Not all Aussies are bigoted hypocrites. The same system, (in fact the same court and prosecuter) put the "bali bombers" to death, back then Aussies were slapping them on the back and saying "good job".
"...prisoners of war are not given "due process", and are not "criminals". Why do you want to treat enemy combatants as if they had all the rights of a U.S. citizen?" - I can't recall saying they should be treated as citizens of the US. "Enemy combatants" are neither prisoners of war nor criminals, the Administration carefully relabeled them in a (so far successful) attempt to remove any accountability. The UK accepted it made a mistake when the house of Lords spoke out against such laws, the Administration has so far ignored similar actions by the supreme court. With regards to TFA it now appears they want to start doing the same thing to thier own "enemy citizens".
You are being pedantic, I never claimed Hitler was directly elected to Supreme Dictator. The parlimentry election was democratic and the Nazi's came out on top, alot like the democratic politics behind Sharron in Isreal.
"I don't know, why do they want their own GPS systems?" - Because it is a strategic asset and they have lost faith in the US government. A war between the US and EU or China is something thier Generals have obviously thought about recently. You should be proud to be a US citizen, the US has done and is still doing many good things but I have to say I am glad we are starting to frustrate you. This is nothing personal it is just that you people have the power to do something about the loose cannon running your country, we don't.
Actually I did see and read that article a few days ago along with the offending editorial in the Amnesty report, it blew me over that the Washington Post got themselves into a patriotic lather and missed the point. The argument is not about politics or Stalin it is about human rights and accountability. The main points the report made about the US was that the Administration has already ignored the supreme court, ignored the geneva convention, ignored due process, ignores both discreate and public requests by the red cross and amnesty, ignored your own constitution and creates secret laws for secret detentions (the type of laws that enabled gulags to exist in the first place). The Administration is yet to make a coherent public reply to any of those points, unless you count the gang of three chanting "Trust us, Stalin was worse" as relevant.
"The men at Gitmo are prisoners of war and they're being treated better than any POWs is the history of the world."
Amnesty is doing the same job that the Administration has congratulated them for many times in the recent past. In other words Amnesty is quite correctly asking the Administration to follow standard humanitarian monitoring (something that is tolerated by many Middle East countries) and a qaint convention called "due process". This is so the rest of the planet can go half way to beliving that statement and as a result may put a little less effort in trying to kill you. Amnesty have done the planet a great service by asking the question loudly, unfortunately the rest of world simply shuddered when it saw the reaction. If supporting due process and accountability is a "leftist" position then I'm a pinko-eco-terrorist and your a baby-eating facist from the ministry of information.
"Go to ANY Islamic country"
Are you happy to wait until your country is worse than Saudi Arabia before you stop swallowing "trust us, were the government" statements?
I am part of "the rest of the world" and can understand your sentiments (even though China is in reality very influencial and often scary). The reason the rest of us are scared by the US is that huge fucking military machine you have marching around the planet at a moments notice. You are the sole remaining super-power, armed to the teeth and going broke is not a good combination. Why do you think Europe and China want thier own GPS systems?
You are right about pointing fingers at other countries being irrelavant. Sure there are other countries that are "worse" but that argument can always be used until the US actually becomes the worst. Who in thier right mind wants the worlds last super-power to also be the worst govt on the planet before they do something about it?
I would be the last to support the Chineese style of govt but an interesting comparison with China is that over the last 30yrs it has dragged 600 million people above the $1/day poverty line and impoved the standard of living for another few hundred million. These results don't justify thier means but on two important human-rights issues, aleviating abject poverty and banishing starvation, China has done far more than anyone in the last few decades.
Space ship earth is full and it's life support system is playing up. Historians, bioligists, phycologist and even sci-fi writers have warned us what to expect next.
For what it's worth, I took the word "vote" as a general antidote to apathy, I also took the "nobody cares" phrase of the GP as a generalisation of the prevailing apathy. I suggest you may both be on the same side.:)
As far as detaining "terrorists" is concerned, the "alternative" you speak of is called "the Geneva convention". The Administration found they were bound to it by international treaty but apparently they didn't like some parts of it so came up with the Patriot Act instead.
"Fighting against the country without a good, thought out reason is being a traitor. A stupid one." - The Administration's publicly stated reasoning for ignoring the Geneva convention, your own constitution and the Supreme Court can be summed up as "the war on terror is not a war". - Nuff said.
I agree and actually had the current administration in mind when I said "US". Unfortunately I think the best hope for the US (and the rest of us) is that the economic pain from Bush's policy starts to bite sooner rather than later. Hitler was enthusiastically voted into power and used entertaining street parties for a few years but by the end of WW2 one out of every two Germans had been "detained" by thier own Military machine. The current Administration are traitors to the constitution they swore to uphold, they need to be made accountable to demonstrate that the American people actually do understand and respect the rule of law even if thier current crop of politicians don't.
I also live in Oz, I imagine the US experience to be similar to our own. We both have idefinite detention centers, we treat environmentalists like a subversive movement, we steal oil from our neighbours, the popular media sprukes for the right-wing and now it looks like we will both have laws that allow spooks to spy on you without oversight.
On a local note, according to tonights edition of ABC's Mediawatch program the ABC may soon be put up for tender because of lobbying pressure from SKY NEWS. ( For our US friends the ABC is our version of the UK's BBC)
Amnesty international used the word "Gulag" to provoke a reaction and got an amazing over-reaction. If democracy and human rights have any chance off success then the American people must take that report seriously and demand the "detention" centers be opened up to scrutiny and the people within them given due process. Hiding people in a "black hole" run by the military is by definition the opposite of a freedom loving country. If the US cannot demonstrate the rule of law by example then it does not deserve anymore respect than a warlord in a cave.
"Google didn't just start out with scads of money and thousands of employees. They started out with two students, an algorithm, a couple servers, and a free webservice."
I'm not sure how much a "scad" is but TFA states they started out with an initial $1M investment.
"See research made the correlation that the group of smart people have health problems." - It's only a predicted correlation.
TFA - "But the thesis also has a strong point: it makes a clear and testable prediction.".
Five points IQ difference was predicted (they have not done the experiment yet!), that's a clear prediction, but to belive it's testable requires an assumption. To argue that those particular genes and intelligence are even related, the paper must also assume that two intellects can be compared to that degree of accuracy. To me that assumption requires a huge leap of faith and turns it into a pile of waffle, easy to dismiss, without ever mentioning the ugly politics driving this crap.
OTOH: Iff someone can accept that dubious assumption, they are entitled to jump on thier conclusion mat. (assuming they actually performed the experiment and found the predicted result).
Not only is the research "politically incorrect", it is also entirely based on the dubious assumption that we fully understand how to compare two different intellects and obtain data points with a resolution of 5% or less.
"Gentlemen, you are arguing in a vacum. There are no facts." - Mr. Spock.
Although the GP post obviously knows little about the CSM, the only hate mongering I can find is in YOUR cowardly expletive ridden reply. As for wiki and ignorance, they define bigot as "a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own". The bigot tag (using your own source) seems to fit YOUR post much better than the GP's
BTW: Like it or not the GP was correct when they stated the CSM is not the best source for science news but this has more to do with the "layman" nature of the content rather than any perceptible bias.
"IF you are poor, then you poorly provide for your family, should you have one."
I think the financial system is a set of axioms created by man, nature had nothing to do with (unless money is growing on trees nowadays?).
"Those who don't fit in, don't continue on and they are quickly bred out of the population."
Actually the rate of reproduction goes up when living standards go down (inversely proportional). This is due to needing someone to look after them in thier old age because they don't have the resources to do it themselves.
"Are you saying that we should all ram planes into buildings to justify a society we don't like? Shit, there wouldn't be anything left!"
Everyone knows it is much more efficient to drop bombs onto societies we don't like and keep the planes for use against the next society we take a disliking to.
"When was the last time you dug a ditch, baby?"
That is a trick question. A rich man does not dig a ditch he pays a poor man to do it for him and then sells the ditch for a profit.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, he hired the countries top lawyers.
Be my guest, I can't be bothered to figure out if CopyRight or CopyLeft would apply :)
Not all Aussies are bigoted hypocrites. The same system, (in fact the same court and prosecuter) put the "bali bombers" to death, back then Aussies were slapping them on the back and saying "good job".
"...prisoners of war are not given "due process", and are not "criminals". Why do you want to treat enemy combatants as if they had all the rights of a U.S. citizen?" - I can't recall saying they should be treated as citizens of the US. "Enemy combatants" are neither prisoners of war nor criminals, the Administration carefully relabeled them in a (so far successful) attempt to remove any accountability. The UK accepted it made a mistake when the house of Lords spoke out against such laws, the Administration has so far ignored similar actions by the supreme court. With regards to TFA it now appears they want to start doing the same thing to thier own "enemy citizens".
Another fine book by Orwell is called "Animal Farm", it has a lot to say about manipulating constitutions.
It provoked a reaction because it was an exageration (ie: there is some kernel of truth and it hit a sore spot).
You are being pedantic, I never claimed Hitler was directly elected to Supreme Dictator. The parlimentry election was democratic and the Nazi's came out on top, alot like the democratic politics behind Sharron in Isreal.
No, I am talking about Bush spending beyond your countries means, regardless of his politics this will eventually send you broke.
"I don't know, why do they want their own GPS systems?" - Because it is a strategic asset and they have lost faith in the US government. A war between the US and EU or China is something thier Generals have obviously thought about recently. You should be proud to be a US citizen, the US has done and is still doing many good things but I have to say I am glad we are starting to frustrate you. This is nothing personal it is just that you people have the power to do something about the loose cannon running your country, we don't.
Actually I did see and read that article a few days ago along with the offending editorial in the Amnesty report, it blew me over that the Washington Post got themselves into a patriotic lather and missed the point. The argument is not about politics or Stalin it is about human rights and accountability. The main points the report made about the US was that the Administration has already ignored the supreme court, ignored the geneva convention, ignored due process, ignores both discreate and public requests by the red cross and amnesty, ignored your own constitution and creates secret laws for secret detentions (the type of laws that enabled gulags to exist in the first place). The Administration is yet to make a coherent public reply to any of those points, unless you count the gang of three chanting "Trust us, Stalin was worse" as relevant.
"The men at Gitmo are prisoners of war and they're being treated better than any POWs is the history of the world."
Amnesty is doing the same job that the Administration has congratulated them for many times in the recent past. In other words Amnesty is quite correctly asking the Administration to follow standard humanitarian monitoring (something that is tolerated by many Middle East countries) and a qaint convention called "due process". This is so the rest of the planet can go half way to beliving that statement and as a result may put a little less effort in trying to kill you. Amnesty have done the planet a great service by asking the question loudly, unfortunately the rest of world simply shuddered when it saw the reaction. If supporting due process and accountability is a "leftist" position then I'm a pinko-eco-terrorist and your a baby-eating facist from the ministry of information.
"Go to ANY Islamic country"
Are you happy to wait until your country is worse than Saudi Arabia before you stop swallowing "trust us, were the government" statements?
I am part of "the rest of the world" and can understand your sentiments (even though China is in reality very influencial and often scary). The reason the rest of us are scared by the US is that huge fucking military machine you have marching around the planet at a moments notice. You are the sole remaining super-power, armed to the teeth and going broke is not a good combination. Why do you think Europe and China want thier own GPS systems?
You are right about pointing fingers at other countries being irrelavant. Sure there are other countries that are "worse" but that argument can always be used until the US actually becomes the worst. Who in thier right mind wants the worlds last super-power to also be the worst govt on the planet before they do something about it?
I would be the last to support the Chineese style of govt but an interesting comparison with China is that over the last 30yrs it has dragged 600 million people above the $1/day poverty line and impoved the standard of living for another few hundred million. These results don't justify thier means but on two important human-rights issues, aleviating abject poverty and banishing starvation, China has done far more than anyone in the last few decades.
Space ship earth is full and it's life support system is playing up. Historians, bioligists, phycologist and even sci-fi writers have warned us what to expect next.
For what it's worth, I took the word "vote" as a general antidote to apathy, I also took the "nobody cares" phrase of the GP as a generalisation of the prevailing apathy. I suggest you may both be on the same side. :)
As far as detaining "terrorists" is concerned, the "alternative" you speak of is called "the Geneva convention". The Administration found they were bound to it by international treaty but apparently they didn't like some parts of it so came up with the Patriot Act instead.
"Fighting against the country without a good, thought out reason is being a traitor. A stupid one." - The Administration's publicly stated reasoning for ignoring the Geneva convention, your own constitution and the Supreme Court can be summed up as "the war on terror is not a war". - Nuff said.
I agree and actually had the current administration in mind when I said "US". Unfortunately I think the best hope for the US (and the rest of us) is that the economic pain from Bush's policy starts to bite sooner rather than later. Hitler was enthusiastically voted into power and used entertaining street parties for a few years but by the end of WW2 one out of every two Germans had been "detained" by thier own Military machine. The current Administration are traitors to the constitution they swore to uphold, they need to be made accountable to demonstrate that the American people actually do understand and respect the rule of law even if thier current crop of politicians don't.
I also live in Oz, I imagine the US experience to be similar to our own. We both have idefinite detention centers, we treat environmentalists like a subversive movement, we steal oil from our neighbours, the popular media sprukes for the right-wing and now it looks like we will both have laws that allow spooks to spy on you without oversight.
On a local note, according to tonights edition of ABC's Mediawatch program the ABC may soon be put up for tender because of lobbying pressure from SKY NEWS. ( For our US friends the ABC is our version of the UK's BBC)
Amnesty international used the word "Gulag" to provoke a reaction and got an amazing over-reaction. If democracy and human rights have any chance off success then the American people must take that report seriously and demand the "detention" centers be opened up to scrutiny and the people within them given due process. Hiding people in a "black hole" run by the military is by definition the opposite of a freedom loving country. If the US cannot demonstrate the rule of law by example then it does not deserve anymore respect than a warlord in a cave.
"That sounds straight out of 1984." - "Love gun"? Sounds more like Austin Powers to me baby.
"Google didn't just start out with scads of money and thousands of employees. They started out with two students, an algorithm, a couple servers, and a free webservice."
I'm not sure how much a "scad" is but TFA states they started out with an initial $1M investment.
Then you need to be more creative to survive, lobbying the govt. to legally restrict others from making eggs on toast is moronic.
It's worse than that.
"See research made the correlation that the group of smart people have health problems." - It's only a predicted correlation.
TFA - "But the thesis also has a strong point: it makes a clear and testable prediction.".
Five points IQ difference was predicted (they have not done the experiment yet!), that's a clear prediction, but to belive it's testable requires an assumption. To argue that those particular genes and intelligence are even related, the paper must also assume that two intellects can be compared to that degree of accuracy. To me that assumption requires a huge leap of faith and turns it into a pile of waffle, easy to dismiss, without ever mentioning the ugly politics driving this crap.
OTOH: Iff someone can accept that dubious assumption, they are entitled to jump on thier conclusion mat. (assuming they actually performed the experiment and found the predicted result).
Not only is the research "politically incorrect", it is also entirely based on the dubious assumption that we fully understand how to compare two different intellects and obtain data points with a resolution of 5% or less.
"Gentlemen, you are arguing in a vacum. There are no facts." - Mr. Spock.
Although the GP post obviously knows little about the CSM, the only hate mongering I can find is in YOUR cowardly expletive ridden reply. As for wiki and ignorance, they define bigot as "a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own". The bigot tag (using your own source) seems to fit YOUR post much better than the GP's
BTW: Like it or not the GP was correct when they stated the CSM is not the best source for science news but this has more to do with the "layman" nature of the content rather than any perceptible bias.
"IF you are poor, then you poorly provide for your family, should you have one."
I think the financial system is a set of axioms created by man, nature had nothing to do with (unless money is growing on trees nowadays?).
"Those who don't fit in, don't continue on and they are quickly bred out of the population."
Actually the rate of reproduction goes up when living standards go down (inversely proportional). This is due to needing someone to look after them in thier old age because they don't have the resources to do it themselves.
"Are you saying that we should all ram planes into buildings to justify a society we don't like? Shit, there wouldn't be anything left!"
Everyone knows it is much more efficient to drop bombs onto societies we don't like and keep the planes for use against the next society we take a disliking to.
"When was the last time you dug a ditch, baby?"
That is a trick question. A rich man does not dig a ditch he pays a poor man to do it for him and then sells the ditch for a profit.
I watched Marine Boy in the 60's and I am still waiting for this type of thing to get off the drawing board.