I mean compiler optimizations. High-level language compilers these days are good enough that you can write performance-sensitive programs like games in these languages. It was a response to the OP's reference to using C/C++ to write performance-sensitive parts of games.
My point was this it is arrogant for the OP to say that his profession requires skills while naming certain other professions that "don't." Compared to many of the academic professions (mathematics, physics, even literature) where people who have just gotten their phd are relatively low-level post-docs, many programming jobs (Java-type back-end stuff) are "unskilled professions."
Don't get pissed because your job is low-level enough to get sent overseas, while looking down at others to whom this has already happened and trying to distinguish yourself by saying that yours is a skilled profession and theirs is not.
As for your example, its not a problem with outsourcing, but simply with hiring bad people.
My main gripe is with fucktards like the one that posted on the AMD thread that we shouldn't support AMD because it is outsourcing. How do we know the type of people they hired? If they hired bad people, then they'll lose more than they gain, and they'll have to change their business strategy. This happened with Dell, who had to move their tech support back to the US because customers complained too much. Over time, the situation will balance things out until companies find the right mix of product quality vs cost.
There are a few languages that do one or the other (APL, for example, has built-in vector types), but none that do all of them. My point was just that even with C, you're not really working "at the machine level" but still at a significant level of abstraction above it.
C programs don't force hardware to resemble a PDP-11, but the C machine model doesn't resemble the actual hardware as much as C programmers like to believe.
- C is entirely serially, and the compiler has to infer paralellism from the code. Modern hardware is significantly parallel.
- C is entirely memory-based, while modern hardware does everything it can to avoid referencing memory.
- C has no primitives to describe branching, to aid things like speculative execution.
- C has no vector types, while most modern processors have vector units.
etc,etc,etc.
C has a very nice, simple machine model, but C programmers don't really understand what the computer is doing "under the hood."
You neglect the fact that high-level code *can* be optimized. Major PS2 games (Jak and Daxter, I think) have been written mostly in Common Lisp. You'll probably still need assembly on some critical inner loops of the graphics engine, but then again, C code on the PS2 uses assembly on inner loops to take advantage of the vector units.
Well C is quite nice, but there are lots of languages that will get you 80-90% the performance of C, at a much lower investment in time. I'm a performance freak too, but after seeing what d2c (the Dylan compiler) and sbcl (a CL compiler), I know longer consider performance a downside of using a higher-level language.
There aren't any big houses here except for 100 year old bungalows. Few people have houses with more than 2 or 3 rooms with barely enough space to put a couple of beds. ----------- What parts of the country have you been in? I lived in Bangladesh (poorer than India, certainly) until I was five, and I knew lots of people with big houses that were less than 100 years old. There are several parts of the country composed of people who are quite well-off, especially in the cities (Dhaka) and certain towns.
In short, save the insults for those who deserve them. --------- There are a *lot* of people here who deserve them, and frankly, a lot of us are getting a bit tired of dragging out economic theory to beat them down every few articles. I think the OP was just more frustated than anything else.
Actually, no. Most the the improvements are due to architectural improvements only available in 64-bit mode. They have little to do with the fact that integer registers are now 64-bit, but you don't get them in 32-bit mode anyhow. 64-bit mode on AMD64 should be about 20% faster than 32-bt mode, Mathematica is running in "the slower mode."
Is usually a sign that you are using too low-level a language for the application itself. There is no reason you can't write your whole app in something like Python (or better yet, a compiled high-level language).
I can see why you might want to stay with C/C++ for a major commercial application (not because of speed reasons, but because the maturity of the implementations of alternative high-level languages) but it pains me to see tons of OSS software, especially non-speed-critical GUI apps, still being written in C!
That's true, but this S3 chipset is only moderately faster than the GeForce3-class GPU in the XBox, and its probably a wash when you consider that nobody is going to spend much time optimizing for it compared to the XBox.
The XBox costs $200. So this machine won't really be any faster, and cost 50-100% more money.
Not only that, but by the time it comes out, people will be making noise about the XBox2 and the PS3. The XBox2 will have an ATI R500-based GPU! It'll be easily five times faster than this thing.
If you want a cheap gaming PC, $400 will buy you a much faster Dell system, and $100 will buy you a very good Radeon 9600.
Re:The problem is that the ISS is 'international'
on
ISS May Have A Leak
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· Score: 1
C'mon, a VIA processor? A SIS graphics chip? They are going to release a very underperforming system very late in the game, for very high price. Are they stupid???
I don't know about what people have reported, but the iPods are really solid. There might be flakiness in the electronics, but the hardware puts up with abuse very well.
Huh? The whole point is to allow Linux users to use the music that they legally purchased on the platform of their choice. Its exactly the same as the DeCSS stuff.
I use Linux as my primary desktop. DeCSS allows me to do the same things Windows users do, play DVDs on the platform of my choice. Every time I watch a movie on my monthly flight from Atlanta to Washington DC and back, I owe that to DeCSS.
iTMS is cool. There is no reason that only Windows and MacOS users should get invited to the party.
Slashdot Mirror
I mean compiler optimizations. High-level language compilers these days are good enough that you can write performance-sensitive programs like games in these languages. It was a response to the OP's reference to using C/C++ to write performance-sensitive parts of games.
My point was this it is arrogant for the OP to say that his profession requires skills while naming certain other professions that "don't." Compared to many of the academic professions (mathematics, physics, even literature) where people who have just gotten their phd are relatively low-level post-docs, many programming jobs (Java-type back-end stuff) are "unskilled professions."
Don't get pissed because your job is low-level enough to get sent overseas, while looking down at others to whom this has already happened and trying to distinguish yourself by saying that yours is a skilled profession and theirs is not.
As for your example, its not a problem with outsourcing, but simply with hiring bad people.
My main gripe is with fucktards like the one that posted on the AMD thread that we shouldn't support AMD because it is outsourcing. How do we know the type of people they hired? If they hired bad people, then they'll lose more than they gain, and they'll have to change their business strategy. This happened with Dell, who had to move their tech support back to the US because customers complained too much. Over time, the situation will balance things out until companies find the right mix of product quality vs cost.
There are a few languages that do one or the other (APL, for example, has built-in vector types), but none that do all of them. My point was just that even with C, you're not really working "at the machine level" but still at a significant level of abstraction above it.
Yes. And that is relevent to a discussion about the Athlon64 how?
C programs don't force hardware to resemble a PDP-11, but the C machine model doesn't resemble the actual hardware as much as C programmers like to believe.
- C is entirely serially, and the compiler has to infer paralellism from the code. Modern hardware is significantly parallel.
- C is entirely memory-based, while modern hardware does everything it can to avoid referencing memory.
- C has no primitives to describe branching, to aid things like speculative execution.
- C has no vector types, while most modern processors have vector units.
etc,etc,etc.
C has a very nice, simple machine model, but C programmers don't really understand what the computer is doing "under the hood."
You neglect the fact that high-level code *can* be optimized. Major PS2 games (Jak and Daxter, I think) have been written mostly in Common Lisp. You'll probably still need assembly on some critical inner loops of the graphics engine, but then again, C code on the PS2 uses assembly on inner loops to take advantage of the vector units.
Well C is quite nice, but there are lots of languages that will get you 80-90% the performance of C, at a much lower investment in time. I'm a performance freak too, but after seeing what d2c (the Dylan compiler) and sbcl (a CL compiler), I know longer consider performance a downside of using a higher-level language.
*Cough* steel tarrif *cough*
In theory Republicans should support free trade, but he has to follow the votes, like everyone else.
Please learn about capitalism before spouting off. You seem to have no idea how it works, beyond the basic indoctrination all Americans get.
This is econ 101 folks, c'mon!
I hate to tell you this, but compared to many other jobs, belching out Java code doesn't require any skills either...
There aren't any big houses here except for 100 year old bungalows. Few people have houses with more than 2 or 3 rooms with barely enough space to put a couple of beds.
-----------
What parts of the country have you been in? I lived in Bangladesh (poorer than India, certainly) until I was five, and I knew lots of people with big houses that were less than 100 years old. There are several parts of the country composed of people who are quite well-off, especially in the cities (Dhaka) and certain towns.
In short, save the insults for those who deserve them.
---------
There are a *lot* of people here who deserve them, and frankly, a lot of us are getting a bit tired of dragging out economic theory to beat them down every few articles. I think the OP was just more frustated than anything else.
What do you know about servants and cooks in India and their standard of living?
No, he means 100,000.
Republican Capitalist. :)
------------
Hey, you don't have to be Republican to be Capitalist
Actually, no. Most the the improvements are due to architectural improvements only available in 64-bit mode. They have little to do with the fact that integer registers are now 64-bit, but you don't get them in 32-bit mode anyhow. 64-bit mode on AMD64 should be about 20% faster than 32-bt mode, Mathematica is running in "the slower mode."
Is usually a sign that you are using too low-level a language for the application itself. There is no reason you can't write your whole app in something like Python (or better yet, a compiled high-level language).
I can see why you might want to stay with C/C++ for a major commercial application (not because of speed reasons, but because the maturity of the implementations of alternative high-level languages) but it pains me to see tons of OSS software, especially non-speed-critical GUI apps, still being written in C!
That's true, but this S3 chipset is only moderately faster than the GeForce3-class GPU in the XBox, and its probably a wash when you consider that nobody is going to spend much time optimizing for it compared to the XBox.
The XBox costs $200. So this machine won't really be any faster, and cost 50-100% more money.
Not only that, but by the time it comes out, people will be making noise about the XBox2 and the PS3. The XBox2 will have an ATI R500-based GPU! It'll be easily five times faster than this thing.
If you want a cheap gaming PC, $400 will buy you a much faster Dell system, and $100 will buy you a very good Radeon 9600.
Of course. This sort of stuff never happens when its just NASA...
C'mon, a VIA processor? A SIS graphics chip? They are going to release a very underperforming system very late in the game, for very high price. Are they stupid???
Its got two ARM7 processors running in the range of 80-133MHz. Hardly a jelly bean controller :)
I don't know about what people have reported, but the iPods are really solid. There might be flakiness in the electronics, but the hardware puts up with abuse very well.
Huh? The whole point is to allow Linux users to use the music that they legally purchased on the platform of their choice. Its exactly the same as the DeCSS stuff.
I use Linux as my primary desktop. DeCSS allows me to do the same things Windows users do, play DVDs on the platform of my choice. Every time I watch a movie on my monthly flight from Atlanta to Washington DC and back, I owe that to DeCSS.
iTMS is cool. There is no reason that only Windows and MacOS users should get invited to the party.
AIM sn is Rockman5517 :)
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The screen name is not helping...
Says the guy who has named be-fan!
Bwa ha ha ha ha!
I was connected directly to the internet.