Huh? You're either an overdefensive Windows user or you didn't understand the story.
This "Evidence Eliminator" trash is a Visual Basic application. What is the only operating system in the universe it will run on? Windows.
What would you call anyone who would shell out real money for this thing after a 5-second look at the "Evidence Eliminator" front page? "Loser" seems fair enough to me. You could make a case for "moron", I suppose.:-)
So when Eric says:
I mean, what do I care about what Windows losers get scammed out of?
It's merely because "AIX losers" and "HPUX losers" can't apply. That was "Evidence Eliminator's" choice, not Eric's.
Your response seems downright... Freudian. After all, you can't be a "Windows loser" unless you're already a loser.
-Jay-
As a couple of people have pointed out in other postings, it's not the pristine halon that's the threat to people... It's the combustion products of halon that are extremely nasty.
But not more nasty than burning plastic (we're talking about computer room fires here), and so irrelevant to the discussion.
Think about it and ask yourself why it would be illegal?
Because concentrations sufficient to suppress fire
in the top half of the room will result in non-life-sustaining concentrations at the floor, and
people die. Like this....
Building codes (and fire departments) tend to frown on things like that in ordinary commercial inhabited spaces. The link above refers to a false CO2 suppression release in a heavy industrial setting where water would be a really
bad idea (a 4MV switch/breaker room), and presumably they did frequent emergency training, and they still killed a worker.
If it's legal for an inhabited commercial space in your jurisdiction (where, by the way?), that's
interesting. The person who spec'ed the rooms this way is an incompetent moron, though.
Actually, lemme amend that: it does displace the atmosphere and lower the oxygen to where it's unbreathable.
No. That is just not true. Period. You're making this up. A commercial/residential full-room fire suppression system that operated by "lowering the oxygen to where it's unbreathable" would be illegal in every state, county and city in the country. Use your common sense. If you can't use your common sense, use Google!:-)
You may find a search there for "halon toxicity" to be illuminating.
Full-room Halon suppression systems work at concentrations from 5-15%. At these concentrations, at sea level, you've got far more available O2 than at 7000' cabin pressure in a commercial airliner. Or walking down the sidewalk in downtown Denver, for that matter.
There are four or five different non-CFC alternatives to Halon 1301 on the market, but suppression system manufacturers still continue to look very hard for alternatives exactly because nobody has found one as effective and safe as 1301.
Later I worked in rooms protected by CO2. This was definitely get out quickly time. In the end, what with the computer room being in the basement, there were safety concerns and the system was disconnected.
Not to mention that a full-room CO2 supression system in a commercial or residential space is totally illegal. It is very difficult to imagine this getting past a city/county permit process anywhere in the United States.
> The old server rooms we protected with Halon systems required 'life support'
> equipment in case you were in the server room when the system discharged.
I can attest to this fact myself.
Oh, nonsense. This is clueless, not insightful.
If a fire broke out in the server room, first a very bright red light would turn on in the room, followed by rapid beeping
Main reason for this is so you can abort the discharge in the event of false alarm. Every halon system I've ever been around (three of 'em) has had at least one false discharge in it's life.
After 15 seconds of THAT warning, a ear-piercing alarm would sound off in the room, and I mean ear-piercingly loud and high-pitched. A light would also turn on over the door to the server room with a sign reading "DO NOT ENTER -- HALON IN USE" near it. That's phase two.
That's because if you open the door, you let the halon out and provide fresh oxygen to a (presumably) active fire, not because the halon
is dangerous. Jeez.
At phase three, if you're still in the room, you're either now burning to death or suffocating, or both.
Well, if you're standing around in a burning room, you're a moron, but if you're suffocating, it's not because of a 10% halon concentration. I have stood in the middle of a computer room during an
inadvertent halon discharge (maintenance guy screwed up during the annual system test), and it's a total non-event (except for being very loud, and every single loose dust particle and piece of paper in the room flying around!).
I must be outdated or something but what is Halon. I can only guess that it contains halogens. If so wouldn't it be reactive?
Yup. Otherwise it wouldn't work!. Regardless of the 90% of posters here who are under the clueless delusion that halon works via air displacement (duh, if that's what you wanted, CO2 or N2 would be a lot cheaper), halon works by breaking down in the presence of heat/flame. The (rather nasty, but not as nasty as a room full of burning plastic) breakdown products are what kills combustion.
Back in the dawn of time, I had a 2500 sq ft computer room with halon, and we had to do a test
discharge with halon density measurements to qualify for fire insurance discounts. They set sniffer probes at the ceiling, mid-room and under
the raised floor, and needed to see no less than
5% anywhere in the room, which we barely met at the ceiling. Underfloor was something like 15%.
We entered the room immediately after the test, no problem breathing, of course. Feels a little wierd at the back of your throat when you inhale, though.
Should not take anywhere close to that long. The ones I have generally come on in less than a second from I hit the switch, and I am not able to perceive any increase in ligth-output after the first 3 seconds or so.
Hey, that's great! I guess I'm just too stupid
to find a light like this; everything I've tried
from GE, Philips and Sylvania has had extremely
noticeable warm up.
But you've apparently id'ed a 25-30W CFL with no perceptable
warm up period, for $5! But you forgot the
manufacturer, part number, and retail outlet.
Let us know!
Today you can buy pluorescents compact-bulbs that fit in a normal bulb-socket, are 5 times as efficient as a standard bulb, cost around 2$ a piece, are available in wattages up to 25 W (equivalent to 125W standardbulb), and last for around 10000 hours.
My problem with consumer compact fluorescent lamps is the
warmup time. I'm a pretty green sorta guy, but that doesn't stop it from sucking when I can't
really see in my garage for 2-3 minutes
while the CF lamps work their way up to full output. (Or are there magic CF lamps that everybody except me knows about that hit full output in 5 seconds, instead?)
If I have to put up with peaky spectrum, at least
give me quick on time.
Recoil mitigation? On a Laser weapon? I don't get it, where does the recoil come from.
RTFA. Recoil would come from pulling the cork on
a 4000 PSI pressure chamber to release a
mach 6 gas stream into the laser resonance
chamber.
This thing ain't no laser-pointer, kid. I don't
know if it'll ever be worth a damn as a laser rifle,
but it might make a pretty good bomb after that pressure chamber goes through 40-50 thousand
cycles (shots).
Those of us that have been around the block more than twice know that asynchronous design has been
the technology of the future for a long, long time. My personal experience goes back to the mid-seventies, but I'm sure there were asynch he-men doing their thing with vacuum tubes and RTL.:-)
The catch, then as now, is that asynch logic is just plain more difficult for our tiny little human brains to grok. This was true back in the days when humans designed their own logic, and it is even more true now when 99%+ of all logic is designed not by humans, but by logic synthesis software (Synopsys DC and Cadence PKS).
Slashdot Mirror
Huh? You're either an overdefensive Windows user or you didn't understand the story. This "Evidence Eliminator" trash is a Visual Basic application. What is the only operating system in the universe it will run on? Windows. What would you call anyone who would shell out real money for this thing after a 5-second look at the "Evidence Eliminator" front page? "Loser" seems fair enough to me. You could make a case for "moron", I suppose. :-)
So when Eric says:
I mean, what do I care about what Windows losers get scammed out of?
It's merely because "AIX losers" and "HPUX losers" can't apply. That was "Evidence Eliminator's" choice, not Eric's.
Your response seems downright... Freudian. After all, you can't be a "Windows loser" unless you're already a loser.
-Jay-
But not more nasty than burning plastic (we're talking about computer room fires here), and so irrelevant to the discussion.
Because concentrations sufficient to suppress fire in the top half of the room will result in non-life-sustaining concentrations at the floor, and people die. Like this....
Building codes (and fire departments) tend to frown on things like that in ordinary commercial inhabited spaces. The link above refers to a false CO2 suppression release in a heavy industrial setting where water would be a really bad idea (a 4MV switch/breaker room), and presumably they did frequent emergency training, and they still killed a worker.
If it's legal for an inhabited commercial space in your jurisdiction (where, by the way?), that's interesting. The person who spec'ed the rooms this way is an incompetent moron, though.
No. That is just not true. Period. You're making this up. A commercial/residential full-room fire suppression system that operated by "lowering the oxygen to where it's unbreathable" would be illegal in every state, county and city in the country. Use your common sense. If you can't use your common sense, use Google! :-)
You may find a search there for "halon toxicity" to be illuminating.
Full-room Halon suppression systems work at concentrations from 5-15%. At these concentrations, at sea level, you've got far more available O2 than at 7000' cabin pressure in a commercial airliner. Or walking down the sidewalk in downtown Denver, for that matter.
There are four or five different non-CFC alternatives to Halon 1301 on the market, but suppression system manufacturers still continue to look very hard for alternatives exactly because nobody has found one as effective and safe as 1301.
Not to mention that a full-room CO2 supression system in a commercial or residential space is totally illegal. It is very difficult to imagine this getting past a city/county permit process anywhere in the United States.
> equipment in case you were in the server room when the system discharged.
I can attest to this fact myself.
Oh, nonsense. This is clueless, not insightful.
If a fire broke out in the server room, first a very bright red light would turn on in the room, followed by rapid beeping
Main reason for this is so you can abort the discharge in the event of false alarm. Every halon system I've ever been around (three of 'em) has had at least one false discharge in it's life.
After 15 seconds of THAT warning, a ear-piercing alarm would sound off in the room, and I mean ear-piercingly loud and high-pitched. A light would also turn on over the door to the server room with a sign reading "DO NOT ENTER -- HALON IN USE" near it. That's phase two.
That's because if you open the door, you let the halon out and provide fresh oxygen to a (presumably) active fire, not because the halon is dangerous. Jeez.
At phase three, if you're still in the room, you're either now burning to death or suffocating, or both.
Well, if you're standing around in a burning room, you're a moron, but if you're suffocating, it's not because of a 10% halon concentration. I have stood in the middle of a computer room during an inadvertent halon discharge (maintenance guy screwed up during the annual system test), and it's a total non-event (except for being very loud, and every single loose dust particle and piece of paper in the room flying around!).
Yup. Otherwise it wouldn't work!. Regardless of the 90% of posters here who are under the clueless delusion that halon works via air displacement (duh, if that's what you wanted, CO2 or N2 would be a lot cheaper), halon works by breaking down in the presence of heat/flame. The (rather nasty, but not as nasty as a room full of burning plastic) breakdown products are what kills combustion.
Back in the dawn of time, I had a 2500 sq ft computer room with halon, and we had to do a test discharge with halon density measurements to qualify for fire insurance discounts. They set sniffer probes at the ceiling, mid-room and under the raised floor, and needed to see no less than 5% anywhere in the room, which we barely met at the ceiling. Underfloor was something like 15%.
We entered the room immediately after the test, no problem breathing, of course. Feels a little wierd at the back of your throat when you inhale, though.
Correct, nobody in their right mind (with a choice) would try to serve NFS/DNS/SMTP/IMAP/LDAP etc. to a bunch of *nix boxes from a Windows server.
But lots of people do just the opposite and serve SMB/AD/DNS/SMTP/IMAP to a bunch of PCs from a *nix server.
This scares the crap out of Microsoft strategic planning folks that have their brains turned on.
pity the person who has to rely on NFS for any kind of performance
??? You mean just on Windows platform, right?
Hey, that's great! I guess I'm just too stupid to find a light like this; everything I've tried from GE, Philips and Sylvania has had extremely noticeable warm up.
But you've apparently id'ed a 25-30W CFL with no perceptable warm up period, for $5! But you forgot the manufacturer, part number, and retail outlet. Let us know!
My problem with consumer compact fluorescent lamps is the warmup time. I'm a pretty green sorta guy, but that doesn't stop it from sucking when I can't really see in my garage for 2-3 minutes while the CF lamps work their way up to full output. (Or are there magic CF lamps that everybody except me knows about that hit full output in 5 seconds, instead?)
If I have to put up with peaky spectrum, at least give me quick on time.
RTFA. Recoil would come from pulling the cork on a 4000 PSI pressure chamber to release a mach 6 gas stream into the laser resonance chamber.
This thing ain't no laser-pointer, kid. I don't know if it'll ever be worth a damn as a laser rifle, but it might make a pretty good bomb after that pressure chamber goes through 40-50 thousand cycles (shots).
Ummm, "4gb" maximum? It's a toy, and the author doesn't know the difference between bytes and bits.
Those of us that have been around the block more than twice know that asynchronous design has been the technology of the future for a long, long time. My personal experience goes back to the mid-seventies, but I'm sure there were asynch he-men doing their thing with vacuum tubes and RTL. :-)
The catch, then as now, is that asynch logic is just plain more difficult for our tiny little human brains to grok. This was true back in the days when humans designed their own logic, and it is even more true now when 99%+ of all logic is designed not by humans, but by logic synthesis software (Synopsys DC and Cadence PKS).
That said, there are always folks out there doing Cool Stuff w/asynch circuits. Hope that Ivan Sutherlands's group at Sun Labs survives Sun's recent massive layoffs.