First off, last time I checked, mac had a market share around 5%. Now if you want to quote a source saying over 10%, be my guest.
Secondly, even if it was above 10%, I think that could be considered a fraction of the installed windows user base.
99.9% of Slashdot are not Apple's target audience. I'm looking at you Freegan Penguinista Android fanbois.
The rest of the world, you know, the ones that bathe regularly, don't go "shopping" for their groceries out of trash bins, have managed to move out of their parents houses?
It's for them.
Most people don't want to waste time farting around with their computers. They want to get whatever it is they're trying to get done, done.
Try reading this. It was written by someone who actually develops software for a living, and is apparently confident enough about their appearance to show a picture of their face on their blog.
"Yes. It is. Too bad people won't want to take the time to figure that out... and would rather grab on to the sensationalistic crap. Nothing here, move along.."
Almost all of the crap-grabbers are bitter penguinista hippies who would never buy a piece of hardware that was less than 10 years old and are still upset about having to pay for electricity.
Unfortunately "Apple" sorts before "Linux" on the Sections sidebar and it's a slow news day.
Every time I read the anecdotal assertion that people are buying new Macs and putting Linix distros on them I lace up my lollerskates and make a break for the roflcopter.
Apple just makes something up, and proclaims it's "Better" then the competition. The BIOS works fine, why change it just to be "Cool" and break 20 years of backwards compatability?
Microsoft has consistently sacrificed technological relevance and actual innovation on the altar of backwards compatibility purely for the sake of maintaining a monopoly position.
Feel free to continue getting teabagged by Redmond if you like, but don't get sand in your gigantic asshole just because some of us think there are better ways to spend our money.
Ultimately I think it's good for the industry, if they're willing to pay attention and learn:
1. Leverage your existing franchise(s)
2. Public Beta=Good.
3. The customer is more important than the publisher.
Last but not least, and this is one that game manufacturers miss all the time: release the game simultaneously on Windows and Mac OS: any game that is multi-player benefits from this.
Some manufacturers get this and their sales and customer loyalty reflect it.
The original article is called "Windows Guru calls for Boycott of IE7". IE7. Mentioning pure WIN32 apps would be stupid, which is why I didn't. Thanks for taking care of that.
Again, we're talking about a web-browser: IE 7. Within that context, the only software anyone would risk throwing away are web apps that depend on ActiveX controls in order to work, right? True web apps don't care what browser or OS is being run.
ActiveX is not a platform agnostic solution, and Microsoft should stop pretending that IE is anything other than a front end to a bunch of thin-client applications disguised as a web-browser.
The World Wide Web was designed as a platform agnostic environment. Microsoft has broken that for the sake of tying developers into easy coding tools that only require them to keep hitting the tab button to auto-complete their shitty code until it looks like it might work the way it should. I don't see why the rest of us should have to continue to have to underwrite the rank stupidity of the Microsoft user base. I don't give a shit about your games: I have work to do, and Microsoft's current business model makes it more difficult than it should be for me to do so. The good news is that a lot of people besides me are tired of it, and as a result Microsoft is losing ground in places where people have better things to do than babysit, negotiate, or attempt to work around poorly engineered code in order to get their work done.
The thing that I think is really funny, is the idea that proper CSS compliance would run the risk of breaking ANYTHING. We're talking about appearance layer. Do you know what that means? Go to csszengarden: you might learn something.
I wouldn't call either Firefox or Opera a Windows browser: IE is a Windows browser as it ony runs on Windows in it's current version (6.x). The Macintosh Business Unit stopped reaching into their collective diapers and flinging IE at Mac users at version 5.
While I'm on the topic of context and stupidity, let's be real clear about something: All WIN32 software is Microsoft software. That is the underlying problem with Microsoft and how they do business. If you can't understand that concept then this post is way over your head and you should go back to FARK or something.
If you're going take the time to hit the reply button, please reply with something coherant and meaningful that actually adds to the discussion.
"I guess my 80 year old 5 button mouse (with scroll wheel) weilding grandmother, my 100 year great-grandmother, and my three year old son are freakin geniuses compared to the average Mac user. Maybe I need to find some *average* people to hang out with to see why this is such a big deal."
...or you could just stop shitting up an Apple thread and get back under my desk.
just stop using it and throw away all the money we spent on it?
This is the same bullshit that M$ has used to justify gimping web development for almost 10 years now. Throw it away -- it's CRAP. Continuing to sacrifice standards and innovation on the altar of compatibility for a sub-standard operating system and it's hamstrung retarded cousin the IE browser has become a tired and specious argument.
Microsoft fanbois are sad and depressing. Wake up. Smell the coffee:
Apple to ship Intel boxes, at this rate before Microsoft ships a new operating system.
Paul Thurrott recommends boycotting IE7
Apple ships a multi-button mouse
I guess it's going to take Cthulu rising up from Puget Sound and devouring Redmond before you hairless chimps get the message and stop shitting all over web development.
And therefore eliminating the Java option raises the barrier to entry for Cocoa! We're basically agreeing, so I don't understand what you're objecting to.
What I'm objecting to is a couple of things:
We don't agree because you're factually incorrect. The 'Java option' hasn't been eliminated. They're just not going to be updating it anymore. Those are two very different things.
How is lack of an API a barrier to entry for another programming language? My introduction to C was not in the form of an API from AppleTalk or Perl or any of the 4GL tools I was using, it was in the form of the K and R book and a lot of pain.
I probably would have not bothered responding if not for the 'typical Apple' comment, as if we're all supposed to nod silently in agreement. Do you develop on or for OS X or has it been a little slow over in the Linux channel?
I think you answered your own question in the next paragraph....
I am, for all practical purposes, a Perl fanatic. I love the language. The combination of power and breaking all "normal" language rules is, in a word, fun!
But to really learn the culture etc, was more work than when I learned assembly (68k, regular though) and C in the.. hrm, let us say -- a long time ago.
If you mean a long time ago, Perl wasn't even an option. Also note that I'm talking about this from a Mac users perspective. When I say hobbist, I'm talking about someone who is trying to accomplish a task and gets themselves into doing so through a trial an error approach. AppleScript's syntax and GUI tools and Perl's lack of normal (in your words) syntax rules are much more forgiving to a trial-and-error development process. In this same general category would be VB, and for the truly old school Mac user, HyperCard.
I certainly wouldn't put assembly or C in this category, but this might be a generational thing. I consider myself to be at heart a hobbyist coder. I just decided to start getting paid for my hobby:-D
The disadvantage to Wall's linguistic influences is a quite steep learning curve. It is hard to not use for for even half a year and pick up again.
I'm not a Perl fan so I try not to use it more than once a year if possible:-D
This does significantly raise the barrier of entry for hobbyist coders, though. Seems like a typical Apple decision, certainly.
How?
Objective-C is not the traditional point of entry for a hobbyist coder... AppleScript and Perl generally are. If I was going to recommend a programming language for such a person, it would be Java, on the strength of the API documentation alone, but certainly not Objective-C.
Who reads macslash anyway? Their headline for this article is Apple: You Can't Develop In Java Anymore
, which besides being inflammatory is incorrect.
"Now, of course, it seems as though Apple Doesn't Want You To Use Java Anymore. Does this mean that WO6 will drop Java support, or at least bring back Objective-C?"
Not. Really. It indicates that Apple wants you to use Java for Web services and Objective-C for applications. As previous poster already mentioned they are merely killing support for the Cocoa-Java API so I don't see there being much of an issue: I worked on a number of custom OS X apps at my last gig: this announcement would not have influenced any of our projects then and certainly wouldn't impact anything moving forward.
I'd be interested in hearing from an actual developer who *is* impacted by this.
The gradual realization that I'm being controlled by an AI that is completely insane: I almost feel sorry for people that have only experienced that universe via Halo: while the graphics are *much* prettier, I don't get the same mood as I did with the Marathon series and the storyline isn't even close.
Playing Marathon multiplayer and using the Napalm Projector on my friends was comedy: looking across the room and seeing their faces wash yellow as their screens fill with flamey death.
Deus Ex and FFVII were amazing as well, but they've been mentioned to death so I won't add to it.
The "original" Castle Wolfenstein on the Apple ][ : seeing the monochromatic Hitlers and placing the bomb... and then having to run all the way out again. Nothing worse than hearing the guard bark
World of Warcraft has really floored me: not just the environment but the team play has been (dare I say it) *as good as* PnP: Most of the guys I do PnP with have laptops and we'll all meet at someone's house and play that way: good fun. I'm not obsessed with PHAT LOOTZ though so that's probably why I'm still having fun.
Hi. It's 2005. Glad to see the trolls have switched off of WTFBBQLOLZ 1 button mouse LOLZ!!11! and you are now flogging the games issue. World of Warcraft works fine on my laptop. Also runs better in Windowed mode than on a PeeCee.
Only game not supported that I even *vaguely* care about is HL2.
Note I said vaguely: I'm not really into installing compromised code on my computers.
But then again, that's why I don't have any windows boxen in my house. Savings in crap "commodity" hardware and a video card upgrade every year is nice too. My XBox and PS2 have managed to take care of any game needs the Mac hasn't.
I was at the same job for over 7 years. 6 really good ones and then 1.5 that sucked the life out of me. I did not wait until I had something else lined up: I did my homework and started sending out applications.
I then managed to get myself in a situation where I got laid off: I told my manager I wasn't going to quit but that I would like a "non-adversarial" separation. Worked out well, and I ended up finding a really great job a lot faster than I would have otherwise. There was just too much inertia to get me to actually update the resume until I had committed to leaving.
During the period before that a couple friends and I came up with some resignation haikus: the first two are mine, the others are submissions from other people mixed in with a couple more of mine. Hopefully these will help inspire you all to update your resumes and find a better job:-)
sand in hourglass.
my time here is ending soon.
I shit on your desk.
crane swoops, sharply dives
swallows a struggling fish whole.
I lunch with your wife.
Time to talk about
Separation agreement
Your head from your neck.
no time for shooting
or sad crying or looting
everyone goes boom
Bang. Bang. Bang. Reload.
I respectfully submit.
How about you, sir?
Seven years. New skin.
You and I differ slightly.
You need a skin graft.
A hostile workplace.
Running. Screaming. Crying.
My rifle is calm.
"No, it's not a gun!"
OK, I was just kidding
you all can die now
time to go right now
to my new life without you
sorry 'bout the fire
I start to reload
I tender resignation
and then aim again
I am a bad man
and can be misconstrued
my haikus must stop
Slashdot Mirror
Feeding the WBC from his ample supply of toe-cheese.
First off, last time I checked, mac had a market share around 5%. Now if you want to quote a source saying over 10%, be my guest. Secondly, even if it was above 10%, I think that could be considered a fraction of the installed windows user base.
This took all of about 15 seconds:
http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Apple-has-91-of-market-for-1000-PCs-says-NPD/1248313624
Was the last time you checked? 1997?
The market share argument is getting about as dated as the "one button mouse LOL" argument. Try again.
99.9% of Slashdot are not Apple's target audience. I'm looking at you Freegan Penguinista Android fanbois.
The rest of the world, you know, the ones that bathe regularly, don't go "shopping" for their groceries out of trash bins, have managed to move out of their parents houses?
It's for them. Most people don't want to waste time farting around with their computers. They want to get whatever it is they're trying to get done, done.
Try reading this. It was written by someone who actually develops software for a living, and is apparently confident enough about their appearance to show a picture of their face on their blog.
http://speirs.org/blog/2010/1/29/future-shock.html
It's clear they just got this technology from our newly-arrived alien overlords. Remember, like how we got the pyramids.
You may be right:
http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?tAlmost all of the crap-grabbers are bitter penguinista hippies who would never buy a piece of hardware that was less than 10 years old and are still upset about having to pay for electricity.
Unfortunately "Apple" sorts before "Linux" on the Sections sidebar and it's a slow news day.
Every time I read the anecdotal assertion that people are buying new Macs and putting Linix distros on them I lace up my lollerskates and make a break for the roflcopter.
It's called parenthood.
Microsoft has consistently sacrificed technological relevance and actual innovation on the altar of backwards compatibility purely for the sake of maintaining a monopoly position.
Feel free to continue getting teabagged by Redmond if you like, but don't get sand in your gigantic asshole just because some of us think there are better ways to spend our money.
Nice try, though.
In Southern California, most of the women are inflatable.
At least parts of them are.
Naga please!
1. Leverage your existing franchise(s)
2. Public Beta=Good.
3. The customer is more important than the publisher.
Last but not least, and this is one that game manufacturers miss all the time: release the game simultaneously on Windows and Mac OS: any game that is multi-player benefits from this.
Some manufacturers get this and their sales and customer loyalty reflect it.
The original article is called "Windows Guru calls for Boycott of IE7". IE7. Mentioning pure WIN32 apps would be stupid, which is why I didn't. Thanks for taking care of that.
Again, we're talking about a web-browser: IE 7. Within that context, the only software anyone would risk throwing away are web apps that depend on ActiveX controls in order to work, right? True web apps don't care what browser or OS is being run. ActiveX is not a platform agnostic solution, and Microsoft should stop pretending that IE is anything other than a front end to a bunch of thin-client applications disguised as a web-browser.
The World Wide Web was designed as a platform agnostic environment. Microsoft has broken that for the sake of tying developers into easy coding tools that only require them to keep hitting the tab button to auto-complete their shitty code until it looks like it might work the way it should. I don't see why the rest of us should have to continue to have to underwrite the rank stupidity of the Microsoft user base. I don't give a shit about your games: I have work to do, and Microsoft's current business model makes it more difficult than it should be for me to do so. The good news is that a lot of people besides me are tired of it, and as a result Microsoft is losing ground in places where people have better things to do than babysit, negotiate, or attempt to work around poorly engineered code in order to get their work done.
The thing that I think is really funny, is the idea that proper CSS compliance would run the risk of breaking ANYTHING. We're talking about appearance layer. Do you know what that means? Go to csszengarden: you might learn something.
I wouldn't call either Firefox or Opera a Windows browser: IE is a Windows browser as it ony runs on Windows in it's current version (6.x). The Macintosh Business Unit stopped reaching into their collective diapers and flinging IE at Mac users at version 5.
While I'm on the topic of context and stupidity, let's be real clear about something:
All WIN32 software is Microsoft software.
That is the underlying problem with Microsoft and how they do business. If you can't understand that concept then this post is way over your head and you should go back to FARK or something.
If you're going take the time to hit the reply button, please reply with something coherant and meaningful that actually adds to the discussion.
just stop using it and throw away all the money we spent on it?
This is the same bullshit that M$ has used to justify gimping web development for almost 10 years now. Throw it away -- it's CRAP. Continuing to sacrifice standards and innovation on the altar of compatibility for a sub-standard operating system and it's hamstrung retarded cousin the IE browser has become a tired and specious argument.
Microsoft fanbois are sad and depressing. Wake up. Smell the coffee:
I guess it's going to take Cthulu rising up from Puget Sound and devouring Redmond before you hairless chimps get the message and stop shitting all over web development.
What I'm objecting to is a couple of things:
I probably would have not bothered responding if not for the 'typical Apple' comment, as if we're all supposed to nod silently in agreement. Do you develop on or for OS X or has it been a little slow over in the Linux channel?
I think you answered your own question in the next paragraph....
I am, for all practical purposes, a Perl fanatic. I love the language. The combination of power and breaking all "normal" language rules is, in a word, fun!But to really learn the culture etc, was more work than when I learned assembly (68k, regular though) and C in the .. hrm, let us say -- a long time ago.
If you mean a long time ago, Perl wasn't even an option. Also note that I'm talking about this from a Mac users perspective. When I say hobbist, I'm talking about someone who is trying to accomplish a task and gets themselves into doing so through a trial an error approach. AppleScript's syntax and GUI tools and Perl's lack of normal (in your words) syntax rules are much more forgiving to a trial-and-error development process. In this same general category would be VB, and for the truly old school Mac user, HyperCard.I certainly wouldn't put assembly or C in this category, but this might be a generational thing. I consider myself to be at heart a hobbyist coder. I just decided to start getting paid for my hobby :-D
The disadvantage to Wall's linguistic influences is a quite steep learning curve. It is hard to not use for for even half a year and pick up again.
I'm not a Perl fan so I try not to use it more than once a year if possibleThat's what the announcement looked like to me as well. I just wanted clarification.
Thanks for all the responses.
How?
Objective-C is not the traditional point of entry for a hobbyist coder... AppleScript and Perl generally are. If I was going to recommend a programming language for such a person, it would be Java, on the strength of the API documentation alone, but certainly not Objective-C.
Who reads macslash anyway? Their headline for this article is Apple: You Can't Develop In Java Anymore , which besides being inflammatory is incorrect.
Macslash makes PowerPage seem like ArsTechnica.
Not. Really. It indicates that Apple wants you to use Java for Web services and Objective-C for applications. As previous poster already mentioned they are merely killing support for the Cocoa-Java API so I don't see there being much of an issue: I worked on a number of custom OS X apps at my last gig: this announcement would not have influenced any of our projects then and certainly wouldn't impact anything moving forward.
I'd be interested in hearing from an actual developer who *is* impacted by this.
That's great. Some of us haven't had to contend with readable fonts since the 80s.
Welcome to the 21st century.
The gradual realization that I'm being controlled by an AI that is completely insane: I almost feel sorry for people that have only experienced that universe via Halo: while the graphics are *much* prettier, I don't get the same mood as I did with the Marathon series and the storyline isn't even close.
Playing Marathon multiplayer and using the Napalm Projector on my friends was comedy: looking across the room and seeing their faces wash yellow as their screens fill with flamey death.
Deus Ex and FFVII were amazing as well, but they've been mentioned to death so I won't add to it.
The "original" Castle Wolfenstein on the Apple ][ : seeing the monochromatic Hitlers and placing the bomb... and then having to run all the way out again. Nothing worse than hearing the guard bark
World of Warcraft has really floored me: not just the environment but the team play has been (dare I say it) *as good as* PnP: Most of the guys I do PnP with have laptops and we'll all meet at someone's house and play that way: good fun. I'm not obsessed with PHAT LOOTZ though so that's probably why I'm still having fun.
Hi. It's 2005. Glad to see the trolls have switched off of WTFBBQLOLZ 1 button mouse LOLZ!!11! and you are now flogging the games issue. World of Warcraft works fine on my laptop. Also runs better in Windowed mode than on a PeeCee.
Only game not supported that I even *vaguely* care about is HL2.
Note I said vaguely: I'm not really into installing compromised code on my computers.
But then again, that's why I don't have any windows boxen in my house. Savings in crap "commodity" hardware and a video card upgrade every year is nice too. My XBox and PS2 have managed to take care of any game needs the Mac hasn't.
...killed Steve McQueen.
Someone's going on vacation.
Stop trolling Apple threads.
I then managed to get myself in a situation where I got laid off: I told my manager I wasn't going to quit but that I would like a "non-adversarial" separation. Worked out well, and I ended up finding a really great job a lot faster than I would have otherwise. There was just too much inertia to get me to actually update the resume until I had committed to leaving.
During the period before that a couple friends and I came up with some resignation haikus: the first two are mine, the others are submissions from other people mixed in with a couple more of mine. Hopefully these will help inspire you all to update your resumes and find a better job :-)
sand in hourglass.
my time here is ending soon.
I shit on your desk.
crane swoops, sharply dives
swallows a struggling fish whole.
I lunch with your wife.
Time to talk about
Separation agreement
Your head from your neck.
no time for shooting
or sad crying or looting
everyone goes boom
Bang. Bang. Bang. Reload.
I respectfully submit.
How about you, sir?
Seven years. New skin.
You and I differ slightly.
You need a skin graft.
A hostile workplace.
Running. Screaming. Crying.
My rifle is calm.
"No, it's not a gun!"
OK, I was just kidding
you all can die now
time to go right now
to my new life without you
sorry 'bout the fire
I start to reload
I tender resignation
and then aim again
I am a bad man
and can be misconstrued
my haikus must stop