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EMI and Sony Lose Lawsuit Over Crippled Music Disks
neves writes "A brazilian consumer has sued EMI and Sony, and won! The reason was a copy protection technology in the best seller album "Tribalistas" that didn't play in his car. You can read about it in Folha de São Paulo (babelfish translation here), brazilian biggest newspaper. They must be very afraid, since EMI vice-president defended the company himself in a lawsuit involving less than US$ 350,00. A more detailed report is in my music site Agenda do Samba & Choro (babelfish here), where we release some of the lawsuit files to make it easier for others to sue them. Since last year, we are calling for a boycott (babelfish) of copy protected albums. The companies appealed, and said that they will take the case to the Supreme Court, because it is a 'question of principles'. The consumer is sueing them again, because all new EMI albums in Brazil are being released with copy protection and won't work in his car."
how the the indutry's seep pockets didn't help them in court ( at least in Brazil).
You love t.
Yeah! Fsck records anticopy!
so if I hook wheels to my G4, I can sue too?
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
Well, as you US guys don't matter for us brazilians, we too don't matter about you guys, so...
If you find that this process is little thing, the recorders you do not agree.
I'd like to read the articles, but...
--RJ
I didn't know the goatse guy made music...
and ?
I didnt realize the only things that matter
in the world happen in the US.
Yeah, but if selling these defective CDs becomes illegal in Brazil, USians could always import all their music from there if they want to be guaranteed error-free CDs.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
August or September is marked for the third album of Otto, already baptized "Without Gravity"
Well if you put Holy Water on your CDs what do you think's gonna happen when you try and play them!?
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
This shows one of the main limitations of the laissez-faire capitalism that USia endorses over the more rational policies implemented in the rest of the world. When corporations are as unfettered as they are in USia, getting them to agree on things like CD-ROM standards is a herculean task - each corporation is assured that it has the One True path.
In Brazil OTOH they're more used to being told what to do by more socialist governments, and the idea of a standard is more easily applicable to the way they work within regulations anyway.
Thank God someone had the initiative to actually do something about this! My only contribution has been to vote with my wallet, not purchasing any music that comes in a crippled format and encourage others to do the same. As much as I hate the "just sue them" philosophy, it seems to have worked in this case. Perhaps the time has come for us to vote with our lawyers rather than our wallets.
...he's suing them because all the music was in another language!
..President George Bush has recently announced that the CIA and FBI have received "reliable information" from Microsoft and the RIAA indicating that Saddam Hussein has relocated to Brazil, hotbed of godless Communism and Linux supporters, where he is currently setting up WMD factories with funding from Osama Bin Laden, who is expected to be arriving there shortly to personally oversee the distribution.
The President has announced that he is specifically not taking the nuclear option off the table, though he declined to comment further on what exactly he meant by this.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
EMI has just lost a trial about copy-protected CD's in France too (and the consumer association behind it is now suing Sony and BMG).
you can read the complete article at : http://linuxfr.org/2003/06/26/13036.html/ (in french)
(nt)
I hope it does go to the supreme court so we can get rid of these CDs that infringe on my rights.
Your rights, such as they are, are outlined in the license agreement that you accept. If you do not accept the license agreement, you have no right to use the music. If you use it anyway, you are a felon. This crime is far worse than rape or murder, because it strikes at the heart of the system of natural incentives which drives our free economy. Any "rights" that the vendor chooses to grant you are gifts, pure and simple, and you certainly have not earned them. The vendor has sunk millions of dollars of capital into developing the product. They have every right to expect a return on this investment, and the fact they are generously allowing you to use the music at all is more than you probably deserve. Your role in this culture is to pay them for the work performed by their employees, who are damned lucky to have jobs (and almost certainly don't appreciate it). Pay up and shut up.
These "rights" of the "consumer" are like the "rights" of women or animals; it's an absurdity on the face of it. Slashdot has no business wasting our time with this leftist garbage. It says up there "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." Is that what this is? Decidedly not. Competent "nerds" (technical people) are by definition conservative Libertarians, for two reasons: First, they are productive individuals and the principle of rational self-interest proves that they will not support the socialists. Second, they are by definition intelligent and logical people (they work with logic all day, do they not?) and therefore they cannot be fooled by liberal myths and nonsense like so-called "heliocentric" cosmology, "evolution", or the redistribution of wealth (organized coercive parasitism). A leftist nerd is a contradiction in terms, and therefore cannot exist.
Im not touching that with a ten-foot pole !! Why the f@#!$ di you use tinyurl ??/ Heres the real link http://www.allbrazilianmusic.com/en/reviews/review s.asp?Status=MATERIA&Nu_Critica=855
But the music will be in Brazillian.
Hmm... Wonder what I could do with 350,00 dollars? I'd probably try to purchase that extra zero.
I would be interested in knowing as to what the logical reasoning and the legal framework of the case was.
Was the winning based on something substantial, or could it be just overcome by the CD producer putting up a disclaimer sticker on the CD saying the "this might not work on certain devices." Basically the intention is to understand the depth of the victory.
Could somebody help with some links or any more info??
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
Copy protection is like the war on drugs. It doesn't work. It's been tried for at least 20 years and the problem has only gotten worse. Remeber code wheels? And then the classic "page 36, paragraph 3, line 7, word 2". It only serves to make life more difficult for the legitimate user.
The real solution to stop piracy is to drop the prices on software, music, and movies to a reasonable amount. A friend of mine was offered a free copy of Windows XP and turned it down because he got such a large student discount (I think $20) that it didn't matter to him. Before anyone points out loss of profit from discounted prices, if more people acutally BUY these things at a discount instead of grabbing them off Kazza, these companies would make the same money that they do today.
----
Squirrel
The way I look at this
US$ 350.00 - A little bit of money, but waste of time
US$ 350,000 - A lot of money, well worth the lawsuit
US$ 35,000 - A fair bit, still worth the lawsuit
BUT WHAT THE HELL IS US$ 350,00
-isolenz
Maybe this is a joke, but... ... be considered, in all actuality, as a violation of the DMCA? you are informing people of a way to violate copyright protection schemes.
Wouldn't your posting this information on slashdot:
"buy your CD's from Brazil in order to get media that isn't crippled"
Just a thought.
FREENET=FREESPEECH
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
The companies appealed, and said that they will take the case to the Supreme Court, because it is a 'question of principles'.
It is difficult for me to read this sentence and not be a little angry at its blatant hypocrisy. "Principles" indeed:
The vice-president of EMI, Bannitz Luiz, affirms that she is inevitable will happen problems in situations of implantation of new technologies. "the consumer complains, we changes the product. But it is lamentable that certain people use this as extortion form "
Right, because not being able to listen to a CD in my car is an "inevitable problem." And suing them because I can't do this is "extortion." Exactly what principles do these companies subscribe to? (Don't answer.)
The only principle involved here is an affirmation of one's rights as a consumer.
The coolest voice ever.
They must be very afraid...
This will be a small victory, but I don't know how much of a long term effect this will have. Certianly, this won't have much of an impact in the United States or elsewhere.
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
I was in Brazil in March and I almost bought the Tribalistas CD when I saw the notice that it was copy protected.
If I can't copy the songs to my MP3 player, I won't buy the damn thing. I imagine they've lost a lot of sales.
By the way, all of Tribalista's songs are available in Kazaa, proving copy protection doesn't work. Talk about the medicine being worst than the disease.
mod up
Who's the dipshit that rated this "informative"?
I haven't read the story, but this bloke is on the right track. When we buy music CD's, we are in fact purchasing a license to listen to the audio content, along with a fee for the media the licensed content is supplied on. What we end up owning is the media, and a perpetual license to listen to the content. If the media becomes damaged, our license to listen to the content is still valid. Therefore, we should be able to duplicate the content ro protect our investment in the license fee we have paid to listen to it. In summary, we are paying to listen to the music, not the media it is supplied on. By not allowing us to protect our investment, we are in fact being ripped-off. I for one, wish that more people would realise this. If they did, then perhaps more people would start to take a stance to protect their rights, when they realise that we are in fact being ripped off. The real pirates are the companies who are forcing us to purchase multiple licenses to listen to music, for which we have already paid. We need to make the courts, and policitians aware of this double-dipping that is being snuck in under the guise of "protection from pirates" In my view "Media Pirates", are people who duplicate and sell for profit, not individuals who are simply trying to listen to something they have paid a license for.
Brazil has really got EMI by the macarenas.
3y3 4m t3h b3$t tr011 3v3r!!!!!111 lolol stupid slashdot mods. just give up. the trolls win.
Consumers are copying music ... No es nada
Music company puts in anti-piracy system ... Who cares
You can't play music in you car while trying to seduce the seniorita ... LAWSUIT! Revolución!
-- the only thing we have to fear is really scary things
I said it before, and I'll say it again - there's nothing wrong with copy-protected CDs - as long as they're clearly labeled as such. Label them and let the consumers decide, I say. Cases like this should really fall under false-advertising precedents.
c-hack.com |
Babelfish translation too much in story is.
Reading article i not can.
Like Yoda speaking am.
Help.
Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
Obviously SCO has caused some inspiration! ;-)
Translation: Brazillian case law means little *TO ME*.
Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
the pun doesn't translate itself well. a pity, I was laughing to guffaws.
However, its perfectly acceptable to insult their lineage, mock the size of their respective genitalia, and generally make them feel inferior to you in every way, which, of course, they are =).
I'd be surprised if something like this managed to happen in the US though. Theres to much lean and sway in the judicial system for megacorps. If it did happen however, I can only liken Sony and EMI to a three year old sent outside into the world's largest hailstorm/tornado that hit a razor blade factory. Megacorp-Puree' anyone?
Mod Points: Helping you keep your opinion to yourself.
I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning, really I do.
On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
would "Playing disabled music disc" be any better?
No.
Sec 103 of the DMCA amends Title 17 of the U.S. Code to prohibit circumvention of a technological measure that effective controls access to a work.
It then goes on to define the relevant terms thusly:
"(A) to 'circumvent a technological measure' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and
(B) a technological measure 'effectively controls access to a work' if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work."
or 3.5E2 in /. terminology.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
All CD's I want to buy I take them to the cashier. Then I check if they have the mention "CD Audio" and if not or if it says "wont play on PC" I leave them there with the comment that those don't work on my system and that I'll download them as MP3 from the Internet instead :-)
Shop will have to put them back themselves. It's their fault if they sell faulty items.
Atari rules... ermm... ruled.
A copy-protected 'CD' is a contradiction in terms.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
I went along to a show last week, where the artist was performing songs off his latest, copy-protected CD. After the show, there was a stall selling his CDs at the back, so went back to check it out.
Sure enough, out he came to sign copies of his CD for those who were going to buy a copy. I worked my way to the front with a copy of his CD in hand, and handed it over. I pointed out the copy protection notice, then said "although I really liked your show and your new stuff, I'm not going to buy a copy of your CD since I can't play it on my PC or in my car".
He looked a bit shocked, and asked what I was talking about. I said that the copy protection would prevent me from playing the CD on my PC or in my car, and that since that was where I listen to music 99% of the time, his CD wouldn't be much use to me. I handed him one of my business cards and told him to call me if he wanted to talk about it further - there was a bunch of people behind me waiting for their CDs to be signed...
I got the impression that he either didn't know his CD was released copy protected, that he wasn't sure what copy protection actually meant for a CD, or that he was surprised that someone like me (a 40 year old, normal looking guy, not an obviously raving half-wit) would confront him with something like this after his show.
I also got the impression that he was going to look into it further - he's a 40ish guy also, with a fairly niche appeal and presumably wife/kids/mortgage etc. like the rest of us. He probably didn't like hearing a fan tell him people couldn't play his music in the car or at their PC.
I'll check out his CD in the stores again in another month or so to see if it's had the copy protection removed.
just most of the things that matter happen here then the rest of the world tries to be like us and at the same time hate us.
and I'll challenge the law for you.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
What would be a reasonable fine for the music corporations to pay?
Given that they recently forced a student to pay over his life savings, the vile evil filth should have the same done to them -- force them to turn over all their assets, including all their money, property and intellectiual property.
as it answers the question! informative
605413? Yes, it's a prime.
"The consumer is sueing them again, because all new EMI albums in Brazil are being released with copy protection and won't work in his car."
I'm regularly plagued with software that has been written by Windows-centric morons that won't work on my machine. Can I sue them? Can I sue Microsoft for all those buggy FrontPage-generated web pages?
More seriously, If I used NTFS using non-MS file servers, could I sue MS for tweaking their version of Kerberos so my file servers don't work with XP? (Caveat - my understanding of that situation is minimal, I may have stated it incorrectly. But the idea...)
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Isn't "brazillian" officially called Portuguese ?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Probably Brazilian readers find it meaningful
When were really pissed off about someone or some company...
"Lets beat them with a dead cat until it meows".
Damn! I just bought a Sony! Ive been had!
Your Rights Online: EMI and Sony Lose Lawsuit Over Crippled Music Disks
Music Disks?
Ahem. Compact Discs, Hard Disk Drives. It's not that hard to get right.
I'm sure someone will mod this down as flamebait but, seriously, would it kill the editors to do their jobs and actually edit the articles that get posted?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Comment removed based on user account deletion
An irony of "standardization" is that that some of the pro-open standards crowd insists on using the comma-to-indicate-decimals notation that has is used essentially only in northern europe. it's time for that convention to die.
Since when is Brazil in northern Europe?
The Irony of America is that they think that they way they do everything is the "right" way. Kinda like you bitching that some "idiots" measure stuff in Metric.
The comma as seperator is far more prevalent than "just" in Northern Europe. I think it'd be safe to say a large portion the population of the world uses it.
Department of Homeland Security: Removing the rights real patriots fought and died for since 2001
no. the politically-correct term is "differently-abled" music disc.
It seems to be the developing countries that "get it" and make legislative and legal decisions which are in the interests of the public at large, as opposed to multinational cartels. What we really need is for many such countries to pull together and speak with one voice when it comes to international trade. Our system will only be fixed when you get a lot of people really pissed off. If the RIAA runs around suing college kids for astronomical sums of money, and enough people get stuck with CDs that won't play, then it will raise the visibility level enough to get this on the front burner.
I am strongly in favour of globalization, but it must be done with the interests of the public, instead of large vested interests. That means doing away with crap such as region coded DVDs and damaging tariffs. I should be able to travel whatever products I choose from anywhere I want, excepting only really offensive stuff like narcotics and weaponry.
My rights don't need management.
Does this mean it's OK to call differently abled people cripples again? They did such a good job of making PC the norm, and now risk riddicule again by taking offense to something that has nothing to do with them.
It's very hard to take an eraser to the american lexicon, especially when you keep drawing attention to it.
O paciente passa bem após a cirurgia. (The patient is doing well after surgery.)
Clicking last week on Googles automatic translation:
The patient passes well after surgery.
My condolences...
If all Slashdot readers were like you, all we'd get in the message forums would be:
"Hundreds of fileswappers being sued by the RIAA means nothing in Malaysia."
"US-China space race? Duh, I'm not American or Chinese, so this is a useless article!"
Please.
Except that I'm not an American. Still, your gratuitous anti-american comment fits in well in slashdot, the land of gratuitous slander.
What percentage of the world do you think still uses the comma separator? I estimate that is less than 15%. Asia does not. North America does not. Much of europe does not. Even my german research colleagues don't use it in their academic work any more (though they are an international group and may be a bit of an exception).
I'm sure someone will mod this down as flamebait but, seriously, would it kill the editors to do their jobs and actually edit the articles that get posted?
/Watches self as he adds to the meaningless series of posts about this.
The editors should left the ",00" off of "$350" also. I swear, half of the comments are about that. It's been educational and all, and that's how the poster posted it because he/she's probably from a country where that's the decimal separator, but the fact that the suit was an exact dollar amount is irrelevant to the story, and should have been left out. A more meaningful set of conversation threads probably would have resulted.
If Europe is stagnating why is the euro going up?
I dont understand, please explain it to me.
I am living in Europe (Frankfurt am Main) right now and I am paid in US Dollars, which is not good. I wish I was paid in Euros!
Well most of the things do. Sorry if that's unsettling for you.
It's called Portuguese in English speaking countries and the USA.
605413? Yes, it's a prime.
For every single article appearing on /. that uses the very common European notation, there's always half a dozen idiots that think they're being funny about the comma thing.
...I'd me modded down as -1 JACKASS. And rightly so.
If I were to start posting:
"Hey, we use commas to separate decimals in my country. So that kid was sued for 12 dollars by the RIAA! Har, har har!!!!"
Actually there IS something wrong with this. Making a CD 'Copy Protected' this way is essentially the equivalent of digitally 'scratching' some or all areas of the CD -right- up to the point that another light scratch will make most CD players start to skip. Computers and computer-like devices will start to choke earlier (which is the point, I suppose) but 'real' audio players can't read the audio properly either and GUESS (often not exactly correctly) what the audio should be. This definately causes audible differences between the source recording and what will come out of your CD player. (high-frequency nuances will be the first to go since CD players do the audio equivalent of 'smoothing' or 'blurring') And, as said, CD's have always been advertised as being (somewhat) scratch resistant, the media that will last a lifetime! Won't you be surprised when you leave your CD out-of-the-box on the table once and pick it up carelessly. How Ironic that after a year the copy you nabbed off this week's napster clone and burned to CD could sound a lot better than an 'original'. Anyway, copy protection clearly violates a few Dutch laws that state (essentially) that buying something is entering into a contract with fair expectations. Non-technical minded people do not expect a CD to be mutilated and not damage resistant when they buy them. Since that is what record companies do not tell you. I hope that a lot of people will take legal action here.
Unless a guarantee was made that these CDs would work in his car CD player (which there may have been, I don't know), this guy really has no room to complain. Companies don't have an obligation to make products that suit you perfectly, you know.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
No Music Disks. ed got it right.
The music pigopolists are now referring to 'Music Disk' so they don't get caught on a technicalilty about redbook CD standard compliance, and loosing their case before it starts - misrepresentation is bad when consumers complain.
The courts should then say something about such protected music. Royalties are lowly taxed for works of art, that also infer certain rights to the owner. If protected, then the product becomes a 'product', and FULL taxation should apply - as its not a royalty thing anymore.
Now the Misic Co's could withdraw all redbook CD sales from Brazil, but then the consumer could serve a letter of demand off the music company to supply, and after a couple months of waiting (inability to supply) make or purloin his own copies.
You wonder why the Brazillian minister does not hint 'You treat us as a third world country flogging adulterated product, and you had better expect us ONLY to enforce action against like goods sold in YOUR country' - ie blind eye mode to crippled CD knockoffs.
With good reason too. It will cost a shitload of foreign currency to supply every Brazillian with an old CD player, with a new 'Music' player for the next 40-50 years. National pride issues at stake too.
In principle, 'not of merchantable quality' 'unfit for use' sping to mind under the British sales of Goods act. They guy should also ask for an 'injunction' restraining publication of 'noncompliant music disks.
If you seriously believe that the Democrats wouldn't do the same, you need to wake up and smell the fucking coffee.
Stop the partisanship and recognize that both parties have serious issues.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
MORONIC with IRONIC.
5.) ???
6.) Profit!!!
What most people don't realize is the different reality that Brazil represents. Down here you better take care and protect your own business and interests, there's a lack of the sense of community, people and government are not part of each other and even the people side is formed of independent slices who live very different lifes almost like in parallel universes. Wages have no relation what so ever to taxes or the general cost of living, gasoline for instance is something that Brazil produces 80%+ of it's internal demand, yet it the government charges it's own people about DOUBLE the price you would pay in the US. Add to that the fact that the minimum wage is the amount which the majority of Brazilians have to live off is equivalent to about 1/10th of the American $5 / hour. Regarding the music industry, in Brazil over 70% of all CDs sold are PIRATED COPIES mostly found at street vendors or even at some very well known shopping malls. The situation is so out of control that is becoming somewhat difficult to find a music retailer like was so common in the 80's - early 90's. You can buy ANY CD down here for R$5.00 or about $1.75 US Dollars, that includes Brazilian and international music discs and any software or movie you can think of. That's all available in every street corner of all the major cities. Imagine that, it beats all the golden arches and 7 elevens put together. Now if you take that into consideration you might start to appreciate why artist and music labels down here are even considering that route. I DON'T think copy protection is the answer and I am not preaching for it, I just want to make sure some of you out there hear the other side of the story and become aware of that fact that we are talking about a country were every citizen and company are left to fend for themselves. Brazilian laws should not affect American justice and if it ever does you will all be in deeeeeeeeep 5H1T Sorry for the rant and the bad grammar.
Corporations inside the united states are also supposed to serve the public interest. that USED to be important. One of the reasons we had a revolution was because the english corporations were gouging the people here, so we revolted. check the history of the english east indies company and the boston tea party. Corporations are supposed to be GRANTED a license to incorporate, it's not an automatic "right" they have to a collective of people to form an artificial person with any "rights". INDIVIDUALS, human beings have born-with rights, organizations of people organized for the purpose of conducting some business have duties and responsibilities and it's a granted license after application, and do NOT have born with rights because their corporation is a fiction, it's an artificial person, and a long time ago a few judges got bribed by them for them to say their corporation was "alive" and had "personhood".
The deal is, it's too easy and hardly ever have corporations been dissolved, which is also the right of the government (meaning we the people) to do. IF we did that easier and according to law,when these artificial person corporations cease being of the public benefit because of excessive profiteering, we wouldn't be seeing all these abuses and gougings. We regulate commerce in this nation, so YES, we could easily decide if a company was violating the terms of the corporate charter by "making too much profit", ie, "gouging" the people and by so gouging would be in violation of being of benefit to society, and that definetly falls under morals and ethics. that's reason we have so many problems now, attitudes such as you espouse, where "profit" is the ONLY factor in an incorporation. It is ONE factor, but that's the one seized on, but it's not supposed to be the only factor.
For an obvious example, Microsoft needs their corporate charter dissolved, IMO, blatant long running gouging and selling broken software and committing felonius acts. These large music and movie companies, again, chronic serial price gouging and actually engaging in fraud and deceit and bribery (payola). They should have been dissolved a long time ago and the boards of directors chucked in the pokye and disallowed from being in any other corporations, ever. And corporations donating money to political campaio\gns? That's pure bribery, anyone can see that, illegal as all get out. Buying votes, it should be illegal as hell and the ones who engage in it strung up as traitors, both the recipients and the givers. I'm completely serious,struing up, hung, treason charges, this "bribery as legal" is insane, it's nuts, it makes a mockery of the vote, and now we have a professiobnal class of politicians who's sole job is to garnner as much bribe money as possible, then to use slick PR advertising and controlling the government as a shared junta to make sure they stay in their positions to be bribed. We need to lose that stuff, like yesterday, and rein in these out of control INTERNATIONAL -not "US" but international- corporations who gouge the US citizen. Do that to a few hundred or so of the most abusive corporations and corporate/government crooks posing as "leaders", and the honest ones could make the money then, still be profitable, and consumers wouldn't be taken all the time, and the nation as a whole would be better off.
The other way, the way it's run now, is some weird form of international corporate anarchy based on bribes and blackmail mostly, it doesn't exist inside our constitutional framework, much as some people think it says that. The US is not organized anarchy, it's a union of organized individuals and states, based around that union, organized for some modicum of common good and benefit, defense, and trade. But the trade is supposed to not only be profitable for the companies and indidividuals inside those companies, but ALSO good for the nation,it's SUPPOSED to be an equal deal there, ie, they are SUPPOSED to look out for the nation, not just their international "bottom line". That's not to say they can't make m
"Brazilian" is a language mutually intelligible with "Portuguese".
To many linguists such as Dr. John McWhorter (author of The Power of Babel, ISBN: 0716744732), "a language" and "a dialect" are synonymous. Defining "language" as a set of mutually intelligible dialects fails because mutual intelligibility happens on a gradient. It's possible for A and B to be mutually intelligible, and so B and C, and so C and D, but not A and D. Chickasaw and Choctaw "languages" are mutually intelligible but called separate "languages" because they were spoken by nations with separate armies when they were first recognized by linguists of European descent. The reason English is a "language" and Ebonics is called a "dialect" is that Ebonics doesn't have a department of defense behind it.
Will I retire or break 10K?
No, but id Software might sue you for trademark infringement.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Like other bipartisan bills, the DMCA and the Bono Act would have passed even if then President Clinton had vetoed it. Both bills passed each house by a voice vote, which takes 80.1 percent of each house. (The Constitution provides that 20 percent of either house can force a full vote in that house.) Overriding a veto takes only 66.7 percent of each house.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Venal States of America
>> Translation: Brazillian case law means little *TO ME*.
:-) accurate translation:
More or less
Noise: Consumer wins suit over "Tribalistas"
Consumer from Rio_de_Janeiro state Paulo Henrique Andrade won, on a first trial, a suit against Marisa Montes agent company, EMI records and Sony manufacturing, for supposedly having damages from buying the "Tribalistas" CD.
Andrade states that his disc, legally bought, didnt work in his cars CD player, also purchased in a legal way. An anti-piracy device would be the cause.
The 6th Special Civil Tribunal (?) ruled that the companies replace the copy and pay an indemnization of R$ 1000 [about US$ 350, equivalent to 2 car CD players here] to the consumer. EMI has already appealed.
If maintained, the sentence would provide legal basis for those who oppose the "controlled copying" technology, already incorporated by EMI in all of its releases, aimed at inhibiting illegal computer-made copies of its discs.
EMIs vice-president, Luiz Bannitz, says problems are unavoidable in situations of new technologies deployment. "The consumer complains, we replace the product. But its regrettable that certain people use that as a way to extort", he complains.
Marisa Monte, owner of the Phonomotor label [and singer in the Tribalistas trio], which released the CD, remains silent about the case.
--
The rest is news about other CD/albums releases, apparently unrelated to the suit.
It's called an indictment for conspiracy. How about the clown who conspired to produce devices to watch DishTV for free? Going to jail for 5 years and $500/month fine for not selling a single infringing device, but could have in the future.
Since when is Brazil in northern Europe?
Brazil was settled by Portuguese people. The culture of Brazil derives heavily from the culture of Portugal. So Brazil is "essentially" northern European.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Maybe if the masses went out and bought a known protected CD when it came out then returned it immediately. This would not only send an anonymous message about your position on this practice, but it may give the record execs a false sense of the recording's popularity, at least for the short term.
I did something similar when I purchased a Zombie album at Wal-Mart only to find it was the edited version when I unwrapped it. But I just couldn't bring myself to touch the Celine Dion CD when it was discovered to be protected. Can you play these things backwards?
Maybe the day will come when I will have a chance to buy a CD from the RIAA, at least when they start producing honest to god (and Philips) CDs.
Andrade confirmed that his disc, bought legally, didn't work when playing the cd in his car stereo, also aquired legitimently. The deposit of anti-piracy technology on the cd was the cause.
The 6th civil court of Rio determined that companies involved replace the CD and pay R$1000 {Ed. ~U$314] EMI already appealed.
If confirmed, the given sentance will generate momentum for those opposed to copy-control technology, already included by EMI in all of their releases, with the objective to prevent illegal copies of their discs by computers.
The vice president of EMI, Luiz Bannitz, confirmed that problems are inevitable with any new technology. "The consumer complains, we change the product. But its regretful that certain users use that as a form of extortion against us."
Marisa Monte, owner within Phonomotor, that launched the CD, has kept silent about the case.
iksrazal
oh my, there exist anyone more egocentric then an american ?
If they don't put the Compact Disc logo, I don't know if they did or not but they probably did.
Consumers are copying music ... Bah..
... O que ? Bah..
Music company puts in anti-piracy system
You can't play music in you car while trying to seduce the tchutchukinha.... LAWSUIT! Revolução !
Several replies to this article have mentioned the US's laissez faire capitalist system. It isn't. Capitalist, yes; laissez faire, no.
If the US system were laissez faire, then the government would keep its bought-and-paid-for hands off the economic system. We would have a Free Market system, which is at its core a laissez faire system. It means keep your hands off and let the marketplace decide what products and companies survive, and for how long. Capitalism is not synonymous with a free market, nor is a free market needed in a capitalist system. Actually, they are incompatible.
Folks, the Republicans don't want a free market or anything resembling 'laissez faire' approaches to capitalism. They want what the Democrats want, a system that favors their big-money supporters. The only difference is who those supporters are.
Please, when you bandy terms about, at least have some idea of how to use them in context, and how the real world works.
Have a nice war,
Mal the Elder
42 cds or 360 600ml bottles of beer. Thats 216 L of booze.
What the FUCKING HELL!! Perent get's modded 4 on insightful, and Ender Ryans post get's modded Flamebait. Gee, for a bunch of smart geeks, your liberals are sure fucking retarted.
Life is not for the lazy.
It's a crime to circumvent copy protection.
It's not a crime to avoid it, well not yet anyway.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
I bought a CD and it didn't work in my car either.... SUE!! SUE!!! SUUUUUE!!!!!
:-)
I just won't mention to the judge that I don't have a cd player in my car
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
Where do we contribute to his legal fund?
Most people on the planet use a decimal comma.
The USA however, which is an inconsequential little country on the edge of the world, close to falling off, insists on using a decimal point and even does measurements in the antiquated British Imperial system.
Poor sods...
Hahaha! Ive lived to see this on /.
with their fucking mph and gallons and ounces and all that shit. Get with the program and SI units: as a matter of fact, Clinton officially declared SI the units of choice in 1991.
DRM uses encryption. The only way to read DRM content is to have the key, crack the key, or be running an "approved" system. Just using a Mac (or Linux) won't get around the encryption. It may work for "copy protection" (also known as deliberately defective disks), but not DRM.
Only on Slashdot could this have been modded up. Ugh.
First for those which do not know, "que choisir" is a consummer protection association (a non governemental one), a bit like EFF. They argue that this belong to "hidden default" since the consummer aren't warned that those CD do not play everywhere like in car CD, and they were comercialised with the company [b]*KNOWING*[/b] that they would not work everwhere. Second they argue that there is already an anti piracy tax on DVD and CD and thus there is a contradiction between this [protection] and the antipiracy tax. And this contradict the right of consummer to make backup (this is apparently a right in France?). I hope they win, because this would mean one would have to disappear at least in france :).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Writting up comment slashdot box into internet commentwise albeit did, however. To read is difficulty I fear.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
"I don't endorse it, but to be fair most laissez-faire economists still believe that market participants have to label goods and services accurately. "
So why is the US resisting inclusion of information on GM contents in food on the labels of food?
...not since I got bitten by the White Lilies Island album by Natalie Imbruglia (UK). Luckily I managed to extricate myself from that situation and I have not bought any more CD's since then. To compensate I tend to listen to the radio, try out tracks from mp3.com, listen to the CDs I have already or make my own music. I used to buy lots of CDs but now zilch, zero, nil.
"I had a small house of brokerage on Wall Street... many days no business come to my hut... my hut... but Jimmy has fear? A thousand times no. I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey strong bowels were girded with strength like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo... dung. ...Glorious sunset of my heart was fading. Soon the super karate monkey death car would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey."
-Jimmy James, Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Musicdisks are something that used to be very common in the demoscene. They were a self-made player and a collection of songs (mods) bundled on a diskette that would then be traded by mail (or at a demoparty) between the scene people.
Now, even if no-one was selling the expensive CDs (or non-CDs like is mostly the case nowadays) at stores, there would still be music like this example shows...
It was announced today that EMI and Sony sued Brazil for keeping all of the hot topless babes down there and refusing to export them to LA.
Said the EMI head, 'What do Brazil's beaches have over LA beaches? Keep US bitches on US beaches where they belong'.
No word yet from the Brazilian Minister of Travel
This sounds too much like urban legend. How about the name of the artist so that we can: 1. Check the CD out in the store to see if you're full of crap. 2. Back you (and thousand others) up with an email to his fan club (and hopefully to him) when we find out that you're not full of crap. I'd do it even if it was Fred Durst. Telling your story without a name is pretty pointless now isn't it?
I said it before, and I'll say it again - there's nothing wrong with copy-protected CDs - as long as they're clearly labeled as such.
Though I see your point, I have several problems with your conclusion.
Through copyright, record companies have government-granted monopolies. The reason for this is "to promote the progress of science and useful arts." If I cannot play the music, it is not useful. Record companies should have to choose between copyrighting music or releasing it in a copy-protected form. They should not be able to do both.
It's not like truthful labelling of a dishwasher. If the energy usage of a dishwasher you were considering was too high, you could just buy a different one. But music is personal. It stirs the soul. If the song that was playing when you and your wife met is only on a copy-protected CD, what do you do? Pretend you were listening to a different song? If you want the latest Goo Goo Dolls CD and find that it's copy-protected by Warner Brothers, you cannot buy a version that is not from some other label. Truth in advertising is only truly useful when the consumer has a reasonable alternative.
What if I buy a CD and the music falls into the public domain because the copyright expires (It's a theory because, by the time I die, copyright will probably be the life of the creator plus two millenia)? Does the copy protection magically disappear?
Discrimination. The record companies are actively preventing certain consumers from playing the CDs. What they are saying is "we think people with PCs computers steal music, so we will keep this from playing on PCs." It is analogous to deciding that blacks are more likely to shoplift CDs and then engineering the CDs so that they didn't play in a boom box or car stereo (because of the popularity of those devices within the black community).
Fair use. Why should a record company be able to employ a technology specifically to prevent fair use? What right do they have to prevent you, as a consumer, from compressing the music to MP3s, copying it to DAT, or making a copy on your hard drive?
Backup. A CD, like any media, is not impervious to damage. For that reason, people might wish to create backups. I play backups of irreplaceable CDs from my collection. If I cannot back up a CD and it is damaged, how do I replace it? If a sizeable percentage of the price I paid for the CDs paid for a license for me to listen to the music, why should the record company be able to charge me that same license fee again if the CD I originally bought becomes damaged?
I don't believe that this should be a simple truth-in-advertising case. Because of all of the above, it's far more complex than that.
I read the artile in Portuguese originally, and skipped the Babelfish version. The quote you cited made me go and check out what Babelfish had done to the article. I read the "we changes the product" part as "we exchange the product". Basically he (he is a he) is saying that they have an exchange program in place if the CD doesn't work for you, and he thinks this should have prevented the lawsuit. I am not saying that I agree with him, but Babelfish makes him look worse than he is.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Subjet says it all
Life is not for the lazy.
Isn't That Ironic - pirate CDs work, paid-for CDs don't. Some jagged little pill.
.
In English, and other European languages, the comma is used as a list separator:
Much like how I would say something like this:
It's natural to use the list separator to separate lists of numbers as well.
Fine, metric is a superior measuring system. Even if I wanted to personally switch over and start using that right now - I'd still have to work in inches and pounds in order to communicate - because that's what everyone else in the US uses. It's like how Europeans need to lean Spanish, French, German, Italian, etc. in order to get around and communicate with others. It doesn't matter if your language is superior to the others.
Even if the US fully adopted the metric system right now, we'd still need to know how to convert betwen the two - because of the large and important work that has been done with it. Much like how a dead language like Latin is taught to many students, so that they better understand European languages...
- passion
You may try to fake out people with your historical revisionism, but your denial of the on going corporate holocaust is a fraud, as is your obvious lack of any historical knowledge. You may wish that "only" profits are involved, but our basic history as a nation proves otherwise, albeit nowadays it's ignored, and profits at any cost is your mantra. It's one of THE main reasons we had a revolt against england and royal/corporate "rule", ie, it was abusive, and it continues to be abusive to this day.
Here is a simple page explaining some of this fraud
http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/28/usa.html
Here is a partial paste from that page:
The United States of America was born of a revolt not just against British monarchs and the British parliament but against British corporations.
We tend to think of corporations as fairly recent phenomena, the legacy of the Rockefellers and Carnegies. In fact, the corporate presence in prerevolutionary America was almost as conspicuous as it is today. There were far fewer corporations then, but they were enormously powerful: the Massachusetts Bay Company, the Hudson's Bay Company, the British East India Company. Colonials feared these chartered entities. They recognized the way British kings and their cronies used them as robotic arms to control the affairs of the colonies, to pinch staples from remote breadbaskets and bring them home to the motherland.
The colonials resisted. When the British East India Company imposed duties on its incoming tea (telling the locals they could buy the tea or lump it, because the company had a virtual monopoly on tea distribution in the colonies), radical patriots demonstrated. Colonial merchants agreed not to sell East India Company tea. Many East India Company ships were turned back at port. And, on one fateful day in Boston, 342 chests of tea ended up in the salt chuck.
The Boston Tea Party was one of young America's finest hours. It sparked enormous revolutionary excitement. The people were beginning to understand their own strength, and to see their own self-determination not just as possible but inevitable.
The Declaration of Independence, in 1776, freed Americans not only from Britain but also from the tyranny of British corporations, and for a hundred years after the document's signing, Americans remained deeply suspicious of corporate power. They were careful about the way they granted corporate charters, and about the powers granted therein.
Early American charters were created literally by the people, for the people as a legal convenience. Corporations were "artificial, invisible, intangible," mere financial tools. They were chartered by individual states, not the federal government, which meant they could be kept under close local scrutiny. They were automatically dissolved if they engaged in activities that violated their charter. Limits were placed on how big and powerful companies could become. Even railroad magnate J. P. Morgan, the consummate capitalist, understood that corporations must never become so big that they "inhibit freedom to the point where efficiency [is] endangered."
The two hundred or so corporations operating in the US by the year 1800 were each kept on fairly short leashes. They weren't allowed to participate in the political process. They couldn't buy stock in other corporations. And if one of them acted improperly, the consequences were severe. In 1832, President Andrew Jackson vetoed a motion to extend the charter of the corrupt and tyrannical Second Bank of the United States, and was widely applauded for doing so. That same year the state of Pennsylvania revoked the charters of ten banks for operating contrary to the public interest. Even the enormous industry trusts, formed to protect member corporations from external competitors and provide barriers to entry, eventually proved no match for the state. By the mid-1800s, antitrust legislation was widely in place.
In the early history of America, the corporation played an important but s
Folha de São Paulo (babelfish translation here), brazilian biggest newspaper.
Just for the record... Folha is neither the biggest nor the best Brazilian newspaper. Check the "Estado de São Paulo", for example.
The only thing good that comes from the Portuguese colony Brazil is internet porn of women sucking off horses. The Brazite economy is even still suffering from not having slave labour to depend on, and it's doubtful that any Brazite music is worth listening too.
North Europe Long>45Degr N
South Europe Lat 45Degr N
Countries like Norway, France, Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary and Romania, etc belong to North Europe, while Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Croatia, etc belong to Southern Europe
In the news in Agenda do Samba & Choro we publish the internal memo of EMI asking Sony not to make the disks with the CD Audio logo. We also publish a snapshot of the EMI music web page where they call the album a CD. How about this for deceiving the consumers?
I think you need to learn how to use ironic..../ 2038247.shtm l?tid=133&tid=186
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/06/28
a troll was modded down as Flamebait.
Hey retard, we're Americans.
A victory anywhere is good news. A judge in Brazil understood that what the labels are doing is wrong, and wrong is still wrong everywhere. Chances are good that courts all around the world will rule the same. The price fixing lawsuit, and a judge's refusal to shut down Morpheus and Grokster suggests that U.S. courts will agree with the Brazilian judge when the ruling comes down in Dickey V. Universal Music Group et. al". The recording industry are a bunch of racketeers who don't deserve our patronage. Don't Buy CDs.
How ya like dat?
As the texts are in french, here are the interesting points about this story :
...
1. There are not one but MULTIPLE lawsuits on that matter in France. The lawsuit ruled this june was brought by the "Consommation Logement et Cadre de Vie" (CCLV) association against EMI. There are pending lawsuits against sony and BMG. Then there is another french consumers association ("UFC Que Choisir") who sued EMI France, Warner France, Universal Pictures Video, Fnac and Auchan (the two latter are distributors).
2. The court just tested CDs of ONE artist and constated they could not be READ by some devices although the system was stated to prevent COPY.
3. The ruling stated that EMI had one month to put a label on that CD stating : "Warning, this CD cannot be read on every reader or autoradio".
4. EMI appealed.
5. the judgement is on this site.
6. Another article about the situation in Belgium where I read that an asshole from IFPI says "there is only 4 to 8 complains for 10 thousand CD" so it is not a problem. Lawsuit coming
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
>Hey retard, we're Americans.
Interesting.
When did Canada, Mexico, Peru etc. implement a DMCA then?
They haven't, so you can't possibly say all Americans would want to buy from Brazil. You can't even say a majority of Americans would want to buy from Brazil.
Go look at a map. Notice there's a North, Central, and South America. You did take grade 4 geography, right?
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
I wont be acid with you because its Sunday.
But...
We say "I have 120 thousand _and_ 537 apples".
Lists are separated by commas because you _want_ to say you have different things on both sides.
Saying 120,537 apples, although common practice in the USA, is not coherent at all with the arguments you presented. Duh!
Also, saying that you have to use inches because everyone else uses them only assures everybody that you are incompetent, as a nation, to change for better.
This is a much bigger problem than the units one.
It's a computer fan web site, and the Republican answer to internet issues is to have Orin Hatch come out and say that big business's have the right to blow up people's computers. How could any sane programmer go along with that?
Both political parties are completely worthless. The Democrats don't care about the people any more than the Republicans care about the free market and small businesses. Like, if Homeland Security didn't prove that for you, nothing will. Here, you had the "Anti-government Republicans" passing the biggest trampling of individual rights in American history, and the only thing the "we the people Democrats" did was to complain that the new Gestapo wasn't stuffed with enough Union jobs.
Both political parties are completely bipartisan and cooperative - they both make me sick equally as well. This is no longer a conflict of ideas between two political parties, it's a contest to see which set of crooks get to cash a 2.5 trillion dollar federal paycheck and anyone who is a partisan for either side is an idiot.
This is my sig.
If enough people did this then somebody would notice.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
that's exactly what I meant, these multinationals ( a lot of them, just speaking generally) have profits at any cost mentality. I would go so far as to state they start wars for profit, and have for a long time. I am forced to speak as a USian,and I am patriotic for my own nation and union, but the commentary is for all, just I have a US centric interest and a better handle on our history as opposed to some other nations history. I WANT other peoples to be just as proud and "pro" their own nations as I am of mine, and I also want corporations headquartered and chartered inside the US to follow our older historical guidelines of taking the public interest as just as important as this quarters profits. And by public I mean the US public, and any other nation they maybe doing business in. I don't want to be shafted, I don't want other people to be shafted either, I am anti-colonialism and exploitation. I think both are critical for long term wealth production and social stability and peace and prosperity. The alternative is what we have now, and it's not working. Greed and fraud and blackmail and bribery are not respecters of national boundaries, or of their victims rights or dignity. I do not wish to see a world dominated by a dozen or so giant multinationals, who run governments as puppets.
...below, just wanted you to see it, because you had a legit question that was important to answer.
Just about every new CD release of Finnish artists in Finland and also many new international releases are now copy protected.
:-).
The first time they started appearing my girlfriend bought two albums (with different copy protection schemes) and we tried them in the car CD player (the player was factory installed in a 4 month old Peugeot) and neither of them would work. Needless to say she was really pissed off and we returned them immediately to the shop for a refund (and promptly downloaded one album from Kazaa
The net result being that we have not bought any new releases in months. Together we have a collection of several hundred CDs.
The publishers have also bought out a pamphlet "explaining" the copy protection. They had the arrogance to make light of the whole copy protection thing as being in the consumers interest and then at the end it points out that the dics may only play in "standard CD audio players" which doesn't include PCs, DVD players and car CD players and even then there may still be audio distortion!!!
"Effective" DRM so far has always used cryptography. Technically speaking, DRM does not have to use it at all.
Rights refers to the abilities you have with said content. Management means taking them away from you. After all, you have them to begin with - the only thing they can do is take them back away.
Connections to the internet/other network services are only needed to make it more effective. I have a number of pieces of old software which used bad sectors or other mechanisms to prevent copying. The application in question was not encrypted at all. The installer simply checked for the presense of certain markers on the disk, or the program itself did. Some even allowed a certain number of installs.
As for my triangle shaped CDs. Why would they need to be writable? Suppose I had a patent on triangle-shaped CD readers (and CDs), and I only licensed it to devices incapable of making copies. Tracking is not necessary, and I am limiting the number of copies you can make. 0 is a perfectly acceptable number (at least to some copyright holders).
As for limiting _how_ the content can be played back, that is also trivial. If I only license triangle CD player patents to devices which are designed to play in cars, I have limited the places where people can play their audio.
Nowhere in the definition of DRM is encryption a requirement, nor is effectiveness. It's about "Digital", "Rights", and "Management"(read 'taking'), all of which my Triangle-shaped cds encompass.
Contact Me (got tired of viruses emailing me).
Good explanation, but I wrote it and made the mistake:-). English is my second language, I read it fluently, but it's harder to write correctly.
I still don't understand how Sony can make MP3 players to record and play "all your favourite music". And then put copy protection on the CD's they sell. Doesn't this hurt their own business? What's the point of buying an MP3 player if the only legal thing you can play on it is your computer recording of home violin lessons?
I am fairly sure that in Australia you are allowed to make a copy eg tape of a CD or Vinyl recording for personal use. It used to be really important when vinyl deteriorated every time you played it and was completely destroyed the time your little brother got hold of it.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Due to erroneous editing the following sentence from the parent message includes an additional word, shown in brackets:
"If you want the latest Goo Goo Dolls CD and find that it's copy-protected by Warner Brothers, you cannot buy a version that is [not] from some other label."
It makes much more sense without that word "not." Sorry.
Uhhh... yeah... Frace "shut-up" to EU nations supporting the US and Belgium, who thinks they can try anyone, from anywhere. It would be okay if they had the muscle to make it happen.
between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
They must be very afraid, since EMI vice-president defended the company himself in a lawsuit involving less than US$ 350,00.
Did this mean that executives of those music corporations had to defend themselves personally in court without lawyers? In the US, you can't use lawyers in small claims court (usually in matters involving $5,000 or less depending on the state); this statement implies the same. I wonder if I could sue Sony, EMI, etc... in small claims court and drag their executives in.