have something to sell. A compromise between the movie producers and the DVD producers were the development of the Content Scrambling System, hereafter called CSS. On a question from the prosecutor did Hoy confirm that CSS came as a consequence of a demand from the movie industry. From page 13 in Mjolsnes' and Styri's report the following is quoted: "CSS is a technological measure that utilizes cryptographical methods to protect digital information stored on a DVD disc in accordance to the DVD video standard." The court bases its decision on this explanation of what CSS is. From page 15 and 16 in Mjolsnes' and Styri's report the following is quoted: "The fundamental problem a right holder and a publisher of intellectual works is presented with is how to practice control with his copyrights at the same time as copies of the works is to be distributed. (Emphasis) By distributing a work in an encrypted condition the distributor will limit the distribution of the work to those who know the decryption key. (Emphasis end) We could try to make a technical obstruction such that the receiver cannot distribute the decryption key to others. This copy protection of decryption keys is a central point in CSS. Anyway will this not be sufficient. The receiver of course has the rightful claim to use (watch and listen to) the contents. Therefore it is also necessary to prevent technical copying of the contents while it is being decrypted and is presented in 'plain text'. A normal solution concept consists of making the user dependent on a decoder or playback device do watch and listen to the digital content. A precondition that has to be satisfied is that there must not be any way to 'tap' the playback device for the contents that it presents in plain text for the user, otherwise this can be copied and distributed. Further does this solution condition that the decoder/playback device itself is secured against copying. This can be done by encapsulating the decryption key in a tampering safe way, such that the secret key can neither be read nor modified nor circumvented by any physical or logical means. This will imply that the playback unit is secured against copying, essentially because the decryption key (and possible secreted algorithms) cannot be read out. A CSS implementation that utilizes tampering safe hardware decoder and playback devices will be able to satisfy the above mentioned requirements. A CSS implementation that utilizes software-only decoder and playback devices would not likely satisfy any of these requirements. The protection is at least a lot weaker than what could have been done in electronical chipsets." In conclusion does CSS make it neccesary for the buyer of a DVD-disc to have a special equipment that can decrypt DVD movies. The equipment can either consist of a DVD player in the shape of a so-called "brownware box", hardware, that is connected to a TV-apparatus for playback of the movie or a computer program, software, that is installed in a PC so that the DVD disc can be played back on PC. In a PC the DVD disc is placed in a DVD drive that communicates via a data bus with a DVD player in the form of a computer program. A DVD disc with CSS encrypted material contains a disc key encrypted with a selection of approximately 400 so-called player keys. A DVD player must contain at least one of these player keys if a DVD movie is to be playable in unencrypted form. Producers of DVD players must therefore know at least one of the player keys in order to be able to produce a DVD player that is supposed to play encrypted DVD movies. CSS consists of several forms of protection in form of codes or keys that is layered on top of each other. The title keys are used to encrypt the actual movie. Thereafter the title key is encrypted with a disc key. The disc key is encrypted with a selection of the approximately 400 player keys. A DVD player that knows at least one of the player keys can decrypt the disc key and with this key the title key can be decrypted so that the disc's contents can be watched/listened to in unencrypted form. All those who wants to produce such a DVD player can apply for a license for this and thus get access to one or more player keys. The license is controlled by DVD CCA. The precondition for getting a license is that the license taker keeps secrecy about the player keys and that they are protected in the DVD player so that the buyer of a DVD player shall not get access to the player keys. We refer to Hoy's testimony during the main negotiations. Not all producers of software accepts such conditions, for instance an amount of producers of programs under the operating system Linux. The background is that many programs that are made under Linux has open source code, meaning that everybody should be able to see how the program is built. The motive for this is that anyone who wants to modify computer software under Linux should have full access to this. By this reason there was no DVD player under the operating system Linux fall 1999. We refer to Johansens own explanation and that no evidence is presented that contradicts this explanation on this point. In addition the the encryption CSS consists of an authentication that is supposed to prevent DVD movies with CSS protection from being played back on the DVD players that are not produced under license from DVD CCA. The authentication implies that the DVD drive with the DVD disc and the player accepts each other and that the DVD player gets access to the DVD disc's contents. Further does the CSS contain a regional playback control. The world is divided into different zones where for instance USA is region 1 and Europe and parts of Asia is region 2. A DVD disc contains information about which region it's bought in and shall only be possible to play back on a DVD player bought in the same region. The development of DeCSS Johansen has explained that he during the fall 1999 wished to be able to play back DVD movies under the operating system Linux. Through several chatting channels on the Internet Johansen made contact with other people having the same interests as him. The conversations on the chatting channels are either performed "openly" with all those who are logged on or "in private" between two persons. One of the most important chatting channel services for our case is IRC (Internet Relay Chat). Johansen was during the fall 1999 operator on the chatting channels PCDVD. Johansen's nick name on the chatting channels was "MultiAGP". On page 326 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout from an IRC log that shows a conversation held 11th of September 1999 between Johansen and a person calling himself "mdx". It's clear from the printout that Johansen and "mdx" discussed how one could find the decryption algorithm in CSS by finding a DVD player that does not have or has low protection of player keys. On page 328 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of a conversation held 22th of September 1999 on IRC between Johansen and "mdx". It's clear from the printout that a person calling himself "the nomad" has program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS. It's further clear from the printout that "mdx" sent this program code to Johansen. This is also confirmed by Johansen's explanation during the main negotiations. Johansen has further explained that "the nomad" found the decryption algorithm in CSS by reverse engineering of a DVD player of the brand Xing. This is also clear from the conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" on IRC 24th of September 1999 quoted on page 393 in the actual excerpt. Johansen has further explained that program code for the authentication algorithm in CSS was publicized on the news group Livid on the Internet. Livid is a news group for persons interested in development of software under the operating system Linux. Johansen could under the main negotiations not remember how he got program code to the authentication algorithm. There is however not presented any evidence that Johansen participated in the development of this program code and the court therefore bases its decision on that Johansen fetched or received this after the work after it was completed. Johansen has explained that he later came to know that a person by the name Derek Fawcus had ascertained program code for the authentication algorithm in CSS. The court consider proven that DeCSS makes a unencrypted copy of an encrypted movie and puts this on the computer's harddisc. We refer to earlier special investigator in Okokrim Svein Yngvar Willassen's explanation, as well as the demonstation of the program that was performed during the main negotiations. This corresponds to Johansen's explanation. On page 393 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout from an IRC log with a conversation from the 24th of September 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad". It is clear from the printout that Johansen had made a CSS decryption program by using "the nomad"'s program code for the decryption algorithm and that he had made a GUI (Graphical User Interface), that is a user interface that makes the program easier to use. It is further clear from the same page of the printout that Johansen asked "the nomad" to test the program. Johanse further asked "the nomad" if he could publish the program, something "the nomad" accepted. Johansen has explaind that DeCSS was tested in the period before the program was realeased on the Internet. Johansen has further explained that there was made several versions of DeCSS. Willassen has explained that there was found several versions of DeCSS during the search in Johansen's home. The court therefore bases its decision on that several versions of DeCSS were made. Johansen is however not sure which version was distributed on the Internet. The court does not find this decisive for the case. Johansen has explained that he the 6th of October 1999 either put out a link or put DeCSS directly on his home page on the Internet. The same day he sent a message to Livid that is quoted on page 20 in the actual excerpt. In the message Johansen explained that DeCSS is a CSS decryptor that works with the movie "The Matrix", something a similar program, "DoDs speedripper", doesn't. Johansen further explained that the program works under the operating systems Win98 and Win2k. Thereafter he explained where the program could be fetched on the Internet. On page 450 in the actual excerpth there is a quote from a printout from an IRC log with a conversation from the 6th of October 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad". It is clear that Johansen made a mistake "uploaded the source". The court bases its decision on that they were talking about the source code for DeCSS that was made available on the Internet. The court further bases its decision on that this was an error from Johansens side, and refers to that he wrote to "the nomad" that he would try to get those who had downloaded it to erase it. Johansen has explained that he removed the source code from the Internet. The cause was that the didn't want DVD CCA to pull back Xing-keys so that DeCSS would stop working. The court bases its decision on that Johansen withdrew the sourcecode from Internet a short time after it was distributed. The 25th of October 1999 the source code for DeCSS was made available on Livid. The poster of the source code was anonymous. On page 501 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an IRC log showing a conversation between "the nomad" and Johansen the 25th of October 1999. It's clear from the printout that Johansen is annoyed by the fact that somemone posted the source for DeCSS. Johansen has explained that it was unfortunate that the source code was made available, because the source code contained player keys from the Xing player. DVD CCA could thus have reacted by withdrawing player keys. The court bases its decision on that it wasn't Johansen who publicized the source code for DeCSS at this time. Johansen has however explained that he made the source code for DeCSS available on the Internet at a later time because the source code was then already available. Johansen has explained that before the development of DeCSS, there existed programs for decryption of DVD movies. On of these programs are the abovementioned "Speedripper". The program was developed by a group who called themselves "Drink or Die" (DoD). According to Johansen this program didn't work on some movies, among others "The Matrix". Disclosure of player keys On page 537 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an e-mail of 7th of October 1999 from a person by the name Brian Demsky to Johansen. It's clear from the e-mail that Demsky downloaded DeCSS and that he has made a program to find the approximately 400 player keys. The purpose was to avoid that DeCSS would stop working if DVD CCA should revoke some of the player keys. This is confirmed by Johansen during the main negotiations. On page 538 in the actual excerpt there is a quote of the reply from Johansen to Demsky the same day. Johansen wrote that this was good news and thet there is interst for this. In the program code for the decryptino algorithm that Johansen received from "the nomad" there's at least one player key. On page 459 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of an IRC log that shows a conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" the 8th of October 1999, ie. after DeCSS was made publicly available on the Internet. It's clear from that log that Johansen first at this stage realised how the player keys work. It's further clear from the log that Johansen sent player keys that he had got from Demsky to "the nomad". It's further clear that "the nomad" tested several of the player keys and that Johansen were to forward the test results to Demsky. Johansen has explained during the main negotiations that he cannot remember whether he participated in the actual testing himself, but that he forwardet player keys and test results between Demsky and "the nomad". From the log it cannot be drawn any safe conclusins with regard to whether Johansen himself participated in the testing of player keys. The court does however not find this decisive for the case because it is clear that Johansen was the contact between Demsky and "the nomad". On page 553 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of an e-mail from 9th of October 199 from Demsky to Johansen. It's clear from the e-mail that Demsky had found approximately 400 player keys and that he sent them to Johansen. After a while it was known in the media that CSS was broken. On page 674 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an article on the Internet in November 1999 where Johansen is presented as spokesperson of the group MoRE (Masters of Reverse Engineering), the group who broke CSS. Johansen has explained that his father was conatected by attorney Erik Tondel who on behalf of MPA asked that Johansen removed DeCSS from the Internet. Johansen followed the adviced from attorney Tondel and removed DeCSS from the Internet. Johansen has further explained that he uploaded DeCSS to the Internet again the following weekend, and that it was available until the 24th of January 2000. Altering the charges during the main negotiations The way the charges sounded during the start of the main negotiations was Johansen charged with having unrighfully gained access to the datas on the DVD discs. The way the charges was articulated data could both be understood as the actual movies, but also other data that is stored on a DVD disc. During the main negotiations the prosecutor changed the sentence with "did Jon Lech Johansen gain access to the secret key repository in CSS". The defender mentioned that this is another case than the one the charges originally was about and that the case is deprecated in accordance to the criminal law 67 first phrase. The court finds that this is not another case than what the charges originally was about if the exact words of the charges are considered. The court has a certain sympathy for the defender's arguments against the fact that the prosecutor was a bit vague during the main negotiations with regard to what the charges actually are about, but either way finds that the exact words of the charges should be the basis of the court's decision. The question of guild The criminal law 145 first and second phrase sounds thus: "He who unrightfully breaks letters or other closed writings or in similar ways unrightfully gains access to the contents, or acquires access to someone else's locked hidings is punished with fines or jail up to 6 months. The same applies to he who by breaking a protection or by similar means unrightfully gains access to data or program equipment that is stored or transferred by electronical or other technical means." If Johansen is to be convicted for violating the criminal law 145 second phrase he must therefore either himself, or by having contributed to that someone has broken a protection of by other similar means thereby acquired unrightful access to data or program equipment. Originally the criminal law 145 applied to he who "unrightfully breaks letter or other closed writings acquires access to someone else's locked hidings or aiding this". The decisions was changed by law the 16th of February 1979. Then another sentence was added in the first point, that sounded thus: "The same applies to he who unrightfully acquires access to the contents of a closed message or writing when this regularily only is available by using special equipment for connection, playback, lighting through, reading or similar." It's clear from NOU 1985:31 Computer crime on page 14 that the decision applied to inspection of computer stored information. On page 29 and 30 the council of crime law explains about the the need for changes in the crime law 145. From page 30 the following is quoted: "The articulation in the decision ("closed message or writing") does not immediately lead the thought to information stored on computers, and there is reason to believe that the decision is little known among computer people. The council of crime law have therefore, without aiming for a change of meaning, given the decision a new articulation (as 145 second phrase)." The council of crime law's suggestion for change of 145 second phrase is the decision the way it now sounds. Because the council of crime law didn't aim to change the meaning will law sources connected to the decision the way it sounded earlier still be relevant. In Ot prp no 35 (1986-87) on page 20 and following, the department of justice explains the preconditions for punishment in 145 second phrase. On page 20 the deparment discusses the expression "breaking a protection or by similar means". From page 20 the following is quoted: "By the fact that 'similar beans' is added, the interpretation of the precondition about breaking a protection becomes less important. The point is that 145 only shall apply to cases where the act of gaining access to data must be characterized as qualified unrightful. To break a protection is a such qualifying factor, but one can also imagine similar situations where the act of breaking into data will be so grave that 145 should be applied. Furthermore will the decision rely on a understanding where other factors of the act and the acting situation is pulled in." It is hence the expression "unrightful" that is the central condition in the decision. The council of criminal law states one page 15 and following about the expression unrightful: "In principle it depends on laws and agreements what data one has the right to get to know" (NOU 1985:31 Computer crime) On the same page the council states: "The expression 'unrightful' ties itself to the particular information and not the computer facility as such." It is clear from the articulation, and also by articulations in the proposal, that the question about unrightful must be tied to whether a person is allowed to get access to computer stored information, not how the person gets the access. The court therefore bases its decision on that the decision does not apply to he who in another way than the producer has required, acquires access to data he otherwise has access to. This must apply even if this happens by breaking a protection or by similar means. Access to the movie The court finds that he who buys a DVD movie that is produced in a legal way, has rightful access to watch the movie. Something else would apply if the DVD movie was produced by copying in violation with the copyright law, so-called pirate copying. The owner of a pirate copy will therefore not have a rightful demand to watch the movie. As earlier mentioned the court does find it proven that DeCSS makes an unencrypted copy of an encrypted DVD movie that is put on the computers harddisc. The court therefore bases its decision that the use of DeCSS gives the user access to the movie in an unencrypted condition. The fact that such a copy is made is not decisive because the act of making a copy is not covered by the crime law 145. The question for the courte is hence whether Johansen has used DeCSS on DVD movies that are produced in an illegal manner and therefore did not have the right to access. On page 299 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of a chatting channel with a conversation the 9th of October 1999 between Johansen and another person calling himself "Robshot". It is clear from the printout that the Johansen has pirated copies of computer software. It is further clear from page 474 in the actual excerpt which is a printout of an IRC log from a conversation the 14th of October 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad" that Johansen has an illegal copy of the computer program Scenarist 2.0. Johansen has however explained that he has not had illegally produced DVD movies in his posession. He has explained that he has used DeCSS on the movies "The Matrix" and "The fifth element" and that he has bought both of the films in a legal manner in stores in Oslo and Larvik, respectively. No evidence is presented that shows that Johansen has used DeCSS on illegally acquired DVD movies. The court has therefore reached the verdict that Johansen cannot be convicted for violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to his own use of DeCSS. The next question the court has to decide upon is whether Johansen can be convicted for abetting violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase by the fact that other has gained unrightful access to DVD movies. In accordance to the criminal law 145 fourth phrase is abetting also punishable. From page 200 in Erling Johansen Husabo's bok "The periphery of criminal responsibility - Abetting, attempting, preparing" (1999) the following is quoted: "The statement (in the preparation of the criminal law) shows that even if the abettor has done his part, one shall not punish the abettor for anything more than attempt as long as the main man hasn't completed the violation." No evidence is presented that shows that anybody have used DeCSS on illegally acquired DVD movies. The court refers to special investigator Willassens testimony during the main negotiations where he said he didn't know of any specific cases where DeCSS have been used on illegally acquired DVD movies. Johansen can therefore not be convicted for completed abetting. The court furthermore has to to decide upon whether Johansen can be convicted for attempt to abet. The problem posed is whether Johansen can be convicted for abetting by having produced and distributed a tool which makes it possible for other people to gain unrightful access to DVD movies. Our case has many similarities with transfer of property discussed by Husabo. From page 100 in his book the following is quoted: "Nearly every product can become new as a means to a law violation. Certain kinds of products even likely will lead to being used to such. But it is either way there's an agreement that the legal responsibility is excluded both for producer and salesman. (Emphasis) What intentions the producer or salesman had, is then basically irrelevant. (Emphasis end) As long as the products also serves legal purposes the problem is not as much to give reason to freedom from punishment, but to give reason when sale to others anyway can lead to abetting responsibility. The basis is thus that the sale of products that have a legal purpose cannot be punished as abetting. The same must be true for distribution of products. Decisive for the question is whether DeCSS has a legal purpose. As mentioned earlier the court finds that it will not be in violation with the criminal law 145 second phrase to utilize DeCSS to watch DVD movies acquired legally. Furthermore will it not be in violation with the criminal law 145 second phrase to produce copies of legally acquired DVD movies for private use, in accordance to the copyright law 12. DeCSS can thus be used both to take a copy of a DVD movie and to play back a DVD movie if one doesn't have licensed playback equipment. How useful this is to society there could be different opinions about, but that this is legal have to seem clear after this. The court therefore finds that DeCSS can be used in a legal or illegal manner. The supreme court has convicted for punishable abetting of sale of products that otherwise are legal, jf Rt 1996 page 965. The supreme court laid decisive stress on that the organization of the business obviously showed that the person's intension with the sale was to sell products that were to be used exclusively for illegal production of hard liquors. The defendant's intention with the distribution of a product is thus an important factor in the evaluation of the outer circumstances in the case, in accordance to Husabo page 117. In our case the court finds it difficult to draw any safe conclusions with regard to Johansen's intention with the development of DeCSS and the publicizing of the program on the Internet. Johansen has testified that the intention was to contribute to the development of a DVD player for the operating system Linux. On page 885 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an e-mail of 23th of September 1999 from "the nomad" to Derek Fawcus. It's clear from the e-mail that "the named" sent program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS to Fawcus. "The nomad" further wrote in the e-mail that he hoped this would be of help for the development of a DVD player for Linux. Johansen has on his side expressed himself negatively about the operating system Linux and the development community tied to this system. On page 45 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an e-mail of 6th of October 1999 on Livid from a person by the name Michael Holzt. Holzt writes that Johansen allegedly have said that he hates Linux and that he would have been glad if the system was never invented because FreeBSD is much better. On page 47 in the actual excerpt is there a quote from the answer from Johansen where he wrote that he never have said that he hates Linux, but that it doesn't matter if Linux never had been invented because FreeBSD is much better. On page 51 there is a quote from an e-mail of 8th of October 1999 to Livid where Johanse apologizes his attitued in earlier e-mails and writes that he means Linux is a very good operating system, but that FreeBSD is better. On page 458 and 459 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of an IRC log with a conversation the 8th of October 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad" where Johansen writes that he has sent an apology to Livid, but that it was just to satisfy another person who the court assumes is Derek Fawcus. Johanse writes further: "God damned linux fanatics, I wish someone would shoot them ; )" Given the context and the explanation Johansen has given during the main negotiations the court bases its decision on that the background for this statement is a conflict between Michael Holzt and Johansen about whether the source code should be publicized, as well as the situation around the transferral of the source code to Fawcus. The court finds that Johansen's statements regarding Linux thus cannot be taken literally and that they don't give any solid grounds for Johansen's relationship to Linux in general. The court therefore means that this correspondence is not sufficient evidence for what intention Johansen had with the development of DeCSS. It does however speak against that Johansen's intention was to make a DVD player for Linux that he showed so little interest for this operating system at the time DeCSS was made. It's clear from what is mentioned above that Johansen meant that FreeBSD was a better operating system than Linux. It's further clear from a conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" on IRC quoted on page 506 in the actual excerpt that Johansen as late as 26th of October 1999 did not have Linux installed on any of his computers. It further speaks agains that Johansen's intention was the development of a DVD player for Linux that he made DeCSS a Windows program. Johansen has however testified that he did not have enough knowledge about Linux and that there was no support for UDF (the file system on a DVD dict) under this operating system. Johansen made DeCSS available on the Internet and was occupied with making the program easy to use by "the average joe", in accordance to page 428 in the actual excerpt which is a printout from an IRC log with a conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" the 5th of October 1999. Johansen has explained that it was neccesary to publicize DeCSS on the Internet so that the program could be tested and errors discovered so that the program could be developed further. The court can however not see that any of the improvements that were made after the 6th of October 1999 further contributed to the development of a DVD player for Linux. On page 291 in the actual excerpt there is a quote of a printout of a log from a chatting channel from two conversations the 12th of September 1999 between Johansen and "Robshot". It's clear from the printout that a person calling himself "Wag" means that the chatting channel Johansen is operator in, PCDVD, is solely occupied with pirate copying. In the conversation there is a quote of another conversation between Johansen and "Wag" where Johansen wrote the following to "Wag": "and I've got only one thing to say to you, keep out of # PCDVD, we are criminals in there, you don't want to mingle with us." On page 366 in the actual excerpt there is a quote of a printout from a log from a chatting channel with a conversation from 25th of September 1999 between Johansen and a person calling himself "Terryben". It's clear from the printout that Johansen wrote the following to "Terryben": "so, hehe, we'll be copying dvds i notime when dvd burners drop in $" The court finds it difficult to put too much stress on the printouts from the chatting channels with regard to Johansen's intention with the development of DeCSS. The conversations can contain exaggregations, humour and irony, and what is said is not likely well thought through at all times. The court can therefore not base its decision on that the conversations give a correct image of the participators subjective judgements. In spite of this the logs show that the competition with other development communities was a strong driving force behind the development and DeCSS. This is especially shown in page 395, 396, 410, 435, 462, 464, 468 and 521 in the actual excerpt which are printouts from conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" where he repeatedly referred to DoDs development of a decryption program. On this background the court does not find it reasonably proved that without any reasonable doubt Johansen's intention with the development and publicizing of the program was to contribute to illegal copying and distribution of DVD movies. The court has on this background reached the verdict that Johansen cannot be convicted for having attempted to abet violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase with regard to access to the keys. This holds true even if Johansen was aware that the program could be misused. This will hold true for all who distribute products that can be used legally or illegally. Access to the player keys The next question the court has to decide upon is whether Johansen can be convicted for violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to the player keys in CSS. If Johansen is to be convicted for violation the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to the player keys there must also in this relation be present a break of a protection or other similar mean that has given unrightful access to these. In Ot prp no 35 the condition to "break a protection or by other similar means" is discussed. From page 20 the following is quoted: "The department basically agrees with the council of criminal law in that the decision should be articulated so that it only can be applied when the rightholder himself has done something to protect the information against illegal access." It is thus required that both the information is actually protected against access and that the purpose of the protection is to prevent illegal access. The court bases its decision on that it doesn't matter how strong the protection is. It must be sufficient that the rightholder has done something to protect the information. The court does on the other size base its decision on that factors that makes the access more difficult cannot be counted as protection in relation to the criminal law 145 second phrase if the intention haven't been to protect against illegal access. Johansen has testified and the court bases its decision on that "the nomad" wrote program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS after he had performed reverse engineering of a Xing-player. The questions thuse becomes whether such reverse engineering implied a violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase. Johansen has testified that he with reverse engineering means the analyze a computer program to find out how it works. According to Johansen "the nomad" has understood the decryption algorithm in CSS and written program code for this in a high level language. This code "the nomad" sent to Johansen. Reverse engineering is not mentioned in the preparations for the criminal law 145. By the evaluation of the span of the criminal law 145 the legality principle's particular stress on the criminal law's reach must be taken into regard, in accordance to the constitution 96. The supreme court has in two decisions interpreted the criminal law 145 second phrase very narrowly compared to the actual wording, in accordance to Rt 1994 page 1610 and Rt 1995 page 35. Even though the decisions specificaly are about the expression "data", they can be read as a general expression that the criminal law 145 shall be interpreted narrowly. Bjorn Bjerke gives in his book "Reverse engineering" of computer programes (1994) on page 23 the following definition of reverse engineering: "Reverse engineering is thereby a process in which one gets an understanding about the datas and processes in an existing computer system. The goal is to pull out contents, structure and data flow from existing computer programs and represent this information in a shape well-suited for further analysis and documentation" On page 24 and following Bjerke explains the different methods of reverse engineering. Firstly you can read about the program in available manuals and litterature. Secondly you can observe the program at run time. The court finds it obvious that the two first methods does not imply a violation of the criminal law 145. Bjerke describes on page 5 and following the approach used in the third method he calls the dissection method: "The dissection method requires that we can read and understand computer programs and thereby pulling out information about the individual machine instructions, their function in shape of a description at a higher level of abstraction, as well as this functions place in the algorithm which describes what the program does. The computer program in its distributed for is in binary code, a long stream of one's and zero's, which contains a lot of "filling information" in addition to the original program. Even by use of alphanumerical symbols will the resulting code not give particular meaning, unless one can read machine instructions and data. You can in other words not avoid disassembling the program." Bjerke further writes that disassembling means that the object code is transformed into assembly code. Disassembling can be done with a disassmbling program, but one would in addition have to do some testing. The assembler language is very difficult for humans to interpret and decompilation is thus neccesary. Decompilation is the transforming of the assembly code to a high level programming language. Based on the description Bjerke has given of reverse engineering, as well as the testimony Johansen has given about how "the nomad" wrote program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS, the court finds it difficult to call this breaking of a protecting or other similar means. The court finds it not proven that a computer program distributed in object code is caused by the producer of the program wanting to protect the source code. The cause could equally well be that the program in object code can be used directly in the computer. The court has therefore decided that the reverse engineering that "the nomad" performed is not in violation with the criminal law 145 second phrase. The court finds it proven that the program code Johansen got from "the nomad" contained at least one of the player keys in CSS. The question for the court is thus whether this/these were protected in relation to the criminal law 145 second phrase. President in DVD CCA, John Hoy, has explained that keeping the player keys secret was a condition to get license to produce DVD players that could play encrypted movies. This is however not sufficient evidence that all producers actually fulfilled this condition. Johansen has explained that the Xing-player did not have any protection of the player keys. This corresponds to what "the nomad" said to Johansen in the conversation on IRC the 24th of September 1999 quoted on page 394 in the actual excerpt. No evidence is presented showing that keys were protected within the Xing player. The court has therefore based its decision on that there was no break of protection or other similar means in relation to player keys in the Xing player. As regards to the rest of the player keys it's clear from page 537 in the actual excerpt that Brian Demsky the 7th of October 1999 made contact with Johansen and explained that he was in the process of finding all of the player keys in CSS with basis in the program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS that Johansen had made available on the Internet the day before. Demsky further wrote: "I'm currently at a key rate of 2.5 million keys/sec/450 mhz". This indicates that he had developed a computer program that made the computer able to guess possible player keys. The basis for the program is the decryption algorithm in DeCSS where Xing keys were present. The court finds that even though this approach does implies breaking a protection or at least is covered by the expression "or by similar means", the break does not give unrightful access to data. The criminal law 145 second phrase does not apply to breaking the protection itself if the protection breaking itself does not lead to the person getting unrightful access to data. As mentioned earlier the court has found that the use of DeCSS on movies that are neither illegally produced or acquired does not imply a violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase. As regards to the question about abetting we show to the abovementioned in relation to access to the movie. Also in relation to other's possible use of the player keys to gain unrightful access to information on DVD discs does the court find that Johansen cannot be convicted for attempted abetting. The court thus finds that Johansen neither can be convicted for abetting to violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to the player keys. Johansen is therefore acquitted. Withdrawal Prosecutor claimed the withdrawal of one PC cabinet Pentium III 500 MHz and 8 [CDs with] miscellanous unlicensed software in accordance to the criminal law 35 second phrase. The court does not find that these objects have been used to har was meant used to perform an illegal act. The claim of withdrawal is therefore not followed. Case expenses Prosecutor claimed that Johansen should be compelled to pay the case's expenses. Johansen is acquitted and can thus not be compelled to pay the case's expenses, in accordance to the criminal law 436 first phrase. All judges agreed on the verdict.

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  98. And this time with formatting... (mod parent down) by Avakado · · Score: 1

    Verdict:

    Jon Lech Johansen, born November 18, 1983, lives in Agmond Boltsvei 62. He is unmarried and has no children. He works as software developer and earns NOK 35 000 gross per month. He has no fortune.

    By charges presented by the Norwegian economic crime unit's state attorney member the 10th of May 2002, changed under the main negotiations, is he placed under charges at Oslo district court for violation of

    The criminal law 145 second by third and fourth phrase

    For by unrightfully having broken a protection or by similar means having unrightfully acquired access to data that is stored or transferred electronically or by other technical means and by having caused damage by acquiring or using such unrightful knowledge or by having aided this.

    The basis is the following chain of events or cooperation in this

    In the period September 1999 to 24th of January 2000, via Internet from residence in Lardal, Jon Lech Johansen participated in the breaking of the technical protection system Content Scrambling System ("CSS"), licensed by DVD Copy Control Association Inc, to protect DVD-movies produced by Motion Pictures Association against copying. A DVD-movie is a movie that is stored electronically on a DVD-disc. Based on knowledge about a secret algorithm and player keys incorporated into CSS, did Jon Lech Johansen make the Windows program DeCSS. By using DeCSS an unencrypted copy of the DVD-film is produced. Jon Lech Johansen used DeCSS on his own DVD-movies, and he spread DeCSS several times in different versions via Internet in the said period. By the described circumstances Jon Lech Johansen acquired unrightful access to the secret key repository in CSS. Further did Jon Lech Johansen break the copy protection on the DVD-movies and acquired himself and others access to the DVD-discs in an unprotected condition. The access was unrightful because the DVD-movies were sold with the condition that the user would utilize authorized playback equipment and respect the copy protection. The acquiring of the movies in unprotect condition has caused damage because the right holders no longer has protection against unrightful spreading of the movies.

    The main negotiations were held in Oslo Tinghus 9th to 16th of December 2002. The defendant met accompanied by his defender. The defendant testified and pleaded not guilty in accordance to the charges.

    The court received testimonies from five witnesses, and there were held documentation as shown in the court book. Further were the program DeCSS demonstrated.

    Prosecutor made the following claim:

    Jon Lech Johansen, b 181183, is in correspondence with the charges sentenced to jail in 90 (ninety) days, which is made conditional with a parole of 2 (two) years, in accordance to the criminal law 52 following

    Jon Lech Johansen, b 181183, is sentenced to handle the withdrawal of
    one PC-cabinet Pentium III 500 MHz (withdrawal A-2), in accordance to the criminal law 35 second phrase.
    8 CD-ROMS containing miscellaneous unlicensed software (withdrawal A-4-7), in accordance to the criminal law 35 second phrase.

    Jon Lech Johansen, b 181183, is sentenced to carry the costs of this trial with 10 000 (ten thousand) NOK.

    Defender made the following claim:

    Jon Lech Johansen is found innocent.

    The court's commentaries

    The case's background
    While taking under consideration the strong needs for evidence in the criminal court, including that any reasonable doubt should come to the defendant's advantage, the court finds the following actual background for the case proved:
    4th of January 2000 Motion Pictures Association, hereafter called MPA, and DVD Copy Control Association Inc, hereafter called DVD CCA, reported Jon Lech Johansen to the Norwegian economic crime unit for violating the criminal law 145 second phrase. The background for the report is that Jon Lech Johansen had participated in the development of the computer program DeCSS.

    MPA collects several of the large movie companies in USA. The organization was one of those who took the initiative to the work that lead to the foundation of the DVD CCA. DVD CCA was founded to prevent pirate copying of DVD movies. The DVD technology is described in the expert report delivered by Stige Frode Mjolsnes and Hakon Styri 18th of September 2000 after assignment from the Norwegian economic crime unit. From page 6 in the report the following is quoted:

    "DVD is a technological extension of the compact disc (CD), and has the same external dimensions as this. The storage capacity for a DVD is significantly larger than for the compact disc. DVD is used as a digital storage medium both in the entertainment industry (music, video, games) and in the computer industry (software, databases etc)."

    From page 7 in the report the following is quoted:

    "DVD-video is an 'application' of DVD-ROM which among other things conditions that the information on the disc is structured in a specific way."

    President John Hoy in DVD CCA testified during the main negotiations that because a DVD-video has a technology that stores information digitally, and not in analog, will this lead to the possibility of it being copied without loss of quality. The movie companies were obviously worried that the development of the DVD technology would lead to significant copying and distribution of movies without the producers of the movie receiving payment. He has further testified that the companies the stood behind the development of the DVD technology wished to tie themselves to the movie industry to have something to sell. A compromise between the movie producers and the DVD producers were the development of the Content Scrambling System, hereafter called CSS. On a question from the prosecutor did Hoy confirm that CSS came as a consequence of a demand from the movie industry.

    From page 13 in Mjolsnes' and Styri's report the following is quoted:

    "CSS is a technological measure that utilizes cryptographical methods to protect digital information stored on a DVD disc in accordance to the DVD video standard."

    The court bases its decision on this explanation of what CSS is.

    From page 15 and 16 in Mjolsnes' and Styri's report the following is quoted:

    "The fundamental problem a right holder and a publisher of intellectual works is presented with is how to practice control with his copyrights at the same time as copies of the works is to be distributed.

    (Emphasis) By distributing a work in an encrypted condition the distributor will limit the distribution of the work to those who know the decryption key. (Emphasis end)

    We could try to make a technical obstruction such that the receiver cannot distribute the decryption key to others. This copy protection of decryption keys is a central point in CSS. Anyway will this not be sufficient. The receiver of course has the rightful claim to use (watch and listen to) the contents. Therefore it is also necessary to prevent technical copying of the contents while it is being decrypted and is presented in 'plain text'.

    A normal solution concept consists of making the user dependent on a decoder or playback device do watch and listen to the digital content. A precondition that has to be satisfied is that there must not be any way to 'tap' the playback device for the contents that it presents in plain text for the user, otherwise this can be copied and distributed.

    Further does this solution condition that the decoder/playback device itself is secured against copying. This can be done by encapsulating the decryption key in a tampering safe way, such that the secret key can neither be read nor modified nor circumvented by any physical or logical means. This will imply that the playback unit is secured against copying, essentially because the decryption key (and possible secreted algorithms) cannot be read out.

    A CSS implementation that utilizes tampering safe hardware decoder and playback devices will be able to satisfy the above mentioned requirements. A CSS implementation that utilizes software-only decoder and playback devices would not likely satisfy any of these requirements. The protection is at least a lot weaker than what could have been done in electronical chipsets."

    In conclusion does CSS make it neccesary for the buyer of a DVD-disc to have a special equipment that can decrypt DVD movies. The equipment can either consist of a DVD player in the shape of a so-called "brownware box", hardware, that is connected to a TV-apparatus for playback of the movie or a computer program, software, that is installed in a PC so that the DVD disc can be played back on PC. In a PC the DVD disc is placed in a DVD drive that communicates via a data bus with a DVD player in the form of a computer program.

    A DVD disc with CSS encrypted material contains a disc key encrypted with a selection of approximately 400 so-called player keys. A DVD player must contain at least one of these player keys if a DVD movie is to be playable in unencrypted form. Producers of DVD players must therefore know at least one of the player keys in order to be able to produce a DVD player that is supposed to play encrypted DVD movies.

    CSS consists of several forms of protection in form of codes or keys that is layered on top of each other. The title keys are used to encrypt the actual movie. Thereafter the title key is encrypted with a disc key. The disc key is encrypted with a selection of the approximately 400 player keys. A DVD player that knows at least one of the player keys can decrypt the disc key and with this key the title key can be decrypted so that the disc's contents can be watched/listened to in unencrypted form.

    All those who wants to produce such a DVD player can apply for a license for this and thus get access to one or more player keys. The license is controlled by DVD CCA. The precondition for getting a license is that the license taker keeps secrecy about the player keys and that they are protected in the DVD player so that the buyer of a DVD player shall not get access to the player keys. We refer to Hoy's testimony during the main negotiations.

    Not all producers of software accepts such conditions, for instance an amount of producers of programs under the operating system Linux. The background is that many programs that are made under Linux has open source code, meaning that everybody should be able to see how the program is built. The motive for this is that anyone who wants to modify computer software under Linux should have full access to this. By this reason there was no DVD player under the operating system Linux fall 1999. We refer to Johansens own explanation and that no evidence is presented that contradicts this explanation on this point.

    In addition the the encryption CSS consists of an authentication that is supposed to prevent DVD movies with CSS protection from being played back on the DVD players that are not produced under license from DVD CCA. The authentication implies that the DVD drive with the DVD disc and the player accepts each other and that the DVD player gets access to the DVD disc's contents.

    Further does the CSS contain a regional playback control. The world is divided into different zones where for instance USA is region 1 and Europe and parts of Asia is region 2. A DVD disc contains information about which region it's bought in and shall only be possible to play back on a DVD player bought in the same region.

    The development of DeCSS

    Johansen has explained that he during the fall 1999 wished to be able to play back DVD movies under the operating system Linux.

    Through several chatting channels on the Internet Johansen made contact with other people having the same interests as him. The conversations on the chatting channels are either performed "openly" with all those who are logged on or "in private" between two persons. One of the most important chatting channel services for our case is IRC (Internet Relay Chat). Johansen was during the fall 1999 operator on the chatting channels PCDVD. Johansen's nick name on the chatting channels was "MultiAGP".

    On page 326 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout from an IRC log that shows a conversation held 11th of September 1999 between Johansen and a person calling himself "mdx". It's clear from the printout that Johansen and "mdx" discussed how one could find the decryption algorithm in CSS by finding a DVD player that does not have or has low protection of player keys. On page 328 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of a conversation held 22th of September 1999 on IRC between Johansen and "mdx". It's clear from the printout that a person calling himself "the nomad" has program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS. It's further clear from the printout that "mdx" sent this program code to Johansen. This is also confirmed by Johansen's explanation during the main negotiations. Johansen has further explained that "the nomad" found the decryption algorithm in CSS by reverse engineering of a DVD player of the brand Xing. This is also clear from the conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" on IRC 24th of September 1999 quoted on page 393 in the actual excerpt.

    Johansen has further explained that program code for the authentication algorithm in CSS was publicized on the news group Livid on the Internet. Livid is a news group for persons interested in development of software under the operating system Linux. Johansen could under the main negotiations not remember how he got program code to the authentication algorithm. There is however not presented any evidence that Johansen participated in the development of this program code and the court therefore bases its decision on that Johansen fetched or received this after the work after it was completed. Johansen has explained that he later came to know that a person by the name Derek Fawcus had ascertained program code for the authentication algorithm in CSS.

    The court consider proven that DeCSS makes a unencrypted copy of an encrypted movie and puts this on the computer's harddisc. We refer to earlier special investigator in Okokrim Svein Yngvar Willassen's explanation, as well as the demonstation of the program that was performed during the main negotiations. This corresponds to Johansen's explanation.

    On page 393 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout from an IRC log with a conversation from the 24th of September 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad". It is clear from the printout that Johansen had made a CSS decryption program by using "the nomad"'s program code for the decryption algorithm and that he had made a GUI (Graphical User Interface), that is a user interface that makes the program easier to use. It is further clear from the same page of the printout that Johansen asked "the nomad" to test the program. Johanse further asked "the nomad" if he could publish the program, something "the nomad" accepted.

    Johansen has explaind that DeCSS was tested in the period before the program was realeased on the Internet. Johansen has further explained that there was made several versions of DeCSS. Willassen has explained that there was found several versions of DeCSS during the search in Johansen's home. The court therefore bases its decision on that several versions of DeCSS were made. Johansen is however not sure which version was distributed on the Internet. The court does not find this decisive for the case.

    Johansen has explained that he the 6th of October 1999 either put out a link or put DeCSS directly on his home page on the Internet. The same day he sent a message to Livid that is quoted on page 20 in the actual excerpt. In the message Johansen explained that DeCSS is a CSS decryptor that works with the movie "The Matrix", something a similar program, "DoDs speedripper", doesn't. Johansen further explained that the program works under the operating systems Win98 and Win2k. Thereafter he explained where the program could be fetched on the Internet.

    On page 450 in the actual excerpth there is a quote from a printout from an IRC log with a conversation from the 6th of October 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad". It is clear that Johansen made a mistake "uploaded the source". The court bases its decision on that they were talking about the source code for DeCSS that was made available on the Internet. The court further bases its decision on that this was an error from Johansens side, and refers to that he wrote to "the nomad" that he would try to get those who had downloaded it to erase it. Johansen has explained that he removed the source code from the Internet. The cause was that the didn't want DVD CCA to pull back Xing-keys so that DeCSS would stop working. The court bases its decision on that Johansen withdrew the sourcecode from Internet a short time after it was distributed.

    The 25th of October 1999 the source code for DeCSS was made available on Livid. The poster of the source code was anonymous. On page 501 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an IRC log showing a conversation between "the nomad" and Johansen the 25th of October 1999. It's clear from the printout that Johansen is annoyed by the fact that somemone posted the source for DeCSS. Johansen has explained that it was unfortunate that the source code was made available, because the source code contained player keys from the Xing player. DVD CCA could thus have reacted by withdrawing player keys. The court bases its decision on that it wasn't Johansen who publicized the source code for DeCSS at this time.

    Johansen has however explained that he made the source code for DeCSS available on the Internet at a later time because the source code was then already available.

    Johansen has explained that before the development of DeCSS, there existed programs for decryption of DVD movies. On of these programs are the abovementioned "Speedripper". The program was developed by a group who called themselves "Drink or Die" (DoD). According to Johansen this program didn't work on some movies, among others "The Matrix".

    Disclosure of player keys

    On page 537 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an e-mail of 7th of October 1999 from a person by the name Brian Demsky to Johansen. It's clear from the e-mail that Demsky downloaded DeCSS and that he has made a program to find the approximately 400 player keys. The purpose was to avoid that DeCSS would stop working if DVD CCA should revoke some of the player keys. This is confirmed by Johansen during the main negotiations.

    On page 538 in the actual excerpt there is a quote of the reply from Johansen to Demsky the same day. Johansen wrote that this was good news and thet there is interst for this.

    In the program code for the decryptino algorithm that Johansen received from "the nomad" there's at least one player key. On page 459 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of an IRC log that shows a conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" the 8th of October 1999, ie. after DeCSS was made publicly available on the Internet. It's clear from that log that Johansen first at this stage realised how the player keys work. It's further clear from the log that Johansen sent player keys that he had got from Demsky to "the nomad". It's further clear that "the nomad" tested several of the player keys and that Johansen were to forward the test results to Demsky. Johansen has explained during the main negotiations that he cannot remember whether he participated in the actual testing himself, but that he forwardet player keys and test results between Demsky and "the nomad". From the log it cannot be drawn any safe conclusins with regard to whether Johansen himself participated in the testing of player keys. The court does however not find this decisive for the case because it is clear that Johansen was the contact between Demsky and "the nomad".

    On page 553 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of an e-mail from 9th of October 199 from Demsky to Johansen. It's clear from the e-mail that Demsky had found approximately 400 player keys and that he sent them to Johansen.

    After a while it was known in the media that CSS was broken. On page 674 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an article on the Internet in November 1999 where Johansen is presented as spokesperson of the group MoRE (Masters of Reverse Engineering), the group who broke CSS. Johansen has explained that his father was conatected by attorney Erik Tondel who on behalf of MPA asked that Johansen removed DeCSS from the Internet. Johansen followed the adviced from attorney Tondel and removed DeCSS from the Internet. Johansen has further explained that he uploaded DeCSS to the Internet again the following weekend, and that it was available until the 24th of January 2000.

    Altering the charges during the main negotiations

    The way the charges sounded during the start of the main negotiations was Johansen charged with having unrighfully gained access to the datas on the DVD discs. The way the charges was articulated data could both be understood as the actual movies, but also other data that is stored on a DVD disc. During the main negotiations the prosecutor changed the sentence with "did Jon Lech Johansen gain access to the secret key repository in CSS".

    The defender mentioned that this is another case than the one the charges originally was about and that the case is deprecated in accordance to the criminal law 67 first phrase. The court finds that this is not another case than what the charges originally was about if the exact words of the charges are considered. The court has a certain sympathy for the defender's arguments against the fact that the prosecutor was a bit vague during the main negotiations with regard to what the charges actually are about, but either way finds that the exact words of the charges should be the basis of the court's decision.

    The question of guild

    The criminal law 145 first and second phrase sounds thus:

    "He who unrightfully breaks letters or other closed writings or in similar ways unrightfully gains access to the contents, or acquires access to someone else's locked hidings is punished with fines or jail up to 6 months.

    The same applies to he who by breaking a protection or by similar means unrightfully gains access to data or program equipment that is stored or transferred by electronical or other technical means."

    If Johansen is to be convicted for violating the criminal law 145 second phrase he must therefore either himself, or by having contributed to that someone has broken a protection of by other similar means thereby acquired unrightful access to data or program equipment. Originally the criminal law 145 applied to he who "unrightfully breaks letter or other closed writings acquires access to someone else's locked hidings or aiding this". The decisions was changed by law the 16th of February 1979. Then another sentence was added in the first point, that sounded thus:

    "The same applies to he who unrightfully acquires access to the contents of a closed message or writing when this regularily only is available by using special equipment for connection, playback, lighting through, reading or similar."

    It's clear from NOU 1985:31 Computer crime on page 14 that the decision applied to inspection of computer stored information. On page 29 and 30 the council of crime law explains about the the need for changes in the crime law 145. From page 30 the following is quoted:

    "The articulation in the decision ("closed message or writing") does not immediately lead the thought to information stored on computers, and there is reason to believe that the decision is little known among computer people. The council of crime law have therefore, without aiming for a change of meaning, given the decision a new articulation (as 145 second phrase)."

    The council of crime law's suggestion for change of 145 second phrase is the decision the way it now sounds. Because the council of crime law didn't aim to change the meaning will law sources connected to the decision the way it sounded earlier still be relevant.

    In Ot prp no 35 (1986-87) on page 20 and following, the department of justice explains the preconditions for punishment in 145 second phrase. On page 20 the deparment discusses the expression "breaking a protection or by similar means". From page 20 the following is quoted:

    "By the fact that 'similar beans' is added, the interpretation of the precondition about breaking a protection becomes less important. The point is that 145 only shall apply to cases where the act of gaining access to data must be characterized as qualified unrightful. To break a protection is a such qualifying factor, but one can also imagine similar situations where the act of breaking into data will be so grave that 145 should be applied. Furthermore will the decision rely on a understanding where other factors of the act and the acting situation is pulled in."

    It is hence the expression "unrightful" that is the central condition in the decision. The council of criminal law states one page 15 and following about the expression unrightful:

    "In principle it depends on laws and agreements what data one has the right to get to know" (NOU 1985:31 Computer crime)

    On the same page the council states:

    "The expression 'unrightful' ties itself to the particular information and not the computer facility as such."

    It is clear from the articulation, and also by articulations in the proposal, that the question about unrightful must be tied to whether a person is allowed to get access to computer stored information, not how the person gets the access.

    The court therefore bases its decision on that the decision does not apply to he who in another way than the producer has required, acquires access to data he otherwise has access to. This must apply even if this happens by breaking a protection or by similar means.

    Access to the movie

    The court finds that he who buys a DVD movie that is produced in a legal way, has rightful access to watch the movie. Something else would apply if the DVD movie was produced by copying in violation with the copyright law, so-called pirate copying. The owner of a pirate copy will therefore not have a rightful demand to watch the movie.

    As earlier mentioned the court does find it proven that DeCSS makes an unencrypted copy of an encrypted DVD movie that is put on the computers harddisc. The court therefore bases its decision that the use of DeCSS gives the user access to the movie in an unencrypted condition. The fact that such a copy is made is not decisive because the act of making a copy is not covered by the crime law 145.

    The question for the courte is hence whether Johansen has used DeCSS on DVD movies that are produced in an illegal manner and therefore did not have the right to access.

    On page 299 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of a chatting channel with a conversation the 9th of October 1999 between Johansen and another person calling himself "Robshot". It is clear from the printout that the Johansen has pirated copies of computer software. It is further clear from page 474 in the actual excerpt which is a printout of an IRC log from a conversation the 14th of October 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad" that Johansen has an illegal copy of the computer program Scenarist 2.0. Johansen has however explained that he has not had illegally produced DVD movies in his posession. He has explained that he has used DeCSS on the movies "The Matrix" and "The fifth element" and that he has bought both of the films in a legal manner in stores in Oslo and Larvik, respectively. No evidence is presented that shows that Johansen has used DeCSS on illegally acquired DVD movies. The court has therefore reached the verdict that Johansen cannot be convicted for violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to his own use of DeCSS.

    The next question the court has to decide upon is whether Johansen can be convicted for abetting violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase by the fact that other has gained unrightful access to DVD movies. In accordance to the criminal law 145 fourth phrase is abetting also punishable.

    From page 200 in Erling Johansen Husabo's bok "The periphery of criminal responsibility - Abetting, attempting, preparing" (1999) the following is quoted:

    "The statement (in the preparation of the criminal law) shows that even if the abettor has done his part, one shall not punish the abettor for anything more than attempt as long as the main man hasn't completed the violation."

    No evidence is presented that shows that anybody have used DeCSS on illegally acquired DVD movies. The court refers to special investigator Willassens testimony during the main negotiations where he said he didn't know of any specific cases where DeCSS have been used on illegally acquired DVD movies. Johansen can therefore not be convicted for completed abetting.

    The court furthermore has to to decide upon whether Johansen can be convicted for attempt to abet. The problem posed is whether Johansen can be convicted for abetting by having produced and distributed a tool which makes it possible for other people to gain unrightful access to DVD movies.

    Our case has many similarities with transfer of property discussed by Husabo. From page 100 in his book the following is quoted:

    "Nearly every product can become new as a means to a law violation. Certain kinds of products even likely will lead to being used to such. But it is either way there's an agreement that the legal responsibility is excluded both for producer and salesman. (Emphasis) What intentions the producer or salesman had, is then basically irrelevant. (Emphasis end)

    As long as the products also serves legal purposes the problem is not as much to give reason to freedom from punishment, but to give reason when sale to others anyway can lead to abetting responsibility.

    The basis is thus that the sale of products that have a legal purpose cannot be punished as abetting. The same must be true for distribution of products. Decisive for the question is whether DeCSS has a legal purpose.

    As mentioned earlier the court finds that it will not be in violation with the criminal law 145 second phrase to utilize DeCSS to watch DVD movies acquired legally. Furthermore will it not be in violation with the criminal law 145 second phrase to produce copies of legally acquired DVD movies for private use, in accordance to the copyright law 12. DeCSS can thus be used both to take a copy of a DVD movie and to play back a DVD movie if one doesn't have licensed playback equipment. How useful this is to society there could be different opinions about, but that this is legal have to seem clear after this. The court therefore finds that DeCSS can be used in a legal or illegal manner.

    The supreme court has convicted for punishable abetting of sale of products that otherwise are legal, jf Rt 1996 page 965. The supreme court laid decisive stress on that the organization of the business obviously showed that the person's intension with the sale was to sell products that were to be used exclusively for illegal production of hard liquors. The defendant's intention with the distribution of a product is thus an important factor in the evaluation of the outer circumstances in the case, in accordance to Husabo page 117.

    In our case the court finds it difficult to draw any safe conclusions with regard to Johansen's intention with the development of DeCSS and the publicizing of the program on the Internet. Johansen has testified that the intention was to contribute to the development of a DVD player for the operating system Linux. On page 885 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an e-mail of 23th of September 1999 from "the nomad" to Derek Fawcus. It's clear from the e-mail that "the named" sent program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS to Fawcus. "The nomad" further wrote in the e-mail that he hoped this would be of help for the development of a DVD player for Linux.

    Johansen has on his side expressed himself negatively about the operating system Linux and the development community tied to this system. On page 45 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from an e-mail of 6th of October 1999 on Livid from a person by the name Michael Holzt. Holzt writes that Johansen allegedly have said that he hates Linux and that he would have been glad if the system was never invented because FreeBSD is much better. On page 47 in the actual excerpt is there a quote from the answer from Johansen where he wrote that he never have said that he hates Linux, but that it doesn't matter if Linux never had been invented because FreeBSD is much better. On page 51 there is a quote from an e-mail of 8th of October 1999 to Livid where Johanse apologizes his attitued in earlier e-mails and writes that he means Linux is a very good operating system, but that FreeBSD is better. On page 458 and 459 in the actual excerpt there is a quote from a printout of an IRC log with a conversation the 8th of October 1999 between Johansen and "the nomad" where Johansen writes that he has sent an apology to Livid, but that it was just to satisfy another person who the court assumes is Derek Fawcus. Johanse writes further:

    "God damned linux fanatics, I wish someone would shoot them ; )"

    Given the context and the explanation Johansen has given during the main negotiations the court bases its decision on that the background for this statement is a conflict between Michael Holzt and Johansen about whether the source code should be publicized, as well as the situation around the transferral of the source code to Fawcus. The court finds that Johansen's statements regarding Linux thus cannot be taken literally and that they don't give any solid grounds for Johansen's relationship to Linux in general. The court therefore means that this correspondence is not sufficient evidence for what intention Johansen had with the development of DeCSS.

    It does however speak against that Johansen's intention was to make a DVD player for Linux that he showed so little interest for this operating system at the time DeCSS was made. It's clear from what is mentioned above that Johansen meant that FreeBSD was a better operating system than Linux. It's further clear from a conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" on IRC quoted on page 506 in the actual excerpt that Johansen as late as 26th of October 1999 did not have Linux installed on any of his computers.

    It further speaks agains that Johansen's intention was the development of a DVD player for Linux that he made DeCSS a Windows program. Johansen has however testified that he did not have enough knowledge about Linux and that there was no support for UDF (the file system on a DVD dict) under this operating system.

    Johansen made DeCSS available on the Internet and was occupied with making the program easy to use by "the average joe", in accordance to page 428 in the actual excerpt which is a printout from an IRC log with a conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" the 5th of October 1999. Johansen has explained that it was neccesary to publicize DeCSS on the Internet so that the program could be tested and errors discovered so that the program could be developed further. The court can however not see that any of the improvements that were made after the 6th of October 1999 further contributed to the development of a DVD player for Linux.

    On page 291 in the actual excerpt there is a quote of a printout of a log from a chatting channel from two conversations the 12th of September 1999 between Johansen and "Robshot". It's clear from the printout that a person calling himself "Wag" means that the chatting channel Johansen is operator in, PCDVD, is solely occupied with pirate copying. In the conversation there is a quote of another conversation between Johansen and "Wag" where Johansen wrote the following to "Wag":

    "and I've got only one thing to say to you, keep out of # PCDVD, we are criminals in there, you don't want to mingle with us."

    On page 366 in the actual excerpt there is a quote of a printout from a log from a chatting channel with a conversation from 25th of September 1999 between Johansen and a person calling himself "Terryben". It's clear from the printout that Johansen wrote the following to "Terryben":

    "so, hehe, we'll be copying dvds i notime when dvd burners drop in $"

    The court finds it difficult to put too much stress on the printouts from the chatting channels with regard to Johansen's intention with the development of DeCSS. The conversations can contain exaggregations, humour and irony, and what is said is not likely well thought through at all times. The court can therefore not base its decision on that the conversations give a correct image of the participators subjective judgements. In spite of this the logs show that the competition with other development communities was a strong driving force behind the development and DeCSS. This is especially shown in page 395, 396, 410, 435, 462, 464, 468 and 521 in the actual excerpt which are printouts from conversation between Johansen and "the nomad" where he repeatedly referred to DoDs development of a decryption program.

    On this background the court does not find it reasonably proved that without any reasonable doubt Johansen's intention with the development and publicizing of the program was to contribute to illegal copying and distribution of DVD movies.

    The court has on this background reached the verdict that Johansen cannot be convicted for having attempted to abet violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase with regard to access to the keys. This holds true even if Johansen was aware that the program could be misused. This will hold true for all who distribute products that can be used legally or illegally.

    Access to the player keys

    The next question the court has to decide upon is whether Johansen can be convicted for violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to the player keys in CSS. If Johansen is to be convicted for violation the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to the player keys there must also in this relation be present a break of a protection or other similar mean that has given unrightful access to these.

    In Ot prp no 35 the condition to "break a protection or by other similar means" is discussed. From page 20 the following is quoted:

    "The department basically agrees with the council of criminal law in that the decision should be articulated so that it only can be applied when the rightholder himself has done something to protect the information against illegal access."

    It is thus required that both the information is actually protected against access and that the purpose of the protection is to prevent illegal access. The court bases its decision on that it doesn't matter how strong the protection is. It must be sufficient that the rightholder has done something to protect the information. The court does on the other size base its decision on that factors that makes the access more difficult cannot be counted as protection in relation to the criminal law 145 second phrase if the intention haven't been to protect against illegal access.

    Johansen has testified and the court bases its decision on that "the nomad" wrote program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS after he had performed reverse engineering of a Xing-player. The questions thuse becomes whether such reverse engineering implied a violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase. Johansen has testified that he with reverse engineering means the analyze a computer program to find out how it works. According to Johansen "the nomad" has understood the decryption algorithm in CSS and written program code for this in a high level language. This code "the nomad" sent to Johansen.

    Reverse engineering is not mentioned in the preparations for the criminal law 145. By the evaluation of the span of the criminal law 145 the legality principle's particular stress on the criminal law's reach must be taken into regard, in accordance to the constitution 96. The supreme court has in two decisions interpreted the criminal law 145 second phrase very narrowly compared to the actual wording, in accordance to Rt 1994 page 1610 and Rt 1995 page 35. Even though the decisions specificaly are about the expression "data", they can be read as a general expression that the criminal law 145 shall be interpreted narrowly.

    Bjorn Bjerke gives in his book "Reverse engineering" of computer programes (1994) on page 23 the following definition of reverse engineering:

    "Reverse engineering is thereby a process in which one gets an understanding about the datas and processes in an existing computer system. The goal is to pull out contents, structure and data flow from existing computer programs and represent this information in a shape well-suited for further analysis and documentation"

    On page 24 and following Bjerke explains the different methods of reverse engineering. Firstly you can read about the program in available manuals and litterature. Secondly you can observe the program at run time. The court finds it obvious that the two first methods does not imply a violation of the criminal law 145. Bjerke describes on page 5 and following the approach used in the third method he calls the dissection method:

    "The dissection method requires that we can read and understand computer programs and thereby pulling out information about the individual machine instructions, their function in shape of a description at a higher level of abstraction, as well as this functions place in the algorithm which describes what the program does. The computer program in its distributed for is in binary code, a long stream of one's and zero's, which contains a lot of "filling information" in addition to the original program.

    Even by use of alphanumerical symbols will the resulting code not give particular meaning, unless one can read machine instructions and data. You can in other words not avoid disassembling the program."

    Bjerke further writes that disassembling means that the object code is transformed into assembly code. Disassembling can be done with a disassmbling program, but one would in addition have to do some testing. The assembler language is very difficult for humans to interpret and decompilation is thus neccesary. Decompilation is the transforming of the assembly code to a high level programming language.

    Based on the description Bjerke has given of reverse engineering, as well as the testimony Johansen has given about how "the nomad" wrote program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS, the court finds it difficult to call this breaking of a protecting or other similar means. The court finds it not proven that a computer program distributed in object code is caused by the producer of the program wanting to protect the source code. The cause could equally well be that the program in object code can be used directly in the computer. The court has therefore decided that the reverse engineering that "the nomad" performed is not in violation with the criminal law 145 second phrase.

    The court finds it proven that the program code Johansen got from "the nomad" contained at least one of the player keys in CSS. The question for the court is thus whether this/these were protected in relation to the criminal law 145 second phrase.

    President in DVD CCA, John Hoy, has explained that keeping the player keys secret was a condition to get license to produce DVD players that could play encrypted movies. This is however not sufficient evidence that all producers actually fulfilled this condition. Johansen has explained that the Xing-player did not have any protection of the player keys. This corresponds to what "the nomad" said to Johansen in the conversation on IRC the 24th of September 1999 quoted on page 394 in the actual excerpt. No evidence is presented showing that keys were protected within the Xing player. The court has therefore based its decision on that there was no break of protection or other similar means in relation to player keys in the Xing player.

    As regards to the rest of the player keys it's clear from page 537 in the actual excerpt that Brian Demsky the 7th of October 1999 made contact with Johansen and explained that he was in the process of finding all of the player keys in CSS with basis in the program code for the decryption algorithm in CSS that Johansen had made available on the Internet the day before. Demsky further wrote: "I'm currently at a key rate of 2.5 million keys/sec/450 mhz". This indicates that he had developed a computer program that made the computer able to guess possible player keys. The basis for the program is the decryption algorithm in DeCSS where Xing keys were present. The court finds that even though this approach does implies breaking a protection or at least is covered by the expression "or by similar means", the break does not give unrightful access to data. The criminal law 145 second phrase does not apply to breaking the protection itself if the protection breaking itself does not lead to the person getting unrightful access to data. As mentioned earlier the court has found that the use of DeCSS on movies that are neither illegally produced or acquired does not imply a violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase.

    As regards to the question about abetting we show to the abovementioned in relation to access to the movie. Also in relation to other's possible use of the player keys to gain unrightful access to information on DVD discs does the court find that Johansen cannot be convicted for attempted abetting. The court thus finds that Johansen neither can be convicted for abetting to violation of the criminal law 145 second phrase in relation to the player keys.

    Johansen is therefore acquitted.

    Withdrawal

    Prosecutor claimed the withdrawal of one PC cabinet Pentium III 500 MHz and 8 [CDs with] miscellanous unlicensed software in accordance to the criminal law 35 second phrase. The court does not find that these objects have been used to har was meant used to perform an illegal act. The claim of withdrawal is therefore not followed.

    Case expenses

    Prosecutor claimed that Johansen should be compelled to pay the case's expenses. Johansen is acquitted and can thus not be compelled to pay the case's expenses, in accordance to the criminal law 436 first phrase.

    All judges agreed on the verdict.

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  99. Bush is above the constitution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The constitution forbids all kinds of things that are going on at the moment. Don't rely on it.

  100. Implication on copy protected 'CDs'? by funkdancer · · Score: 1

    In the Aftenposten article, the following quote near the end caught my interest:
    "...citing Norwegian laws that protect what a consumer can do with his or her own property..."

    Could this mean that copy protected 'CDs' could become illegal in Norway? I.e., the inability to make a copy of a 'CD' (per Phillip's definition it wouldn't be one) I just bought to use it in my car where it could easily be scratched (and they scratch way easily these days!) would clearly restrict my use of a product that is now my property?

    A few good things could come out of this ruling.

    --
    ISO certified == THX certified
  101. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Dirtside · · Score: 2
    Arithmetic according to C: float x = 3.14159; float y = 1/2 * x; Value of y? zero.
    I can't tell if this is facetious or if you think there's really something wrong with C, but I'll explain in case of the latter.

    Order of operations dictates that the 1/2 is resolved before the * x is resolved. 1/2 is 0 in C because 1 and 2 are integer types by default (and you can of course convert them to floats, or use 0.5 instead). So first the code divides (int) 1 by (int) 2, and gets 0. Then, 0 * 3.14159 is still 0. Change it to float y = x * 1/2; and it'll work.

    If you did know this, and were just being silly, then nevermind. :)

    --
    "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
  102. That's right by Gorimek · · Score: 2

    In Sweden, and I'm sure also Norway, either side can appeal a verdict to a higher court. And then appeal that to the supreme court, but they only take special ly significant cases.

    But there is no double jeopardy in the sense that they can't start a new trial from scratch once you've been acquitted.

    1. Re:That's right by ToastyKen · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your actually informative answer, Gorimek. I was getting to think I'd never get one. :P

  103. 400th post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah.

  104. Congrats or Gratulerer by Joey7F · · Score: 2

    Gratulerer means congratulations in Norwegian, so I suggest that we wish Jon a hearty "Gratulerer".

    --Joey

  105. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Alomex · · Score: 2


    Thanks. I do know why it is zero, according to C evaluation rules. My point is that the result is mathematically counterintuitive and hence potentially bug inducing.

  106. Oh yes we have... It's called the E�S by Vintermann · · Score: 1

    Norway has a special arrangement with the EU, along with a few other countries, which gives us access to the EU inner market. In Norway it's called EØS. Part of this agreement forces us to implement certain (all?) EU-directives which we haven't even been voting on :-(
    Not a happy situation, hundreds of directives have been pushed on us. Some are uvery unpopular, like the "food make-up directive", which forces us to allow certain unnecessary (potentially carcinogenic) additives to foodstuffs.
    The debate is about whether the solution is to enter the union to get a vote, or leave the EØS. The EU may force the issue sooner or later, because all but two or three of the countries that were part of the original agreement have already entered the union.

    (pardon my poor research, EØS stands for european economic agreement or something like that. But I don't know what they call it in the EU)

    --
    xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
  107. Re:Hip Hip . . .(not) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wrong.

    A short while after the Norwegian people said no to joining EU in 1994, our dorky politicans joined EØS (Europeisk Økonomisk Samarbeid (or something); European Economic Cooperation) - which basically is just like being a member of EU, without the ability to vote.

    We have thousands of EU laws.

    Fuck parliamentalism:P

  108. DeCSS plug in? by Felinoid · · Score: 2

    So will he now be able to host all the dvd decss plug in's for all the Linux dvd players?

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    I don't actually exist.
  109. Re:Norwegian laws protect what a consumer can do.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your sig is dubious and shows that you do not understand the type promotion rules of C-style languages.

    On the contrary, I understand them perfectly that is why I know the value of y is zero.

    Now, if you think that this result is in any way intuitive, then I'll give you 1/2 million dollars, no questions asked.

  110. Och Aye The GNU by a5cii · · Score: 0

    Just went to library and looked through some Scottish law books (Note:Scottish and English Laws are different), I roughly understood it as If you own it then you can do whatever you want to it and distribute it to your family only.......

  111. Re:FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you mean "Fucking priceless?". If you do, write so. If not, sorry for the inconvenience.