Apple Releases Multi-Button "Mighty Mouse"

TheRaven64 writes "Hot on the heels of the announcement of x86 Macs, Apple announced a multi-button mouse, known as the Mighty Mouse. It appears that the entire surface is touch-sensitive, allowing the mouse to be programmed as a single-button, multi-button or scrolling device."

Comments

Finally

[RandWalker]

A zero button mouse from Apple! Truly less is more!

Re:Finally

[widget54]

Crumbs won't clog my scroll wheel!

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Buffering Apple-astroturfs ... 5%
Buffering Apple-astroturfs ... 25%
Buffering Apple-astroturfs ... 47%
Buffering Apple-astroturfs ... 64%
Buffering Apple-astroturfs ... 81%
Ok.

Output of 24 Apple-astroturfs below.

Thank you for your interest in Apple-products.
-- taco

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully you need an Apple DRM-laden OS to use it. That way we can block out all non Macintosh users.

Re:Finally

[DigitumDei]

From the site: "Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today's multibutton world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do? Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button."

WTF?? How does making two buttons look like one, make this more intuitive? Elegant, maybe; intuitive, no fucking way.

Re:Finally

[archen]

A friend of mine used to say you could tell the intelligence of a computer's users by how many mouse buttons they had.

1 button for least intelligent apple users
2 for mediochre windows users
3 for intelligent unix users.

I'm wondering what this would mean using this scheme now. I guess Apple users have trancended the intelligence heirarchy?

But actually his theory is sort of bogus anyway. I mean Apple now uses Unix, and can use multi-button mice as well. Most windows users SHOULD only have one mouse button, and many others have no clue what the right button actually does or how to use it. Unix users have to screw with xorg.conf to set the mouse protocol to get their scroll-wheels to work... does that strike you as being more intelligent? ;)

Re:Finally

[kgruscho]

look at the right hand side, it's Pc compatible

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

mediochre

What color is that? A shade of octarine?

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF?? OMG!!
W00T
w000t !!!

Re:Finally

[MrMickS]

Apple has been making zero-button mice since they retired the 'hockey puck' mouse. What I want to know is can you assign Automator workflows to the button presses so that it squeaks and performs and action when you squeeze it.

Re:Finally

[Otter]

A friend of mine used to say you could tell the intelligence of a computer's users by how many mouse buttons they had.

I, for one, welcome our new supergenius 11 button mouse-using overlord...

Incidentally, Apple has supported multi-button mice since as long as I can remember, and the interface has pretty much required a second button for efficient use since OS 8. It has nothing to do with Unix.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe Apple is using those words "intuitive, elegant design" in reference to their one button mice and their policy of designing programs to work well with only one button.

Re:Finally

[kidtux1]

My main concern with the mouse is that it seems like it provides no tactile feedback when you click. This may be very annoying. I'd want to try one of them out before deciding if I wanted to purchase it. -- http://www.kunae.blogspot.com/

Re:Finally

[Reaperducer]

How does making two buttons look like one, make this more intuitive?

It's not two buttons. It's still one button, but there are sensors similar to the ones used in the iPod scroll wheel that sense which finger you're using.

intuitive, no fucking way.

Calm down, sport. It's just a mouse. It will be O.K. No one's going to take your Logitech away. But you might consider trading it in for some anger management classes.

Re:Finally

[Jimbroskee]

Is it also cordless if you just unplug it?

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

The mouse has a speaker that provides audible feedback, I'm told.

Re:Finally

[glesga_kiss]

How does making two buttons look like one, make this more intuitive?

Because the Apple fan-boys have been arguing that one button is best for many years, so they have to continue to pretend that one button is somehow better. Even though they have basically caved in on this issue and realised that extra UI hardware might actually make the UI better to use.

Let the Apple zealot modding-down commence...

Re:Finally

[tehlinux]

WTF?? How does making two buttons look like one, make this more intuitive? Elegant, maybe; intuitive, no fucking way.

When will I get mod points? That is as about as insightful as you can get on this topic

Re:Finally

[consequentemente]

I couldn't count how many Windows users I've had this conversation with:

"Ok, right-click on that."
"Do what?"
"Right-click... you know click with the OTHER button - the one on the RIGHT"
"Huh??"

Of course... even that's a more enjoyable experience than habitually right-clicking with a Mac mouse, only to realize that my efforts are in vain and that I have to hunt down that pesky pretzel key and tie my hand in some sort of apple-command-shift knot just for one mouse click :-P

Re:Finally

[phcrack]

the interface has pretty much required a second button for efficient use since OS 8.

I don't understand why no one knows how to use an apple. Take your left hand out of your pants and leave it on the keyboard in a natural position. Command, ctrl, and option are sitting right there under your thumb. I'm always remapping the left alt to ctrl now so I only have to move my thumb off the spacebar instead of having to move my entire hand use common shortcuts.

Re:Finally

[the web]

Ahem!!!

Who has time for intuitive, elegant design
REFERRING TO THE ONE BUTTON MOUSE...
 
  when there is so much clicking to do?
REFERRING TO THE TWO BUTTON MOUSE.
 
In other words, Apple is saying, regardless of how intuitive it is to have a single button mouse, they are making way for a much needed two button mouse.
 
Do you get it now!?

Re:Finally

[DigitumDei]

Okay.

So instead of two buttons which you use two fingers to use, we have one sensor that you use two fingers to use, and it translates it into either a left click or a right click. They then put a speaker in the thing so that it can make a click sound.

I honestly could care less whether a mouse uses two switches or one intelligent sensor, if you are using two fingers to get two seperate results with the mouse, it has two buttons.

And don't worry, I'm not angry, marketing speak just makes me say WTF a lot. ;)

Re:Finally

[revery]

Sun is ticked about their new slogan.

The mouse is the button.

Re:Finally

[jellomizer]

I figured that this was in the works. Apple working hard to beat up the Trolls out there. Macs are to expensive so they came up with the Mac-Mini, The processor is still not as fast as Intel so they switched to Intel. And the long only one button mouse troll is finally put to rest. For Apple I think this was the most difficult. They needed to find a way for a mouse to look just as clean or cleaner as their older mice offer the features they wanted, but still make it simple for the people starting out, and have it priced reasionable.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

No, only windows compatible.

Re:Finally

[DigitumDei]

And you conviniently didn't read the last sentence of the quote? You can say what you want, that little bit of marketing speak was definitely aimed at sounding like they've added right click functionality without making it less intuitive.

Re:Finally

[itomato]

The button only existed because you need something to actuate.

Your finger is what does the business.

The illusion of needing a whole "button" to do a task is now outmoded. You can thank the iPod for getting us here.

"It's all about where you put your finger."

Re:Finally

[silicon not in the v]

I don't understand why no one knows how to use an apple. Take your left hand out of your pants and leave it on the keyboard in a natural position. Command, ctrl, and option are sitting right there under your thumb.

Well, you know, sometimes it's nice to still be able to use your computer with one hand while drinking your coffee, soda, or whatever with the other hand.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

If you thought that was fun, prepare yourself for a veritable joygasm when telling Mac users to righ-click on a mouse that visibly only has one button.

"Ok, right-click on that."
"Do what?"
"Right-click... you know click with the OTHER button - the one on the RIGHT"
"But there's only 1 button and a nipply-thing on this mouse"
"No there's a second button but it's hidden. It's the right button."
"A hidden button? Would anyone make a mouse and then HIDE one of the buttons?"
"Okay, you know what? Never mind. Just squeeze-click on that, instead."
". . . ."

Re:Finally

[DigitumDei]

My introduction to Macs was when I had to work on a G3 with its little breast implant of a mouse. Perhaps it tainted me, I know mac topics are where I burn up all the karma I get from other topics. :)

Re:Finally

[Paradox]

Because the Apple fan-boys have been arguing that one button is best for many years, so they have to continue to pretend that one button is somehow better. Even though they have basically caved in on this issue and realised that extra UI hardware might actually make the UI better to use.

Dude. Very few people are saying, "One Button Is Better." The people who are saying the one button mouse has merits are considering grandma and grandpa, who had to practice to learn to double click. No really, they actually did. For them, a single mouse button makes far more sense.

Apple users who care though, can now simply change their perspective, click a checkbox, and progressively disclose new features. Heck, they can do it on their user profile, so that grandma and grandpa can share the same computer with me and still be comfortable.

I think it's a rather elegant migration strategy. I didn't think that a multi-button mouse could have also looked just like a single button mouse.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you're wearing gloves.

Re:Finally

[the web]

hmm... on second read, I'm still right.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

"A zero button mouse from Apple! Truly less is more!"

Which goes to show you that the people at Apple does read slashdot. ;)

Re:Finally

[jimktrains]

So that's what 3 button mouses were used for.... I always thought it was the other way around. Every sysadmin (including myself) I've ever talked to has never used a mouse on unix (who needs it. nothing beats a keyboard and cmd line; nothing) So maybe the heiarchy (from smartest to other) should be: 0 buttons for the unix user 1 button for the mac (does this mighty mouse even have a button or is it kindo the mouseis the buttons?) 3 buttons for the PC

Re:Finally

[vmfedor]

I tend to agree. Apple do good work but their mice are fucking irritating. Sure this thing can be configurable for "two" buttons but it still doesn't solve the problem of having the whole mouse function as a button, instead of having the buttons isolated into, well, buttons. I'm sick of accidently clicking the mouse when I'm just trying to move it.

Re:Finally

[Spacepup]

So if I use my middle finger will Apple know that I'm flipping them off?

Re:Finally

[Afrosheen]

Every sysadmin (including myself) I've ever talked to has never used a mouse on unix (who needs it. nothing beats a keyboard and cmd line; nothing)

  Maybe every single one of you need to get familiar with gpm. It's a nice console mouse daemon that lets you put your mouse to use in the console or cli. Works well with Ncurses-based apps, and lets you get all of that nasty copying and pasting done in seconds by using the mouse to highlight text blocks rather than using cryptic emacs/vi commands.

  Personally, I've never met an admin that didn't use gpm and a mouse on Unix.

Re:Finally

[Jeremi]

"It's all about where you put your finger."

Please tell me that's not Apple's new marketing tagline!

Re:Finally

[yuriismaster]

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/software.html

"you can program both of these [side-squeeze] buttons -- along with Mighty Mouse's right- and left-click functions -- to launch Dashboard, Exposé, Spotlight, Application Switcher or any application you choose" (emphasis mine)

Just create a workflow and save it as an app. Assign it in System Prefs and you got a nice shortcut. Just don't make the button do anything too damaging ;)

Re:Finally

[Moofie]

Why would you ever do that? Contextual menus on the Mac are optional. You don't have to use them to get to any function. They're a convenience for people who are more comfortable with PCs than Aunt Tillie.

Re:Finally

[Amiga Trombone]

I honestly could care less whether a mouse uses two switches or one intelligent sensor, if you are using two fingers to get two seperate results with the mouse, it has two buttons.

I don't either. What I am curious about is how this is eventually going to be implemented on laptops.

No, I don't want to be dragging around an external mouse for the damn thing.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that the Mac has practically no hardware or software support compared to its competitor.

Re:Finally

[Tackhead]

> Crumbs won't clog my scroll wheel!

Hey, these aren't crumbs! Crumbs aren't curl-eeeeew!

Re:Finally

[kyojin the clown]

i cant even begin to imagine how painful this mouse must be to use. do i have to have my fingers suspended all the time, for fear of accidental clicking? or do i have to lift them up everytime i want to click on something?

either its super sensitive, in which case it will be basiclly unusable, or its very low sensitivity, in which case it will just be annoying.

however, as someone has said, Apple's UI design tends toward excellent, so maybe it works perfectly. i'd love to give it a try, but currently i have my doubts.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could pry yourself away from the twinkies for 10 minutes, fatass.

Re:Finally

[jyoull]

it has some sorta audio output for clicki-ness and other mousey feedback. Not the same as a mechanical click on the fingers, but sounds plausible. I'm trained on a tappable trackpad and a small travel-mouse with a very short travel on the buttons, so i don't think i would miss the clicking.

Quoth Apple:
Mighty Mouse even sounds as good as it feels. The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Cow herd]

Worst argument ever... by your logic, keyboards are optional too, since you can just copy & paste individual letters from other documents into whatever you're writing. If you're going to include "convenience" features like contextual menus, it helps to make them convenient to use, too, and most people find a single mouse click more convenient than mouse-click + emacsian keyboard chord.

Re:Finally

[mc900ftjesus]

My mouse has 8 buttons. I rule the world! PS: I run WinMacLiUNIX X 11.0 2007 Colt45 Mesa(that's why I need 8)

Re:Finally

[Moofie]

Huh?

My argument was "When you're explaining something to somebody, explain the least complex method." Usually, the "least complex method" does not involve the right mouse button.

Who was talking about Emacsian keyboard chords? I was talking about the menus at the top of the screen...you know, the ones where there are a bunch of words that correspond to program functions...

Re:Finally

[hotdiggitydawg]

Calm down, sport. It's just a mouse.

Michael Winner, is that really you?

(Joke for the UK readers... for those that need background)

Re:Finally

[Jobe_br]

Well, if they can sense two fingers on the touchpad to activate scrolling, then they may be able sense if your right or left finger is tapping the touchpad, hence right or left click.

Re:Finally

[EraserMouseMan]

Thank goodness somebody's got it right! Yep, this mouse has the gee-wiz factor. But it's not user-friendly. I really don't think a two-year old could figure out all of these features hidden behind the facade of a solid plastic shell. Honestly you wouldn't even realize it acts like a single button mouse until somebody tells you you have to push down on the front end.

It's pretty but it's not intuitive. Remember: the definition of intuitive is "immediately obvious even to the most casual observer". Sorry Mac-zealots! The Mighty Mouse is not user friendly.

Re:Finally

[dynamo]

Where do they mention a speaker?

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but that's because you're always right.

Asshole.

Re:Finally

[Raffaello]

Only tards who can't touch type could ever hope to use a computer with one hand. People with brains have always known that one can only use a computer effectively with two hands.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not the only one who hated those little circular mice that came with the G3-era iMacs... I dumped mine about three days after my iMac was delivered. But you seem to be unable to separate one poor design element (that was rather quickly eliminated, IIRC) from an otherwise quite powerful and useful line of computers, software, and tools. The mouse is not the entire computer... and for all those PC-using Mac-bashers' complaints about lack of choice, what the heck was preventing them from buying another damn mouse?

Re:Finally

[revscat]

Because the Apple fan-boys have been arguing that one button is best for many years, so they have to continue to pretend that one button is somehow better.

When? Where? From what I can tell the "zealot" you describe is a rather popular strawman. I don't think I have ever seen a discussion where someone claims the one-button mouse superior.

Re:Finally

[pomo monster]

Considering that the default is still "left button" for the entire surface, it's a smart example of progressive disclosure. It caters to power users, while keeping things simple for "beginners" (i.e. people who have better things to do with their time than learn all the intricacies of computer UIs and contextual menus).

Re:Finally

[generic-man]

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/design.html

The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects.

Re:Finally

[generic-man]

In iTunes, opt to play a song next in the Party Shuffle without using a contextual menu.

In iCal, try mailing an event to people without using a context menu.

In Safari, try performing any action on a link other than "follow this link" with one mouse button and no context menus. Try the same thing with images.

These are just three of the many features with which Apple has conveniently ignored its own mantra of "Nothing should be accessible only in a context menu."

Re:Finally

[The Lynxpro]

"I figured that this was in the works. Apple working hard to beat up the Trolls out there. Macs are to expensive so they came up with the Mac-Mini, The processor is still not as fast as Intel so they switched to Intel. And the long only one button mouse troll is finally put to rest."

They are answering the trolls in increments. There are still plenty of things to troll about in Apple/Macintoshland and post here on Slashdot about, such as:

*No color screens in the iPod Minis yet (X-Mas time).

*No gapless audio playback on the iPod yet.

*No OGG/FLAC (and for sadists, WMA) support on the iPods.

*No video iPod.

*No iPod/iTunes phone yet (blame all).

*No new Newton or Apple branded PalmOS device or adding NewtonOS, OS X mini, or PalmOS to iPods.

*No TabletMac yet.

*No official iTunes/Quicktime release for Linux.

*No AAC+Fairplay licensing to other companies (as of yet) to make non Apple hardware compatible with the iTunes Music Store... (I'm talking Sony PSP, PalmOS devices, and TiVo).

*Still no physical eject button on the CD/DVD drives on the Macs.

*No headless Mac in the price range between the Mac Mini and the PowerMac.

*No off-the-shelf videocard support in PowerMacs (meaning we cannot buy a WindowsPC based videocard to escape the Mac videocard surcharge).

*No digital audio out on the Macs or decent digital audio chipset (thanks to the never-ending litigation between Apple Computer and Apple Corps). Feel free to correct me on this if I'm incorrect.

*Going with Intel over AMD on the x86 switch... :) (although I understand the reason).

There's still probably more to troll about than that, but my fingers are tired from typing... :)

Re:Finally

[javaxman]

Dude. Very few people are saying, "One Button Is Better." The people who are saying the one button mouse has merits are considering grandma and grandpa, who had to practice to learn to double click. No really, they actually did. For them, a single mouse button makes far more sense.

I'm also considering my two-year-old ( now three ). We tried a three-button mouse for a while, and it just pissed him off.

This thing, with it's per-user configurability, is just what the doctor ordered. Frankly, I have to think the looks-like-one-button, configure-how-you-want functionality is brilliant, especially when you have different types of users using the same machine.

Re:Finally

[Harlequin]

Time is round. Space is curved. Why should your mouse be linear?

Ummm... because my desktop is neither round nor curved?

Re:Finally

[Moofie]

You make three excellent points. I think contextual menus are an ugly hack, almost as bad as tabbed dialog boxes. I think that Apple was caving on their UI guidelines when they included them, and I think that creeping featuritis has led them to include functions that are only accessible in the contextual menus.

However, I maintain that the contextual menus are not necessary for day-to-day operation of the computer. Mostly, I maintain that because I never use those contextual menus in my day-to-day operation of my computer.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

You actually think that Apple marketing is calling their new mouse unintuitive and inelegant on the page advertizing for it? Of course they're referencing the one button mouse as being intuitive and elegant, but they're saying the new "two button" mouse is just as good in that department. I think you get fired from marketing when your copy reads "well, our old one was better in a lot of ways, but we're bowing down to the trolls who were whining about needing two buttons".

Re:Finally

[Yusaku Godai]

But sometimes one has little choice buy to use a computer with one hand. People with sex drives have always known that one can only use a computer for porn effectively with one hand.

Re:Finally

[sammy baby]

I have, specifically in the context of training inexperienced users. And I've seen it on Slashdot, to boot.

Sorry I can't provide a URL - this was some time ago.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't know what you're talking about. Brush up on your reading comprehension, punk!

Re:Finally

[anlprb]

"Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do?" -- Just in case you missed the concept in the English language called sarcasm, they are talking about the single button mouse being intuitive and elegant. Juxtaposing that to the "copious" amount of clicking that you would do with twice the amount of buttons. I am personally surprised that they let a comment like that get into a public forum. They are basically saying, "Fine, you guys are just to ignorant to get it, it isn't worth fighting it anymore, here is your damned two button mouse, get over it, but we still think we were right."

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I think Apple is trying to stick to the one button mouse. Just look at this thing - a touch sensitive surface with a nipple thingy in it. How am I supposed to know where the different "buttons" are? What about all of this business of activating different modes, which looks to be really user unfriendly and unintuitive? How is this thing going to differentiate between me grabbing the mouse to move it and me clicking on something? And the thing has a speaker in it. A speaker! How dumb can this thing possibly get? Apple wants this mouse to be a disaster, thus "proving" them right that their one button mice are superior.

Re:Finally

[Ahnteis]

I believe the "Who has time for intuitive, elegant design" is referring to the one-button standard rather then the new mouse.

It's a little jab at us folks who like 2 button interfaces.

Re:Finally

[javaxman]

WTF?? How does making two buttons look like one, make this more intuitive? Elegant, maybe; intuitive, no fucking way.

Since you're so quick and willing to find fault with this design without any insightful analysis of it, I'm sure you'll ignore me as being a 'fan boy' when I make these two points, but :

a) it's as intuitive as just about any left/right-button mouse in that you click on the left side for the left button and the right side for the right button. I'm not sure what's not intuitive about that. It'd be pretty hard not to know which side of the little scroll-ball you're clicking on, wouldn't it ? You'd be using different fingers, isn't that intuitive enough?

b) There is nothing inherently intuitive about left/right click behavior in general. Two and three year old children can figure out things that are truly intuitive; they're pretty well confused by a context-sensitive menu attached to a button on the right- as are older, reading-savy, but inexperienced users. Multi-button mice might be what someone is used to, and they might be extremely useful after user training, but it's just not right to imply that there's anything intuitive about them, as you have done.

That said, I of course use multi-button mice wherever I can- they provide additional useful functionality, when software supports them, especially scrollwheel mice.

However, I tried putting a multi-button mouse on my home computer once, and it pissed off my three-year-old, and my wife didn't use the extra buttons, so I gave up on it. A mouse like this, with it's multi-user-settings, would allow me to have my left/right/middle click ( and then some ) and yet allow my three-year-old to still make use of the machine without useless ( to him ) contextual menus popping up just because he hit the wrong button. Keep your Logitec mouse, it's a good one, but my pre-schooler and I will likely pick up one of these beauties.

Re:Finally

[dragonman97]

Same here - I've seen it countless times - in the same manner as parent poster suggests.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

1) mices are not intuitive in themselves: we actually had to learn to use them, and for somebody who still has to learn that, this one button mouse is certainly easier than any two mouse buttons out there

2) for everybody else it's very obvious that you press it near the top in order to click (sorry: nobody who knows what a mouse is would ever really be stuck until "somebody tells you" where to click!);

3) "intuitive" is slightly different than "user friendly": you should have said "the thing is not *intuitive*" rather than "*user friendly*"; yes intuitiveness can improve user friendliness, but the concepts are actually distinct: for something as frequent as clicking I'd say that *comfort* would be much more user friendly to me than simple *intuitiveness*, so until we can actually try one of those mice we cannot know how user friendly they actually are.

I think the thing is a pretty good compromise of simplicity and flexibility. I also think it's pretty much intuitive, actually. I definitely think it's flexible: I could have my little one use it as a single button mouse and still use the same mouse for both of us (which is great).

In fact a two-year old wouldn't *need* to "figure out all of these hiddend features" (that's why they're hidden), and would use it in a very intuitive fashion (point and click). I really think this is typical, good Apple design.

I just happen to think it's quite a bit too expensive... it should appeal to more people than just the high-end mouse purchasers. I hope it will replace the standard Apple mouse in the near future.

Re:Finally

[oscast]

The mouse still clicks (assuming its still like Apple's current mice and the whole mouse behaves as a button. The difference would be that the click would apply to the right if your figure is there when you push down on the mous and vise versa. Simply resting your hands on the buttons wouldn't cause it to click.

Re:Finally

[BrianRaker]

Uhm... That little stick thing is no more than a TrackPoint, made common by Lenovo (ex-IBM) in their ThinkPad line of laptops. That tells me that this is already in the laptop market :P

Re:Finally

[pantherace]

Then they've obviously not actually considered 'grandma or grandpa' because attempting to teach older people (in fact, including my grandmother) indicates, that double-clicking is one of the hardest things for many of them (often having arthritis) to get a handle on.

Better than have one button you have to click multiple times, (difficult for some even with very relaxed timing, because often they move the mouse some, which can throw off the click) is to have a dedicated button which acts like a double click, or better yet, dispense with double clicking entirely, as it requires a repeated movement, which will often cause those with arthritis to have pain.

Re:Finally

[javaxman]

I don't think I have ever seen a discussion where someone claims the one-button mouse superior.

You're right in a sense; nobody would claim a single-button mouse is best for experienced power-users. I have the personal experience, however, of trying to get both my mother-in-law and three-year-old son to switch from single-button mice to multi-button mice. All I did in the process was piss them off. After a little more than a week, I realized they either wouldn't use the right button, or ( in the case of my son ), couldn't actually use it's extra features, so I put the single-button mice back on.

Of course, I use a multi-button mouse where I can. If I get this one, I'll be able to use it at home on the computer my son uses ( pretty clever, I guess I'm the real target market for this thing ).

But my point remains- for some users, the one-button mouse actually is better. So there's your one discussion, with the "for some users" caveat, of course.

I'm afraid that, despite being an OS X programmer and a bit of an expert on things Apple, I'm not sure I fit the 'zealot' label... nobody can defend the 'puck' mouse, and I didn't touch an Apple between 1995 and 2001. Maybe there's a real zealot out there who can argue that the one-button mouse is better for everyone. That's not me... but I do have the concrete experience of trying to switch my mother-in-law and son to multi-button, and that forever changed my criticism of the one-button mouse.

Re:Finally

[coolgeek]

I'm pretty sure you still have to push the top shell down to click the button inside. Have a look here. The capacitive sensors in the top simply indicate which finger(s) you used to click the button.

Think about it, if there is no button, and no tactile feedback as you (incorrectly) suggest, the simple act of resting your fingers on the mouse would generate clicks.

Re:Finally

[lgw]

What happen when you right-click on a Mac? Do you get a context menu? That would be helpful. I never was able to figure out how to use a Mac. :\ I guess it's "the computer for the rest of you."

Re:Finally

[glesga_kiss]

Where? From what I can tell the "zealot" you describe is a rather popular strawman. I don't think I have ever seen a discussion where someone claims the one-button mouse superior.

I've had this argument myself at least twice on slashdot, and my karma took a big hit from stepping away from the Apple Party Line. Strange point of view to have nowadays, given the 1984 commercial they did... ;-)

The argument against was that menus can do everything a right-click can do. My argument was "yeah, but the context menu is smaller and each of the options is directly relevant". Plus, right-click drag & drop is essential on Windows in order to get the correct operation i.e. copy or move. I reckon a lot of people do not understand the power of the right-click!

Re:Finally

[lgw]

I don't use a single Windows app where a function is only available from the contextual menu. They're all there somewhere in the menu tree, and when I'm doing something repetitive, I figure out where so I can get there with only the keyboard. The context menu is *handy*, and much more intuitive then trying to guess which toolbar icon is supposed to stand for what.

Re:Finally

[javaxman]

I really don't think a two-year old could figure out all of these features hidden behind the facade of a solid plastic shell. Honestly you wouldn't even realize it acts like a single button mouse until somebody tells you you have to push down on the front end.

What? Isn't the point of this mouse that you can configure it to act like a single-button mouse ? Which "button" you've clicked is determined by "capacitive sensors" ( check under "The button that wasn't" ), which sounds to me like the whole shell still 'clicks', and the capacitive sensor part is used to select which button you mean, so... it one-button-mode, it should still work like the current one-button mouse, right?

I think this is the entire idea; the two-year-old doesn't figure out any hidden feature. I set it up as a one-button-mouse for them, and aside from the scroll-ball, they don't know the difference. When I switch to my own account, however, oooh the multi-button-y goodness is revealed. That's gee-wiz factor, but it sounds like user-friendly, useful gee-wiz factor, if it works like it sounds like it works. If you're right, on the other hand, and no click is recorded in single-button mode unless the front is pressed, that sounds bad. After reading the specs, though, I don't think that's how it works- the 'capacitive sensors' are used to determine which button was pressed, not that a button was pressed.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

In the fucking article, you dozy cunt.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you get a context menu. They're not overdone like on Windows though (for example, if there's no useful action, you'll get no context menu at all, rather than a "what's this" that points to an empty documentation string, or some such bullshit). Also, unlike some Windows software, there's usually an alternative way to get the job done just in case you can't right-click.

I don't know when MacOS started supporting the context menu, but I'm pretty sure it was before OS X.

Re:Finally

[timeOday]

This thing, with it's per-user configurability, is just what the doctor ordered. Frankly, I have to think the looks-like-one-button, configure-how-you-want functionality is brilliant, especially when you have different types of users using the same machine.

Ridiculous. If there were any need for such a thing, the OS could easily be configured to interpret any click of any button as a left click.

This thing is just the horrible membrane keyboard idea applied to a mouse.

But what do I know? I don't like the idea of an mp3 player with no display, either.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm... That little stick thing is no more than a TrackPoint, made common by Lenovo (ex-IBM) in their ThinkPad line of laptops. That tells me that this is already in the laptop market :P

No, no it's not. The Mighty Mouse "stick" is in fact a ball, that rolls in any direction.

Re:Finally

[lgw]

I've never seen a Windows app in which a function was *only* available from the context menu. I'm sure this brain damage exists somewhere, but the UI design standards are clear about this - the context menu i supposed to be a subset of the menu tree.

Re:Finally

[javaxman]

Maybe your three year old should be interacting with other kids instead of learning a mouse. Time for that later, when they aren't crapping themselves.

Dude, if your three-year-old is still crapping themselves, you've got some serious catching up to do. That shit needs to be dealt with earlier, like around two to two and a half, when they're not yet at the stage of trying to determine boundaries and exerting their own control over the world. Putting it off until later can make it much, much harder. The "terrible twos" get a bad rap, children are much more argumentative at age three.

Yea, I make sure my three-year-old goes to preschool to get plenty of interaction with other kids. But there's nothing inherently wrong with the fact that, by age two-and-a-half, this kid knew his ABCs, all of his colors, and could count to 20, partly due to mucking about on the computer. Yea, too much time spent in front of a screen, sitting still, doing any one thing is bad, but I'm not going to listen to someone who's suggesting it's somehow bad for young children to learn how to use a mouse and recognize ( and even read ) words at a young age, and trust me, we're not letting this kid get away plugging himself into any video device for hours at a time. He has too many damn little toys and too much to play with outside to do that.

Most of the kids in preschool know what Noggin.com is... some of them have their own ( internet-connected ) computers. This is not ( IMHO ) generally a bad thing.

Re:Finally

[calzones]

It's more 'intuitive' because when gramma takes it out of the box and starts using it, it will look and act like a one-button mouse.

At least I hope that's the default out of the box behavior because that's why Steve's been clinging to one-button mice all this time.

Think of the old people!

--
(and then her grandson billy comes over to use it to play WoW and reprograms it completely and Grammie comes to try it later and gets utterly confused....)

Re:Finally

[EraserMouseMan]

Normal 2 button mice have to clearly defined buttons.

Let's consider that you are a tech support guy and there's a new receptionist that you have to train (an older lady).
* If she's using a traditional 2 button mouse with two clearly defined buttons at the top of the mouse, you need only ask her to, "Click the left mouse button." She'll know exactly what you mean.
* If she's using this new mac mouse how would you ask her to perform a left-mouse-click operation?

Hey I've got a great new idea for a fantastic new "Cool Keys" mac keyboard. Just have a flat translucent plastic panel. There are no markings on it whatsoever. But whenever you touch it the letter you touched glows in a pulsing green. People will look at it and declair, "Wow look how user-friendly that is! Microsoft's version is so difficult to use! Some of those Microsoft keyboards have 127 keys. It's amazing how innovative and user-friendly this new mac zero-key keyboard is!"

Re:Finally

[ThinkingInBinary]

They can only sense the number of fingers, not which one. Synaptics touchpads, for example, return x, y, z (pressure), f (number of fingers), and w (width). Apple's driver translates 2 fingers down into scrolling; the Linux (maybe Windows too) driver translates one finger = left click, two fingers = right click, three fingers = middle click, and uses the right and bottom for scrolling.

I think they should just put one flat piece of plastic at the bottom, and attach two microswitches to it. In grandma mode, the switches do the same thing. In geek mode, the switches are separated into 2 buttons. (This might also make the button easier to push, maybe...)

Re:Finally

[empaler]

I remember once, when I worked in a hellhole of a computer store, a very shifty customer came to buy a mouse... He said he wanted the best, and he had already signed something using his right hand so I showed him our top-of-the-line five-button Logitech, made for right-handed people.

He then said that he was used to using the mouse in the left hand because "that's what he'd been taught was the smartest to do"... ... riiiiight.

Re:Finally

[cloudmaster]

Wait, you share a computer with your grandparents?

Re:Finally

[wkcole]

You're missing the context of the first two sentences and hence the implied dig at reality: the multibutton mouse as the norm for other platforms has led to to a certain amount of laziness in UI design and some very unintuitive and inelegant bits of UI design (e.g. the Athena scrollbar, the way Windows uses right-click-hold, etc.) which has fed back into a standard of at least 2 buttons and a creeping arms race in mice buttons with abominations like the Logitech mice and trackballs that have 6, 7, or 8 buttons and need their own documentation and configuration software to use effectively. Apple and others have argued for a long time that the single button mouse as a norm forces UI designers to think more carefully about what they are doing.

If you look at prominent examples of GUI platforms with regards to their accessibility for new users and the general level of application UI design quality, there is some evidence for that view. CDE/Motif, which was built for systems with 3 full-fledged buttons, has had about a decade of uniformly clunky and unintuiitive applications and a desktop that most of its users never really learn. KDE and GNOME are marginally better and grew out of a user community where that third button was not always present or was inferior to the first two (i.e. a clickable scroll wheel.) Windows and its apps tend to be another step up, because it started with 2 buttons. MacOS has always had just the one click (plus the very second-class modifier-key-click combos) and that has forced an economy of UI design on Apple and on application developers.

That said, I think Apple is giving in to the inevitable here. Even if it is slightly harder to teach and even if it leads to a little less economy of UI design, the market has settled on a rough de facto consensus of 2 first-class buttons and one or more second-class buttons on one-handed pointing devices. Application designers don't want to be restricted to single buttons any more than poets want to be required to write perfect sonnets, heroic couplets, haiku, or limmericks.

Re:Finally

[walueg]

Just look at this thing - a touch sensitive surface with a nipple thingy in it. How am I supposed to know where the different "buttons" are?

Oh no! I guess they didn't think of that! Just goes to show you can't satisfy a Democrat or a Wintel junkie. ;-) Looks pretty obvious to me. The squeeze points are separated from the rest of the shell. And there's a nipply thingie between the two main buttons. Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on one.

Re:Finally

[revscat]

Apple apps have context menus. I'm running Firefox, and the right-click performs just the same as it does on Windows. The main reason Apple pushes the one-button mouse is so that developers will think about interfaces. Nothing more.

I've had this argument myself at least twice on slashdot, and my karma took a big hit from stepping away from the Apple Party Line

Can you search for the discussion? Again, it's just that I've never personally seen such a zealot.

Re:Finally

[javaxman]

This thing is just the horrible membrane keyboard idea applied to a mouse.

It doesn't work like membrane keys at all, actually, if you look at the description. It appears that it still has a single hard-shell that 'clicks', just like the current mouse. Then it has two areas of "capacitive conductance" sensors under the shell. If it's in multi-button mode, it figures out which area your finger is pressed against harder. If it's not in multi-button mode, it doesn't care. So it works like my three-year-old wants when in single-button-mode; he shouldn't need to press only the top part of the mouse. Your 'any click of any button configured as a left click' is a good one, and actually possible right now, but it doesn't solve the 'any area' of the mouse issue. Now that my kid is a little older, he might be able to handle a switch to a logitech or something, but I might just get this Apple mouse ( hmmm or wait for a wireless version ) since I like the roll-ball idea.

Yea, go figure, who knew people only use their mp3 players on "shuffle" anyway? Now that I mention it, though, that's all I ever do, and I don't even own an Apple mp3 player...

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF?? How does making two buttons look like one, make this more intuitive? Elegant, maybe; intuitive, no fucking way.

It's now more intuitive to turn on your mac.

Just hold your Mighty Mouse firmly, squeeze the sides, and then rub the nipple.

Re:Finally

[Cloud K]

Just what I was thinking, of course the correct phrase would be
"Calm down, dear. It's only a mouse!"

On a related note, the remix of "calm down dear, it's just a commercial" (Windows Media codec required):
http://www.blogtelevision.net/p/Watch-Video-Calm__ _1,2,,8657.html

Re:Finally

[sdsichero]

I assume you tried it then?

I have no idea, but I would be interested in checking it out.

Now if they could but those images in there like the Optimus keyboard concept... hehehe

Re:Finally

[LKM]

WTF?? How does making two buttons look like one, make this more intuitive? Elegant, maybe; intuitive, no fucking way.

It seems that by default, it will act like a one-button-mouse, but those who want to can change it to act like a two-button-mouse. No need to get angry :-)

Re:Finally

[calzones]

parent is dead-on.

I think that's insightful and informative in one fell swoop.

Re:Finally

[balloonpup]

Off-topic, I know, but in my years doing residential tech support, she doesn't always know what you mean when you say "click the left mouse button." In fact, I can recall several times that this was a problem. Granted, it wouldn't help with the zero button mouse either (press down on the mouse?) but in all seriousness, you give people too much credit. Not to mension that a number of people had their computer set up left-handed by the next-door neighbor's kid, and left-click doesn't even do what it's supposed to at that point...

Re:Finally

[calzones]

rotflmao

Re:Finally

[legirons]

"The people who are saying the one button mouse has merits are considering grandma and grandpa, who had to practice to learn to double click."

To be fair, those people will have all sorts of problems in Mac OS X, where no two buttons require the same sort of mouse-click.

For example, single-click to go into a folder in system preferences, but double-click to go into a folder in Finder.

They'll love learning to click-and-hold to get any context menus, or apple-click (much more intuitive than a second button, if you're an EMACS user...)

X11 applications are the best - click twice on GIMP's toolbox to select a tool, then click twice on the image to use that tool...

Oh, and don't expect alt-tab (apple-tab) to work consistantly -- if the window you want is too similar to the one you're using, it becomes apple-backtick.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

What are the benefits of the new mouse? Do they outweigh the necessity of learning a new user interface unlike any other multi-button mouse? I don't think so. A trackball--a mouse on its back--is a better idea for those suffering from Repetitive Motion Injuries. But, the new mouse is "pretty."

And, please moderate your language.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't care. They're laughing all the way to the bank ;)

Re:Finally

[Bastian]

there are sensors similar to the ones used in the iPod scroll wheel

This is exactly why I have NO INTEREST in this mouse. I have an iPod from the generation where all of the buttons are touchpads like this.

I can't even take the damn thing out of my pocket without accidentally "pressing a button."

The last thing I need is a mouse that starts doing random shit every time I don't grab it in one clean, perfect motion. I like my computer's input devices to behave in a predictable manner, thank you very much.

Re:Finally

[Cloud K]

You can do something similar on the Powerbook/iBook with iScroll2. It can't detect which finger is on the touchpad (can't think how that'd be done) but if you tap with one finger already on the pad then it takes it as a right-click. Linky:
http://www-users.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de/~razzfazz/is croll2/

Even works on the "older" iBooks and Powerbooks that theoretically don't support the two finger scrolling... turns out it works just fine and Apple just enable some firmware switch on the new models which this hack does regardless.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, these aren't crumbs! Crumbs aren't curl-eeeeew!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I don't get it.

Re:Finally

[TheBunk]

"Right click with the right mouse button, on the right side of the mouse," was something I used to say a lot. One of the other techs used to give customers a lession in which was their left hand and which was their right, by having them hold their hands up in front of them, palms facing outwards: "If your index finger and thumb make an L, the it's your left hand."

Re:Finally

[milkman_matt]

Because the Apple fan-boys have been arguing that one button is best for many years, so they have to continue to pretend that one button is somehow better.
---
I have, specifically in the context of training inexperienced users. And I've seen it on Slashdot, to boot.

Well, isn't that true? Some people just aren't ready for a 2 button mouse. Those of us who are, already have one (like a previous poster said) that we would have swapped out with whatever apple gave us anyway. Think back on the mice they've provided throughout the years, would you honestly have KEPT those mice provided they were 2 button? or even 3? or even with a scroll wheel? They weren't the nicest things to work with..

Hell, in my office most of us already have nice contoured optical logitechs. We've replaced a few systems with new Dell systems and whatnot, although they were provided by dell, 2 things were not used, the speakers, and the mice, and Dell provides some pretty nice 2 button mice with scrollwheels, but most of us already have something even better and more comfortable (or that we're more comfortable with.)

Re:Finally

[tsa]

Don't get me started! Instant RSI, that mouse will give you. I still have the G3 iMac (love it, pity it doesn't run Tiger) but I didn't know how fast to replace that mouse. I also replaced the keyboard because Apple keyboards are crap. For the rest, it's a pretty neat machine, not too slow considering the 266 MHz processor, 192 MB and OSX 10.3.9.

Re:Finally

[Bishop923]

...You can thank the iPod for getting us here.
"It's all about where you put your finger."

I thought women got us there long ago...

Re:Finally

[tsa]

Yes, you get the same menu you get when you hold the mouse button down long. Even the scrollwheel works. The only thing that doesn't work is the middle button, so in Firefox you have to right-click and then choose Open in new Tab to get your link in a new tab (as opposed to klicking the middle button in Linux and Windows). But, a three-butten wheel mouse really improves the Mac-experience!

Re:Finally

[djkuhl]

I can't even take the damn thing out of my pocket without accidentally "pressing a button."

There's a switch on the side of the iPod that turns off the buttons when you want do say, stick it in your pocket.

Re:Finally

[sammy baby]

Okay - I have seen this argument, specificially in the context of training. On Slashdot. Here's the URL: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=157816&cid=132 24464

Re:Finally

[Hal_Porter]

They're not overdone like on Windows though (for example, if there's no useful action, you'll get no context menu at all, rather than a "what's this" that points to an empty documentation string, or some such bullshit). Also, unlike some Windows software, there's usually an alternative way to get the job done just in case you can't right-click.


The right windows key usually brings up a context menu in Windows. It's up the application whether a window has a context menu or not though.

Re:Finally

[Mozk]

Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today's multibutton world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do?
Yes, who has time for making a good and easy-to-use UI when there's so many places to put buttons, menus, and images?

I thought Apple's idea was not to hide things in right-click menus, but to keep it all at the top so you can find it...?

Re:Finally

[wildsurf]

A zero button mouse from Apple! Truly less is more!

Does that mean... Apple is going to patent Zero-Click Shopping?

Re:Finally

[mr100percent]

Nobody said that a single-button UI is the best and only way to use it. Plenty of Mac users I know have multiple-button mice. However, computer newbies frequently get confused over right and left mouse buttons. I've seen many older family members give up in frustration as they keep calling up menus that they cant shake away with their mouse.

The one-button option is good, you can use the computer with it and not be deprived of any features. Windows requires 2 buttons, or else you can't access certain portions of the OS. OS X supports multiple buttons, but doesn't require them, making it easy for grandmothers and powerful for Maya users.

Re:Finally

[dgatwood]

Flip side of that is that because the Logitech trackballs are so programmable with so many buttons, you can use it to automate certain tasks. I have mine programmed so that the buttons trigger certain keystrokes for critical transport functions in my DAW. Thus, when I'm sitting halfway across the room during a recording session, I can start the thing recording, stop, rewind, etc. without walking over to see the screen.

Now, granted, there are controllers designed for that sort of thing, but they cost a lot more than my wireless trackball, and... oh, yeah... aren't wireless.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a mouse with more than two or three buttons makes sense, but for a trackball, it's not an abomination. In the hands of a power user, it can serve a very useful purpose.

Re:Finally

[Khuffie]

Apple's own software, Final Cut, DVDStudio Pro, Shake, uses the context menus a lot. So that alone destroys your point about UI design, since Apple doesnt seem to follow it themselves.

Re:Finally

[Hope Thelps]

My argument was "When you're explaining something to somebody, explain the least complex method." Usually, the "least complex method" does not involve the right mouse button.

When someone asks me how to do something, the least complex way is to tell them the way that I know how to do it. Please don't tell me that if I'm willing to be helpful then there should be no limits to the effort I'm willing to put into it.

Re:Finally

[zephc]

to quote Bruce Lee: "Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the Heavenly Glory"

Re:Finally

[Tekzel]

This was exactly the comment I was about to make, but decided it wasnt worth my time. Funny this got modded troll. Wish I had mod points do I could mod it where it should be - funny. The iPod be damned, Apple is still irrelevant. Heres a hint Apple folks, they don't make one button mousing devices because its "elegant". They make them because its "intuitive". Translation: They think you are all idiots and cant figure out how to use more than one finger at a time.

Re:Finally

[Moofie]

I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this. I do not understand why, given two methods to solve a problem, you'd pick the harder one.

But hey, if that's what tweaks your motor, knock yourself out.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

ROFFLE

Re:Finally

[itcomesinwaves]

You are right that these tasks might be more difficult without a right button, but they are all still possible. Playing a song next in party shuffle is the worst because it requires a 2 drags and a click (drag song to party shuffle, click on party shuffle, drag desired song after currently playing song). The other two are arguably easier. In iCal drag the event onto the Mail program icon. In Safari, command click opens the page in a new window/tab, option click downloads the link, and dragging the link (to the desktop or bookmark bar) saves the link.

Re:Finally

[bleaknik]

Actually, Joe User is better of with a one button mouse. I worked in a tech support center for quite some time, and the most frustrating problem we had was explaining to the user the difference between the buttons...

Frustrating as it was, most Windows users never use the right mouse button, and none of them know what a context menu is. Once you get it through their tiny brains that a mouse has two buttons, then EVERY FRIGGING TIME YOU HAVE THEM CLICK ANYWHERE ELSE...

"With the right button?"
"Do I use the right button?"
"Which button do I use?"

Joe User does not deserve a two button mouse, and Apple has the right idea... Anything you can do in any application should be able to be done through the menu.

For all of you "Idiots" out there... I'm sure you already use a multibutton mouse with your Mac. And yes, you can pick up a logitech mouse with more features for the same price... but by the same token, you can pick up a Dell Jukebox for almost half of what you can pick up an iPod, yet how much better is the iPod selling? Typically Apple customers are willing to pay the extra buck for the "elegance". Who's to say they're wrong.

Re:Finally

[Paradox]

To be fair, those people will have all sorts of problems in Mac OS X, where no two buttons require the same sort of mouse-click. For example, single-click to go into a folder in system preferences, but double-click to go into a folder in Finder.

Double clicking there hurts nothing. The system deliberately pauses to eat the second click. This confusion is part of the modern expectation for an interface, Apple can't just do away with it. Part of usability is conforming to expectations. When you do exceed expectations, you have to do it gently and obviously.

They'll love learning to click-and-hold to get any context menus, or apple-click (much more intuitive than a second button, if you're an EMACS user...)

I'm always surprised how quickly people catch on to click-and-hold.

X11 applications are the best - click twice on GIMP's toolbox to select a tool, then click twice on the image to use that tool...

Who could forget the all-important X11 usability metric! :P~ Sorry, don't write applications that assume focus-follows-mouse and we'll talk. For the real geeks out there, you can enable focus follows mouse.

Oh, and don't expect alt-tab (apple-tab) to work consistantly -- if the window you want is too similar to the one you're using, it becomes apple-backtick.

Apple-tab switches applications. Just because the windows system is stupid and goes by window doesn't mean you should rely on that. Oh, and since it doesn't conform to your expectation, they did it very obviously with that huge app-switcher. Command-tilde is a power-user function.

Re:Finally

[Bastian]

Yeah, a switch that is flush with the side of the iPod so I can't easily flick it, I have to slide it with my fingernail.

A badly-designed hold switch is not a substitute for good hardware design.

Re:Finally

[bryan1945]

"Ummm... because my desktop is neither round nor curved?"

Wuss- real men use spherical furniture!

Re:Finally

[wkcole]

Okay, so maybe 'abomination' was a bit strong... I had the 7-button wireless trackball and was completely unimpressed with its design for use as a 3-button trackball: the 2 extra pairs of buttons force unergonomic design on the rest of the device, and unless you are doing something rather specialized where you really want a remote for a particular device or application that you use all the time, the ergonomic compromises outweigh the convenience. For a large fraction of users who lack the digital (old meaning...) dexterity of a musician or touch-typist or the specialized need, 7 buttons plus a poorly-placed trackball add up to a nuisance more than a tool.

Re:Finally

[sp0rk173]

mod "-5000000000: moron" for saying "Aunt Tillie." Ugh.

Re:Finally

[damsa]

*No digital audio out on the Macs or decent digital audio chipset (thanks to the never-ending litigation between Apple Computer and Apple Corps). Feel free to correct me on this if I'm incorrect.

I thought this had more to do with their agreement with McIntosh audio, where Apple agreed not to make audio equipment.

Re:Finally

[Moofie]

Wow. What ever shall I do? Somebody named "sp0rk173" thinks I'm a moron.

Self-confidence...waning...can't...summon...will.. .to live...

Re:Finally

[gg3po]

The most disturbing thing is (as of this posting) that the mods felt your post was more insightful than funny.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Alright. I'll give you a calm answer even though it's obvious that you're a complete reactionary who also probably hasn't read any other material about this mouse.

First off: Use your hold switch when the ipod is in your pocket. that's what it's there for. and if you're like the child poster, who for some reason HAS to use his fingernail to operate the switch then please cut your nails because you can easily operate it just like any other sliding hold switch.

Also, your generation of iPod has a touch sensitive buttons. Yes, they were not a good UI manoeuvre, which is why they were abandoned. The mouse does NOT have these type of buttons. A simple search on your part would have gotten you the answer that the button is combo touch and pressure sensitive.

Not only would a mouse like this behave predictably, but, like another user pointed out, the progressive disclosure of the mouse first being a one button mouse and then a two button mouse is where the UI really shines. I could care less about macs vs pc vs mouses, but a notably positive direction in interface design demands notice and also demands that idiots like you are kept at bay.

Re:Finally

[soft_guy]

It sounds like you weren't trying very hard if youo didn't even try right clicking to see what happens.

Yes, context menus were introduced in MacOS 8. You can get to them by right clicking or (if you have a one button mouse) control-clicking.

Re:Finally

[Hes Nikke]

Explorer (look at the desktop... where is the menu bar?)
Start menu (how do you tweak that monster?)
Tray (if i left click it does one thing, if i right click i get options - look i can get rid of the damned MSN icon!)

and that's without even thinking about it.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh.. I don't get it either.
I'll just take a guess they mean pubic hair or.. something.

Re:Finally

[petermgreen]

i presume this mouse will need special driver support.

i wonder if anyone will do a pc driver or if this mouse will be only usable with a mac.

Re:Finally

[lord sibn]

More importantly, if I understand TFA correctly, the default behaviour will not know or care which finger you use to generate your "clicks."

It looks like a standard 1 button Apple(tm) mouse. It acts like a standard 1 button Apple(tm) mouse. However, unlike vanilla standard Apple(tm) brand mouse devices, you can optionally configure it to mimic the behaviour of already-available multibutton mouse devices.

Maybe my understanding is lacking something, but that was how i read the marketspeak.

Re:Finally

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

No, the left and right clicks are real clicks, just the same button.

The speaker is probably for the scrolling and squeezing.

Re:Finally

[wkcole]

I don't think it even speaks to my point. That Apple makes heavy use of contextual menus in a few niche products (all of which I believe originated as outside products bought by Apple, FWIW) does not conflict with anything I wrote. Contextual menus are not intrinsically poor UI design and don't depend on multi-button mice. Contextual menus on MacOS as a system UI element date to MacOS 8.0 and had previously been implemented since System 6 by various 3rd-party apps.

And besides that, I'm perfectly aware that Apple is wildly inconsistent, particularly when viewed over a multi-year time frame. There probably isn't a page in the HIG they have not at some point violated directly in some piece of software, but the G is for Guidelines after all, not Holy Writ. I don't use the apps you cite, so I can't say whether they make wise use of contextual menus or not, but even if they don't that would not invalidate the principles of what 'wise use' is.

Re:Finally

[glesga_kiss]

Can you search for the discussion? Again, it's just that I've never personally seen such a zealot.

It wouldn't tell you much, even if you were to find it. The problem wasn't the people in the discussion, the last one I remember was quite interesting, arguments from both sides with people who actually seemed to have thought about UI design.

The zealots were in the moderations, the comments bounce up and down. It's quite funny sometimes. Check out my original comment, currently at +1 (which is -1 really, due to karma bonus). However, it's had at least 5 or 6 +1's, and the corresponding -1's to bring it down. Yes, my comment was part cheeky, but even in the previous discussions I speak of the modding was just as silly. As you can only see moderations to your own comments, finding the threads would be pointless.

The only reason you can still see my first comment was the "let the down modding commence" gag. Otherwise, it would be at -1 now. :-)

Re:Finally

[Hope Thelps]

I do not understand why, given two methods to solve a problem, you'd pick the harder one.

I do not understand why, given the existence and widespread use of context menus, that you would conclude that everyone in the world finds them harder to use than the alternatives. All you have to do is to be capable of trusting people who have nothing to gain by lying and who tell you "Actually, I find them convenient and I use them as a standard approach to doing stuff". It's as simple as that.

Some people find it easier to write with their left hand. I don't, but I believe the ones that do. They don't need to convince me.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a lighter touch on your mouse then. Try shifting your hand wieght to the back of the mouse rather than the front.

Re:Finally

[lgw]

Those are some odd special cases.

The desktop is a special way of viewing the root of the file tree. The lack of a menu is a feature here! But you can get to the menu by selecting desktop in explorer.

You tweak that monster by right-clicking on the Start menu to select open or explore (but you can also get there the hard way if you know where the Start menu lives in the file tree - I never bother to remember.)

The Quick Launch tray is a weird special case. It doesn't really have any menu options, as each item in the tray is part of a different program. You can generally find the same options you get from right-clicking the icon by running whatever program is associated with that icon (though sadly designers do a particularly poor job with this).

Re:Finally

[Moofie]

I'm not talking about people who are comfortable with computers. I'm talking about people who are confused by right click, left click, double click, when do I double-right click?

I'm not saying contextual menus should go away (although I don't happen to care for them at all). I'm saying they're a poor excuse for good user interface, and they are confusing to computer neophytes, who are the people who have benefited from Apple's reluctance to use multi-button mice as a factory default.

Re:Finally

[MoneyT]

Having been lucky enough to use one today, I can assure you that it functions just like any other mouse, with a tactile click when you press down. The second button functionality comes from resting fingers on the mouse. Remove your index finger so that you're only touching the right side, and it's a right click. Put it back or touch only the left side and it's a regular click. It's actually pretty neat.

Re:Finally

[SA Stevens]

Some of us like 3 button interfaces. And X11 has had a three button mouse for longer than many people have even known what a mouse is.

Re:Finally

[jaseparlo]

Thankyou! I wish I had a mod point to give you.

People who think Mac stuff is designed for idiots are generally in positions where they don't regularly have to support laypeople trying to use a highly complex and over complicated piece of equipment (ie a computer) just to get simple tasks done.

The average person is too computer illiterate to use windows, Word or a two button mouse. A car has a million less buttons, dials, readouts and controls than a 747. You could put heaps more stuff in a car, but you don't. Because to drive a car, you don't need all that other stuff.

A win/*nix computer on the other hand, has all that other complicated stuff, and makes it available to everyone. Why have it? It just makes my job more complicated. People don't want to fly a 747, they want to drive a car. They generally don't even want a manual, they want auto. Give everyone one button, give them the Simple Finder and show them only the four applications they need, and let them cahnge the desktop picture. That's all they want, really. The rest just confuses them.

Re:Finally

[Hope Thelps]

All I did was try to answer your question as to why I would answer a question by telling someone to right click.

Common, real life, example: Friend, relative or coworker phones me. They're having trouble doing something on their computer and are hoping I can help. I don't have a computer in front of me, or it doesn't have the same applications, or otherwise isn't much help to me in answering the question. I *know* that right clicking in such-and-such a place is a solution, because that's how I do it. So that's what I say.

Have you ever had the joy of talking through a solution you don't use yourself over a phone? The guy on the other end reading through lists of words and then trying to describe the contents of windows that pop up? (Don't get me started on the evils of Microsoft's self-hiding menu items - complete insanity).

Help over the phone is at the extreme end because you can't see what's happening at all, but the same applies when you're standing there with the person too. You either get them to pull up menus and so forth until you find what you need or else you sit there in their place and do it. Either way is unsatisfactory when you *know* how to do it already with a right click and the person is asking you a quick question to which you can give a quick answer.

This is why I would be likely to advise someone to right-click when answering their question of how to do something.

I'm saying they're a poor excuse for good user interface

So what is the criteria here? Just what your neophytes can use? I'm a USER of computers. I'm one of the people the interface is there for. I find contextual menus useful. Does that count for anything?

Re:Finally

[Moofie]

"Have you ever had the joy of talking through a solution you don't use yourself over a phone?"

Welcome to my life. This is why I choose simple instructions rather than dissertations on when the right click is necessary.

Sure, sometimes the contextual menus are a shortcut. However, it's also very difficult to locate a function that's buried in one of them, and isn't accessible from other places. "Oh, I was supposed to right click on THIS pixel, not THAT pixel! Now I understand!"

"I find contextual menus useful."

Sure, they can be useful. Or they can be obfuscated and confusing. I find that the second case is more prevalent than the first, by a substantial margin.

"Does that count for anything?"

You've got an opinion just like I do. Consider yourself validated, and not like parking.

Re:Finally

[SA Stevens]

The point is, a kid who flips out because of a three button mouse is a kid who probably shouldn't be left in a room alone with a hamster and a bell-peen hammer.

Re:Finally

[AlfredoLambda]

The only thing that doesn't work is the middle button, so in Firefox you have to right-click and then choose Open in new Tab to get your link in a new tab (as opposed to klicking the middle button in Linux and Windows)

That's a Firefox bug, and it's already fixed in the nightly builds (and in Deer Park)

Re:Finally

[The Lynxpro]

"I thought this had more to do with their agreement with McIntosh audio, where Apple agreed not to make audio equipment."

Nope, the agreement was with Apple Corps., aka Apple Records, the company owned by the Beatles.

McIntosh is now owned by Denon. Denon, which is 1/2 (or more) controlling interest in D&M Holdings, owns the remnants of ReplayTV, and also sold off Rio about a week ago.

Re:Finally

[javaxman]

The point is, a kid who flips out because of a three button mouse is a kid who probably shouldn't be left in a room alone with a hamster and a bell-peen hammer.

Points for funny, but I don't think I've met the kid who should be left alone in a room with a hamster, period. Forget the hammer... your taking your chances at "left in a room". Kids require supervision.

It's not like he couldn't operate the mouse, he just found it frustrating... because it was simply not as easy to use. There was just this one tiny area he had to press to get anything useful done, where before he'd just press. It was a big difference. He managed, but it wasn't worth putting him through it on a permanent basis.

Re:Finally

[damsa]

They did have a ten year agreement starting in 1987. Apple was actually using the name Macintosh under license from McIntosh Labs.

http://www.gelsing.ca/blog/?p=24

Re:Finally

[eikonos]

I don't use a single Windows app where a function is only available from the contextual menu. Interesting... do you find it hard to get anything done using only Notepad? Seriously though, for a specific example: many tray icons only work with a right-click.

Re:Finally

[AvitarX]

2 quick examples of context menus as simplest solution on a MAC.

ex 1) changer desktop background, rightclick desktop, click change background image, or explain what system tools looks like, telling them to click it, then wait for 5 minutes as they look for desktop and screensaver.

ex 2) Zipping a folder.

rightclick folder, create archive.

click on folder go to file go to create archive. oh you double clicked it, start over again etc.

If you have an application like stuffit that installs into the context menu it is much easier to explain than using the application.

The only problem is the MAC users that are new and have Apple mice, they can never figure out where control is.

Re:Finally

[soft_guy]

Your friend is a bozo.

Re:Finally

[antic]

Try Photoshop -- you use the right-mouse button to select layers which have something visible at that position of the image. Much more convenient that having to scour a layer palette with 100+ layers.

Re:Finally

[revscat]

In other words, you have no solid proof to offer. Fair enough, but your claim stands as unproven.

Re:Finally

[QuaZar666]

That's because macs are designed for people that want to get work done, rather than fight the OS. Think of all the problems people have with PCs such as viruses, spyware, application uninstall problems, the registry. Sure you can have problems on Macs but they are usually user and application specific and I would say that 95% of all application problems are related to some kind of plist file that just needs to be removed.

Re:Finally

[Reaperducer]

I wonder if the mouse can be programmed to emit a squeak noise when you squeeze it.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd just tell her to click! Being a naive user, she'd be using the single button mode and keep it simple, without ever suspecting anything.

I know most people can't think anything useful can be done without a "right mouse button"... an expression which is confusing in itself, if you just think of it... couldn't the old lady answer "I've only got one mouse"? ;-)

The whole point of Apple's reliance on a single mouse button is exactly this: you'd never even need to teach the old lady what that pesky "right mouse button" is.

The idea is that a good UI should be perfectly usable with a single button. Trained users can then choose to use the "right mouse button" for speed it they want to. Surely enough, the old lady could happly keep using the single button saving a few troubles to herself and to the tech support as well!

It's the same concept of menus and shortcut: in the beginning you click on menu options, then you learn the shortcuts and gain speed, with little effort.

It's not just a theoretical concept: you really can use well designed software on the Mac with a single mouse button: given it's standard on Mac, it shouldn't be too surprising!. I never bothered to buy a mainstream mouse for the iMac I bought for my wife, which I use from time to time, though I normally use a standard mouse with my laptop (hey, my Amiga had two buttons already! :-)

The real genius in Apple's solution is that it will keep developers honest (regarding the single button usability) while allowing users choose a single or a double button mouse via software (something that wouldn't work if it were implemented with two phisical buttons). Great job IMHO!

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

... that sense which finger you're using.

hmmmm This can lead to interesting uses.

IT is funny!

Re:Finally

[Zhe Mappel]

Yeah, but best of all... Since the announcement, OS X just feels snappier!

Re:Finally

[jayratch]

If I recall the quicklaunch is a folder of shortcuts, just like the desktop. The desktop button on it is unique, really it just references command-D but I recall from back then that there was no obvious way to recreate it if accidentally deleted. Now I just hit F11 and the desktop magically appears, no mouse required.

I don't know for sure, though. I ditched my PC about six years after becoming a mac zealot (that is to say, as soon as I could afford to buy a modern Mac, ie June).

I only became a mac zealot because I'm a competent enough geek to be limited by windows, but not quite competent enough to get anywhere on Linux etc.

This mouse looks neat, I guess. Thinner than my logitech, maybe that's a perk? Matches all the other white stuff on my desk?

Not really sure. With Expose and Dashboard I'm not really of the opinion that four buttons are enough. I have 8 on my mouse and I could do with more if I knew where to put them.

Hey, here's a cool idea. What if we had a separate thing just to hold buttons? That way we could keep track of more than just 8 or 9 and get to them easily. I bet we could easily make a controller with something like 100 buttons and sit it on the desk right next to the mouse.

Hmm, let me think about this one.

I'll stick with my Logitech- wireless, comfortable, functional- until something genuinely better comes along.

Re:Finally

[Hes Nikke]

Those are some odd special cases.
they may be odd special cases, but they are what popped into my mind when you used the absolute word never. Thus, I have proved you wrong. ;)

The desktop is a special way of viewing the root of the file tree. The lack of a menu is a feature here! But you can get to the menu by selecting desktop in explorer.
Well, no, the desktop is buried in the windows folder (9x) or My Documents folder (NT) - the root of the file tree would be "My Computer" - an icon that happens to be represented on the desktop. (Microsoft has a habit of making things complex - I liked the way Mac OS 9 did it, the desktop was a meta-folder that included the desktop items on all volumes, now OS X does it the Microsoft way :\ )

You tweak that monster [Star Menu] by right-clicking on the Start menu to select open or explore (but you can also get there the hard way if you know where the Start menu lives in the file tree - I never bother to remember.)
aha! you just proved me right, you tweak it by right clicking - the start tree is also buried in the Windows/Documents folder and you can sort of manipulate it, but there are a few things that you need to go into the control panel to manipulate it - again, quite difficult without a right mouse button.

The Quick Launch tray is a weird special case. It doesn't really have any menu options, as each item in the tray is part of a different program. You can generally find the same options you get from right-clicking the icon by running whatever program is associated with that icon (though sadly designers do a particularly poor job with this).
There is a Quick Launch bar and a System Tray - they are different things. the QL Bar is really just another folder displayed as one click buttons, not a big deal. The system try - as you mentioned - is a catchall for a bunch of programs to throw shit into. And most of them can't be removed without... right clicking on the icon.

Re:Finally

[Cinder6]

Having been lucky enough to use one today, I can assure you that it functions just like any other mouse, with a tactile click when you press down. The second button functionality comes from resting fingers on the mouse. Remove your index finger so that you're only touching the right side, and it's a right click. Put it back or touch only the left side and it's a regular click. It's actually pretty neat. I hope I am reading this wrong. You have to remove your left finger from the mouse to initiate a right click? That sounds awful. Maybe if I use it, it won't seem so bad.

Re:Finally

[Anubis350]

that's so that the switch doesnt get flipped in your pocket. My discman used to have that problem...

Re:Finally

[tsa]

That's fantastic, thanks for the info. I never use nightly builds so I guess I'll have to wait for the next `official' release. I thought it was an Apple problem (or feature).

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

> I think they should just put one flat piece of
> plastic at the bottom, and attach two microswitches
> to it.

I think that they should just force Mac users to shove their 'power'books up their collective fanboi ass and be done with it.

Then the rest of us won't have to listen to this drivel about how a multi-button mouse WITHOUT BUTTONS is somehow more intuitive than the alternative.

Apple isn't easier, isn't smarter, isn't less crash-prone, and isn't 'different'. It's just fucking lame.

Re:Finally

[Ilgaz]

When I saw a mouse with 2 buttons ship from Apple I just checked the known trolls comments.

"huh? no wireless.. Suxors!My Dell came with..."

You can't stop trolls :)

Re:Finally

[Ilgaz]

Tactile feedback... Staring to my iFeel mouse from logitech which is declared as "dead"...

http://www.sharkygames.com/hardware/reviews/contro ller/ifeel/

That "thing" died(!) because of lack of drivers and Immersion's lack of focus on gaming developers.

Worse, it was in fact excellent for desktop experience. They shifted focus to gaming which was non existaTactile feedback... Staring to my iFeel mouse from logitech which is declared as "dead"...

http://www.sharkygames.com/hardware/reviews/contro ller/ifeel/

That "thing" died (!) because of lack of drivers and Immersion's lack of focus on gaming developers.

Worse, it was excellent for desktop experience. They shifted their focus to gaming which was non existent (except UT2xxx) so desktop stuff was kind of given up too.

The company they purchased the amazing technology (its more than vibrating) is
http://www.immersion.com/gaming/products/touchware /TWGaming.php

As Logitech giant gave up, maybe another company would license it I thought. Apple didn't. That was the exact thing needed for that mouse. Maybe their new "power" fashion, I don't know since iFeel mouse uses 500mA unlike other mouses.

Let me tell a funny thing, the SDK/Driver is included on every OS X since 10.2.8. Logitech still uses immersion stuff on other products.

The mouse would rock though :) A missed chance.

nt (except UT2xxx) so desktop stuff was kind of given up too.

The company they purchased the amazing technology (its more than vibrating) is
http://www.immersion.com/gaming/products/touchware /TWGaming.php

As Logitech giant gave up, maybe another company would license it I thought. Apple didn't. That was the exact thing needed for that mouse. Maybe their new "power" freakness, I don't know since iFeel mouse uses 500mA unlike other mouses.

Let me tell a funny thing, the SDK/Driver is included on every OS X since 10.2.8. Logitech still uses immersion stuff on other products.

Mouse would rock though :) A missed chance.

Re:Finally

[Ilgaz]

(sorry for replying own post)
that's what happens if you don't click "preview" after grammar checking the post. Sorry.

Re:Finally

[glesga_kiss]

In other words, you have no solid proof to offer.

Starting Score: 1 point
Moderation 0
50% Insightful
30% Overrated
20% Troll
Extra 'Insightful' Modifier 0 (Edit)
Total Score: 1

I think the highest it was at any one time was +4. Currently +1. Was down at 0 once I think.

Fair enough, but your claim stands as unproven.

What claim? That I've had this discussion before, or that people moderate based on their own beliefs? I think neither of them "stands as unproven" round these parts.

Re:Finally

[MoneyT]

it does appear that you need to remove your index finger from the left side to make a right click, however, this isn't nearly as unnatural as it seems, but then, that just could be how I mouse naturaly.

Re:Finally

[carou]

And, please moderate your language.

Your language. (Score:-1, Not big, Not clever)

Re:Finally

[ThinkingInBinary]

You know, I'm starting to agree.

My brother explained to me that this mouse cannot in fact tell which button you are pressing. If, like everyone on earth, you rest both your fingers on the mouse when you click, it doesn't know which button you're pushing. It's really lame.

I wish there was a company that made an OS that was better than Windows, hardware that was cheaper than Apple, and software that is better supported (e.g., Linux + better driver support from manufacturers) than Linux. (Not that Linux isn't well-supported, but obviously Windows, by way of market share, has better driver support.) Windows is too crappy, Apple/Mac OS X is too expensive, cult-powered, and toy-like, and Linux doesn't have enough drivers.

Re:Finally

[Stween]

The sex drive. Is that, like, a removable USB2.0 drive or something?

Re:Finally

[DRue]

He then said that he was used to using the mouse in the left hand because "that's what he'd been taught was the smartest to do"... ... riiiiight.

The old programmer guys I work with all are right handed, but use their left hand for their mouse. They claim it's more efficient because then you can use that space on the right to take notes and whatnot. I don't really get it myself..

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

And the result? 5 years from now, grandma and grandpa will still not be able to use a multi mouse button and suffer from heavy RSI in their single finger.

Got to love progress!

Re:Finally

[revscat]

It could very easily be argued that the message in question was deserving of those moderations, espeically if the moderators believe as I do that your message was largely a strawman, and that the positive moderations were therefore unfair.

Re:Finally

[Cinder6]

it does appear that you need to remove your index finger from the left side to make a right click, however, this isn't nearly as unnatural as it seems, but then, that just could be how I mouse naturaly.

I see. I will probably have to use it. The way it /seems/ is that you constantly have to worry about where your fingers are...but then again, I have to use both mouse buttons quite often.

Re:Finally

[Yusaku Godai]

Yeah, it's a USB-powered Fleshlight with a 512MB memory chip built-in.

Re:Finally

[Bastian]

Heh, but as the review points out, the mouse also makes chording impossible, and I've heard that you have to take your index finger off of the mouse to right-click.

Seriously, what positive direction in interface design does this mouse take other than that Apple has finally figured out how to get middle and right clicks out of a device without sacrificing the all-important illusion of it being the world's largest aspirin?

Re:Finally

[lgw]

"Never" doesn't mean what you think it means. :p

Win9x is just crap - I've never used it so I don't no much about it. For any modern Windows (and even NT4 IIRC, but certainly W2K and beyond) the "Desktop" node is the *top* of the file tree. Many people don't notice that, for it being in such an obvious place - go check if you don't believe me.

Right - about it being harder without the right mouse button. I think that was my whole point about UIs! I never bother with nemu trees, the idea is just annoying.

Actually, everything in the right-click menu for the system tray, including removeing the icon, is *supposed* to be available from the menu tree for whatever it launches, just like everywhere else. The system tray is home to the only way to get to many Really Crappy Programs(TM), however, that just don't care about UI standards.

In every case, the context menu makes life easier, and I hate being without it, as I have little patience with searching menu trees. This is why I can't use a machine with a 1-button mouse.

Re:Finally

[lgw]

Tray icon context menu functions are *supposed* to be part of the menu tree for the app they launch, just like any other context menus, but for some reason coders who just suck at UI design *love* that tray, and always seem to throw their loose shit in there.

In any case, why would you care wherer a context menu item was hidden in the meu tree somewhere, when it's right there in the context menu already? :)

Hell...

[jwthompson2]

has frozen over and the devil has taken up hockey and ice fishing...

Re:Hell...

[iwrasahp]

It is a sign... the end of the world is at hand. On the bright side, my mac runs much faster with this new mouse installed.

Re:Hell...

[CableModemSniper]

I believe the word you were looking for is "snappier".

Re:Hell...

[Netsensei]

In other news:

Discovery will return safely after all. Nasa officials seen laughing their asses off.

("Dang, this was the best prank one yet since that apollo 11 goof!")

Re:Hell...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Dang, this was the best prank one yet since that apollo 11 goof!"

I assume you mean Apollo 13 (sorta funny) or perhaps Apollo 1 (you sick bastard).

Re:Hell...

[bwalling]

has frozen over and the devil has taken up hockey and ice fishing...

Hockey and ice fishing is pretty much how I imagined hell...

Re:Hell...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, he's just on vacation in Minnesota.. The ice on Lake Minnetonka will be melted in another week or so, just in time for kids to go back to school! :-)

Ya Betcha!

Re:Hell...

[ncc74656]

It is a sign... the end of the world is at hand.

Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, biblical?
Ray: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor... real Wrath-of-God-type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies.
Venkman: Rivers and seas boiling!
Egon: 40 years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanoes.
Winston: The dead rising from the grave!
Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats, living together... mass hysteria!

Re:Hell...

[Anonymous Coward]

no dumbass, it's: 'teh snappy'

Re:Hell...

[Milican]

Umm... I'm almost positive that Ray says the last line about dogs and cats.

JOhn

Re:Hell...

[ncc74656]

Umm... I'm almost positive that Ray says the last line about dogs and cats.

It was a cut-and-paste from here. It's been a while since I've seen the movie, so I'm kinda fuzzy on who said what.

Re:Hell...

[19thNervousBreakdown]

You should wait until you're positive.

Re:Hell...

[sambira]

has definitely frozen over. First the Intel switch and now a "2-3-4" button mouse in the guise of a one button mouse. Yikes!!!

Re:Hell...

[theantipop]

Good news for lawyers everywhere!

Re:Hell...

[Snuffub]

Well at least that means someone's playing hockey.

Re:Hell...

[Hogwash McFly]

Sorry to be offtopic, but has anyone else completed the third level of Duke Nukem Forever? I only managed to get my copy a few hours ago so I'm a bit behind most people. I'm stuck at the part just after the red light district and I keep getting killed by the Octobrains lurking there. Cool game though, I like how it retains the trademark wit and satire, although I think the new Wet T-Shirt Cannon is a bit of a cheesy addition.

Re:Hell...

[Phat_Tony]

That's odd, does anyone else think it looks kind of strange? From the name, I was expecting it to look more like this.

Re:Hell...

[jonadab]

> [Hell] has frozen over and the devil has taken up hockey and ice fishing...

We already knew that, last month, when the new version of Debian came out.

Re:Hell...

[darthnoodles]

So...SCO won their case???

Re:Hell...

[wjames]

Well at least with Hell frozen over I wont be warm when I join the rest of penguin users....

Re:Hell...

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll be using the old round Apple mice for pucks I imagine.

Re:Hell...

[Captain Nitpick]

Umm... I'm almost positive that Ray says the last line about dogs and cats.

It was definitely Bill Murray's Venkman.

Re:Hell...

[Jay Random the Other]

Actually, Hell froze over in 1995. Proof:

1. The Devilswon the Stanley Cup.

2. Satan began playing in the National Hockey League. (For the Edmonton Oilers, no less, which shows just how cold Hell was that year.)

3. The Beatles reunited, even including the late John Lennon.

What happened today is quite different. According to reliable news sources, a new species of winged pigs has been sighted in the skies all round the world.

Do please keep your cliche calendar up to date!

Re:Hell...

[Milican]

Shit. You're right. I knew it was Bill Murray, but I thought he was Ray. Sorry for the confusion. Feel free to mod me down to hell... hehe

JOhn

I wonder...

[tangledbank]

...how well Duke Nukem Forever plays on it.

seen it all now

[Anonymous Coward]

multi button mouse for macs?!? after x86?!?!
i have now seen everything, i may rest knowing nirvana. i ca- CARRIER LOST

Heeeere I come

[Se7enLC]

Heeeeere I come, 10 years too laaaaaaate!!

Welcome to the mid 80s with the multi-button mice, apple.

Re:Heeeere I come

[macaulay805]

Hah, the same thing can also be said for their switch to x86 processors.

Re:Heeeere I come

[Anonymous Coward]

A little math problem or wishful thinking? The mid eighties were 20 years ago.

Re:Heeeere I come

[Goth Biker Babe]

What? Welcome to the mid 1980s :-). I agree, moving to Intel is going back to the 80s.

Re:Heeeere I come

[Se7enLC]

20 just didn't fit with the parody song :-P

Re:Heeeere I come

[heinousjay]

Yep, Apple actually has a chance again.

Re:Heeeere I come

[Goth Biker Babe]

Hey 3% of a market as big as the one its in is still a big slice. I basically see the difference between PCs and Macs as being like the different between a Ford car and say a Jaguar or Bentley. They are still just tin boxes going from (a) to (b) but the latter give a far more pleasurable experience and I'm happy to pay the premium.

Apple Innovates Again

[fat-latvian]

It's nice to see that instead of just implementing a typical 2-button mouse with Apple branding, they've actually improved the idea and made a better mouse in the process. Why doesn't this happen in the Windows world?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Nytewynd]

You must be kidding us. Apple adds scrolling and an extra button and you think they have innovated? My Logitech mouse at home still blows this one away. It is 11 button, with all of the same stuff and more (except the squeezing).

They made a different mouse, but hardly a better one.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why doesn't this happen in the Windows world?

Don't worry, it will now!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[It doesn't come easy]

Not sure it is an improvement. I would think that there will be very poor tactile feedback when it comes to clicking a virtual button...

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[rokzy]

maybe that's why it has audible feedback via a small speaker

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[flip-flop]

You're being sarcastic, right? Why the hell would anyone want to have an 11-button monster pointing device on their desk? More than a few buttons is just silly on a mouse IMHO and in this case "less is more" really does apply.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

11 button mouse? Wow I agree with that other guy. You ARE an idiot!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Why doesn't this happen in the Windows world?

Because Apple has to show them how to do it?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Golias]

When Apple had a single-button mouse, the Apple zealots claimed that the Mac UI was superior, and didn't need to succumb to a second or third mouse button. Such things are unneeded complications!

When Apple has a multi-button mouse, suddenly they should be praised as champions of innovation. Which is it?

Personally, I think non-Unix users are really missing out on the highlight-to-copy, middle-button-as-paste functionality. But that's me.

Hmmm... some problems with your post. Allow me to edit for accuracy.

When Apple had a single-button mouse, some Apple zealots claimed that the Mac UI was superior, and didn't need to succumb to a second or third mouse button. Such things are unneeded complications!

When Apple has a multi-button mouse, suddenly some other Apple zealots think they should be praised as champions of innovation. This is because not all users of a specific computer platform think exactly the same way. Some really liked the one-button mouse, but many didn't.

Personally, I think non-Unix users are really missing out on the absurd highlight-to-copy, middle-button-as-paste functionality. But that's just me and a handful of Linux zealots.

Much better.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Mr. Underbridge]

Horsecrap. Basically, your argument is whatever Apple does is exactly right, and more/less is wrong. This is the same crowd that up until TODAY said that more than one button would lead to widespread panic, confusion, and anarchy. Now two buttons plus a programmable surface and a cursor that looks like it was stolen from a Thinkpad is perfection.

Same rhetoric as it was for the x86 chips. x86 was terrible until Apple adopted it, right?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Reverend528]

I actually think this is a really bad idea from a usability standpoint. While it seems like a good idea for people to be able to change the number of mouse buttons, it's a terrible idea when you're using someone else's apple and they have it configured differently. Unlike mice that have obvious buttons and scroll wheels, this one looks the same no matter how its configured, so you can't know if right-clicking is enabled (or disabled) without sitting down and becoming frustrated with it.

It's about as innovative as a keyboard that has no letters, so that you can switch between standard and dvorak layouts.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[amliebsch]

Oh, to have mod points.

I am one of those holdouts who use 20-year-old buckling spring keyboards. I find good tactile feedback to be one of the most important - and most overlooked! - aspects of human-machine interface design. I'll tentatively withold judgement on the Apple mouse until I try it, but I am irritated by the trend to remove or minimize tactile feedback.

As to the other reply about the click sound...think about what you said. Sound. In what way is a sound tactile feedback? Maybe if they put a little force feedback device in there or something...but give me microswitches any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[richlv]

well, that's probably of little use to us, pesky earthlings with only five fingers per hand.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[mendaliv]

Oh I don't know about that, considering the DRM scare with x86 OSX, should we be putting it past Apple to limit this device to keep it from functioning on non-Apple computers?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[macthulhu]

11 Buttons? Are you sure it's not just a really shitty keyboard?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[HTH NE1]

Personally, I think non-Unix users are really missing out on the highlight-to-copy, middle-button-as-paste functionality. But that's me.

Maybe so for the middle-button-as-paste, but I could do without the Unix highlight-to-copy functionality. Click in another window without first making sure your mouse isn't moving at all it and suddenly your clipboard contents get replaced. Copy and paste becomes as precarious an act as carrying twenty banana cream pies. The UI should not require the user to give up caffeine.

And forget about pasting on top of highlighted text to replace that text.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[mwvdlee]

Agreeing wholeheartedly.

Two buttons and a wheel is all I ever use, this leaves the two additional side buttons and the wheel-button on my mouse wasted. That wheel-button can even get in the way, I'm thinking of just glueing that button stuck.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Elminst]

But who really wants their computer to beep EVERY time you click a mouse button.
It's frickin annoying!
It's like IE/windows explorer doing that stupid "click" sound every time you click/follow a link or folder or open a new page. One of the first things I disable on a new install.

I much prefer my mouse silently performing the functions it was designed for. Not serenading me on every click.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[el_womble]

I think we should take this one step further and just put an optical movement sensor on the bottom of the keyboard! Eat my 113 button mouse suckers!

(Yes I know this is a dumb idea, but at least you would have to take your hands off the keyboard ;) )

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[iotashan]

See, you miss the point. First off, this is not the Apple standard mouse that ships with all Macs. This is Apple (finally) addressing the need of non-consumer users. But, they did it in a way so that, if there's some basic consumer who follows the "if it costs more, it must be better" philosophy, they don't have to realize that they have a multi-button mouse.

Hey... the ball looks interesting too. I've always hated stuff getting stuck in my scrollwheel, and how after awhile the "clicks" of the wheel just wear out. I wonder if this fixes both issues.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Tony Hoyle]

It's a bit like the ipod... nice scrolly wheel thing but zero tactile feedback.

OTOH you get used to it... probably the reality distortion field kicking in.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you call it absurd if you've clearly never used it nor given it time to get used to it? It's damned convenient, let me tell you. Mac and Win people have to type command-C and command-V or click on contextual menus to copy and paste. X users can do it with a single mouse click. It's easier.

And why do you call me a Linux zealot? I use BSD and I have a Sun running Solaris on my desk.

Jesus Christ, you clueless slashdot people.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[jacksonj04]

Part of the reason I like macs for new computer users is you don't have 'left' or 'right' click. You just click, and the interface is designed to deal with this.

On the other hand, it's a very sexy mouse and I'm tempted to get one for my XP machine.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[p4ul13]

C'mon and listen to yourself. I'm a mac fan/user since the mac II, and I can honestly say that while it's cool that they've finally embraced the two button mouse (it is two buttons, even if they're hidden) this is hardly an innovation.

This is a way for them to add two button clicks for the x86 crowd without having to actually admit that sticking to a one button design for this long was silly.

My logitech mx500 has 8 or so buttons and I use them all. Granted some aren't used daily, but they're there when I want / need them.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[drmarcj]

Unlike mice that have obvious buttons and scroll wheels, this one looks the same no matter how its configured, so you can't know if right-clicking is enabled (or disabled) without sitting down and becoming frustrated with it.

I'm sorry, how is this different from someone on a PC who has remapped the various buttons to do specific things? Or a Mac user who has remapped their Dashboard key to CMD-F12? Remapping button and keyboard behaviour has been around forever, and has always been seen as a feature, not a bug.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Golias]

How can you call it absurd if you've clearly never used it nor given it time to get used to it?

What makes you think that? I've used *nix windows managers for years.

Mac's drag-and-drop and cut-and-paste methods are vastly superior, unless you are too stuck in your ways to see it.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Nytewynd]

I know I want 11 buttons for gaming, web surfing, and using applications. You know, all of the minor tasks that computers are good at.

Also, the buttons on my mouse are ergonomically placed and fit into my hand perfectly as opposed to a mouse that looks very non-ergonomic and doesn't provide any feedback for my actions. I have no idea what the resolution of this mouse is, but I highly doubt it is as precise as my current mouse.

Basically, I think I am saying that this is a niche mouse with less functionality that most of the other mice on the market. It looks pretty good, but I wouldn't want to use it for many normal tasks.

"Less is less" still applies. Just because you only need 1 button, doesn't mean the rest of us haven't evolved to the point where we can work more effectively with 11.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Same rhetoric as it was for the x86 chips. x86 was terrible until Apple adopted it, right?

No, they're still terrible. It's just that now they'll come in a stylish package.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[generic-man]

That's not tactile feedback. I wouldn't use a membrane keyboard that emitted "click" sounds any more than I'd use a mouse that did.

I'd like to give this a try in person, but if there are no real buttons (like my iPod 3G) then I'm not sold on it.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[stephenisu]

Microswitches? Bah, they give horrible feedback. I want leafspring switches like back in the good ol' arcade days. That way I have adjustable feedback....

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Golias]

See, there you go. Some people think one-button mice are spiffy, others like all kinds of extra buttons and scrollers and stuff.

One thing we can agree on is that it's incredibly cool that OS X accomodates us both seamlessly. Try plugging a one-button mouse into a Windows or KDE system and see what kind of day you have.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Reverend528]

yes, but apple has never been about customization. They're design goal is generally usability. Often the two goals conflict.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Taevin]

I have the same Logitech mouse and I have to say that it is a very good mouse. Perhaps it's not quite as "elegant" as the Apple one (for some), but it's still good looking and fits your hand well. To the others that are saying "omfgz wtf do you need 11 buttons for lol!!1", it's not as many as you might think. Left click, right click, 3 for scroll wheel (up, down, click), 3 right above the thumb groove, a button forward of the scroll wheel that by default scrolls up rapidly when pushed/held, one rear of the scroll wheel that does the same, and one just rear of that that switches programs. Thats a total of 11, all programmable, system wide or application specific (in Windows although I'm guessing you could do the same in Linux with imwheel or xmodmap or something). By the same standards, the new Apple mouse has 8: Left click, right click, left side button, right side button, and 4 for the ball (at least).

So maybe you don't need all those buttons but it's not like they are in the way. They are still very useful to have to map things to (just like Apple is touting).

OH I get it, you're just Mac/Apple fanatics. When Logitech does it, it's a big monstrosity. When Apple does it, it's sleak, elegant, and advanced.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[iPod is UNIX]

I learned early on never to take advice from an Apple user, they just make arguments for Apples current product line adjusting them as Apple changes directions. I'm going to present some of the most mindbaffling arguments from the Apple community that you may check with other sources and find out they are pretty much right on.

Apple products and Apple users arguments:

• The Newton, try to convince the Apple user this never was a very good PDA and by todays standard is totaly "out there", 8" x 5" x 1" inches and about a pound without batteries, for reference a palm is about 5" x 3" x 0.3" and about 0.3 pounds. The newton is still by many Apple users the PDA to have. Now ask the same Apple user why the iPod is much better then a Creative Zen. The Zen is to heavy, by 0.1 pounds.
• The time around 2000 when Apple users where still making arguments for cooperative multitasking which to the rest of the industry was pathetic and laughable. As Mac OS late but surely got preemptive multitasking by copying it from FreeBSD the Apple users finaly could lay the cooperative multitasking argument to rest. Not because preemptive was better (which it of course are) but because they had it too.
• The early stages of OS X (which really where an open beta), slow kernel, slow UI and not even easy to use. To the Apple users was of course the best thing. In reality it was so bad Apple don't even offer security patches for those machines even though they are just a few years old.
• The G4 cube. A bastardised computer, impossible to use. You needed to stand up to load a cd in the tray (top loaded). You had to turn the computer upside down to connect peripherals (all connectors was at the bottom of the case?!?). It had heat troubles taking down most of them. Of course by the Apple user touted as a marvelous piece of equipment and even today by many Apple users seen as the height of Apple design and innovation.
• The Mac Mini, we haven't seen the last of this yet I'm afraid. Of course by the Mac users seen as the future of Macs. Reality: Apple are in 2005 selling computers with 1.25ghz CPU and 4200RPM drive for $499, this excludes keyboard mouse and monitor and includes not even enough RAM to run the included operating system. If you could buy a similar spec PC (which you can't because there are no that slow) you would get at least keyboard, mouse and monitor. It will probably not take long before a hoard of not very happy Mac mini users put these to rest when they find out you can't even run todays software reasonably on a new computer, and tommorows will be next to impossible. The argument from the Mac crowd is that if you buy a Mac mini to play games you are stupid. Is there any other software for the Mac mini I must be stupid to try running?
• Unix, first let me explain that OS X is not a certified Unix. Unix is a trademark hold by Open Group and Apple is using the trademark without permission. Certified Unixes includes Solaris, True 64 HP-UX and other Big leage names. To an Apple user Unix has always been something weird and strange and generaly bad, the usual "not invented by Apple syndrome". Now the Apple user tells you he has a Unix too and Unix by now is the greatest thing thing sliced bread. A real life story was the Apple user who told me "All modern science is based on Unix", that tells you how much the typical Mac user knows what is under the hood of their computer. They tell you Apple is the largest supplier of Unix world wide. Of course OS X doesn't even remotely classifies as Unix and recent test has shown it is at least 10 times slower then Solaris on simple database serving. This of course gives Unix a bad reputation so you can imagine Open Group being more than upset (they have of course sued Apple over infringement). Real Unixes also has 8-10 ye

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Can your 11-button mouse be used by south-paws? If so, then you may have a point. If not, then, well...

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[TheLink]

Macs still aren't that great for new users as long as "double clicking" is important.

Clicking is easy. Click and hold is ok for most people. drag and drop is a tad harder.

But double clicking is just difficult for new users.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[badfish99]

If you want *real* feedback, nothing beats the old ASR 33 teletype.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[delire]

..they've actually improved the idea and made a better mouse in the process.

You've tried it have you?

Yours,

Tinkerbell.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[SComps]

whoa! that's bordering on being considered a keyboard.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Thu25245]

Unlike mice that have obvious buttons and scroll wheels, this one looks the same no matter how its configured, so you can't know if right-clicking is enabled (or disabled) without sitting down and becoming frustrated with it.

I take it you've never noticed that the Control Panel under Windows also allows you to swap buttons? And you've never used any of the dozen other multi-button scroll mice with custom-config software?

Or do you know of some other mouse that looks different when configured differently?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[KillerDeathRobot]

Basically, I think I am saying that this is a niche mouse with less functionality that most of the other mice on the market.

Most other mice have fewer buttons and a scroll wheel that only goes up and down. How is that more functionality that this new Mighty Mouse?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[consequentemente]

That's only one key short of being a Hawaiian-language compatible keyboard!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[HTH NE1]

That's not tactile feedback.

I haven't had the experience of using one yet, but the speaker vibrations may indeed be carried tactilely by the shell. An enterprising hardware modder may decide to make it have more bass.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Reverend528]

In my entire life, I've never met any windows user who felt compelled to switch the mouse buttons. There's not really a practical reason to do this. I can assure you now, there will be apple users who purchase this mouse and configure it for a single button and it will piss off everyone else who has to use their computer.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Pxtl]

heh, my dad tried to give me one of those because I told him I didn't want a newer keyboard cluttered with uncecessary web buttons and a win-key (play a lot of games on ctrl and alt, win-key makes a mess). While the tactile feedback of those old things is nice, the keyboard is deafeningly loud.

Personally, I'm fine with minimal feedback, and would love the fact that this mouse seems to be quiet. I want one.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[pdehn]

PPC was better at first - but over time, x86 processors were getting better (speed, power usage, etc)...faster than PPC was, and now x86 has the best processors, a trend likely to continue. There's a reason they chose PPC back then, and there's a reason they're switching to x86 now. Regardless, I personally could really care less what processor they use so long as the final product does what I want it to.

The new mouse is hardly perfection (I seriously doubt the 'perfect' input device would be any sort of mouse). But to the users that want a mouse (from Apple specifically, for whatever reason) with more functionality than a single button, it is quite a bit better. The people that are praising this thing now are the people that have been begging for Apple to make something more than a one button mouse for awhile now...I would recommend people cut back on the praise until they've actually tried it though.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

If it works like the current no-button mouse, you WILL have tactile feedback for a click, the whole front of the mouse tips down and clicks when pressed. The innovation (such as it is) is that the mouse can tell whether you're emphasizing the left or right side of the mouse, giving it two-button function without two buttons.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Tom]

If you don't want to move the hands between mouse and the keyboard, maybe the Touchstream Keyboard would've been useful for you. Unfortunately, they've gone out of business. What a shame. I own one, and it's a freaking cool idea even if I never quite got around to making it my primary keyboard.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[fitten]

I agree with you. This is also compounded by the multiple clipboards. Depending on what you are doing, you may have to use one or the other. Control-C works sometimes, Control-V works sometimes, sometimes you have to do it all from menus, sometimes you can do it with your mouse.Cut-n-paste in XWindows has always been pretty much junk and I've been using X since the mid-80s.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[fitten]

I think the title of your post should have been "Steve sets up a new Koolaid stand".

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Gorbag]

The product description page specifically says that it is PC compatible, you just need a USB 1.1 (or 2.0) port.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[AyeRoxor!]

No, he's right. It's not innovative just because they use what is basically touchpad technology from 1990 to conceal the fact that they're conceding that two buttons are better than one. And to use a mini-trackball instead of something optical? Lame. Moving parts = bad.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[tgibbs]

I actually think this is a really bad idea from a usability standpoint. While it seems like a good idea for people to be able to change the number of mouse buttons, it's a terrible idea when you're using someone else's apple and they have it configured differently.

I am sure that the configuration can be set up differently for different user.

It's about as innovative as a keyboard that has no letters, so that you can switch between standard and dvorak layouts.

Such a keyboard has recently been announced, that has a small display on each key, so that it is fully configurable.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Gorbag]

When you sit down at someone else's computer, presumably you have an account on it, and options such as number of buttons would have been configured by you for your account. If you are using someone else's account, how do you know they haven't aliased "ls" to something wicked? Never make assumptions when playing within someone else's account. Keyboards can be remapped, why not mice?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[amliebsch]

While the tactile feedback of those old things is nice, the keyboard is deafeningly loud.

Yeah, they're loud. BFD, I say. Type hard or go home. I type loudly either way, anyways. I like to play my computer keyboard like a piano, and when I'm enthusiastic about what I'm typing (e.g., "make install [ENTER]", or "./rc.httpd restart [ENTER]"), I pound that sucker like I'm hammering out the final chords of a Tchaikovsky piano concerto.

Personally, I'm fine with minimal feedback, and would love the fact that this mouse seems to be quiet. I want one.

Then the MM seems like the worst of both worlds. Minimal tactile feedback, but with a speaker to make additional noise!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[sickofthisshit]

Never met anyone left-handed?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[orasio]

(Yes I know this is a dumb idea, but at least you would have to take your hands off the keyboard ;) )


Or you could use a glass table and use the movement sensor to track your... feet?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[arminw]

....I would think that there will be very poor tactile feedback....

Most of the millions of ipod users have no problem with how the touch buttons thereon work. You can hear a little click, which can also be turned off. The new mouse uses that same technology. Having fewer or no moving parts generally improves reliability. How wonderfully maintenance and trouble free are the now commonplace optical mice compared to the rolling ball designs. All mice I have ever used emit a faint click from their mechanical switch when the button(s) are pressed.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Khyber]

Actually, I'm going to go one step further. Forget the optical sensor, go with gyroscopics. Then in stuff like driving games or FPS games, you could just tilt or turn or swivel the keyboard for driving/aiming/etc. and have a blast. You might need to redo some things (like put programmable keys on the underside of the keyboard for the games) but it could be possible...

Of course the question would be whether or not anyone wants a massive joystick in their hands....

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

While you have some interesting points, your commentary could do with some serious grammar and spelling improvements. There's also nothing quite like eventually bringing it back to the topic at hand (the new "mighty mouse"). I'd suggest avoiding the overuse of bold face as well; once or twice can make a point, but you've used it enough to only distract from your message. But ultimately, your apparent distaste for all users of Apple products makes your own post read much like the diatribes you say disgust you. I guess you become the thing you hate most...

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[hector_uk]

It's about as innovative as a keyboard that has no letters, so that you can switch between standard and dvorak layouts. yeah it is, take a look at this http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

All modern applications follow the freedesktop.org guidelines for sane clipboard behaviour in X11. Unless you're actually running something from the mid-80s, Linux clipboards work just like Mac/Windows ones, PLUS an _independent_ highlight/middle-click mechanism (i.e. stuff you CTRL-X is pasted with CTRL-V, stuff you highlight may be pasted with middle-click, but stuff you highlight is never pasted with CTRL-V unless you've CTRL-Xed (or Ced, obviously) it).

Applications that don't work that way (hello emacs) are more or less broken and you shouldn't feel guilty about reporting it as a bug.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Fahrenheit 450]

Actually, they were acquired. Rumor has it that they were bought up by Apple ... and it seems as if the touch sensitive tech this mouse is built on is a basic use of the Fingerworks tech...

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[thatguywhoiam]

Horsecrap. Basically, your argument is whatever Apple does is exactly right, and more/less is wrong. This is the same crowd that up until TODAY said that more than one button would lead to widespread panic, confusion, and anarchy. Now two buttons plus a programmable surface and a cursor that looks like it was stolen from a Thinkpad is perfection.

Yo do realize that is IS a one-button mouse as it ships, yes? Users can add the other functionality when they discover it on their own. Until then it acts just like the old mouse.

So no, not right.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[pocomoonshiine]

OS X has user accounts just like Windows. Your settings, aka preferences, are your own. Of course they could add fingerprint ID sensors to this mouse without anybody noticing... Maybe they already DID!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like this 11 button mouse is more of a niche mouse than apple's new mouse. I don't know how I could ever use 11 buttons on a mouse.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Jord]

From Apple's Website:

Up to four programmable buttons: full-body button with touch-sensitive technology beneath for left-, right- and Scroll Ball clicking. Force-sensing side buttons.

It has plenty of tactile feedback. The full mouse is a single physical button just like their other current mice. The difference on this one is that it can tell where on the body of the mouse you are clicking and respond appropriately. Speaking as an owner of several of Apple's single button "pro" mice (both corded and bluetooth), the tactile feedback is excellent.

Does anyone really believe that they would put a speaker in the mouse? I have heard plenty of crap on /. in my day but come on...

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[sirkarmabad]

I think that it is goooood fur me and me doggy...

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

oooh! can an enterprising hardware modder somehow make it make fart noises when i click?

now that would be awesome. thanks.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[renderhead]

The apple mouse seems to only have 7 buttons - the left and right side buttons constitute a single "squeeze" button. Not arguing with the point of your post, I just don't want anyone to be misinformed.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Reverend528]

Maybe they already DID!

Yet another brilliant innovation from apple!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Tony Hoyle]

I'm left handed and so are a lot of other people I know.

None of us have switched our mouse buttons around.

The idea that it's somehow for left handed people is a complete myth. Why would I want to left click using the right button?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Zweideutig]

If you have hand tremors, a precise mouse is horrible. It pisses me off when the mouse cursor is shaking, so I have to keep my hand off the mouse, even with my less precise wheel mouse.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[EnglishTim]

Why doesn't this happen in the Windows world?

Where do you think the first scroll wheels appeared?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Zweideutig]

Non-UNIX users? You mean non-X Window users. I use Linux on the desktop, and *BSD on the server, both are not approved to use the UNIX trademark, but they will run X Window and provide the highlight to copy, middle button (or left+right click emulation.) Educate yourself before posting again.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[default luser]

Try plugging a one-button mouse into a Windows or KDE system and see what kind of day you have.

Not true for Windows. You can accomplish anything in Windows using the single mouse button...you just can't do them as fast as many power users would like.

Single biggest false complaint I've heard concerning Right-Click in Windows: you cannot edit the Start Menu or Desktop without it.

Yes, you can edit the Start Menu and Desktop with a single mouse button, and it's even slightly intuitive: To add files / shortcuts, drag them over the start button and hold for one second (it opens up without a click). Do the same to open submenus, and drop the file where you want. To remove a file from the Start Menu or the Desktop, drag it to the convenient Recycle Bin right there.

Yes, these are by-far much easier to accomplish with the right-click context menu, and keys like delete. But for those who know there's a faster way, well, you're already a power user, and you have no base for complaints.

Oh yeah, you know that little key next to the right Control key? The CONTEXT MENU BUTTON? When you click (or release) the button, it will have the same effect as a right-click. No different from Apple users doing the Control-click. Even if you were to find a rare case where a function is impossible without a right mouse button, you could always use that.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[anagama]

Adding a speaker seems like an awful lot of work and expense to emulate the good feeling of a nice button. Good switches are a true pleasure -- like the solid thwack of a quality toggle switch, or the subtle tick of a nicely balanced mouse button. Plus, that tiny ball looks like a real nice CTS enhancer.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[line.at.infinity]

Instead of optical on the bottom, make the entire surface of the keyboard a seamless touch-sensitive top shell with LCD built in to boot.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[PureCreditor]

or try a 3-key Win95 keyboard :
  _____
| |
| Del |
|_____|
| |
| Alt |
|_____|
| |
| Ctrl|
|_____|

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[rikkards]

Do you think that your sig may have something to do with the tremors? :)

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[anagama]

Maybe so for the middle-button-as-paste, but I could do without the Unix highlight-to-copy functionality. Click in another window without first making sure your mouse isn't moving at all it and suddenly your clipboard contents get replaced.

I love highlight copy. Couple that with ctrl-c/v and I have two buffers to play with which is often quite convenient. I will admit that it blows when you loose the highlight buffer accidentally, but the speed savings you get with practice more than make up for the occaisional accidental highlight.

In all honesty, there are two things about OSX that drive me crazy -- no universal middle click paste, and the idiotic keyboard task switching behavior. If Apple could get it's act together in these respects, I could really embrace it's OS. As it is, I have my powerbook and it's nice, but I won't be replacing my desktops till Apple catches up with the linux world.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Paradox]

lso, the buttons on my mouse are ergonomically placed and fit into my hand perfectly as opposed to a mouse that looks very non-ergonomic and doesn't provide any feedback for my actions. I have no idea what the resolution of this mouse is, but I highly doubt it is as precise as my current mouse.

The hockey puck mice were a nightmare. The current mouse design (which is slightly enlarged in this product, according to the tech specs dimensions) is surprisingly comfortable. I suppose they also can reduce strain by requiring almost no force to actuate the top buttons.

And regarding feedback, from Apple's Page:

The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects.

Rtfa, man.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Shaklee39]

Oh I get it!!!! Windows crashes a lot so we only need 3 keys to reboot it! HAHAHA

Dumbass.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

11 Buttons? Are you sure it's not just a really shitty keyboard?

If someone creates some chord input device type software, then it could indeed do away with the keyboard.

That said, calling it a "shitty keyboard" probably wouldn't catch on (and thats also the reason you don't work in Apple marketing). Think "iShit -- The New Way To Type"! No?! Okay. :-D

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[cl0secall]

That seems vastly overcomplicated but might explain why I could never get text from Xterm to paste into Firefox from a VNC session.

This is why I'm glad I don't have to use X as a desktop for actual work.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[macthulhu]

Shtop making fun of me. I have a shpeech impediment....

Ironically, I actually do work in marketing... Not for Apple, but for a very large Death Star-like company.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Fenris Ulf]

Does anyone really believe that they would put a speaker in the mouse? I have heard plenty of crap on /. in my day but come on...

RTFP:

Mighty Mouse even sounds as good as it feels. The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[mranchovy]

I've worked with left-handed people who have switched their mouse buttons. For me, it's very awkward trying to use their mouse, but it seems to work for them. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean there aren't people who do.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I don't mean X-Windows (which is not the proper name, please see man X* and don't forget to educate yourself), as I can go to console and find the same behavior.

As for your Unix trademark pedantry: yes I am well aware of this fact and I used to spew it with obnoxious pedantry just as you but these days I don't care. If it quacks like a duck, and so on. BSDs was Unix-derived. I use Solaris and others too. Couple this with the obvious how you might say "similarities" in system call and library interfaces, not to mention source compatibility and near-identical program behavior, and for the purposes of discussion, it might as well be Unix, at least colloquially speaking. This colloquial usage of the word "Unix" is quite common, in case you hadn't noticed, and will not die out no matter how many times you point out it's a trade mark. Kind of like Kleenex. So get used to it, pal, and don't go around calling people uneducated; it's quite possible they've heard your arguments before. After all, you don't have a monopoly on minutia.

*From the manpage of X(7):

The X Consortium requests that the following names be used when referring to this software:
X
X Window System
X Version 11
X Window System, Version 11
X11

This was put into the manpage to stop people from calling it X-Windows as you have so done. So there.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[hobbit]

It's damned inconvenient for certain operations: you can't replace some selected text with the contents of the clipboard, because as soon as you select some text, the contents of the clipboard are replaced.

You make exactly the same mistake as the poster you reply to -- thinking that your way is the One True Way. In truth, both mechanisms have their advantages; personally, having used both extensively, I prefer the Cmd/Ctrl-C/V method overall.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Exposé works brilliantly mapped to the side buttons. I was a confirmed one-buttoner until Exposé was launched, now I use a disgusting MS Intellimouse Optical (shuddering, creaking piece of shit that it is) just so I can have 'show all windows' on the left side button and 'show desktop' on the right side button.

Looks like someone at Apple's been doing the same...

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[arose]

Get a trackball.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[eyeye]

The thing on top looks like it is effectively a trackball, however it cant be as it would grind to a halt within a couple of days after being filled with human skin crud that accumulates.

The side buttons are just buttons, whats this "squeeze" bollocks, look they are obviously just buttons!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[WatertonMan]

Which is very unfortunate. I was very excited until I read that. I have Expose all windows and Expose application's windows to the left and right extra buttons on my Intellimouse. It's very useful - especially while programming. I really wish I had an extra one for Dashboard as well. With Apple's mouse you only get one extra button for Expose or Dashboard. Not too good in my opinion.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[flowerysong]

BSD rarely causes tremors, unless you're trying to clean a directory and realise that you just typed 'rm -rf /' as root. (This also happens under Linux/Minix/Solaris/AIX).

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[tgibbs]

See, you miss the point. First off, this is not the Apple standard mouse that ships with all Macs.

I'll bet that it will be before long. The system will wake up in one-button mode, providing the beginner-friendly user interface that made Apple famous. And as users become more sophisticated, they can turn on the additional "buttons."

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

This was put into the manpage to stop people from calling it X-Windows as you have so done. So there.

No, that was put in the man page to stop Microsoft from suing them, because everybody was going around calling it X-Windows and still does. Making it a "not officially approved" name was strictly a CYA move.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

You shouldn't use speech recognition then...

And Apple is a Death Star like company.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[orgelspieler]

Great idea for organists!

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[acvh]

an 11 button mouse is not a mouse, it's a keyboard.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[sickofthisshit]

Do you mouse with your left hand? Wouldn't you prefer to primary ("left-") click with your index finger?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

I seriously doubt that the mouse actually "beep"s when you click it -- it's probably just a small, subtle "click" sound, very much like the audible feedback that the iPod gives you when you're using the scroll wheel to skim down a long menu.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[arose]

You can replace with exatly the same amount of operations: select-paste-select-delete instead of select-copy-select-paste. It isn't perfect however, that's why modern toolkits allow you to drag-and-drop and use Ctrl-X/C/V operations in addition to the standard X copy and paste functionality.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Atzanteol]

A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects.

This is just stupid... It's all about *tactile* feedback, not audio feedback. Christ, half the time I'm using my computer I have music playing (with earphones most of the time too). What good does audio feedback give?

This is some weird trend I've noticed at Apple beginning with the iPod. Buttons that don't click, scroll wheels that don't scroll. It's obnoxious.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[flip-flop]

Stop sounding like an idiot and jumping to conclusions. I don't even own a Mac. But the OP's assertion that an "11 button" mouse is somehow more ergonomical than one with a few buttons is simply not true. And I don't care who makes this supposedly more ergonomical mouse, but this thread is about *Apple*'s new mouse, is it not?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[orgelspieler]

actually, the latest Powerbooks have this capability. There are already a few apps that use this "input device" for things like moving a ball or triggering an alarm. I'm not sure that it would be much good as a pointing device, but it might be fun to try.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[pboulang]

The innovation isn't in the number of buttons. It's the ability to not confuse the hell out of users in West Virginia. It satifies both grandma and power users by not throwing 7 buttons at them unless they want it.

I have never found the "quick scroll" buttons useful in the least.. On a keyboard I use pgup/pgdn which I assume these map to logically, yet I prefer to wheel down so I can put the last line as the first line and read a pagefull. I am constantly pressing the nav forward / back buttons with my thumb on mice that have them (and thus try to avoid these mice).

I certainly don't understand mapping buttons to applications. I think that really makes moving from machine to machine harder. Remember when you first went from a mouse with a scroll wheel back to a mouse without one? That was really frustrating. I think with the new Apple mouse, just be glad you can get a second button and they will be prevalent going forward. Is it the best mouse? Probably not. Is it a monstrosity... not like the Logitech ;)

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[mrchaotica]

I think you want one of these.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[imsoclever]

I read your post. Then I read your sig. Then I lauged.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[jackbird]

That said, calling it a "shitty keyboard" probably wouldn't catch on

Belkin realized this, so they named it after a doomed, alien-infested spaceship instead.

(I own one, and I want to love it, but...)

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[WatertonMan]

Actually I take that back. Apparently the little nib in the middle of the scrollbar can be a button. So you have four. But most people will probably have that mapped to being equivalent to clicking the scroll wheel. In Safari for instance that opens a new tab on the link you click on. Apple also doesn't allow per application settings which would be more important with the fewer buttons than say an Intellimouse. The new Intellimouse has a tilt ability to the scroll wheel. I don't know how ergonomic that is but it means the Apple mouse has fewer abilities than most other mice.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[HrothgarReborn]

Dude, its a two handed mouse. (Don't ask how to hit button 11 ;)

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

>> actually, the latest Powerbooks have this capability. There are already a few apps that use this "input device"
>> for things like moving a ball or triggering an alarm. I'm not sure that it would be much good as a pointing
>> device, but it might be fun to try.

I thought it would be fun to stick a webcam on the back of the display, make that video image the "background" and superimpose a virtual 3D environment on top of it - kind of like VR goggles, but instead using the laptop as a "window" into a virtual world in your room! :)

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[thomas.galvin]

Same rhetoric as it was for the x86 chips. x86 was terrible until Apple adopted it, right?

Darn skippy. And, for your information, we have always been at war with Eurasia. :-p

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Or a 4 key keyboard for morons:

+---+---+---+---+
l S l T l F l U l
+---+---+---+---+

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Zweideutig]

I never called it X-Windows. I called it X Window, short for X Window System.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

I am constantly pressing the nav forward / back buttons with my thumb on mice that have them (and thus try to avoid these mice).

Perhaps you should lose some weight?

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[sharpestmarble]

Real programmers have 16 fingers.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course the question would be whether or not anyone wants a massive joystick in their hands....

people like xbox controllers dont they

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[hobbit]

You can replace with exatly the same amount of operations: select-paste-select-delete instead of select-copy-select-paste.

But there's no replacement for select-copy-select-paste-select-paste.

I'm all for freedom of choice but I just can't see why people prefer the X11 method.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[arose]

As I clearly said I prefer it for some copying, it's nice that they coexist.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[ciroknight]

Nope, x86 is still terrible, but they're simply a lot faster and run a lot cooler than any of the other options at this point in time. If IBM wasn't such a fuck-up, or if Freescale wanted to build a strong corporate relationship with someone, we'd be seeing a lot faster Macs with PowerPC processors in the future instead of Intel. But, when you've made a promise and fall back on it because someone you were depending on failed to uphold their end of the bargain, that's the cost of business.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Kamiza Ikioi]

Actually, that's probably one of the smartest things I've heard of yet (except the gyroscope suggestion might work better).

*Paper Weight Completely Split Keyboard (one half on each hand)
*Gyroscope enabled mouse movements.
*Couple extra rows of "center keys" for clicking (with either hand, of course).
*Mounted those bad boys on arm braces
*Throw in a HUD for kicks.

Hmmm.... Nah, I might as well be asking for a inner leg deployable sidearm, and dress up like Robocop.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[Anonymous Coward]

The touch sensitive mouse is built on iPod scroll wheel tech. If they acquired Fingerworks before they released the iPod, and used their design for the scroll wheel, then you may be right.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[biglig2]

Well, what you need to do is look at it from a Mac users perspective. To them, right-click is an optional extra.

So the thing has to work exactly like a normal one-button mouse, if they hope to ship it with machines (which I think they do).

Note that a Mac Users perception of normal is very different from a Windows users, or indeed a Unix users.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[vinohradska]

Death Star-like company? Do tell. Give us some insider gossip. Enquiring minds want to know.

Re:Apple Innovates Again

[nahdude812]

Someone needs to correct the misrepresentations in your post; as of this morning, we have always been at war with East Asia.

Welcome to 1986

[ChrisF79]

It's great that Apple finally came to their senses and created this mouse, but what I thought was really interesting is the fact that they allow you to still program it to use as a one button mouse. They're really holding onto their beliefs that people can only handle one button at a time with this thing. But, if they believe that people want the simplicity of a one button mouse, wouldn't they ship this thing out of the box with only one button functioning? Those people that want the simplicity of a one button mouse surely won't be the ones changing the settings to disable the other buttons. After all, that sounds awfully hard to do!

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that this mouse does not currently ship with new computers--it has to be purchased separately.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[rokzy]

I don't think Apple ever believed people "can only handle one button at a time", just that most of the time a second button was a product of poor interface design and not a product of necessity. and they're right.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[angrist]

It's not so much a belief that people can only handle one button at a time. It's more of a belief that the operating system and applications should be able to function with only one mouse button. That design 'requirement' really helps to keep interfaces simple and intuitive.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Daniel_Staal]

Apple is perfectly aware that intelegent users can handle more than one button at a time. They just don't believe that the average developer can handle more than one button at a time. At least, not and keep a good interface.

So, they force the delevopers to think 'Oh, shit: this is a Mac, the user only has one button!', and then they actually think about what goes on the second.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Golias]

But, if they believe that people want the simplicity of a one button mouse, wouldn't they ship this thing out of the box with only one button functioning? Those people that want the simplicity of a one button mouse surely won't be the ones changing the settings to disable the other buttons. After all, that sounds awfully hard to do!

If I'm a dad with young children, I might want to set up the mouse preferences differently depending on the user. Full-functions for me and the older kids, one-button for the toddlers and grandparents. It's actually a pretty fucking cool idea.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[hattig]

I don't remember seeing mice in 1986 with 4 buttons and what is essentially a trackball integrated.

It is good that the computer can be used with just one mouse button, you might think 'oh, two, three buttons, what's the issue?' but people out there aren't that savvy.

This can act as a one button mouse, it can act as a multibutton mouse.

But why isn't it wireless?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Goth Biker Babe]

1986? Ye gads you were late with your technology. I had a three button mouse on my 8 bit micro in 1984. I also had one on my Sun at Uni.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[roboconnell]

no shit its cool - only apple could take the mouse and breathe life into it. I can't believe the nay-sayers here - the benefits are obvious - they can ship a single product that satifies 1 button 2 button and n button people! Beautiful - and no more clicking - I'm ordering 1 (or maybe 2 or maybe n) right now!

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Xrikcus]

All it ever really did though was shift the burden from a second mouse button onto the keyboard instead, hardly an improvement really...

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Minwee]

That's exactly what I have been doing with XP for years. When I log in every button on my mouse has a different function -- left click, right click, middle click, escape, shift... I think one button will even make me coffee.

When my son signs on every button is set to do the same thing -- left click. Anything else just makes for a confusing mess.

It's like magic, but it didn't take Apple to do it.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Golias]

You make your son run XP without being able to right-click!?

That's just sick and cruel. Somebody call the CPA.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

And it's only $30 more than the equivalent logitech mouse.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Golias]

Personally, I'm going to pass until they come out with a bluetooth version of it. I've grown to detest mouse cables.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

What method are you using to do this under XP? I've wanted to do the same thing under 2K but didn't find anything. Unfortunately searching Google is difficult because 'mouse', '1 button', etc are pretty common terms so it's hard to find the needle in the haystack.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[laird]

"All it ever really did though was shift the burden from a second mouse button onto the keyboard instead, hardly an improvement really..."

I think that this actually made a large, though subtle, difference. Since the standard mouse has one button, developers have to make their software work with one button and use any additional buttons, if present, as "accellerators". The end result is that Mac software is easier to "explore" because all application functions are in the main menu structure, not just hidden in a contextual menu somewhere.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[ookaze]

I found this mouse impressive too.
But at the same time, I would not put toddlers, and surely not my children, to use this mouse.
This is a very bad tool for learning. IMHO this mouse is for people that already know how to use a mouse.
No feedback on your fingers is not a good thing when you are not experienced.
It is exhausting to constantly check the sound of the click.
Well, this mouse reminds me of a touchpad applied on a mouse, and so, I think it will cause less exhaustion than using a touchpad, but more than using a "normal" mouse.
That's the only mouse I would shell 45$ for though. Of course, it has to work in Linux first.
Things like that makes me want to buy a Mac, even if my Linux works perfectly well for all the family.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[guacamole]

Nonsense, most Mac applications I have used ALREADY make an extensive use of context menus, just like their Windows counterparts do and I find myself using them all the time. I am tired of being forced to reach the hideous keyboard just because I want to "save link as.." or "copy link location" in firefox, for example. I think context menus are a good thing but Apple made them so hideous on MacOS by denying users a second mouse button.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[roboconnell]

Yes - but that's ugly looking! I want hardware in my house that a) works right b) looks good. That's why up until now I have used a logitech 3 button mouse on my mac. It worked great but looks like crap. This apple mouse will look good in any configuration. I was not trying to suggest that the innovation is being able to reconfigure a mouse button.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[gnasher719]

"No feedback on your fingers is not a good thing when you are not experienced.
It is exhausting to constantly check the sound of the click."

You have never tried the Apple zero button mouse, have you? People may be shocked initially to see no button, then you tell them "just use it!" and they use it. There is feedback. You don't know _how_ you pressed it (unless you very consciously observe what is happening), however you know _that_ you pressed it, you _know_ when you are holding it down, you _know_ when you release it.

I have never seen anybody who had the slightest problem using it. To those who think it is not intuitive: It is. Just put your hand on the mouse and use it.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

"Tired of being forced"? Um, you do know how to plug in a two-button mouse, right? It's not like you can't buy a mouse from anyone but Apple...

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the reason they cling to the 1-button thing so long, apart from NIH, is stated right on their front page

"Single button looks, multibutton charm."

Basically, they've as much as admitted that multibutton mice are better, but the single button looks nicer. So what they've done this time is to create something that acts like it has separate left and right buttons, but has no visual clues that it acts differently. In other words, style over substance. If you do not see any advantages of "single button looks", you're not in Apple's target demographic.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[HTH NE1]

Note that this mouse does not currently ship with new computers

And I suspect it won't until the new Intel machines ship. It's designed to appeal to Windows switchers who will want to dual-boot Mac OS X with Windows XP or Vista on Apple's new hardware and not be stuck with a mouse that cripples their Windows experience.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Agave]

Have you ever sat with an older person (65+) who has never used a computer before and tried to walk them through a GUI? Between left and right mouse buttons and single and double clicking it's a nightmare. Enjoy this tidbit from my grandfather:

I bought this TravelDrive for my sister and want to put some songs on it for her.
        No problem. Just stick it in the USB port and it'll show up as a regular drive. Then you can drag files to it to copy.
Ok... can you help me?
        Sure. [knowing the best way to learn is by doing something for yourself, I let him drive his iBook while I sit next to him]
Ok, where's my music?
        Bring up a Finder window and click on the Musi c folder.
[blank stare]
        Remember the Finder is the happy mac face on the bottom of the screen.
Oh, right. [double clicks on Finder icon in Dock]
        Ok, now click on your Music folder.
Double click?
        No, just click it once.
So how do I find my music?
        Well, since you have so many songs, it might be easiest to use the column view. Click on this icon that looks like three little columns.
Double click?
        No, just single click.
[double clicks the button anyways]

We went on to copy the songs during which I tried (and failed) to teach him how to drag multiple items ( shift-click? ). Took him longer but I was able to go back to the living room and sit with my grandmother and aunt while he filled up the drive with a medley of oldies, irish, and country songs.

My point is that between single, double, left, right and key-modified clicking a casual user does get confused. They didn't shift the burden, they -removed- it... the casual user doesn't even know about ctrl-click and doesn't care.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Minwee]

That's using Logitech Mouseware. It keeps separate profiles for each user and has some support for non-Logitech devices, but they are mostly treated as standard two button mice.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Lepton68]

So BUY it. Plug it in. It will work just fine. No drivers, no hassle, it will just work, and always has on OSX. Have fun!

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically, they've as much as admitted that multibutton mice are better, but the single button looks nicer.

Yeah, because we all know that marketing slogans are prefect reflections of product engineering...

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Daniel_Staal]

Did I say that anyone prevented you from using the second button? The point is to make the developer think about what goes on it, and why. You just descriped a case in point: Firefox is designed with the assumption of a context menu, so it has some actions that can only (well, quibble*, but...) be done through a context menu. This is wrong. All actions should be possible without the context menu. The purpose of the context menu is to give you quick access to likely actions.

*(Actually, the list of things that can only be done through a context menu in Firefox is much shorter than it appears. Some of the actions just take more steps without it. Both of your examples for instance can be converted to a two-step process that doesn't use a context menu.)

Re:Welcome to 1986

[DrXym]

I think this is a very weak argument. No one with more than a few days of computer experience has the slightest trouble with multi-button mice. And since that covers just about everyone, the rationale for shipping with such a device is non-existent.

Shipping with a single button mouse might benefit absolute novices, but they're virtually useless for intermediate or expert users. Inflicting them on everyone by default makes no sense at all.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Jord]

Not sure where everyone is getting this "no feedback" from. According to Apple's website:

Touch-sensitive technology under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where you're clicking

This means that it has the same click that the one button Apple mice have but it can tell where on the mouse you are pressing and react accordingly. Although no one has used one of these yet I am willing to bet that it will click exactly the same as my one button Apple bluetooth mouse.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[hackstraw]

Apple is perfectly aware that intelegent users can handle more than one button at a time. They just don't believe that the average developer can handle more than one button at a time. At least, not and keep a good interface.

I was one of those people that dinged Apple for years for the one button mouse. But, the angle from the developer point of view, and another thing that I learned is that a Mac with a touchscreen works as advertised. Its kinda difficult to right click with one finger on the screen.

For those that don't know, control+click is the equivalent of right click. Also, for something like the past 10 years or so, if you buy a multi-button mouse, the right button can be mapped to control+click, and you are in business. I have a 3 button/scroll wheel for my PowerBook. I have a bluetooth one button wonder for my iMac at home. I almost immediately bought a multi-button bluetooth mouse, but I realized that there are many click combinations that still require a hand on the keyboard. Apple or command click, shift click, control click are frequently used, especially in the Finder.

I can honestly say that I think that I am going to keep my Apple one button mouse. My laptop is different because I just don't like touchpads that much. They are acceptable for cordless use when I'm on battery for portability, but if I'm at a desk, I prefer a real mouse.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Listen Up]

Ex-fucking-actly. I have run a side business for the past almost 10 years consisting of computer setup, installation, and training. Unless the person I am training is in their middle 20's or younger -and- grew up with a computer, NOBODY understands left click/right click/control click/shift click/top menu/dragging/dropping/etc. They are horribly confused as to why some menu items are on the top, some menu items are on some right/shift/option click, and which one to use if the same option appears in both places. The Windows interface is HIGHLY UNINTUITIVE. I Thank Apple for forcing programmers to think when they are building interfaces.

You are spot on to reality in this case. Reality is that the mass majority of people have not used a computer and it is not natural and intuitive to them.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[jafac]

personally - the ability to have two distinct single-click behaviors in a web browser, is very important to me. (click a link, open the link, wheel-click the same link, open the link in a tab).

Ideology about GUI design be-damned. Perhaps this is just an exception to the ideological "rule". But it's a damned important one.

That's why I run nightly builds of Firefox instead of the latest "release" - because only 1.1 actually works this way on OS X.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[douglasq]

That's just sick and cruel. Somebody call the CPA.

You want them to call a "Certified Public Accountant"?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Not "a CPA", "the CPA"

Childhood Protection Agency.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[fitten]

If you do not see any advantages of "single button looks", you're not in Apple's target demographic.

What demographic is that? Those who value form over function?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[arminw]

....I've grown to detest mouse cables....

The problem with battery operated mice and other battery operated devices is that the battery often dies at the most inopportune time. Generally, the simpler a design, the more reliable it is. Replacing a battery and more complicatted electronics with a simple cable has its virtues of greater reliability.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[greed]

I think this is a very weak argument. No one with more than a few days of computer experience has the slightest trouble with multi-button mice.

This is patently wrong.

People who "are into" computers quickly grasp hold of select/execute on left and menu on right (Windows, OS/2, Amiga, OS X), or select, paste, and extend (X11), or select, execute, menu (Xerox Star, IIRC), or a polybuton chording system, or whatever else floats their UI boat. USB Overdrive and other multi-button interfaces (especially from Kensington) have been around for Macs for ages. People who know what they do love them, and people who have no idea what you're talking about with all these context menus can live without them just fine.

People who don't "get" computers are always asking me, "Left or right click?" They haven't noticed the pattern in the chaos of clicks. Many of them still don't understand the difference between double-click and single-click... and it doesn't help that some things execute on a single click (like hyperlinks), and some select (text regions, icons in the Finder)... and even then they haven't noticed that "double click" means "do the most common or default action on the thing".

Apple's breakthrough wasn't in getting rid of the menu button, that's easy--just remove context-sensitive menus and put them on a fixed place on the screen. Merging "select" and "execute" is what took the brainstorm of using double-clicking.

And we've had to be telling people, "No, just click once!" ever since.

Finally, keep in mind that intermediate and expert users are probably less than 25% of the computer-using population. So a default appropriate for 75% is just fine, Apple has allowed people to plug in other vendor's mice with more buttons ever since the ADB Macs came out.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Golias]

Yeah, but my main system is in my media room, by the projector. I operate it from the couch, currently using a little bluetooth mouse from Kensington (with a make-shift parabolic dish behind the bluetooth sensor to boost the range a little bit.)

The batteries last about two or three months, with heavy use. Of course, I'm pretty good about shutting the mouse off when I'm not using it, rather than letting it go into power-saver mode after five minutes. That probably helps.

So as much of a hassle as some people feel batteries are, a cord would be a much bigger hassle for me.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[koreth]

You said it. I've given up trying to explain to my mom when she should single-click and when she should double-click. Until she got a computer it never even occurred to me that someone could be confused about that. Single-click to select, double-click to activate, or alternately, single-click then double-click if the thing you expected to happen didn't happen. But clearly I've lost my ability to look at a computer from the point of view of a complete newbie.

So now I just let her double-click on everything, from desktop icons to "OK" buttons. Less stress for me to just accept it, less stress for her to not constantly have to ask how many times to click.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[anagama]

The end result is that Mac software is easier to "explore" because all application functions are in the main menu structure, not just hidden in a contextual menu somewhere.

Tell that to apple -- try using, for example, garage band with one button. You can't add a note in a sequencer without using the clover key. Or iTunes -- maybe I haven't looked enough, but it's also hard to use it's features without keyboard modifiers. Or Mail -- the menu option for deleting trash when you right click on the mail trash icon is stated differently from when you use the menu.

Context menus are more intutive. You look at an object on the screen, point to it, and interact with it. Going up to the menu is more like doing things by remote control. The whole one button thing is a tradition without basis -- anyone sitting down to a computer the first time has to learn how to use it. Adding a button to the mouse is really not that hard of a concept. Sort of like the shift key on a keyboard. Press "a", you get "a". Press "shift-a" you get "A". People are capable of understanding this.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

they force the delevopers to think 'Oh, shit: this is a Mac, the user only has one button!', and then they actually think about what goes on the second

Really? Cuz every developer that I know says "Oh, shit, this is a mac. Lets not waste time developing for an insignificant market, roll out the PC version".

No developers care about Apple. Same way most don't care about Firefox. Total numbers sound impressive, but percentage wise, it just isn't worth developing for. Spend an additional 15% dev time, to placate a potential 10% market, not worth it.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Robocrap]

"If I'm a dad with young children" ... "It's actually a pretty fucking cool idea."

let's hope you're never a dad with young children. in which case -- earmuffs!

Re:Welcome to 1986

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I think this is a very weak argument. No one with more than a few days of computer experience has the slightest trouble with multi-button mice.

You're wrong, and you missed the point. First, lots of users have trouble distinguishing whether to use the right or left button and a number of users always press both buttons simultaneously. Then there are people using input devices other than mice. Ever used a touchscreen system? Works fine for pretty much every mac application, but many Windows applications are unusable because you can't get to the right mouse button and functionality is only accessible from that location. The same goes for many devices for the disabled and for voice recognition. Forcing developers to develop for one mouse button means everything has to be in the menus or buttons and following the UI guidelines means they are in both.

You know what though, I don't care too much about any of that. I almost always access my system using a multi-button trackball. I still want Apple to ship with a single button by default though. Do you know why? Because on the typical Windows system, in 90% of the applications, the right mouse button is completely useless. It is assigned to a context menu that contains nothing useful and is crammed with shortcuts the developers thought I'd use, but I never do. On OS X, I can assign whatever I want to the right mouse button. That means it is full of useful shortcuts to other programs I use in conjunction with this one, system services like spelling and translation, scripts I use in a given application, and the actual functions of the program I do use regularly enough to want as shortcuts.

Shipping with a single button mouse might benefit absolute novices, but they're virtually useless for intermediate or expert users. Inflicting them on everyone by default makes no sense at all.

Shipping with a single button by default makes a lot of sense and shipping a mouse with an option to enable multiple buttons for users that know what they are doing makes even more sense. It keeps the developers writing applications properly, the novice users with a good default, and the experts with a 5 second way to get a more complex and functional system. I'm certainly glad you're not in charge at Apple.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Lodragandraoidh]

I thought was really interesting is the fact that they allow you to still program it to use as a one button mouse...Those people that want the simplicity of a one button mouse surely won't be the ones changing the settings to disable the other buttons. After all, that sounds awfully hard to do!

I am guessing here - but knowing Apple (and for that matter Microshaft) interfaces I would assume there is no 'programming' going on here. Instead the user is presented with a GUI interface where they can switch off or on the various configuration options - probably with a pretty picture of a mouse that illustrates the outcome of what the user is asking.

I wouldn't consider that 'awfully hard' or 'programming' for that matter - compared to modifying an /etc/X11/XF86Config or xorg.conf file in X to do the same thing under some flavor of *nix. Although, it would probably be quicker:

vi /etc/X11/XF86Config
# *edit and save the file*
startx

Re:Welcome to 1986

[DrXym]

People who don't "get" computers, get them as soon as they've used them for a couple of days. A single button mouse is helpful at first but becomes an impediment thereafter. Naturally you could buy a new mouse, but that should be factored into the cost of buying a Mac since it ships a mouse that is essentially worthless except as an emergency device to a large portion of its users.

My wife is a novice user (she used to twist the mouse to move the arrow when she started using computers), but even she has grasped the concept of left and right buttons. She doesn't use the right mouse much, but neither is she confused by it and sticks with the left mouse button. She certainly does get confused by single & double clicking but that's a fact of life on any platform.

So why does Apple, Microsoft, Linux use double-clicking on their desktop so extensively if its evil? Single click desktops have been implemented several times from the IE4 "active" desktop to the KDE 1 & 2 desktop and the reason why they got dumped soon becomes obvious when you make a mistake with them. For example, you get punished for accidentally clicking on an icon since it might take 30 seconds to launch the app and then quit the app you never meant to start in the first place.

Double clicking is more deliberate and therefore harder to do by accident.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Angostura]

No one with more than a few days of computer experience has the slightest trouble with multi-button mice

Send me your phone number, and I'll route all support calls from my 80-year-old dad to you. OK?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but think about it. Practically every use of the context menu can be done without it. The context menu is just there for people who are familiar with the cmputer and can intuitively guess what you can do with the right click. Badly designed apps use context menus since developers are too lazy to explore ways for user to interact with objects and it's easy to just stick in a contextual menu item. However, this places the burden to the users. Sure, you can train people to right click on a the app and select "Pause", but what makes the app easy to use is that big frigging double bar button in front of you. Macs interface always have different ways for people to work with, e.g. minimizing a window: click the yellow button, do Command-M, double click on the title bar, go to Window>Minimize Window. Why do you need all this things? Simple, novices probably use Window>Minimize Window or maybe they even guess what that yellow button is for. Power users just do Command-M. But you can't be a power user overnight.

Similarly, contextual menus are not supposed to take over the interface. It is supposed to provide and simplify interface items for people who knows how to work it. It's an alternative, that's all. The confusion with Windows apps is because developers don't think that way. Novices can't always remember to right click simply because the contextual menus are different for different objects. That is why Macs provides multiple ways to interface and if you are so "tired of being forced to reach the hideous keyboard just because I want to "save link as.." or "copy link location" in firefox", spend $20 for a multiple button mouse and your Mac will be happy to use it without even installing a new driver or a reboot.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[pomo monster]

"No one with more than a few days of computer experience has the slightest trouble with multi-button mice."

That's totally untrue. I don't doubt that everyone you coach personally learns the use of two buttons, but most people don't have that benefit.

If they find it easier to get things done with one mouse button than to learn another abstract UI paradigm, why force them to use two?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Daniel_Staal]

Actually, I agree that Firefox, and web browsing in general, is a bad example for this. They fact that it still works, even margianally, shows the robustness of the theory.

Part of this is just because web browsing was never designed with this in mind, consequently no browser acts in a way that would support this fully.

The basic theory in the ideology is this: One click selects, two executes, and a hold allows movement.

Contrast this to a browser: One click executes, two clicks is irrelevent, and a hold (usually) shows options/alternate actions.

It would be interesting to go back and create a browser that actually followed the 'ideal' rules: you would have to double-click to open a link, but you could put other actions in menus on the top, and the double-click would just be the most common of those. Probably you could drag to open in a tab, or to save the link (or link address, depending on your theory of what is represented) someplace.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's demographic is real people with real lives, as opposed to dweebs like you.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why most popular apps had Ctrl-click options, which did the same thing as the PC program's right mouse click BUT made you take your hand off the keyboard.

If Apple was serious about that, there wouldn't've been that Ctrl-click crap.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

As a dad with an absolutely brilliant 3 year old who had absolutle no problems learning to use a Logitech Wireless 2-button, scrollwheel at the tender age of one year old, the argument is pretty bogus. The young learn by watching what we do, and I told her 'use this one, not all the others' and she never had a problem with it, even though it's about 20 times too big for her hand.

Now that damn one-button hockey puck of a mouse -- that's problematic no matter what your age is!

Re:Welcome to 1986

[fitten]

Drink more of that koolaid, bub. Can't let it wear off or you might see the real world. Windows and Linux has users from all walks of life as well, there are just so many of us that we don't feel the need to try to show of the pretty ones to make ourselves feel better. Besides, most of us are too busy getting work done instead of looking at the pretty box.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[tgibbs]

Nonsense, most Mac applications I have used ALREADY make an extensive use of context menus, just like their Windows counterparts

Not quite the same. When I use Windows software, I frequently discover that some important feature is hidden in a context menu. This never seems to happen on the Mac. I can only credit Apple's success in forcing developers to worry about the user with only one mouse button.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[tgibbs]

People who don't "get" computers are always asking me, "Left or right click?" They haven't noticed the pattern in the chaos of clicks.

This has also been my experience. Some people, especially older adults, just never seem to get their mind around the extra buttons. You'll explain it to them, they finally seem to figure it out (although for some of them, "figuring out" means simply learning never to touch the right button), but then they don't use the computer for a few weeks and they're upset because they hit the "wrong" button and some weird menu that they don't understand popped up.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's what makes you dweeby, dweeb.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[ArbitraryConstant]

"I don't think Apple ever believed people "can only handle one button at a time", just that most of the time a second button was a product of poor interface design and not a product of necessity. and they're right."

That's a strawman.

MacOS has used hold-click and CMD-click for a long time. Those take the place of a second button. That all the options are generally available from menus is a result of programmers making it that way, even when the alternate click was available. The Mac implementation might be a bit better (I'm not going to argue this either way), but it's equivilant to the PC implementation in difficulty and functionality. This whole issue can be ignored.

The important issue is the (until now) lack of a scroll wheel. To argue against PC-style mice is to argue against scroll wheels, and that is a very difficult position to take. They're as intuitive as the mouse itself, and they make scrolling operations vastly easier. This omission is what has been making Apple mice inferior, and what continues to make non-premium mice inferior.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

But, if they believe that people want the simplicity of a one button mouse, wouldn't they ship this thing out of the box with only one button functioning?

No, they're smarter than that. When you plug it in out of the box, all of the buttons work; they just do exactly the same thing -- a normal, "single" click. Then, you configure it to have it work exactly the way you want it to. So, if you want to have a "right-click" for the right button, that's fine. But it doesn't force the settings on anyone. That's what makes the whole design innovative.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[JadeNB]

Surely, when Apple's own Finder requires various right- and middle-click applications for ease of use (really, tell me how to select multiple files which are not adjacent in the window without using the keyboard, and I'll be very very happy), it is reasonable to say that even Apple doesn't believe in an interface with a single mouse button.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[arose]

When an interface can be done well using one button developers will follow the human interface guidlines and do so. When it can't even Apple will make a 3 button mouse a requirement. Shipping with a mouse that will most probably replaced is bad enough, but at least now you can replace with an Apple branded mouse (if you don't mind pushing solid surfaces instead of clicking that is...)

Re:Welcome to 1986

[rokzy]

what a crap teacher you are.

if you know the best way to learn is to do it yourself why do you bombard him with irrelevant details?

let him click however he wants to click. if he double-clicks when only a singe is needed it still works. and if he single-clicks when a double is needed nothing will happen, he'll work out what's wrong, and LEARN FOR HIMSELF.

if you keep jumping in and saying what he's doing wrong (or just not the most efficient way) how the fuck is he supposed to know what's going on?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[arose]

You could probably do it with a Firefox extension.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

If driving instructors somehow manage to teach the difference between the pedals than why can't you teach the difference between the mouse buttons. Call one 'default' (you click, double click and select with this...) and the other 'context menu' (...except when you want context menus). Write the names on the buttons if you must. The difference between single click and double click is another story.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[curious.corn]

I'm getting sick of this 10% market share argument. Ok the fraction of deployed boxes across the whole damn world may be 10% but how many of them are plain ATMs, cash registers, glorified dumb terminals for office routine, simple household web surfboards. Unless I'm MS selling Office I want to cater for the target niche I intend to fill, however large it is. I don't give a rats ass if the application I'm building supports the most popular platform of the planet when it's not as dominant in the field I cater for; what do I care if Joe Aol could run my app on his basement Dell when I'm 90% sure he'd never install or even imagine it's existence. I'd be an utter fool if my app didn't support a popular platform in the segment I develop for; ok Windows is everywhere, so it's a safe bet but it'd be stupid to ignore the mac if my potential user base was 20-30% macs. Unless you're MS, you always develop for a minority...

Re:Welcome to 1986

[arose]

You have no sense of style. A mouse with symetrical buttons around a scrollwheel looks better than a mouse without buttons and a mysterious knob/ball in the middle that has no visual connection to anything (the groove between the buttons connects the scrollwheel to the rest of the mouse, without them it would look out of place).

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, there are 4 click-modifier keys (cmd, alt, ctrl, shift), which in all permutations give you 16 ways to click your mouse - and your left hand stays where you can quickly fire up all kinds of shortcuts. I'm pretty happy with this.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[kidNexus]

If I'm a dad with young children, I might want to set up the mouse preferences differently depending on the user. Full-functions for me and the older kids, one-button for the toddlers and grandparents. It's actually a pretty fucking cool idea.

mentioning toddlers and grandparents in one sentence, then dropping the f-bomb in the next... mod this fucker up +5 for style

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Midnight Thunder]

Personally, I'm going to pass until they come out with a bluetooth version of it. I've grown to detest mouse cables.

For me batteries are the issue, especially when a charging station is not included. Would be nice to have a bluetooth mouse with a USB socket, that way you could plug it in to charge it.

The USB cables on the Mac mice are actually quite short, since the Apple keyboards double as hubs.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[John Harrison]

I am also willing to wait for a BT version. My desk is such a rat's nest that every cable I can get rid of is a minor blessing.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[LafinJack]

No one with more than a few days of computer experience has the slightest trouble with multi-button mice.

...

My wife is a novice user (she used to twist the mouse to move the arrow when she started using computers), but even she has grasped the concept of left and right buttons.

Logical fallacy #8:

Statistics of small numbers (such as drawing conclusions from inadequate sample sizes).

I'm sure she's a very nice lady, but your wife is not a valid sample group.

How long have you worked computer technical support? Unless you're in a specialized support field, you will constantly get people confused by the concept of "right click" vs. "left click" when you try to give direction to them. A new user may right click a couple times when they first use a computer, but all they see is a big scary box filled with crazy words, not a context-specific list of commands. They then learn not to hit that side of the mouse and forget about it completely.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[LafinJack]

...tell me how to select multiple files which are not adjacent in the window without using the keyboard...

How do you do the same task in Windows Explorer without using the keyboard?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[fitten]

Whatever props your self esteem up... If elitism does it for you, well... we'd probably have disagreements on what "real life" means.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[LafinJack]

So wait, a control-click makes you take your hand off the keyboard?

And Apple realized that a small subset of its customers (power users) wanted extra functionality in their OS without having to add extensions to the interface like Kensington's old mouse software. Single-button is good from the UI standpoint of the novice user, but experienced users need more than that.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Sit a Windows/Mac/KDE/Gnome user in front of an old Sun CDE session and watch the hijinks as they try to left click on things.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Make them adjacent to each other. It's not like you can't move the icons. And if you didn't know that middle-click would let you do this, or that the keyboard could help you, that's just how you'd do it. I've seen some of my clients do it -- even on Windows with their required multi-button mice.

I can certainly understand why you want your extra buttons, but don't pretend it should be possible with modifier keys.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Daniel_Staal]

Maybe; I don't know what is possible with an extension in Firefox. But I actually doubt it, and even if you could it probably would defeat the purpose.

The purpose would be to re-think the interface to the web, from the ground up. A click selects a link: What does that mean? Hey, maybe the 'address' bar should hold the current 'selected' link, not the current page (unless you are typing in something else). Benefit: you can edit the link easily, and see where you are going.

Now, if that's the 'selected' link, and you can edit it, does that edit in the page? Probably not, so the page will have to de-select the link as you type.

So, what happens if you click a bookmark? The obvious thing is to select it: load it into the address bar, but not load it. Well, if we can save that back then we have just simplified bookmark management, but we may want to work on how you use bookmarks. Preferably you should double-click them... A new window? (Wait, Firefox has this.)

Oh, and what does 'save' mean?...

The point would be to re-build the UI, from scratch. See if any interesting ideas come from it. An extension, even if it was possible, would prompt you to be lazy: not change anything, just use what is there. But that is exactly what we are examining.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[arose]

Maybe; I don't know what is possible with an extension in Firefox. But I actually doubt it, and even if you could it probably would defeat the purpose.

There is an extension that "emacsifies" Firefox, it's not a complete re-buid, but quite different. Doing it as a Firefox extension may not be the end goal, rather an experiment (lazy is good there), as a plus it would be easy to try without a huge download.

The purpose would be to re-think the interface to the web, from the ground up.

Not for me.

A click selects a link: What does that mean?

It selects the link, like current GUI browsers select with 'Tab' and file managers select files.

Hey, maybe the 'address' bar should hold the current 'selected' link, not the current page (unless you are typing in something else). Benefit: you can edit the link easily, and see where you are going.

The status bar would show the selected link like file managers display file information. You could drag or copy and paste the link into the address bar to edit it or double clik to go to it directly.

So, what happens if you click a bookmark? The obvious thing is to select it: load it into the address bar, but not load it.

If the bookmarks are in a menu like now the obvious thing is to activate.

Oh, and what does 'save' mean?...

Copying the page or item the disk of course. You drag or copy and paste a link or multiple links from the address bar or the page into the file manager and it's saved there. Or you choose save from a menu or context menu (save current, save selected).

The point would be to re-build the UI, from scratch.

I was thinking more in terms of fixing inconsistencies with the rest of the GUI, most notably file browsers.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[JadeNB]

How do you do the same task in Windows Explorer without using the keyboard?

An excellent point, but Microsoft, despite its many flaws, is not the one insisting on a single-button mouse to force developers to conform to a mindset which it espouses but does not practice.

As to the Anonymous Coward's suggestion, putting aside the inconvenience of changing my auto-arrange settings just to highlight some files, what if the files I want to select form more than a line, but not a complete rectangle? Anyway, this kind of quibbling is beside the point -- all I mean the current configuration makes it inconvenient to do something that could be easy with more buttons. (Creating a new folder would have been a better example. Can that be done without using a modifier key? Again, if the answer is yes, I'm happy to receive my comeuppance in return for finding out how.)

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, of course, treat your developers like retards, that's why there's so much great software unique to the Mac... like that Mac puzzle game thingy... and all that software they had to beg off Microsoft like Office... and erm... marathon thingy from a few years ago... and photoshop... and iTunes for those DRM'd media files yeah...

Re:Welcome to 1986

[DrXym]

Don't be silly. I just used my wife as an illustrative example. I've worked with enough novices to know that they are quite capable of learning how to use a two button mouse.

In fact you bringing up technical support shows you fall into the same trap. People who call technical support with basic issues are by definition clueless. Claiming that this self-selecting group are scared by dialogs or anything else from inadvertent right mouse clicks is meaningless. How many users *don't* call technical support or call with advanced questions? How many learn not to use the right mouse button until later when they're more comfortable with their machine? Besides it's just as easy to invoke something scary from a Mac and a single button since all the contextual actions are up in the menu bar with the non-contextual actions.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Daniel_Staal]

Sounds like we would have different objectives. ;) (Not a bad thing, just different.) I would question every 'of course', just because I wanted to see what other choices there were. Maybe they are good choices, maybe not. I'd be trying to find out. It's a very theoritical approach. You sound to be more interested in a practical approach. Also useful, just not what I'd me most interested in.

I've never written, or looked at writing a Firefox extension, so I have no idea what they can do. (I use Firefox at work, but at home I use Safari.)

Re:Welcome to 1986

[biglig2]

Ah, you make one of the prime errors of user support. Because someone does not know how to use their computer does not make them clueless. I have taught a nobel laureate how to work their computer. That doesn't make me cleverer than him, it doesn't make him clueless.

I mean, you don't know how to construct a quarterly dynamic model of total factor productivity growth in UK manufacturing using cointegration techniques, correcting for a variety of measurement biases, do you? Does that make you clueless?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[DrXym]

Because someone does not know how to use their computer does not make them clueless.

Yes it does, by definition. Look it up in dictionary.com if you don't believe me. That doesn't mean they'll remain clueless, but at that point they are. If you'd read what I said you would have realised I said as much by asking how many learnt from calling support.

And yes I am clueless about what you're talking about. In the unlikely event that I ever need learn what you're talking about I will no longer be clueless. Got it?

Re:Welcome to 1986

[arose]

Only 'of course' in the context of current GUIs.

I only know of Firefox extensions trough using them, I have switched to Epiphany some time ago at home. Either way I don't have the skills to do it even it was possible.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[AvitarX]

In what example is right click more important in XP than in OSX?

I can think on one minor case:

working off the desktop, since you don't have the menus there. But since on a PC the intended use of the desktop appears to be links to all your programs I see little use for the right click.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding. It amazes me how many juveniles are on this site and think every one is like them.
Once they grow up and see the real world, I'm going to laugh.

Oh, and just to comment on the grand parent - NOTHING on the mac is hard to do, but if you WANT to do something hard you can.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to use Linux, and Windows before that. But since I got a mac I no longer have to dick with drivers, config files and other crap. Everything I plug into it just works.

Buy one, you won't be sorry, disapointed, upset, etc...

Caveat:
I do however mess with config files when I WANT to go back to doing unix things, but that's only when *I* want to NOT because I HAVE to. I use HP-UX and Linux at work to fix broken firmware for R&D, so when I go home I just want something that works. I'm a happy Mac user. YMMV.

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Daniel_Staal]

Well, I'll put it on my 'someday' list: I've done some programming in Cocoa, and this should be fairly easy with Webkit. (The hardest part would be figuring out what I need to do to override the default Webkit behaviors.)

Re:Welcome to 1986

[Anonymous Coward]

To create a new folder in Finder without hitting any keys, do the following:

1) Click on Finder's "file" menu in the menu bar at the top of the screen.

2) Select "new folder".

Gettting cold in here

[FunWithHeadlines]

Man, Hell isn't as hot as I was led to believe. Is it getting cold in here or is it just me?

Hey, wait a minute, what will the Apple trolls do? Won't somebody think of the trooooollls?

OK, seriously, I hope this finally ends all the lame "Yeah, but it only got a one-button mouse" idiocy whenever Apple hardware is discussed around here. You always could use a multi-button mouse with OS X. Now you can do it with a shiny new Apple mouse. Let's put these snipes to rest, k?

Re:Gettting cold in here

[desolation angel]

what will the Apple trolls do?

iTunes still doesn't support .ogg does it?

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Sarin]

OK, seriously, I hope this finally ends all the lame "Yeah, but it only got a one-button mouse" idiocy whenever Apple hardware is discussed around here. You always could use a multi-button mouse with OS X. Now you can do it with a shiny new Apple mouse. Let's put these snipes to rest, k?

I just hope that the powerbooks are going to have multiple mouse buttons.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[WhiteBandit]

Sure it does.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[aftk2]

Unfortunately, there will always be new fodder for Apple trolls.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Gropo]

And lo, on the 6th day, Jobs saw the trolls he had created, and he saw their annoyance unto man. And the trolls, which The Lord Jobs had created from Macintosh, would be smited by multiple buttons, and those buttons were brought unto the Macintosh. Therefore shall a mouse click unto left and right, and shall cleave unto a scroll: and they shall be one flesh.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[MouseR]

I hope this finally ends all the lame "Yeah, but it only got a one-button mouse" idiocy

No. They'll go on forever and say "it took Apple 20 years to innovate a second button mouse on there".

Re:Gettting cold in here

[guacamole]

You always could use a multi-button mouse with OS X

Which is not convenient at all on the portables which constitute a huge share of apple's sales. I am not buying one until Apple puts proper mouse buttons on its portables.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Gruuk]

Hummm... wouldn't they be right, though?
The Powers That Were/Be at Apple did choose to stick with a single button mouse all this time, after all; I think it is entirely reasonable to question such a choice, since they were the only ones to do it (and considering how many people bought themselves a multi-button mouse for their Mac). Had this been the "right" design decision, lots of manufacturers would have copied the single button philosophy (just look at how many iPod clones there are, an example of of when Apple gets it very "right"). Perhaps it was the right choice in the past, but as computer litteracy spread, it may not be that relevant anymore. (Please don't use the grandma/grandpa argument, they can use solitaire and write texts/e-mails just fine on windows even though there is an evil, diabolic right button on the mouse)

So wondering what took them so long is perfectly valid, even coming from someone who has been using Macs since 1984 (like yours truly).

Re:Gettting cold in here

[caino59]

neither do most mp3 players..

wah.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[wankledot]

It will only end the trolls if they ship this mouse with every machine... which I don't think they will be. A one-button mouse will still be standard, and you can still buy two-button ones. Nothing has changed.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they don't. The laptop is the one place where I think the single button (and use of cmd/ctrl-modifiers) actually makes things easier.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[mcc]

I am not buying one until Apple puts proper mouse buttons on its portables.

It seems like this "one button with HIDDEN BUTTONS OMG" technology could be relatively easily adapted to laptops.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[MartinB]

It may just be a function of not updating all the product attributes fast enough on launch day, but none of the BTO Macs on the Apple Store (disclaimer: only tried the UK store, didn't try the lappies) appear to offer this mouse as an option.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[wankledot]

Interesting, I suppose they could replace the normal mouse with these and ship them in single-button mode by default, that would have the same result as shipping a one-button mouse. It would be nice to see them as the default mouse for iMacs/G5s.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has never, ever had a one-button mouse. They moved the second button to the keyboard(option key). Why? Because they KNOW that all their users are retards.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Ahnteis]

They compliment the "OGM teh Windows will crash every 5 minutes and BSOD and you'll have to reboot 30 times a day!" people.

The "Real... buffering ... Player" people also like them.

I'm sure there are more examples. And they all get modded "funny" by SOMEONE.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Anonymous Coward]

as pointed out above, it does support ogg.

Re:Gettting cold in here

[Anonymous Coward]

All the macs are shipped with one-button mouse. HO HO HO!!!

Sometimes, its difficult to see who is biggest whore of all - an Apple whore on /. or an Apple whore on /.?

It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[rcs1000]

Now, I could be wrong. But RTFA, nowhere does it say touch sensitive. In fact, it's very clear there are a number (four?) of buttons on there, plus it is able to recognise a "rocking" motion.

Nothing too revolutionary, me thinks.

(But hey... this means I can through away my Logitech mouse and use a kewl white one!)

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[TomHandy]

When you tell people to RTFA, maybe you might want to do so yourself? Hell, it's in the opening bolded paragraph:

"And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design. "

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[Kafka_Canada]

Maybe you could also start typing with your keyboard instead of your mouse? (Or alternately, buy a mouse with a built-in spellchecker.)

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[ilsie]

Sorry buddy, but apparently you did not RTFA. From TFA:

"And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design. Click, roll, squeeze and scroll."

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[R.D.Olivaw]

You are indeed wrong. A quick search through TFA shows that it is touch-sensitive.

"Touch-sensitive technology under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where you're clicking"

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[Fahrvergnuugen]

It is touch sensitive.

From Apple's site:

"Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button. Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don't need two buttons -- just two fingers."

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[conigs]

From the second page:

Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button.

Many times, RTFA-ing might mean clicking beyond the first page.
I don't know about this though... I'm not to keen on having a touch sensitive button, but I'll hold off judgement until I can get my hands on one in an Apple store.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[Anonymous Coward]

>>RTFA, nowhere does it say touch sensitive>>

Uh, www.apple.com. Front page. Third line. First phrase.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[phigga]

...I think you're wrong.

I RTFA too, and in the very first paragraph it says "And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design."

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[Spyro VII]

In fact, it's very clear there are a number (four?) of buttons on there, plus it is able to recognise a "rocking" motion.

Please read to comprehend.

And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design. Click, roll, squeeze and scroll. This mouse just aced the maze.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[randyest]

Indeed, it has four "button areas" you can press. But that's not what the post said:

"It appears that the entire surface is touch-sensitive, allowing the mouse to be programmed as a single-button, multi-button or scrolling device."

No, it does not appear that way. From TFA:

It wouldn't be fair to call Mighty Mouse a two-button mouse with one button. Especially when it responds to pressure from your fingers in four different places. Besides the left- and right-click functions, the Scroll Ball clicks down to act as a third mouse button. And force-sensing buttons on either side of Mighty Mouse respond when you press in with your finger and thumb.

That's a far cry from a mouse completely covered in touch-sensitive surface, which implies I can program a bunch of areas (or at least more than two) on the top as seperate buttons. It's clear from the Apple site that I cannot do that with this mouse. There are two buttons on top (shame they couldn't make the track-ball scroll thingy a button too -- no middle button on top makes this unsuitable for me.) There are two buttons on the sides. Still looks very cool, and like the scroll-ball-thing, but there is no middle button on the top and that's a bit of a letdown for me.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[Anonymous Coward]

You're wrong.

The linked page, the 'Design' page, and the 'Tech Specs' page *all* mention the touch-sensitive technology.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[setantae]

Umm, the "track ball scrolly thing" *is* a button. You even quoted the text where they say that.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[pstreck]

FTFA: http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/design.html Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today's multibutton world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do? Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[TheWart]

According to Apple:

"Touch-sensitive technology under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where you're clicking, transforming your sleek, one-button mouse into a two-button wonder. But the innovation doesn't end there. Apple engineers added force-sensing buttons on either side of Mighty Mouse that let you squeeze the mouse between your thumb and finger, activating Mac OS X Tiger Dashboard, Exposé or a whole host of other, customizable features -- instantly."

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[smallguy78]

Meet the mouse that reinvented the wheel. The scroll wheel, that is. At $49, Mighty Mouse features the revolutionary Scroll Ball that lets you move anywhere inside a document, without lifting a finger. And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design. Click, roll, squeeze and scroll. This mouse just aced the maze.

Spry and Mighty
In the beginning, there was one button. Then there were two. Then there were clickable scroll wheels and programmable toggles and solid-state slides. But nobody made a mouse as easy to use as your Mac. Until now. Mighty Mouse combines the capability of a multibutton mouse with Apple's signature top-shell design for the best of both form and function. Use it any way you work: Stick with single-button simplicity or click with multibutton efficiency.

Get Around
Time is round. Space is curved. Why should your mouse be linear? Plenty of applications require you to do more than scroll up and down. Mighty Mouse offers 360-degree scrolling capability, thanks to its Scroll Ball, perfectly positioned to roll smoothly under just one finger. Explore the farthest reaches of your files -- pan images in iPhoto, view timelines in iMovie HD and Final Cut Pro, traverse bars in GarageBand and Logic Pro -- with one hand tied behind your back (or holding a cup of coffee or typing). Mighty Mouse gives you room to roam.

You'll Really Click
Touch-sensitive technology under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where you're clicking, transforming your sleek, one-button mouse into a two-button wonder. But the innovation doesn't end there. Apple engineers added force-sensing buttons on either side of Mighty Mouse that let you squeeze the mouse between your thumb and finger, activating Mac OS X Tiger Dashboard, Exposé or a whole host of other, customizable features -- instantly.

The Mouse That Roared
Unlike any other mouse on the market, Mighty Mouse was designed specifically to work with Mac OS X Tiger. Up-to-the minute information on Dashboard is only a click away. Viewing, hiding and selecting your windows via Exposé is just as simple. And because Mac OS X Tiger makes Mighty Mouse programmable, you choose where every click takes you.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[Anonymous Coward]

The scrollball is a button. What I'm curious about is if the sides qualify as two buttons or just one.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[e4g4]

It is, in fact touch sensitive. The might mouse has two touch sensitive regions where the buttons should be (Apple calls this the "touch sensitive top shell") and two "Force sensing side buttons." Presumably the mouse functions in the same way as the old apple mouse, whereby the entire mouse is a button, the change here being that the mouse will also detect which side of the mouse you're clicking with.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[generic-man]

Just one, according to this screen shot. However, this is an Apple product, so I'm sure there will be all sorts of $20 shareware products to "hack" the mouse.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[randyest]

Right -- sorry. I see that now.

Re:It isn't touch sensitive, I think

[PhatboySlim]

Correct, the outer shell has no distinctive lines to indicate that there is more than one button, but you also realize that there are specific regions which can be controlled, to allow more "areas" or "buttons" to be pressed.

So the question remains, is Apple declaring victory or admitting defeat?

Apple owns my soul

[imsoclever]

Do I need one? No. Will I buy one? Oh god yes.

Re:Apple owns my soul

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty much the same thing every Mac zealot thinks about every Apple product. It's what the rest of us call "Steve's Koolaid".

Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[pVoid]

But I hate touch sensitive input devices which provide absolutely no feedback. Apple should know this from their own iPods. Gen 3 was fully touch sensitive, gen 4 has embedded buttons that go "click" to give you feedback that you've actually pressed the thing.

As gentle as it might be, the hand always recognizes the threshold of 'clicking' a button, but I find that it's practically impossible to tell if you've clicked a touch sensitive surface or not.

All of that, IMHO. I wouldn't go gaga over this mouse.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[QueenOfSwords]

Its got a speaker, probably much like the iPod one, for click feedback.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[MustardMan]

From the Apple website...
You'll Really Click
Touch-sensitive technology under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where you're clicking, transforming your sleek, one-button mouse into a two-button wonder. But the innovation doesn't end there. Apple engineers added force-sensing buttons on either side of Mighty Mouse that let you squeeze the mouse between your thumb and finger, activating Mac OS X Tiger Dashboard, Exposé or a whole host of other, customizable features -- instantly.

It sounds to me like the mouse will use the "whole-body" click method, and use the touch sensors to detect which side you pressed down on. I still think the design is kind of agains the apple philosophy, because by making two buttons that LOOK like one button, they are giving an avenue for confusion for the newbie user. Then again, this mouse will probably remain an optional upgrade for "advanced" users

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Rude Turnip]

This mouse makes clicking sounds when you press it...much in the way the iPod scroll wheel doesn't move, but still makes clicking sounds.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[mederjo]

The design page says it has a little speaker to provide audible feedback. How exactly that would compare with tactile feedback I'm not sure.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[mederjo]

I assuming it makes clicking noises rather squeaking noises :-).

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[mederjo]

Ack, I'm too tired, let me say that again -

I'm assuming it makes clicking noises rather than squeaking noises :-).

Just about have my own thread going on here... must sleep... zzzz NO CARRIER etc.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[PhilHibbs]

R! T! F! A!

Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button. Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don't need two buttons -- just two fingers.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[CapnGib]

Grab the regular apple zero-button mouse. I know its got no buttons on top, but it's ok, don't be scared. Click it like you're used to. Did it click? It did? Good. Thats because the clicking button bit is just hidden on the bottom. Now click it with your right finger. It still clicks? Good.

Now the mighty-mouse is the same thing, it clicks! But its got a touch sensor under each finger to determine WHICH finger made it click.

They also added a BALL on the top to scroll left, right, up, down, and click for button-3. The 2 gray tabs on the side are pressure sensitive "squeeze-click" for button-4. You can still click-n-hold using the side tabs without fear of activating button-4, since this button is pressure sensitive.

I believe the builtin speaker is for the ball and squeeze-click buttons, not the primary 2 buttons.

Smart design... complicated engineering... intuitive to use... nice to look at... it's not for everybody.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Apple's mice do travel up and down the touch sensitivity is simply to determine if you want left or right. You will feel the mouse button travel down and click.

AUDIO FEEDBACK
"Mighty Mouse even sounds as good as it feels. The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects."

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[eunos94]

Let me be the first to say "Thank you." No only do I have no idea what you are trying to point out, but your bold, capital, multi-puncuated, character seperated, acronym made *everything* so much clearer.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[PoshSpod]

so you don't need two buttons -- just two fingers

Curses!

-- One-Fingured Pete

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Hanji]

Tactile feedback >>>> audible feedback for buttons. And it has the bonus of not driving everyone else in the room insane, like the iPod's click does.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[timster]

What you quoted does not contradict what he said.

What he said was that it seems like, while there IS touch-sensitive technology, it is used ONLY to determine whether a given click is a left-side or right-side one. I'm not sure whether this is true, but the Apple site does not make it clear.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[RevAaron]

Also, it may be set to one-button mode by default, so that for n00bs, it isn't much different than the current pill mouse.

Doesn't seem all that weird to me, as long as there is some feedback.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[WhiteBandit]

There are still third party solutions modeled after Apple's hockeypuck that fix exactly what you complain about. Though this doesn't have side scrolling capability.

However, this one comes in bluetooth form as well.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[CapnGib]

It is not clear on the main page, but on the tech specs page, it is referred to as a "full-body button" which is exactly what they call the system in the current zero-button mouse (rocking microswitch).

The microswitch registers the click, like the current mouse. The touch sensitive bit is to determine which of the 3 buttons you click (L, R, ball). QED

Fourth button is a squeezing action registered by pressure sensitive tabs on the sides, so you can still click-and-hold like before, without registering a button-4 click.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Captain Perspicuous]

The difference is that with a standard multi-button mouse, i can rest fingers on both buttons, press down one side and it knows what I have done. With the current Apple design, it cannot know what you want if you rest both your fingers on the mouse.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Achoi77]

Dude, you should RTFP post more carefully before you decide to 'correct' him. I beleive MustardMan's assessment on how the mouse works is correct: emphasis is given on *where* the mouse button was pressed down on, not which button. The whole shell is the mouse button, hence therefore you have the *look* of one mouse button. Functionally, you have two mouse buttons due to the added touch sensor. It's a pretty nonconventional way to make a mouse, and much more expensive I bet - but hey, pretty cool nonetheless.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Lepton68]

How do you know that? I'll guess that if fingers are on both sides of the top, then it does a left click. So, to do a right click you only have to lift the left finger. That would work fine.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[PhilHibbs]

RTFA means Read The Fine Article, which I then quoted (actually I quoted the "Design" section of the linked article).

It uses a capacitive sensor. No movement is required. Speculating that the shell moves up and down when clicking is like speculating that the touchpad on a laptop probably moves up and down.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Captain Perspicuous]

Well, actually, nobody knows because we haven't tried out the mouse yet. But reading from the apple site, it looks like the user will not be able to "just move a finger", but to consciously make sure that only the right finger is on the mouse when he presses the mouse down to arrive at a right-click, which sounds cumbersome. Your idea to "lift the left finger to get a right click" doesn't sound too intuitive either, imho.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[CapnGib]

wrong. the touch sensitive bit is not binary. it is a capacitance sensor which reacts to the amount of surface and force you use. simply resting both fingers on the mouse won't confuse it. you need to apply uneven force to the sensor while activating the microswitch (clicking).

Is it more complicated engineering than a standard multi-button mouse? Yes. Does it react in the same way? Pretty much Yes. Is it different? Yes.

In typical apple fashion, it is over-engineered, for UI and appearance reasons. It also just works.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[PhilHibbs]

That same page also says that it has a tiny speaker inside to provide audible feedback in the absence of tactile feedback.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[TheGuano]

Wow, a built-in speaker. I guess there's no mechanical click or pivot like the current mouse. I wonder if that's a good idea, considering they ended up changing the ipod's all-solid-state interface to the clickwheel...I like the tactile aspect to using a mouse and I think I'm going to miss it (I hate the lack of feedback when I tap-to-click on a touchpad). But back to the speaker: I wonder if you can hack it to make it talk! Touch the mouse and it grunts "STOP POKING ME!!!!" or "Why do you keep touching me???"

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Desert Raven]

Apple's mice do travel up and down the touch sensitivity is simply to determine if you want left or right.

It's gonna be mighty confused if I use it then. I never lift my fingers from the buttons. It's much more comfortable and less strain-inducing to let my hand lightly rest across the mouse.

Of course, that's why I still have my old Trackman Marble FX, it's designed to keep the hand in "position of function". I used to have RSI issues, but not from the keyboard, it was from the *mouse*. Modern ones are better, but designing a mouse where you have to keep your fingers hovering, but not touching is certainly not a step forward.

To me, this is all about Apple's childish refusal to admit that one-button mice suck. They're giving in, but trying to not admit it by producing something that doesn't *look* like it has two buttons.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Listen Up]

You will just have to change the way you think. In this case, you will have to change the way you think about your ideas of buttons and physical clicking sensations.

I am currently build an industrial touchscreen HMI and I have been loving every second of it. Almost every existing idea of how a person would normally interact with a computer has to be rethought to work with only a touchscreen in mind. It has been a truly enlightening experience and very rewarding, especially for thoughts on future projects. Not putting physical clicking buttons on a mouse is the exact same type of idea. Brilliant of Apple.

The people who dislike the touchscreen HMI are always the ones who are afraid of change in any capacity, whether the change is good or not. Those people are highly unfortunate.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Captain Perspicuous]

Is this the same as with the capacitance sensors in the trackpad, which do not really measure pressure, but the area that your finger covers, which gets bigger if you press your finger harder to the surface (according to the developer of "FingaMIDI")?

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[eunos94]

Speculating that the mouse, which has previously always moved up and down, does not now move up and down is like speculating that the touchpad on a laptop, that has always been a touchpad, will no longer be a touchpad, but will move up and down. I would not infer that any changes to the up/down motion of the mouse have been made unless is specified that, which it did not.

The article, and more specifically your quoted portion, only states that the mouse senses where the pressure is coming from. I would infer that it clicks like a normal mouse, but additionally senses which side of the mouse the click had come from. You obviously interpreted that differently. However, in your brilliantly worded and loquacious analysis of article that contained a stunning four letters, one could not discern that fact. One could only tell that someone who may have read the article should somehow read it again for some unstated purpose to find some unstated fact about some unstated topic. Kudos to you and your new reductionist conversation! If only we could all be so eloquent and concise. I shall stop using words to say things and mere use single acronyms that imply no meaning other than a cliche usage.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Anonymous Coward]

To me, this is all about Apple's childish refusal to admit that one-button mice suck.

If Apple had a history of childish refusal to change, I might agree with you. But when you look at Apple's recent ventures, they've thrown out all kinds of once-sacred notions. They started the iPod with physically depressable buttons, for instance, then moved on to touch-sensitive switches, then moved to the clickwheel.

They went from the all-in-one iMac to offering the monitorless, keyboardless, mouseless Mac Mini. Most tellingly, the company that used to use Intel as a whipping boy is now switching their entire line to Intel chips!

I think the reason Apple keeps the one-button form factor is because they know they have a significant portion of their client base that likes it that way. In my experience, often the most extraordinarily successful people have little tolerance for learning anything outside their domains of passionate expertise. In other words, there are a number of smart, rich people who like one button mice, and they are a market that Apple has built their business on, in part.

Apple wants to retain these people and retain their image as a provider of simple, elegant solutions. That is why they stick to one button mice.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[anagama]

I bought one of those -- the bluetooth version. The mouse motion is choppy -- though maybe I need to use DVForge's driver. Here's where the mouse completely fails though: the buttons require too much force to press. Something about how they are situated or actuated, but this mouse is extremely tiring to use. I've relegated it to a shelf only to be used when everything else, even a two button roller-ball mouse, is in service. Kind of a shame for $60.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[alnjmshntr]

Right, just imagine using this for gaming.. it can't be good :/

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks like the mouse still goes click, and there's still a single button mechanism, the touch sensitive part is used only to determine which 'button' you pressed. Pretty cool idea actually, though I'm not sure why you wouldn't just put two buttons on it.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[PhilHibbs]

Sounds great, let me know how that works out for you.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought one of those mice, and it really sucks. The buttons are really hard to press, and there's no feedback. Plus, they're ugly; they're not silver or titanium-colored, they're grey.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[bsn0313]

I was under the impression that the mouse actually physically clicked, and it just uses the touch sensors to figure where you are pressing, and acts accordingly...maybe I'm wrong, time will tell.

I think it's cool.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Misanthropy]

I'm a mac user, but I hate the mice. I never liked the "no button" mouse. And this one looks no better (for me).
And the "audio feedback" speaker sounds like it would get annoying really fast. I want to feel my mouse click. Not hear it.
Though, I'm the sort that hates all sound from my computer unless I ask for it (e.g. music). Sound coming from my mouse sounds even worse.

I'll stick with my logitech optical wheel mouse.
Nice feel, quiet click, responsive.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Misanthropy]

Tis is the exact reason that apple ditched the all touch-sensitive input on 3G ipods and put a click wheel on 4G ipods.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[MustardMan]

That would be all well and good, except for the fact that you're fucking wrong. Read the tech specs, it operates exactly how I described. I quoted the "fine" article as well, and your interpretation of the wording in the article was incorrect. Reading The Fucking Article does no good when you're unable to correctly interpret the fucking article.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[kettch]

I'd have no end of problems because my mouse hand doesn't sit still. I'm constantly figeting with the mouse. I tap, fiddle, stroke (shut up, there's no other way to describe it), and other idle motions that have nothing to do with any action on the screen. All of this takes place without anything weird happening because the mouse buttons "resist".
I also prefer keyboards with a slightly higher (but not too high) tactile response.

But that's just me, individual results may vary.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you may have misinterpreted the design. From their website:

On Mighty Mouse, the entire top shell is the actual button. As with previous versions of the Apple mouse, simply press on the upper surface to click -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the clever click mechanism.

It seems that the mouse has one mechanical button, but that is coupled with the finger position on the touch-sensitive surface at the time of clicking to produce a left or right click.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[MenTaLguY]

Out of idle curiosuity, are you dealing with issues like Gorilla Arm?

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[StarManta.Mini]

Nice try, but how about running up to an Apple store and using it before you make snap judgments.

I'm doing that right now, and I'll report: this mouse feels just like the old Apple mouse as far as clicking is concerned - it still ravels, it still "clicks" even without the aid of the speaker. Sqeezing the mouse activates Expose (configurable, of couse), and pressing down on the ball causes the entire mouse to travel just like the two "real" buttons-that-arent-buttons.

My only gripe is that the side buttons (which I might add only act as one button) require quite a bit of unnatural squeezing force - but I suspect this is only because I'm not used to it. Only time will tell whether that's an issue in the future.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Anonymous Coward]

from the design page of the article:

"On Mighty Mouse, the entire top shell is the actual button. As with previous versions of the Apple mouse, simply press on the upper surface to click -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the clever click mechanism."

i don't think anyone has actually used one of these yet, but maybe it actually clicks like the old mice, but uses the sensors to see which finger is doing the clicking. i don't know what happens when both fingers are resting on the mouse at the same time...maybe relative values?

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[line.at.infinity]

According to a review by a user who visited an Apple Store, there is tactile feedback.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[Anonymous Coward]

The left and right mouse buttons click.

The side squeeze buttons click.

And when you move the little 360o scroll ball, it has a soft vibrating feeling.

Very slick mouse - I tried it out today at the local Apple Store.

And the red optical LED on it's underside auto-dims when you pick up the mouse - up off of the surface you are working on.

I'll stick to logitech marble mouse I already have though,
360o scrolling all the time - great for work and for games.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[pVoid]

You speak of closed mindedness, but you are unaware that you are exposing the same close mindedness yourself - except that you are all *for* change.

Touch sensitive has it's uses. I'm not against it. I have an iPod Gen 3 and I love the dial pad. It's much much better than the actual wheel for Gen 2/1 iPods.

However, the buttons are completely unusable. And I am a power user. I learn my gadgets quickly. I've had this iPod for over a year, and while I've completely mastered the track wheel (using it from within my pocket), I can not get any better at using the buttons, even when I'm staring at the thing.

Technology should be suited to the user. If we were highly acoustic beings, maybe like bats or dolphins, speakers might be used instead of monitors. However, our sense of vision is far superior to our other senses. In the same vein, our perception of blue is less precise than other colors. Which is why RGB can be encoded as 6-6-5 bits.

Our hands are our most dextrous tools (no pun intended). They are what distinguishes us as humans. Being able to manipulate objects etc. Part of that dexterity is the extremely advanced sensoral perception we have of our hands. By removing clicking, and basically movement, you are depriving my hand of something it is born to accomodate. And you are proposing instead that my brain should get used to the idea of no click, and move on.

Your touch screen technology might be cool, but it doesn't take away from the fact that you are bypassing a sensoral tool that we posess no matter what our brain says.

The sensation of pushing something across a screen (where your finger basically drags on a flat surface) and the actual sensation of pushing a slider forward is different. It's not a question of learning in our brain, it's just different. And my usage patterns, as a power user, tells me that it's better the 'old school' way.

Re:Maybe I'm just oldschool...

[PhilHibbs]

It turns out you are right, but I still fail to see how that conclusion could reasonably be reached from the information in the article. I fully and unreservedly apologise.

oh thats brilliant....

[AviLazar]

no not really, considering my fingers rest on my mouse (ever so lightly). Now a touch mouse? Bad enough that touchpad on my dell laptop always gets hit by the underside of my thumb.
Just make a freaking normal mouse people.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[daveschroeder]

It is not a touch mouse.

As with most stories here, the submission is wrong.

The mouse body rocks, just as Apple's current mouse does. The clicks are audible and tactile, and it is NOT "touch sensitive".

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Knytefall]

Sorry, but this is a rare, correct submission.

"Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don't need two buttons"

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/design.html - also note the picture of the sensors. The site is filled with references to this thing not having buttons. The audible clicks come from "a tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse [that] produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects."

The scroll-ball effects sound obnoxious, and the interface screenshots show no way to turn them off. Hmm. Soldering-iron?

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Anonymous Coward]

What is wrong with you people...

"And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design."

Think of it as an iPod with a laser on the bottom.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[daveschroeder]

Yes, but that's still not "touch sensitive". The submission makes it appear as if the *surface* of the mouse is touch sensitive, which would be a nightmare. It isn't. The mouse body physically moves, and the sensors - whether they're capacitive or microswitches - still need to be actuated at some threshold. The behavior shouldn't be any different than a conventional mouse (insofar as it has a uniform shell, as Apple's current mouse does). As to the effects, I can't imagine there would be no way to turn them off, but I have been surprised before...

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Thu25245]

It clicks mechanically.

The touch sensors are used to distinguish which finger you clicked with.

It makes a clicky sound, has a clicky feel, and won't activate by touch alone. Happy?

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Ryan Amos]

The scroll ball thing is already available on apple's laptops, and let me tell you, once you've used it, you'll wonder why nobody thought of this sooner. Two fingers on the touch pad lets you scroll up and down, side to side. Great for web pages, PDFs, image editing, everything.

And you can turn it off in the Control Panel under Mouse settings. The option just doesn't show up unless your input device supports it.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[eraserewind]

Just make a freaking normal mouse people.

No, we'll make a touch sensitive mouse, and what's more, we'll go to your house and force you to use it.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Apple's mice do travel up and down the touch sensitivity is simply to determine if you want left or right. You will feel the mouse button travel down and click.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[AviLazar]

You will rue this day Steve...you will rue this day.......

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[CapnGib]

Sorry but you are miss-reading that...

from here

"Up to four programmable buttons: full-body button with touch-sensitive technology beneath for left-, right- and Scroll Ball clicking. Force-sensing side buttons."

That "full-body button" bit is the same thing as in the current zero-button mouse. The "capacitive sensors" determine "where your fingers are" ie which finger does the clicking, but the clicking is done via a full-body microswitch for the same tactile feel apple users are used to.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Admiral Ackbar 8]

As long as it can tell that even though my middle finger is resting on the right portion (as most folk's fingers do when they mouse) the actual click came from the left portion!

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Knytefall]

Ohhh... I missed the "full body button" on the specs page. This is a rather clever design then.

Let's just hope the speaker doesn't need to be disconnected manually =)

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Brandybuck]

Just make a freaking normal mouse people.

I've been saying that since they invented the scroll wheel. Last time I went to buy a mouse everything had a stupid scroll wheel on it.

I don't care if you use a scroll wheel or not. But the one-size-fits-all stupidity of the PC market means that I have to have one even if I don't want it. I can't possibly be the only person who doesn't want a scroll wheel, so why are there no scroll-less mice and trackballs on the market? Fry's, Microcenter and CompUSA don't have any. OEMs will sometimes ship a scroll-less mouse with a cheap PC, but the only other ones I seen are stupid children's mice that have whiskers and a tail, or tiny impossible to use laptop accessory mice.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[AviLazar]

Because a large enough percentage want it, a secondary size of the population doesn't care, so that leaves people like you who are in the minority. To mass produce, even on a small scale, is exhorbinately expensive. Would you be willing to pay $50+ for a mouse that has very few features? You can always check to see if you can disable the mouse wheel, so if you accidentally hit it, you will not get a computer reaction.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Brandybuck]

Sigh. Back when I was in sales, knowingly turning away 10% of the market would have been unthinkable. It's the equivalent of turing down a 10% raise. But when it comes to computers, it's considered smart, chic and enlightened to turn everyone away but the herd-like bovines. Why is that?

If I can still buy a $5 floppy drive, why the hell can't I buy a plain vanilla three button mouse?

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[LafinJack]

10% in this case seems awfully high. Why can't you buy a mouse you like that happens to have a scroll wheel and just not use the scroll wheel? My car came with a cigarette lighter, but I don't smoke and it's impractical besides. So I freak out and complain to the manufacturer? No, I just forget it's there.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[LafinJack]

That should be "Do I freak out..."

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Brandybuck]

Actually I've stocked up. Bought three new Logitch Trackmans (original three button version) on eBay. Besides the lack of scrollwheel, it's a damned good trackball. Much better than the newer trackmans. I took one to work as well. Silly of course, since the PS/2 mouse bus will be a thing of the past by the time I use up the last one. Oh well.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[AviLazar]

Thats a flawed statement and you know it. First off, this is not sales, this is pre-sales. We are talking high-end decision making marketing, production, design. These guys look at the bottom line and determine if they will make a profit that they deem reasonable.

You are not turning away 10% of the market, and I highly doubt this is 10% of the market that absolutely abhore the scroll wheel. Maybe there are people who do not use it...but how many are "fed-up" with mice because they can't find a three button non-scroll mouse? I DOUBT very many. But for your assumption, a company is creating a product for 90% of the market. The other 10% are forced to deal with it. Also, where is this statement "it's considered smart, chick, ..." coming from? Just because they are not catering to you and a minority group does not mean they are not running smart marketing tactics. In the end, a company wants to make a profit. The only thing "smart, chick," etc is to make a profit.

As for the reason you can't buy a plain vanilla, three button mouse - maybe because not enough people want it?

But I am feeling altruistic these days. Here is a link to Yahoo Shopping. Sort the list by price, and the top five mice are three button, white and do not have a scroll wheel. I hope you enjoy.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[Brandybuck]

maybe because not enough people want it?

If I can go to may local grocer and buy arugula, I ought to be able to go to my local computer store and buy a plain three button mouse.

Re:oh thats brilliant....

[AviLazar]

If I can go to may local grocer and buy arugula, I ought to be able to go to my local computer store and buy a plain three button mouse.

What does this have to do with our discussion? If I had 5 mod points (haven't seen a mod-point in many months) I would use em all for your last statement. You need to explain it.
But to respond to your arugula. I love Israeli mayoneasse. It is very different then American Mayoneasse. There is a large Israeli food section in a SuperMarket close to me. They do not have what I want. They say they do not have it because there isn't a high demand for it. They are not trying to screw me - they just realize they will incure more costs importing a product that very few people want. But as I posted, there are plenty of links to buy three button, plain white mice. As for, if your local store has a plain three button mouse, I cannot answer that as I do not know where you shop. I know MicroCenter near Philadelphia does.

Mighty Mouse?

[Now15]

Mighty Mouse? That name sounds too cheesy to be an Apple product, don't you think? No pun intended, of course.

Re:Mighty Mouse?

[ciroknight]

I think Apple's starting to like names with the letter "M" in it..

Microsoft.
Mighty Mouse.
Mac Mini.
Money!!

(and now, for the troll who replies "AMD?".)

Re:Mighty Mouse?

[Ilgaz]

Its a name of Unsanity product, Mighty Mouse does change cursors on OS X and yes, I have license :)

http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/mightymouse

After "K" incident, I heard news on web about mighty mouse, not knowing its an actual device I said "OMG Kleptomania" :)

Re:Mighty Mouse?

[biglig2]

And they paid good money for that name too - they licensed it from Viacom who own the rights to the cartoon.

BTW, isn't having a pseudo-pun so terrible that peoples brains automatically skip over it counterproductive?

surely.....

[xao gypsie]

....it must be a sign of teh apocalypse. RUN! before the Christian rights tells us they told us so!!!

Re:surely.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi. I'm with the Christian Right. (Really).

Told you so. =b

(well, maybe not you explicitly, but you've obviously been informed....)

lawsuits!!

[StarvingSE]

Think the creators of this Mighty Mouse will let Apple cash in on their name???

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0161170/

Re:lawsuits!!

[TylerL82]

I think they already did.
At the bottom of http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/ :

Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Re:lawsuits!!

[regcrusher]

At the bottom of TFA, there IS a copyright disclaimer... "Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved."

Re:lawsuits!!

[Schlaefer]

At the bottom of the apple page it says: Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved. So I think they are aware of it.

Re:lawsuits!!

[HTH NE1]

Now that is strange. You'd think that that would reference the trademark, not the copyright. Apple isn't using the Mighty Mouse animated character as the device's mascot (like Time Warner Cable does with Road Runner), only the name, which would be trademarked.

4 horsemen of the apocolypse

[shaen]

1. Apple switches to intel 2. Apple releases 2 button mouse 3. ???? 4. ????

Re:4 horsemen of the apocolypse

[Anonymous Coward]

3. SCO releases a REAL product
4. MS creates linux distro

Re:4 horsemen of the apocolypse

[metamatic]

1. Apple switches to Intel.
2. Apple releases multi-button mouse.
3. Apple releases tablet format computer.
4. Apple releases PDA/phone.

I certainly hope so, anyway.

Re:4 horsemen of the apocolypse

[Dread Pirate Shanks]

I think what you meant to write was:

1. Apple switches to intel
2. Apple releases 2 button mouse
3. ????
4. Profit!

Re:4 horsemen of the apocolypse

[bsartist]

Well, duh...

3. Profit!!!

Re:4 horsemen of the apocolypse

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say that Apple switching to Intel and releasing the 2 button mouse weren't the first of the four... The Red Sox winning the World Series was probably the first horseman.

prior art

[iggymanz]

I think TerryToons should sue Apple's ass off

Re:prior art

[izzylobo]

I think you should RTFA before opening your mouth...

"Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved."

Re:prior art

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't even begin to make sense. Prior art is a reason to not award patents. A cartoon mouse is not prior art for a pointing device invention.

It isn't using any art from the cartoon so it clearly isn't copyright infringement.

It isn't trademark infringement because the pointing device and cartoon are in different industries and no reasonable person could confuse the two.

Re:prior art

[iggymanz]

moving my fingers, you mean? anyway, I was just having fun, didn't know Terrytoons was bought by CBS from Terry in 1955, then CBS films spun off Viacom which licensed Filmation Associates to make those Worst Might Mouse Cartoons Ever in '79, which had artistic skills similar to T & P on Southpark

Re:prior art

[nickd]

... or maybe not:

Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Re:prior art

[iggymanz]

was just joking, TerryToons hasn't existed for 34 years

BEFORE YOU START MAKING THE WRONG COMMENTS

[iibbmm]

The mouse is just like the old Mac mice, the entire shell 'CLICKS' The top is touch sensitive, but only to sense WHAT finger you used to depress the shell. You cannot 'click' by resting your finger on the top of the mouse. The being said, the little wheel looks like it would be a major pain. I'm sure they've figured it out, so I'll be proven wrong, but it would be easy to scroll to the side by accident with a wheel.

Re:BEFORE YOU START MAKING THE WRONG COMMENTS

[Dread Pirate Shanks]

That seems like it would indeed be a huge pain, but not because of the scroll wheel. The article says that the top of the mouse uses "capacitive" technology to detect which finger is clicking, and that leads me to believe that if your finger is in contact AT ALL, it would assume that you're clicking with that finger. So does this mean you have to actually pick up the finger you're not clicking with? It might not seem like much, but it's considerably more work to do that than to just apply more pressure to a button with a conventional mouse. Then again, maybe I'm just lazy. Let's hope they sorted this out though.

Marketing

[ihatewinXP]

I think releasing a multi-button Apple styled mouse is going to be good press for them.

Much better press than they recieved yesterday implementing Intels DRM scheme.

Kinda coincidental release - dontcha think?

Re:Marketing

[Anonymous Coward]

Kinda coincidental release - dontcha think?

No, not really.

Things Steve would NEVER do

[amdg]

Scratch that off the list of things Steve Jobs would never do! First they announce they are going to use Intel CPUs, now this. What's next a Video iPod?

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[hab136]

Jobs: Oh noes! The Reality Distortion Field is fading! Scotty, do something quick!

Scotty: Cap'n! She canna take any more!

Jobs: Khaaaaaaaaaan!

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[Anonymous Coward]

Jobs: Oh noes! The Reality Distortion Field is fading! Scotty, do something quick!

Bones: He's dead, Jobs. And by the way, so am I.

Jobs: Khaaaaaaaaaan!

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[frankie]

Cute joke, but here in the Appleverse Steve's RDF is easily as strong as ever. For the most part Mac users have happily jumped onto the "PPC good, Intel better!" bandwagon.

Personally I wouldn't use a mouse without true tactile clicking, but I must agree that scroll nubbin is mighty cool.

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[hab136]

Cute joke, but here in the Appleverse Steve's RDF is easily as strong as ever. For the most part Mac users have happily jumped onto the "PPC good, Intel better!" bandwagon.

Changing one's mind in the presence of changing facts is usually a good thing. The opposite - sticking hard to one's opinion when circumstances have changed - is called "stubborn".

That said, I hate fanbois that cheer on a system/platform/chipset/sports team disregarding all fact or reason.

Personally I wouldn't use a mouse without true tactile clicking, but I must agree that scroll nubbin is mighty cool.

I'm curious to try it; I may have to swing by the Apple Store. Probably won't buy it, though; I already have a Kensington 2 button + clickable scroll wheel Bluetooth mouse for my Powerbook.

(FYI, also have Linux and Windows machines - I'm not by any means a Mac zealot, and only a recent user)

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[frankie]

But it's not logic, it's the RDF. Right up until Steve took the stage and announced it, most Mac-heads were chanting "PPC good, Intel bad". That it happens to be the right strategic move is irrelevant.

Oh, and it seems the new mouse does in fact have true clicking. It's the current zero-button Apple mouse with a pair a capacative sensors under the shell. Sweet.

I'd rather have it in black or metal though. :)

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[pomo monster]

It does have tactile clicking. The entire surface of the mouse clicks, just like all Apple's mice from 2001 on. The sensor's only used to detect which part of the mouse you pushed on.

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[argent]

That it happens to be the right strategic move is irrelevant.

That remains to be seen.

Re:Things Steve would NEVER do

[Anonymous Coward]

Fair enough.

It's touch-sensitive

[pjcreath]

From the design page:

Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button. Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don't need two buttons -- just two fingers.

Re:It's touch-sensitive

[Anonymous Coward]

Mighty Mouse... detect[s] where your fingers are and predict[s] your clicking intentions

Wow, I hope it's as mystically accurate as those crapola Synaptics touchpads which "think" and "predict" that when I move my finger across the touchpad, I really want to double-click and scroll rather than JUST MOVE THE CURSOR.

What will they do next?

[alvinrod]

First Mac fanatics believed that Apple would never use Intel processors.

Then they said Apple would keep the one button mouse for ever.

It seems like every month now that Apple is turning the world upside down. This certainly seems like something strange and new to me. Does anyone know if anything like this has been done before?

At the rate they're going it makes me wonder what radical type of product or strange new feature they'll come out with next.

Re:What will they do next?

[wormuniverse]

osx "vista"

Re:What will they do next?

[Thu25245]

Then they said Apple would keep the one button mouse for ever.

Well, the standard mouse on all Macs is still the one-button model, and there isn't a CTO option for this new mouse on the online store yet.

This mouse is a $50 separate purchase. If you want a Mac, you'll still get a one-button mouse in the box, at least for now.

Re:What will they do next?

[TheRaven64]

It is important that the default mouse only have one button. This means that developers will design applications to be used by people with only one button. Then, when you are using a touchscreen (perhaps a tablet mac?) or a laptop (has anyone ever designed an ergonomic multi-button trackpad?) then you can still use the UI easily.

They no doubt realised, however, that most power users were buying a multi-button mouse and decided that they wanted a share of that money.

Re:What will they do next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Radical? Like commodity PC components?

Let me be the first (err, second) to say...

[NickCatal]

that hell has officially frozen over.. Not because of the mouse. Rather, because 30 comments on slashdot are about to state that exact fact...

Re:Let me be the first (err, second) to say...

[wild_berry]

Last Guardians of Truth in these confusing days of the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field(TM), the Slashdotters are.

Re:Let me be the first (err, second) to say...

[TheRaven64]

The original article submission started with `It appears that the temperature in hell must be dropping rapidly.' The `editor' saw fit to remove that comment (paving the way for the first 30 redundant posts saying the same thing), but leave in the typo (heals instead of heels, if you haven't noticed). Makes you really want to buy a subscription, doesn't it?

the true mighty mouse

[Ostien]

Here I come to save the day! That means that Mighty Mouse is on the way!

Re:the true mighty mouse

[Spock the Baptist]

Am I to understand that Bill Gates is to be viewed in the roll of 'Oil Can Harry'?

Looks pretty good

[dave-tx]

OK, this is pretty interesting - and about time that Apple came out with a multibutton solution. Provided that it's durable enough to last a few years, this seems like a pretty good product. I wonder how it will feel when clicking on a button that doesn't actually click. I think the tactile feedback is something we've all grown accustomed to.

I'm not thrilled that you need Tiger to get full functionality out of it, but I'm not surprised, either.

I guess my only question is - when is a bluetooth version coming out?

At $49..

[Ga_101]

I'd rather have a Danger Mouse or two...

Re:At $49..

[setantae]

In .uk at least, there was a cartoon called Mighty Mouse about 20 years ago.

The mouse used to wear a yellow jumpsuit and a red cape - see http://tv.cream.org/a-z/m/m2.htm

Re:At $49..

[Soul-Burn666]

At that price i'd prefer a Nyko AirFlo Mouse with air vents and a built-in fan to cool your hand off :)

They also sell air-flo gamepads for all major consoles.

Re:At $49..

[WasylM]

Do I really need another fan hooked up to my machine? It's noisy enough already.

Hacks

[Now15]

I wonder how long till someone does a hack to turn the scroll ball into a fully fledged trackball?

Then you could reserve moving the mouse for... umm... scrolling?

Re:Hacks

[Anonymous Coward]

A better hack would be to have it play certain sounds based on what you were clicking on... A sound for docs, a sound for apps, and a sound (perhaps from Ginger's Greatest All-Girl Hits) to play when clicking on... You get the idea ;-)

A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste!

Looks nice

[Knome_fan]

Even though there are a lot of things I don't like about Apple, they sure know how to make hardware that looks stylish.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the posts by our resident Apple fans who used to explain us in every discussion that having a one button mouse is the only sensible thing to have when it comes to usability, on exactly why now having five buttons is the only way to go.

But as they have already mastered the switch to Intel and the introduction of DRM so well I'm confident they will succeed again.

Tactile feedback?

[coolfrood]

I wonder if the clicks have tactile feedback? They say that the mouse has a speaker which will create the sound of a click, but without the tactile feedback of clicking, it just won't feel right. The whole sound hack seems as cheesy as digital cameras making the fake shutter sound when taking a photo.

Re:Tactile feedback?

[ciroknight]

I disagree, I rather like the idea of it. Hell, if they wouldn't have put that dumb ball in the center of it and allowed me to move my finger up down and around to scroll, it'd be even better. Seems like it'd feel just like the iPod's interface, which I adore.

I always thought clicking was a huge annoyance of my mouse. Not only does it make sound, after a few hours of holding most mice, my hand gets cramped and fingers are exausted. This eliminates two dis-features with one fell swoop.

Now if only they'd release a keyboard using this technology, I'd be set for life..

Won't shut the trolls up yet...

[phillymjs]

...because it's not the standard bundled mouse with their desktop systems. I just checked, and it's not even a BTO option to replace the one-button mouse.

I'd bet, however, that once this has been around for a little while, they'll get manufacturing costs down and it will become the standard bundled mouse.

And when they do that, the smart move IMHO would be for new systems to be configured out of the box to still see the mouse as one-button (for the n00bs), and let those who want more functionality enable the features themselves. Or maybe have the Setup Assistant ask you your preference.

~Philly

Mighty Mouse

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Good grief. It's a retarded (but very pretty) trackball. How about making the ball big enough to use, and do away with the need to drag it all over the desk?

Re:Mighty Mouse

[TomHandy]

Huh? No, it isn't. If they wanted to just make it a trackball, they would have done that. The trackball is used for moving the mouse. This, on the other hand, is for scrolling - with more freedom of movement then just vertical or horizontal scrolling.

Get with the times!

[Mr. Underbridge]

has frozen over and the devil has taken up hockey and ice fishing...

That was two months ago http://www.macworld.com/2005/06/features/intelfaq/ index.php. This month is ice sculpture.

Built-in speaker clicks

[Judge_Fire]

"But I hate touch sensitive input devices which provide absolutely no feedback. "

The mouse provides feedback 'clicks' and 'rolls' using a built-in speaker.

They should, of course, add a microphone for speech recognition. 'Computer...'

J

IBM like nub

[acomj]

My favorite mouse has a nub (pressure sensative Joystick used on thinkpads. They don't make them any more. I liked it for the multi directional scrolling. Glad the idea didn't die completely..

Re:IBM like nub

[FlunkedFlank]

I was thinking the IBM nub too. But upon further reading, as far as I can tell from the description the nub is actually a *wheel*. Almost like a mini track ball.

Re:IBM like nub

[Anonymous Coward]

Like this?

No tactile feedback?

[lastchance_000]

I have a big problem with the lack of real buttons - I much prefer having the feedback of an actual switch to depress. Touch sensitive devices rarely are the right sensitivity (to me, at least) to reject false 'clicks'.

Hopefully, they've managed to get it right, but I'm doubtful. For a company whose products depend so strongly on the mouse, Apple does seem to have a hard time getting that component right.

Re:No tactile feedback?

[Ignominious Cow Herd]

Yeah, and I'm trying to imagine using this thing. Do you have to hover your fingertips above the surface all the time? That would kinda suck don't you think? I normally keep my fingers lightly resting on the buttons all the time.

Even if they had a single real button like the current mouse and determined if it was right or left by which finger was touching the surface, you'd still have to keep all but one finger off the surface while clicking.

I just don't see how this can be a good thing.

Re:No tactile feedback?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a feeling that the touch sensitivity determines when you've exceeded a threshold (ie which button gets stronger touch signal, to coordinate with the click.. so that resting your hand lightly does not trigger a click.

apple while not perfect is smart enough to have thought of that issue already and i'm sure they deal with it in a reasonable way.
i'm curious to try one now.

Re:No tactile feedback?

[Durf]

I'm using one now. The thing has the same sort of mechanical clicky switch as the old "pro" mouse does. If your fingers are all over the thing, all clicks register as left clicks; you need to lift up the extra fingers and *only* click the right side if you want a right click.

Mighty Mouse?

[W3BMAST3R101]

Nice to see Apple has decided to correct their grammar, instead of calling this the iMouse. ;-)

Apple releases multiple button mouse.

[ek_adam]

Are we sure someone isn't releasing an April Fool's joke a few months late?

First the switch to Intel and now this. What's next, the return of the Newton?

Re:Apple releases multiple button mouse.

[m00j]

Duh, but the newton will have a full colour screen, that is wide... and can play videos...

Ah screw it, just add PDA functions to the video iPod that steve promised never to release (and hence is due next week).

Re:Apple releases multiple button mouse.

[UnknowingFool]

Are we sure someone isn't releasing an April Fool's joke a few months late?

That would be Microsoft's style to be 5 months late. [ducks].

Apple's style would be to wait until April 1st to release the joke. Of course somebody at ThinkSecret would have found out about the joke and would release it on March 30. Apple would sue ThinkSecret to keep the joke from coming out.

Stupid Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Only one touch sensitive surface? Laaaame!!

;^)

There's a little feedback

[pjcreath]

It sounds like the clicky noises on the iPod don't do it for you, but they at least did the same thing here. In small print on the side of the design page, it says that "a tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects."

Not quite as good as tactile feedback, but definitely better than none.

Re:There's a little feedback

[Wiwi Jumbo]

I missed that on my first read through....

I wonder if you'll be able to 'upload' your own sounds to it...

Could be interesting. :-)

Re:There's a little feedback

[Have Blue]

That sounds completely retarded and I hope it can be switched off.

Re:There's a little feedback

[Ryvar]

They actually put a speaker in there?

I really, really, REALLY hope they were dumb enough to make that speaker software-accessible from the OS in any way, shape, or form. Because if they did, I know what I'm doing to every display model in every computer store in a fifteen mile radius.

Programmable buttons, too? How about changing buttons on display models to conjure up goatse/lastmeasure?

--Ryvar

Re:There's a little feedback

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite as good as tactile feedback, but definitely better than none.

On the other hand, there'll be no more sounds of mouse clicking that's a dead giveaway for game-playing and internet surfing at work.

The mouse could send tiny electrical pulses to the fingertips to simulate the feel of a click. Then just wait until people start playing FPS's on the mac and enjoy the show.

Re:There's a little feedback

[yellowbkpk]

You sound completely retarded and I hope I can turn you off...

(Retarded is a dumb word.)

Re:There's a little feedback

[JAHA]

What really sucked about the 3G ipod design was that you often want to feel around the interface without looking to find the button you want(especially when driving). The design makes it impossible because feeling around lightly actually clicks the buttons. How they didn't think of this initially kinda blows my mind.

Re:There's a little feedback

[aclarke]

I have a 3G 15GB iPod and get around this by having a cover on it. The cover has holes for the various buttons and as a result I can quickly find the button I'm looking for without looking and without pressing the wrong one.

Yeah that doesn't excuse the slight design faux pas on Apple's part, but at least it mitigates the issue you brought up.

Re:There's a little feedback

[Anonymous Coward]

Dumb is a stupid word...

Re:There's a little feedback

[lar3ry]

Maybe a language option: "La clicque!"

Dialects: "Oy! Ve are scrolling again. And you never write!"

Music: "When I saw her clicking there!"

Apple Events: "WA-HOOO!" (When somebody walks on mouse cord)

Sound Effects: = Mouse Click

Political: "Right! Why must you always pick the right button!" "Don't listen to that pinko tree huggin' button!"

Then again, maybe that's not such a good idea...

Re:There's a little feedback

[zipzap54]

"I was typing a paper, and then I right clicked, and it was like beep beep beep beep beep beep beep... I never should have SWITCHed."

Re:There's a little feedback

[protoshoggoth]

I thought you were joking...so, you're telling me that they're removed the button and replaced it with some touchpad-thingy, and then put a speaker in it so that it sounds like a button is being clicked? Yeah, right. But then I read the design page. Wow.

Re:There's a little feedback

[leighklotz]

>a tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects.
I wonder if I can program it to send morse code?

Re:There's a little feedback

[Anonymous Coward]

All of you kids get offa my internet. Don't make me call your fathers!
e

Re:There's a little feedback

[Durf]

"They actually put a speaker in there?"

No, you're safe. No speaker. I bought one of these things on my lunch break today and am using it now . . . The mouse button clicks because there's a real mechanical switch in there, and there's a little rasping noise from the scroll ball. The only action that doesn's make a noise on this thing is the squeeze-button push.

The design specs page for the mouse doesn't mention a speaker. It gives a sort of silly explanation of the noises, though: "Mighty Mouse even sounds as good as it feels. The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. When you scroll or click, Mighty Mouse produces subtle sound effects based on your actions."

In other words, "it makes clicky noises when you press it."

Re:There's a little feedback

[ratatosk_the_squirre]

But, but.. I'm deaf, you insensitive clod!

Re:There's a little feedback

[Durf]

So I lied. There is a little piezo speaker in the thing.

Monty Burns approves.

[gelfling]

Next up Windows Aqua. A new multimedia flavor of Windows geared to the multimedia afficionado who used to struggle with Apple. Coming from WilliamSoft in 2007.

Ok they are just laughing at us now

[thatguywhoiam]

Anyone else burst out laughing when they saw this?

I mean, I'll reserve judgement until I have actually tried one... but methinks Apple is just mocking us.

You will never get a multibutton mouse!! Never!! You will get a... squeezable... rocking... scroll-locking.... oblong pointer... that folds into.... origami.... white...

Re:Ok they are just laughing at us now

[D_Fresh]

I not only laughed, I linked to your comment in my blog as the perfect articulation of what I was laughing about. Nice.

Mighty Mouse on wheels!

[Willy on Wheels]

Wikipedia has an article about Mighty Mouse.

Ordered one minutes before this article

[rokzy]

it's a single-button mouse with multi-button functionality, so hell hasn't quite frozen over but the weather reports certainly are confusing.

MMMMMM Gunpowder

[Evilhomer2300]

This is a good idea, however, some people are still going to want to use the pill mouse, that one button big thing. If they still are going to use it, will it be supported by Apple, or are they going to just have to bite the bullet? More money for apple maybe? Someone gave their three cents earlier, well, I have 26 of em', all in pennies. Here you go apple, take it and RUN!

Hubris, Apple style

[ctid]

So after twenty years of denying the bleedin' obvious, Apple has responded to crticism that one mouse button is not enough by producing a mouse with no buttons at all?! Way to isolate the rest of the world, Apple!

Re:Hubris, Apple style

[macaulay805]

So after twenty years of denying the bleedin' obvious, Apple has responded to crticism that one mouse button is not enough by producing a mouse with no buttons at all?! Way to isolate the rest of the world, Apple!

..... Think different!

Re:Hubris, Apple style

[ctid]

So after twenty years of denying the bleedin' obvious, Apple has responded to crticism that one mouse button is not enough by producing a mouse with no buttons at all?! Way to isolate the rest of the world, Apple!

..... Think different!

No Switches!

plus it is able to recognise a "rocking" motion.

[tomhudson]

plus it is able to recognise a "rocking" motion.

... Apple's FINALLY going where the money is - interactive pr0n!!!

It's at times like this...

[alanQuatermain]

...that I'm really glad my wife works approximately thirty seconds away from the Apple Store at Yorkdale :o)

-Q

PS: Check whether it's in stock at your local Apple store here.

Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[vectorian798]

Having only a single shell clicking is a bad idea - I mean having a much more clear-cut outline would be more convenient rather than relying on some underlying touch-sensitive detector to figure out where we clicked from.

The mouse may be sleek, it may have the mark of Apple written all over it, but come on to match the functionality of my regular (meaning non-Apple) optical mouse it has to have some clear cut dividers with separate RESPONSE!

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[thatguywhoiam]

Having only a single shell clicking is a bad idea - I mean having a much more clear-cut outline would be more convenient rather than relying on some underlying touch-sensitive detector to figure out where we clicked from.

Actually - my Logitech MX1000 mouse has no discernible area for the right and left mouse buttons, its just a continuous shell that flexes at key points. No one seems to notice this since you don't spend a lot of time looking at your mouse. It's not really an issue.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[randyest]

It's an issue for me. In many cases, including both apps I use at work and FPS games I play at home, I need to press two mouse buttons at once. For example, in FPS games I assign mouse1 to fire/attack, mouse2 is move forward, and mouse3 (middle) is move backward.

I can't run (forward or back) and shoot at the same time with this -- there's only one button "switch" and the "touch-sensitive areas" on top just determine which "virtual button" you were pressing when that switch is closed. I can run and gun using the mx1000 since it really has two button switches (though they are both covered by the same flexible hunk of plastic.)

Seems that there's no middle button at all (unless you can click the trackball/scroller, which doesn't seem to be the case since the site says "two top buttons.") This is unfortunate.

Still, it looks cool. I just wish the "middle" scrolly thing was a button as well, and that one could click multiple buttons at once.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[randyest]

Correction: the scroll ball is a clickable button. But the other two top buttons do in fact rely on a single switch and cannot be both pressed at once.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[FLAGGR]

I believe thats what the speakers are for, to make a distinct click for each button. I'll be turning that off. I'm not trying to justify every of apple's moves, but do you know what your talking about? I have one of their standard one button wireless mice here, right now, and prettending that im right clicking it feels just right. (even if it doesnt work)

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[ckd]

The "scrolly thing" is a button (or a "clickable Scroll Ball" as they call it).

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[BandwidthHog]

Besides the left- and right-click functions, the Scroll Ball clicks down to act as a third mouse button.

I wasn't sure at first, either. But that makes it effectively a five button mouse. I can't believe there's an Apple mouse that I could even consider using. It's still two buttons less than my Logitech MX-500, but it might just be adequate if the scrolly thing works as well as they say.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[Anonymous Coward]

"Seems that there's no middle button at all (unless you can click the trackball/scroller, which doesn't seem to be the case since the site says "two top buttons.") This is unfortunate. "

It IS a button, too.
http://images.apple.com/mightymouse/images/softwar eprefs20050802.gif

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[randyest]

Five? I think it's four. The two side "squeeze" buttons are one in the same (not individually programmable.) See this screen shot and read:

And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design. Click, roll, squeeze and scroll. This mouse just aced the maze.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[thatguywhoiam]

It's an issue for me. In many cases, including both apps I use at work and FPS games I play at home, I need to press two mouse buttons at once. For example, in FPS games I assign mouse1 to fire/attack, mouse2 is move forward, and mouse3 (middle) is move backward....I can't run (forward or back) and shoot at the same time with this...

Well I certainly can't argue that it won't suit your needs, but you must admit that is a very peculiar control scheme. Most people, I think I'm safe in saying, use the keyboard to move in a game and the mouse to aim/fire. I doubt this mouse would pose a problem for that group. As long as the feedback doesn't suck.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[BandwidthHog]

Two buttons under the top shell, two side buttons, and the scrolly thing being clickable is the fifth. At least that's the way I'm reading it, but their site isn't quite as clear on the matter as it could be.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[Trillan]

Just curious -- where'd you read that you can't click them both at once?

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[Jett]

I have a MX1000 and use a similiar config as you in FPS games. You can re-program the mouse buttons if you want using the drivers, there is also a dedicated program for creating different profiles for different games but I can't remember what it's called at the moment.
I have never noticed any problems pressing two buttons at once, you need to press two buttons in KOTOR2 and it works without a problem.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[randyest]

The "two side buttons" are really one, or at least they're treated that way in the driver config screenshot image I linked above. You "squeeze" both to activate a single function.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[randyest]

From the design page:

"Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button. Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don't need two buttons -- just two fingers. Click on the left side to use Mighty Mouse in its simplest, single-button form. Click on the right to access contextual menus within applications and edit, copy, label or download from your mouse."

If there were two mechanical switches to detect which button was pressed, why would they need the two touch-sensitive areas to "detect where your fingers are?" If there's only one mechanical switch to detect a click from the top (excluding the scroll-ball button) and the touch-sensitive areas are used to determine which "button" you're pressing (which side is getting most pressure) then it would be very difficult to differentiate pressing one or the other button versus pressing both. Maybe even impossible because of limitations in the capacitive sensor technology used.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[BandwidthHog]

Oh, really? Damn. That doth surely suck.

Okay, four buttons it is then. I sit corrected.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[danila]

It is unusual, but not peculiar. It was popular in the early days of Doom, when people put a little bit more thought into their layouts (and the default one used arrows). I was taught an ASD layout by a good friend of mine - A-left, S-right, D-back - RMB-forward, LMB-shoot. A great layout.

Later on most games started to provide a default WASD layout as well and the majority of gamers adopted that layout without thinking twice. Today it's considered a standard, but it's not actually the best choice...

The great thing about having forward on the mouse is that you can run and even shoot using only one hand. Mouselook allows you to navigate and pressing the RMB allows you to run. The left hand can be choosing weapons or doing something else. Also, of all actions that you can assign to the RMB, running forward is the optimal one. You are going to do it most of the time and it's stupid to waste a finger on your left hand doing that.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[pomo monster]

The side buttons are just one button that activates when you squeeze the thing laterally. It'd be kind of obnoxious, ergonomically, to have mouse buttons directly opposite each other--you'd always be clicking the wrong one by accident.

So two buttons under the top shell, one "squeeze" button, and the scroll ball. Four. I think I'll stick with my Logitech MX900 Bluetooth, even though it's big and heavy as a cinder block...

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[Gropo]

If there's only one mechanical switch to detect a click from the top (excluding the scroll-ball button) and the touch-sensitive areas are used to determine which "button" you're pressing (which side is getting most pressure) then it would be very difficult to differentiate pressing one or the other button versus pressing both. Maybe even impossible because of limitations in the capacitive sensor technology used.

What I've reasoned - given the fact that people never raise thier index finger when they depress thier middle/ring finger to right-click - the capacitance gages the greater signature of the two zones and interprets it either way. Being that people have vastly different finger sizes and volumes, it would be hard to conceive a system where the hardware can work within a margin across both zones and interpret it as a chorded click.

Re:Single clicking shell is a bad idea

[thatguywhoiam]

Huh. You know, that layout makes a lot of sense. It would take getting used to. I probably won't try it since I have a lot of muscle memory invested in one of these weird things... but I see the logic. Thanks for the reply.

There is feedback. Sort of.

[Anonymous Coward]

It makes sounds for both "clicking" and scrolling.

But yeah, I agree. I wanted to buy the 3G iPod, but the touch sensitive interface seemed really stupid.

I waited and got a mini instead.

Re:There is feedback. Sort of.

[Ashen]

I had a 3G ipod- the touch sensitive interface didn't work very well on it. It was a neat idea, but I really resented when I had to press the play/pause button three times before it finally did what I wanted. The scroll wheel worked perfectly, but the buttons did not.

That of course is why the mini and 4g ipod didn't use the same interface.

hot on the heels?

[illtron]

So "hot on the heels" apparently means "two months later?" Where do you people get your cliches? The Intel announcement was June 6. Today is August 2. Jesus, people. Stop trying to talk like you're some kind of wannabe PR student and submit stories like a normal person. At least you didn't include the obligatory rhetorical Slashdot idiot question? Yeah, that question mark was intentional. While I'm at it, I might as well say that I'm a big Apple fanboy, and I have to let it be known that anybody who buys a mouse for $50 is a god damn idiot, especially when the mouse isn't bluetooth.

Re:hot on the heels?

[wanerious]

Hi! Certifiable idiot reporting for duty! My PowerBook doesn't have Bluetooth, and I'd love the horizontal/vertical scrolling capacity as well as the opportunity to use an Apple mouse, as I am fond of their design and durability. But I'll submit to your sweeping characterization! Thanks for the free judgement!

Re:hot on the heels?

[illtron]

And you'll pay $50 for it? Good for you, you just proved that you've got more money than brains. Maybe Apple should put a Paypal link up on their site so you can donate a few dollars while you're at it, because they apparently need it. For what it's worth, it's not a bad mouse. It's a very good one. It's just worth $30, max. They should also offer a Bluetooth version for $50. It's stupid to release a high-end mouse with a cord and still charge people for "the opportunity to use an Apple mouse" just because they'll pay it.

Technical specs

[dereklam]

For this crowd, the story should have linked to Apple's technical specs page.

"Click" "Squeeze" "Rolls" "Scroll"

[Zemplar]

Is it just me, or does that button look like another biological button that most men already have trouble with? Especially nerds!

Disclaimer: Most of the nerds here probably don't even know what I'm referring to.

Re:"Click" "Squeeze" "Rolls" "Scroll"

[Scrameustache]

most men already have trouble with? Especially nerds!

Try not to confuse your tired clichés.

Nerds don't have trouble with it, they don't get near it.
Now, make a "clever" joke about asking for directions! Ooohh... cutting edge stuff!

Damn! That pig's flyin' low!

[wiredog]

Blizzards in hell, Dubya announces Iraq War A Mistake and apologies, etc. etc. etc.

Run, don't walk

[Gothmolly]

to the neared Apple store so that you can buy one of these. Take your old $50 cordless nuclear vibrating Hello Kitty mouse and throw it away. Buy a new mouse, making sure to discard all the plastic packaging in the nearest landfill. Help ensure that the Chinese government stays in the black by consuming the latest trendware. Then, simultaneously, lord it over your friends that you are a fanboy, and vote for someone who will improve the balance of trade with the enemy, who incidentally is a nation of murderous rogues.

Re:Run, don't walk

[wtmcgee]

Just like the Japanese were taking over America 10-15 years ago?

Re:Run, don't walk

[Gothmolly]

It was 15-20 years ago, and would have, were it not for the Chinese, and the aleration of American policy towards them.

Re:Run, don't walk

[Anonymous Coward]

mine says "Assembled in Malaysia"

As long as hell is freezing over

[sl3xd]

Why chouldn't they mention this when they announced the move to Intel chips?

Would it be compatible with PC?

[ID000001]

If so I might be interested in a touch sensitive mouse too!

Re:Would it be compatible with PC?

[randyest]

Yes. From the tech specs: "Mac OS X (programmability requires Mac OS X v10.4.2 Tiger or later), or Windows 2000 or Windows XP."

Re:Would it be compatible with PC?

[Andy_R]

I'm not surprised that this is PC compatible, I expect Apple to be pushing this little beast in the same way they do iPods - a really well designed and 'cool' piece of kit that has the potential to hook PC users into the Apple fold. If it's good (and let's face it, Apple excel at product design so it really ought to be) then it's another 'gateway drug' to Appleness.

What I do find strange is that it's not wireless, maybe this is because PCs can't be guaranteed to have the same sort of uniform way of talking bluetooth that Macs have?

Ok, some corrections

[daveschroeder]

First of all, the scroll ball is not a "nipple" or an IBM ThinkPad-style eraserhead. It's a scroll ball. Its behavior probably has some intelligence such that there is a reasonably high threshold that has to be crossed before it will start scrolling diagonal or sideways when used for conventional vertical scrolling. Anyone arguing for less functionality here (e.g., vertical-only scrolling - which, frankly, you can probably program the damned thing to do - looks foolish). In fact, upon using it, most people will wonder why in the hell it took Apple - AGAIN - to innovate in something as simple as a mouse.

Second, it is NOT "touch sensitive"! There are real, physical microswitches that have an audible and tactile feature when clicked, just like any other mouse. The mouse body rocks when depressed in a particular direction, and the appropriate button is clicked. I haven't used this mouse yet, but knowing Apple's second-to-none engineering and industrial design, and with knowledge of Apple's current similar Pro Mouse, it will be very unlikely that you can "accidentally" click, or click the wrong button. Or, to but it another way: it would be just as likely as it is on any other mouse. And no, it won't accidentally click if you rest your palm on the mouse. The bottom half of the mouse doesn't respond (or, more accurately, the mouse responds less and less to the same pressure as the point the pressure is applied moves further away from the optimal locations).

Third, yes, it's not wireless. Woo. Expect a Bluetooth version soon.

Fourth, if you think it's ugly, don't buy it. Use any of the other extremely numerous USB and Bluetooth mice you've always been able to use.

Re:Ok, some corrections

[randyest]

Second, it is NOT "touch sensitive"! There are real, physical microswitches that have an audible and tactile feature when clicked, just like any other mouse. The mouse body rocks when depressed in a particular direction, and the appropriate button is clicked.

This isn't quite true. It is touch sensitive:

Scroll Ball that lets you move anywhere inside a document, without lifting a finger. And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design. Click, roll, squeeze and scroll.

You seem to be thinking that there's two buttons (switches) in the shell and, depending on which side of the mouse you press down, one or the other is activated. This isn't right. There's one switch for pressing either of the top buttons. The touch-sensitive areas on the top are used to determine which "button" was pressed.

Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don't need two buttons -- just two fingers. Click on the left side to use Mighty Mouse in its simplest, single-button form. Click on the right to access contextual menus within applications and edit, copy, label or download from your mouse.

That means you can't press both top buttons at the same time, which is the only complaint I have with this mouse besides the lack of a middle button (or clickable track-ball-scroll-thingy.)

Re:Ok, some corrections

[shawn(at)fsu]

You know your a fan boy when you start a defensive argument before anyone starts on offensive point of view.

Just a though.

Re:Ok, some corrections

[randyest]

Sorry folks, I was wrong about the scroll-ball thingy -- it is clickable.

But the other two top buttons still rely on a single switch (and the touch-sensitive areas to differentiate right- and left-clicks) so you can't press both at once.

How much you wanna bet he's already

[crovira]

gotten his lawyers to look into it. (He IS a media mogul already. I'm sure some deal had already been struck if a deal was required)

Re:How much you wanna bet he's already

[SEE]

Right. Just like he made sure to have all his ducks in a row with Apple Records before launching the iPod, iTunes, and and ad campaign that said "brought to you by Apple Music".

smoking weed

[roman_mir]

Time is round. Space is curved. Why should your mouse be linear? - I can see it now, Steve Jobs and a bunch of applers are sitting in a circle, passing the bong and having a design discussion.

Jobs: Guys, can you believe it, my hands are ginormous!

Dude-1: dude! You need a big mouse to fill those hands!

Dude-2: yeeeaahh.

Jobs: Oh. Yes. I can speak. Like that guy. On Star Wars. No. Treck Wars. No.

Dude-3: aaaaah.

Jobs: A mouse. With one. Button. Insane.

Dude-1: but I saw a mouse in my dream. It had two buttons.

Jobs: BLASPHEMER! There is no such number as two.

Dude-1: it was a beautiful mouse. White fur and a long tail. I caught it and squeezed it soooo...

Dude-2: wait a moment. IDEA! Make a squeezible mouse.

Jobs: So. We make a mouse with one, (long look at the first dude,) with one button but it is also squeezible. Oh man, that is like Insanely Great!

Dude-2: dude, you are a craaazy genius.

Jobs: I know. I know.

Global warming...

[mehgul]

... is coming to an end !
This year Apple announces the move to Intel, and the first Apple made non-1-button mouse ! After 21 years of Macintosh ! Not only hell has frozen over, but the cold wave is now reaching Earth !

Mighty Mouse FAQs

[luiss]

• Has a "Scroll Ball", that seems to basically be a tiny trackball built into the mouse. The scroll ball is clickable.
• The mouse has some touch sensitive areas where you traditionaly find left/right mouse buttons. You still click the entire body, but it knows wether your finger was on the left or right when you clicked.
• Two side buttons
• Optical
• Currently wired only
• It has a speaker inside! The speaker produces "sound effects"
• Mac and Windows compatible (seems you need Tiger for fully functionality on Mac)

Re:Mighty Mouse FAQs

[Chanc_Gorkon]

This is just cool. A speaker inside? What's that for? To make the clicky clicky noise??

I wonder if it uses a laser??

Tactile "CLICK!" feedback and the sudo sqeeze

[kriegsman]

It looks cool, but I need to try one in person before I'd buy one. The main "two" buttons are described as "touch-sensitive" in the Tech Specs page, and I'm concerned that they might not actually have the positive "CLICK!" feel that real-button mice do, thereby messing with one of the most well-established tactile feedback loops in my life.

On the other hand, I can see programming the force sensitive side buttons to let add a "sudo" to the mouse action you're trying to perform. Can't drag that file to the Trash because you don't have permissions? No problem -- just squeeze the mouse really hard (hereby christened the "sudo squeeze"!) and try again!

-Mark

Apple Releases Multi-Button "Mighty Mouse"

[cbirkett]

With integrated IBM clit.

From TFA

[Anonymous Coward]

The Button That Wasn't
Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today's multibutton world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do?

Sounds like they let one of their pissed off industrial designers write that part.

Where's the wireless version?

[Scorpion_1169]

Or do we have to wait 10 years for that? Maybe a few weeks after they switch to AMD CPUs?

Ugh...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad that Apple has decided to release something innovative (at least innovative-looking on the outside), but do they have any idea how much of a pain that thing is going to be to use for people with large hands? That tiny button on the top is just mocking me, I can feel it.

Yes and no

[Thu25245]

Everyone keeps jumping to harp on this guy...

It has a mechanical button to register clicks, and touch-sensitive regions to distinguish left- and right-clicks.

So it does actually "click" when you press on it.

Re:Yes and no

[TomHandy]

I think people are jumping on him because he specifically said that the link didn't say "touch sensitive", and in fact he seemed to be jumping on other people and admonishing them to RTFA. Just a lesson that it is not a good idea to bring out "RTFA" if you haven't, in fact, done so.

I'm not sure that the debate was what implementation of touch sensitive functionality was in there anyway. He seemed to be going out of his way to pull out a "nothing too revolutionary here" comment and make a snarky comment about how now he can get a mouse in white (i.e. Apple didn't do anything interesting here).

Less Cord Please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sniff, sniff... But, I wanted a bletooth version! Perhaps Apple will go with wireless USB later however. Sniffle.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[bryan8m]

I have to change the batteries of my Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse monthly; maybe Apple could do it better than that but this thing has extra features which would drain batteries such as sound effects and a bunch of sensors. Also, even the slightest lag is intolerable while playing the most fast-paced games. Otherwise, wireless rocks and I can't wait to see a Wireless Mighty Mouse.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[ApoJooce]

Tell me you are using rechargeables, at least, right? Anyway, this mouse seems great - I also wish it was Bluetooth. I would get one. As it stands, I do not wish to have cords in my current environment, so it will have to wait.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[L0C0loco]

You would think that in this day and age someone would have figured out a way to power a wireless mouse/trackball by harvesting the energy in moving the mouse/ball. Personally, I use a Logitech wireless marble with OS X and am quite happy with the batterylife I get out of my single 1800 mAh AA NiMH battery. And I didn't have to upgrate to Tiger in order to take advantage of all the buttons and programability (check the link in the article and read the fine print for the Mighty Mouse).

Re:Less Cord Please!

[Anonymous Coward]

even the slightest lag is intolerable while playing the most fast-paced games

Games. On a Mac.

*wipes away tears of laughter*

Re:Less Cord Please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's talking about gaming? This is a Mac, here.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[bryan8m]

The mouse is PC compatible FYI.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[generic-man]

So is every Apple USB mouse released in the past -- even the original hockey puck. For $50 you can buy far better PC gaming mice though.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who allowed you to speak in the presence of others?

Re:Less Cord Please!

[Anonymous Coward]

His mommy was on the phone and did not watch what he was doing. Sorry it will not happen again

Re:Less Cord Please!

[Kuro-Bishounen]

I'd say harvesting thermal power from your palm would be more efficient. Maybe some steam vents on the side, give it that retro-industrial look.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, that's an impressive punctuation-to-word ratio you have going on there. The sentences stopped more often than a game of American Football.

Re:Less Cord Please!

[ajs318]

You would think that in this day and age someone would have figured out a way to power a wireless mouse/trackball by harvesting the energy in moving the mouse/ball.

Nice idea, till you remember the first law of thermodynamics. There really isn't enough work done in moving the mouse to generate enough electricity to (1) run the optical sensor {ball mice are less power-hungry, but they still contain two LEDs for the shaft encoders; and given that your hand is over the mouse, use of daylight is hardly an option} and (2) transmit the information to the receiver {it needs a range of the order of a metre}. It can't help power consumption that there is generally a large, electrically conductive object -- your hand -- on top of the mouse. {Not only are you blocking daylight that could have illuminated the shaft encoders, now you're blocking the RF!} My corded optical mouse glides across the desk with almost no effort whatsoever. I would not like to think of how stiff it would be if it had to generate its own power.

A hybrid mouse, with an inertia generator to power the optics and an absorptive transponder {using an RF field from the "receiver", and passing information by drawing more or less power from the source à la RFID} might work; but I wouldn't like to be the engineer on that project, much less a technician. And it probably would require the Tx/Rx coil to be embedded in the mouse mat. Remember those Sparcstation mice which used a special pattern etched into the mouse mat?

All in all, I still think that when it comes to the twin tasks of getting power to the mouse and a signal back to the computer, a piece of wire is still the best way of doing it.

Jaw Dropping?

[Corsican Upstart]

After reading Apple's pages about the Mighty Mouse, I noticed a few interesting things. First of all, it actually has a speaker embedded inside it, to make feedback sounds when you click. I've gotta admit, that definitely sounds like an industry first, but it has to be kind of weird. Like the digital cameras that make camera sounds when you take a picture. Also, there is a Viacom copyright notice near the bottom of the page, so I guess no one's getting sued. But my question is, how will you be able to use this? I mean, if the buttons are touch-sensitive, will you still be able to rest your hand on the mouse buttons when you're not actually clicking, like you can do with "regular" mice? Because it'd be ridiculous if you couldn't, but then I wonder how they got around it...

like Zaphod's Radio...

[kisrael]

Couldn't find the referenece, but does anyone remember one of the Douglas Adam's book where it describes how radios had evolved from super primitive knobs and dials to touchpads, to finally you just need to wave in the general direction of the thing, so you needed to keep maddeningly still in your seat if you wanted to keep listening to the same station?

That's where I'm worried Apple might be going, this mouse is somewhere in the middle of that evolution.

(Seriously, I have to be careful when buying a PC mouse these days, stick with the cheap stuff because the mid-range ones have dozens of little buttons and dials and knobs and there's no place to let your damn fingers rest without hitting 'back' in your browsers turning on your MP3 player or what not...but at least then all the buttons are distinct.)

Apple Unveils Revolutionary New "Tit Mouse"!

[Zemplar]

Now that would have been a good marketing name...

Already been done

[portwojc]

Dumbmentia already had one these designed years ago...

-
StupidaMouse
Some companies make pointing devices with special features -- rollers to help us scroll down pages, extra buttons, you name it. One company in particular (ahem) makes something called an IntelliMouse. What we really need is a mouse with no buttons... so users will stop clicking on things and crashing their systems.
-

http://www.dumbentia.com/pdflib/stupida.pdf

Well sort of :)

Hint: for windows, too

[Tune]

From tech specs:
System Requirements: Mac OS X (programmability requires Mac OS X v10.4.2 Tiger or later), or Windows 2000 or Windows XP.

OK I agree it's typical that Apple rather than Microsoft markets this stuff, but I'm not convinced that there isn't a small company out there thinking goddamnit, Steve stole our idea.

Now from an unrelated source:

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk [Thomas Edison]
 
..That should give Bill a head start...

No bluetooth

[The Limp Devil]

Seems like an interesting moouse, but I'll wait for the bluetooth version. I'm suprised they didn't make one now that all Macs have bluetooth as standard.

Re:No bluetooth

[LJWhorfin]

i do not want a mouse with a cord, period. no bluetooth, no thanks..

Audio feedback - mouse with speaker..

[acomj]

The old "one button" mouse had the whole base as a button. I'm not sure if this does. However it will "click" as it has a built in speaker.

See

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/design.html

First mouse with audio?

[macshome]

So is this the first mouse that has a speaker built into it for audio feedback?

Anyone?

Re:First mouse with audio?

[smiffy1976]

Yep... First and last. It's a terrible idea! Innovative? Yes. So what?

Mice...in. ...spaaaaaaaaace

[Brunellus]

I am reminded of an old folktale: Shortly after the first manned missions into orbit, the American and Soviet space programs faced a problem: their ball-point-pens wouldn't work in a zero-G environment.

The Americans, showing great ingenuity and technical prowess, awarded a huge contract to design, test, and build specialized writing implements for astronauts. The result: a sleek ball-point pen with ink in a compressed-nitrogen capsule, able to write under all conditions.

The Soviets used pencils.

You can keep your SpacePenMightyMouse, Apple. I've got a box of Ticonderogas and a perfectly-useable one on my desk.

Re:Mice...in. ...spaaaaaaaaace

[randyest]

Great story. Too bad it's false.

Mighty Mouse Trademark is owned by:

[Anim8me2]

Viacom.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=r 70udg.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=& p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&e xpr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=Mighty+Mouse&p_tagre pl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search& a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

I would imagine that either Apple has already spoken to/made a deal with Viacom or their lawyers have advised that the use of the name (being in a completely different field) does not present a threat of dilution of trademark.

Re:Mighty Mouse Trademark is owned by:

[SPY_jmr1]

They must have: At the bottom of the page, it notes copyright Viacom. Check it out for yourself.

Hey baby, wanna cyber?

[TeknoHog]

This is the perfect tool for telepornation. Gotta love those dirty-minded Apple engineers.

Mighty Mouse?

[burtdub]

Mouse Customization Menu
Current Settings

Speed: Lightning
Roar: Thunder
Fighting: All who rob or plunder

180 degree change

[Henry V .009]

Mac users couldn't handle two buttons and now they candle a mouse with a zillion nifty features?

Windows

[daviq]

And yet another way to convert Windows losers...er..uh users
Sorry my cough is getting worse and...ehch...worse.

x86? 2 button mice!?

[91degrees]

Perhaps next, Apple will anounce a switch to a Microsoft operating system to make their transition complete.

Some Apple zealots will still insist this is better than an equivalent PC:)

for those who were wondering

[minus_273]

"Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved."

The cartoons may be public domain, but the name i guess is not. I wonder if the ads will have the "Here i come to save the day !" theme

You still need to click and it does not rock!

[luiss]

There is no rocking action in this mouse!
You click just as you do now in the regular single button mouse, only now, thanks to the touch sensitive areas, it knows if you clicked with a finger on the left or the right side of the mouse!

Re:You still need to click and it does not rock!

[argent]

What about chording? What if you press left and right at the same time (eg, 3rd button emulation in X11).

Re:You still need to click and it does not rock!

[ToastyKen]

Um, that's only a problem if you NEED 3rd button emulation. I'd imagine that, as with most scrollwheel mice these days, middle-click would be mapped to scrollball click by default. No need for chording.

Re:You still need to click and it does not rock!

[argent]

Um, that's only a problem if you NEED 3rd button emulation.

That's not the only use for chording. A lot of window managers and old-school X11 applications use chording to give you an extra 2 or 3 buttons on the mouse. Also, don't forget about the guy who posted about his fire-while-running problem in his video-game.

Mods, you meant "Disinformative"?

[Scrameustache]

Now, I could be wrong. But RTFA, nowhere does it say touch sensitive.

Sheesh! FTFA:

You'll Really Click
Touch-sensitive technology under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where you're clicking, transforming your sleek, one-button mouse into a two-button wonder.

Re:Mods, you meant "Disinformative"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you please define what you mean by "FTFA"

Preferably by adding it to the Urban dictionary.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FTF A

Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

seems all those slashdotter's who said microsoft patenting everything would lead to a lack of innovation was wrong Macintosh proved you all wrong !?!

Apple rips off a good idea, again

[Anonymous Coward]

The only real innovation in mouse design recently is the scroll wheel/3rd button, and that's been around for a long time now. ...and it's WIRED?!? Paging Mr. Van Winkle! Particularly since Apple's pushing Bluetooth peripherals so hard...

Sorry you have to...

[RobL3]

read all the way down to the -third- whole sentance which reads "And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design. " Jeez.

What? A multi button mouse for mac?

[Anonymous Coward]

But won't that be CONFUSING to the users?? Or was mr jobs wrong all this time and the users weren't really as dumb as he thought?

Apple always has a certain flair

[dogmatixpsych]

Leave it to Apple to release not just a two-button mouse, but a mouse that completely revolutionizes mice. (Note: I do not own a Mac - okay I do, a Centris 650 but that doesn't count). It certainly won't be long before we start seeing imitations of this mouse, which is a good thing, but again it shows that Apple is consistently a leader in pc innovation.

Re:Apple always has a certain flair

[DaveCBio]

Please explain how this "completely revolutionizes" mice. If this was released by anyone else most people would call it a gimmick.

Addendum

[daveschroeder]

Click sensors are indeed INSIDE the mouse, but not on the surface of the mouse. The mouse body must still physically be depressed to actuate the sensor. Regardless of whether it is a microswitch or a capacitive sensor, the effect is the same: the mouse must be depressed, a threshold must be crossed, a click is audibly heard and the corresponding action occurs.

Re:Addendum

[arbitraryaardvark]

The mouse body must still physically be depressed to actuate the sensor.

I think my mouse body might be physically depressed. It hasn't been getting any work done lately, lies around, clicks on pr0n and slashdot a lot, drinks too much.

http://www.toonopedia.com/mightym.htm

My review

[Anonymous Coward]

Less buttons than a Logitech. No Amiga support. Lame.

And you can even lick it.

[crovira]

Sadly, I think you're right. Luckily for me, I know what you're talking about.

Anatomy 201 (sex ed, 'the clitoris') guys. Uh guys?

Re:And you can even lick it.

[Kermalius]

no, microsoft had the clit mouse, this is the tit mouse.

I'm mean come on.. squeeze sensitive?

Yeah...

[Captain Perspicuous]

But, do they make a multi-button mouse? Oh..

Should have been done in software..

[Overzeetop]

..but then everyone could have it, I guess.

You see, that whole "360 degree movement" think is a trckball. If you have a mechanical moune, there's one on the bottom of it. AutoCAD uses a much better way of accessing this type of pan function: you click-hold the middle button (or scroll wheel) and move your mouse. Far more accurate than track balls. Want to zoom, too? That what the scroll wheel is for.

I happen to have seven buttons on my Logitech MX900 mouse (okay, the right and left "buttons" are just pressure sensitive areas on the mouse top, with nice tactile feedback sensors below. I use the r/l buttons and the scroll wheel. I never touch the others, and have had to teach muself to be careful not to move my hand for fear of inadvertent clicks. I don't feel a desire for r/l movement of the wheel, as it tends to interfere with my click-only accuracy of the scroll wheel (I've tried it).

Apple - you've made a beautiful, minimalist piece of hardware. Sadly, it would have been better implemented in sofware with a standard 3 button mouse. But then, it wouldn't have been "innovative", would it?

A sure sign of the apocolypse

[CrazyTalk]

Multi-button capable mice from Apple? Whats next, Intel processors? Oh wait...

Just great...

[Gadzinka]

Just great, touch sensitive mouse, where you have to hold fingers in the air instead of resting them on the buttons. This adds a whole new depth to RSI.

Robert

Re:Just great...

[rokzy]

>you have to hold fingers in the air instead of resting them on the buttons

no you don't. get a clue.

Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

> It appears that the entire surface is touch-sensitive

I wonder if they can make it with other designs...

Ergonomics?

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only one who finds Apple mice to be a pain in the wrist? It takes only a few minutes with a pill mouse before my wrist aches for my Microsoft mouse from work. Fortunately, I can get around OS X pretty well with the keyboard alone, but why keep this design?

Also, the clicking? Yeah, it's pathetic. The weight of my hand often clicks on my behalf and/or the mouse unclicks during a long drag and drop.

Just make a real mouse, please. And, don't get me started on the keyboards.

Nub, nose, scrollball...

[libra-dragon]

I didn't see this in the Apple specs, but I hope that scrollball on top is optical. I can totally see this getting gummed up like my mouse I'm using right now.

Only $49?

[ceeam]

Well - for a piece of Apple hardware that seems to be reasonably hi-tec (heck, the whole mouse is just one large erogenous zone apparently) - I wonder how reliable/sensitive/durable is that thing. Less interesting Logitech mice cost more.

it has a tiny speaker inside

[jeffehobbs]

from http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/design.html:

Now Hear This
Mighty Mouse even sounds as good as it feels. The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects.

...although unlikely, I hope there's some way to get sound into it; it would be really nifty if the sounds were customizable.

~jeff

The mighty nouse

[Anonymous Coward]

wow...what marketing genius came up with that...

somehow they managed to make a name worse than Vista

Next month

[coolGuyZak]

She's taking a trip to Canada to learn curling. Turns out that the hotel I was going to stay at was inadvertently double-booked. Satan shaid that she'd hapily trade the suite for my soul... I'm still deciding. I may go for the "share the bed" option, instead. I mean, a weekend with Elizabeth Hurley would be hot.

Okay, I'm a Mac Loyalist, But Even I Gotta Say

[autosentry]

. . . that is the smarmiest ad copy they ever wrote. Especially since they owe us a better mouse after that hockey puck one gave everybody carpal tunnel.

what about laser tracking?

[JWeinraub]

i see it has optical, but ever since i got my laser mouse from logitech, i'm not going back to traditional optical. ever.

I'm not impressed

[isecore]

...yet

It's a cool idea and I like some of it, but the shape and low contour is still something that will cause cramps from long-time use.

In my field of work I spend a lot of time using Apple mouses from the last 2-3 years, and the low shape and oblong shape is horrible.

Gimme my MX1000 any day of the week.

In the future it needs to be ONE BUTTON(touch mat)

[Anonymous Coward]

In the future it needs to be ONE BUTTON (touch mat paradigm)

the flexible rollout mat kept in a pouch in 2012 will, upon being placed on a table like a placemat understand the NORMAL mac 1983 paradigm :

tap, double tap , drag, but it will not be pyschic and know WHCH FINGER you are dragging the curser around with or tapping with.

Therefore in 2012 everything will need to be reprogrammed back if it ignorantly and foolishly requires MULTIPLE fingers instead of one to accomplish what the ingenious mac os achieved originally.

Steve Jobs offerred a two button mouse with the NeXT Step workstation but wisely made both buttons default to the same exact action unless a user overrode the meanings, and could do so arbitrarily, so that right or left hand was comfortable.but picking up one was enraging when a leftie- programmed it. or a vis versa.

Alll i know is one fact..... in the future ONE mouse button is the only rational way.

linux people promoting 5 button mice or 3 button mandatory (Apple's aquired 15 thousand dollar program SHAKE will not run without 3 buttons!?!?) just do not understand GUI design.

PowerBook!?

[pergamon]

Now all they have to do is make the button-bar underneath the touchpad on the PowerBooks be touch sensitive to allow for multibutton there too.

Re:PowerBook!?

[NardofDoom]

Or they could make it so a two-finger touch+click = right click. I have third party software that enables two finger scrolling and that feature is more of a timesaver than the scrolling.

Re:PowerBook!?

[Mechcozmo]

They already have one.

http://www-users.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de/~razzfazz/is croll2/

Re:PowerBook!?

[youknowmewell]

Now all they have to do is make the button-bar underneath...the PowerBooks be touch sensitive to allow for multibutton there too.

And which digit do you plan on using to press those buttons? I'm afraid to ask about double-clicking...

Re:PowerBook!?

[paz5]

I always thought it would be nice to have the entire front of the power/i book to be touch sensative. I find my self wishing i could define an area to the right to control volume and skipping forward or back in vlc, and something on the left to go forward and back between programs. Allowing full control over the size / positioning of the areas and the function could yeild some interesting mousing...

Re:PowerBook!?

[pomo monster]

Yes, YES, YES!! Such a good idea. I wonder if anyone who works at Apple reads Slashdot.

What's the third-party software you're using to make this happen?

Re:PowerBook!?

[MBCook]

I'll just point out that I suggested this back around January/February when I just got a new Mac. I think it's on my website too.

It seems like it would be so simple to put one button under each side of the bar. If you turn it on, you have left and right buttons. If you don't, it acts as one big button. Works for everyone. Now if they would just implement it.

Re:PowerBook!?

[SmittyTheBold]

Well, this new mouse is one big click surface; it determines the location of the finger pressing down and interprets it as the appropriate click. It would be a simple matter to do the same with the Powerbooks by adding a little trackpad circuitry to the button itself. In fact, I bet Apple will take that approach in the next PowerBook revision.

Re:PowerBook!?

[youknowmewell]

Allow me to give you a hint.

Imagine you are using your laptop on, you guessed it, your lap. Apple was kind enough to install a mousepad on the underside of the laptop. The problem I pose is how to actually "utilize" that mousepad. "Which digit" I asked.

The ladies probably won't understand.

Re:PowerBook!?

[MustardMan]

I think it'd be cool to use a PDA-style touchscreen on those big wasted areas to the left and right of the trackpad, so you could have a user customizable touch button area. It'd suck for real typing, because of having no tactile feedback, but be pretty damn cool for other applications.

Re:PowerBook!?

[Anubis350]

he/she/it's prolly using iScroll2. I use it also, however it may not work with your powerbook, as you need specific touchpad modules to allow the driver to work. They show you how to check on the site.

Re:PowerBook!?

[Echnin]

Wasted areas? Where do you put your arms when you're typing?

This'll do wonders for tech support...

[NotWulfen]

The saving grace for supporting clueless users on macs was that there was only 1 button for them to click with, now they can be just like clueless PC users and constantly right click when you tell them to left click, but not only that, they'll have an excuse as to why they did it! "my mouse doesn't have buttons, it just has a giant touch sensitive surface!"

Re:This'll do wonders for tech support...

[moo083]

You can set it up in the first place for them to be a one button mouse. This is cool for us IT people because it means that when we go there, we can make a 2 button while we are there and when we leave set it to 1 button mode again.

Re:This'll do wonders for tech support...

[NotWulfen]

I'm thinking more set it to 1 and just leave it, can't trust users to know right from left, I'm surprised some of the people I've had to support are even capable of using a computer.

Re:This'll do wonders for tech support...

[Overzeetop]

Yeah, no simple "right click on the file". It'll have to be move your cursor over the file name and press firmly, somewhere on the right side of the mouse.

Signs of the Apocalypse

[l33t-gu3lph1t3]

Within one month we've seen Apple announce a switch to PC x86 architecture and now a multi-button mouse...

so that's what, 2 signs of the apocalypse this month alone. Next thing we know, Microsoft's going to announce an open-source security model, MySQL is going to announce a version of MySQL 5 that actually implements all the features they claimed it would, Dell's goig to release an AMD-based system, and the slashdot forums will transcend its "geek echo chamber" state and become a place of insight and open-minded discussion!

FPS Possibilities?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if using the trackball to move and the mouse to aim would be a viable technique in FPS's?

Or vise versa?

I wonder if/when Logitech will market their version...

What the...???

[oliderid]

I think we should start a petition. We should ask Apple to fire the manager working on their mouse since 1984.

He simply doesn't get it.

I work on both PC and Apple. I "hate" Apple's mouses. The worst so far was the first i-mac mouse. Before beeing a design master piece, it has to be used on a daily basis.

Two buttons and a wheel, that's all we are asking. damn it!

Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gaming?

[SilentChris]

I think the design will be ok for basic desktop work (not so sure I'm keen on the ball), but as a gamer I question it. When I click, I want tactile feedback that it's been registered. Also, anyone who's played with anything touch-sensitive knows that it's never quite as reactive as as a regular mouse.

I don't question that'll be fine for the average user, and I know the Macites will blast me with "get a gamer's mouse then" (I have one for my Mac), but anytime Apple leads the rest of the industry tends to follow. Hopefully Apple led well.

Mighty usable?

[Itchy Rich]

According to the pictures I'd seen so far it doesn't seem to have any buttons, or any markings for buttons, or where they might be.

I've got my flame-retardant jumpsuit close to hand just in case, but... this does seem like more style at the expense of actual usability. You have learn where the buttons are in the same way as Das Keyboard, but with this mouse you first have to realise that there *are* buttons.

Very stylish. Nil point for usability.

Re:Mighty usable?

[rokzy]

where do you think they might be? have you ever seen a 2-button mouse?

if not, and you then buy this mouse without looking at the website or documentation then I guess you'd have to either work out that the buttons are at the front and on the left and right using either logic or some trial-and-error method.

then once you've located the buttons I supposed some sort of note is needed to remember, either a post-it stuck to your monitor or just a mental note if you're feeling particularly non-retarded.

Re:Mighty usable?

[Itchy Rich]

then once you've located the buttons I supposed some sort of note is needed to remember, either a post-it stuck to your monitor or just a mental note if you're feeling particularly non-retarded.

Sure, if you buy the mouse you can read the bumf on the packaging, figure it out, then your done. That's not the be-all and end-all of situations though.

What happens when you use someone else's machine at work, or your gran tries to use your iBook, or the cute girl you pulled last night tries to read her email the morning after, or (like my mother) you're trying to teach kids with learning difficulties how to use IT equipment. The situations where something like this could be an unnecessary pain the butt are endless.

All it takes is a little thought.

Re:Mighty usable?

[rokzy]

is it really so hard to NOT buy it and/or NOT associate with people-who-don't-understand-computers-but-need-to- use computers-right-now-and-don't-have-their-own-compu ter-and-don't-know-how-to-ask-how-to-use-the-mouse -and-don't-know-how-to-use-the-keyboard-instead?

if you're already panicing over possible mouse-confusion situations I think you should avoid the mouse and buy some meds instead.

Re:Mighty usable?

[Itchy Rich]

is it really so hard to NOT buy it and/or NOT associate with people-who-don't-understand-computers-but-need-to- use computers-right-now-and-don't-have-their-own-compu ter-and-don't-know-how-to-ask-how-to-use-the-mouse -and-don't-know-how-to-use-the-keyboard-instead?

It's very easy for me not to buy this product. The issue is really one for Apple. If they ever want to break out of the "computers for designers" stereotype then they're going to have to take usability for the masses (including the less computer-literate) seriously. They've made a bunch of good innovations in this field, but this mouse is not one of them.

Re:Mighty usable?

[rokzy]

Apple's single button mouse is the easiest mouse on the market. this is in addition to that one, NOT a complete replacement, so why is it a problem for them that you don't like this particular one?

Re:Mighty usable?

[Itchy Rich]

Apple's single button mouse is the easiest mouse on the market. this is in addition to that one, NOT a complete replacement, so why is it a problem for them that you don't like this particular one?

You state that Apple's single-button mouse is the easiest to use on the market. I'd actually debate that point, since the 'button' doesn't look like a button. I've watched plenty of people try to press the little grips at the sides before figuring out that the entire top surface of the mouse is clickable. Do you have any research to back up your assertion, or is it just your opinion?

My opinion is that Apple give greater weight to their graphic designers than to their UI designers. It's a perfectly viable way of doing things. They're used all the time by people who like aesthetics and 'cool', for example Hollywood prop departments.

I'm just saying that if they want to increase their share of the home and business markets they need to broaden their appeal, even if it means trading a bit of visual impact for a bit of accessibility.

Re:Mighty usable?

[rokzy]

>I'd actually debate that point, since the 'button' doesn't look like a button

so what, it takes 5 seconds to realise that and then you know it for the next 50 years.

anyone who is too stupid to work out an Apple mouse is too stupid for computers.

Re:Mighty usable?

[Itchy Rich]

so what, it takes 5 seconds to realise that and then you know it for the next 50 years. anyone who is too stupid to work out an Apple mouse is too stupid for computers.

Once you've done that you have to figure out how to manipulate on-screen elements using a single mouse button. This can be done in the following ways.

• Holding down keys while you click. This is no longer a single, simple click, but requires two hands and prior knowledge.
• Holding the button for different lengths of time. This requires motor co-ordination that not everyone has. It also requires prior knowledge.
• Double, or triple clicking. Same as above.

I've yet to see a mouse interface that didn't have flaws, but the two-button "right-click for context menu" is actually a very good solution. It allows you to manipulate objects in any number of ways armed only with one piece of knowledge and a single finger.

There's a huge variety of people out there who want to use computers for a huge variety of reasons. They should have the freedom to do that.

Re:Mighty usable?

[mooniejohnson]

... You have learn where the buttons are...

One button is one half of the mouse, the other is the other half. The scroll "wheel" is, for all intents and purposes, the dividing line. You can click the scroll wheel, and you can squeeze the mouse for a fourth button. You don't have to know exactly where the buttons are, since all but the scroll wheel have such a large "click area."

Re:Mighty usable?

[Itchy Rich]

One button is one half of the mouse, the other is the other half. The scroll "wheel" is, for all intents and purposes, the dividing line. You can click the scroll wheel, and you can squeeze the mouse for a fourth button. You don't have to know exactly where the buttons are, since all but the scroll wheel have such a large "click area."

But how would you know? You either have to read the instructions (how many computer users read the instructions?) or you have to use experience (missing the entire point of accessiblity) or you have to use trial and error, which as anyone who's used a computer knows can end up with deleted files, mistakenly sent emails, etc. etc.

Again, my point is not that this mouse is no good. It has a bunch of good features that I would use. However, as someone who 'does' usability for a living, this product is something I would never allow out of my department.

Seriously, all it takes is some lines on the mouse, or some lights under the surface, or something to fix the button location issue. For other issues, see other posts in this tree.

Re:Mighty usable?

[Anonymous Coward]

None of those techniques are technically necessary to use a mac. Even opening a file in the finder can be done by selecting the file and choosing File - > Open. I believe this is the freedom to use computers for a huge variety of reasons you speak of.

Not too surprising...

[macserv]

Steve Jobs' *other* computers, the black, magnesium, sometimes-cubical NeXT systems, had 2-button mice. Apple brought the NeXT OS to the Mac, but not the mouse to drive it.

I can't wait to give one of these a shot; I hope it can replace my Logitech at home. It's not all about buttons... the Logitech's shape is so damned comfortable.

Just Like Carl Rove

[ihatewinXP]

Its all misdirection.

Now no matter what you think of the situation with Mr. Rove - it is kind of obvious that as all that was about to blow the next day Bush nominates Roberts for the Supreme Court and all of a sudden you have to pry trhough the paper to find mention of it....

Apple had a hot product / topic that they were sitting on and is using it to change what the press is talking about. Absolute marketing genius if you ask me (but then I guess Apple is kind of known for that).

I mean honestly, as I read the /. story yestreday I could almost feel the Apple marketing people (and hell maybe even Steve) reading and taking notes. We are the technocrati - our opinions shape many users. Would Apple have us talking about how they finally capitulated and brought the multibutton mouse to the unwashed masses or Palladium DRM that will lock down your computer.

How Rich!

[sysadmn]

So the company that stayed with a one button mouse because "users might get confused" releases a multi-button mouse with built in track button and squeezable sides? Worse yet, the side action is programmable? Pretty ironic.
What's next, the Danger Mouse, where squeezes will randomly deliver electric shocks?

Re:How Rich!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, this is an option. The iMac, eMac, and powerMac systems are still delivered with a one-button mouse.

My mom uses Windows, and she still hasn't figured out the right mouse click. And she has no need to. If she presses it in error, she panics.

Re:How Rich!

[vorpal22]

If you read their website, you'd realize that this mouse falls entirely in line with Apple's philosophy and makes complete sense: it behaves like a one button mouse by default, and multi-button functionality can be enabled by users that require it. This provides maximum usability in the default scenario, but offers complete flexibility to knowledgable users.

This philosophy, IMO, is why applications like Photoshop also succeed. As a Photoshop newbie that doesn't want or need to learn how to do anything other than the basics, I find that by design, I can go into Photoshop and do what I need to do in a matter of seconds without digging through a nest of convoluted menus. The simple and most readily desired features are at the forefront where they should be, and the complexity is hidden.

Re:How Rich!

[Skyfire]

Your mom is a moron. I mean this quite seriously. Plenty of people have managed to figure out how to coordinate 3 pedals on a car while moving a stick to change gears. Even more have managed two pedals with one foot. I can see maybe a 5-button mouse confusing some people, but 2? Seriously folks, learn some coordination and usage skills.

Re:How Rich!

[bogie]

I agree, this makes no sense. Before more than one button was too much to think about and now you have 50 fuctions poured into one mouse?

I predict it like many other touch sensitive devices its going to be annoying to use. Quick, put you hand on your mouse and then move the cursor around. Chances are you just right or clicked on the "Mighty Mouse"(btw can you can trademark infringement?). Who the hell wants to deal with that? Oh and I'm sure its going to be a blast when your on a site that has huge horizontal margins. Have fun trying to scroll just up and down as your page keeps creeping sideways.

Re:How Rich!

[eclectic4]

"So the company that stayed with a one button mouse because "users might get confused"...

Actually, there was another reason that was more important, and had a great effect. It was to force developers to create one-button GUIs, which forced ease of use.

Re:How Rich!

[Dirtside]

I'm looking forward to the DRM-enabled Mickey Mouse. ;)

Re:How Rich!

[BigZaphod]

It isn't about coordination. It is about understanding. Computers don't follow the usual mechanics that older people are used to. A manual transmission vehicle has real parts that make concrete sense without needing to understand the actual principals involved. You could think about the gears and the reasons why in concrete terms after only a few minutes of explanation and simply "feel" your way to proper usage. Shifting to 2nd always produces the same results regardless if you are driving on pavement or gravel.

Computers are not so simple when approached in this way. Clicking in the upper left corner of the screen does totally different things depending upon what little graphic blib happens to be there at the time. Most people rely on intuition in the absence of knowledge and they did not grow up thinking about virtually any of the abstract concepts that computers are based on.

It isn't just computers. Telephones are equally mysterious to some older people - it is just that the interface is so easy to use, it makes it easy to forget about how it actually works because you don't need to know. On the other hand, my grandma always thought that the paper actually went through the phone lines with a fax machine. She's not an idiot, she just hadn't been exposed to the kind of thinking required to "get" a fax machine. She grew up on a farm before the days of indoor plumbing. There is no analog to a fax machine in her life history. In fact, I don't think she's ever even touched a mouse - not the plastic kind, anyway. The computer is so foreign to her that I'm not sure she'd even know where to begin if she tried. Video screens, to her, are one-way communication devices (aka TV). A keyboard should have heft and make loud banging sounds as little hammers hit paper. A mouse looks like a paperweight. Everything about computers is so far outside her world it's spooky.

My mom, on the other hand, was only introduced to computers when I became interested in them. She didn't have them in school and the early computers didn't even have mice anyway. She has some trouble with the mouse and the right button gives her the willies at times, but she gets it well enough to do her emailing. She doesn't know how any of it works, though, so while she uses the computer she's always on edge. Frankly I'm surprised she bothers with it at all, but I guess email is compelling enough to force her to face that fear of the unknown. She's not stupid just because the mouse and computers in general are still a bit scary to her, she just isn't used to that kind of thinking having never had to do it before. She grew up on a farm and, until recently, every job she ever had had no need for computers. She went maybe 40-45 years of her life basically never touching them and suddenly you expect her to understand the intricacies of the mouse overnight? Sure she's been using computers for a few years now, and she's still a little skittish, but that's life.

People, until maybe my generation, did not expect to learn their whole lives. They would learn tons of stuff while younger and then, in their 20s, they mostly just set into a life pattern and proceeded from there not needing to learn tons of new technology or ways of thinking each day. 20 years of that can certainly set a person firmly within certain patterns. It's tough to break that sort of thing.

Re:How Rich!

[alernon]

I'm assuming you're being funny, but just in case. The mouse defaults to a one button mouse. The "button" is actually a touch sensitive device, that if enabled, can tell the difference between clicking on the left or the right. To get the functionality, it looks like you'll have to enable it in your preferences.

It's a win-win. First time users get the simplicity of the one button mouse, and advanced users can enable more powerful features. It's not revolutionary perhaps, but I think it's a neat idea.

Re:How Rich!

[GoofyBoy]

>this mouse falls entirely in line with Apple's philosophy and makes complete sense: it behaves like a one button mouse by default, and multi-button functionality can be enabled by users that require it.

So if I sit in front of a user's machine with this mouse for the first time I have to figure out if its programmed or not?

What sort of nightmares will occur with help-desk support now, when before they apparently have loads of problems with explaining left-right clicking? Now you have to guess/figure out what their mouse is programmed?

Re:How Rich!

[pomo monster]

"Plenty of people have managed to figure out how to coordinate 3 pedals on a car"

In other words, people learn exactly as much as they need to in order to do what they want to do. That goes for computers as much as for cars. It's not moronic at all.

Re:How Rich!

[tgibbs]

So if I sit in front of a user's machine with this mouse for the first time I have to figure out if its programmed or not?

Oh, horrors! I can think of three possible solutions.

1) Don't use somebody else's account. In OS X, each user is intended to have a separate account. Program the mouse in your account to work the way you please.

2) Bring up the control panel and look to see if it's programmed.

3) Experiment! Press the right side of the mouse and see what happens. I doubt if the rightful user programmed it to erase the hard disk on right click.

Note that this is potentially a problem any time you sit down at a computer with a multi-button mouse. Most multibutton mouses come with software that give the user considerable freedom to modify what each button does.

Re:How Rich!

[tgibbs]

I predict it like many other touch sensitive devices its going to be annoying to use.

Yes, what does Apple know about touch sensitive devices like...er...the iPod?

Re:How Rich!

[imsoclever]

Oh wow what a well thought out post you've created.

First of all you haven't actually used the mouse, so you're complaining about problems that you THINK the mouse will have. Do you honestly think that no one at Apple while designing or testing the mouse thought about these extremely obvious issues like accidental Clicking and unintentional horizontal scrolling?

And where are these 50 functions you're talking about? I see a 4 button mouse with a scroll ball, which is really no different then the tilt wheel that Microsoft puts it its mice.

If you're not going to RTFA you could at least read the comments posted before you, because all the points you just brought up have been brought up 100 times before, most of them in less of a rambling manner.

And for the record, as stated before, Apple credits viacom for the Mighty Mouse trademark.

Re:How Rich!

[Photar]

By default the mouse acts like there is only one button. So at first it will just function like it has a new scroll ball.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[Is0m0rph]

I agree. This mouse is a terrible idea for games. I wouldn't want to use it at work for programming either. My 2 button with a clickable scroll wheel optical mouse would be hard to give up for this mouse.

wires suck

[Milkyman]

they gone from wireless back to tangled cords?
that's a step backwards, people. Its the same reason why i won't try the Vertical Mouse.

Mighty Mouse works with Windows 2000 and XP

[Johnny Mozzarella]

I'm glad to see Apple including cross-platform support for their products. Now how about that iSight camera Steve?

Re:Mighty Mouse works with Windows 2000 and XP

[The Lynxpro]

"I'm glad to see Apple including cross-platform support for their products. Now how about that iSight camera Steve?"

I myself have had hope Apple would gain some sense and market Apple-branded Firewire (400 & 800) cards for the PC market. An "Apple white" Firewire (or even Bluetooth) card could've commanded a premium from the casemodder market and made Firewire more viable in Windowsland, but unfortunately, Apple prefers to give those monies instead (by forfeiture) to Adaptec and Belkin by their nonparticipation.

Re:Mighty Mouse works with Windows 2000 and XP

[demon]

My iSight works just fine on my Linux box - too bad there's not a video enabled SIP client to use it with (GnomeMeeting does H.323 though).

No PS2 port version?

[NineNine]

What's up with Apple always having to be bleeding edge? No PS2 port style mouse? I saw the functionality, saw the price, and was all set to buy one before I saw... hmmm... no PS2 connectivity. Do they do this just to sell more hardware? Do all of their Consumer Zombies really buy a new machine every year or two?

Re:No PS2 port version?

[j0kkk3l]

Nice troll you are, my little friend. But i'll bite.

All Macs ship with USB-Ports for connecting mouse and keyboards since 1998. Macs never had PS2, they had ADB.

PCs are shipping now for years with USB standard ports.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[Anonymous Coward]

didn't they start putting USB ports in PCs around 2000 or so? thats a bit of a stretch, by any means. so if you haven't bought a computer in 5 years, perhaps you should upgrade so you can use a new mouse with one of the 6+ USB ports that are standard today. :) ...or you could use a PCI card to get USB ports.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[Mad_Rain]

So Findf a cheap adapter. I think you really have to go back to some older computers to not have a USB port anymore.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[NineNine]

Some of us have enough technical and/or geek expertise that we don't need to buy a new PC every few years [ahem]

I run my business and my home only with PC's bought for $25/each at the local thrift shop. There *may* be a PC with a USB port somewhere in the mix, but I doubt it.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[garada]

You mean you want to put a $49 mouse on a $25 computer? Why? Can't you get a $1 mouse at the same thrift shop?

Re:No PS2 port version?

[Anonymous Coward]

You completely missed the point. PS/2 mouse ports are faster and more reliable than that USB garbage. Use one of those USB pieces of garbage for a day then compare it to one of the PS/2 mice, and you'll never go back. If you play games, you certainly never will. USB, with the crappy interface chips and crappy drivers, just has too much latency to use for a mouse interface. Why do you think PS/2 ports are still around? They're simply better.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[Anonymous Coward]

can a $25 thrift shop PC even run win2000 or winXP?

Re:No PS2 port version?

[NineNine]

Good point. I actually can. But it's all about functionality. These PC's work just fine (hence most of them being 5 years old+). The mouse would make life much easier on my development box. That being said, I can also get those old, clicky-click IBM all metal keyboards for $1/each. Those, to me, are much useful than any of the newer keyboards with the extra buttons that rarely get used (and squeeze out the useful keys like spacebar and backspace). It's all about functionality for me, not the keeping-up-with-the-Joneses thing.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[robbieduncan]

The also require either Mac OSX (so you'd have USB) or Windows 2000 or XP. Whilst Windows 2000 might well run on a PC old enough not to have USB it won't run all that well.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[NineNine]

Whilst Windows 2000 might well run on a PC old enough not to have USB it won't run all that well.

You'd be surprised how well it can run on old hardware with just a bit of tweaking. I've got W2K on 8ish PC's that are mostly USB-free (ie: old).

Re:No PS2 port version?

[NineNine]

Agreed... We also only use parallel port printers.

Wasn't there a time when a geek's geekiness was measured by the age of his equipment? Doesn't any geek other than myself pride themselves on using "old" equipment any more? I mean, any chimp can go buy the latest and greatest at Wal-Mart, pull it out of the box, and plug it in. It takes a little bit of knowledge to keep 5+ year old machines working well. I'm proud to say that I run a $1 million+/year business using thrift shop computers, and we never have any kind of downtime.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[timster]

Oh, yeah, PS/2, brilliant. Round connector, but it only goes in one way. Fragile pins that can get shorted together and blow the motherboard. Hot-swap at your own risk. Yeah, let's go back to that, that's a great idea.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[neccoant]

With all the money you've saved on PCs, you can afford a few-dollar USB to PS2 converter. Alternatively, you can spend an additional $25, and get a PC from this century. I am using a PIII 500 right now with no CDROM, and even it has USB.

Re:No PS2 port version?

[Anonymous Coward]

its you spammer isn't it ? 'fess up!

Re:No PS2 port version?

[Anonymous Freak]

Doesn't any geek other than myself pride themselves on using "old" equipment any more?

Yes, I do. I use a Macintosh SE/30 every morning to check the headlines and read email (in a cubby in the dining room.) (iCab on System 7.5.5) I have old Macs scattered around the house for various purposes, ranging from recipe computer in the kitchen (PowerBook 5300ce running 9.1,) to a computer whose only purpose is to run a Guitar teaching software (Beige G3 desktop running 10.1 with an ATI Radeon using its TV-out to the TV, no keyboard, just a trackball, you turn it on and it loads the guitar software automatically, you press power and it shuts down.)

If I could run OS X on my Duo 2300, I'd gladly use it as my day-to-day notebook. (I did until I needed to run OS X for work.) Heck, if I could get away with it, I'd use my Newton 120 or my HP 200LX for all my portable computing needs. (Once, on a lark, I installed Windows 3.0 on the 200LX, I even hooked up a mouse that was larger than the computer.)

Re:No PS2 port version?

[Anonymous Coward]

As others have pointed out, the larger issue with your post isn't Apple keeping up with the "bleeding edge" (in much the same way that, say, gunpowder is "bleeding edge") so much as it is that even if Apple decided to have legacy support so far back that this mouse could connect with a Mac Classic, it wouldn't have PS/2 support--just ADB.

Bluetooth?

[fuzzyping1]

I'm really surprised there's no bluetooth version available, any idea why not?

Re:Bluetooth?

[StarManta.Mini]

Most likely, it'll be oming out within the next few weeks - they probably had issues with stuff like the battery.

Re:Bluetooth?

[coldcup]

Going on what they've done previously, it would come later.

However, the mouse is rather large, they may not have room to stuff in the batteries.

Re:Bluetooth?

[kc0re]

Why would they release both at once? If they release them at two different times, you get two different press releases, two different slashdot articles..etc.. you see the pattern.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[GabrielF]

Apple has found a clever solution to this problem. The Mighty Mouse has a built in speaker that produces tiny clicks when you press, apparently similar to the speaker on the iPod which is very effective.

Mighty Mouse sucks

[VAXGeek]

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Mac Mighty Mouse (a 2005 model w/64 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to drag a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4 with a PS/2 mouse, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

Bluetooth anyone?

[amichalo]

"Bueller? Bueller?"

This $49 single-button-looking, scrolling, rolling, four button optical, is great but...

Why when my iMac, new iBooks, and even the Mac mini come with Bluetooth does this mouse come with a USB 2.0 tether?

I'm still buying one for my iMac, but not for my iBook.

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[Slipped_Disk]

Simple: The batteries in the mouse die, and then it's useless.

Let's look at this logically:

Bluetooth mouse with commodity (AAA, AA, 9V) battery:
Battery gets weak, cursor tracks erratically, customer calls Apple support and whines, Apple has to remind them that Batteries Aren't Forever. Customer goes ApeShit trying to find a battery (never have one when you need one!) and has a generally lousy User Experience.

Bluetooth mouse with Li-Ion (or LI-Poly) battery:
Battery gets weak, cursor tracks erratically, customer has to leave mouse in chargey-cradle-thing until it recharges.
Eventually the battery stops accepting a charge (ala iPod) & customer pitches a fit about having to replace a $50 mouse and has a generally lousy User Experience (and a legitemate complaint IMHO).

USB Mouse with a few feet of cord:
Plugs into keyboard (either Left or Right USB port so no handedness issue), cord is long enough to allow quite a bit of free movement (and much improved since the early G4 days with the kinky cord judging by the current mice), and the damn thing never needs recharging. Since the cord doesn't really get in the way, the User Experience is Good overall, Apple has fewer complaints/support calls to deal with, and everybody wins.

Wireless mice are a great curiosity (LOOK! I can click on this icon from across the room!), but in practical terms they don't quite work out. USB Mice are a better choice for the average desktop user.

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[awl]

For laptop users, though, who keep moving from one meeting room to another all day, being able to just dump the mouse on the desk and start using it without hassling with cables is a big win. I've got a bunch of Bluetooth mice for just this reason. And when the batteries do die, your laptop already has a touchpad you can use as a backup until you get a chance to replace the batteries.

If there was a Bluetooth version of this available I'd have ordered it by now...

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[dn15]

I bet a Bluetooth version will show up sooner or later. After all, Apple's existing one-button mouse is available as both wired and wireless already.

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[CokeBear]

Why not a self recharging mouse?
How much kinetic energy is generated with all that moving around? Enough to power a mouse?

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[TMonks]

Wouldn't that require going back to the currently (almost) non-existant opto-mechanical mouse, though?

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[cowscows]

Not only that, but think about how generators tend to work. In something like hydroelectric or wind generators, you've got a consistent axis of motion, which translates well into operating a turbine. A computer mouse is moved around erratically, not providing any consistent direction. Now, there are rollers inside a mechanical mouse that would translate that into two axis, but it'd still be sporadic, and the direction of rotation would have a lot of sudden changes. I don't know how well that would translate to generating electricity. Not to mention that if you're turning some of that kinetic energy into electrical energy, you're going to be adding some resistance to movement. So the mouse is going to get harder to move.

I don't know how else you could use the movement to generate power. Capture the heat from friction when the mouse moves? I think there are other parts of the computer that provide better sources of heat for such things. If that's not efficient or economical, than integrating something similar into a mouse probably won't be. I'm not an engineer though, so these are just guesses.

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[in7ane]

No, could use somehting like this Kinetic watch

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[prichardson]

Thermodynamics says you can't get something for nothing. Right now the only thing people have to overcome when using their mouse is friction. If you add a generator into the mix (assuming you can figure out how to generate electricity from random motion) the mouse suddenly requires more strength to push around.

That energy isn't free. It's coming right from you.

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[mrchaotica]

You do realize that Apple has made single-button bluetooth mice for quite a while now, right? Obviously, batteries aren't a problem.

I'm guessing (and hoping) that the bluetooth version will come out shortly -- I guess maybe all the fancy sensors take up space, so it's more complicated to find room for the batteries, maybe?

(Incidentally, I'm using a (Microsoft) bluetooth mouse and (Apple) bluetooth keyboard right now, and it's working out perfectly fine. They both run on AA batteries.)

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[ramk13]

I think that the range of motion and change of inertia on a mouse is pretty small. Small enough that you wouldn't get much power unless you had a large weight inside the mouse to increase the inertia.

Motion powered wristwatches make more sense, because of the speed and range at which your wrist moves when you are walking or running. Plus with mice wireless transmission and maybe even optical tracking take a decent amount of power (at least in terms of the power levels we're talking about.)

Re:Bluetooth anyone?

[michaelnz]

That's an ingenious idea. Anyone have any information on if this would be possible with an optical bluetooth mouse?

My first instinct says that mice use much more energy than watches. A watch can take a small battery and last months or years. A bluetooth optical mouse takes triple A batteries and lasts a month.

Speaker Built-in?!

[mkoop73]

Mighty Mouse even sounds as good as it feels. The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects. Design Page

Re:Speaker Built-in?!

[coolGuyZak]

Of course. Users expect feedback to let them know that the mouse is working. My logitech portable mouse has a touch-sensitive pad instead of a scrollwheel... It would feel odd to not have it produce little clicking noises.

for every complaint....

[Anonymous Coward]

Apples DRM garnered over 1000 comments yesterday. For every compaint ten usually go unheard (and I believe it is fair to saymost of the comments you would have to file under 'complaint').

It is not a stretch to think that Apple generated about 10,000 reasonably upset users yesterday - and that was just on slashdot.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[op12]

When I click, I want tactile feedback that it's been registered.

While your comment about less responsiveness may be true, the article seems to indicate that a click is an actual click, meaning you'll get tactile response. The only difference there is it will detect which finger was clicking.

They finally get it

[Alomex]

The process of Apple coming back to life has proven Apple critics right. Apple needed cheaper computers, a switch to intel architecture, dump the old MacOS (pre-X), adopt the multibutton mouse, create a back-end server... what is left in the laundry list? bring back Newton, develop a multimedia appliance...

Entire surface sensitive?

[MECC]

I've already got one.

User Interface concerns

[andymullins]

I think my biggest concern is that the principle of only needing one mouse button in OS X will be left by the wayside. Context menus and such-like are great for power users, but I also know that if I want to do anything in OS X, it'll be there in the main menu too.

When you hear this mighty sound...

[TCQuad]

You see, there was a wrong to right, so they sent this "Mighty Mouse" to the fight. And, from what I see of what is planned, he's got this situation well in hand.

Not that new if you think about it.

[jasonhamilton]

What it is, is essentially a mouse with a track ball on the top. Sounds neat, until you look at your existing PC mouse that already has a scroll wheel. My mouse can scroll up and down, and the scroll wheel can tilt side to side.

The touch sensitive top sounds like a gimmick. But it might work well. The only problem I've ever had with mice is when the unit quits tracking when I move it. I've never had issues with clicking.

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[trentblase]

I know apple does a LOT of testing before they put out a new UI design. I trust that this is easy to use. Also, I've always had the exact opposite of your problem: clicky mouse buttons are always the first to go.

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[Rasdan]

Actually, it doesn't just scroll side to side and up and down like your standard mouse - it scrolls in 360 degrees! Which, in my opinion, is definitely useful.

I can't wait to get one for my Mac Mini - and I wonder if this will work on the PC too because, if so, I might replace my Logitech Laser Mouse simply for the coolness factor, if nothing else.

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell me...how quickly can you scroll from side to side with that tilt-wheel? Not very quickly. With horizontal scrolling, it should be much faster.

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[lgw]

I have a Logitech mouse for my laptop that works like this Mac mouse for the scrollwheel portion. It looks neat, but I *hate* it. I need physical moving parts for the tactile feedback, and listening for the little clicks to tell me how much I've scrolled doesn't do it for me.

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

my current mice scroll 360 already, they have done it for years. all i have to do is press the scroll wheel and i can control document scrolling in any dirrection at any speed without the need to re-adjust my "scroll finger". im not sure if this is standard for everyone but my logitech 1000mx and my MS intellimouse do it.

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a track ball. It looks like a track point to me(like the one built into a laptop keyboard). I like them better than the touch pad but nowhere near as much as a scroll wheel on a mouse.

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[Lotharus]

(activate flamebait mode)
Er.. How about, you know, watching the screen to see how much you've scrolled?...

Re:Not that new if you think about it.

[lgw]

Sure, like watching the screen to see what you've typed makes typing so much faster! Errr, wait. I can scroll up half a screen to check something out, then scroll back to *exactly* where I was with a physical scrollwheel, but not with a virtual one.

Phunky Phresh Goodness

[rising_hope]

Can we say iPod meets mouse? I love that you "squeeze" it too. ;-) It *seems* like this will take some getting used to. I can already see myself accidently scrolling as I drag my mouse around my desk. I'll definitely look forward to trying it out at my local Microcenter.

So, the real question is.. when do the laptops finally get this functionality? That's been one of my primary apple resistances. With desktops, you can swap the mice happily, but with laptops, the bloody thing is built in. Sure, you can plug one in, but who wants to tote around another device just to have the ease that PC/Unix users have enjoyed since the 80s?

Oh... Do you think they bothered to license the Mighty Mouse name? Something tells me they'll have a little more legal trouble with this one than "Tiger" since we can pretty much all recite "Here I come to save the day!" from our favorite childhood cartoon hero. ;-)

So this would explain...

[bobdotorg]

... why I awoke to Purple Monkeys flying out of my butt.

You don't get it do you?

[interactive_civilian]

You don't understand why Apple advocates(d) the one-button mouse, do you?

The reason is quite simple: it is for programmers to make their applications in such a way that you can access ANY features using a single mouse button. Nothing is to be hidden in only right-click-only accessable menus.

THAT is a big part of the Apple UI philosphy. And, that is a good thing IMHO.

/uses a 4 button mouse at home
//can still get by 100% without it

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, so that is why I had to command click everything.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Se7enLC]

It's a nice idea...but then again, dvorak keyboard were a nice idea, too, but we all still use qwerty.

but the fact of the matter is that the 2+-button mouse and scroll wheel are the standard now, and apple should have conceded sooner. Even in windows you can usually get to the context menu without the mouse (modifier key, I believe? It's been awhile since I've used windows). Left button for normal activity, right button for context, menus, extra options. scroll wheel for....scrolling! Why waste a perfectly good hand with one button when it's proven by now that people are capable of operating 3 or 4 and a wheel.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[guacamole]

So, you think it is wise of Apple to force the developers to support a LESS CONVENIENT by making the more convenient interface (context menus) so hideous to use with Apple's default mouse?

Re:You don't get it do you?

[tgibbs]

but the fact of the matter is that the 2+-button mouse and scroll wheel are the standard now, and apple should have conceded sooner.

Actually, they did. The Mac OS has supported multi-button mice for years. Considering how cheap 3rd party mice have become, criticizing Apple for not providing one is a bit like complaining about the lack of Apple-branded 100baseT cables.

What has changed is that Apple has come up with a mouse design that they can ship with Macs, providing single-button functionality for new users without confusing them with extra buttons, while offering multi-button functionality for power users.

I've lost track of the number of casual computer users I've known who were confused by multi-button mice. Some people never seem to get their minds around more than one button. Apple's insistence that all programs be not merely usable with one button but easy to use is a major factor in Apple's beginner-friendly reputation. It also is one thing that makes Apple's laptops more usable. As wonderful as multi-button function is for a mouse, it is a disaster for laptops, where Apple's use of keyboard modifiers is far more natural. Although I do hope they add that scroll button to their laptops.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Pwned]

Yeah, because holding down keys on the keyboard is a whole lot more intuitive than clicking the other button on the mouse when something dosen't work.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[bemenaker]

I haven't seen a user confused by a multi-button mouse in well, over ten years. Now do some stumble when I say right click, yes, occasionally, then I patiently, say, "no, that was the left button, right click." This normally makes them feel a little stupid at first, and rightfully so, but once they have done it ONCE, it's done.

The problem isn't the multi-button mouse, the problem is adults. They DON'T follow instructions, they interpret them. Try teaching computers to kids and then to adults. Kids are SO much easier.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Morgahastu]

Originally, yes. But now most apps depend on control clicking on things instead of right clicking.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because holding down keys on the keyboard is a whole lot more intuitive than clicking the other button on the mouse when something dosen't work.

You just don't get it do you? Damn the torpedos .... full steam ahead with our ONE TRUE DESIGN. This one mouse button thing is like standing up to the world and saying it is wrong. Sure that might work once in a while but in this case it is totally wrong.

I like the idea of the left mouse button being an "action" (like "I click on this to print") vs the right mouse button that gives information about that particular object.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

(Please mod up parent)

EXACTLY! Once again, Apple does not get it.

The world has been more than one-button for a LONG time.

The whole idea of the mouse is to NOT have to use the keyboard for selection.

I'm glad to see they finally came around, however I think this deisgn will have some issues (joystick-like "wheels" tends to be difficult to use and lead to unwanted mouse movement; this may or may not be an issue - I'd have to try it out.)

Re:You don't get it do you?

[springbox]

/uses a 4 button mouse at home
//can still get by 100% without it

"I can stop when I want to!"

Re:You don't get it do you?

[dasdrewid]

4-button mouse? Psh. I've got a *5* button mouse for *my* mac. With a scroll wheel. And flames painted on the side. And spinners. Bitch.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[zipzap54]

What good is a second button then if no applications have been written to utilize it's functionality? Will developers now begin writing their code with this new mouse in mind and forego the users who wish not to switch? obviously the new right click menus must be accessed somehow by users who havn't gone out and purchased this new device. more than likely through the use of cumbersome keyboard shortcuts. convenience indeed.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Trillan]

Applications have been written to support context menus by holding the control key down while clicking since 1997. The second button required a custom mouse driver (which was available) until Mac OS X. But putting a one button mouse in the box by default meant that applications had to support single button mice, too.

This new mouse probably defaults to single button mode until its set up. Hopefully the setting is per user, not system-wide. I don't actually plan on setting up a "second" mouse button on mine... I use Exposé a lot more than context menus.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, multibutton mice have been supported from the beginning. Plug any old USB mouse in and OSX will recognize it. Right-click is the same as a Command-click by default and the scroll wheel works like a charm.

The point is that the OS can work with 3-buttons, but having 1 button as the default forces developers to make a system that is still accessible to a newbie grandma or young kid who might not have multibutton coordination.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's cool and all. The problem I don't think is with the mice though, it's with their notebooks. If I want multi-button mice on my PowerBook, I have to lug a mouse around with me. Or I have to use a single button mouse. Or I have to Ctrl click things. None of these options is very appetizing.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Betaman]

That's funny because Apple's Shake requires a 3-button mouse.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[lrodrig]

I didn't think I'd like a single button mouse. When I got my iBook I noticed that using a touchpad with just one button is _much_ easier to use than a regular 2 button touch pad. You never click on the wrong button.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Control, Option or Command TAP, then.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[praxim]

I'd been informed (I believe I read it in an interview with Hertzfeld) that the whole point was the learnability of the interface. If you're looking at the screen to see what someone's pointing at, you can't also be looking at their hand to see which mouse button they're clicking.

Of course, that all falls apart once you get into that whole command-click business.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[mc900ftjesus]

You can't mouse gesture with 1-button. Mouse gesturing is more intuitive than pretending to see all of the things my mouse does. (keyboard presses with mouse clicks don't count as 1-button, so you lose).

Re:You don't get it do you?

[griffindj]

Actually OS X has had multi-button mouse features built into it since at least jaguar. Contextual menus are not a new thing by any means to tiger. IMO apple advocates the one-button cause it's just different and sexy, and if apple is two things...

Actually I've never come across an application made by anyone where all features were not reachable with a single button mouse and use of the ctrl or alt(opt) key. And if THAT is Apple's UI philosophy, the try getting info for any icon on your desktop without opening finder and chaning views in the menu.

My two cents? Looks and sounds great but where's the wireless model?

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only time I have been unlucky enough to use a single button mouse on a mac has been doing graphic design with a Wacom tablet.

I am left handed and use the mouse with my right hand. I enjoy the ability to draw on the tablet with my left hand while using the mouse with my left.

As I only had a single button mouse, I did not have the ability to accesss many functions by right clicking having to instead put down the stylus to hit the option key and then click the mouse.

I can't speak for every mac user but single button mice were terrible wastes of time.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[danila]

This is a lie spread by Apple fanboys to justify a stupid choice by their beloved Steve.

Most (but not all) Windows applications are just as accessible without the right mouse button. When they require right clicking, similar functions in Mac apps probably require Control+clicking as well.

Also the requirement to have all functionality accessible with only one mouse button is bogus. It was made up to justify the button choice post-factum. There is no real reason why the RMB should NOT be used to access some functionality. Why that irrational aversion to the right button? It's there, might as well use it...

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool, I get to suffer so developers will live up to some HCI guidelines.

Couldn't they just enforce this at the compiler level rather than give me a one button mouse in my PowerBook? Like, not allow something to be in a context menu that isn't in the primary menu? Seems like a pretty straightforward solution to me. Yeah, not everyone uses XCode, but most do and I think that would be enough.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[rk_cr]

"The reason is quite simple: it is for programmers to make their applications in such a way that you can access ANY features using a single mouse button."

But that's not true. I find it more confusing because often times menus are hidden behind a combination of keyboard buttons that bring up mouse selection screens.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[tgibbs]

If I want multi-button mice on my PowerBook, I have to lug a mouse around with me.

Yes, is you want a mouse of any kind on a laptop, you do have to lug a mouse around with you (although some of the miniature mouses are eminently "luggable"). Probably the single most harmful thing about multibutton mice is that they have led to the manufacture of multibutton trackpads. Multibutton control is a really stupid idea for trackpads. Awkwardly reaching for a right-click button with your thumb is a recipe for repetitive motion disorder. Apple's traditional keyboard modifiers are far more rational and easier on the wrists. Who needs to stretch your thumb for an extra button when there are dozens of buttons under your fingertips? The only thing I miss with a trackpad is a scroll wheel (there is software that turns one side of the pad into a mini scroll pad, but I find that awkward and kludgy). I haven't had the opportunity to try Apple's new mousepads with the "one finger tracks, two fingers scroll" feature, however.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, pressing a modifier key (CTRL) is just "so hideous."

Re:You don't get it do you?

[willCode4Beer.com]

So, you are saying, that Apple is making the users (majority) suffer in-order to force the programmers (minority) to do things differently.
Except there is a flaw, programmers still design apps to use the contextual menu. How you get just changes.

Their website suggests that the one-button thing is about selling a prettier mouse.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

I ran into this just recently, teaching a mature individual who has more or less never used a computer before how to use the web. It was surprisingly difficult to talk her through using the mouse, and the two buttons and the scroll wheel were a (brief) source of confusion.

I still think it's not smart to design around complete neophytes, since there aren't that many of them and they don't stay neophytes for long. Most kids these days are growing up using computers and become familiar with how to use a mouse pretty young.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a one-handed person, I've grown quite accustomed to two button trackpads. I find them far more convenient than trying to use the trackpad and hit a modifier key at the same time. So much for accessibility I guess.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually OS X has had multi-button mouse features built into it since at least jaguar. Contextual menus are not a new thing by any means to tiger.

Now if only Apple would actually put something useful in their context menus. Labels? who the f uses those things?

Re:You don't get it do you?

[pboulang]

Wow. You chose a perfect counter example. All those people that bought a new mac that only came with a one button mouse and use shake are SCREWED. "What? I have to go out and buy additional hardware?!"

What about all those people that bought a mac mini? It doesn't come with a mouse at all.. I mean WTF? Is Apple whack?

Of course, your reply completely ignored the point. Did you do that intentionally? You realize that shipping a one button mouse made thousands of third party developers create usable applications automatically? Oh no, you decide to reference a $3000 application that DOESN'T adhere to Apple design philosophy and feel a completely underserved sense of self-satisfaction: "See? SEE? Apple must be wrong!!" Jackass.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[malraid]

If a "scroll whell" is standard, then why do all windows show that pesky little scroll bar? I own an iBook, and I have a 3 button + scroll mouse. But I absolutely love beign able to use just the trackpad when on a car or on bed. It's simple and it works.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[okmnji]

> Although I do hope they add that scroll button to their laptops.

The PowerBooks have a nifty little feature, where if you use two fingers on the trackpad, it scrolls. I got so used to that after *one hour* that I began habitually using it on other laptops.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[slashzero]

Yeah, left handed computing rawks, I always have a pen in one hand and the mouse in the other.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Se7enLC]

Having more than one way to accomplish the same task isn't unheard of. Some laptops have a pencil-point AND a trackpad. Another example is the numeric keypad on the right of the keyboard. When they added that, they didn't remove the numbers across the top, and now it's the standard to include both. I'd go out on a limb to say that people who have both sets find themselves using both sets depending on what they need the numbers for.

I'm in no way implying that because we all have scroll mice that we should eliminate scroll bars. I use the scrollbars myself if I have a particular place in a document to go to or a long way to scroll fast, but it's very nice to be able to read a long page in firefox by hitting ctrl-mouse scroll to zoom the text and normal mouse scroll to move through the document without having to aim for a 10 pixel wide arrow. They also serve as a reference for the length of the document and relative position. It's a well-understood symbol, so there's no point in trying to change it.

Trackpads have a "scroll wheel" of sorts, too. Most trackpads (except for apple) allow you to move a finger up and down along the right side of the pad as a scroll wheel (ironically similar to how the scroll wheel works on the iPod).

Re:You don't get it do you?

[jurv!s]

Actually, if you're watching the mouse when someone holds down the control key, you see the mouse change. A small box with horizontal lines appears to the lower-right of the mouse, letting you know that if you click, you will get a contextual menu. Good point about learnability though. Command, shift and option clicks don't provide such visual feedback however. I generally use sticky keys with pressed modifier keys displayed on the screen during demos for people who want to learn about such features.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Believe]

And that Apple UI design philosophy has led to the incredibly intuitive mac interface - except when programmers have to work around it, then it totally blows.

Say you have a link to a file on a web page, and you want to download it to your hard drive. Using the one button mouse you have to hold down a key on the keyboard (either ctrl or alt or open-apple, it's been a while since I've used a mac) to bring up the "save link target as" option you need.

Tell me that's more intuitive then the Windows/Linux right-click menu.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[GizmoToy]

I know this is off-topic, but it may help you out a bit. A third-party developer was able to implement something very similar to Apple's two-finger scrolling on older PowerBook and iBook machines called iScroll2. It works on all the G4s, and I believe some machines older than that. Anyway, it works extremely well and is a good stopgap until its time to upgrade that PowerBook.

That is, of course, if you have a Power/iBook... you never really say.

iScroll2

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Jesus IS the Devil]

//can still get by 100% without it

Bull. Once this is out you think developers won't be going to the left and right click routine that Windows users have been used to for many years? If that's the case, WHY bother even coming up with this mouse?

Re:You don't get it do you?

[kelnos]

What, no rear spoiler? Chrome buttons? R-type stickers? Puh-leeze.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[crabpeople]

"I've lost track of the number of casual computer users I've known who were confused by multi-button mice."

A HA hahahahah ahahhhahhahahahaha haha ahahahahah ha ha ha...

seriously. please dont let these people breed.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[mrwatanabe]

Or, you hold down the single mouse button until the contextual menu pops up and then you go to 'Save As' or whatever. That's the work around that some UI genius came up with, and it bloody works too.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Say you have a link to a file on a web page, and you want to download it to your hard drive. Using the one button mouse you have to hold down a key on the keyboard (either ctrl or alt or open-apple, it's been a while since I've used a mac) to bring up the "save link target as" option you need. Tell me that's more intuitive then the Windows/Linux right-click menu.

It is more intuitive to just click on the link, then the browser prompts you for where you want to save it. Or if it is the link URL you want to save, just drag it where you want it.

Now tell me this if Apple ships two button mice, by default, on most of their systems will developers write programs where using the right-click button is the only way to get to certain functionality? Personally I'm pretty sure it would happen. There are already a few applications that require right-clicking to use (Maya and Shake come to mind). Given that such functionality will be right-click-only how do you expect touch screen users, disabled users, and voice recognition system users will access the functionality?

More importantly, why do you think the developer of the program will be more knowledgeable about what should be in the right-click menu, than the end user? Personally, my right-click menus are full of scripts, services, shortcuts, and other applications that I use with a given application. Why would I want to lose all that functionality to be replaced with what the develop thought I would want? What about applications where there is nothing useful in the right-click menu? Should I effectively have one less button to use when using certain applications because the developers did not have anything good to put there? No thanks. I use all my mouse buttons and I don't want to have to buy a five button mouse and start working out my pinky finger because you want a to save a few seconds once by having two buttons by default.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[tgibbs]

seriously. please dont let these people breed.

Perhaps the greatest obstacle to well-designed software and hardware is that some people's sense of self-worth is derived from the "Rainman"-like talent of being able to figure out poorly-designed interfaces. Such comforting, self-serving delusions vanish quickly once you start coming into contact with really brilliant people (the ones who accomplish things that actually matter), and discover how many of them have trouble with computer interfaces.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I haven't seen a user confused by a multi-button mouse in well, over ten years.

Having a single button on the mouse is easier for clueless newbies it's one less thing for them to worry about. It's easier for children who have small hands. It's easier of lefties who otherwise need a different mouse or configuration (think public terminals and labs). It's easier for the elderly who have trouble with their hands. It is easier for the disabled who use alternate input devices. It is easier for people using voice recognition since it places all the functions in the standard menus (which voice recognition uses as input options).

Maybe you prefer multiple buttons and maybe most people do. I know I would dread not having all my mouse buttons. And that is exactly why I don't want them to ship with multiple buttons by default. If they did, my second button would be as useless as it is in Windows. Developers would put needed functionality there, it would cease to customizable, and all my useful scripts, shortcuts, services, that I set up for each application I use regularly would be unavailable to me. Instead I'd have whatever crap the developer decided I should have. The developer doesn't know what I'm doing or how I do it. They don't know what functions I use regularly. Let me populate my right-click menus thank you very much. If that means I have to buy a new mouse to go with each new mac I buy, so be it. I always do that anyway since I like trackballs with four buttons.

It will be a sad day when Apple ships a two button mouse by default. Any I'll be shopping for a five button mouse and cursing them all the way.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

i never click on the wrong button either, with my two-button scroll-wheel mouse. but maybe thats because I have better hand-eye coordination than an apple user. its the games, really: play games, get hand-eye coordination, and... oh wait: apple has no games. right.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Mac OS has supported multi-button mice for years."

Multi as in "two, plus scrollwheel"?

I've got an 8-button mouse here, and only 2 of them work with the Mac. It's actually quite confusing when you've been using the middle-button for years to open new tabs in Mozilla/Firefox, then it suddenly stops working when you get a Mac.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[tgibbs]

I've got an 8-button mouse here, and only 2 of them work with the Mac.

Actually, the OS supports thousands of buttons, but Apple's standard driver is more limited. If the manufacturer of your mouse didn't bother to provide you with an OS X driver, you can probably get what you want with a 3rd party driver such as USB Overdrive

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

BRAVO !!!

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how exactly is clicking a second button more difficult than holding down a modifyer key and then clicking a single button? Sorry, that just sounds silly. One button=easy, two buttons=difficult? Where does that leave a 103-key keyboard? Actually, the left and right buttons as currently used by Windows/Linux are very simple: Left click performs the default/most used action for the object you're clicking on, the right button brings up a menu that lets you select less often used commands. Easy to explain. I own an iPod, but I'm frustrated by the single-button interface, where I have to triple-click the button to see album art, quadruple-click to access rating. Is this simpler? The Creative Zen Micro is superior in this respect, using the right-click context menu concept. The Micro has one major problem, and that is using the touch-surface for buttons instead of having proper buttons.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

shake also costs several grand. I guess they figure if you can afford it, you can buy a $30 mouse without breaking too much of a sweat

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Dobeln]

I use 5 buttons on my Logitech MX510 for the Mac. (I have exposé functions + dashboard on 3 of em by default) What brand are you having trouble with? (Nice to know so I can stay clear in the future...)

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right.

Apple lets you set two fingers down anywhere on the pad and use it as a scroll.. left, right, up or down.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[yRabbit]

On a touchpad perhaps, but I find on a mouse it's easy to press the correct buttons.

(I'm a Windows/Linux user.)

Re:You don't get it do you?

[taharvey]

Originally, yes. But now most apps depend on control clicking on things instead of right clicking.

That's just the point, Apple's UI guidelines spec that no feature should depend on it being found in the right-click contextual menu. Right clicking is only for efficiency, like command keys. Windows apps often violate this rule, and functionality can only be found after hunting around for a guessed, hidden, contextual menu - that's poor design.

This is a topic that the technogencia Slashdot users will never get. I'd guess 75% of computer users NEVER have used the right mouse button... ever! Heck, how often do even I use it when not using a CAD system? Sure its convenient, but I use the scroll wheel 50x more.

I'm impressed with the design. Of course, it's similar to a design I thought of! The trick is how to design a mouse that accommodates beginners and experts? This is a pretty nice solution.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[firewrought]

Nothing is to be hidden in only right-click-only accessable menus.

Someone always defends the one-button mouse with this logic, but I don't really see how burying stuff in the menus, in a secret keyboard combo (e.g., holding down the shift key while clicking), or beneath a mouse gesture (double-click, anyone?) is any better. Sometimes you can do funky stuff with the display for the interaction (e.g., setting up selection pseudo-modes, providing drop-targets, etc.), but that takes additional cost, complexity, and raw imagination for each new function.

What you definitely don't want is the every-button-does-something-different-in-every-dif ferent-mode phenomena, a la xfig, but the context menu is different because it is consistent: left-click for primary interaction, right-click to get a list of all your options. Of course, without bothering to conduct or dig up research and put it in perspective, we're both talking out of our arse, but at least the context menu has Direct Manipulation and ease-of-implementation going for it.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Catnapster]

I can get by 100% with one arm, but it's a pain in the ass. I find it much more useful to have two arms. In fact, if I somehow acquired a third arm, I think I would like having three arms much better than even two.

There is no reason - aside from prettier mice, as one poster has suggested - to limit the mouse to one button. Users are generally bright enough to figure out that the right-click context menu has useful stuff in it. Because of this, if a given feature appears only in a right-click menu, it really isn't too much of a problem because the user generally thinks to look there anyway.

I can appreciate most Apple UI decisions. The one-button mouse, on the other hand, was a dumbass move, which is why Apple is moving away from it. Get over it.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[MoneyT]

It's not a matter of not using the right mouse button. It's that you shouldn't have to use the right mouse button.

Tell me, in windows, how do I create a new folder on the desktop from the desktop?

That's exactly what Apple aims to avoid. You can have second mouse button functionality all you want, but you shouldn't be FORCED to use that functionality, just like, if I so chose, I don't need to use a mouse.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[MoneyT]

Actually, from a logical standpoint, the modifier key is the correct way to do this by default. The mouse is a pointing and selection device, thus the commands issued to the computer should be "I wasnt to do X with this". Thus if in the case of downloading a link, the option key tells the system to download, so download THIS and then click on what THIS is. Granted this would work even better if there were a key that said download, but personaly, I would hate to see them cram any more keys into a laptop already :)

Re:You don't get it do you?

[danila]

This is an arbitrary requirement that doesn't make sense. Why shouldn't the user be required to use the right mouse button? Is there anything wrong with it? Is it somehow inferior to the left mouse button? The argument about old people doesn't hold water, because computers are designed primarily for young healthy people. The market forces caused manufacturers to remove the third button (originally most mice had 3 buttons), going to the optimal number of 2 buttons and later add a scrollwheel.

Tell me, in windows, how do I create a new folder on the desktop from the desktop?

Click on the desktop, press the Shortcut key (or whatever it's called, the one between Windows key and the right Ctrl).

Or press Ctrl+Esc, press Esc, press Tab two or three times, Press Shift+F10, then use arrows and Enter to choose create new folder. See? You don't even need a mouse or special Windows keys...

Re:You don't get it do you?

[shrik3]

Originally, yes. But now most apps depend on control clicking on things instead of right clicking.

Which apps? Of the 10+ apps I use daily, 0 require me to use context menus. The only time I need a context menu on my Mac is when I use Firefox (rarely).

Re:You don't get it do you?

[lrodrig]

True. On a mouse it's easy to press the correct buttons, but on a touchpad it isn't. As long as most Macs come with only one mouse button, most applications will minimize the use of the right mouse button. That makes the use of the touchpad easier for laptop users.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[MoneyT]

Why shouldn't they be forced to? Because it's non discoverable that way if you don't make it that way. If I want to see the functions I can have in a program, a brief tour of the menus tells me everything I need to know. If functionality is hidden in context menus it may never be discovered.

Click on the desktop, press the Shortcut key (or whatever it's called, the one between Windows key and the right Ctrl).

Or press Ctrl+Esc, press Esc, press Tab two or three times, Press Shift+F10, then use arrows and Enter to choose create new folder. See? You don't even need a mouse or special Windows keys...

And a user is supposed to know to do this because...........?

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

"...But I absolutely love beign able to use just the trackpad when on a car..." . . I'm always too busy keeping my hands on the car to avoid falling off at 50 mph when I'm on a car. I also like to use them to shield my eyes from bugs squishing into them. How do you actually operate a computer while on cars? Maybe plugging into the cigg lighter keeps you held on?

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Decameron81]

What has changed is that Apple has come up with a mouse design that they can ship with Macs, providing single-button functionality for new users without confusing them with extra buttons, while offering multi-button functionality for power users.

I've lost track of the number of casual computer users I've known who were confused by multi-button mice. Some people never seem to get their minds around more than one button. Apple's insistence that all programs be not merely usable with one button but easy to use is a major factor in Apple's beginner-friendly reputation. It also is one thing that makes Apple's laptops more usable. As wonderful as multi-button function is for a mouse, it is a disaster for laptops, where Apple's use of keyboard modifiers is far more natural. Although I do hope they add that scroll button to their laptops.

It would've been enough to offer customers the chance to buy their computer with a single-button or a multi-button mouse. I've bought a lot of Macs over the years and have always refused to buy another mouse, as cheap as it may be, simply because I hate buying things twice. Macs are not exactly the cheaper PCs you can find, but you can't get to choose a multi-button mouse with them?

That's not enough to stop me from buying/using Macs... but it's not a bright choice either.

By the way, if consistence is Apple's objection to more than one button, then they should simply try and make the feature consistent through some guideline, like they do with everything else. Some people may not like right clicks and contextual menus when things can be found in normal menus and toolbars, but there are certain programs (for example 3D drawing apps) where having contextual menus can make you work much much faster.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[tgibbs]

By the way, if consistence is Apple's objection to more than one button, then they should simply try and make the feature consistent through some guideline, like they do with everything else. Some people may not like right clicks and contextual menus when things can be found in normal menus and toolbars, but there are certain programs (for example 3D drawing apps) where having contextual menus can make you work much much faster.

Nothing prevents developers from using contextual menus, and most do. After all, many people have multibutton mice, and those who don't can access contextual menus via keyboard modifiers. But making the single button standard causes developers to take extra care to provide full functionality with only a single button, and not to rely too heavily upon contextual menus for critical functions.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[danila]

If functionality is hidden in context menus it may never be discovered.

Remind me again, how do you copy link addresses in Safari without using right mouse button or command+click?

When you have a number of objects that you want to be able to act on, you either need to focus on them (select) and use the menu, or just right click. Right-clicking, once taught, is much more intuitive, because, unlike with the menus, you don't need to hunt 5-10 lists (and the sublists), you are shown the relevant actions that you can perform on this particular object at this particular moment.

And to discover all possible right-clicking functionality you can read the help. I don't see how looking through all menus is better.

There is no reason why all functions should be discoverable on startup from the menu. If you want to see what's possible to do with an object, right click on it. Sounds extremely straight-forward and logical.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[Anonymous Coward]

> The reason is quite simple: it is for programmers to make their applications in such a
> way that you can access ANY features using a single mouse button. Nothing is to be hidden in
> only right-click-only accessable menus.

This actually made sense at one time. Say.... 15 years ago.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[MoneyT]

Remind me again, how do you copy link addresses in Safari without using right mouse button or command+click?


Click on a link and copy it out of the adress bar.

When you have a number of objects that you want to be able to act on, you either need to focus on them (select) and use the menu, or just right click. Right-clicking, once taught, is much more intuitive, because, unlike with the menus, you don't need to hunt 5-10 lists (and the sublists), you are shown the relevant actions that you can perform on this particular object at this particular moment.


True, but just because it's more convenient doesn't mean that it should be the only way. The menus give me the commands I can execute, the mouse allows me to select objects, therefore I should be able to select an object and chose a command from the menu. I am not denying the usefulness or the functionality behind a context menu however it is bad programing design to hide commands only in a contex menu.

And to discover all possible right-clicking functionality you can read the help. I don't see how looking through all menus is better.


Tell me, how do you know what to look for in help if you don't even know the command exists?

There is no reason why all functions should be discoverable on startup from the menu. If you want to see what's possible to do with an object, right click on it. Sounds extremely straight-forward and logical.

Yes there is a reason. Discoverability. I should not have to hunt and pick through ever possible object to know what the various functions I have at my fingertips are. Should you be able to? YES. Should it be the only way? NO.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[MeatNoodle]

You don't understand why Apple advocates(d) the one-button mouse, do you? The reason is quite simple: it is for programmers to make their applications in such a way that you can access ANY features using a single mouse button.

Errr... not exactly. Old Apple lore has it that having a one button mouse made writing the documentation easier. It had nothing to do with "hidden" menus. In fact, if you think about it, with all the Ctrl-Alt-Apple-Command modifiers, that single button mouse in some ways is harder to use than a pop-up right click menu ever was.

P.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[danila]

Click on a link and copy it out of the adress bar.
Do you mean load a new page and copy its address? What if it's not available? What if you suspect it's a trojan (and want to copy the link to your e-mail to tech. support)? What if you need to copy 10 links?

Tell me, how do you know what to look for in help if you don't even know the command exists?
Open Help index, click on features. Look through the document, just like you would look through the menu. A nice way to discover the functionality, isn't it?

Yes there is a reason. Discoverability. I should not have to hunt and pick through ever possible object to know what the various functions I have at my fingertips are. Should you be able to? YES. Should it be the only way? NO.
All your argument is based on the assumption that the top menu is a logical place to look for functionality, while the context menu is not. Guess what, this assumption is false.

Context menus should be used in specifica cases, when you have several objects and want to perform and action on one of them. Yes, it's possible to replicate the functionality with the menu. But it's faster for the users to open the context menu, it's natural and expected (once they learn what the right click is) and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used.

One may argue that most functionality should also be accessible using a keyboard shortcut, a menu, a voice command, a command line switch, etc., but one thing is clear - there is nothing wrong with making the context menu activated by the right mouse button the primary way of performing an action. It is quick, it is natural and that's enough.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[MoneyT]

Do you mean load a new page and copy its address? What if it's not available? What if you suspect it's a trojan (and want to copy the link to your e-mail to tech. support)? What if you need to copy 10 links?


Hey, it isn't Apple's fault the web broke conventions making a single click activate the item. That said, the problem is easily solved by clicking and dragging a link to whereever you want to copy it to, even less steps than a context menu.

Pray tell, how does one copy 10 links with a single context menu?

Open Help index, click on features. Look through the document, just like you would look through the menu. A nice way to discover the functionality, isn't it?


And how many applications have you used where the online documentation (or hell even the supplied documentation) was useful for discovering new features?

All your argument is based on the assumption that the top menu is a logical place to look for functionality, while the context menu is not. Guess what, this assumption is false.


No, the assumption is that the top menu is the primary logical location, and that a context menu is a logical secondary and learned location which is a true assumption.

Context menus should be used in specifica cases, when you have several objects and want to perform and action on one of them. Yes, it's possible to replicate the functionality with the menu. But it's faster for the users to open the context menu, it's natural and expected (once they learn what the right click is) and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used.


Again, I am not saying that context menus should not be used. I am saying that a context menu should not be the ONLY way to access functionality.

One may argue that most functionality should also be accessible using a keyboard shortcut, a menu, a voice command, a command line switch, etc., but one thing is clear - there is nothing wrong with making the context menu activated by the right mouse button the primary way of performing an action. It is quick, it is natural and that's enough.

No it's not enough, because it isn't natural untill you know that a particular action is associated with such an object.

Furthermore, you should read some of the other posts detailing where context menus are nearly useless such as any assisted computing device.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[danila]

That said, the problem is easily solved by clicking and dragging a link to whereever you want to copy it to, even less steps than a context menu.
You can do it in many Windows browsers as well, but what your target application is not visible? Context menu is a very simple solution that works efficiently - much better than the alternatives that you describe.

Pray tell, how does one copy 10 links with a single context menu?

Right-click, C, Alt+Tab, Ctrl+V, Alt+Tab.
Rinse, repeat 9 times. Now imagine yourself doing it the hard^H^H^H^HMac way.

And how many applications have you used where the online documentation (or hell even the supplied documentation) was useful for discovering new features?
I don't know... most of them.

No, the assumption is that the top menu is the primary logical location, and that a context menu is a logical secondary and learned location which is a true assumption.

But it's a different matter entirely. Yes, top menu may be more logical to a first-time computer user, but it's 2005 already, it's time to stop designing software for newbies only. The context menu is a learned location, but once it's learned, it's more logical for certain kinds of functionality (basically for everything related to the active object). For a somewhat experienced computer user the context menu is the first place to look for such functionality.

Again, I am not saying that context menus should not be used. I am saying that a context menu should not be the ONLY way to access functionality.
This is a strawman attack. No one has ever said that it should be the only way. What many people, including myself, said repeatedly is that in many cases the context menus is the best way of accessing some functionality and should be declared the primary way (with other alternatives still present).

No it's not enough, because it isn't natural untill you know that a particular action is associated with such an object.

Not true. Once you are familiar with using computers in general and with a particular type of applications, you have some expectations about what kinds of actions are available for which objects in what contexts. If the program is well designed, you usually find these actions in the context menus for the objects. Even before using a download application I know that the context menu for each file being downloaded contains commands to pause the download, resume it, cancel it, view/edit the file properties, copy the URL/file information, change priority, etc., etc. Same is true for all other types of applications.

Also, when I already know the functionality (assuming I found it in the top menu, read about it in the manual, heard on TV, etc.), there is no need to go to the top menu each time. In this case context menus become a preferable choice even for the user, who needed other interface options in the beginning.

But even before I know, I have certain expectations based on using other software. And so it's natural. It's also quick, which you can't deny. So based on these two criteria, context menus are indeed a good interface choise.

Furthermore, you should read some of the other posts detailing where context menus are nearly useless such as any assisted computing device.
Why should I read those posts? I am not arguing that context menus are useful for assisted computing devices. I am just saying that for desktop computing they are great.

Re:You don't get it do you?

[MoneyT]

Right-click, C, Alt+Tab, Ctrl+V, Alt+Tab.
Rinse, repeat 9 times. Now imagine yourself doing it the hard^H^H^H^HMac way.


No one said the alternative single button method would be faster. I never stated that anywhere. I simply stated that such a method should exist.

But it's a different matter entirely. Yes, top menu may be more logical to a first-time computer user, but it's 2005 already, it's time to stop designing software for newbies only. The context menu is a learned location, but once it's learned, it's more logical for certain kinds of functionality (basically for everything related to the active object). For a somewhat experienced computer user the context menu is the first place to look for such functionality.


No no no no no no no. We should NEVER stop designing applications for new users. The day the world stops designing applications with new users in mind is the day that we go back to the command line for everything.

This is a strawman attack. No one has ever said that it should be the only way.

Oh really? Allow me to quote you:

This is an arbitrary requirement that doesn't make sense. Why shouldn't the user be required to use the right mouse button?

Sounds like you do think it should be the only way.

I'm done. My point was and always has been that the requirement the developers write their programs so that all functionality can be accessed without using more than one button is a good requirement.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[amichalo]

According to Apple (right sidebar "now hear this") there is a small speaker built in to give feedback on clicks and scrolling - similar to digital camera "clicks" I suppose.

I don't see it explicitly described as being a true "click" button mouse or not. I assume it would be more like the iPod/laptop trackpad experience where you just apply pressure to activate the click.

The current one button mice do have a definite "click" to them.

Similar to iPod improvements

[shmert]

This is really rather clever. Seems like they learned a lot from the iPod design. This mouse is analogous to the transition from the movable scroll wheel in older iPods to the touch-sensitive scroll wheel in newer ones. Much easier to customize. Much cleaner looking.

They also did a good job of making this ambidextrous. I'm sure that the default setting will be set for "primary button" for both left and right buttons. You go into the prefs and change whichever one you want to "secondary button"

Also, anyone read the little side bar about how there's a speaker in the mouse? It makes the click sounds and "scroll" sounds when you use the mouse. I love the idea of being able to disable the "click" sound that your mouse makes. Or even customize the sound of the clicking.

Questions: How do you reposition the mouse while holding down the button? That would probably trigger the side buttons if you lifted it up. Maybe the mouse ignores those if they're pressed while the top button is being held down.

Also, won't the little scroll wheel on the top get all filled up with shmutz from your finger? Seems like they could have used an extension of the piezo surface here too. Just make the whole top surface of the mouse like a trackpad on a laptop, with pressure-sensitive points.

Looks OK, but with a few possible problems

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

it is a four button mouse, with a trackball in place of a scroll wheel. I hope they did a lot of user testing with this because it looks like they missed some obvious possible problems. First, try telling a clueless user to right-click or even left-click over the phone. Not only is there the confusion of multiple buttons, but they are invisible buttons. I foresee very frustrated tech support people. Second, the original one button rocker mouse was a pain for new users because when they ran out of mouse pad it was hard to pick up without releasing the button. This was supposed to be done using the two non-moving pads on either side of the mouse, but realistically a lot of people held the mouse a little differently which made the task impossible. I saw users try to drag something reach the end of the mouse pad, then turn the mouse 90 degrees and keep dragging sideways then reach a corner and turn it again so the mouse was upside down and keep dragging. Some of this problem can be solved by turning up the mouse sensitivity, but realistically many novice users don't know you can even do that. Also, older users with bad hands can't turn the sensitivity up too much or they can't accurately select anything, but they still need to drag thing a long ways sometimes (like when dragging an item into a place in a long list). This new mouse has buttons right where those two pads were located. Users accustomed to using the old rocker mouse will have a lot of trouble learning not to grab those two spots.

I'm not a big mouse fan myself. A trackball takes up less desk real estate and is less a pain for long, straight lines. I'd love having a 360 degree mini scroll ball instead of a scroll wheel though. How long before these show up everywhere?

Re:Looks OK, but with a few possible problems

[dowobeha]

I hope they did a lot of user testing with this because it looks like they missed some obvious possible problems. First, try telling a clueless user to right-click or even left-click over the phone. Not only is there the confusion of multiple buttons, but they are invisible buttons.

The mouse is set up by default to act like a single button mouse. Multi-button functionality won't be there unless you (the user) enable it. Plus, all Apple apps, including the OS, are designed to function perfectly with a 1 button mouse. You can use right-click and other functionality if you have and understand a multibutton mouse, but you never have to if you don't understand it.

Re:Looks OK, but with a few possible problems

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

The mouse is set up by default to act like a single button mouse.

Well, that is a good thing and will mitigate the multi-button problem for the most part. There will still be systems used by multiple people, however, who do not bother configuring extra accounts, but who end up with this enabled. Like when you browse the web at grandma's, enable it, but forget to turn it back off. This could be made better simply by adding a graphic on top of the mouse so that a clueless user can have them easily described. "OK, the context menu is appearing when you click because you have the right mouse button enabled. click on the left front area of the mouse." Compare this to, "click on the red button, not the green." What is wrong with having a definition showing which button is which? Adding colors, even if just a thin border of a color would make the mouse more usable, but sacrifice some of that all important aesthetic.

This still does not address the usability issues of dragging long distances with a mouse that cannot be easily picked up and has buttons where the user used to pick it up.

Re:Looks OK, but with a few possible problems

[SilentTristero]

...all Apple apps, including the OS, are designed to function perfectly with a 1 button mouse

I see you've never tried Shake. Useless without a 3-button mouse (check the Tech Specs; it even lists 3-button mouse as a requirement.)

Re:Looks OK, but with a few possible problems

[Thu25245]

First, try telling a clueless user to right-click or even left-click over the phone.
Thankfully, since these will mainly be used on Macs, you'll never have to tell anyone to right-click. Remember how all the commands on a Mac are available to single-button mice?

Second, the original one button rocker mouse was a pain for new users because when they ran out of mouse pad it was hard to pick up without releasing the button
It's an optical mouse. There's no reason to use a mousepad, and it's really hard to run out of desk.

Re:Looks OK, but with a few possible problems

[Anonymous Coward]

when the top shell is being depressed (left or right click), the side buttons cannot be depressed, and thus can still be held to pick the mouse up.

It's cool, but I say that not in a fanboy way...

[jht]

Yeah, it's a nice mouse. Kind of slick, well-designed, and typical Apple kit. But it changes absolutely nothing about the Mac at all.

Apple still is including good old one-button mice with Macs by default. Mac OS X is still designed to only require one button in order to do everything - two buttons give you nice options but aren't necessary. So that's no different. Mac OS X has always supported multi-button mice and scroll wheels, as well. I use a Microsoft wheel mouse with my iMac G5 at the office, a Logitech wireless keyboard/mouse combo with my home iMac, and a Kensington Bluetooth mouse with my PowerBook. I prefer two buttons. My wife and son, on the other hand, both prefer and use Apple one-button mice with their Macs, and my wife also has a Compaq that came from her office (she works out of the house) - she hates the two-button mice.

Really, the only thing that's changed here is now Apple will gobble up some sales dollars that previously went to the aftermarket mouse makers. Assuming that a typical "decent" mouse sells for around $30, that's a nice little extra bit of revenue for Apple. And the name is kinda cool.

Mighty Mouse + Custom Click Sounds = Pr0n

[mrch0mp3rs]

It'll be cool to hack my click sound on my mouse.

Just think of the possibilities when using the tactile scrolling feature while viewing pr0n.

Windows Support

[Anonymous Coward]

They're pretty cagey about Windows support (See the Mouse Control Panel). Do they supply Windows drivers? I doubt, for instance, the scroll-wheel will work without them. In fact, I'm pretty sure that without device-specific drivers, Windows will only recognise 3 mouse buttons (after that you need Intellipoint for Microsoft mice, Logitech-specific drivers for Logitech mice, etc).

Bluetooth

[WarpedMind]

Now, if they just come out with the Bluetooth version by Christmas, I'll be positively giddy.

Why so expensive in the UK?

[sicut ante]

Apple's UK site offers this Mighty (expensive) Mouse at £35. At today's exchange rate of $1.77/£1.00 that's $61.97 US. Even taking UK VAT into account, at 17.5% on the base US price of $49.00 the price would be $57.75 US. Anybody have a well-reasoned argument why similar, indeed, identical products are so bloody much more expensive in the UK than in the US?

Re:Why so expensive in the UK?

[rokzy]

volume?

consider US population to UK.
consider number of US stores to UK.
consider shipping.

I got mine a little cheaper with educational discount. shame they didn't release this yesterday as I could have got free shipping with it packaged with my EyeTV Digital TV tuner.

Re:Why so expensive in the UK?

[Anonymous Coward]

consider shipping???

UK's population about 20% of US, land area is about 2%, therefore lower shipping costs should be lower internally due to much higher population density. Doesn't cost much to send a container with thousands of mice across to the UK.

volume????

Economy of scale is based on world-wide selling.

Sorry, I'm pissed off having just bought a memory card to hard disc reader for £14 plus £20 shipping from Hong Kong, because they cost £100 at a UK internet retailer or £200+ on the high street.

Re:Why so expensive in the UK?

[rob123]

The mouse is no more expensive! It's almost exactly the same price!

£35 - VAT = £28.87 * 1.77 = $51 ($2 difference)

This is usually a problem with most tech goods however, in the UK and Europe.

There was even a BBC News article about it a few weeks back.

Basically, the manufacturers have found that people in Europe are used to paying more for their goods, so they increase the pricing for their goods they send to europe.

Example: Adobe CS 2 US Academic: $369. UK Academic: £399 ($703). For the same box.

Re:Why so expensive in the UK?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gas/petrol costs about 3-4 times as much in the U.K. as it does in the U.S., so ground transport would probably cost more. Also, wages are higher in the U.K., so personnel costs should be included in shipping/handling.

Also, if you look at the distance and ease of use to ship from China to California and China to the U.K. you can see that there are probably increased cost with that too.

All these comments

[SpinJaunt]

All these comments, just over a poxy pseudo single-button single-balled mouse!

Win32 API

[migbait]

This is part of Apple's Think the Same campaign. First, switch to x86, Second, switch to multi button mouse. Next, make OS X compatiple with Microsoft Windows API.

Finally!!!

[saha]

Finally, one of the last items on my Apple wish list, that gives a multi-button mouse and a X-Y axis scolling for Apple hardware

• I currently use a five button Kensington Optical Elite mouse which I highly recommended and costs $15.20. I use buttons four and five to invoke Expose functions like All Windows and Desktop respectively. I wrote a new feature request back in 2004-Oct-11 Bugreporter #383452 "WM: Application switching enhancement from Expose control panel" to allow application switching to be invoked via a hot corner or a programmed extra mouse button in addition to the current application switching done by Command + Tab. Seems like my wishes has been partially answered by the new "Mighty mouse". The question is:
• • Will they allow application switching via hot corners?
  • and will they allow third party mice to be programmed to use application switching?
  • Will all new Apple hardware include this as a standard, a choice between a one button and Mighty mouse, or force customers to buy a single mouse button mouse and the Mighty Mouse as an after option? Personally, customers want choice and I'd like to see this being standard on all new Apple hardware and for those Apple fans that enjoy the single mouse button the ability to opt for a single mouse button without paying extra.

• My biggest wish for a any Mac OS X middle mouse button was to be able to do an X-Y scrolling which I was able to do back in Windows Internet Explorer, Office and Firefox. Strangely, this feature in Windows was not supported pervasively in their OS, but I enjoyed it every much and was reintroduced to it when I started to use the new Powerbook which had scrolling supported in the next-gen trackpads. Kudos for adding that as well.

One of the issues I was going to discuss with my local Apple rep. this month was in the next generation the Intel based Macs must be able to dual boot and have at least a two button mouse with a scroll wheel, if Apple was looking to replace some of our older Dell hardware in our computing labs. Looks like that issue is now moot and I always felt that my requests for the choice of the multibutton mice had fallen on dead ears in the past.

The rumor mills did show some indication that Apple was working on the next-generation mouse from these two patent applications.

Mouse having a rotary dial and Mouse having an optically-based scrolling feature

My current concern is that the force sensing mouse won't give the haptic feedback necessary, but I reserve judgement until I can get my hands on one. Good job for Apple and I feel that the company is really starting to listen to its customers, including the rather vocal Slashdotters :)

OK, where's the Linux platform then???

[advocate_one]

Because everyone deserves a chance to experience the most elegant mouse on the planet, Mighty Mouse is also compatible with PCs. Mighty Mouse uses the standard, multibutton mouse driver included in the Windows 2000 and Windows XP operating systems and plugs into any USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 port.

Re:OK, where's the Linux platform then???

[Winterblink]

I'm sure it won't take long for someone to code up a driver for the masses.

cool.. audio feedback

[pixelorgy]

"Mighty Mouse even sounds as good as it feels. The audio feedback built into Mighty Mouse provides an aural sensation that responds to your movements. A tiny speaker inside Mighty Mouse produces button-clicking and Scroll Ball-rolling sound effects."

Instant VISUAL feedback

[itomato]

Do you have the same trouble when you use a trackpad?

Do you stick to using the buttons, or are you a tapper? If the lack of click-action on your neighborhood Synaptics product gives you the willies, then there are roughly 10,000 alternate input devices you can choose, same goes for the MM.

None are gonna offer the same technical dvancement:price ratio, though.

You're going to get instantaneous (or as fast as you can render) feedback in the form of a scroll, or a context menu, not to mention whatever benefit you attribute to the squeeze.

--
Now, am I the only one who can only think of Andy Kaufmann when I hear that tune anymore?

Re:Instant VISUAL feedback

[Superfarstucker]

in other words, innovating an inferior product with nice aesthetics. WTG Apple, you always do it for me! I love to spend 50.00 on a mouse that has no buttons and makes an annoying noise to indicate you've clicked it. The GP's point is (obviously) that a lot of times the feedback you recieve from the visual interface is delayed (ever hit submit on a webform?), bringing into question whether you've ever pressed the button. Unless the speaker is insanely loud, you'll never 'hear' the click over music or probably even talking either.

I'll definitely get all the ladies with this sucker.

It's funny how easy it is to take a step backwards with better technology. Kind of like the eBooks in kenya. Seriously, WTF?

Re:Instant VISUAL feedback

[synx]

having used one the new mouse for a little while today, i must say the scroll ball is definitely tactile. I can't tell if its rolling or what, but I can feel it. It also makes some noise too, but I can't get past the tactile sensation. My coworkers can't either.

The regular buttons are also tactile, I can feel it click. This is definitely a really awesome mouse.

To say its a 'step backwards' is really an uninformed position.

this is the most important hardware anncouncement!

[Agave]

All Apple has to do now is bundle this mouse with every new Mac and make the single-button configuration the default and I will never, ever have to hear the noise of "PC pwnz Mac because it ships with more than one button!" bliss ;)

Seriously though, I've owned two Macs (picked up the first to run Rhapsody) and several PCs and I always replaced the mouse. In fact, my current favorite is
Microsoft's Trackball Explorer. Plenty of buttons, no need for a mousepad or deskspace, very easy to keep clean, and precise.

I won't ever buy a Mighty Mouse but it looks like a great improvement over Apple's previous offerings and a nice mouse overall. It really ought to be bundled though.

But does it work on Windows?

[Ndkchk]

Seriously, does it work on Windows? It sounds really cool and I've wanted a mouse like this for quite a while. All of the similar multi-button, programmable mice for Windows are wonderfully ergonomic for right-handed people (And I'm left-handed), but this looks like it's got all of the fun of multiple buttons while staying normally shaped. I think that I'd buy one if they were Windows compatible.

Re:But does it work on Windows?

[Winterblink]

It says it's PC compatible on the page linked to by the article.

Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[argent]

Other than the weird idea that having "stealth" mouse buttons is a good idea, look at the "squeeze" function.

Those buttons on the size that you're supposed to "squeeze" to activate Expose? Those are in the same spot as the only non-moving part of Apple's previous mouse. If you want to pick up the mouse while holding the button down (say, you're dragging something and you hit the edge of the mouse pad) you HAVE to squeeze it in those two spots.

*sigh*

Apple used to care about design. Now they just care about style.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[Anonymous Coward]

You idiot. When you're "holding down" the button, your finger is just on the mouse, no pressure needed. It is just like picking up the mouse (you don't have to squeeze that hard).

Dimwit.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[rokzy]

how do you know the squeeze buttons aren't deactivated while another button is pressed?

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[zpok]

OK, I don't want to say this thing is good, I haven't tried it yet. But what you speak of is a typical usability issue.

One that must have been addressed in a thousand iterations if it came from Ive's team. They may slip once in a while but not in such a basic thing, not with such a "little" device that will get huge attention.

It's a multi button mouse from Apple, in 2005. Hello! Everybody will write about it. If it sucks, Jobs will personally shove them up the sunless spot of 5000 engineers...

And btw, a mouse pad?

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[argent]

When you're "holding down" the button, your finger is just on the mouse, no pressure needed.

Ok, that's another reason this is the worst mouse ever. You can't rest your fingers on the mouse buttons.

It is just like picking up the mouse (you don't have to squeeze that hard).

You're missing the point.

Here I am, I have the old Apple mouse. I want to move the mouse while I'm holding this file. Oh, there's a book in the way. I grasp the mouse firmly while holding the rocker depressed, pick it up, move it back a bit, and put it down and keep moving.

Here I am, I have the new Apple mouse. It looks and feels very similar to the old one. I want to move the mouse while I am holding this file. Oh, there's a book in the way. I grasp the mouse firmly while holding the... whoops, Dashboard just came up!

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[argent]

But what you speak of is a typical usability issue.

To be precise, it's a typical Apple usability issue.

Like the "hockey-puck" mouse was a typical Apple usability issue.

Like the "rocker" mouse and the way you have to carefully hold it by two little tabs to pick it up and move it was a typical Apple usability issue. The two little tabs, by the way, that are right where the force buttons on this mouse are.

Usability issues and recent Apple mice go together like security issues and Internet Explorer.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[hunterx11]

Everyone but me seemed to dislike the hockey puck mouse, but it did force you to put less strain on your wrist.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[argent]

You want to buy mine?

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[zpok]

The hockey puck was a disaster, granted.

But many people comment on the white Apple mice, but most users who're into one button mice like them.
And they are ergonomically sound, meaning they put less strain on your hands.
I'm very sensitive to that, having a touch of artritis in my hands. There aren't that many mice around that suit me, Apple mice do (and incidentally the MS mouse I use right now does too).

BTW what you describe (rocker mouse) doesn't at all fit my experience. IMO the white Apple mouse is extremely good.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[TRRosen]

Hmmm didn't really hit me till now.... Squeeze the mouse to hold a click should no longer be necessary since you have both a microswitch for the down press and a touch sensor to tell what side you presses it should be able to realize that you picked up the mouse but are still pressing the button and thus hold the click. Not sure if this is the functionality but it does make sense.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[mrchaotica]

Considering how difficult it would be to pick the current single-button mouse up while clicked, I don't think they are too worried about that.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[argent]

And they are ergonomically sound, meaning they put less strain on your hands.

My arm hurts after I've been using the Apple "no button" mouse. Maybe I use it wrong, but it just doesn't do anything the way I expect it to.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[MadAhab]

It's a little premature to make these conclusions. Why don't you try using it and see what happens?

I know, I know, a venerable and reliable flamewar is about to die a cold, hell-frozen death. Don't worry - the MacTel is out there and I'll be surprised if it doesn't yield some new hunk of flamebait.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[macaddct1984]

When you're "holding down" the button, your finger is just on the mouse, no pressure needed. -- Ok, that's another reason this is the worst mouse ever. You can't rest your fingers on the mouse buttons. The buttons are not touch sensitive, there is still a mechanical action that takes place. "On Mighty Mouse, the entire top shell is the actual button. As with previous versions of the Apple mouse, simply press on the upper surface to click -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the clever click mechanism."

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[argent]

Not according to one review:

I love the mouse too, but you've failed to mention a major shortcoming of it.

If both fingers are resting on the mouse, and you click with your middle finger for a right click, it doesn't register it as so. Seems the touch sensors don't see which side has more pressure, and do the click that way.

You have to remove your index finger from the mouse, then click, for it to register as a right click.

That seems like a deal-killer to me.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[macaddct1984]

That seems like a deal-killer to me.

Hmm... that would seem like a very large flaw, not to mention a pain in the ass.
I guess we'll just have to see once more people review them.

Apple willing to reconsider Sacred Cows?

[amichalo]

As a "switcher" and happy investor in AAPL, I have to say I am glad to see this device for what it indicates of management and Steve Jobs himself - they are willing to reconsider the past Sacred Cows of their own designers and deliver what the market is asking for.

With an OS that doesn't suck, a sub $500 Mac, a move to x86, and a mulitbutton Apple mouse, will Apple reconsider other Sacred Cows like a 21st century Newton?

Re:Apple willing to reconsider Sacred Cows?

[The Lynxpro]

"With an OS that doesn't suck, a sub $500 Mac, a move to x86, and a mulitbutton Apple mouse, will Apple reconsider other Sacred Cows like a 21st century Newton?"

Or Apple finally buying out TiVo (and ReplayTV's intellectual property from liquidation minded D&M Holdings)and bringing to market a TiVo DVR that takes advantage of integrating iTunes/iMovie/iPhoto along with dual tuners, H.264 native support, iSight support, CableCard 1.0 standard (and 2.0 through an upgrade), Firewire, and Airport options?

Re:Apple willing to reconsider Sacred Cows?

[Bodhammer]

This is a repost...

Dear Steve,

Last week had two events of significance for me. One was the digitizer on my Palm Tungsten T died and the other was the Sony PSP was released. The problem is that I don't want either of them. There is nothing that I want to replace my TT with and I don't want a PSP.

What I want is the Apple Newton II!

Here is my recipe for the new Newton:

One Tapwave Zodiac (gaming but Palm compatability)

One PSP (screen aspect ratio and quality, build quality, 802.11/USB, and a (soon) real game library)

one Zaurus SL-C3000 (modern CPU hardware, form factor with keyboard and touchscreen (twistable), open source OS (linux or xBSD), hard drive, CF slots), real I/O

Add iPod mini functionality and HD storage >= 10Gb

Add Newton HWR(inkwell?) and general Newton goodness

Add replacable AA batteries that will last a FULL day so I'm never stuck

Vendor support of an active development community
MS Outlook sync for PDA functions (calendar and contacts) (my job requires it, what can I say....)

Stir to make it all cool and integrated and still be work meeting/date/wife safe

I would pay $699 tomorrow for all of this and even pay $50 a year for a software subscription for the basics.

What do you say Steve, can I have one?

Who do you think they call it an IBM Clone?!?!

[9Nails]

PC's innovate in evolution. Gradual and steady improvements are rewarded with repeat customers and a stead cash flow.

Every once in a while necessity will help invention. Like in the case of the Ageie PPU. Or 3DFX with the Voodoo line of graphics accelerators. But we tend to forget these quickly as they become cloned and consumed.

Well that's not very exciting

[lpontiac]

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

You DO have tactile feedback

[Lepton68]

You click the mouse same as the old one, by pushing down on the whole mouse until it clicks - tactile. The mouse senses what side of the top your finger is on, giving you a left and right click. You can also click the scroll ball on top of the mouse for a third button - tactile. And you can squeeze the sides for a fourth button - tactile. All these are programmable, and the ball scrolls 360 degrees.

Re:You DO have tactile feedback

[Anonymous Coward]

You click the mouse same as the old one, by pushing down on the whole mouse until it clicks - tactile. The mouse senses what side of the top your finger is on, giving you a left and right click.

So what if I'm dragging something with the left button and I want to right-click? How do I get tactile feedback for that? Isn't the whole mouse already clicked down?

Re:You DO have tactile feedback

[dr00g911]

Speaking for the Maya users out there, I'm curious if the sensors / clicking mechanism will freak out if I option+LMB+RMB to dolly in the viewport.

I really love the idea of a scroll ball, though. And I do love how Apple mice feel, always have since the Mac SE. But my Logitech MX 310 is the best freaking Maya mouse I've found and comes closest to that elusive Mac mouse "weight" and comfort. Curious to see how the mightymouse compares... credit card out.

Re:You DO have tactile feedback

[mrchaotica]

Yeah, but what happens if you're like me and you rest your fingers on the mouse buttons even when you're not clicking them? If I'm touching both buttons, how will it know whether I wanted to left-click or right-click?

Re:You DO have tactile feedback

[Macka]

Huh? I'm trying to think of a situation on Mac OS X or Windows where I click on something to drag it, and then RMB click to do something with it at the same time. Nope, can't think of one.

Re:You DO have tactile feedback

[LesPaul75]

On Windows, this is fairly common, for me anyway. In my text editor, for example, you can drag-select with the left button, and then click with the right button (while still dragging) to toggle the selection between a normal select and a "box select" and a full-line select. Really handy, actually. Also, in several apps, you can right click while dragging to cancel the current action. Like say you're drawing a really precise curve or something, and you get halfway through and realize that you've screwed up. Some apps (maybe even Photoshop?) will cancel the whole curve if you right-click. It just saves you the trouble of having to stop halfway and then hit the "undo" key combo. I've seen a few other handy things that you can do with pressing both buttons in this way, but I can't think of them at the moment...

Re:You DO have tactile feedback

[alerante]

Right on. As the design page states:

On Mighty Mouse, the entire top shell is the actual button. As with previous versions of the Apple mouse, simply press on the upper surface to click -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the clever click mechanism.

Leave it to Apple...

[cyngus]

...to go from a 1-button mouse to a 0-button mouse. LOL. I know Steve was sitting around saying, "They all want us to release a 2-button mouse, so we can NOT do that." This is Apple being true to form, why release a product that you can already get for $15 when you can release a totally new, better design? Imitators, start your engines.

I dunno...

[fritter]

The lack of force feedback doesn't bother me a lot, but I just wonder how intelligent their algorithms are for sensing button taps. The page makes it sound like you can rest your fingers without setting off a flurry of clicks, but I still wonder how error-prone this might be. The more broad idea of an input device covered in touch sensors that you can reprogram is kind of cool, and for some reason squeezing the mouse to trigger Expose seems really intuitive, but I'd definitely be suspicious of something like this until I get a chance to try it out.

On the other hand, there's probably a harried engineer in Steve Jobs' office right now, complaining, "I never said we should build a better mouse tap!"

Sorry for the changed USPTO links

[saha]

Sorry for the changed USPTO links. I got the links some time back from the Macintosh based websites and the links did work, but they've changed for some reason. Feel like a dufus for not checking the URL before posting. Currently I tried to do some searches but couldn't find those two specific patent filings that I saw in the past.

At least it's not $149.

[haaz]

I'm so used to the Apple of Old (that is, the 1980s) that I expected it to cost well over $100. Not $50! That is just freakin' awesome. They'll sell another million of these, I'm sure. And I wonder, could they be integrated with USB iPods?...

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[amliebsch]

Audio feedback is not an acceptable substitute for tactile feedback. Heaven forbid you might want to work in a noisy environment, or with headphones on, or you're old and you can't hear well. Devices manipulated by your fingers should provide feedback to those fingers, not to your ears. It is not clever, it is a kludge.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[Jayzz]

The tech specs says "full-body button", which seems like the same type of mechanical button used in the current apple mice. My understanding is that you can click the whole body just like you do with the current ones, but this one detects which finger(s) you used to click the full-body button so that a click can be interpreted as left or right (or both) click.

They'll need an extra setting...

[whyde]

...to adjust the "fidget threshold" tolerated by this mouse. I routinely "tap" my fingers on my mouse and its buttons because I know my fidgeting won't use enough force to depress the buttons.

I can imagine two sliders:

[<-----X----------->] Fidget threshold
[<-----------X----->] Caffeine intake

Really, I think this mouse would be awesome, and smacks of excellent design. But I think I fidget too much with my fingertips to make it anything but confused if I use it.

In other news...

[theolein]

... a Microsoft spolesman announced today that Microsoft is going to innovate and design a one button mouse. "Microsoft is always on the leading edge of product design", he said, adding that, "We are always careful to differentiate our products from those of our competitors"

They will

[danigiri]

Oh, rest assured, they will:

1.- Release a wireless version
2.- Release a version that has coded colored lights inside, to provide feedback and/or show which areas are active, etc. They even own a patent on this.
3.- ?
4.- profit!

Ah, and the gesture apps of MacOSX will soon take advantage of the scrollwheel to capture gesturing commands

Look...

[Quiet_Desperation]

Apple knows everyone goes out and buys their favorite mouse anyway, so they take the oppurtunity to play with the design of theirs.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[The Lynxpro]

"I don't question that'll be fine for the average user, and I know the Macites will blast me with "get a gamer's mouse then" (I have one for my Mac), but anytime Apple leads the rest of the industry tends to follow. Hopefully Apple led well."

Uhm, who *games* on the Mac platform anyway? And I'm not posting this to get a flamebait or troll award, but Mac gaming will not get serious until the MacIntels hit the market next year and hopefully off-the-shelf video cards (PCIe) will finally work on the PowerMac equivalent models...

A standard two-button mouse does nothing for gaming on the Mac. But hopefully, it'll convince the programmers at Yahoo to enable two-button mouse performance in Yahoo Messenger for OS X. :)

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[SilentChris]

Sound isn't going to do it unforunately. If I'm at a Lan party I'm not going to hear it anyway. Same reason why people still cling on to old spring-loaded keyboards.

That ball in the middle looks like a problem

[DrXym]

One problem that has plagued mice before now is the wheel getting clogged up with gunk and simply sticking solid. That tiny ball in the middle of this mouse looks like it is going to suffer horrible from this problem. There's barely any space around the edges meaning that crap is going to accumulate and clog it up in no time.

Other features such as the multi-button functionality look interesting but they could have done this a long time back. I made just the point myself nearly 6 months ago on yet another Apple mouse thread - "It's a wonder given Apple's penchant for design that they don't produce a mouse with a single button that uses software to determine if you were left or right clicking on it based on the pressure on each side of the mouse. Then both camps can be happy."

Still the extra buttons, means that zealots will have modify their rhetoric to accomodate the fact that Apple do actually produce a multi-button mouse now, albeit one where the form factor resembles a single button design. Hopefully Apple will dump their shitty one button mice for good and ship these things with future models. People can still set it to single mouse mode if they want (and perhaps that is the default), but for the rest of us it makes the Mac more usable.

Re:That ball in the middle looks like a problem

[Thanatopsis]

Read the specs Mighty Mouse Specs. It has optical tracking so it uses a freakn' laser, not a little ball. Do they even make mice that use physical tracking anymore? All my mice for the last 5 years have been optical.

Re:That ball in the middle looks like a problem

[DrXym]

The mouse tracking is optical, but I see nothing to say that the ball on top is. If it the tightly enclosed ball that it seems to be then it *will* suffer from clogging. I've gone through many mice and its only the latest with wider gaps around the wheel that don't.

Of course it might just look like a ball but be a pressure sensitive tip (like those found on laptops) in which case it shouldn't clog at all, but the pics suggest otherwise.

I Sence a disterbernce in the force.... Again.

[jellomizer]

Like a million of Trolls were silenced and a million of Zealots had to make new arguments.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[SilentChris]

I can't tell if that would be worse or better. Doesn't that require even more movement then pressing a button down? It seems akin to flicking a finger and swinging a hand -- the second takes more motion.

"Right Clicking"

[AddressException]

Umm, that would be the control key, not the command key! :)

And in other news...

[Blue Lozenge]

Duke Nukem Forever has shipped to game stores around the country!

IWantIwantIwant!!!

[CProgrammer98]

Apologies for the drool dribbling down your screen from this message.

That is one SEXY device. I want one... NOW!

Clear evidence of the End of Days

[Glyndwr]

Clearly, this city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions. Old Testament, real wrath-of-God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.

(Hell, everyone's already taken all the cool zero-button-mouse comments. What else is a ten-minutes-behind-the-times laggard like me to do for cheap karma, huh? Huh?

corrections

[Anonymous Coward]

The Mac Mini, we haven't seen the last of this yet I'm afraid. Of course by the Mac users seen as the future of Macs. Reality: Apple are in 2005 selling computers with 1.25ghz CPU and 4200RPM drive for $499, this excludes keyboard mouse and monitor and includes not even enough RAM to run the included operating system. If you could buy a similar spec PC (which you can't because there are no that slow) you would get at least keyboard, mouse and monitor. It will probably not take long before a hoard of not very happy Mac mini users put these to rest when they find out you can't even run todays software reasonably on a new computer, and tommorows will be next to impossible. The argument from the Mac crowd is that if you buy a Mac mini to play games you are stupid. Is there any other software for the Mac mini I must be stupid to try running?

The $499 mac mini ships with a 40GB 5400rpm drive, and comes standard with 512MB memory, which is plenty to run Tiger. Apple increased the base memory to 512MB after releasing Tiger.
As for your "similarly spec'd PC," there is no such thing. "Size" is a feature too, you know... and the PC that comes closest is the cappuccino PC.
Their site appears to be down right now (I'm assuming the company still exists) but this is the "equivalent" PC you can build, which is still larger in size than the mac mini. This pricing info is a few months old, found elsewhere on the net. As I said, I can't get to their web site to find current pricing.

------
Their Cappuccino EZ3 (their LOW END):
PIII processor at 1.26Gz (Pentium III???)
Upgrade the RAM to 256MB (this is the maximum you can add, the mini goes up to 1GB)
Upgrade to a 40gb HD (the slower one to save $16)
Upgrade to CD/RW + DVD reader, slotloading
Add WXP Professional (OS X is definitely "professional", there's no crippled version, WXP Home is $40 cheaper)
No option to add a better video card then integrated stuff
What's the cost: $1042.

That is TWICE the cost of the mac mini, while still being slower, with less memory, and fewer features. No wireless, no bluetooth... both of which can be had (in addition to faster processor and bigger HD) for an additional $100 on the mini.

Oh yeah, no monitor or keyboard on the cappuccinoPC either.

Throw in the fact that the mini includes iLife 05, which is a pretty sweet bundle of apps, and there's no comparison.

I have a 1.42 mini, and it's fast enough to convert DVD's into Divx and such. Please tell me why you need more than 1.42GHz in order to surf the web, do email, and handle pictures and video.

Now, I do also have an Athlon64 desktop with GeForce 6800 that I use for games. :-)

Re:corrections

[bemenaker]

So the only advantage of a mac mini is size. Because I can buy a $399 dell that is more powerful and it's complete system. Oh wait, I had a flyer in the mail yesterday that had a $299 Dell, complete system, (after $100) mail in rebate.

I am not tyring to completely bash apple here, but from your argument, this is all I can deduce from it.

Re:corrections

[allanc]

Please do not feed the troll.

(Check his username. Look at the other things he's posted.)

Re:corrections

[toddestan]

The Mac Mini is quite possibly the best sub-compact computer you can buy right now. There is no questioning that. But for someone who doesn't need a computer the size of the Mac Mini, you can buy a PC for less money that will kill the Mac Mini in terms of performance and features. Look at the Shuttle SFF PCs. About 4-5x the size of the Mini, and a lot more powerful.

Alternatively, you can just buy a laptop. A laptop will be smaller than a Mac Mini + flatpanel monitor + keyboard + mouse [+ UPS]. There are plenty of compact laptops in the PC world, and I've always considered the 12" iBook to be a better deal than the Mini anyway.

No wireless?

[pfoorion]

No wireless. Definitely less space than a Nomad. I'll start short of saying lame. Seriously, though. No wireless? I can't imagine it would be that difficult to throw a bluetooth chip in there and make space for a battery. Maybe the speaker for the cheesy sound effects took up the battery space. Ah well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still intrigued by the design and will probably swing by the Apple store some time in the future to check it out.

Re:No wireless?

[Jord]

From Apple's website:

Up to four programmable buttons: full-body button with touch-sensitive technology beneath for left-, right- and Scroll Ball clicking. Force-sensing side buttons.

No speaker. It is a single full body mouse button that can tell where you are clicking.

Although I am also hoping that they create a bluetooth version of this very soon.

Re:No wireless?

[Fenris Ulf]

Look harder. It does have a speaker to give "click" and scroll feedback.

Re:No wireless?

[Jord]

Yes, I saw that afterwards, however my comments regarding the full body button and tactile feedback stand.

scroll wheel

[ArbitraryConstant]

The extra buttons aren't that big a deal for me, it's the scroll wheel.

It's deeply intuitive, just like moving the mouse itself. While right-clicking can be confusing (and Apple doesn't really get around this because they have hold-click), I've seen inexperienced users using the scroll wheel instinctively within minutes of being exposed to it. There was no reason to leave it out.

I think the primary motivation was to release a mouse with scrolling capability because people were willing to buy a third party mouse over the lack of it. The extra features are gravy.

Re:scroll wheel

[pomo monster]

I just want to point out that hold-click doesn't pop up a contextual menu, and hasn't since Mac OS 9. Hold-click initiates a drag (unless you're using Firefox, in which case it does give you a menu, but it's not surprising considering how un-Maclike Firefox is in all other respects).

Re:scroll wheel

[Anonymous Coward]

I just want to point out that hold-click doesn't pop up a contextual menu, and hasn't since Mac OS 9.

Except on the dock, where it does. I love OS X and its consistent UI.

Re:scroll wheel

[MouseR]

[wrong buzzer sound]

Hold-click is still there. Case to point:the Dock. Hold-click and you get the contextual menu. Though, use of that IS marginal in Mac OS X as you imply.

So is drag-hold (pop-up windows in drag and drop).

BOOBIE!

[riffzifnab]

Mighty Mouse: Now with 50% more breast look and feel.

Re:BOOBIE!

[Overzeetop]

Hmmm, It hough you were a troll or an OT, but you're kinda right. You have to turn it upside down, and imagine its sorta saggy, though.

For the nubile version, you have to wait for the round puck version (like the old iMacs), and hope they add a scroll disc, like the iPods.

But what really matters...

[supabeast!]

Apple releasing a nifty multi-function mouse is pretty cool, but what really matters is whether or not this becomes the standard Apple mouse. If Apple just keeps shipping single button mice with systems, all Apple has done is license a few different mouse design patents and wrap them up in a touchpad, but if Apple standardizes on this thing it will be even easier for PC users to make a quick transition to OS X without buying an extra mouse to go with their new Apple machines.

Bah, a mere toy

[Anonymous Coward]

My mouse is cordless, optical, and as it's at home and I'm not I can't tell you how many buttons it has, but there are a bunch. The extra buttons (above and beyond the industry standard two, which Apple until now obviously couldn't afford) include dedicated back and forward buttons, a task switch button, and buttons for a continuous scroll.

As I'm posting a/c, I won't reveal its brand name so you won't think I'm a shill for its manufacturer.

Apple bragging about a four button mouse is like MS bragging that their OS doesn't crash as often as it used to.

What's next?!

[WormholeFiend]

So what's next?! An Apple-made OS on a PC?

Oh wait!

Innovation

[Slipped_Disk]

A lot of people are talking a lot of shit, but the truth is Apple DID do something innovative here.

Two buttons: Not innovative, though using capacitive touch sensors is something new and interesting.

Vertical scroll w/ 3rd button: Not innovative. I've had 3-Button mice damn near forever, and scroll wheels have been foisted upon me since they became fashionable.

"4th Button" (side squeeze): Not original, but kinda innovative. The idea of 4 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,...) button mice is getting old, but Apple has a good point for adding this (bring up the application switcher and scroll through your open apps, bring up Expose and scroll through your windows).

Horizontal & Diagonal scrolling: Innovative, and new (at least to me).
I haven't seen ANY mice yet with the ability to scroll horizontally and diagonally yet. Maybe not the most useful feature in the world for everyday users, but the principal BUSINESS USERS of macs are PUBLISHING SHOPS. You have to do quite a lot of panning around when piecing together a layout for publication, and I think this feature will be popular with publishers.

Hello! This is Apple

[Mistah Blue]

Since when does Apple have to cater to the whims of the Wintel community? The Apple systems this mouse works on all have USB. If your PC doesn't have USB, either fix it or don't get the mouse. Either way, quit your whining Wintel users about Apple not doing what you want. You aren't their market!

obligatory taco quote ...

[jamesbrown1000]

Fewer buttons than a IntelliMouse. No Bluetooth.

LAME.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[Jayzz]

Not really. Just go and try any current apple mouse. It's no different than clicking a button in normal multi-button mice.

Oh good, I had it wrong...

[kentyman]

...I thought it was for Sim Autism.

I shouldn't've said that, huh?

Thank God it's still got a wire!

[mnemotronic]

Darn those pesky wireless mice! So free, mobile, and easy to use. Good thing Apple hasn't discovered "ease of use" yet. But seriously folks, wireless mice and kbds are soooooo nice. I would have thought that this would be the top priority for a company that claims "user friendly" as it's mantra.

Re:Thank God it's still got a wire!

[John Nowak]

Apple does offer a wireless mouse already. However, why you want to be putting even more batteries into landfills is beyond me. I don't care for latency either.

Re:Thank God it's still got a wire!

[Sigma 7]

Plugging in a wire is no less userfriendly than putting it back in the recharger. The only people who have trouble plugging stuff in are those who never encountered a wall outlet.

Other than that, it's a matter of persanal taste on whetheryou want to worry about wire length, or to worry about battery life.

Re:You don't get it do you? No, you don't get it..

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't understand why Apple advocates(d) the one-button mouse, do you?
The reason is quite simple: it is for programmers to make their applications in such a way that you can access ANY features using a single mouse button. Nothing is to be hidden in only right-click-only accessable menus.

THAT is a big part of the Apple UI philosphy. And, that is a good thing IMHO.


Ok, so Apple has a one button design so nothing is hidden under right click menus...hmm...here's a newsflash for you genius...NOTHING IS HIDDEN IN RIGHT CLICK MENUs ONLY...period..not one thing is in the right click menu that you can't access via the other single button way. Sorry to take the arugment this way but you must be stupid stupid stupid because if your arguement was true, then we couldn't get away with using a single button mouse on OUR systems without sacrificing a bunch of functionality of all those right click ONLY menus....puullleeeaaaase.

The REASON we have TWO is because you can't access EVERYTHING with the LEAST amt of clicking!! Not unless you put everything 2 clicks away which means your menu system gets cluttered as all hell...but no, Apple thinks it's ok to make you have to click a single button 5 times to get to some areas where I can right click and save a click or three...really...nice try on the whole designed for the UI argument but fatally flawed...good fanboy, go fetch!

Use Sidetrack!

[Cybrex]

You obviously can't emulate two buttons with the button bar on current PowerBooks, but Sidetrack will let you emulate it using the track pad. In fact, if you are so inclined you could fully emulate a 6 button mouse with both horizontal and vertical scrolling areas using just your existing trackpad and single button!

http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/ind ex.html

-sigh-

[epheterson]

And now I sit back and laugh at all those who have argued with me about how apple is too good for two buttons.

No Rumors preceded this

[blackmonday]

I think Apple has nailed the leakers, this caught us all by surprise. You would think a multi-button mouse would have been rumor fodder!

Strange

[digitalgimpus]

I've had a 4 button mouse for over a decade now on my mac.

Go figure.

IMHO people who need more than one, likely just hook up their own keyboard/mouse.

okay, now this is getting rediculous. . .

[jafac]

I used to actually buy that cheesy excuse about the "purity" of the one-button mouse design, and why Steve Jobs wanted to make sure both lefties and righties were well-served by their products' offerings.

But looking at this thing, I'm starting to think that it's actually some weird pathological fear of multi-button mice. I mean what? Was Steve Jobs raped by a two-button mouse as a child? WTF?

When I buy a new Mac, the first thing I do is buy a two-button/scrollwheel mouse. Then I upgrade the RAM (because Apple is stingy with stock RAM, and overcharges for upgrade. No room for debate there.) With the last few years of Apple's offerings, there really hasn't been a need for upgrading much more than that. (although their black keyboards suck for typing in the dark, so I've replaced those - didn't need to for the G5 powermac white keyboard).

Re:okay, now this is getting rediculous. . .

[John Nowak]

Apple is no longer stingy with stock RAM. They all come with 512MB. They also now charge SANE prices for RAM. Go ahead, check! They also no longer sell black keyboards. They're all white now, and the fiber-optic Powerbook keyboards are brighter than ever.

RTFA

[zpok]

Yes, it works on Windows.

Re:RTFA

[VoidWraith]

Not all of us read every little detail on the sidebars. I, for one, didn't notice until looking very closely. IMO it's bad web design to include information where people normally just look for links.

Re:RTFA

[Nick of NSTime]

Tech Specs reveals the same information. Windows 2000 or Windows XP.

Re:RTFA

[zpok]

Maybe I should have used RTA as title...

Or RTFSB.

Stop drinking the kool-aid!

[speters]

The mouse on my iMac died rather quickly after purchase. I had the choice between the $40 replacement Apple mouse, or a $10 multi-button wheel mouse. I cannot say how much my productivity improved with the wheel mouse. The best part is that it has lasted for three years while my original mouse lasted for one. Yes, the funky mouse *looks* cool, but for $40 less, you can get a functional mouse that works. Stop drinking the kool-aid that Steve Jobs is passing out! Rather than design more cool things, can we get PowerBooks that are reliable instead?

Re:Stop drinking the kool-aid!

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, my mouse is still going strong after 2 years; and my PowerBook is still going strong after 4. What kool aid have you been sipping?

You obviously havn't used shake

[DreadPiratePizz]

You obviously havn't used shake or motion. Motion doesn't exactly require a multibutton mouse, but it's practically a nessesity. An shake? It REQUIRES a 3 button mouse.

Re:You obviously havn't used shake

[tillemetry]

To be fair, Apple purchased the company that made Shake, they didn't develop it in house (think it was 2002). Asking the Shake team to optimize their UI for a one button mouse would have been kind of silly.

Introducing a multi button mouse was a better strategy in my opinion. They should have done it sooner.

Re:You obviously havn't used shake

[Anonymous Coward]

But that's the point, no? Apple is not the only developer of software for their OS. The example of Shake is apt. It is a really good illustration of what happens with 3rd party developers. Optimal UI or not, this is the reality of the marketplace which , it appears, Apple is now smart enough to embrace.

Nice mouse.....

[ShyGuy91284]

If it were BlueTooth, I'd buy it when I get my *Book. (hint hint).

Re:Mighty Mouse + Custom Click Sounds = Pr0n

[The Lynxpro]

"It'll be cool to hack my click sound on my mouse.
Just think of the possibilities when using the tactile scrolling feature while viewing pr0n."

Next thing you'll be demanding from Apple is force feedback/vibration on Mighty Mouse II for your pr0n needs... :)

Perhaps they should add an electronic shock to the controller for replying to spam or any pop-up add that sneaks through Firefox or Safari...

And, just for your personal interests, I'd suggest checking out Atari's experimental arcade game from the 1970s called "Gotcha." The designer objected to the phallic nature of videogames via the joystick so he created his controller based upon breasts...

One possible reason

[zpok]

Vaccination and quarantaine procedures?

GAH

[Sarcastic Assassin]

Not only is it $50 (not a surprise, from Apple...), but it's WINDOWS 2000/XP COMPATIBLE!!

Re:GAH

[Jerry Rivers]

What's wrong with $50? My MS wireless Intellimouse was $60.

Honestly some find something to complain about. No matter how specious the complaint is.

Strange...

[BigZaphod]

I named my current bluetooth mouse Mighty Mouse. :-)

Intelligence != willingness to tolerate messy UI

[ianscot]

you could tell the intelligence of a computer's users by how many mouse buttons they had

Quick, what are the rules for what goes in the right-click as opposed to a (tiny, indecipherable) toolbar icon or the drop-down menus? As a user, what can I expect in those three spots?

Apple's point with the mouse buttons has always been that they convolute UI, giving sloppy developers an excuse to drop loads of "the menus we didn't make easy enough to reach" in that contextual menu. In terms of consistent API and UI -- the "programs behave consistently across my computer" part of "it just works" -- two and three buttons are a mess. That's why all those clueless Windows users have trouble using right-click. The (arrogant) mistake there belongs to the programmers, not the users.

That said, once Apple had grudgingly allowed the Control-Click thing, all its systems accepted multi-button mice without any adjustment at all. Apple gave up the point, but continued to include one-button mice just to be contrary. Er, I mean "Different." And they fed the trolls. And this thing is one rejoinder to those trolls.

Unix users have to screw with xorg.conf to set the mouse protocol to get their scroll-wheels to work... does that strike you as being more intelligent?

Let's put it this way: Intelligence might correlate with a willingness to do that, but I'm pretty sure wisdom would not. ;-)

Sweet

[TheoGB]

Looks cool, and it even points out it can be used with XP, though it's vague about the features. I'm looking for a new mouse for my PC so I might pic this up...

My writeup

[ZackSchil]

My writeup for this article (submitted nearly 4 hours ago) was a bit more detailed so I might as well post it as a comment.

As if we needed yet another sign of the impending apocalypse, Apple announced today that they will be selling a multi-button mouse. The aptly-named "Mighty Mouse" features two top buttons (actually, one that's a touch sensitive panel to determine which side of the mouse has been clicked), a secondary button that is activated by squeezing the sides of the mouse, and a clickable, bidirectional scroll ball. It also contains a small speaker to give user feedback when clicking or scrolling. The mouse is programmable from the Mac OS X Mouse Control Panel and will retail for $49. It has not yet been bundled with any Macs and is not available as a build-to-order option. It is, however, PC compatible.

Really now...

[dasdrewid]

As cool as this sounds, and as bitchin' as it is to be able to say "Look" to all the punks that *still* complain about apple only selling 1 button mice, I don't think I'm gonna enjoy this.

Why? Simple. I *HATE* trackpads on laptop when you have double clicking on. I tap my fingers (among other annoying habits), and I hate having it decide "Oh, he clicked" when I was reading a long document and my cursor was randomly over something I really didn't want clicked. I don't see this as being any different. I'll accidentally tap my finger and bam, I clicked.

As it is, I've got a 5 button mouse with little buttons on the side that I use for expose. It's nice. Sometimes. It also becomes a pain, fairly often actually, when I'm clicking something and accidentaly grab the mouse too hard and instead of clicking, everything on my desktop disappears. Easy enough to correct, but still an annoyance. That mouse you at least have to use some force to push the buttons, with the mighty mouse, they don't say specifically, but it sounds like just a swipe will do it.

Also, I think the lessons learned by all those projected keyboards and stuff should be taken into account. Just like when I'm typing, I want feedback on whether I've pushed hard enough to register. I like the little click. I like the resistance. And I think a lot of other people do, as well.

I think it's a good idea for Apple to have a multi-button mouse, I like the whole idea of it being able to be both a single button mouse and a multi-button mouse just by clicking a radio button in "Preferences" (someone earlier said something about having little kids and old people set up that way on their user when they log in and I totally agree), and I really think that "scroll-ball" thing is sweet (I wish I had that in my current mouse), but I just don't think this whole "touch-sensitive" thing is a good idea.

In a properly designed UI

[snowwrestler]

In a properly designed mouse-based UI you can get to everything using only one button and the menus. Apple provides contextual menus a secondary, alternative way to access features. But the point of the single-button philosophy is to ensure that nothing is available only in contextual menus. The contextuals are to provide shortcuts for power users--the people most likely to have or buy their own multi-button mouse anyway. Unlike some other OSs, Apple OSX is designed first with everyone in mind (including grandma), then power-user features are overlayed (e.g. contextual menus, Terminal, etc). I'll bet that this mouse does not ship standard with any Mac.

Re:In a properly designed UI

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, please. Using a keyboard modifier key to bring up the context menu doesn't do any more to prevent bad UI designers from hiding features there than a multi-button mouse does.

Re:In a properly designed UI

[leinhos]

I think the parent was refering to a level of abstraction, where a "modifier" is used to change the default action to an alternate. This maps easily from a one-button+keyboard modifier to a multibutton mouse.

That being said (it's been a while since I've used MacOS) you used to be able to get the contextual menu in MacOS by holding the mouse button down for a fraction of a second longer than a simple click (click-hold), so that the mouse implemented 4 events without any modifiers: click (select), double click (action), click-hold (contextual menu), and drag (move/multiselect). The two-button mice give you the same 4 events, but with more buttons: l-click (selection), l-double click (action), r-click (contextual menu), and l-click-drag (move/multiselect).

The mouse wheel adds a new dynamic, which I like, but I don't see it as an essential part of the man-machine interface.

Straw men

[mcc]

This is the same crowd that up until TODAY said that more than one button would lead to widespread panic, confusion, and anarchy. Now two buttons plus a programmable surface and a cursor that looks like it was stolen from a Thinkpad is perfection.

Um, except that if you'd actually asked any of that crowd "and what mouse do YOU use?" I guarantee you somewhere around or above half would have let you know they have a third-party two-button USB scrollwheel mouse on their personal macs, despite their defense of Apple's use of a one-button mouse in general. Surely you could not have failed to notice the disturbingly high frequency of posts in every single Apple thread saying something like "...but you can buy a mouse with more buttons, just not from apple..."? They were trying to tell you something.

Or, in other words, the members of this crowd, at least the ones that hang out on slashdot, in general tend to consider one-button mice inappropriate for low-end users. That is, these people would consider the multi-button mice something which is all well and good for power users (often including themselves) but which is not good for everyone-- and furthermore conclude that since a single mouse design can't please everyone, the low-end users should be the ones whom the computer's pack-in mice should please. Therefore, Apple's long-held decision to stay with one-button mice for the pack-in mouse would be the right one, since the low-end users are pleased by default and the power users can surely handle an operation like "go buy a mouse" on their own.

So from the above viewpoint, Apple's new programmable mouse thingy is the best of all possible worlds, since it entirely upsets the assumption above that one mouse can't please everybody-- because this one can. It can behave like a one-button mouse for low-end users or a two-button scrollmouse for high-end users with just a change in software configuration. I mean, I won't be buying one, but I can definitely see the attraction here.

So your way of putting things isn't exactly fair. But, hey, I guess it's easier to misrepresent people's views to make them look hypocritical than it is to try to understand what they're saying.

Same rhetoric as it was for the x86 chips. x86 was terrible until Apple adopted it, right?

I wouldn't know about this one, since I think the decision to move to x86 is a terrible one, I think Apple is handling the transition extremely poorly, and as a result I am seriously considering researching my alternatives the next time I buy a computer.

Interestingly, when I voiced this opinion on Slashdot, I was forcefully yelled at for being an "apple zealot". From the combination of this and your comment here, I can only conclude that if you're a mac user, you will be denounced for being an apple zealot if you agree with Apple's decision to move to x86 and denounced for being an apple zealot if you disagree with Apple's decision to move to x86. Hm.

Re:Straw men

[Mr. Underbridge]

Surprisingly, I *am* a mac owner...

Regarding mice: See, I don't care what option is the best for the dumbest 1% of the population, and designing your hardware around that is asinine. I still want to meet these people who are confused by two buttons and sterilize them for the good of mankind. Also, the "go buy a mouse" argument falls flat when one invokes the concept of a laptop - sure, for desktops, who cares. However, I own a powerbook and I would like full functionality from the thing that doesn't involve peripherals. Screwing 99% of the population for the good of the 1% makes no sense. Fortunately the 'book has a number of other pleasing features that make it worth it, but the trackpad is one of my top 5 peeves.

Regarding the x86 issue: I haven't accused you personally of anything before, and I'm not going to start defending the slashdot hordes now if they've called you names. However, in general, it's the timing of everyone's jumping on the x86 bandwagon that stinks. Hey, if you're not on that wagon, it doesn't apply to you. Congratulations for forming your own opinion (or at least being stubborn :) However, there are a number of people who were slamming x86 architecture three months ago who have been praising the decision as genius since. For that kind of a turn around, one needs to be drinking some serious kool-aid.

In short, the hypocrisy issue may not relate to you, but I'm pretty sure it's not a straw man because it relates to *many* on slashdot. There's a little too much flaming, ranting, and Steve worship for my taste.

Re:Straw men

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the apple zealot thing is really annoying. I'm tired of the assumptions that people make about Mac users. Engineers think i'm dumb because i didn't see the vision of Intel. Windows must be the best because Microsoft made it and IBM bought Microsoft stuff. Glorious! Then its assumed I can't use a PC at all because I have a "pretty" little computer at home. Guess what, I've got 2 pcs, 3 macs and a sun sparc in my home. Not exactly a Mac zealot... a diverse OS/computer user more like it.

I bought a Mac because OS X was a feature rich, nice looking, UNIX workstation for cheap. Sure I could have installed linux on the cheapest POS pc i could find but i wanted a fast UNIX box with working video and sound. Granted Linux is prime time now and with the 2.6 kernel its got a lot more hardware support. XORG can bite me on driver support though!

PPC good. Intel chips good. AMD chips good. Sparc chips good but slow. Everybody happy? (yes i have all of the above in my home!)

The mouse idea is great. This works for my idiot father in law who can't right click and my father who can't left click (only right.. wow!) Yeah there are idiots who can't use a mouse! More than you think in fact! My mother in law used to bitch about windows every week.. got her on a mac and she calls twice a year for hardware installs (pda, printer, etc)

iBooks and PowerBooks

[Vandil X]

I hope Apple incorporates Mighty Mouse technology into the trackpads of their iBooks and PowerBooks.

While the new two-finger scrolling feature and third-party trackpad drivers can lend much of the mighty mouse's features, it would be nice for a full, first-party solution.

Hint: _PARTIALLY_ for windows, too

[RosenSama]

But not all features are necessarily supported. From the compatability chart:

Windows 2000 or Windows XP See the Mouse control panel.

Also, this dislaimer underneath the proclamation of Windows support:

Works with standard input driver included with Windows XP and 2000. No additional software required.

Put it together and I think only the features a default mouse driver support will work on this. Now maybe it's compatible with the drivers for 11 gajillion button MS and Logitech mice, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Why, when you make them yourself?

[SuperKendall]

You have learn where the buttons are in the same way as Das Keyboard, but with this mouse you first have to realise that there *are* buttons.

But they key is that there really is only one until you tell it otherwise. So you know where the buttons are because you made them!

I imagine the button definitions can vary per user, so if you are another user on a box where someone has set up a funky button mapping you'll never know. I am a little concerned abhout tactile feedback myself, but the auditory cues might be enough.

The END is near! The END is near!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

The END is near...

First Apple moving the Mac to Intel, then articles saying MacIntels will use "Trusted Computing DRM" BS, now this? OK, who are you and what the Hell have you done to the real Steve Jobs?!!

The world is going to Hell all around us...The end is near.. I need a drink.. It's 5 o'clock somewhere, right?

Who will sue Apple over the Mighty Mouse name

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone out there know if the Mighty Mouse name is
public domain?
Obviously Apple did not invent the name...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mighty_Mouse

Re:Who will sue Apple over the Mighty Mouse name

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone out there know if the Mighty Mouse name is
public domain?
Obviously Apple did not invent the name...

don't know. that is the first thing i thought of: Marvel Comics sues Apple.

Re:Who will sue Apple over the Mighty Mouse name

[johnbeat]

Look to the bottom of Apple PR page: "Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved"

nice mouse!

[samkass]

Two full X,Y planes-- it's like having a trackball under your middle finger-- plus pressing the "scrollball" and squeezing the mouse...

That's 4 axes of motion and 3 buttons... all in the most elegant package I've seen a mouse be in. I want one.

Mind you, this is not the mouse you give grandma. This is the mouse you give your MechWarrior-playing buddies so they can one-hand manipulate torso and leg motions while firing both lasers and rockets...

at least they've got style

[Kopretinka]

The move is years late, but I gotta admit they've done it with style. 8-)

Why would you be usin thier account?

[SuperKendall]

If I let friends use my Mac I make a user for them. Thus they would have a default button arrangement (one).

You are thinking like a Windows user where having other users is really not very useful and kind of a pain to bother with.

truly disappointing

[utexaspunk]

no tactile feedback? no forward/back buttons? still the same flat, non-ergonomic, non-hand-filling design? no thanks! I'll take a Logitech MX900 over this overdesigned piece of crap any day.

The tactile feedback thing is what really kills me. Audio feedback (a built in speaker to make clicking sound? WTF!?) is NOT as good as tactile feedback. This is also why original the physically moving scroll wheel on the original iPod was sooooooooo much better.

Easy mice?

[lpangelrob]

In the beginning, there was one button. Then there were two. Then there were clickable scroll wheels and programmable toggles and solid-state slides. But nobody made a mouse as easy to use as your Mac.

As the proud owner of a Powerbook, I have to say that the traditional Microsoft optical mouse was pretty damn close, and should have become standard issue on all PCs after it was released.

Welcome to 1995

[Thu25245]

It wasn't until 1995 that Microsoft (following OS/2's lead, and God knows how many Unices) gave the second button something to do.

Windows, up through version 3.x, didn't really support two-button mice. The second button did nothing in 90+% of all apps.

Touch Sensitive?

[TMonks]

Using the touch sensitive mouse buttons seems like a huge drawback to me. Whenever I use a mouse, my fingers always rest on the buttons. Will there be a way to differentiate between actually pressing the button and laying your finger on it or will you have to keep your fingers away while you are not pressing the buttons?

*gasp*

[greenhybrid]

*gasp* if this thing was wireless I would ditch the Microsoft Bluetooth mouse I JUST bought for this beaut. Why isn't it wireless!?

Missing Option:

[VeganBob]

Where's the bluetooth version?

The mouse is worth...

[Infonaut]

For what it's worth, it's not a bad mouse. It's a very good one. It's just worth $30, max.

Any economist will tell you the mouse is worth what people are willing to pay for it.

Re:The mouse is worth...

[illtron]

They'll probably also tell me how "beleagured PC maker Apple" is ready to shut down any day now. The laws of economics don't seem to apply to Apple.

Wireless?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason I use the Apple mouse is because it's a bluetooth optical. They do that with this one and I'm in like Flynn.

Mod parent informative

[Brunellus]

Nice to get the facts. Like I said, I always heard it as a folktale.

Soviet engineering has always fascinated me, though. There's a certain brutal utilitarianism to Soviet design that sometimes creates beautiful and elegant solutions..

MOD PARENT UP

[Macka]

Dam, where are my mod points when I need them. That's the first useful description of how it works that I've read so far.

Apple mouse patent

[coolfrood]

Does anyone remember this?

It cant be...

[Lord Haha]

No I will not use a mac till they make 2 button mice... but but what will be my excuse now???

Does it rock or not?

[argent]

Apple's mice do travel up and down the touch sensitivity is simply to determine if you want left or right.

OK, Does it rock or not?

That's one person who's said it rocks, one who says it's just a touch sensor.

It it actually rocks like the existing mouse, that makes the squeeze function even more stupid because now there's NO WAY to lift the mouse while dragging a file. That's gotta make those 30" displays a real pain to use Finder on.

Re:Does it rock or not?

[FireBreathingDog]

OK, Does it rock or not?

OMG DUDE!!!

of COURSE it ROCKS! It's from APPLE!!!111

LOL!

You read it here first!

[mrbarkeeper]

I guess they just wanted to prepare everyone for the Mac release of Duke Nukem Forever!

Clicking with capacitors

[Anonymous Coward]

First, the Tech Spec page states "full-body button with touch-sensitive technology". Judging by the pictures (note the cracks running around the case) and this statement, it seems clear that the whole upper body "clicks". The capacitive technology simply provides the "touch-sensitive" part. If using the mouse in a two button setup, the cap simply determines which finger you're clicking with.

But regardless of whether the whole body "clicks", it wouldn't matter if you were resting your finger on the mouse, or even if your other finger was resting on the mouse. So it uses capactiance? So What? Anybody who's had to work with input devices knows how to determine a state change indicating a click. Even if you didn't lift your finger off the shell, you just pressed harder, the change in capacitance would be easily measured. I'm sure Apple has taken the time to figure out the capacitive thresholds associated with clicking actions...

I seriously doubt they'd make you sit there, hovering your hand to prevent accidental clicks.

Tethered

[Jerry Rivers]

Think I'll wait for a wireless version.

Satan's been playing hockey for years

[Vaystrem]

http://www.nhl.com/lineups/player/8459534.html

Re:Satan's been playing hockey for years

[TopShelf]

So what does that mean for the team that signs him as a free agent? That they'll make a deal with Satan if that helps them win the Stanley Cup?

Still. Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[argent]

But its got a touch sensor under each finger to determine WHICH finger made it click.

So if I'm using an X11 program that uses chords for extra functions, I can't chord with it. If I normally rest my fingers on top of the mouse, I can't do that because it'll confuse the sensor.

You can still click-n-hold using the side tabs without fear of activating button-4, since this button is pressure sensitive.

I'll believe that when I see it. The current mouse is pretty slippery and I have to hold it pretty firmly to be sure it's not going to release the button in the wrong place.

Stylish design... complicated engineering... tricky to use... bland looks... it's not for everybody.

Re:Still. Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[pVoid]

Yup, reminds me of the pen story from NASA. Apparently, NASA used some really complicated engineering to make a pen that would write in 0 gravity situations. Invested millions of dollars into it.

Russia, on the other hand, used pencils.

A mouse is a mouse, making it high tech really adds nothing to its usability, only to it's geek/suave factor. And frankly, as an IT worker - not an independently wealthy CEO who wants to show off his gadgets - I'd much rather a fully usable logitech or microsoft mouse that looks ordinary than have a cool looking translucent mouse that makes chirping sounds.

Re:Still. Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[Elwood P Dowd]

1. NASA didn't spend millions on the space pen. Some entrepreneur developed the space pen and sold them to NASA at retail.
2. Everyone originally used pencils, but it worked badly because graphite would get into the air and cause shorts.
3. For a long, long time, the Russians have bought space pens from the exact same manufacturer as NASA.
4. Your little anecdote sucks. No one cares what you'd rather have.

Re:Still. Worst. Mouse. Evar.

[evilskull]

I actually got one today and you can rest anything you want, fingers or otherwise, on the mouse. There is no "sensor." It's a ball instead of a wheel and it's smaller than the average scroll wheel. It does register as a standard middle click when you click it, if you set it to "button three" instead of "Dashboard," which is where it's set by default.

The side buttons aren't touch buttons like everything thinks, but push buttons that you have to physically push (or squeeze) to register as a click. It's a smooth unit, but not slippery, though time remains the ultimate judge of that as I sweat on it and get it dirty; I just wish the damn thing wasn't white. It'll be black within a year from all the grime (oil, dead skin, etc) in the average house or on the average hand.

wow, the innovation of it!

[cahiha]

I assume having suggested this several times on Slashdot over the last few years counts as prior art? Or will Apple attempt to patent this, too?

Apple has released a multi-button mouse?

[Burning1]

Apple has released a multi-button mouse?

Oh shit! THE DESTROYER IS MANIFEST!

Tiger only?

[argent]

The option just doesn't show up unless your input device supports it.

And it also doesn't show up unless you're running Tiger, apparently.

I've got one Mac still running Jaguar, and two running Panther. I hate feeling like they're trying to pressure me into upgrading.

Great, but....

[The Lynxpro]

where's the Bluetooth 2.0 edition?

You know apple users would...

[mc900ftjesus]

completely freak out if they SAW two buttons on a mouse. Does anyone feel that Apple does stuff differently just to say they do things differently? Like that kid who ate paper in grade school, who just did it so you'd ask. Well, Apple is the kid who eats paper.

Some stuff works (iPod kind of) and some stuff is really stupid and pointless (one button mouse, artsy-cute-VW Bug computers). The kid who ate paper never made an iPod I guess. But even the paper eater would want a wireless mouse many years after these are common place.

If anyone thinks this is that ingenious, the Logitech V500 is the king of innovative mice.

Mighty Mouse is a Cartoon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Mighty mouse is a cartoon. Did they buy the rights for the name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mighty_Mouse

clean

[sewagemaster]

well i can see it being much easier to clean and wipe. no need to worry about water seeping through the holes and gaps of the mouse.

I actually PREFER the one button mouse

[miketkrw]

It took a little getting used to when I switched from Windows to Mac but now I prefer Apple's one button mouse. It is more comfortable in my hand and instead of clicking with your finger I can just push the whole mouse down with my hand. I find this creates less carpal strain (and pain). As a side note, my Apple wireless mouse gets 2 to 3 months life on regular batteries. Different stroke for different folks. I have friends who swear by trackballs but I find they cause me intense wrist pain. Kudos to Apple for creating a mouse that accomodate itself to the user and not the other way around. That is the purpose of technology isn't it?

I think that this is a good thing

[eadint]

I think that this is a good thing for most users, it looks like jobs created a one button mouse that simulates a multibuttomn mouse for the club handed users. personally i have to use a trackball because i work with 3d and animation myselfe.

nearly 700 comments on a mouse

[chunkwhite86]

A new mouse is released and there are nearly 700 posts to discuss it. this is truly the domain of the ultra geeky.

2D Scrolling

[rdunnell]

IBM (probably Logitech rebadged) used to make a mouse a while back with a Trackpoint in place of the scroll wheel. I remember we got a bunch of them instead of the normal mice once with a shipment of thinkpads. They were pretty cool but they all wore out or got taken home or whatnot.

There have also been a few random cheap imports that I've seen that had a small scroll ball (although nowhere near like this one).

But, yeah, this is probably the first time someone's made one and then made a push to actually sell the thing. I rather liked the idea of a trackpoint mouse and wished someone would release one, but this will work fine too.

apple vs fanatics

[willCode4Beer.com]

Its always apeared that its the apple apologists, not Apple, who make the excuse that grandma can use one button more easily.
I think the real reason is design and style. Apple has focused more on how the computer looks than on how easy it is to use.

Apple's site says "Single buttons looks, multi-button charm". This suggests that the one button thing has more to do with *looks* and design, than functionality. There was the recent no-button mouse by Apple; pretty but a pain to use. There was the infamous iMac gimee-carpal-tunnel-hockey-puck that stylisticaly was a good match for the iMac but, this was definitely not designed for human hands (chimpanzes maybe?).
The statement from the site, "for the best of both form and function", suggests this is true (single button=pretty, multi-button=functional).

From the site, "Stick with single-button simplicity or click with multibutton efficiency." *suggests* that they've known all along that the single button is less efficient.

Clicking the "Design" link takes us to a page with the statement "Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do", again suggesting that the primary driving force for the mouse has been form over function.

Then I ask myself, why I am contributing to any forum about the mac mouse, that will always sink to flaming hell.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[hondo77]

From the site, "Stick with single-button simplicity or click with multibutton efficiency." *suggests* that they've known all along that the single button is less efficient.

Grandma and grandpa aren't efficient. Get it yet?

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the real reason is design and style. Apple has focused more on how the computer looks than on how easy it is to use.

Is that a joke, or a troll? Either way, that's one of the stupidest statements I've read all day.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Paradox]

Its always apeared that its the apple apologists, not Apple, who make the excuse that grandma can use one button more easily. I think the real reason is design and style. Apple has focused more on how the computer looks than on how easy it is to use.

There is an element of truth to this. Apple's design is one of the key components of their products. Even some of the uglier macs still looked better than most PC offerings (you with the window on the side of your PC, I'm frowning at you).

Apple's site says "Single buttons looks, multi-button charm". This suggests that the one button thing has more to do with *looks* and design, than functionality ... The statement from the site, "for the best of both form and function", suggests this is true (single button=pretty, multi-button=functional).

You make it sound like a bad thing, that Apple places a higher priority on form than function. Sometimes, this is the right thing to do. The classic Apple example is the iPod. While it may have very competitive peers, it's still on top because it's competitive and looks good. This may seem stupid and shallow to some people, but I argue that we can't ignore the looks and form factor of our products forever.

From the site, "Stick with single-button simplicity or click with multibutton efficiency." *suggests* that they've known all along that the single button is less efficient. Clicking the "Design" link takes us to a page with the statement "Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do", again suggesting that the primary driving force for the mouse has been form over function.

Of course it is less efficient! Who ever said it wasn't? But it looked better, and made some people feel less intimidated. And on my laptop, I really don't feel the loss except when using XCode.

Raw efficiency is not the only consideration though. For example, it'd be more "efficient" to do away with the mouse and use an elaborate keyboard region system to do image editing. But, the mouse is a nice, easy to use interface that maps well to several kinds of input devices.

It's not just about efficiency. The best products also look good and feel natural. Look at the popularity of a wikipedia. Certainly, a targetted web application with lots of software agents to assist and a core team would be more efficient, but Wikipedias social dynamics and interface encourage so many people to use it that it ends up being a better product despite being less efficient.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[mrchaotica]

From the site, "Stick with single-button simplicity or click with multibutton efficiency." *suggests* that they've known all along that the single button is less efficient.

It also suggests that they've known something else all along, too (hint: re-read the first part of that quote).

Re:apple vs fanatics

[javaxman]

Its always apeared that its the apple apologists, not Apple, who make the excuse that grandma can use one button more easily.

Maybe, but I'm telling you, I tried a multi-button mouse out on both my mother-in-law and my three-year-old son; it pissed off both of them. Why is it hard to understand that a simple, one-button mouse has it's uses, or at least users ?

As far as the single-button mouse being a pain to use... I don't know what you're talking about there, seriously...

No, I don't use a single-button mouse myself... I use a multibutton trackpad with scroll feature...

Re:apple vs fanatics

[raju1kabir]

Maybe, but I'm telling you, I tried a multi-button mouse out on both my mother-in-law and my three-year-old son; it pissed off both of them.

Likewise my mother has a horrible time working out the whole left-button, right-button thing. She can never keep straight which one she is using, or should be using. I find the same confusion occurs to various degrees with many people who haven't grown up on computers. Apple really is onto something with the one-button mice.

And yes, I too use a multi-button mouse on my Mac. But that doesn't mean I think it's best for everyone.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[willCode4Beer.com]

I guess my 80 year old 5 button mouse (with scroll wheel) weilding grandmother, my 100 year great-grandmother, and my three year old son are freakin geniuses compared to the average Mac user. Maybe I need to find some *average* people to hang out with to see why this is such a big deal.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[hondo77]

Sorry to feed the troll but...

It's not a big deal...which is the point...which you clearly don't get.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[milkman_matt]

Of course it is less efficient! Who ever said it wasn't? But it looked better, and made some people feel less intimidated. And on my laptop, I really don't feel the loss except when using XCode.

I like that you put 'made some people feel less intimidated', and I can help back that up. I get calls from a couple people from time to time who've been using computers for several years, but when I mention right clicking or dragging or right clicking AND dragging or anything like that, they get confused.. "so I click and hold it down and then move it? oh wow" ...now can you imagine the confusion when contextual menus and right dragging come into play? S'why I like the single mouse button, it's either "click" or "click and drag" no need to worry about contextual menus or "i right click and drag? or left click and drag!?"

As far as not missing the mouse button on your laptop, I don't miss mine either, because Apple has gone through the trouble of making their OS extremely usable with the lack of said button. I like the fact that this new mouse button needs to have the second button 'enabled', that way for the clueless, they won't be confused (as much) when we try and tell them how to copy a file.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Patric Bach]

Then I ask myself, why do you draw conclusions about what Apple thinks from their MARKETING BLURBS???

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Hognoxious]

For example, it'd be more "efficient" to do away with the mouse and use an elaborate keyboard region system to do image editing.

Would it?

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Anonymous Coward]

I find the same confusion occurs to various degrees with many people who haven't grown up on computers. Apple really is onto something with the one-button mice.

Yes, with Apple's help we will ALWAYS have people who can't cope with two mouse buttons.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[TheDormouse]

Its always apeared that its the apple apologists, not Apple, who make the excuse that grandma can use one button more easily.

It's neither. It's grandma, grandpa, and many other folks.

Every time I go to a flea market, there's some vendor selling a crop of Pentium-166's for $90 a piece. They usually have Win95 or 98 preloaded and people can come up and play around with them. People who buy these are by and large technologically illiterate. The majority of the 30-something non-English-speakers I have observed playing around with these before they buy them only right-click. The concept of clicking icons is intuitive enough, but these folks pop a context menu every time since the choice of the button to click is totally arbitrary.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[mr100percent]

Yeah, they're freaking geniuses if you can tell me that they understood a mouse intuitively and without the need for any PC training sessions by you or anyone, including that "Video Professor" who sells his CDs on late-night TV. Mac users generally don't need mouse lessons.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Feral Bueller]

"I guess my 80 year old 5 button mouse (with scroll wheel) weilding grandmother, my 100 year great-grandmother, and my three year old son are freakin geniuses compared to the average Mac user. Maybe I need to find some *average* people to hang out with to see why this is such a big deal."

...or you could just stop shitting up an Apple thread and get back under my desk.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[willCode4Beer.com]

Windows mouse lesson. Here's how a mouse works.
Push this button to do this. Push the other one to do other stuff.
That's like what, 20 seconds.
Mac mouse lessons, click to do stuff. Click and wait a couple of seconds to do other stuff, or hold a button on the keyboard and click to do some other stuff.
Linux mouse lessons
Click to do some stuff, rick click to do other stuff. Select some text (its copied auto-magically), middle click to paste.

People need *training* for that? I hope you're joking. How is click and hold or hold keyboard button and click more intuitive than a right click?
I'll counter myself and say that someone who can't figure out how to use a mouse in more than a couple of seconds probably SHOULD get a mac. Because that same person will never be able to keep they're computer spyware and virus free. They'll probably end up with a zombie PC causing problems for the rest of us. At least they'll have reduced exposure to those risks.
Hmmm.... considering the number of windows users with spyware/virii/worms, maybe many more people should convert.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[raju1kabir]

Yes, with Apple's help we will ALWAYS have people who can't cope with two mouse buttons.

My mother uses Windows and always has.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[jedidiah]

Understanding the notion of cause and effect is hardly genius. This has nothing to do with age or previous computing experience.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[jedidiah]

If the notion of dragging something else around with the mouse is too much for them, nevermind the Mac. NO general purpose machine is going to be suitably simple for them.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[jedidiah]

It works pretty good for drafting, actually.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[jedidiah]

I didn't "grow up" with the current generation of GUIs. Yet, the first time I ever saw a GUI of any sort I was quickly able to understand that the two buttons on the mouse did different things. It doesn't take too much mental power to use the other button if the first one wasn't the right one.

What's the point of a discoverable interface if the end users refuse to do any discovering?

Re:apple vs fanatics

[jedidiah]

It's hardly arbitrary. The "default" button typically works out to be under the index finger of the hand holding the mouse.

What you describe would require "everyone" to be specifically going out of their way to use mice in the most awkward way possible.

typical human + dominant hand + dominant finger

There's nothing "arbitrary about that".

Re:apple vs fanatics

[damsa]

everyone knows that non english speaking illiterate people are all left handed.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[node 3]

Its always apeared that its the apple apologists, not Apple, who make the excuse that grandma can use one button more easily.

There is nothing intuitive about the second mouse button. How many times have you told someone to "click on the icon/button/text" and they ask, "with which button?". Yes, once you know, it sounds like a stupid question, but people ask it all the damned time, so it's clearly something you can't just pretend doesn't happen.

I think the real reason is design and style. Apple has focused more on how the computer looks than on how easy it is to use.

No, it's really easy to make a two-button mouse look nice. None of Apple's mice, until the current "no-button" Pro Mouse, would not have been significantly uglier with two buttons. You're reading a marketing page, and pretending it's a technical page. The real innovation is that Apple made a one-button mouse far more powerful than your average five-button mouse.

From the site, "Stick with single-button simplicity or click with multibutton efficiency." *suggests* that they've known all along that the single button is less efficient.

Of course they've known it's more efficient, that's why they've supported multi-button mice since the '90s. Or perhaps, can be more efficient would be a better way to phrase it. For many people, the additional button isn't more efficient, it's less efficient, causing more confusion, wrong clicks, and motivates programmers to hide functions behind the other mouse buttons.

Clicking the "Design" link takes us to a page with the statement "Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do", again suggesting that the primary driving force for the mouse has been form over function.

Yeah, it's real damning that the "Design" page would promote the, um, design of the product.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Anonymous Coward]

Its always apeared that its the apple apologists, not Apple, who make the excuse that grandma can use one button more easily.
And then, maybe one day, you will watch your own parents use a computer, and see how they are intimidated and concerned that they are doing the wrong thing and hitting the wrong button. Multiple buttons do confuse some people.

I mean seriously, it was impossible for my Dad to switch from IE to Safari because the Submit button was on the other side of the URL. I tried to explain that you could just hit Enter, but god forbid the complexity of having to memorize keyboard commands!

Re:apple vs fanatics

[belroth]

To quote H.L.Mencken: "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
And GUI design is definitely a complex problem.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[Trepalium]

People do need training to use a mouse. Pointing with the mouse and double clicking is often a difficult skill for new users of the device. Most people grasp the pointing part of mouse operation fairly quickly, but a lot of people have a great deal of difficulty with double clicks. Making two successive clicks without moving the mouse can be a challenge when you're not used to using your hands like that.

If Apple wanted to improve their usability, they ought to ban double clicks, rather than worry about additional mouse buttons. Teaching people how to point the mouse -- tough but not bad. Teaching people which button to click -- fairly easy. Teaching people to (single, or double) click without moving the mouse -- far more difficult.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[mrchaotica]

I agree. However, the conclusion that Apple's answer is wrong (which is what you seem to be implying) can't be deduced from those postulates.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[jdog1016]

Nice analysis. Of course a multibutton mouse is more efficient. Apple knows this, we know this, everyone knows this. Of course, not using a mouse at all is more efficient still. Yes, I'm one of those guys who still uses vi for all his coding, and yes, I type code in circles around just about anybody that doesn't. But this isn't about efficiency--its about simplicity. Ever try to teach children or elderly how to "right-click?" The cognitive gap is larger than you'd think. With a one button mouse, the use is obvious. Its a device with ONE button. That button affords clicking, which is the only thing you need the mouse to do: click on things. A multibutton mouse, on the other hand, has two buttons. Let me ask you this: What is so special about that left mouse button? Does it afford clicking in a more primary way than the right button? No, its just one more button, immediately raising the question to anyone who has never used a mouse, "Which one do I click?" That's the beauty of the one-button mouse. With only one-button, all those UI inconsistencies and blunders that come along with having two or more buttons are immediately avoided, at the cost of some efficiency.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[belroth]

...the conclusion that Apple's answer is wrong (which is what you seem to be implying) can't be deduced from those postulates.

I agree that one cannot definitely conclude that Apple is wrong - but similarly one also cannot conclude that Apple is right either.
An interesting datum is of course the decision by Apple to sell a multi-button mouse...

My opinion is that multiple buttons are useful in many situations but these should not be required. One of my gripes with Windows is the difficulty of executing some operations without a mouse. IMNSHO a GUI should be usable solely with keystrokes - albeit at a possible performance hit.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[balamw]

You're assuming that people instinctively know how to hold a mouse, with their primary finger on the primary button.

Unfortunately my 2 year old didn't get the memo, and likes to hold the mouse askew so that his right index finder ends up on the right button. (Perhaps it is a better fit for his small hands that way even though I already set the kids up with a smaller Logitech notebook mouse). This behavior drives his 4 year old brother nuts as the little one is "runining all his games."

When I get a chance, I plan to install Mouseware and assign both buttons as left clicks as the standard XP driver only lets you switch buttons not assign them to arbitrary functions.

And, when the Intel based Mac Mini comes out next year, it's going to replace the box they currently use, probably with one of these mice.

Balam

Re:apple vs fanatics

[mr100percent]

You haven't spent time teaching computer classes at an Apple Store or local library, have you?

Double-clicking isn't easy for lots of people to learn. If you try teaching, you'll be pulling your hair out by the end of the day, because people either double-click too slow, so lightly, or accidentally drag when they click.

I never said click and hold, or control-click was more intuitive. The point is that MacOS users didn't need to do those actions in the first place for almost all the functions. They're all found in menus or keyboard commands.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[mr100percent]

It's not cause and effect that's the hard part. Even babies with a light switch understand that. The issue is that people don't double-click at the right speed, or click and accidentally drag, or click and accidentally highlight, or accidentally click the wrong mouse button, and can't figure out how to dismiss the contextual menu without either making it reappear elsewhere, or accidentally clicking at something underneath the cursor. Go watch an unexperienced person try to use a PC, it's painful to watch.

Re:apple vs fanatics

[holy zarquon's singi]

There was the infamous iMac gimee-carpal-tunnel-hockey-puck that stylisticaly was a good match for the iMac but, this was definitely not designed for human hands (chimpanzes maybe?).

You see a lot of these in Primary Schools where the main users do have really small hands ... and don't use the computer for extended periods.

Cue the clitoris jokes...

[KnarfO]

...or are Apple FanBoys not into that sort of thing?

;-P

Re:Cue the clitoris jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a clitoris?

Heh...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't help but think that a similarly funny headline would be "Subway Toasts Bread". Oh wait, they already did that...

It certainly sounds intriguing

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't understand how the fuck it works, because of the fucking marketing diagrams. The strain gauges are pretty obvious, but is that a button or a trackball or a puck?

Had they just shown that's a ball on the top, and not a puck or a button, it would have made things clearer from a marketing sense. Like, make a wire-frame image of the mouse, and show a solor-colored trackball on the top.

Some people don't actually read the article, FYI.

BYOKDM, Life is Random, ... you're getting a Dell?

[argent]

Scratch that off the list of things Steve Jobs would never do!

"No ugly monitors on nice Macs" (no headless Macs) became "BYOKDM" (Mac mini)
"Best $50 you ever spend" (no flash iPod) became "Life is Random" (iPod Shuffle)

But Steve never said "no intel CPUs". They even had an Intel version of Rhapsody in the '90s.

What's next? Retail Mac OS X for PCs would probably be the biggest shocker...

Mice like pedals

[aclarke]

I look at the Apple mouse kind of like I look at pedals for a high-end mountain or road bike. A number of very expensive bicycles don't come with pedals. While this may sound bizarre, the reason is that the manufacturer knows that whatever type they spec will likely be replaced by the owner anyway due to the cyclist's individual preferences. So why spec $150+ pedals on a bike when the owner's just going to replace them anyway?

The one-button mouse for the Mac was great for first-time users. Those of us who actually CARE about having more than one button probably already have a mouse we like and wouldn't use the one that came with our Mac regardless of how many buttons it had. This new mouse, at least, provides the simple one-button experience for newbies but allows the rest of us to use it as a multi-button mouse. It seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

Re:Mice like pedals

[HardCase]

I look at the Apple mouse kind of like I look at pedals for a high-end mountain or road bike.

No, no! You're supposed to use car analogies!

-h-

Re:Mice like pedals

[aclarke]

OK, let me try again.

I look at the Apple mouse kind of like I look at pedals for a BMW.

Side button location

[mr.bri]

Is it just me, or are the side buttons located *exactly* where your thumb would normally rest?

As in, any time you grab the mouse you activate the button?

And yes, they are buttons. "Force-sensing" buttons. MightyMouse

I like the idea, but it seems like the button placement could be an issue.

Repetative Stress Injuries

[omeomi]

Anybody have any idea if this would help those with RSI's like Carpal Tunnel? Seems like it would...I know the mouse is more problematic than the keyboard for me...

The original Apple 3-button mouse...

[argent]

It was to force developers to create one-button GUIs, which forced ease of use.

Except that they then had to add a second and then a third button... on the keyboard. Now it's a five-button mouse, with four of the buttons on the keyboard, and no easier to learn than a five-button mouse would be.

The original Xerox design settled on the same set of actions using a three button mouse: the three buttons had the effect of click, shift-click, and control-click - so you could use the system with *just* the mouse, you didn't need the keyboard at all. At one point one of the developers was even writing code with just the mouse to see how well it worked (obviously, doing a lot of cut and paste).

The original one-button mouse did however make it easier to give demos.

Kind of like the dock.

No bluetooth?

[Sp00nMan]

Explain to me why they didn't release a bluetooth/wireless version of this mouse?? I was so excited about my upcoming mac mini purchase when I saw this, until I realized it was wired :(

Re:No bluetooth?

[Kevinv]

no kidding! I already have a mac mini and apple's bluetooth keyboard rocks, but my mouse is a non-bluetooth wireless logitech which has crap for range.

Before you get too smug

[snowwrestler]

This is an accessory mouse, introduced by Apple (smartly IMO) to compete with Logitech for power users' accessory purchase dollars. It's a money grab, not a paradigm shift.

All Macs that ship with mice will continue to ship with the one-button mouse.

100% Compatible with XP?

[benbry]

I know Apple says its win2k/xp compatible but does anyone know if ALL of its features (squeeze, roll, scroll,little speaker sounds,etc..) will be compatible?

Re:100% Compatible with XP?

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything will work. There will even be a bonus feature not found on Macs. When used with a Windows box, the mouse's speaker will emit a smug little snicker whenever you run antivirus or antispyware software, or when the machine BSODs. :-)

This is more confusing

[MemeRot]

You click on the left side of the mouse, in some vague area not represented visually on the mouse, for a left click. To scroll, you slide your finger around in a cross shape, again on a vague area not visually represented on the mouse.

Tell me - isn't that a ton more confusing than a two button mouse with a scroll wheel? Two buttons - left and right. Clearly visible to the user. Tactile feedback when you click. A scroll wheel - an obvious choice for scrolling, again with tactile feedback as you move up and down.

This is not a mouse for beginners. Squeezing on the left or right of the mouse causes applications to suddenly open? This is for looking cool while sipping latte in Starbuck's.

Re:This is more confusing

[mrchaotica]

To scroll, you slide your finger around in a cross shape, again on a vague area not visually represented on the mouse.

So, am I imagining that grey circle right where a scroll wheel would go, then?

Re:This is more confusing

[Anonymous Coward]

To scroll, you slide your finger around in a cross shape

Holy shit! Taking RTFA to a whole new level of stupidity. It's not "LATPFTFA" (look at the pictures from the fucking article). There is a trackball-style ball that you scroll with. The arrows represent directions, not where you rub your fingers. Jesus, ten seconds worth of reading (even just SCROLLING DOWN THE PAGE) would have shown you that much.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[j!mmy v.]

Hi, no one is playing CS, DoD, BF2, etc. on Macs [yet*], which are representative of the games where that type of performance counts.

This is -more- than enough mouse for WoW and everything that'll run in OS X.

"bind MOUSE3 gold_exploit_mode 1"

* yes, I'm excluding Doom 3 on purpose.

Jedi Mouse

[bynary]

No wonder they call it the "Mighty Mouse", it's Force-sensitive (look at the picture of it. The side "buttons" are labeled "Force-sensing").

I don't get it... -

[voxel]

A one button mouse, and a 101 button keyboard.

Why is the mouse that much different than a keyboard...

Write the word "Action" on the left button, right the word "Info" on the right button.

Its a two button keyboard that you can slide around... if you can't figure that out....

Same as Microsoft . 'Lockin'

[zymano]

Microsoft locks you into their software.

Apple locks you into both software and hardware.

Do you really believe this is an upgrade over a regular 'cheap' mouse ?

Think about it.

Mac API has explicit support for right-clicks

[I'm Don Giovanni]

Assuming that an app wants to use "right click" to display a context popup menu, the Carbon Mac API supports the kEventClassWindow / kEventWindowContextualMenuSelect event which is automatically sent to the app's event handler when the user right-clicks or control-clicks; the app responds by displaying the context menu via the ContextualMenuSelect function (related functions are IsShowContextualMenuEvent, HandleControlContextualMenuSelect, PopUpMenuSelect). I'm not familiar with the Cocoa api, but I imagine that it also has explicit support for context menus (likely more high-level than Carbon).

So yes, OS X has supported this from the beginning, but no, having one default button doesn't force developers to make a system that is accessible without context menus because commands in context menus are accessible via control-click even if the user's mouse only has one button.

Note that Microsoft and Logitech mice have provided right click functionality on Macs for years (and both are better than Apple's mice, IMO).

Also note that even before OS X, apps could support "right clicks" via control-click, but they had to explicitly check whether the control key was pressed during a click, which isn't necessary for OS X's Carbon Event Manager and Cocoa api. And before OS X, if one did use a two button mouse, the mouse driver had to map a right click to a control-click since apps explicitly processed control-clicks in those days.

Why not?

[snowwrestler]

Just keep both fingers on the thing and push down. I don't see why that would register out of the driver any different than two physical buttons. If fact it seems like it would work slightly better, since there's no need to coordinate two separate finger pushes--you just have to have them both touching the surface of one big button.

Apple idiot

[Jebus175]

So I was in my econ stats class today and we are in a computer lab because we mostly use excel. Well before class I was reading slashdot, and saw this article. I showed the girl next to me because she is mac fan.

"Finally, they decided to change their "standard" mouse with more than one freaking button"

And she replies, "I hate how apple is trying to be more like PCs, it makes me sick."

"It's just a mouse, I'm sorry but their old design was horrible, it didn't even fit in your hand, and just one click, and no scrolling of any sorts. I mean don't you use the scroll wheel on the pc?"

I then began scrolling the mouse wheel up and down on the website that was on my screen. (We are using PC's in the lab)

She replies, "No I never use it, I just hit the down arrow on the keyboard, or click and drag the scroll bar on the side of the window."

Okay you'll do what you like, and I have no problem with that. But here is the real kicker.

"I only use the scroll wheel if I need to do something fast.......

Isn't the whole POINT?! Scrolling with a mouse is simply quicker, more efficient, and more functional.

She also went on to say "I hate what apple is doing, trying to be like PC's, now apple computers are going to have tons of viruses."

Doesn't security have much to do with the operating system? I really don't think mac osx is going to have viruses just be adding more buttons to a mouse.

First off, I am not really a apple/mac user, but I do enjoy the company, and wouldn't mind owning a powerbook if I had the money.

Second, for what I do, I like a WINDOWS PC.

Finally, don't flame me for being anti-apple, I am not. I am anti-mac fanboys/girls because they are such idiots sometimes.

Re:Apple idiot

[binary paladin]

"I only use the scroll wheel if I need to do something fast."

What... the... fuck? Is it just me or does this fucking defy stupidity? I like the slow way better because it's the Apple way!? Does she churn her own butter too!?

(Sorry, this part has little to do with your post, but now I feel like griping a bit.)

This PC/Apple 1/2/37+4 wheels+a motion sense+a toaster button mouse thing is ridiculous. Like I give a shit what something ships with by default. I got my Mac, I plugged in the $20 Logitech I'd been using for years on my Windows PC and my Linux box. Amazingly enough, I had a scroll wheel that worked and a second and third button that worked in all of them. It's like magic.

Also, the next hardware ignorant jackass Mac user that tells me that moving to Intel is some virus gateway is just getting gunned down. Aren't these retards supposed to be SO ignorant of the hardware that they don't even know about the switch? It's like the worst of both worlds.

Could be worse though. Could be someone who thinks multibutton mice are a viral gateway. Don't touch those mice! They're like cheap hookers!

"Finally, don't flame me for being anti-apple, I am not. I am anti-mac fanboys/girls because they are such idiots sometimes."

No, it's cool to hate the fanboys. There is a difference between a fanboy and someone who supports/likes something. I own a Mini. I love it. I love OS X. However, I don't make offerings to the Church of Jobs or take it as a personal insult if someone doesn't like Apple. It's just a fucking computer. I don't pull out a jihad on people who buy Ford instead of Dodge either.

Urban Legends never die...

[argent]

Yup, reminds me of the pen story from NASA. Apparently, NASA used some really complicated engineering to make a pen that would write in 0 gravity situations. Invested millions of dollars into it.

Russia, on the other hand, used pencils.

Great story, but it's completely wrong.

Both US and Russia originally used pencils, with the result that their spacecraft ended up full of flammable shavings and conductive graphite dust that caused all sorts of electrical problems, and after the Apollo 1 fire NASA put out a call for a writing instrument that: would work in zero gravity; wasn't flammable even in an oxygen athmosphere; and survived vacuum and extremes of heat and cold.

A private company (Fisher, I believe) ended up doing the development work and selling it... and made a mint on the "Space Pen" that could write at any angle.

The Russians ended up buying the Space Pen from Fisher just like NASA did.

These days most cheap ballpoints have enough pressure in the ink reservoir that they work fine in orbit... because being able to "write at any angle" is useful down here on Earth as well. I don't think I'd want to expose them to vacuum though, not after having a shirt ruined by a ballpoint that leaked on a plane flight...

Trademark/Copyright Fun!

[stevemm81]

So, I think what we need is for someone to release
an old Mighty Mouse cartoon with the Beatles' White Album as soundtrack, thereby inviting lawsuits from both Apple Computer and Apple Records!

Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[pdc]

Marketing people always prefer the complex to the simple -- it gives them more features to boast about.

The advantages of the single-button mosuse for the experienced user should be that it is faster (since manipulating it needs less precise movements) and your index finger does not wear out so quickly because you can split the load between your first two fingers.

But you would hardly expect them to say that on the page describing their new multi-button wonder mouse. In order to sell the new model, you always have to rubbish the old model, even if last week you were describing it as the acme of human achievement...

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[willCode4Beer.com]

"The advantages of the single-button mosuse for the experienced user should be that it is faster"

Hmmm...
Faster = click and wait
Faster = control-key click
Slow = right click

How could I argue with that.

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[gartogg]

Since the other two retarded satements have already been picked, I get the leftovers. Oh well.

"Marketing people always prefer the complex to the simple -- it gives them more features to boast about."
I assume that the apple marketing people, then, are miserable about the iPod. It's got one scroll tool, and looks streamlined. Its really been hell selling it. They can barely get them off the shelves.

And yes, the point of the mouse is that it has multiple buttons, clearly, not that there is anything new about the product. I mean, damn, when will PCs catch up to the Mac's new and improved multi-button mouse? Someday, who knows, people may even have a THIRD mouse button, possible in the middle, for use in truly complex, UNIX OS's.

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[rjung2k]

"I assume that the apple marketing people, then, are miserable about the iPod."

I don't think Apple's marketing people are like marketing people at other companies. The lack of a laundry list of specs for their hardware ads should tip you off to that.

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[macshit]

I dunno; one of the things I've always found annoying about Apple marketing is the Ronco(tm)-style "But wait... there's more! It also comes with this fantastic potato dicer!"

The most noticeable place they do it is in Jobs' glitzy new product intros, but you also see it elsewhere; e.g. on the Apple web page for the Mighty Mouse there's a sidebar (for upgrading to OS-X Tiger) which says "Enjoy 200+ new features". Great. Over 200 features.

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[The One and Only]

Actually, by forcing your non-mouse hand to stay on the keyboard where it can hit the control key, it speeds up transition time and allows you to hit some left-handed command-key combinations without taking your hand off the mouse. So overall you *are* vaster control-clicking than right-clicking.

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[pdc]

If you're going to have more than one button, why not three? I remember SunWindows, where they actually had a system for what sort of thing each mouse button was used for -- following the lead of the old Smalltalk systems, where I get the impression buttons were colour-coded (I've never seen one). I also saw a system whose 'puck' had four buttons arranged in a diamond pattern. Crazy.

Compared to SunWindows, X10 and X11 had more of a free-for-all, with mouse buttons assigned functions almost at random. I imagine the Gnome and KDE guidelines have attempted to reign all this variation in a tad.

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[pdc]

I meant faster in general. Mostly you want to click on things; popping up context menus is the exception, not the rule.

I say 'should' because you have to design the user interface accordingly for this to work. If you can change something with drag and drop and direct manipulation, then that can be faster than popping up a menu or context menu. If you design the GUI around direct manipulation rather than reading menus, then making primary-button use more efficient at the expense of secondary-button use is a win overall.

But it would appear that Apple have decided that this is not the approach they want to take from now on, and that designing user interfaces around invisible context menus is more cool because everyone else does it, and therefore a multi-button mouse is going to be required instead.

Re:Marketing blurb (Re:apple vs fanatics)

[pdc]

I assume that the apple marketing people, then, are miserable about the iPod.

Let me put it another way. Given two products, product A which has few features, and product B which has all the features of product A and some more features, then the average marketing unit will find it more of a challenge writing copy about product A, and that said marketing unit may therefore prefer the more complex product from this limited point of view of saving them from having to think so hard. This does not mean that, given the budget to purchase a bigger-brained marketing unit, you cannot write copy that makes A look good and sells well and all the rest. Apple demands harder work from their marketing department than the average box-shifting computer company, and they reap the benefits.

Mighty Mouse?

[miltimj]

The name "Mighty Mouse"? How cheesy is that...

OMG you are right

[willCode4Beer.com]

Like, whats with people and their 102 button keyboards? There's only what, 26 letters in the alphabet. The rest is just silly. And those media keyboards, what are people thinking, having a button to start the web browser and another one for the media player. They must be to damn lazy to navigate to where the app is installed and double click the executable.
Or those mouse wheels? Whats wrong with clicking on up/down arrows.
Why can't everybody be the same and like the same thing? That would really save money for the guys making hardware. They would only have one model to refine production of. All these choices are going to confuse and empower people. These choices might actually stimulate capitalism as people try to exploit the differences in people and make money. We have to stop this.
I say everybody gets a grey one-button mouse, anyone who doesn't like gets up against the wall.

Ho hum.

[ghost1911]

Since everyone always says, "wow, windows [linux] users finally get features we have in OS X" I'll say, "ho hum, OSX users finally get mice with two buttons, *yawn*"

Re:Ho hum.

[lieven_dekeyser]

Mac OS X has _allways_ supported multi-button mice.

Missing the point

[tgibbs]

This is not a mouse for beginners. Squeezing on the left or right of the mouse causes applications to suddenly open?

These are not hardcoded behaviors, they are software configurable. So for beginners, it will function as a single-button mouse, just like Apple mouses of the past. As users become more sophisticated, they will have the option of turning on the advanced features.

Re:Missing the point

[Belial6]

How does the mouse know when it is a beginner or advanced user that is using it. This isn't a wallet that you stick in your pocket when you walk away. It is a computer. This means that others in your (well, maybe not yours, but in many) households, and occasionally guests are going to want to use the computer. This mouse is definitly 'not ready for the desktop'.

Re:Missing the point

[tgibbs]

How does the mouse know when it is a beginner or advanced user that is using it. This isn't a wallet that you stick in your pocket when you walk away. It is a computer. This means that others in your (well, maybe not yours, but in many) households, and occasionally guests are going to want to use the computer. This mouse is definitly 'not ready for the desktop'.

In OS X, each user has an account with his or her own personal preferences for everything--how the dock and mouse behave, where the doc is on the screen, which programs open at startup, etc., etc. So the mouse doesn't need to "know" anything. It simply observes the preferences that a particular user has set for it, with the default being beginner preferences. If a computer is frequently used by guests, a "Guest" account can be set up with beginner preferences.

Re:Missing the point

[Belial6]

I have seen hundreds of computers in homes. None of them have set up seperate accounts for seperate users. That may work for businesses with policies about logging off when you walk away from your computer, but not in the home.

Re:Missing the point

[tgibbs]

I have seen hundreds of computers in homes. None of them have set up seperate accounts for seperate users. That may work for businesses with policies about logging off when you walk away from your computer, but not in the home.

OS X really encourages users to set up personal accounts. People who are too unsophisticated to do so are probably the same ones who are best off with the mouse running in its default single-button mode.

Re:Missing the point

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife and I have different logins, and we are both complete Mac newbies. It's the logical thing to do when people prefer to work different ways, or even if they just prefer different desktop backgrounds. 90% of the home-user Windows machines I see daily (working in a computer store) have at least two logins on them, and we are working in a rural area!

Re:Missing the point

[FidelCatsro]

I have seen hundreds of home computers set up for multiple accounts. Mainly families with 2 or more accounts set up , either one for the parents and one for the children or a separate account for each person.
Main reason People mention to me of why the use this set up is for personal files (work mainly and school) and for Desktop backgrounds.
Many a family argument has occurred due to changed desktop images , very silly indeed.
I wonder on the real percent of users who have this set up , My word is pure anecdotal .

Re:Missing the point

[MoneyT]

Assuming you don't have 2 accounts, this is accomplished by the fact that defautl behavior in two button mose says that if a user clicks with their fingers covering both sides of the mouse (like most novice users) it's a left click.

Up is down, black is white...

[Puk]

and they've moved the mouseball on top of the mouse. I guess the next step is an optical tracker to replace that. Or not.

-puk

p.s. I do agree about wanting feedback on clicks beyond audio. But I'll wait and see -- maybe it will feel fine.

Dr. Scholl says...

[fabu10u$]

Apple has added a rolling acupressure point to their foot pedal to massage your aching feet!

So what's the optical resolution, Apple?

[writertype]

Seems odd that Apple wouldn't mention this. Not to be a troll or anything, but Apple has this habit of going into explicit detail about technology when it's first, and then sort of whistling and commenting that "well, the technology isn't the important thing" when it doesn't have the latest and greatest. Just seems a little odd not to include it.

And it's not on the specs page.

I also thought wires were bad? On the other hand, I could see Apple come out with a wireless Apple Super Extreme UWB version at some point in the future.

Why stop at Mighty Mouse?

[heychris]

Danger Mouse: Apple's first true 2-button mouse. One button clicks, the other deletes your hard drive.

Modest Mouse: The old 1-button mouse rebranded, but with indie music cred. Free iTunes Music Store credit for 'Roll On'.

Mickey Mouse: While using the mouse, you are gently sedated.

The trail of bad predictions about Apple

[Infonaut]

They'll probably also tell me how "beleagured PC maker Apple" is ready to shut down any day now.

That's not the economists talking, that's the industry pundits. I enjoy looking back at some of their better pronouncements from time to time. It's a hobby of sorts:

"You just wouldn't do that. You wouldn't do something that disruptive.'' - analyst Tim Bajarin, quoted in the Mercury News, May 24, 2005, a few days before Apple announced a switch from IBM to Intel processors.

"I believe this is a purely negotiating move by Apple to grab some attention and headlines and to point out that they're feeling underappreciated by IBM" - Evin Krewell, editor in chief of the Microprocessor Report, quoted in the Mercury News, May 24, 2005, a few days before Apple announced a switch from IBM to Intel processors.

"Stick a fork in 'em - this Apple is cooked." - Robert Thomson, Financial Post, 2/20/2003

"For those who love Apple's products, this is all just so typical. This company has made an art of innovation -- from the personal computer itself to the point-and-click operating system -- only to invariably surrender the high sales ground to the boring knock-off artists who copy Apple's best ideas into a new and slightly cheaper model. So it's not surprising Wall Street is already bracing for another disappointment." - Steve Maich, Macleans.ca, 2005/05/09

"Folks, the Mac platform is through... ." - John C. Dvorak, 1998

Count David Goldstein, president of the Dallas-based growth-strategy consulting firm Channel Marketing Corp., among the critics of Apple's retail plans. "It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for them to open retail stores," he says. - May 01, 2001 Macworld Magazine

"The iPod, with its backward-looking feature set and dramatically inflated price, has only its good looks going for it." - Lukas Hauser, the MacCommunist, 10/23/2001

"This Mini Mac, or whatever they're calling it, isn't just stupid. it's groundbreakingly stupid. And it's far worse than anything we read about in the rumors. It's far worse than I ever could have imagined. Apple's gone and invented barriers to Switching that weren't even previously on the radar." - billpalmer.net, 1/11/05

Stephen Baker, an analyst at NPD Intelect, said that the iPod will likely stand out for its large storage capacity but predicted that the device may have trouble digging out a niche in the market." - CNET News, 10/23/2001

Just to show you that the Slashdot crowd isn't immune:

"No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." - Slashdot's CmdrTaco, referring to Apple's brand new iPod music player, October 23, 2001

"There is no future in a $400 (about $250 too expensive) firewire-only (5% of computer users) hardrive-based (read: fragile) mp3 player. Any one of these critical flaws might doom the product - take them all together and you have another classic corporate farce." - Slashdot reader Dave Wood on Apple's new iPod music player, October 23, 2001.

I'm not sure I'd do any better as a pundit either. I didn't think Apple would switch to Intel, and I didn't think Apple would release a headless Mac.

form over function, yes

[willCode4Beer.com]

Here are some quotes from Apple (from TFA) to exemplify it:
"Single button looks, multi button charm"

"Mighty Mouse combines the capability of a multibutton ... best of both form and function"

"Stick with single-button simplicity or click with multibutton efficiency"

"Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today's multibutton world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do"

It looks like Apple's decision has always been form over function.
some examples of mice not meant for human hands:
no-button mouse
iMac hockey puck

I'm using one of these right now- my impressions

[Ewann]

It's an interesting design. I picked one up at lunch time today (east coast!)

1. The whole top surface clicks down, just like the current one-button Apple mice.

2. The little ball does, in fact, move, like a trackball, rather than an eraserhead pointer.

3. If you have two fingers on the mouse top, and you try to right click, it doesn't know which finger you're using to click, so it defaults to normal left-click mode. So, you have to lift up your index finger (for right-handed use) when right-clicking.

4. You have to squeeze the lower buttons together fairly firmly to get it to register a click. And, yes, there's a tiny audible electronic click noise when you do that. There's also a tiny click noise when using the scroll ball, to give you some feedback.

5. Clicking with the scroll ball means pressing it down and then pressing hard enough to click the entire mouse top. Not difficult, and it makes it hard to accidentally click the scroll ball.

6. I think when I hook it up to my iMac tonight and I can adjust the scroll ball sensitivity, it will be much more useful. It's a little too sensitive on my PC. It's better than the Microsoft mice that have wheels with no detents, but only marginally so. Scrolling through powerpoint slides one at a time, for example, is difficult, and I have to do that a lot as a marketeer.

A nice design- I think the OSX control panel will make it really usable.

Ewann

Name license

[rdunnell]

They did credit Viacom (who I assume owns the copyright to the Mighty Mouse cartoon character) at the bottom of at least one of the pages that I saw. It must have at least been thought of by someone in their legal group.

Re:Name license

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh.. noted! Didn't see it before.

Now its just got to go wireless....with bluetooth

[TheBitterEngineer]

dvforge.com has been cleaning house with a bluetooth apple styled mouse, and I'm happy to get a right click. But wouldn't be better to wirelessly connect to your bluetooth enabled powerbook without any wires?

Please include a BTO option

[Val314]

it would be great if all Macs had a BTO option to get the new Mouse instead of the old one.

$25 PC running Win 2K? Try $20.

[Anonymous Coward]

can a $25 thrift shop PC even run win2000 or winXP?

You bet. Heck, I bought one for only $20 and it already had Windows 2000 Professional on it. Granted, it's a little sluggish on a 200 MHz processor, so I may end up formatting and sticking NT 4 on it instead (which will run very well.)

If you count the $5 monitor I bought at the same place, then yes, you can get both a monitor and a PC that already has Windows 2000 on it for precisely $25. :)

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Maybe. Maybe not. It's hard to say without actually trying it.

What this means for me is that it looks interesting enough that I will try it out in the store. If this were $20-$30 I'd buy it without question, but $50 means I'll give it some scrutiny. If the scroll point/wheel is what I think it is, and the overall thing feels right, then I will buy. The two-way scroll wheels seemed kind of nifty, but this seems more functional than the competitor's.

Lawsuit coming...

[ZorinLynx]

Actually, Apple might be sued soon. Afterall, "Mighty Mouse" is the trademarked name of a little rodent super-hero!

Doesn't anyone at Apple watch classic cartoons?

-Z

Re:Lawsuit coming...

[patrick0brien]

Apple licensed the name from Viacom Consumer Products, owner of the rights of the little cartoon mouse - they're covered.

Re:Lawsuit coming...

[geoffspear]

The bottom of the page mentions that Mighty Mouse is copyrighted by Viacom.

This probably shows that the person who wrote the page is an idiot, since the page contains no Mighty Mouse cartoons whatsoever and copyright doesn't apply, but I'm also assuming it shows they've got Viacom's permission to use the name.

Re:Lawsuit coming...

[coolgeek]

I highly doubt the trademark filed for the cartoon character includes the "Computer Hardware" category.

Re:Lawsuit coming...

[larkost]

I guess you missed the tag line on the page:

Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved.

*hint* Apple licensed it.

Re:Lawsuit coming...

[Lars T.]

RTF Apple page: "Mighty Mouse © Viacom International Inc. All Rights Reserved."

Re:Lawsuit coming...

[Anarchitect_in_oz]

No lawsuit coming....
All those talks of late to media companies where just tracking down the rights to "mighty mouse", and had nothing to do with the fabled iVideo Store.

why does "double click" still exist?

[GodWasAnAlien]

"grandpa, who had to practice to learn to double click".

This is true. I have seen people learn how to double click.

And there is no need for this. Double clicking is an obsolete concept.

I have read that mac/windows users are actually afraid of accidentally clicking something. That's why they like double click. Are they also afraid of accidentally clicking a web link or a toolbar button (which are single click)?

I have seen windows users double click on web links, and double click toolbar buttons. This inconsistency and confusion does not need to exist.

Single click operation is very simple, and can work the same across all buttons and links. Click to open. Possibly hold and move to drag (not essential operation. but easier for granpa to learn than double clicking). And of course, the second button can remove confusion. Left click to open. Right click for advanced/non-esential operations including move.

Re:why does "double click" still exist?

[Anonymous Coward]

Single-click works fine for opening/activating things, but it is useless for selecting things.

That's why mouse-over highlighting and single-click activation are restricted to Web applications: there's no way to make multiple selections in native applications using just mouse-overs. Even in Web applications, you have to click list items, checkboxes, and radio buttons to select them.

Re:why does "double click" still exist?

[GodWasAnAlien]

"Single-click ...useless for selecting things"
"no way to make multiple selections"

To select, just "lasso" the items, or use ctrl/shift selection modifications.

This is how KDE works.

And I am not talking about mouse-over behaivior. Any mouse-over behaviour should be cosmetic only, not fuctional.

Re:why does "double click" still exist?

[Anonymous Coward]

> To select, just "lasso" the items, or use ctrl/shift selection modifications.

Right, but you still have to click (and drag) in order to select. If the user understands single-clicking to mean "activate/open," then having to click-and-drag over or around an object (or set of objects) is more effort than just a single-click selection.

> And I am not talking about mouse-over behaivior. Any mouse-over behaviour should be cosmetic only, not fuctional.

In most web applications, mouse-over highlighting is functional: it is feedback to indicate that something is clickable. It's sort of like selection, but not exactly because you "de-select" the item by moving the mouse away from it. Intuition tells you that a single mouse pointer only allows you to select a single object.

I think the fundamental difference is in the application paradigm - single-click activation is great for "browsing" applications when you're in a "navigation" mode. My point is that it's not as suitable for other paradigms, and that double-clicking still has a place in user interface design.

The original idea was that the mouse was a way to extend your hand into the computer - people will put their finger on a piece of paper to indicate the focus of their attention to you, and tap on it (like a double-click) to emphasize what they're doing with it. They will also put their finger down on it to drag it over the desktop, so pressing the mouse button is a very natural and intuitive action in the desktop metaphor.

Re:why does "double click" still exist?

[GodWasAnAlien]

The distinction you make between web item clicking and desktop item clicking is artificial. What if you go to a web/ftp page with an index of file links that you want to copy. This situation is no different than the desktop.
You can have mouse-over feedback in the desktop similar to in a web interface (both windows and kde). There is no reason to have separate paradigms. This will only confuse an initial user.

Yes, single-click only is quite suitable. I have only used it for years, and am annoyed when I have to double/triple/...click in old style UI's. Though even most double-click UI's do tend to gain more single clicking in the for of tool bars.

A comparison to pencil/paper may no longer be meaningful, as many people now use a keyboard/mouse much more often. But if someone were asked to select (with a pencil), symbols printed on paper, they would cirle them, not tap +them with the pencil.

Yes, circling them may be more work then tapping, but the assumtion is that multiple selection for moving, deleting, ... occurs much less often than activation. So by giving activation the simplest interface (single-clicking), there is less wasted effort. And yes, double clicking is more work. Imagine if you had to double click for every web link. It would be as tiring as reading/writing meaningless comments on slashdot.

Apple Viruses

[Blitzenn]

There is a yes and a no answer to the virus question on the new Apple x86s. The yes part is, now that they have adopted the x86 as the processor of choice, they get it's inherent problems too. The big one is the buffer overflow problem that an OS cannot completely overcome due to the chips physical architecture (that many viruses exploit to run their code). Yes there are some tricks that can be played to redirect the issue, but it is a chip problem, not an OS problem. The trick is to make sure an application cannot be hijacked in a way that can cause a buffer overflow to being with, the devil is in the immensity of the details there. That exploit simply does not exist in current G line of IBM processors, or in any of the other mainline RISC processors. So Apple will need to address how it will handle a buffer overflow event and attempt to keep track the issue or coding effectively. Something MS hasn't yet gotten a handle on.

The no part of the answer is that the Apple market share is still small enough that the virus writers simply do not target it. They want bang for their 'buck' or time spent and market share dictates that is the Windows platform. So probably we won't see much virus activity targeted toward the Apple OS until such a time as they gain more market share and become a juicy target for the writers of such code.

First Review

[nuxx]

I know this posting is a bit late and a little far down the page, but I picked up one of these at lunch today, and I've posted a first review / initial impressions over on my LiveJournal. The bit I wrote can be found here.

In short, I really like this mouse... It's got a great feel to it.

Why two buttons are minimum...

[rmdyer]

I consider the two button mouse to be the minimum because of "objectifying" on screen objects. This I consider the left button to be used for the objects public methods and the right mouse button to be used to edit the object's properties. Scroll wheels and such go even further to allow interaction with the objects.

I also don't like being considered a "less than capable" person. This means that if you think people are capable, for example, of only ever playing a "one string guitar", then that is what you will get. I consider myself to be ambidextrous and will be able to learn to take advantage of multi-input devices like a virtuoso of an instrument.

In pedaling a single button mouse to the common user, Apple has done a disservice to users of Apple software because developers are less likely to adopt the on screen "objectifying" model. I for example have used Apple's "iTunes" software only to find out that right clicking on the song title does nothing.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[Anonymous Coward]

The website claims Windows compatibility, and it's a USB device. Lots of people play games on Windows, and you can buy the mouse separately. Is it enough mouse for everything that'll run in Windows?

Right

[MemeRot]

So after a year you realize you can turn on these features and you do so. Then you still have the problem of not being able to tell where the buttons are or where the scroll is. Sorry, but those need to be visually and tactilely apparent to the user while using the mouse. Even with buttons, when I click on something and nothing seems to be happening I wonder 'Did I actually click it?' and often click again. I would be doing that all the time with no tactile feedback.

Re:Right

[rramdin]

Most people can type at least 50 WPM blindfolded; I think they can figure out a 5-zoned mouse inside 5 minutes.

Re:Right

[tgibbs]

So after a year you realize you can turn on these features and you do so. Then you still have the problem of not being able to tell where the buttons are or where the scroll is.

Funny. I don't have to look at my (regular, three button) mouse to tell where the buttons are. In fact, I never look at my mouse at all unless it isn't working. Like most mouses, the buttons are flat, so I can't feel them, but I don't need to; I know where my hand is. The left button is under my forefinger and the right button is under my second finger. I can feel where the scroll wheel is because it sticks up (perhaps that is why the Apple mouse has that little button on top where other mouses have the scroll wheel).

Re:Right

[MemeRot]

I can feel my buttons because they have a finger shaped depression in them. If I just put my hand back on the mouse after typing my left finger often ends on the scroll wheel and I slide it to the left. From what I could see of that mouse it was just completely smooth. Fine for a one-button mouse, stupid for a multi-button mouse.

Re:Right

[MoneyT]

Having used one of these myself allow me to brush aside some of your fears.

1) The mouse provides tactile feedback. You push, the mouse gives and then clicks, just like any other mouse.

The difference is in what happens when it clicks. In standard two button mode, if the mouse senses your fingers on the left side of the mouse or covering both left and right, it will act as a left click. If it senses your fingers on the right, it's a right click. And this can all be configured for however you want it to work. In short, it's a pretty damn elegant and functional solution to making a 0 button two button mouse. I would highly suggest if you get the chance to head to an Apple store and try it out, it's a lot better than the description makes it sound and feels quite natural.

2) Scrolling is not via some touch area, it's done with the little ball that sits at the top of the mouse and operates much like a trackball does, giving you scrolling in all directions.

Re:Intelligence != willingness to tolerate messy U

[Yusaku Godai]

Apple's point with the mouse buttons has always been that they convolute UI, giving sloppy developers an excuse to drop loads of "the menus we didn't make easy enough to reach"

But then Apple's "sloppy" developers didn't make the menus I need easy enoug to reach either. Or at least they didn't make them fast enough to reach. Apple programs still have menus along the top of the screen just like anything else--which to me is a perfectly logical arrangement. Without right-click, there is no context menu. And context menus are what they were talking about when they were talking about making menus easy enough to reach. Sure, there are other ways to access a context menu, but as far as user-friendliness goes, another big shiny button is a lot easier than Control-click.

Language

[ari_j]

If I'm a dad with young children, ... it's actually a pretty fucking cool idea.

If that's not just a hypothetical, can I ask you a small favor? Please set a good example for your young children when it comes to swearing. I'm not asking you to force them never to swear and to censor all they hear and read, but they should learn that there is a time and place for everything, and foul language is most effective when used in the right venue and sparingly.

Of course, assuming that it's not obnoxious as hell to use, this mouse and the multi-user preferences of MacOS make it pretty fucking cool, I have to agree. :)

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, you shouldn't swear. But if they are real young and they can't read yet; you can swear you're damn fuckin shitty ass off and they can't tell - yeah!

Re:Language

[ari_j]

I still want my kids' first words to be "daddy" or even "ugly" than "motherfucker." Call me old-fashioned.

It's about time

[kngfisher]

the single button mouse has been a pain. I don't know why apple held onto it for so long. I guess now that pc users are moving to mac more and more and they want their 2-button mouse functions without having to remember any additional key, apple has no choice but to produce a better mouse. Quote from www.apple.com "The Button That Wasn't Alas the fate of the one-button mouse in today's multibutton world. Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do? Thanks to a smooth top shell with touch-sensitive technology beneath, Mighty Mouse allows you to right click without a right button. Capacitive sensors under Mighty Mouse's seamless top shell detect where your fingers are and predict your clicking intentions, so you don't need two buttons -- just two fingers. Click on the left side to use Mighty Mouse in its simplest, single-button form. Click on the right to access contextual menus within applications and edit, copy, label or download from your mouse. It's simple sleight of hand."

Just use Konqueror and a Thinkpad.

[Erris]

Apple promisses:

At $49, Mighty Mouse features the revolutionary Scroll Ball that lets you move anywhere inside a document, without lifting a finger. And with touch-sensitive technology concealed under the seamless top shell, you get the programability of a four-button mouse in a single-button design.

Konqueror has offered the same functionality for years. They use vi style, hjkl motion for scrolling so you never have to take your fingers off the keyboard. Macros and shortcuts from the keyboard are, of course, more numerous. Between that and Thinkpad keyboard joystick / below the keyboard buttons, any mouse is a clumsy input device.

At home I use a Logitec ball mouse which can be picked up for $30 or so. It's not as nice as the Thinkpad input, but I don't have to drag it around.

Re:Just use Konqueror and a Thinkpad.

[Anonymous Coward]

And your point was? That I should replace a Mac with a Thinkpad (!) and... Konq?

WTF??

Come on Guys...

[ColonelClaw]

Has anyone here actually used the damn thing? So many opinions... I've ordered one out of curiosity, if it's better than my logitech laser thingy i'll stick with it, if not i'll go back When it comes to human interface design, time has tought me that Apple are generally worth trusting

Re:You don't get it do you? No, you don't get it..

[FredFnord]

NOTHING IS HIDDEN IN RIGHT CLICK MENUs ONLY...period

Oo. It's good to know that someone who has used every single piece of software on the face of the earth is here to reassure us that everything's fine.

When, in fact, I know of a couple pieces of MICROSOFT software -- let alon non-MS stuff -- where right-clicking is absolutely necessary. MSSQL 2k, for example. How do I know this? Because I often access a server running MSSQL from a Mac with VNC, and I haven't been able to get the right-mouse-button-alternate to work properly with the VNC client, and thus there are a couple of things I simply can't do. I'm SUPPOSED to be able to do them, but the operative menu has them greyed out when the contextual menu works. Why? Because nobody tests that part of the software because everybody uses the contextual menu.

Another example would be our CRM software, Goldmine, but that's such a stinking pile of crap (making all the MS software we run look good by comparison) that there are a bunch of things you can't do on it no matter how many mouse buttons you have. However, it is also a piece of software that extremely inexperienced computer users (sales guys) often have to use.

And then there are the computer games that do something specific when you right-click. Inexperienced people do play computer games, and on the PC there are quite a lot of them that can't be played without a right mouse button, and I'm not talking about the computer-game-junkies kind. I know of a bridge game that you can't play without the right mouse button. Your grandma might be using that game right now, except she can't figure out how to click.

On the Mac? Not a problem.

But no, you don't care about facts. Since you're too narrowly experienced to have ever seen this problem, you assume it can't exist.

It's nice to know Slashdot hasn't changed during my little break.

-fred

Its just a mouse

[andrelix]

Why is that when Apple comes out with anything, it makes major headline news. Seriously, it is JUST A MOUSE!!! Whatever the cool factor is, whatever the zealots thing (from both sides), in the end, it moves the little cursor on the screen and allows you to pick things. I give Apple a lot of credit, they are one of the most intuitive companies out there, just dont loose focus... :) :) ;)

finally....

[Ichigo Kurosaki]

the one thing that pissed me off more than anything on a mac is solved..... I'd get one but the move to intel really turns me off....

Hell Froze Over

[Bellum Aeternus]

Hahaha...

All those Mac people that used to tell me that I'd have to pry their one button mouse from their cold dead fingers will be so eating their words now.

Oh, this is just killin me... ^_^

Re:Hell Froze Over

[Swift2001]

I'm quite sure that many Apple people will keep using the one-button mouse, for the exact same reason you prefer the two-button one: they're used to it. BETTER doesn't enter into it.

For ultra realism...

[bayvult]

Why stop with a speaker that generates a "click"? The mouse should also have an internal receptacle that slowly disperses cigarette ash, pizza topping and pubic hair over the surface of the desk - or graphic novel, or whatever surface us being used as a mouse mat.

This receptacle would need to be refilled periodically, like a Hoover bag, but in reverse. However Apple could patent the formula and interface, so you only use "genuine Apple Mouse grime".

I see Upside Margin Potential!

There's feedback...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using one of these right now and you still push the whole thing down and it "clicks" like the no-button mouse. It just "knows" which finger you're pushing down with...

The scroll ball is a bit... small, but seems ok to me so far.

The look, is ...

[NeedleSurfer]

Straight taken out of an healthcare supply store, I wouldn't be surprised to find this mouse in the emergency waiting room beside the stetoscope and the machine they take your blood pressure with...

conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

In short: [Stay away from [old people AND computers]] OR [remove computers from old people and replace by cd players].

I think it's time for some uber simplistic OS/device/front-face with integrated browser and audio/video player/downloader for noobs. It seems that many people only use their computer for that purpose so why complicate it with all the other stuff. If they want more they should be willing to learn how to use a computer.

Molest-a-Mouse

[MikeWasHere05]

Roll... squeeze... sounds like you gotta molest your mouse to get a context menu. I can see it now, greasy haired 50 year old men at the apple store talking to the mouse. "Hey... I got some candy in my car. Want some?"

Execution...

[cosmic_0x526179]

1. Design something insanely great
2. Have the suits write a patent that is both comprehensive and confusing
3. Have it made in China (where rumors are not allowed)
4. Drop it on everyone out of the clear blue sky
5. Support both Mac and Windows
6. Profit!

and lo, Teh Steve has finally figured out how to smack Teh Bill at his own game.

Re:Intelligence != willingness to tolerate messy U

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

...once Apple had grudgingly allowed the Control-Click thing, all its systems accepted multi-button mice without any adjustment at all. Apple gave up the point, but continued to include one-button mice just to be contrary. Er, I mean "Different."

Nope, they refused to ship multi-button mice because they knew that if they did developers would rely upon them. By not shipping multi-button mice as the default (note the mightymouse ships in single button configuration by default) they made certain no reasonable developer would include functionality only in a menu that needed a right click (or modified click) to access. This means the UI of almost every program on OS X works well with touchscreens, tablets, input devices for the disabled, and even voice recognition. It also means power users can customize the right button to do whatever they want without worrying about losing access to functionality. I for one am much more confident in my ability to define a menu full of scripts, shortcuts, services, and other tools associated with a given application than I am confident in some developer who has no idea what I am trying to do.

Have you ever used Notepad on Windows? Ever used the right-click contextual menu in it? It's completely useless. I for one would rather have that mouse button be worth something rather than wasted.

Force-Sensing Side Buttons

[Khyl'Dran]

Force-Sensing Side Buttons

Stretch out with your feelings to use them!

Yes, Mighty usable.

[Frobozz0]

Yes, Apple knows how to make the mundane usable. Let's not forget that the iPod is "just an mp3 player." Except it's the best one in existence because of the total package experience and usability.

I would love to know how many times you looked at your mouse to figure out where the buttons were prior to clicking. Zero? I'm guessing never. You put your hand on the mouse and the rest is done by memory. The buttons are in the same spot the buttons have been on every mouse that has every existed in modern computer use. They didn't MOVE the buttons.

This mouse is a major improvement in how mice are designed. It has form and function that I was supremely impressed by. At first, I thought: a two button mouse? Great. Who cares? Then I looked at how they approached and and realized the MAJOR design wins:

1) It's configurable per user. Not a new concept but done well.

2) It doesn't confuse one button use with two visible buttons-- one button use is the same as it always has, and so is two button use. In no other way would this be possible without electrostatic technology. Brilliant.

3) A 360 degree scrollwheel. Finally taking a trackball and making it useful for scrolling while keeping the precision most people enjoy about a mouse.

4) The 4th button requires a press on both sides of the mouse to ensure good ergonomics.

5) Wintel folks finally escaping Windows for OS X will have a familiar 2 button design done the Apple way.

Re:Yes, Mighty usable.

[Itchy Rich]

1) It's configurable per user. Not a new concept but done well.

Per-user settings are a super-user feature. This isn't what I'm talking about. My entire point has been about people who aren't super-users. We both admit that per-user configuration is useful, and we both admit that this functionality existed before, so this is a non-issue.

2) It doesn't confuse one button use with two visible buttons-- one button use is the same as it always has, and so is two button use. In no other way would this be possible without electrostatic technology. Brilliant.

Agreed, two equally prioritised buttons might confuse the issue unnecessarily. However, good two button mice these days don't lend equal priority to the buttons. This mouse doesn't show you where any of the buttons are, how many there are, how big they are, doesn't give hard feedback when you press them, and (I'm guessing) don't require a significant minimum force (allowing you more accidental clicks). Everything would be fine if it wasn't for the electrostatic technology that's been included purely for aesthetic reasons.

3) A 360 degree scrollwheel. Finally taking a trackball and making it useful for scrolling while keeping the precision most people enjoy about a mouse.

Nice feature. If it works as well as a regular scroll wheel I think all mice should adopt it. I'd have to use it to be sure though. Regular scroll wheels have tactile feedback that tell you exactly how far you're about to scroll before the microswitch kicks in, and auditory feedback once it does. Does this one?

4) The 4th button requires a press on both sides of the mouse to ensure good ergonomics.

This takes prior knowledge (as opposed to pressing a single button which is hardwired into anyone over the age of three) and also requires a minimum level of co-ordination. Good UI design should take the minimum amount of prior knowledge, and this mouse fulfils that requirement poorly.

5) Wintel folks finally escaping Windows for OS X will have a familiar 2 button design done the Apple way.

I'm discussing this rationally in terms of the usability of each feature, and the interface as a whole. If you're going to talk about "escaping Windows" you can't expect anyone except a Mac fanatic to take you seriously.

I'm not saying this mouse is rubbish. I'm saying it's not very accessible.

Apple will never release...

[tommyleebyron]

"Apple Computer will never sell a computer that uses multi-button mice" I will kinda of miss that trolling bit... the end of an era...

Re:Apple will never release...

[MacUNIX]

They probably aren't going to start selling computers that HAVE to use a multibutton mouse.

The functionality is there, sure, but you don't have to use the right click to do things.

Having worked in support in the past, I can honestly say that, for some people, double-clicking was a chore...and then once you wanted someone to right click, it was a nightmare. I honestly wanted to jump through the phone or over the desk and just do it for them.

I think the key feature is that you don't NEED the extra buttons for the OS to function normally, but they're there if you're so inclined.

Point and Click. Not Point and Think and Click.

Re:Apple will never release...

[biglig2]

I think it is very significant that out of the box this mouse is not configured for right-click.

So they could bundle it with Macs and not run into HID issues.

Re:Intelligence != willingness to tolerate messy U

[lgw]

Quick, what are the rules for what goes in the right-click as opposed to a (tiny, indecipherable) toolbar icon or the drop-down menus? As a user, what can I expect in those three spots?

It's very simple and intuitive. The menu tree has every action you can take, the context menu has the subset of actions that can be performed on the selected item. I seriously can't figure out how to use a Mac, becuase I figure out how the UI for a new tool works by right-clicking on things to see what the tool can to with each thing. Select a noun and rightclick for the verbs.

Toolbars are mostly an annoyance, though they're handy for selection lists (e.g., select some text and change the font) because a selection list doesn't work in a menu.

Grandparents == Toddlers? Ouch.

[cheesy9999]

If i were a grandparent I wouldn't want to be put on the same level as a toddler...but maybe that's just me...

Shouldn't take long

[SkimTony]

I'm sure in another couple weeks someone will port Linux to this mouse. I wonder if they'll be able to make alsa support the built-in speaker?

Re:Shouldn't take long

[advocate_one]

I'm sure in another couple weeks someone will port Linux to this mouse. I wonder if they'll be able to make alsa support the built-in speaker?

ha ha... I just knew I should have put that coffee down before checking my replies... very funny... :)

OT: New banner

[SlowDancing]

"The Nuts and Volts of News for Nerds." ...? Is that a pseudo-cross-sponsorship thing, or an impending takeover?

What exactly do you want?

[AtOMiCNebula]

What do you want Apple to do? PC enthusiasts have laughed for years at the idea of a one button mouse, and now that they've released a multi-button mouse, people are still laughing. Apple is trying to move into the x86 market. They've made a mouse that can use more than one button, to please the market a bit.

When you criticized them for having a one-button mouse, what did you expect them to do, if you're still criticizing them for releasing a multi-button mouse???

Re:What exactly do you want?

[ThinkingInBinary]

It's not that we're criticizing them for making a multiple-button mouse. We're criticizing them because they have an operating system that has clearly needed multiple buttons (unless you want to go all the way up to the menus, you use option-click to pop up the context menu) for a while and that they refuse to just accept a multiple button mouse. This mouse still keeps with the idea that "one button is easy", when it really isn't. I use a PC most of the time, and when I use a Mac, I find that things like making Command-Tab (a.k.a. Alt-Tab) switch applications instead of windows, using modifier keys instead of mouse buttons, and having applications in different places in the Dock depending on what I'm doing with them (closed or visible apps on the left, minimized windows on the right... it should have a launcher menu, and then just all the open apps, visible or not. it would be much easier to switch windows than Command-Tab, digging through them, or Exposé), are all annoying. All the little "simplifications" get in the way. Yes, you do need to do multiple things to one on-screen object. No, the solution is not to put everything else in the menu. No, the solution is not to remove functionality. It's to have multiple, consistent, well-defined buttons.

Re:What exactly do you want?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shock, horror! What do you expect? From what you're saying, Apple should be duplicating the Windows interface just so it makes your life (as a Windows user) easier? What you're saying is that if it's not Windows then it's wrong. I use Windows and Linux at work (programming) and my Mac at home, and enjoy using the Mac better.

And for heavens sake,if you don't like the new Apple mouse, THEN DONT BUY ONE -- stick with your 10 button Logitech mouse. No one told you that you had to buy one.

Re:What exactly do you want?

[argent]

I want a pony.

Apple copies AGAIN

[12Iceman]

For a company that seems to pride itself on originality they seem to be turning their backs on everything they once stood for. First, they claimed that the PowerPC architecture was superior to x86, and now they have changed their mind and switched to x86. Now they have gone from always claiming the simplicity of a one button mouse was better to introducing their NEW AND IMPROVED multi botton mouse. I hate to tell you guys, but its been done.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[Jerry Rivers]

"Now they have gone from always claiming the simplicity of a one button mouse was better...."

When did they claim that?

"I hate to tell you guys, but its been done."

What's been done? A Company introduced a product which is new to their line? That happens every day no? I don't understand what you are getting at.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[zpok]

"I hate to tell you guys, but its been done."

Aaaah, but not with panache (grin).

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[j!mmy v.]

they claimed that the PowerPC architecture was superior to x86, and now they have changed their mind

That a company argues that its products are superior should not be causing sufficient surprise to warrant a /. post on your part.

The PowerPC architecture was superior in some ways, and the decision to go with Intel was due in no small part to IBM's basic inability to deliver (or even be a good business partner.)

Now they have gone from always claiming the simplicity of a one button mouse was better

Not "always." There are plenty of great reasons to lock functionality to a single mouse button; the new mouse retains the ability to do this per-user.

I hate to tell you guys, but its been done.

So has trolling. Hint: some of Apple's best design work is subtle, possibly exceeding the awareness-threshold of trolls.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[djkuhl]

"

For a company that seems to pride itself on originality they seem to be turning their backs on everything they once stood for. First, they claimed that the PowerPC architecture was superior to x86, and now they have changed their mind and switched to x86. Now they have gone from always claiming the simplicity of a one button mouse was better to introducing their NEW AND IMPROVED multi botton mouse. I hate to tell you guys, but its been done.

"
Sometimes it's not about doing it first, but doing it RIGHT first.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah -- like Microsoft.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[12Iceman]

So has trolling. Hint: some of Apple's best design work is subtle, possibly exceeding the awareness-threshold of trolls Wow, another apple fanboy who defends apple products to the death and calls anyone who points out the obvious flaws in apples marketing stategy "trolls". Get over yourself, its a computer, not a way of life.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[12Iceman]

When did they claim that?
How about the years and years that apple computers have shipped standard with a one button mouse while claiming to be the best fastest computers available.

What's been done? A Company introduced a product which is new to their line? That happens every day no? I don't understand what you are getting at.
What i was trying to get at was that a multi button mouse with scroll features in not the most original peice of hardware on the planet. They even ripped the name for it from an old cartoon series.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[binary paladin]

"They even ripped the name for it from an old cartoon series."

Seriously, now you're just pushing it.

Please name one other computer platform out there (or OS or hardware vendor or whatever) that doesn't make bogus/exaggerated claims. Microsoft is the king, Linux slapdicks aren't far behind, BSD does it, Sun does it, HP does it, Mozilla does it, Adobe does it, does it, etc.

Apple doesn't seem to pride itself on originally so much as it does for the best user experience. In that sense it actually delivers, unlike a number of other vendors that come to mind.

I mean, fucking-a, it's their marketing page! What marketing department is every going to say, "Hey we just copied this because we thought maybe it was time to catch up with the rest of the universe?" No one. At least no one that is selling something to make money.

Why do half the people here hold Apple to some special standard? They certainly don't misuse the word "innovation" more than the Microsoft camp or, heaven forbid I say it here, the Linux/GNU camp.

I haven't used this mouse yet so I don't know about its merits or whether it's just a gimic. Whatever. However, just because cars were invented back in the day doesn't mean that modern cars are devoid of innovation. This mouse might be a joy to work with. If it works better than anything I've used, it's innovative.

Re:Apple copies AGAIN

[binary paladin]

1. You're the troll, not the parent.

2. Yeah, it is a computer, not a way of life. Which makes me wonder, why did this mouse get your panties in such a twist that you had to get on Slashdot and bitch about it?

I haven't figured out what's more annoying, fanboys or their equally retarded antagonists (such as yourself). (And the parent was certainly NOT a fanboy.)

"to clearly defined buttons."

[EraserMouseMan]

yea, it's supposed to be, ". . .two clearly defined buttons". Good. Thanks.

Man, you guys say the fan boys are crazy

[earthtoandy]

And yet a topic about a mouse has 950 comments so far....

so what does that make you Apple Hating Enthusiasts? Freakin bonkers?

Coming to his senses

[Nice2Cats]

Let nobody say that you can't convince Steve Jobs that he is wrong -- it just takes, what, 20 years or so. Hey, that is still better than Bush...

As a Switcher, let me state that the one-button mouse was a complete and utter pain in the ass, especially after using three buttons with KDE and Gnome. One of the first things I did was get a Logitech, which is a bit better, but unfortunately the problem goes deeper: Second mouse button support is half-hearted at best (try that second mouse button in iMovie to see what I mean). Hopefully, now that multiple buttons have been sanctified, this will change.

Re:Coming to his senses

[earthtoandy]

no i dont think it will. they want you to program the vbuttons to preform actions. Its not that right click functions are half assed... they aren't supported on purpose! Its part of the aqua interface. Apple does not believe in relying on right click contextual menus. And they try and enforce this idea with all of their software developers

Re:You don't get it do you? No, you don't get it..

[aptenergy]

If I'm not mistaken, deleting pieces of spyware in Ad-Aware requires clicking each element. Want to select all of them at once? The interface isn't even there. You have to right click to bring up "Select All Objects." Why aren't the most obvious elements of the interface exposed or highlighted (update, scan, delete)?

It's not that Apple doesn't use the contextual menu, because it obviously does. It's because it FORCES developers to think about their interface and the way they design the look and feel of their programs, to make the most used or needed features exposed and ready. Can you ALWAYS design everything so that someone can only use one button? No, because some programs are more complex than others. People pointed out Shake requires three mouse buttons. Now I assume Shake is easy to use, but Apple's not assuming you're going to make Joe User use Shake; Apple's going to assume that a professional video editor is gonna need several functions right where their mouse is at. Compare this to iMovie - I use it regularly with a one button mouse and it works fine. See the difference?

Someone else brought up a question: how do you create a new folder on the Desktop without using the right mouse button or keyboard? Easier or harder than doing it on a Mac?

I have a MS mouse at home for my Mac, but here at work I have a one button mouse and the difference is not extremely surprising. Also, it really doesn't take five clicks in most Apple applications... can you name a task in an Apple app that's extremely more complex than Windows? (seriously curious.)

Also, others have pointed out how difficult it is to teach many computer users the meaning of the right click button. In my opinion a modifier key (that's what they're called) is much easier to explain to a novice than the right click button, and after they gain some experience, they're more than welcome to switch to a multi-button mouse - Apple has always included support for it.

This seems familiar somehow...

[Anonymous Coward]

The TrackPoint Mouse, anyone?

(This was productized in the '90s, with a blue nipple. CompUSA used to have racks of them.)

Actually...

[Chas]

From the look at the site, it IS a multi-button mouse. Just with a rubber shell over the top to hide the buttons. The way they're talking about it, they're simply using the term "sensors" in place of "buttons". Because it sounds flashier.

Re:Actually...

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

No. There's one mouse button, just like the current Apple mice; the sensors detect which side you used to click it with, basically making it a two button mouse.

Re:Same as Microsoft . 'Lockin'

[pammon]

I'm thinkin', but I don't get it. I can and do use any USB mouse I please with my Macs. How am I locked in?

I've placed my order. At the moment, I believe this is an upgrade over a "regular cheap mouse." When it arrives, I'll know for sure!

Re:Intelligence != willingness to tolerate messy U

[Brandybuck]

Why is more than one button on the mouse a bad thing, but more than one button on the keyboard a good thing? I mean, even after accounting for the letters, numbers and shift, you STILL have additional keys on the Mac keyboard! What's that funny Apple key? What's that funny squiggle thing? Isn't the capslock redundant?

Seriously, there are three things you can do with an icon on the desktop: select it, activate it, and manipulate it. Traditionally, even in the l33t Mac world, one click selects and two activates. But with only one button, how do you manipulate? With a triple click? With Windows/Unix use you a second mouse button, but with a one button Mac you need to use a superflous keyboard button instead. In either case, it's a separate button.

No

[MemeRot]

That is a 360 degree "roll" for whatever application might use that. They implemented vertical and horizontal scroll across that mini-trackball from what I can tell of their moving diagram. Which would really suck to use now that I think about it. You're scrolling up really far and right in the middle of that you roll over a mini-trackball. I just don't see that making any sense. And I think you would need to know where the vertical/horizontal scrolling is as you wouldn't want to suddenly be clicking with a button.

Maybe it works well, but it seems very unlikely. Lots of flash and andvanced tech to hide the fact that they're finally producing a two button mouse.

Re:No

[mrchaotica]

The way I see it, it's just like Microsoft's "tilt wheel" except that it actually rolls to the side instead of just tilting. How does that not make sense?

Re:No

[MemeRot]

Look at their page again. It shows an arrow extending about a half inch in the cardinal directions out from the sphere. What doesn't make sense is I want to scroll horizontall all the way across and i have a sphere in the middle to run over. If I wanted a sphere at all I'd get a thumb trackball kind of mouse, where it would be in a much more useful place.

I just think they were too concerned with "wow it's touch sensitive all over the place" and not enough with tactile feedback and ergonomics - my two main criteria in a mouse.

Re:No

[mrchaotica]

Uh, the arrows just show the directions you move your fingers in order to spin the ball. How about you look at their page again? ; )

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[j!mmy v.]

No, it's not. Then again, that's hardly the target market, now, is it?

Apple doesn't make l33t racing-stripe pro-gamer mousepads, either, nor does it allow for easy (L)user modding or overclocking. Again, gamers aren't the target market here.

Will this mouse be The Awesome for design professionals*, regardless of platform? I'd like to think so; we'll certainly see.


* Obligatory "design professionals don't use Wintel boxen anyway" comment deleted.

This is utterly weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the mouse, that's fairly commonplace. The social phenomenon. A company with minimal market share finally goes to the multi button mouse everyone else, the other 95%, has been using for years. They charge $50 for it, several times, maybe 5-10 times the going rate.

And it generates 1,000 comments and a fevered discussion! What on earth is this about? It can't be about computing. Maybe its some kind of religion?

Re:This is utterly weird

[mtec]

Amen, Brother!

Apple vs. the typical trolls is your story

[ianscot]

And your post, unfortunately.

Its always apeared that its the apple apologists, not Apple, who make the excuse that grandma can use one button more easily. I think the real reason is design and style. Apple has focused more on how the computer looks than on how easy it is to use.

Perhaps you should actually pay attention to what both Apple and the "Apple apologists" have said all along, which is that right-clicking is essentially a kludge to the simplicity of the API and UI a user is dealing with. If you can quickly tell me what should go in a right-click, across any type of program, and the answer isn't "Whatever we didn't make accessible enough in the menus, hot keys, or toolbar items," then you may win this argument. But you can't. Because right-clicks are essentially for "the stuff we didn't make easy enough to do any other way." Which makes them, ta-da, a big pain to predict, and totally inconsistent across programs. Will cut and paste be in that menu? I can't tell from minute to minute even within a given program. This is called shoddy UI. It requires the user to re-learn what a very basic feature will do, for every dang program and situation within a program.

Your other points just repeat the mantra: it's about the looks, not the function. You repeat the usual examples:

the infamous iMac gimee-carpal-tunnel-hockey-puck that stylisticaly was a good match for the iMac but, this was definitely not designed for human hands

I have children who were quite young when I got my first (freebie) iMac. They preferred the hockey puck to my Intellimouse and a later two-button trackball I had. Go figure.

Apple's site says "Single buttons looks, multi-button charm". This suggests that the one button thing has more to do with *looks* and design, than functionality.

Way to quote the marketing people for this new product to put words in the mouths of all those designers over all those years.

"Why [are you] contributing to any forum about the mac mouse, that will always sink to flaming hell"? Because you're trolling. Your post is the great great grandson of all the Mac mouse trolls ever. It even includes the world "flaming," for goodness sakes.

Re:Apple vs. the typical trolls is your story

[Hognoxious]

right-clicking is essentially a kludge to the simplicity of the API and UI a user is dealing with.

And there's me thinking it's an acknowledgement of the fact that there's more than one verb in the universe. Go figure.

They preferred the hockey puck to my Intellimouse

So? Since when has ergonomics been subjective?

Re:Apple vs. the typical trolls is your story

[dslbrian]

which is that right-clicking is essentially a kludge to the simplicity of the API and UI a user is dealing with

Just like command-clicking is essentially a kludge to produce the same effect as right-clicking.

I have children who were quite young when I got my first (freebie) iMac. They preferred the hockey puck to my Intellimouse and a later two-button trackball I had.

And possibly other adults who have children sized hands preferred the hockey puck - but for most adults in the world the design was clearly function following form, as that design was all about form and nothing else.

Way to quote the marketing people for this new product to put words in the mouths of all those designers over all those years.

Uh, parent didn't "put words in the mouths of all those designers", Apple did. You can go to their website and see for yourself. And what exactly is "multi-button charm"?? Oh I know, its Apple missing the point again, since multi-button should have more to do with function than charm.

Re:Apple vs. the typical trolls is your story

[deserttrail]

I just wanted to note my disagreement (like you care) with your opinion of context menus.

If you can quickly tell me what should go in a right-click, across any type of program

Sure. Anything that is contextually relevant to whatever you're clicking on. Of course it's not going to be the same in every situation, that's why it's called a "context" menu. Can they be mis- or over-used? Absolutely (see The Gimp), but a few bad eggs do not mean that the context menu itself is bad UI design.

Which would you say is better: A menu full of items which may or may not be relevant at the time, or a menu with nothing but specific relevant items? Now assuming that you chose the same option I did, which would you say is better: selecting something then going to the top of the screen and choosing an item from the menu, or right-clicking that thing and choosing an item from that menu?

For me, the first item is too disjointed. The menu at the top is just too far removed from the selected item, they don't seem "connected" to me. For me again, the context menu makes so much more sense because I'm thinking: Here is an object. I (right) click on it. I don't have to go looking for the proper menu because it's already here with most of the things I'd want to do with/to that object.

YMMV.

Re:Apple vs. the typical trolls is your story

[Paradox]

And there's me thinking it's an acknowledgement of the fact that there's more than one verb in the universe. Go figure.

Multi-button mice are great in certain contexts. Drafting, drawing, coding. Very specific cases where, yeap, you have verb overload. Usually, the people who engage in these activities can learn to use the tools.

But in the generic case, mousing around the finder and the web and email, you generally only need the "tap, hold and drag" verbs.

So? Since when has ergonomics been subjective?

Ever since the Great Specialization Of Double-Ought, when the King of the Humans decided that humans would no longer be exactly identical, and would react and endure under different stresses in different ways.

Re:Apple vs. the typical trolls is your story

[SA Stevens]

Which makes them, ta-da, a big pain to predict, and totally inconsistent across programs.

Many of us believe that the task at hand should be a factor in the design of a particular user interface, and that the user interface should not proscribe the task at hand.

You're certainly free to believe there should be one great interface, and a single unified way of doing all things, that is rigidly defined by the hardware manufacturer.

Many of us are free to disagree with you.

Re:Apple vs. the typical trolls is your story

[Hognoxious]

humans would no longer be exactly identical

People vary in weight. That doesn't mean it's subjective.

People use subjective tests too much. Sometimes what people like isn't what's actually best. Though there are a lot of people (sadly including many developers) that can't distinguish usability from aesthetics.

Apple Keep the Promise

[gabefung]

Depend how you define "button", but physically it is still a one button mouse, so Apple still keep the promise about using one button mouse is easier to use;

For the rest of us, including those who complain Mac have no second key, Apple give u 4! Ahead of other company, uh? ;)

Sure, why not?

[Paradox]

I don't, but the point is that I could.

See, that's the beauty of Mac OS X. The exact same system, coming with stock Apple hardware, is usable by my sister (moderate computer skill, lots of music and IMing and web surfing), my grandfather (minimal computer skill, requires tools for balancing accounts, needs simple web environment), and me (high degree of skill, requires unix development environment and maximum configurability).

Even more amazingly, this degree of flexibility can be achieved on the same machine! Each user can have their own setup and the computer never lets on that its anything else unless you ask.

It's an OS built around progressive disclosure, and it's a really wonderful thing.

Re:Sure, why not?

[cloudmaster]

Hey, no fair replying seriously to my utterly non-serious post. :)

I'll have to tell you that I've set up KDE on a machine that really is shared between everyone from a professional sysadmin to someone who still has a hard time differentiating between when to right or left click, and then I'll have to express appreciation for teh work Apple has done...

How many mouse buttons on the head of a pin?

[Swift2001]

Like the 13th-century dispute between nominalism and realism, this whole debate got out of hand. The truth is, if you started with the Mac, the whole architecture of the platform made two buttons unnecessary. Option-clicking is not a horrible ordeal, and you don't have to "right-click" to find the "properties" on the Mac. There was no huge chorus of Mac users demanding change. Ahem, recently, the Windows crowd started moving in. Apple gave away the one-button and supported just about every USB mouse you could imagine. Well, in case no one's noticed, the Mac's market share is now on its way up, and one button mice make Windows refugees gape in awe, like the apes before the Monolith in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I have a friend who bought a Dual 2.5 G5, and he immediately went out an bought a roller ball with more buttons that you have fingers. Any old port in a storm. I tried to use his computer to fix something, and I needed to read the blueprints before I did anything. It was nuts, to me. That said, I was once a strict one-buttoner. Good enough for Andy Herzfeld, I said, good enough for me. But then I got used to the two-button mouse at work, and the thing that made me buy a Microsoft Mouse was the scroll wheel, not the buttons. And now, this. It's sleek and cool, naturally. There seems to be a few interesting ideas. I ordered one this morning. So much for angels on the head of a pin. Hope y'all like this one, ex-Windows people. If not, buy one of the other gazillion mice that are supported by Tiger.

Oblig. catch phrase

[Anonymous Coward]

Here it comes to save the day!

Your simple, intuitive rule doesn't apply

[ianscot]

It's very simple and intuitive. The menu tree has every action you can take, the context menu has the subset of actions that can be performed on the selected item.

Er, sorry, that's not how things are working for me across Excel, Word, VSS, QVCS, IE, Tera Term Pro, Dreamweaver, and Fireworks, just to name the programs I had open just now. Even at the level of cut and paste commands, whether those'll be on the contextual menu from one object to the next is an open question. When I do use "copy" in Fireworks, the object in my clipboard changes according to which "mode" (bitmap, vector) I'm in. In my telnet session, right-clicking always clones a copy of whatever I've selected at the insert point. It took me a while to realize that, back in the ancient day.

I seriously can't figure out how to use a Mac, becuase I figure out how the UI for a new tool works by right-clicking on things to see what the tool can do with each thing. Select a noun and rightclick for the verbs.

You know an arbitrarily small fraction of the set of commands for any given object, if that's how you're learning things. Seriously. You're never sure if you've got the right thing under the cursor, either. To wit: right-click in html text in IE, and then in the white space around a text graphic. Or how about all the "add-ons" other programs patch in there? I get an enabled "Edit with Altnova XML Spy" option when I'm clicking on a graphic, which won't do anything for me and sure isn't a handy feature.

Toolbars are mostly an annoyance, though they're handy for selection lists (e.g., select some text and change the font) because a selection list doesn't work in a menu.

Toolbars are mostly redundant, I agree, and in the case of Office are a huge thrashing mess. Pretty similar to the world of contextual menus in my book. (But what an odd thing to say about fonts. Font menus were, like, the very first striking thing about Macs in 1984. Because they were so simple to use, you know?)

Re:Your simple, intuitive rule doesn't apply

[lgw]

Strange - I've never run into the problems you seem to have with contextual menus (with the exception of otherwise good programs written by certain Unix guys who don't understand how a Windows UI is supposed to work, or any UI for that matter). IE's behavior seems right to me - right click on selected text, and you get options for that text. Right click on the page in general, and you get options for the page as a whole. Right-click on a shortcut and you get options for a shortcut. Exactly what I would expect.

It's true enough that there are many programs in Windows with crappy UI designs - what else would you expect from the most common platform, where the entry bar is lowest. But the programs I've seen with crappy context menus were so crappy in every other way that I didn't bother with them. It's not like the context menu makes anything worse here!

Touch sensitive or pressure sensitive or both?

[Daath]

Their site says touch-sensitive technology... Does that mean that you have to remove your finger(s) from the mouse, and THEN touch it to click? Or do they actually have pressure sensitive tech in it so that you can have your hand and fingers on the mouse, as normal, and just press your finger of choice down slightly? Still, there's bound to be no small click vibration as from a normal mouse and that has to suck...
It's kind of ...pretty I guess. But I'll stick to my MX510, and upgrade to a MX518 or better when my current one fails.

I'll stick with my trackball

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but I don't have enough room on my desk for a mousepad. I barely have enough for my monitor.

I use a Logitech trackman wheel. Have for years (one cordless, but I threw it at a wall or something after a really bad game of Netrek). I can't imagine going back to regular mice. I do still hit my Thinkpad nipple every once in a while, though.

(Anyone else getting Martian Death Flu right about now?)

Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

What I don't understand is how Windows users can get along with only a few buttons and a scroll wheel. I mean come on. What's with Bill Gates anyway, thinking Windows users aren't sophisticated enough to use more than that. How arrogant.

Snicker.

It's a mechanical button w/ touch-sensitive shell

[Anonymous Coward]

Just thought I would put the plain facts in a subject line to route around the maddening tendency of /. lately to mod up FUD while leaving the truth to wallow at 3 or below.

For those who are still reading, yes: it is touch-sensitive. No: that doesn't mean that there is no tactile feedback. The touch-sensitivity is merely use to differentiate between a mechanical left-click and a mechanical right-click (and to differentiate the two from the scroll-button-click, which also depresses the entire mouse).

The side-buttons, BTW, are NOT touch-sensitive but *force-sensitive*. If you don't think there is a difference, then I'd like to invite you to a game of tackle-or-touch football with a team of orcs that I've specially selected to winnow the /. gene pool.

And yes: the mouse does provide aural feedback. No: this is not a replacement for the basic tactile feedback of a mechanical button. Don't believe me? Take it straight from Apple's 'design' page...

"On Mighty Mouse, the entire top shell is the actual button. As with previous versions of the Apple mouse, simply press on the upper surface to click -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the clever click mechanism."

QED.

DB.

No more stupid Mac complaints!

[TheLittleJetson]

Let's run down the list of classic anti-mac complaints, and look at what Apple has done in the past few years.

The OS is for simpletons - OSX is plenty tweakable now, and a lot more solid than OS9.

They're too expensive - Tell it to the mac mini.

Too much proprietary crap - Apple has been embracing open standards for both hardware and software. Sure, they've still got some proprietary stuff, but compare it to the days of NuBus, ADB, System 7, and all that jazz -- they've made a lot of progress.

One button mouse sucks! - Well....

Re:No more stupid Mac complaints!

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot that old compliant on Slashdot that it didn't run on x86 chips. Combined with Vanderpool you've got virtualization to that occasionally Windows app that the laggard developer didn't port.

Re:No more stupid Mac complaints!

[swordgeek]

You're missing the biggest one, and it's not Apple's fault, at all.

I can't play my games on it. Really, it's games that sell new computers as much as everything else put together. They need to threaten some software developers, and get some more games written.

Re:No more stupid Mac complaints!

[TheLittleJetson]

Yeah, that does suck. Apple needs to contribute some stuff to OpenGL because it really can't compete with DirectX.

At least now that they'll be using x86 processors, you'll be able to emulate winodws a lot faster (or dual boot if you must).

I have one - mini Mighty Review

[macslut]

First, I can't believe how many misleading posts there are here from people.

There is tactile and audio feedback on the mouse. This includes all the buttons and scrolling.

You're not going to accidentally press a button or scroll by resting your finger somewhere...at least not compared to others I've used.

The scroll ball is SWEET! It's very small, which means you don't have to curl your finger much to use it. It's smooth and provides great feedback. It's the perfect blend of not feeling mechanical, but being very deliberate.

One potential downside...some might prefer a hard mechanical scroll wheel because it will give a ratchet like action...usefull for saying you want something positioned 1-2-3... versus a smooth and seemingly infinite positioning.

I can't say that I'm a big fan of the way they did the buttons on the sides. There are two buttons that must be pushed at the same time that result in "button #4". You're essentially pinching the mouse. This feels awkward, but I haven't used it enough to know for sure yet. I do know that I quite often accidentally activate the side (thumb) button on my Microsoft mouse, and may come to appreciate the pinching method.

I'm surprised Apple didn't release a BlueTooth version. Rumors commence in 3...2...1...

I've seen posts claiming that the one button capability of the mouse makes it hard to distinguish between left and right buttons. This also is not true. It's very clear which one you're clicking on and how they're distinguished. This is because you're clicking on the left of the sroll ball or on the right of the scroll ball. If you're operating in one-button mode, you just bang away at the whole thing. In fact, the thing defaults to a left button and right button action becomes more of a deliberate thing.

Why did it take Apple so long to come up with this mouse? Judging by the lines at the local Apple store, maybe it took this long to build up inventory;)

The End Is Near...!

[schmelding]

"In that day shall the mice have not one, but multiple buttons. Features shall it have, and it shall them in abundance."
-Jobs 10:42

This follows the logical switch to Intel

[lord_rob the only on]

Well this is just my opinion, but I think this new mouse is not unrelated to recent Apple decision to move to Intel. If the new Mac are able to run Windows, they *have* to support at least a 2-button-plus-wheel-mouse.

Re:This follows the logical switch to Intel

[zpok]

You're sort of right. Since Mac OS 8 macs supported multi button mice. But too many people just wouldn't believe this and keep nagging about the one button mouse, no matter how many times they and everybody else would say it.

So this really is the best time to come out with a multi button squeeze thing.

Everybody is bullish on Apple, especially after announcing the switch to intel, and now ,my god, they even "support multi button mice"...

Still a physical 'Click' - still some feedback

[chancycat]

I think this mouse still provides a physical "click" liek the typical Apple mouse - the difference is that the mouse knows which click - left or right - you meant with the click. The physical feedback is not lost. Someone please prove me incorrect and then I'll be mad a hell at Apple. Physical feedback is still a necessity.

Evan

Re:Still a physical 'Click' - still some feedback

[chancycat]

From the Apple webpage:

The Mouse Is The Button

On Mighty Mouse, the entire top shell is the actual button. As with previous versions of the Apple mouse, simply press on the upper surface to click -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the clever click mechanism.

Round time

[mr100percent]

From Apple's site: "Time is round. Space is curved. Why should your mouse be linear?"

Wait, Time is round? How is that?

Re:Round time

[zpok]

"Wait, Time is round? How is that?"

Assuming you haven't got a digital watch, look at the big hand and the little hand...

Single button is better - for laptops

[SuperKendall]

Because the Apple fan-boys have been arguing that one button is best for many years

I don't think that's true for desktops.

But I d othink it's true for laptops - when your mouse and keyboard are essentially in the same place under your hands, chording is just a better idea than any other confounding arrangemnent for multiple button mice I have used on any other Windows laptop. They are always somewhat annoying to reach or else all to easy to hit accidentially. It's why most Windows laptop users use external mice when I've never felt the need for one on my Powerbook even with extended use.

What mandating a single button across the line does is ensure most software will be written that is as easy to use on a laptop as it is in a desktop. And with the rise of the laptop as a primary computer all of the sudden this looks like a wildly good idea - even if that aspect was probably accidental.

I think the intuitive aspect of the mouse will not be that two buttons look like one, but that a gesture-based control system moves into a place where it seems like a good fit. Yes this has already been done on trackpads to some extent but this seems to take it to the next level as it were, with very natural gestures to control actions in the computer.

Re:Single button is better - for laptops

[adpowers]

I agree. I'm not sure if my friends understand, but I think one mouse button is better for laptops. When I'm forced to use a Windows laptop, I keep hitting the right mouse button because I'm not used to stretching my hand in weird, uncomfortable positions to reach the left button.

Re:Intelligence != willingness to tolerate messy U

[Blakey Rat]

I for one am much more confident in my ability to define a menu full of scripts, shortcuts, services, and other tools associated with a given application than I am confident in some developer who has no idea what I am trying to do.

You have a typo there... that sentence should read:

I for one am much more confident in my ability to define a menu full of scripts, shortcuts, services, and other tools associated with a given application than I for one am confident in some developer who has no idea what I for one am trying to do.

My Girlfriend, Mac User

[funkify]

My girlfriend is a graphic designer and uses Macs almost exclusively. The first time she used my PC to check her email, her first comment was, "Oooh, I really love your mouse." It's just a plain old Logitech wheel mouse.

Re:Worst. Mouse. Evar. --- NOT!

[djwildstar]

I have one in my hand now, and your fears are absolutely unfounded. I basically just plugged the new mouse in in place of my Kensington 2-button+scroll-wheel mouse. I have had no problems using it, and haven't had to teach myself new mousing habits. All in all, my initial impression is very positive: Apple has thought out the ergonomics of this thing, and it does work as advertised.

The Mighty Mouse has good tactile feedback - the actual button-click mechanism is exactly like the 1-button Pro mouse. When you click it, you can feel the mechanism clicking. Like the Pro mouse, you can rest your fingers on either side of the scroll ball without triggering a click.

Only when the mouse is mechanically "clicked" does it look at the pressure sensor to figure out if you're pushing on the left or right side. Even then, it senses pressure rather than just touch, so you can reliably make a left-click or right-click even while your other finger is still resting on the other "button". The scroll-ball "button" works the same way, and also registers reliably.

The scroll ball itself is excellent - it spins freely, and has a small mechanical detent as well as an audible click. I think the scroll click is generated by a small speaker in the mouse, and it sounds exactly like the iPod's scroll wheel sound.

The side buttons took the most getting used to - mainly because I keep forgetting that they exist and don't use them. Triggering the side buttons takes a surprising amount of thumb pressure, so accidental clicks are not a problem here, either.

Picking up the mouse and moving it around doesn't cause a side-click, either. There seems to be some type of lock-out logic; it takes a lot more force to trigger the side buttons when the mouse is in the air, so accidental clicks aren't a problem unless you're really trying to crush the mouse in your hand.

Anyone notice that it is a 5 button

[Foo2rama]

Not sure why apple is calling it a 4 button...

The scroll ball is a clickable button making it 5 on my count. Left,Right, back, forward, scroll button. Unless apple is counting the right and left as 1 button.

At least apple has finally made a good mouse again. The apple mice have been horrible since the imac hocky puck. The replacement laser mouse had a wierd click feel to it as the whole body moved with a click.

For the record I currently use aopen's 5 button 2 scroll wheel mouse. the second scroll is for left/right or zoom.

Re:Anyone notice that it is a 5 button

[binary paladin]

I actually met a guy the other day that MISSED the hockey puck. Dunno WTF was up with that.

Re:Intelligence != willingness to tolerate messy U

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

No.

It's an upside down ball mouse

[Anonymous Coward]

I kept on telling that ball mousing would never go out of style, and this mouse (albeit with the ball on top) as proved me right!

Going the wrong way.

[zkn]

People look at TFP it's a 0button mouse not at 2button mouse.
They are moving in the wrong direction!

On that not I wager that Apple will populice capacitive sensors in mice(Yes logitech has been there with their laptop mouse scrollpad, but Apple has perfected the use).

It clicks

[DCMonkey]

For those worried about a lack of physical feedback when clicking with this mouse:

The Mouse Is The Button
On Mighty Mouse, the entire top shell is the actual button. As with previous versions of the Apple mouse, simply press on the upper surface to click -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the clever click mechanism.

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/design.html

Why Apple uses a one button mouse, from /.

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason Apple uses a one button mouse was posted earlier this year. However, the reason I heard (and I believe it's correct) is that Steve Jobs wanted people to be able to learn from someone while they were using the machine. That is, with a one button mouse, you could see exactly what the user was doing with that mouse; getting a menu required an easily visible depression of the control button along with the mouse button.

Re:Why Apple uses a one button mouse, from /.

[Anonymous Coward]

Only Steve Case could have dumbed down a technology to pander to a lower level of intelligence than Steve Jobs.

Too proud to admit defeat

[Anonymous Coward]

The single button mouse is finally dead (thank God).

Rationalize this new device as you will, but Apple has finally owned up to a stupid mistake.

Re:Too proud to admit defeat

[Anonymous Coward]

> The single button mouse is finally dead (thank God).
> Rationalize this new device as you will, but Apple has finally owned up to a stupid mistake.

Just to be clear, the single-button mouse was not a stupid mistake - it was a smart choice based on actual research and user testing.

The stupid mistake was omitting support for multi-button mice and not offering those mice to users who knew how they worked and knew what they wanted!

Hail to the wheel

[Arru]

The important issue is the (until now) lack of a scroll wheel. To argue against PC-style mice is to argue against scroll wheels, and that is a very difficult position to take. They're as intuitive as the mouse itself, and they make scrolling operations vastly easier. This omission is what has been making Apple mice inferior, and what continues to make non-premium mice inferior.

Then, isn't arguing against the Mighy Mouse (and for regular Logitechs) is to argue that you don't need to scroll in both directions)

I would say that to argue against scroll wheels is sensible, like defending a single mouse button, the need for a scroll wheel is just a symptom of poor interface design.

Re:Hail to the wheel

[ArbitraryConstant]

"Then, isn't arguing against the Mighy Mouse (and for regular Logitechs) is to argue that you don't need to scroll in both directions)"

It would be, yes. Which is why I'm not arguing against it.

I like what I've seen of the MM enough that I'm considering buying one for my Linux box as soon as the retailers around here get them in stock so I can make sure I like the feel of it. I've seen mice with a horizontal wheel but never a ball.

"I would say that to argue against scroll wheels is sensible, like defending a single mouse button, the need for a scroll wheel is just a symptom of poor interface design."

No it's not.

Scroll bars are a ubiquitous UI component. There's not really any way around them because we need to display more information than can fit on a screen. But they're terrible from an HCI standpoint, because the misstep rate is high and they're a difficult target to hit with a mouse.

Since they're terrible and they can't be avoided, improvements are welcome. Scroll wheels are rediculously easy to use and the misstep rate is very low. They're very intuitive, almost as intuitive as a mouse itself. Therefore, they're a good idea.

Innovation?

[Jinglehopper]

How is offering something that has been available for years innovative? Apple has always pretended to be cutting edge. It's especially ironic how their spinning the MIghty Mouse as a great new product when in reality they are conceding victory to the multi button mouse.

Re:Innovation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, Innovative does not necessarily mean original. Whether a scroll ball and single-click, multi "sensed" mouse is innovative is certainly arguable, but to say it isn't simply because it's "been done" would rule out just about everything innovative done in the last 50 years.

right click kludge

[willCode4Beer.com]

If right clicking to get a context menu is a kludge then why is clicking and holding to get a context menu not a kludge?
Or holding the control key and clicking?
Apple is still proving the "kludge" they're just giving a different way to do it.
Other than the Gimp, I can't think of any programs that rely on the context menu. Now, I agree that depending on the context menu is poor design. But, who does it (besides the Gimp)?

Re:right click kludge

[MustardMan]

You're missing the point... by shipping computers without two buttons, apple is strongly encouraging good UI design. When a programmer KNOWS that a large part of his user base is likely to only have one button, he's more likely to design his UI to be able to be used fairly easily with a single button. The second button, then, will be programmed as an ADDITIONAL way to access frequently used functionality, and will be used as it should be - to supplement the interface for added efficiency, not to complicate it.

Re:right click kludge

[belroth]

You're missing the point... by shipping computers without two buttons, apple is strongly encouraging good UI design.

So why are Apple now shipping a multi-button mouse? (It may look like 1 button but it has multi-button functions - if it walks like a duck...)

The second button, then, will be programmed as an ADDITIONAL way to access frequently used functionality, and will be used as it should be - to supplement the interface for added efficiency, not to complicate it.

Ah, you mean a context menu like I have already?

Re:right click kludge

[MoneyT]

They aren't shipping computers with the new mouse.

Re:right click kludge

[belroth]

So? They are shipping the mouse aren't they?

Re:right click kludge

[SA Stevens]

They aren't shipping PCs with Intel processors *yet* either.

You zealots' world is crumbling.

Re:right click kludge

[MustardMan]

You have been able to use a 2-button mouse with a mac for a long time. As long as the system DEFAULTS to a 1-button mouse, programmers will be forced to program to the 1-button interface. Even if the new mouse becomes standard, it has an option to operate in "1-button mode" which whill most likely be the default setting.

The way Zealots phrase things...

[Anonymous Coward]

... is so obvious. You've phrased the whole thing as if Apple has done these things to shut up stupid and trivial complaints. Rather than recognizing the fact that these were valid complaints, and they decided to address them. Nah, couldn't be that, then we'd have to recognize deficiencies with Apple. Instead, we'll just play pretend like Apple spends R&D money to silence trolls on slashdot.

Reason I'm being a smartass to you about this? Because I did complain about Macs being too expensive before the mini's. When the mini came out, guess what, I bought my first mac! I wasn't trolling, it was a valid point which apple finally addressed. I also complained about the processors, because after buying the mac mini, which I am satisfied for what I use it for(digital entertainment center, it rocks!), it is a mule, not a stallion. I can build a PC with an AMD chip that will spank it around the globe for the same amount of money. But the elegant interface makes it a better fit for my use of it.

The one thing I never complained about was the mouse. One button, two, three, whatever. Keyboard macros are my best friend, with the mouse to suppliment it. BUT, I can understand that people who are dependent upon the mouse could be bothered like that.

So try thinking about things from other peoples perspective instead of the perspective of an Apple fanboy. Maybe people complain about things because to them, those things matter. AND KUDOS FOR APPLE TAKING THOSE COMPLAINTS TO HEART AND ADDRESSING THEM, NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SILENCE TROLLS, BUT BECAUSE THEY RECOGNIZED THE VALIDITY OF THE COMPLAINTS. Now if we could just get Microsoft to do that...

Re:Mighty Mouse + Custom Click Sounds = Pr0n

[Anonymous Coward]

Logitech did a vibrating mouse touted as being handy for "force feedback" in games of its era (Black and White as I recall), and I have one right here.

Predictably, turning the vibrate feature on is highly irritating and only serves to make the mouse rattle against the desk. The software that makes it vibe in Windows when you roll over important UI elements was hilarious for all of 10 seconds before I deleted it.

Maybe I should buy a new mouse, and send this one to the grandparent poster, so they can install a speaker in it for their own twisted needs

Software!

[magnamous]

I want to get my hands on the software. I have a Kensington trackball, and I'd love it if Apple's programmable multi-button driver worked with my device (I hate Kensington's software - the clicking lags).

Speaker Inside?

[Jedi Holocron]

Great! As if I don't hear enough voices as it is!

Now my mouse will talk to me!

Ain't that Apple business plan a beauty?????

[woohootoo]

Does the timing of the latest Apple product announcements strike anyone else as pure genius? Seems like they said "Well, hardware sales may suffer a bit in the short term because of the Intel thing, so let's pop out a few new goodies to keep sales humming in the interim." I personally think they're going to sell a jillion and a half of these new mousie jewels. Just look at the huge potential market: 1) the Mac faithful (of course), 2) all the I-love-to-press-lotsa-buttons geeks, 3) the mildly curious who buy new, moderately-priced toys, and 4) a new market I didn't really consider until I read the posts here--the LARGE number of folks who have any one of an assortment of wierd sexual fetishes!

why you people are idiots.

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry, in a sea of 1000+ posts I needed some way to grab people's attention. :)

Why now?
If you've followed Apple's design, you'll notice the current trend is away from glaring cracks & seams ... if you have the current keyboard nearby, notice it's practically frameless, there's no sea of plastic around the keys except between the home/end/pageup/etc and arrow keys. To produce a 2 button mouse in the traditional way would introduce such "cracks." There's a 3rd party mouse out there that looks similar to Apple's, but with a split between the buttons; acceptable to most, but in Apple's eyes, damn fugly.
You say Apple favors form over function? How about form and function. They didn't want to do multi functions until they could present it properly. Present it invisibly. Present it sexy. (look! it's got a nipple! ;)

modifier keys are unintuitive!
Disabled aside, we all type with two hands, and take one hand off to use the mouse. My other hand remains on the keyboard ... where's your hand? And remember while second nature to us, context and right-clicking are actually "advanced" maneuvers, shortcuts to pre-existing menu commands. (...and the day grandma buys her first computer to use Shake, I'll let you all know.)

My take on it? Looks nice. You can maintain one button function for beginners, switch to two for more advanced. But I am a bit concerned about the tactility of it. I thought it still physically clicked (and the sensors determine where you click,) From the look at Apple's page, it seems it doesn't, so you're just tapping on a hard plastic surface. The tactility of a physical click is nice. But I'll reserve final judgement for when I lay my hands on one, and consider one when a BT option comes out.

When Microsoft got to work, they envisioned a world where everyone used MS apps on their computers. When Apple got to work, they envisioned a world where everyone could use their computers.

Wireless too primitive

[porneL]

• they need frequent recharging -- it's not "it just works" anymore,
• or they need big and heavy battery -- not cool enough for Apple,
• installation problems may arise (like bluetooth/rf channel config, interference) -- won't pass grandmothers&toddlers QA

It's a 4-button.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are only four independent buttons on the mouse.

• Left button
  
• Right button
  
• Scrollball-click
  
• Squeeze sides
  

The left and right side buttons aren't independent; they count as a single button.

1165 replies?

[mrs dogbreath]

Hey changing to INTEL only got to 845 by now!

What next Apple branded Windows XP?

Minitrackball

[tgibbs]

That is a 360 degree "roll" for whatever application might use that. They implemented vertical and horizontal scroll across that mini-trackball from what I can tell of their moving diagram. Which would really suck to use now that I think about it. You're scrolling up really far and right in the middle of that you roll over a mini-trackball.

I'll be surprised if the mini-trackball actually rolls. After all, Apple has moved away from an actual spinning scroll wheel on the iPod. And the ball looks a little small. My guess is that you run your finger over or around the little ball, and the software interprets your gesture in terms of a "virtual trackball." A real spinning ball seems far more trouble-prone and expensive to manufacture. I should know soon, because I ordered one today.

Cheap? Just Do What I Do...

[catdevnull]

Don't like the one button mouse? Think the 'Mighty Mouse' is a bit overrrated?

Just do like I do:

Step 1: Arrive to the office early
Step 2: Go to the storage closet and find an old PC mouse (PS2 or USB)
Step 3: Find a Dell with a nice 2 botton/scroll LED mouse (USB)
Step 4: Replace the Dell mouse with the Old one from the storage closet
Step 5: Leave a note from "I.T." about the "repair"
Step 6: Remove your 'inferior' mouse from your Mac
Step 7: Plug in the Dell into your Mac--voila! No drivers needed.
Step 8: Deny everything.

*Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited by law. If you get fired or your ass kicked, it's not my fault you picked the wrong cubicle to raid.

Re:Cheap? Just Do What I Do...

[zpok]

This is why everybody loves IT staff.

Re:Cheap? Just Do What I Do...

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah--all those bastards blame these kind of shennanigans on us!

Isn't mouse thievery a hangin' offense in Silicon Valley?

Even more Ironic -- Final Cut Pro

[green pizza]

Back in the days of Apple Final Cut Pro 1.0, which was several years before Mac OS X even shipped, Apple recommended the use of a three button mouse. A year ago when Apple started selling Shake, they *required* a three button mouse to access all of the features / options.

the point of one button......

[johnpaul191]

the point of the one button mouse was more "this is all you need" as opposed to "one is far better than 2 or 5". how many people really use the mouse their computer comes with? seriously. even if it is a great design, we all have different sized hands, we use our machines for different reasons. that being said i am curious to try one of these out. i will not run to the store tonight, but next time i am at a store i'll try one out and maybe get one.

i doubt this mouse will ship with the iMac or eMac. my mom can use her iMac to check email and use ebay. she is still confused by some stuff, and having to teach her (or any compu-newbie) about which button is for what is just a pain. OS X will still work 100% with a one button mouse.

i wonder if this will mean powerbooks/ibooks will have some sort of multi button support coming? even a programmable button that can be one or two button style would be a nice upgrade. they now have the scrolling trackpad thing going on ibooks and powerbooks, so we just need the other button.

I'm using it right now...

[jpellino]

It's intuitive. There's plenty of tactile feedback on all buttons.
Left and right click feel exactly as they should.
Everyone relax.
BTW this Apple store sold out of them already.

Zero Buttons and a big ugly wire

[ModernGeek]

I thought everything was supposed to be wireless nowadays. Thinking of which, are there any bluetooth speakers out there that match a mac? I would consider this mouse for my new mini, but I don't like the fact that there isn't a wireless version.

why are apple mice so small?

[Polybius]

That mouse looks to be ridiculously small. I just can't stand any Apple mouse especially that stupid IMAC one that was circular.

Being quite a bit above average in size my hands are enormous and most Apple mice simply just do not suffice. Logitech MX1000 > * I just wish it was even bigger and maybe add 3 or 4 more buttons as well.

Re:why are apple mice so small?

[mtec]

Popular with th' ladies are we?

You people are crazy!

[astrodawg]

1200 (as of about 5pm EDT) comments about a mouse. WTF?

Just tried one at the apple store SF.

[minniger]

It is exactly like the current apple mouse in feel (a good thing). But it doesn't have the clear exterior on the white interior. It's just white.

It clicks just like the current apple mouse, but it can tell if your pushing more on the right or the left. This works really well and you don't even notice that there are not separate buttons.

The squeeze is a little weird since you have to have your fingers right on the buttons. This might not be so great for some, I had to use my thumb and little finger bent in a weird way. Again, kinda strange, but I could get used to it. Esply if it was assiged to something I didn't do too often.

The scroll ball is a little small, but again is something you'd probably get used to. It clicks quite nicely and the scrolling seems to work well. Hard to tell if it will gum up really bad or not. I didn't attempt to take it appart.

All in all (after 4 min of playing with it) it is a nice mouse. The right and left mousing work really well, the scrolling is good and the rest is... cool but nothing too exciting.

I would definitly get one with a new mac. But 50 clams is a little steep to replace my kensingtons.

Mac OS XP (Mac OS 11.0 - "Quisling").

[argent]

What next Apple branded Windows XP?

Microsoft could port the OSX userland to run on top of Interix/NT instead of XNU/Darwin, since NT and Mach are similar not-quite-microkernels. That would get them Microsoft's DRM support and let them make the iPod compatible with PlaysForSure. What's not to like?

OS X Tiger and up?

[ps_inkling]

Sure, it's a pretty mouse from Apple. I was tempted to buy one -- until I read this:

Mac OS X v10.4.2 or later -- Enable or disable scrolling, assign primary and secondary buttons, activate Exposé, display Dashboard, open Spotlight, switch applications or open applications.

Mac OS X v10.3.9 or 10.4.1 and earlier -- Assign primary and secondary buttons and activate Exposé. Display Dashboard in Mac OS X v10.4 or 10.4.1.

Mac OS X v10.3.8 and earlier -- Use as a multibutton scrolling mouse.

So, no shiny programmability unless you're running OS X Tiger 10.4.2? Hmmph. Only assigning buttons is not acceptable in OS X 10.3.9. How hard could it be to fix the mouse system widget?

I wonder if it will be the pack-in mouse for new system?

Trackball hack anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

It should be possible to turn the scrollball into a full-fledged trackball.

Here's a review of the new mouse

[Exito]

Here's a review of the new mouse from a guy who rushed out and bought one this morning.

I'm a tech support guy too...

[argent]

From the page you pointed to: The first reason deals with the technical ability of the average computer user. Having once worked doing technical support, let me explain one very common point of frustration for techs.

Double-clicking on menu items. No, I'm not kidding. The double click Apple invented to support the one-button mouse was a freaking nightmare.

Two-button mice are easy to explain. There's a selection button, and a menu button. You don't say "click", you say "select". You don't say "right click" you say "click the menu button". People catch on really quickly. It's a lot easier to keep straight than single-double-shift-control-option/alt-command-and -hold-it... don't sneeze.

Obligatory oldschool reference

[StarManta.Mini]

No wireless. Fewer buttons than a Logitech. Lame.

MARKET SHARE URBAN LEGEND

[argent]

The no part of the answer is that the Apple market share is still small enough that the virus writers simply do not target it.

Urban legend.

Around 1997 there was a MASSIVE influx of viruses on the PC. It was huge. Insane. Before that the PC really wasn't any more of a virus target than anything else, you did have a few more because they were more common, but it was a small integer multiple, and the people who tended to get viruses were the people who were doing dangerous things like downloading warez. Most people didn't even need antivirus, even if they used online services or the Internet or used email, if they were careful to avoid downloading and running attachments.

There was even a joke going around about an email virus so nasty you couldn't even click on it to delete it because as soon as you clicked on it it would run. Everyone knew it was a joke, because no mail software would ever implement the kinds of features that it would take to make that happen.

Then came the integration of Internet Explorer and the Desktop, Outlook and IE, the whole sloppy mess. The "good times" virus hoax became real. Right then, viruses on the PC took off.

Not because the PC suddenly had 10 times the number of targets, but because now EVERY PC was a target... EVEN IF you took reasonable care, if yu ised Outlook, you could still be infected.

Active Desktop. Active Content. Cross Zone attacks. Unless Apple does something really amazingly stupid they will NEVER get the kind of virus problem that Microsoft has. Now, I don't rule out Apple doing something stupid. They've done stupid things (open "safe" files after download? No effing thanks, dude, assume NO files are safe), but nothing as colossally daft and arrogant as the Typhoid Mary known as the Microsoft HTML Control.

THAT is the problem with Windows security. Not Market share. Microsoft has, what, 95% US market share, 70% worldwide? They don't have 95% or 70% or even 99.70 or 99.95% of the viruses. Every single virus that is actively propogating in the wild, right now, is on Windows. Every single one.

You don't get that kind of virus "market share" just by being popular.

My mom's blog username

[Anonymous Coward]

is mightymouse...

One button does not suffer from right-handed-ness

[tlambert]

One button does not suffer from right-handed-ness. I think it's as simple as that.

It'd be really easy to design a multibutton mouse that doesn't have the problem of handed-ness, but no one has designed on yet.

This comes down to ease-of-use for people unfamiliar with the machine: are you going to make the learning curve as steep as having to be able to know enough to get to the system configuration options to make the machine usable for the 20% of the world that's left-handed, or aren't you?

Even if you get to the system preferences, all of the documentation would still suffer from handed-ness: "right click the icon" or "left click the icon to get the properties menu".

I think this comes down the the original human factors decisions in the Macintosh, arising from the primary design goal of "the machine for the rest of us".

Also, given the professions which tend to use Macintosh computers are creative professions, and creative professions have more than their share of south-paws, it's pretty obvious that the button bias and documentation bias would be issues.

-- Terry

Old school eh? You need the OTHER Steve

[Provocateur]

...to design your mouse.

After all, he thought of these shoes http://www.getasite.com/gj/cruelshoes.htm

Funnee

[johnnytv]

I used to have a one-button apple pro mouse...second hand crap it was, and it had a dead short in it which would crash the USB occasionally. So I got a genuine Microsoft mouse with the scroll wheel and a USB adaptor that maps it from PS2 and the thing works famously. Best thing MS ever made, lol

I tried one: clicky switches under flimsy shell

[AHumbleOpinion]

no shit its cool - only apple could take the mouse and breathe life into it. I can't believe the nay-sayers here - the benefits are obvious - they can ship a single product that satifies 1 button 2 button and n button people! Beautiful - and no more clicking - I'm ordering 1 (or maybe 2 or maybe n) right now!

Try it before you buy it. It is not revolutionary. I just tried one. It has two very conventional clicky switches and as far as left/right buttons go it feels completely natural. It accomplishes this by having a flexible "unibody" shell that lets you press one switch and not the other. Unfortunately it also gives the mouse a flimsy feel. A $20 Microsoft or Logitech mouse feels better, and can't these be configured so that all buttons are left clicks? The scoll wheel is something you have to try as well, some will like it, some will hate it. It seems to take more strokes than a conventional wheel. It may have a rougher granularity but I'm not sure, I need more time on it. As far as aesthetics goes it can't be beat, it definitely matches the keyboard.

Re:multibutton is thought to be efficient

[bussdriver]

Its only true for intermediate users.

Any real power user has to use their other hand on the keyboard to function, with a 1 button mouse, its just another key+mouseClick combo and doesn't take any more time.

I operate JUST as fast either way, except on tasks where a scroll wheel helps---a scroll wheel + single mouse button would be just fine by me.

FYI: i've used from 1 to 6 button mice. I've settled on a 3 button scroll wheel---only because I needed the scroll wheel and got the other 2 buttons (which I use for window management.)

linux driver

[Anonymous Coward]

nice, time to do a little reverse engineering...

They'll never support it in Panther.

[argent]

Read this: So, if you haven't already upgraded to Mac OS X Tiger, isn't Mighty Mouse reason enough?

It's pushing the upgrade. If I wasn't already thinking of waiting until Microsoft or Logitech copied the scrollball and put it in a mouse that was less weird, this would have done it. Even though I don't want the tertiary button support, I hate push marketing.

What's the big deal about the mouse?

[soulnet]

I don't understand why the Apple's mouse is such a big deal. I'm sure that most people buy an aftermarket mouse instead of using the one that ships with their new computer anyhow. Personally, I use this mouse with my MAC --> http://www.macally.com/spec/usb/input_device/rfmou se.html

Right clicking and scrolling work just fine!

Imagine a tech support call.

[xclr8r]

Help Desk: please right click the mouse. On the icon. User: I did and it look like 2 things happened really fast. (User pushes too much in the middle and hits both right and left keys) Help Desk: Ok Sir please lean more to the right when u click it. Help Desk hears a crash Over line Help Desk: Sir are you ok? Caller: yes I just leaned to far too my right and fell of my chair.

It's not just touch sensitive, it still moves

[AnEmbodiedMind]

The whole frame of the mouse moves as you click, just like the old Apple mouse, giving you a very clear idea of when you have clicked.

The touch pads on top are just to determine what kind of click it was - probably only performing a "right-click" if you had only the right part touched, and a normal/main click otherwise.

Yes, there were rumors

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, there were rumors, though not specific and not recently. This was posted on March 15.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=951

Re:MARKET SHARE not URBAN LEGEND

[Blitzenn]

If you look up the market share numbers even then, the desktop market was still dominated, 90% or better depending on the reporting source, by Micorsoft OS's. With the numbers that high, I would expect nearly all of the virus target to be those systems.

Is a virus writer going to waste their time writing a virus for something that carries such a small margain of successful targets? You would have to ignore the facts to come to that conclusion.

If Apple gains that much market share, which I hope they do some day, you will find the same problem there too. I am not making a defense for MS, but I refuse to ignore the simple facts too.

In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

RMS repents and goes to work for Microsoft.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[synx]

Being an actual _owner_ of the new mouse, I can attest to the fact that the mouse is still tactile. You can feel the left and right click, and you can also feel the scrolling on the scroll button. Obviously its a bit more subtle than a big-assed scroll wheel, but I really can't figure out if the ball is rolling or not.

I haven't exactly played games with it yet, but don't get the feeling like you can't tell by touch when the button clicks and the ball rolls. It might be that they are using the speaker to vibrate the ball to give the tactile feedback.

Think Different.®

[mbius]

Scientist: Our research indicates that customers would prefer a mouse with more buttons, and also, less buttons.

Apple: Here I Come, To Save the Daaaaaaaaaaay!!

Is the Scroll Ball really a Ball?

[finnatic]

Is the Scroll Ball really a Ball? And if so, how would you clean it - it's not like you could hold it (like you can a track wheel) - or is it self cleaning?

Eh, not all that great.

[mizzoubear56]

It sounds neat, but with USB 1.1, and being corded. It's not that cool in my opinion. Though I don't know about the price. Eh, I'll try and get my hands on one to try it.

Re:Eh, not all that great.

[daverabbitz]

Surely being USB 1.1 and wired are both good things.
Why on earth would a mouse need over 12Mbps of bandwidth, which is the only advantage of USB 2.0.

Apple was wrong -- but they *admitted* it

[typical]

That said, I think Apple is giving in to the inevitable here.

That's because Apple was *wrong* before. Don't get me wrong, I think that they did a heck of a lot of things right way before anyone else was trying to do them. I also think that when they *started* their interface, one button was a great idea -- people were intimidated by computers, didn't know what mice *were*, much less how buttons on them worked. The problem is that Apple repeatedly refused, over the years, to admit that trying to force a *one button* mouse on a populace that had become used to two button mice was a stupid idea.

Apple seems to be much more appealing these days in that they're willing to admit that some of their decisions in the past were bad (PowerPC started out as maybe being a good idea, but turned out to be a bad idea). If what they're trying to do is become another Dell but try to put out superior products with good industrial design (and the PC world has been essentially dead WRT industrial design, especially for such a fast-paced industry), then I might be interested in Apple again.

Re:Apple was wrong -- but they *admitted* it

[wkcole]

The problem is that Apple repeatedly refused, over the years, to admit that trying to force a *one button* mouse on a populace that had become used to two button mice was a stupid idea.

I think that overstates the situation. Multi-button mice have been available for the Mac since the 80's. Kensington and Logitech owe their existence to Apple making that possible in the OS but staying out of that aftermarket. The effect of Apple only selling one-button mice was more significant on developers, because apps had to work with a one-button mouse. From the very first Apple apps, the modifier-key(s)+click trick was used as an alternative to having more buttons and that is what 3rd-party multi-button mice posted as events for their other buttons by default. For nearly a decade, Apple has directly supported multi-button mice in the OS and with HI guidelines but has stayed out of that market themselves.

This is really more about marketing and ending misperceptions more than it is a real novelty. Supporting multi-button mice is not new for Apple, selling one with their name on it is. It ends the negative myth around the one-button mouse and drops that learning curve for Windows switchers from the insurmountable "Control-click is right-click" to "Here's your multi-button mouse with an Apple logo."

Video review

[avocade]

People are moving fast when it comes to Apple products :)

Here is a video review for the new Apple MightyMouse (warning: site already "dug" (digg.com)).

Chording?

[tepples]

It has a mechanical button to register clicks, and touch-sensitive regions to distinguish left- and right-clicks. So it does actually "click" when you press on it.

On a typical PC mouse: press and hold left. (click) press and hold right. (click) release both buttons. (c-click).

On this mouse: press and hold left. (click) press and hold right. (nothing!) release both buttons.

Re:Chording?

[shrik3]

On a typical PC mouse: press and hold left. (click) press and hold right. (click) release both buttons. (c-click). On this mouse: press and hold left. (click) press and hold right. (nothing!) release both buttons.

If a piece of software actually requires you to do that, then the Programmer, UI Designer and Usability Engineer should be shot. Just as a warning to others.

Look For the Buy 1; Get 4 Free from this guy

[Anonymous Coward]

Look for the Buy 1; Get For Free sale soon at MacMice!

Can't take credit for that joke ... saw it here

But....does it work on a PC?

[methangel]

Seriously, is there any kind of qualm with getting this to work on a PC? I'm assuming it's USB based.

Re:But....does it work on a PC?

[mh101]

If you'd followed the link, you'd have seen that it's a USB 1.1 device, and Apple says it'll work with Windows 2000 or XP as well.

what about improving optical tracking?

[plasmacutter]

All of apple's mice are now optical, but anyone whose desk has a wood grained surface, or whose mousepad has graphics on it, knows that the tracking on these mice is hit or miss.

go over a section of mousepad or desk where the color changes, and watch the cursor go flying out of control. why not make a more advanced optical tracker rather than embedding power consuming and easily mispressed touch sensors (i should know, i accidentally press those darn touchy buttons on my gen 3 ipod at least once per drive... it's really annoying)

MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[argent]

You're missing the point. I'm not saying that market share doesn't have an effect, I'm saying that market share's effect is much much smaller than the effect of the basic design of the OS and the user interface.

The market share changes over the late '90s were steady, Microsoft was already dominant and was just picking up the last few percentage points really... so market share isn't why the mass mailer worms took off, followed by the various cross-zone exploits and spyware in IE. There was a huge new opportunity for virus writers to exploit, a new mechanism that was orders of magnitude more effective than anything they been able to use in the past.

These attacks ONLY exist in Windows, and the ONLY exist in Windows IF you use IE, Outlook, and other programs that use the MS HTML control.

There's a couple of other problems in Windows networking that have made things worse than they should, and are why it's critical that you have a firewall up in Windows when other operating systems can get away with simply not running any server software to get the equivalent protection, but these are minor compared with the HTML control.

If all of a sudden Mac OS X was the #1 target for virus writers, you would NOT get the same problems as you have on Windows, because it simply does not have the deep fundamental and unfixable security flaws that make Windows so easy to get into.

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[Blitzenn]

"I'm saying that market share's effect is much much smaller than the effect of the basic design of the OS and the user interface."

The problem with that perspective is this; Just because there are two baked bean manufactures, let's say Bush's and Grandma Brown's (Grandma Brown's being much smaller than Bush's). Let's say Bush's has 90% of the market and Grandma Brown's has 10%. Where that may be very true, it does not mean that I will buy Bush's 90% of the time and Grandma Brown's 10% of the time. Statistically speaking from the customer point of view I will buy Bush's 100% of the time or Grandma Brown's 100% of the time. The people that buy Grandma Brown's 100% of the time only make up 10% of the people that buy baked beans. With that said, If I want send surprises to as many baked bean eaters as possible, then I would put them in Bush's cans. I wouldn't waste my time going to a place that is only going to get my surprises out to 10% of the baked bean eaters. The problem becomes more polarizing than that too. Lets say my surprises only fit in cans and not glass jars and Bushes only come in cans and Grandma Brown's in Glass jars. I am not going to retool my surprises for Glass Jars too when I can already serve 90% of the possible audience with what I have. Worse yet, if my surprises are meant to harm people and drive people toward eating Grandma Brown's Beans, then I am certainly not going to allow my surprises to work in glass jars at all. Being that virus writers are attempting to do damage and they have some purpose, then you can assume they are targeting one platform for a reason. Perhaps driving people toward the Apple platform is not the only reason, but it is safe to assume in at least some of the cases. The others could be partially attributed to there also being 90% more tools to write the viruses with than on the Apple platform. There is no arguement to be made that there are many many more software applications for the MS platform than the Apple. Much to the dispmay of Apple users and to the delight of windows virus writers. So arguements can be made both ways (more than I bring into the light here), but when you start adding up the plusses and minuses, Apple quickly falls out of the target area and MS comes into focus clearly.

Your 90/10 rule is simply, well, to simple a view to apply in this case.

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[argent]

You'd have a good argument execpt for two things:

1. There are still people writing new software for the Mac. The tools you use to write viruses are the same as the tools you use to write any other software.

2. I don't know what 90/10 rule you're talking about. Certainly it's not anything I've written.

The reasons that viruses simply took off on the Windows platform in the late '90s are the same reasons that viruses are still overwhelmingly common on Windows. Microsoft introduced a mechanism for virus distribution that is so much more attractive that it was like chum in the water.

A virus targeting the HTML control can go off even if the user knows it's a virus and is just clicking on it to delete it! And the user can't even turn this feature off! A virus targeting the Mac, or a Windows user using Netscape or Eudora, has to convince a user to save the attachment or download a file, and then run it.

Microsoft's made it a *bit* harder than that, but they've taken seven years to get there and they still haven't closed all the holes. You're a virus writer. If there were 90% Macs and 10% Windows users, you'd STILL write that Windows virus... because it might only hit 1/10th as many potential victims but instead of infecting maybe 1% of the targets who don't have paid-up and up-to-date antivirus software, you'll infect almost all of them.

This is such a tremendous advantage to Windows that it completly swamps the market-share difference. And anyone who watched the email worms hit in the late '90s and still thinks it's a matter of market share is simply in denial.

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[Blitzenn]

"If there were 90% Macs and 10% Windows users, you'd STILL write that Windows virus."

That is completely indefensible, unless you presume that all virus wrriters hate Microsoft and do not have any other goal than to hurt Microsoft users. You would then have to point the finger at non-microsoft users (i.e. Linux and Apple users) as the culprits. So I am not sure we want to go there if you are trying to defend those groups. I do not believe that is the reason however. The simplest explaination that probably most always applies in this case is that the virus writers simply want to infect as many machines as possible, therefore they write their code for a windows platform (target equals 90+ percent of installed systems then). It's simple and defensible. Anything else becomes ridiculous and convoluted.

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[argent]

That is completely indefensible, unless you presume that all virus wrriters hate Microsoft and do not have any other goal than to hurt Microsoft users.

I am completely unable to imagine the confusion that must exist in your mind that would lead you to this assumption. I guess I will have to repeat the fundamental reason that virus writers write so many viruses that attack Windows.

Windows is a much easier target.

Windows is much easier for virus-writers to attack, because Windows has implemented a mechanism for documents to execute scripts or plugins with full local user rights when they are displayed in a web browser, mail reader, and other applications that use the HTML control to display untrusted content.

Microsoft has attempted to reduce the impact of this problem by adding more and more rules for the HTML control to use to determine whether it's going to let a document do this, and more and more steps for an attacker to go through, but they have left this fundamental mechanism in place.

The very idea that this kind of mechanism has any purpose that's even vaguely important enough to keep it around is simply incomprehensible. Back before Microsoft did it, when you'd come across it in science fiction or adventure novels or movies or TV shows, anyone who was familiar with the technology rolled their eyes. It was intuitively obvious that nobody would be as comprehensively stupid as to provide a mechanism for an untrusted document to run code on your computer. It was laughable. It was insane. There was a running joke about it (the "GOOD TIMES" virus) which was funny because EVERYONE KNEW that nobody would EVER write a mail program that would run a virus just by looking at the message.

Then Microsoft did it.

And they're still doing it.

And the kinds of attacks this makes possible simply don't exist anywhere else in the computer industry. Nowhere. No other browser even has a mechanism to say "download this executable program from me and run it, just like it had been downloaded and unpacked and launched".

But IE does. Outlook Express does. And as long as they do, it will be hundreds of times easier for a virus writer to write a program that attacks Windows than one that attacks any other operating system in use today. Because the hard part, really the only hard part, of writing a virus is getting that first block of code in and running... once you have that you're home free.

And that is why "If there were 90% Macs and 10% Windows users, you'd STILL write that Windows virus.", because your Windows virus would still hit ten times as many victims as the Mac one.

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[Blitzenn]

hmmm. Your own blog would suggest otherwise, it would seem anyway. You ardently defend here, but seem to take issue with respect, to the same issue in other areas.

http://www.taronga.com/~peter/io/apple2.html

"I am completely unable to imagine the confusion that must exist in your mind that would lead you to this assumption"

Hey, hey! My mind may be confused, but at least I am not holding my face wrong! http://peter.hates-software.com/ ;)

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[argent]

That page doesn't say "Safari has all the same problems as Internet Explorer". It says "Safari is doing something that is similar to one of the problems in Internet Explorer". There's several design problems in IE, and they should all be avoided.

The big one, their un-firewalled active content, is completely unrelated to the promiscuous use of helper applications. In both IE and Safari if you find a security hole in a helper application you can find ways to exploit it. But only in IE can you do this even if the user you're attacking doesn't even have that helper application on their computer and you have to serve it up to them!

The difference between "the browser is calling an external program that may be insecure", and "the browser needs to directly execute untrusted code" is like the difference between eating leftover pizza and running naked through the hot ward and snogging ebola victims.

Safari lets you turn off the bindings and they stay off. The only way I could find to keep IE from opening PDF documents in Acrobat Reader was to remove the plugin from the Acrobat directory completely.

If a third-party application uses Webkit to display content, and adds a component to Webkit to make that work, that component only exists in that application's copy of Webkit (this is how dashboard works, for example, and why the only "security problem" with dashboard is that Safari treats dashboard widgets as "safe" files). If a third-party application uses the HTML control, and adds an ActiveX component, by default all applications have access to that ActiveX component.

It is not even difficult to run Safari safely. You can turn off "open 'safe' files after downloading" and you can restrict the application bindings. You can't secure Internet Explorer even if you want to, because if you did that Windows Explorer, the control panel, Software Update, and an increasing number of little Windows-Explorer-integrated applets would misbehave or simply not work.

The difference between "the browser is doing something dangerous that you can turn off without breaking any software" and "the browser is doing something dangerous that is essential to the normal working of the computer" is like the difference between walking through a bad part of town and living there.

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[Blitzenn]

"It is not even difficult to run Safari safely. "

Same could be said for IE really. I hate the thought of making a defense with IE in the same sentence, but a few mouse clicks and you can lock it down pretty tightly. In fact, If you have had any exposure to 2003, it comes from the box that way. Now I hear people complaining that they can't figure out how to get 'out of the box' and onto the web. Go figure.

"if you did that Windows Explorer, the control panel, Software Update, and an increasing number of little Windows-Explorer-integrated applets would misbehave or simply not work."

Perhaps that could be proven to be true with IE in an older context, but not with their latest releases. Download yourself a copy of 2003 enterprise server and try to browse the web with it without making any changes to the default settings. Everything in the OS will work just fine, even the 'IE integrated applets'. You may have a great deal of experience with the UNIX side of the fence, I too have a great deal on the Windows side (watch me get trolled for that one sentence). MS has surely made some grand mistakes and put crap out just to make sure they got their share of shelf space. But they are (finally) learning.

Hopefully you see that I too do my homework (I even have your home phone number now. ;) (I like to know who I am talking to.) My only point in saying that is, it is not so much the tools we use that makes us insecure, it's the way we use (or misuse) them. (try to find my home phone number).

Unfortunately, Windows has nearly as much ability to be misused as used properly. To layer that problem even deeper is the fact that most people misuse it due to their own lack of understanding. Take for instance IE's ability to render bad web code. Too many coders out there have 'learned' web coding base on IE's ability to render code that is not formed perfectly well. From one perspective it can be a boon. Allows one to make mistakes and keeps working, like a puncture resistant tire. Also allows morons to run over nails and keep driving despite the fact that their tire is now going to go flat soon. Who is really to blame? I would hesitate to say that a run flat tire is bad, unless I intend on getting mad because i punctured it and ran it until it shredded. You could argue both sides. The wiser man is going to be able to recognize that are merits to both, and make a good decision based on that understanding. The fool refuses to see both sides of the issue and makes bad decisions based on his refusal to listen.

Re:MARKET SHARE IS URBAN LEGEND. Honest.

[argent]

"It is not even difficult to run Safari safely. "

Same could be said for IE really.

No, it can't. It's not even theoretically possible to remove and disable everything that's necessary for IE to be fundamentally secure, without either crippling the system or completely blocking any access to any potentially untrusted content completely.

That means: no access through HTTP, through IMAP, through POP, through Exchange, through FTP, through any protocol at all to any content outside the local system and any other systems inside the same trust boundary.

If that's the kind of "locking down" you're talking about, I would have to grant you the point but you should at least acknowledge that it's a pyrhhic victory... since what you're left with is no longer a web browser.

If you mean that it's possible to configure IE so that it can actually be used effectively as a web browser, and still completely prevent any page in the "Internet Zone" from even theoretically elevating its zone, I don't believe you any more than I'd believe you if you told me that it wasn't theoretically possible for me to break "root" on UNIX.

Video review of new mouse

[starlabs]

Video review here (informative):

http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=300 Somebody mirror this before it gets swamped :)

Re:One button does not suffer from right-handed-ne

[SA Stevens]

I used to go to the extreme of performing surgery on my mouse, to cut traces and install jumper wires to make it a left handed mouse. This was back when 'Windows' didn't govern the behavior of as many functions as it does now, back when a lot of games used DOS-level drivers.

Re:Anybody else think this'll be truly awful gamin

[GaryPatterson]

I also prefer real, tactile feedback in games.

That's why when I'm out and about gaming with my iBook, I pay someone to hit me with a cricket bat to simulate the effects of the game.

A light tap around the ribs simulates a glancing blow, a harder hit in the shoulder or stomach simulates perfectly the effect of a solid hit, and a headshot in the game usually results in me being laid out for a few hours.

Yes, it's expensive in hospital bills, but the point is that I get a realistic feedback without having to muck about with interface devices

Now THIS would be a feature.

[argent]

Perhaps they should add an electronic shock to the controller for replying to spam or any pop-up add that sneaks through Firefox or Safari...

I ENDORSE THIS PRODUCT AND/OR SERVICE!

Obligatory Star Trek Reference

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still waiting for the embedded microphone and voice recognition.

Re:One button does not suffer from right-handed-ne

[Anarchitect_in_oz]

Hello fellow south paw,

I think you've hit the nail on the head about Apple reasoning with Mighty Mouse. It's mentioned 2-3 times over the pages for the mouse that it's hand neutral. Also Apple don't call it left or right click, it's always Primary and secondary. It would seem to be one of those Apple quirks, that add up to "it just works".

What I find funny is you rarely see a mouse on the other side of the keyboard, it's easy to change. I know i keep mine on the right, but then again i find mousing is easy, and that frees up my left hand for the more complex task of of 3-4 key combos, common in CAD and graphics.

iScroll2

[tgibbs]

Thanks for the link to iScroll2; I didn't know that my PowerBook trackpad was capable of two-finger scrolling. It doesn't work for all G4's, however; I tried in on a G4 Titanium PB and it reported that the trackpad was not compatible.

I Must Be Bllnd!

[objekt]

I see no mention of a speaker on that page. My browser's "Find" command can't see it either!

In other words...

[identity0]

So what you're saying is -

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

? :)

HA-HA-HA!!!!!

[objekt]

If only I had some mod points. :D

Sweet Button 3 and Paste

[doon]

i haven't read the entire thread -- way to long. I stopped by the Apple Store in Albany after work and grabbed one. Played with it a couple minutes in the store. Installed the software (tiger here), set the middle button to just be plain old button 3 and I am super happy that it pastes just like my *nix boxes. Now if only it was wireless, but I am not complaining.. I will use the Bluetooth mouse at my desk on the road (have an 17" PB). Will save me $$ on batteries.

Single-button mice are perfectly fine.

[necro2607]

To everyone who is bashing Apple's "single-button" design:

No one cared about your dislike of the single-button design 15 years ago, no one cares now.

Thanks for coming out, though.

If . . .

[hawk]

If apple can mount a trackball on a mouse, surely the devil can put a hockey puck on a football . . .

:)
hawk

Hmm....I'll buy one.

[mizzoubear56]

Well, I'm a Windows user. I have usually hated Apple, but that's just cool. Thanks doon for reviewing it.

interesting behavior

[Anonymous Coward]

(take this with salt, as I own some Apple stock)

I don't think it has any sensors in its skin.

I've just been using it for the last couple hours on an iBook G4 1.2 GHz, OSX 10.4.2, with the included driver software installed.

Overall, I'd say it's really cool and probably a relatively cheap productivity enhancer. A bit large for my tastes (and my rather small hands).

A quick squeeze to bring up Exposé; the "middle button" to bring up Dashboard; the itty-bitty track ball. It's truly cool.

The only weird behavior I have noticed so far is that when using the minitrackball to scroll pages in Firefox, any miniscule leftish kern will move you back a page or three. While I love the idea, it should be one page per OBVIOUS attempt at a backward scroll. (I tried slowing the scroll speed in Mouse prefs, but it didn't seem to help.)

I doubt this, but it might be an inappropriate, intentional stab at Firefox. No matter how left you scroll the minitrackball in Safari, you don't go back. Probably I just need to adjust my preferences in Firefox.

Keen to try this

[Zhe Mappel]

I'm a confirmed trackballer, even paying highway robbery on eBay to get remaining stock of the greatest ergonomic input device of the 20th century: the original mechanical MS Intellimouse Trackball. It's so comfortable, I'd marry one if it could cook. I've hooked them up to a dozen different systems using PS/2-USB adapters. Bliss--except for the crappy roll wheels that gum up and lose traction if you so much as look at them. Microsoft had the right form factor, and should have stuck with it when they went to optics; instead they built a huge glowing glob, the Rosie O'Donnell of trackballs. Better bring mountain boots and a hefty bag.

Among all the input devices out there the Apple mouse is probably the second most comfortable I've tried, but the no-button stuff was never going to fly for me. Mighty Mouse, though... Let me at the touch-sensitive surface space on Mighty--the 2d touchpad rendered curvaciously 3d--and we might make beautiful music together.

Awesome...

[noneloud]

This is probably the biggest advancement in mouse tech since optical mice were invented. Yes, all the technology was out there already, but Apple were the people who made the experience 100%. I can't wait to see one of these some day.

WTF

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't read everything about it. Looks slick, but what the heck is that thin flexible thing sticking out the end?

I've seen those on mice is old photos. Is it some sort of chain to keep someone from swiping my bluetooth mouse?

"Button" is so 1984

[gabefung]

"We still believe one button mouse is easier to use, but we ahead of industry by providing four button, oops, four "virtual click" mouse in our product line. Button, is so 1984.

Think Differently. In fact, that's so 2046." ;)

Re:MARKET SHARE not URBAN LEGEND

[freeweed]

If you lived in a town with 90% brick houses, and 10% straw, guess which houses the wolves would try blowing down.

Sorry, marketshare has sweet fuck all to do with infectability.

This is coy

[richardcavell]

Apple has found a way to give people what they ought to have - the functionality of a multibutton mouse - while not actually building a mouse with multiple buttons. Is this a silly attempt to not appear to 'give in'?

Re:Same as Microsoft . 'Lockin'

[Ilgaz]

Apple pro mouse is NOT CHEAP. I use my mac with logitech optical trackball recently.

If you manage to break Apple pro mouse which came with your mac and for some reason you like it, check its price.
http://tinyurl.com/cv6nq

I hope you are not trolling as OS X/ OS 9 will run with anything HID compliant (basically everything). I hope you don't know this fact.

Pro mouse missed a wheel, this one fixes it. About buttons? I have seen $20 million advertising projects being designed with Apple "single button" mouse and (of course) Graphic Tablets. Thats the segment never said anything about buttons. There is triple click, long click stuff not known by switchers, thats the thing what generates this pointless discussion.

Buttons matter when you are into FPS gaming.

Great idea for a Haxie: 'grab-and-scroll'...

[argent]

I've been looking for a mouse with a good 2-way controller for some time. The ones out there with tilting scroll wheels are too asymmetrical in the X and Y direction. IBM came up with a mouse with a trackpoint button on it... but the stupid thing only supports up-and-down (HELLO, IBM, DID YOU FORGET WHAT THE POINT OF THE TRACKPOINT WAS?). Unfortunately, the 2-d scrolling on the Apple mouse is one of the features that requires a Tiger upgrade to use.

Ironicaly, a plain old 3-button mouse works VERY WELL as a 2-d scroll mouse. Logitech came up with the ideal solution (though they implemented it badly)... the third button is "grab". You hold it down and move the mouse and you drag the image around under the window... kind of like Adobe's PDF viewer does, except this works in all apps.

Why everyone didn't implement this instead of playing around with a billion variants of the scroll wheel I don't know... well, I guess I do. Logitech's implementation was so badly done (it was never really explained, and it left weird graphics all over the screen, and the eventually abandoned it) that nobody ever realised what a basically cool idea it was.

Someone needs to write a Haxie that makes the 3rd or 4th button do this. The Mighty Mouse's "squeeze" buttons would be ideal for this, because it would actually FEEL like you're grabbing the document you're dragging...

Canceling a drag is one reason for chording

[tepples]

If a piece of software actually requires you to [hold the left mouse button and press the right mouse button], then the Programmer, UI Designer and Usability Engineer should be shot.

You claim that chording is always bad, but consider this: To cancel a click on a button, move the mouse outside the button's border. To cancel a drag with a given button, press the other button before you release it. Or how would you suggest to cancel a drag?

Re:Canceling a drag is one reason for chording

[Thu25245]

Or how would you suggest to cancel a drag?

On a Mac, you'd just move back to where you started and let go.

Re:Canceling a drag is one reason for chording

[tepples]

On a Mac, you'd just move back to where you started and let go.

And then it'd still move a couple pixels. Or does the recent Finder use auto Clean Up now?

Re:Canceling a drag is one reason for chording

[MacT]

Or you could just drop it over the menu bar, and watch "it" fly back to where it came from.

Re:Same as Microsoft . 'Lockin'

[biglig2]

Well, they don't lock you into which mouse you choose.

And I would say it does have value add over a cheap mouse for various reasons:

• cheap mice are ...er...whats the word... cheap.
  
• Apple styling. OK, we're geeks, we're not much into that, but for some people this is important.
  
• I'm already seeing posts from people who use both Mac and PC who are planning to buy more of them to use on their PCs because they like the scroll button
  

pry my logitech out of my cold dead hands..

[mcdade]

I do love my mac, though the one button mouse thing has to be the dumbest thing ever that mac had kept running.. it's like having a horse and cart now and saying that it's better then any other modern transportation (gee, look i don't care about rising gas prices.. but you can't go 300miles in a day).

I have a logitech cordless mouse with multiple buttons and scrollwheel, all of which are useful and supported on the mac, esp useful in scrolling around and using the back forward buttons for navigation. I use it so much that when I use a machine with out it, I instinctively just do those button clicks without thinking, and then realize that the button's don't exist. The one button was a good idea like 10 yrs ago, but get with the times, people don't have to wait for something on the computer to happen and require faster respones to those actions.

Apple should be giving these things away free!

can you say "Oops!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, don't add something that's useful -- like, say, a second _actual_ button. Can you hear the collective Apple community saying "Oops!" in unison as they accidentally delete their documents' contents. Jobs just can't getover himself. Sheesh. Jaz

infringement

[Anonymous Coward]

so when is hanna barbera suing apple for trademark infringement?

I don't need no stinkin' multi-button mouse.

[zeketp]

Using the Command-Click, Option-Click, Control-Click, etc. one can do everything a multi-button mouse can do with only one button. Seeing as I just got a bluetooth Apple mouse for my Powerbook, I will have to wait until this thing at least has bluetooth.
When will we have mice with optical scrolling? I'm tired of cleaning my scroll ball! All jokes aside, I have had a mouse scroll wheel lock up. What happened was, the scroll wheel on a Microsoft *cough* Intellimouse Explorer was rubbing the edges of the mouse's casing, and the rubbing ground off the little ridges on the wheel, which fell into the mouse and jammed the wheel. So I held the mouse upside down and forced the wheel to turn, expelling some bits of rubber, and stripping the wheel bare in process.

Also, I know people who never use the extra buttons on a PC mouse, and when I tried to show them all the things they could do quicker with Right-clicking, they got really confused. Maybe Apple has a point. I'm sure developers can handle using a third party mouse! (They always seem to, because every Mac game I have seems to require at least one form of alternate clicking, and oftentimes they don't use the right function key to do it! Usually, you use Command-Click, but in Neverwinter Nights it uses Option-Click, and I've seen apps that use Control-Click instead for right clicking.)

Is it just me, or...

[http101]

...does this thing just look like one HUGE, retrievable Tic-Tac?

Re:MARKET SHARE not URBAN LEGEND

[anothy]

...I refuse to ignore the simple facts too.

oh, goody. two points then.

1) You correctly observe (implicitly) that virus writers are pretty much just in this for the "d00d! i l33t & have m4d skillz!" factor. This involves visibility, which precludes tiny or new OSs from being targets. But Apple falls into neither of those categories. While their market share is roughly an order of magnitude smaller than Microsoft's, they also make a big deal about their seeming immunity. being able to be the guy who produced the first OS X virus to propagate in the wild is a huge "win". The fact that nobody's capitalized on this shouldn't be understood to represent a lack of trying.

2) Let's look at a closely related realm: web servers. We frequently hear about attacks against IIS; attacks against Apache are exceedingly rare by comparison. Yet Apache runs 2/3 of the web sites out there. 2/3! That's a huge market share, and if market share were the dominant - or even a significant - factor, we should expect to see much greater incidence of Apache attacks in the wild - yet we do not.

So, yeah. Aside from getting above a certain minimal threshold of visibility, market share has a seriously limited effect on virus attack or infection rates.

Re:MARKET SHARE not URBAN LEGEND

[Blitzenn]

That analogy would only hold true if the Apple OS (straw house) was far far less secure that the Windows OS (brick house). I remind you that you are the one who compared Windows to the Brick house, certainly not me. That's blasphemy in my eyes. So your analogy fails in more than one regard.

BIZARRE

[Bryan Ischo]

I had the most bizarre experience today. I was reading the San Jose Mercury News over my morning bowl of grape-nuts and I saw a story posted about the new mouse, and within the first couple of paragraphs was THE PARENT POST QUOTED FROM SLASHDOT. Unbelievable. I've read a slashdot post from a newspaper before seeing it on the actual slashdot web site. WTF is the world coming to.

Scroll bar alternatives

[Arru]

Scroll bars are a ubiquitous UI component. There's not really any way around them because we need to display more information than can fit on a screen. But they're terrible from an HCI standpoint, because the misstep rate is high and they're a difficult target to hit with a mouse. Since they're terrible and they can't be avoided, improvements are welcome. Scroll wheels are rediculously easy to use and the misstep rate is very low. They're very intuitive, almost as intuitive as a mouse itself. Therefore, they're a good idea.

You are right, scrolling is unavoidable in some circumstances (such as editing printout documents) but the scroll wheel rings too loud on the "add another poorly integrated feature" bell. I propose the much simpler solution of using the "hand" cursor to move around, in any read-only document like web pages it should be the default tool. And before anyone says the scroll wheel/ball is easier: why do we retain that mouse underneath the scroll wheel then?

On another note: if you're gonna buy the MM for Linux use, make sure the drivers support 2-dimensional scrolling since it's reportedly not functioning in windows.

Re:Scroll bar alternatives

[ArbitraryConstant]

"You are right, scrolling is unavoidable in some circumstances (such as editing printout documents) but the scroll wheel rings too loud on the "add another poorly integrated feature" bell."

I disagree. It's not adding a poorly integrated feature, it's refining one that's been around since GUIs were born.

"I propose the much simpler solution of using the "hand" cursor to move around, in any read-only document like web pages it should be the default tool."

Your idea would work, but given the size of the motion necessary to do it and the repetitive nature I think it would be tiring. I'm not just saying that in a theoretical sense either, Adobe's Linux PDF reader didn't always support the scroll wheel and you were stuck with the hand tool/scroll bar. I found that very annoying, and now that the wheel is supported I'm much happier.

This can and has been argued back and forth endlessly, but I think there's a middle ground most people have been missing. Most people can figure things like the scroll wheel and the right mouse button out in minutes regardless of how much experience they have. We're not talking about inexperienced users here, we're talking about users who aren't capable of figuring it out, ever. A good interface is discoverable, but those users are not capable of discovery.

I'm not saying these users are stupid because I know some smart ones. I'm not opposed to leaving a lowest-common-method around for them, but the majority of us can do better and I don't see why we should sacrifice so a minority can be protected from things they're not going to figure out.

"And before anyone says the scroll wheel/ball is easier: why do we retain that mouse underneath the scroll wheel then?"

The scroll wheel doesn't generalize as a pointing device. A wheel is better at scrolling, not everything. Similarly, a keyboard can be used to handle a graphical interface, but expediency leads us towards the mouse because it's so much better at what it does that it would be stupid to use anything else.

People that want the most orthogonal interface possible miss something: expediency. There are situations where something that takes minutes learn makes a task so much easier and faster that it becomes impractical to do it any other way. We use mice instead of keyboards or touch screens because they're way better at the job. We (most of us anyway) use scroll wheels because there's a graphical operation that is so common it justifies dedicated hardware for the job, and that hardware is much better at it.

"On another note: if you're gonna buy the MM for Linux use, make sure the drivers support 2-dimensional scrolling since it's reportedly not functioning in windows."

Thanks for pointing that out. It had occured to me (I was going to wait to see how that turned out), but it's probably best that the warning is in a public place. :)

Scroll wheel nice, but bad default

[Arru]

"The scroll wheel doesn't generalize as a pointing device. A wheel is better at scrolling, not everything. Similarly, a keyboard can be used to handle a graphical interface, but expediency leads us towards the mouse because it's so much better at what it does that it would be stupid to use anything else."

I find the scroll wheel/ball handy too, actually. What I meant was that adding more wheels/buttons to the mouse feels wrong...we're just sooo close to interfaces that REQUIRE a scroll wheel mouse. Take Blender for instance, where the wheel is expected to such a degree that using a stylus instead of a mouse (otherwise great precision and all, quite common graphics/CAD device) gets quirky.

Basically the same point as with single/multiple buttons: with clever developers this wouldn't ever be a problem, unfortunately some developers are not that clever when it comes to UI design and need some (artificial) restrictions.

Re:Scroll wheel nice, but bad default

[ArbitraryConstant]

"Take Blender for instance, where the wheel is expected to such a degree that using a stylus instead of a mouse (otherwise great precision and all, quite common graphics/CAD device) gets quirky."

I don't know that software or CAD input devices so I'll have to take your word for it. I agree that's a problem.

"Basically the same point as with single/multiple buttons: with clever developers this wouldn't ever be a problem, unfortunately some developers are not that clever when it comes to UI design and need some (artificial) restrictions."

I agree. But we're essentially faced with a choice between two problems: developers that can't read a HIG, and artificially restricting users.