" Thank you for turning what would have been an otherwise informative and interesting post into a "fuck america, and fuck bush" post....Bush is out to colonize the world for it's oil so that we filthy rich and greedy Americans can drive our SUV's built by the starving children of some obscure third-world country. BULLSHIT!"
Well. One thing you'll learn quickly when living in another country is that there is another point of view. And sometimes realizing another perspective exists can help undestand the world a little better.
I'm an ex-pat who's been living in Brazil for two years. There is just as many americans who think the only thing in brazil is carnival, the rainforest and soccer.
However, please relax. People in other countries mostly do not care about Americans and their SUV's - although the debt is a bit ridiculous. They do care about pre-emptive wars that imply colonism - largely forgeting their own history though. And at least in the case, president Lula says often that the its time to stop blaming others for brazils problems - the solutions are inside brazil itself.
Oh, and since the thread is about connectiva - it does have a following here and in the government where I work - but you are just as likely to see suse or redhat.
This type of cynicism is healthy. I myself posted here saying just that about a year ago. This time, However, the facts are against this being merely about negotiations.
I work for the brazillian government. My current projects requirements are %100 software livre. The developers are important, and they are clearly on the side of OSS.
President Lula is making this a political issue. Lula's Chief of Staff, Jose Dirceu, is frequently making public statements in support of OSS. The rabble rousing is playing popular against Microsoft. There is %18 unemployment here in Sao Paulo, yet all the programmers I know are employed. The government knows this well.
While in some cases such as Peru it certainly has been a negotiation tactic, there's one notable difference: The software livre movement here in Brazil is supported by the President in retoric and action. The Peru president sold out the ideas of a lower cabinent the first chance he could.
Not saying Lula couldn't spin on a dime, but it'd be more dificult after he's already spent political capital on the idea.
As a Red Hat user since 4.0, I abandoned the distro after bluecurve was imposed. Considering the percieved abandonment of the end user (I'm writing this from suse 8.2 at work, which I also run at home), is it safe to say that if I don't like bluecurve, I should continue to use another distro?
Agreed. There a culture in the works here. I have to connect to these Cobol/Natural mainframe montrosities with Java and C in the Brazillian government. And those 40 something types who wrote that complex nastiness are now managers with turf to protect.
Need some comic relief? Imagine those same people whose sole purpose is to get the same weekly paycheck, betting their ass by removing those mainframes they love and replacing them with their Windows boxen that get a virus a week..Net? They've never heard of it - Java's been around a lot longer and they haven't even got there yet.
How long is legacy? I`ve seen lots of projects get cancelled trying to replace it.
Brasil is *not* a poor country. I live in Sao Paulo, and there are lots well-to-do people. There is, however, a huge difference between rich and poor. You can say there are lots of poor people and high unemployment. Yet, it still has the 12th highest GNP - hardly a poor country.
On the subject of linux in brasil, I currently work for an IBM partner on a project for the brasillain government. It must be %100 open source. (Its in java though, which is open for a closed standard, but not open source). The commitment is real.
Still, the whole TCO argument must be 1/3 less effective in brazil, because the Brasillian Real is 2.84 per dollar at the moment. Programmers are one of the few high paying and available jobs in Brasil. Open source means more money to hire programmers, a good public works project for public data.
Will Microsoft actually follow thru on their support for the Web Services authentication protocol SAML? SAML is an alternative to.net passport - proving single sign-on. Sun's Liberty supports SAML tokens.
When.net supports SAML, without delaying by reccomending another rubber stamp from ECMA, then I'll take them seriously. Until then...
If moving to a new country was easy, alot more people would do it, especially in hard times.
For me, that hard time was 2001 - I lost my programming job like a lot of people. I travelled. I liked Brazil, knew a girl there I met in europe. I had a toursim visa. I found a job - heard no a lot, but eventually I heard yes. Falling thru the cracks is indeed possible in the third world, especially if the talent matches. Eventually I got married, but it wasn't to work - I proved I could anyways.
My point? Be creative, have perserverence, and make some friends. Doesn't that cover just about anything?
I'm a programmer for the Brazillian federal government as a contractor. My wife's also a doctor.
About the hospitals, the public ones have really long lines but give %100 free service. If you have insurance, the better hospitals (fleury and einstein in sao paulo) are on par with anything I've experienced in the states. Extreme cases are just that, out of context.
As for the general issue of free software in brazil, well, java is huge here - open for a closed standard but not exactly free (as in speech). Another important point is that IBM has, if not all, most government contracts for development - I'm actually working for an IBM partner. On the positive side, tomcat/apache, eclipse, linux (even on the desktop) are all essential parts of the picture.
Rio consumer Paulo Henrique Andrade won, in the first round of court appearences, an action against the company that produced Marisa Monte [Ed. very popular Brazillian artist], EMI record company and the Sony factory, for supposedly having been wronged in the purchase of the CD "Tribalistas".
Andrade confirmed that his disc, bought legally, didn't work when playing the cd in his car stereo, also aquired legitimently. The deposit of anti-piracy technology on the cd was the cause.
The 6th civil court of Rio determined that companies involved replace the CD and pay R$1000 {Ed. ~U$314] EMI already appealed.
If confirmed, the given sentance will generate momentum for those opposed to copy-control technology, already included by EMI in all of their releases, with the objective to prevent illegal copies of their discs by computers.
The vice president of EMI, Luiz Bannitz, confirmed that problems are inevitable with any new technology. "The consumer complains, we change the product. But its regretful that certain users use that as a form of extortion against us."
Marisa Monte, owner within Phonomotor, that launched the CD, has kept silent about the case.
Sorry replying to myself but I had formatting problems.
As someone who is a software engineer for the Brazillian government in São Paulo, I feel compelled to reply.
Open source is widely used and discussed as an option in almost every reguard. Yet virtually all server-based apps are run on solaris. In most cases you can choose to run linux on the desktop - some even choose bsd. Eclipse is fastly becomming universal. Yet virtually all development is being done in Java - pretty open for a closed standard but not exactly open source. Simple decrees will be hard to change that culture.
It is my belief that the increasing amount of developers believing software livre is kool will have more impact than any law. I don't believe that software livre is really going to save much money as claimed because of wide piracy. Saying Public governments should use publicly available tools makes more sense to me. But seeing those numbers explains how the Secretaria de Fazenda do Rio (Rio IRS) created those swiss bank accounts.
Slashdot Mirror
Well. One thing you'll learn quickly when living in another country is that there is another point of view. And sometimes realizing another perspective exists can help undestand the world a little better.
I'm an ex-pat who's been living in Brazil for two years. There is just as many americans who think the only thing in brazil is carnival, the rainforest and soccer.
However, please relax. People in other countries mostly do not care about Americans and their SUV's - although the debt is a bit ridiculous. They do care about pre-emptive wars that imply colonism - largely forgeting their own history though. And at least in the case, president Lula says often that the its time to stop blaming others for brazils problems - the solutions are inside brazil itself.
Oh, and since the thread is about connectiva - it does have a following here and in the government where I work - but you are just as likely to see suse or redhat.
Software livre ou morte!
iksrazal
I work for the brazillian government. My current projects requirements are %100 software livre. The developers are important, and they are clearly on the side of OSS.
President Lula is making this a political issue. Lula's Chief of Staff, Jose Dirceu, is frequently making public statements in support of OSS. The rabble rousing is playing popular against Microsoft. There is %18 unemployment here in Sao Paulo, yet all the programmers I know are employed. The government knows this well.
While in some cases such as Peru it certainly has been a negotiation tactic, there's one notable difference: The software livre movement here in Brazil is supported by the President in retoric and action. The Peru president sold out the ideas of a lower cabinent the first chance he could.
Not saying Lula couldn't spin on a dime, but it'd be more dificult after he's already spent political capital on the idea.
Software livre ou morte!
iksrazal
As a Red Hat user since 4.0, I abandoned the distro after bluecurve was imposed. Considering the percieved abandonment of the end user (I'm writing this from suse 8.2 at work, which I also run at home), is it safe to say that if I don't like bluecurve, I should continue to use another distro?
Agreed. There a culture in the works here. I have to connect to these Cobol/Natural mainframe montrosities with Java and C in the Brazillian government. And those 40 something types who wrote that complex nastiness are now managers with turf to protect.
Need some comic relief? Imagine those same people whose sole purpose is to get the same weekly paycheck, betting their ass by removing those mainframes they love and replacing them with their Windows boxen that get a virus a week. .Net? They've never heard of it - Java's been around a lot longer and they haven't even got there yet.
How long is legacy? I`ve seen lots of projects get cancelled trying to replace it.
iksrazal
On the subject of linux in brasil, I currently work for an IBM partner on a project for the brasillain government. It must be %100 open source. (Its in java though, which is open for a closed standard, but not open source). The commitment is real.
Still, the whole TCO argument must be 1/3 less effective in brazil, because the Brasillian Real is 2.84 per dollar at the moment. Programmers are one of the few high paying and available jobs in Brasil. Open source means more money to hire programmers, a good public works project for public data.
iksrazal
Will Microsoft actually follow thru on their support for the Web Services authentication protocol SAML? SAML is an alternative to .net passport - proving single sign-on. Sun's Liberty supports SAML tokens.
When .net supports SAML, without delaying by reccomending another rubber stamp from ECMA, then I'll take them seriously. Until then...
For me, that hard time was 2001 - I lost my programming job like a lot of people. I travelled. I liked Brazil, knew a girl there I met in europe. I had a toursim visa. I found a job - heard no a lot, but eventually I heard yes. Falling thru the cracks is indeed possible in the third world, especially if the talent matches. Eventually I got married, but it wasn't to work - I proved I could anyways.
My point? Be creative, have perserverence, and make some friends. Doesn't that cover just about anything?
iksrazal
About the hospitals, the public ones have really long lines but give %100 free service. If you have insurance, the better hospitals (fleury and einstein in sao paulo) are on par with anything I've experienced in the states. Extreme cases are just that, out of context.
As for the general issue of free software in brazil, well, java is huge here - open for a closed standard but not exactly free (as in speech). Another important point is that IBM has, if not all, most government contracts for development - I'm actually working for an IBM partner. On the positive side, tomcat/apache, eclipse, linux (even on the desktop) are all essential parts of the picture.
iksrazal
Andrade confirmed that his disc, bought legally, didn't work when playing the cd in his car stereo, also aquired legitimently. The deposit of anti-piracy technology on the cd was the cause.
The 6th civil court of Rio determined that companies involved replace the CD and pay R$1000 {Ed. ~U$314] EMI already appealed.
If confirmed, the given sentance will generate momentum for those opposed to copy-control technology, already included by EMI in all of their releases, with the objective to prevent illegal copies of their discs by computers.
The vice president of EMI, Luiz Bannitz, confirmed that problems are inevitable with any new technology. "The consumer complains, we change the product. But its regretful that certain users use that as a form of extortion against us."
Marisa Monte, owner within Phonomotor, that launched the CD, has kept silent about the case.
iksrazal
Sorry replying to myself but I had formatting problems.
As someone who is a software engineer for the Brazillian government in São Paulo, I feel compelled to reply.
Open source is widely used and discussed as an option in almost every reguard. Yet virtually all server-based apps are run on solaris. In most cases you can choose to run linux on the desktop - some even choose bsd. Eclipse is fastly becomming universal. Yet virtually all development is being done in Java - pretty open for a closed standard but not exactly open source. Simple decrees will be hard to change that culture.
Still, the media I've read is not showing direct quotes from high level officials. The IT minister is quoted as speaking in the name of (chief of staff) ministro José Dirceu, and even that President Lula has stated software livre is "polÃtica pÃblica de governo". Pretty loftly claims from a lower level official - hope they are true but still as yet are unconfiremed in higher places recently.
It is my belief that the increasing amount of developers believing software livre is kool will have more impact than any law. I don't believe that software livre is really going to save much money as claimed because of wide piracy. Saying Public governments should use publicly available tools makes more sense to me. But seeing those numbers explains how the Secretaria de Fazenda do Rio (Rio IRS) created those swiss bank accounts.
iksrazal
Pode ler portuguÃs?
http://www.softwarelivre.org/
The first article explains the situation nicely.
Now if I could just land an open source development job in Rio and hang out with some of those topless Brazilians.
I did.
apinfo.com
Vagas is portugÃes for vacancies. And while only a few of those girls are topless, they all are a great way to learn the language.
iksrazal
As someone who is a software engineer for the Brazillian government in São Paulo, I feel compelled to reply. Open source is widely used and discussed as an option in almost every reguard. Yet virtually all server-based apps are run on solaris. In most cases you can choose to run linux on the desktop - some even choose bsd. Eclipse is fastly becomming universal. Yet virtually all development is being done in Java - pretty open for a closed standard but not exactly open source. Simple decrees will be hard to change that culture. Still, the media I've read is not showing direct quotes from high level officials. The IT minister is quoted as speaking in the name of (chief of staff) ministro José Dirceu, and even that President Lula has stated software livre is "polÃtica pÃblica de governo". Pretty loftly claims from a lower level official - hope they are true but still as yet are unconfiremed in higher places. It is my belief that the increasing amount of developers believing software livre is kool will have more impact than any law. I don't believe that software livre is really going to save much money as claimed. Public governments using publicly available tools makes more sense to me. But seeing those numbers explains how the Secretaria de Fazenda do Rio (Rio IRS) created those swiss bank accounts. iksrazal