My mother got one of these here in Florida, from some Republican-aligned group with a bullshit name I couldn't bother committing to memory. Along with a pile of crap for Scott(R) for Governor.
[1]. systemd's logging is more reliable not less. [2]. As far as SPOFs the move to PaaS makes systems far more redundant not less. Each node is unimportant. [3]. As for minimizing attack surface containerization and virtualization are how that's accomplished. Fundamentally that idea is being rejected in favor of dedicated security systems.
(1) There's nothing about binary logging that's more reliable, more secure, or more usable. (2) Not every use case is appropriate for PaaS/cloud. Systemd might be good for that setup, doesn't make it a universally good fit. (3). People who are doing that "rejecting" are people I don't trust making security decisions that will affect my systems.
It doesn't really matter. Ian doesn't have a solution for the problem.
Application programmer B creates a systemd dependency in application C. Debian package maintainer D considers this a bug in the package. B tells D to go pound sand.
If the GR passes, the omitted step is important: B's package doesn't end up in the repo. Therefore, I don't have to worry about it.
Because process management is really important for servers as well.
So are reliable logging, minimizing attack surface, and avoiding SPOFs. The systemd developers'[0] own attitude towards these things is what's convinced me that their stuff can't be trusted. If it was *just* a new init system, that would be great -- I'd still give it some shakedown time, but I'd at least be willing to look at it -- but they decided to kitchen sink instead.
That's why I'm so anxiously waiting for the result of Ian's GR: transitioning to Debian would be less disruptive than to FreeBSD, but I have to be reasonably confident that I'm not going to wake up one day and find out that a critical apache update is going to require me to reconfigure every system from PID1 on up.
[0] Screw the users' attitudes. They're just as bad as the mundanes about making the stupidest shit into politics and some kind of personal slight on their very identities.
Seriously? I know, the whole "slashdot is dying" trope has been going on... well, basically since they changed the name from "Chips & Dips", but fucking A, how does this shit even get posted, Samzenpus? Do you just WANT to watch this putz get completely eviscerated with text-based rapiers?
ewhac, keep this bullshit on tumblr where it belongs, k?
It's complicated. Many old religions have two components: the popular beliefs and the philosophical part of them. This is true of Catholicism (do not confuse with Christianism), Buddhism, etc.
Sure it is. But that doesn't make it any less dickish calling the guy an idiot.
And if you want to enlighten people about their misunderstandings of your religion, it's probably wise to know the difference between a "statement" and a "question," and, at a bare minimum, decency requires not conflating ignorance of internal concepts like "ex cathedra" to stupidity.
Otherwise, you come across as just another thumpin' asshole.
After I got tangled up in reading the mess of a thread that was the "motion" for the GR, my eyeballs started swimming and I figured I should just ask somebody.:D
The, and the article behind it, is about out the way that fixating on the percentages misses the forest for the trees. Then you post, fixating on percentages.
Your righteous indignation might have been more inspiring were it not being bogged down by your semi-literacy and incompetence.
I am not impressed with ownCloud's heavy-handed approach to dictating what distros can provide in their repositories,
Did you read a different message than the one everyone's sharing around the internet, or do you not know the difference between a command and a request: an actual request, at that, not even one delivered at the barrel of a lawyer.
Considering the biggest part of the userbase for Owncloud is privacy- and security-minded sysadmins (running their own rather than trusting the outside providers), I'd say not wanting them to get pwned because Ubuntu's serving out stale versions is a pretty good thing. They're not the package mantainers, and it's Ubuntu who doesn't seem to give a shit here (there's no good excuse for 'we can't take the unmaintained exploitable package out of the unmaintained repository).
I'm not impressed with the attitudes on display in the ownCloud community and I am very unhappy with the way ownCloud's software wiped out all my work files when I upgraded to the "safe" version. If ownCloud was really interested in the sfety of their users and the users' data, this would have been handled much differently.
And thus, the fledgling learns the value of "backups before updates", after landing flat on his beak.
Then just make sure she actually applies herself to whatever career that is.
The last thing anyone in development needs to deal with these days is someone who "converts" 12-hour to 24-hour time using 13 chained if-then statements, and wails about being "picked on for being a woman" when told to redo it in a fashion that's not mind-meltingly incompetent (and, sadly, no, that anecdote's not hyperbole).
Yes! Exactly. We need to FORCE women to take the jobs they don't want. Sorry, Jenny, I know you wanted to grow up to be an MD, but your lottery pull says that you're going to be a plumber. Gotta keep that 50/50 ratio in every industry!
If they are a very small minority, how come so many people want to mention them at every chance they get?
I'm making efforts to remind myself that they *are* a minority (it gets tricky to remember on the net these days), and they are a very, very 'vocal' minority. Vocal, and generally full of shit.
It is interesting that this is happening in a society that every objective power metric is male dominated.
I don't think I've EVER seen old code that's well documented. Not even stuff from my own larval "Document all the things!" phase... I think subversion feeds on comments.
Well, on comments and release engineers' tears, when it comes time to merge...
I honestly can't say. I've only been messing with it in a testing/dicking around capacity, and haven't been swimming in free time for the past month or so. Hopefully someone lucky enough to be doing it full time will post and let us know.
Still, it's a damn sight better than "make buildworld" was (yes, it's been that long)
whether we want a better functioning OS or an OS that adheres to the mindset that I think attracted many of us to Linux in the first place
There's precious little evidence that systemd makes for "a better functioning OS" and plenty that the people behind systemd don't even understand how the OS functions -- and that's on a practical level, not a "OMG UNIX Philosophy is so 1980s" level.
Slashdot Mirror
My mother got one of these here in Florida, from some Republican-aligned group with a bullshit name I couldn't bother committing to memory. Along with a pile of crap for Scott(R) for Governor.
So it's not just the D-team.
[1]. systemd's logging is more reliable not less.
[2]. As far as SPOFs the move to PaaS makes systems far more redundant not less. Each node is unimportant.
[3]. As for minimizing attack surface containerization and virtualization are how that's accomplished. Fundamentally that idea is being rejected in favor of dedicated security systems.
(1) There's nothing about binary logging that's more reliable, more secure, or more usable.
(2) Not every use case is appropriate for PaaS/cloud. Systemd might be good for that setup, doesn't make it a universally good fit.
(3). People who are doing that "rejecting" are people I don't trust making security decisions that will affect my systems.
It doesn't really matter. Ian doesn't have a solution for the problem.
Application programmer B creates a systemd dependency in application C.
Debian package maintainer D considers this a bug in the package.
B tells D to go pound sand.
If the GR passes, the omitted step is important:
B's package doesn't end up in the repo. Therefore, I don't have to worry about it.
Because process management is really important for servers as well.
So are reliable logging, minimizing attack surface, and avoiding SPOFs. The systemd developers'[0] own attitude towards these things is what's convinced me that their stuff can't be trusted. If it was *just* a new init system, that would be great -- I'd still give it some shakedown time, but I'd at least be willing to look at it -- but they decided to kitchen sink instead.
That's why I'm so anxiously waiting for the result of Ian's GR: transitioning to Debian would be less disruptive than to FreeBSD, but I have to be reasonably confident that I'm not going to wake up one day and find out that a critical apache update is going to require me to reconfigure every system from PID1 on up.
[0] Screw the users' attitudes. They're just as bad as the mundanes about making the stupidest shit into politics and some kind of personal slight on their very identities.
Seriously? I know, the whole "slashdot is dying" trope has been going on... well, basically since they changed the name from "Chips & Dips", but fucking A, how does this shit even get posted, Samzenpus? Do you just WANT to watch this putz get completely eviscerated with text-based rapiers?
ewhac, keep this bullshit on tumblr where it belongs, k?
It's complicated. Many old religions have two components: the popular beliefs and the philosophical part of them. This is true of Catholicism (do not confuse with Christianism), Buddhism, etc.
Sure it is. But that doesn't make it any less dickish calling the guy an idiot.
And if you want to enlighten people about their misunderstandings of your religion, it's probably wise to know the difference between a "statement" and a "question," and, at a bare minimum, decency requires not conflating ignorance of internal concepts like "ex cathedra" to stupidity.
Otherwise, you come across as just another thumpin' asshole.
Oh, never mind. That *is* that thread.
Dear gods.
Grassy-ass. I'll keep an eye on that.
After I got tangled up in reading the mess of a thread that was the "motion" for the GR, my eyeballs started swimming and I figured I should just ask somebody. :D
Do you know offhand when we'll know the result of that resolution?
If it's supposed to be an init system, it has no business trying to replace either, no matter how bad they may be.
It is, and this ridiculous claim that it's not so because it's not a singular binary is as telling as it is tedious.
Worse yet, it's a monolith that's ousted EMACS as the poster child for feeping creaturism.
Has the new general resolution about dependencies been settled yet?
The, and the article behind it, is about out the way that fixating on the percentages misses the forest for the trees. Then you post, fixating on percentages.
You mean like the summary you apparently didn't read?
Your righteous indignation might have been more inspiring were it not being bogged down by your semi-literacy and incompetence.
I am not impressed with ownCloud's heavy-handed approach to dictating what distros can provide in their repositories,
Did you read a different message than the one everyone's sharing around the internet, or do you not know the difference between a command and a request: an actual request, at that, not even one delivered at the barrel of a lawyer.
Considering the biggest part of the userbase for Owncloud is privacy- and security-minded sysadmins (running their own rather than trusting the outside providers), I'd say not wanting them to get pwned because Ubuntu's serving out stale versions is a pretty good thing. They're not the package mantainers, and it's Ubuntu who doesn't seem to give a shit here (there's no good excuse for 'we can't take the unmaintained exploitable package out of the unmaintained repository).
I'm not impressed with the attitudes on display in the ownCloud community and I am very unhappy with the way ownCloud's software wiped out all my work files when I upgraded to the "safe" version. If ownCloud was really interested in the sfety of their users and the users' data, this would have been handled much differently.
And thus, the fledgling learns the value of "backups before updates", after landing flat on his beak.
but his points seemed more logic based than your post, for example.
Not sure if you're aware, but the post you're referring to is actually a quote from an Adam Sandler movie.
Just to give you some idea of what you're trying to reason with.
Wow. That IS a bummer. I use it more than "on occasion." I use it a damn lot (it's so much faster than doing even simple graphs with Dia)
Then just make sure she actually applies herself to whatever career that is.
The last thing anyone in development needs to deal with these days is someone who "converts" 12-hour to 24-hour time using 13 chained if-then statements, and wails about being "picked on for being a woman" when told to redo it in a fashion that's not mind-meltingly incompetent (and, sadly, no, that anecdote's not hyperbole).
Yes! Exactly. We need to FORCE women to take the jobs they don't want. Sorry, Jenny, I know you wanted to grow up to be an MD, but your lottery pull says that you're going to be a plumber. Gotta keep that 50/50 ratio in every industry!
If they are a very small minority, how come so many people want to mention them at every chance they get?
I'm making efforts to remind myself that they *are* a minority (it gets tricky to remember on the net these days), and they are a very, very 'vocal' minority. Vocal, and generally full of shit.
It is interesting that this is happening in a society that every objective power metric is male dominated.
See? Lind of like this one.
I don't think I've EVER seen old code that's well documented. Not even stuff from my own larval "Document all the things!" phase... I think subversion feeds on comments.
Well, on comments and release engineers' tears, when it comes time to merge...
I'm crazy curious about WTF is in Poland that anyone in the US would even recognize enough to be worth parodying.
All I can come up with is CDProjekt, but I've never heard of them being "Heavy-handed" like TFS mentions..
Thanks, Dwight.
I honestly can't say. I've only been messing with it in a testing/dicking around capacity, and haven't been swimming in free time for the past month or so. Hopefully someone lucky enough to be doing it full time will post and let us know.
Still, it's a damn sight better than "make buildworld" was (yes, it's been that long)
whether we want a better functioning OS or an OS that adheres to the mindset that I think attracted many of us to Linux in the first place
There's precious little evidence that systemd makes for "a better functioning OS" and plenty that the people behind systemd don't even understand how the OS functions -- and that's on a practical level, not a "OMG UNIX Philosophy is so 1980s" level.