Slashdot Mirror
China Forces Websites To Register
Rodrigo Strauss writes "The Inquirer has the story that individual owners of websites and blogs must register with the government or face a shut-down. Apparently they will begin monitoring of all sites, both commercial and personal, beginning this month. Site owners have until the end of the month to register. The BBC has the story as well." From the BBC article: "'The internet has profited many people but it also has brought many problems, such as sex, violence and feudal superstitions and other harmful information that has seriously poisoned people's spirits,' said a statement on the MII website, explaining why the new rules were necessary."
everyone knows that this is really for the good of the PeopLE. the internet hAs poiSonEd our country as a wHolE and we must not alLow it to subvert our years of history, and tradition or Pollute our culture. i aM glad that our nation is taking a stand to assurE we stay united through this and any other time or crisis.
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
I wonder how long it will be until China just disconnects itself from the global Internet?
Have you read my blog lately?
Remember everyone, despite seeming very capitalist lately, China is communist. This wouldn't be even an article if it happened in Cuba.
And since when this is a problem? How did they reach 1.3 billion?
Will this include major China-based spammer services like Black Box Hosting? "Our offshore bullet proof web hosting plans allow bulk email hosting, spam friendly web hosting and bulletproof host."
My colleagues and I have found it much more difficult to download email from the US while in the PRC in the past month.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Is all I have to say, I'm rather disgusted by this. And what do they do after you register? Can your site be shut down if they don't "agree" with your site (ideas)? And they should know they cannot regulate this outside of sites served from China, so what's the point? This just annoys me.
"Poison people's spirit" in other worlds "It will stop making them naive little hate mongers we can control". Not to insult the Chinese or anything but when you live in a world of ignorance you become a happy little smurf and just do what you're told. Statements like the above just prove that the "happiness" is forced upon them by the government and not happiness at all.
I like muppets.
other harmful information that has seriously poisoned people's spirits
In the US we just call these Web sites that suck.
How about the Chinese government assign a site rating at the time of registration? Maybe it would clean some of the rabble out.
requires registration, along with most other websites in the 'free' world.
is it really that different when a handful of interlocking gigantic corporations make you register, vs when the government does it?
How long will it take for the US to adopt the same or similar system?
when is slashdot registering ;)
after all, information wants to be free. just as they can't govern ppls thoughts, they won't be able to govern this. They'll ALWAYS be some way around it. What's to stop hosting in neighboring countries, with wifi transmitting connections over the border? Hosting outside, and surf from outside like some big giant proxy to avoid detection.
they should use the internet to connect their ppl, rather than try to cut them off.
bo
bad_outlook
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Is this vague enough for you?
It's time for bush to wake up and smell the coffee that China's government is just as opressive as North Korea's. If we try and do anything about it though, here comes world war 3.
Repeal the DMCA!
I like how feudal superstitions rank amongst the top threats to a Communist government.
"In order for our government to work, you're not allowed to think like that, nor be presented with such ideas."
Such a government seems like it would have to rely upon barriers that prevent intercommunication of popular ideas amongst its citizens, especially with such a large population. Wouldn't it be interesting if 1984 became true in China?
I chide the story submitter for not ending his submission with a question. Allow me to suggest on:
"Could the Internet be the end of China as we know it?"
In Communist China, YOU register WEBSITES!
Isn't this information already available for the most part from the Whois archives?
I realise that Whois isn't very reliable, but in principle it should be correct for most domains.
So this means that China isn't interested in sort of kind of knowing who is responsible for a web site. They want someone that will be responsible in the eyes of the law.
This is likely a very clever way to force self censorship. If your name is registered, you'll make sure that there's no contra band on your web site.
They'll prosecute a few, but many more web sites will comply out of fear.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
Even in US all other media outlets are registerd e.g. News Papers, magazines, Radio, TV etc. Website owners are registerd, How do you think HLS banner is desplayed on impounded sites. blogs are media outlet sometime small sometime big. How should it be different. Have'n you heard about political weblogs!!
My honest opinion? This is completely nuts. I really think the mainland government is getting increasingly out of touch with the rest of the world.
This has nothing to dowith "sex, violence or superstition" at all, but is clearly a blatant attempt to keep track of sites that promote views other than the ones officially recognised by the CCP. The only thing that needs to be kept in check is the CCP itself.
I think what they say is true, with great power comes great corruption.
Actually, I'm heard that the CCP wanted ever child to have the tubes cut. If you wanted to have children in the future, you had to pay the fee to get the tubes reconnected so you may father children.
It's forced birth control
Life is not for the lazy.
How can they expect to solve many problems, such as sex, violence and feudal superstitions just by cutting off their internal websites??? Can't the Chinese surf to external sites, where such problems are rampant???
I wonder how soon before congress will require US citizens to do the same via the use of patriot act or some other bill wrapped in the flag?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
it also has brought many problems, such as sex
I think they are taking this one child policy a bit too far!
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
...the Bush administration is writing up a How-to on this very topic.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
National interests replace freedom everywhere, not just in China.
End of story.
(Oh.. at least the chinese don't care about innovation-killing-patents like my European-Whore-Union next month.)
Step 2: Insert Anti-China, Anti-Communism and Goatse into registration.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: PROFIT!
DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
USA will be doing the same thing and we will have people give long lectures on how this is justified.
"Show me your papers, Yuri!"
Yeah, "feudal superstitions" like "the king is a fink!" That's counterrevolutionary.
--
make install -not war
The American military is engaged in an agressive campaign to collect vital information about critical Eastern technologies. The website-registering technology being showcased at this conference in China would help the Americans in their plans to build a fully democratic nation ruled under an iron fist.
This technology must be banned or restricted from export.
Isn't that what DNS is for?
"The internet has profited many people but it also has brought many problems, such as sex, violence and feudal superstitions and other harmful information..." ...like religious freedom, political freedom, free speech, the unregulated sharing of knoledge and ideas, etc, etc. I mean honestly, is anybody really fooled by this? I'm almost ashamed that my country is actually doing business with these jokers.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
And all the multinational corporations - with the eager support of their governments - are busy to help this government become one of the most influential economy and military power.
With a Communist mafia government, you don't have to choose between "Communism" and "Capitalism". Nor do you with a Capitalist mafia government. It's all just BS to get people to go along with robbing and killing them for the mafia's benefit.
--
make install -not war
what kind of resources are they allocating for this? monitoring all websites? reminds me of an earthlink commercial where the guy finds the end of the internet.
Most of the worlds people who want to run a website are required to host it somewhere, and the hosting provider usually requires a billing address.. So the rest of the world are also not free to publish what they want anonymously, at least not truly anonymously, unless they are using Freenet or some other clever way to hide their identity. Registering with a provider is obviously better than registering with a government, but it is still registering... This being said, I do not quite understand what the China government thinks they are accomplishing here. It is the Internet, what prevents a citizen of China to host a anti-China website anywhere else in the world? I am sure at least some of the non-China hosting providers in the world are unwilling to provide any foreign government with customer information when asked...
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
...that 'true' communism doesn't exist. ANYWHERE. Never will.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Every time they enact and attempt to enforce some sweeping control like this, it costs money. Before you know it, there will be a collapse of the government (okay, so maybe in 50 years). Say what you will about buying Chinese-made products, but there aren't enough deep-pocketed Americans to support all the grand schemes of Communist China.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
In China, is half the population employed by the state to watch the other half, like East Germany was doing? A nation of voyeurs...
Oh well, what the hell...
Thats a good point. Why would China want to immitate American culture? What is so good about our profit/consumption driven culture?
If China wants to have its own internet thats fine with me as long as I can access that internet.
You cant practically run a 'normal' site anonymously anyway:
- You register and get a Domain name..
- You use your ISP's service..
- "free hosting", still can track your IP..
Guess its time for them to start using FreeNet. This is exactally the type of reason it was created.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The way things are going, we might be not too far behind... The difference being that in the US the favourite tool of the evel might rather turn out to be a C&D leter, rather than an actual gun to the head - not quite as deadly, but just as efficient.
It is right that China wanted their own IPvX version that was non-compatible with the normal IPv4/IPv6 standards. They called it IPv6 at one point but since that means something else to the rest of the world they eventually started calling it IPv9. Then someone realized it all was a bad idea (apparently) and nobody has mentioned it in a year or so (they may have a staff of a hundred working full-time on it secretly for all I know, but I *think* it's dead). More here: http://www.circleid.com/article/646_0_1_0_C/
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Why don't we hear more about these things happening in the middle east?
Some of the goverments there have even more to lose by their citizens seeing information from the outside world.
Maybe it is because the general public in those countries not normally having Internet yet?
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
In general, philosophies are rarely corrupt - if there is corruption, it is usually with an interpretation, an individual or (most often of all) both. The underlying ideas are usually not that bad, though there are always exceptions.
Americans, especially, are bad about seeing the defects in others and ignoring their own. Remove the log from your own eye, before removing the speck from your brother's eye. It really does help.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
As long as we can connect to Chinas internet none of this matters. Cultures are not all equal and it should be simple to understand why China wants to avoid the mistakes of our culture. At the same time, I want to be able to access Chinese culture, so as long as their internet is not a closed system I don't really care if they use the American internet or Chinese internet, it makes no difference to me just like it makes no difference to most American consumers if their Walmart products are made in China or America, they just don't care.
The USA is not the most free country on earth. Europe is more free, there are places like the netherlands which have more freedom than we will ever have. China is not bad with human rights, in fact China's human rights history is far better than Americas history of slavery, slaughtering native Americans, exploiting illegal immigration, and outsourcing. America has the worst human rights track record in the developed world, so China with its censorship isnt really anything new from the point of view of an American. Right now the American internet is censored to protect corporations, freedom of speech is being restricted, and while we are losing our freedoms we focus on China? Iraq? Who the hell cares? We have to fight for freedom at home.
Red Bloc implies Lenin/Stalin/Maoism, not straight Marxism or any other Marxist ideology.
This article from news.com.com details an Amnesty International report about the Western corporations who have been happy to help China set up its massive surveillance system. Those of us responsible for buying networking hardware for our companies may want to consider where we want our money to go. I would suggest supporting businesses who don't so blatantly assist in massively squashing basic human rights.
Authorities declare war on unregistered websites and blogs
This is a lot like how China handles Christian churches. I wonder how many people running websites will refuse to comply?
~Impr3ssion
..and I can tell you this about the speed on FreeNet: Start searching for my website now, and it will be finished rendering by the time your grandchildren learn about this in their history class in school...
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
>>...feudal superstitions and other harmful information...
I guess that would be religion, correct?
"Hmm, 'poisoned people's spirits', heh-heh, that's a good one. Gotta git 'ol Karl to work that into mah nixt lie-berry fundin' bill."
Americans define humans are consumers and owners. You own a business or corporation and you are "more" human than a consumer or worker.
Human rights in the USA means corporate rights. The right for a corporation to act as a person. This means the corporation is human and you are just a consumer or worker unless you own your own business.
In the USA you are less human if you arent an owner of a business, you are less human if you don't own patents, copyright (both which usually require you to own a business), stock, and other forms of intellectual property. You are less human if you are a female or minority of some sort in that you most likely won't be treated the same by society in the workplace or corporate world.
In general, being human in America requires you to be rich, and perhaps this is a flaw in our interpretation of human rights because we believe in protecting only those who own stuff and who have wealth.
The internet? According to American culture it exists to help corporations profit more efficiently, and this is the reason every technology exists. China might have something different in mind, we just don't know and I don't think we have the right to force our corporate way of life down their throats by making them use out internet, our operating systems, and surf our websites. Perhaps they want their own?
"Most double-plus-ungood."
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
tyrany never sleeps.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Whenever I see a "I'd take the ruler of North Korea over George W. Bush" or even a simple "US is teh sux0r!" post, it always burns me up that those same people are remarkably silent when we see something like this.
Yep, our nation has some serious problems right now, but we haven't (yet?) even come close to this kind of garbage. So for the next guy who says, "I can't wait for China to replace the US as the global superpower" all I can say is "be careful what you wish for.
What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
I lived in the East (FUSSR-CIS) and the West. There is less freedom of speech in the West. All media as if orchestrated by some invisible hand.
The level of life is lower in the West. The salaries may seem higher, say 10 times, but prices and cost of living is higher at leat 20 times. In medicine it is even more. Quality is worse in the West, especially of food.
I was surprised so much by it. Indeed - things are not always the same as they look from the first sight.
I have never considered sex to be a "problem". I hope this was just a poor translation.
Maybe the so-called leaders of mainland China aren't getting it enough so that those who do pose a threat to them.
How much do you want to bet that these restrictions won't be honored by those in power?
slashdot: A failed experiment.
We really can't say anything because we don't know exactly what's involved in this registration process. What information do they take and is there a background check? Also, can groups or parties register a website or does it have to be an individual? What if a website, that is updated by several people, becomes under question by the government? Does the individual responsible for registering this website take the fall? Seems like these groups/parties will be less willing to register their websites because of these consequences. Then again, this is probably what they want.
True communism in the spirit of Marx also doesn't have anything to do with REALITY.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Crime has everything to do with how people think and what their priorities are and nothing to do with the means in which they express their violent actions.
A gun is deadly, so is poison, so is a bomb, so are ideas, just about anything can be turned into a weapon. Violence ends when people learn to love instead of hate and it just so happens that hate is more popular in Australia and America than in China, this is why the crime rates are higher, at least violent crime.
Violent crime follows violent thoughts, and violent thoughts come from violent emotions, like hate and anger, something Americans have mastered over the years and used to win wars in the past and conquer.
It's simple, if you want people to stop being violent, create a pill which lowers aggression and which prevents people from getting angry. Create a gas which makes people happy, and release it into the workplace, and then maybe violence will go down.
and feudal superstitions and other harmful information that has seriously poisoned people's spirits
Keep in mind that christianity is still seen as superstition in China.
"Religion is the opium of the people".
Mao Tse-Tung.
No wonder they put superstitions (religions?) and poison in the same sentence.
And over on the other side of the Oval office, behind the big desk, he is realizing that he only has a couple of years to go.
Slashdot itself ran the story Private .US Registrations Disallowed by NTIA
You have to censor in capitalism, copyright, intellectual property, patents, are forms of censorship to protect wealth. You don't have to censor as much with communism because wealth is shared. Communism is open source society as compared to Capitalism which is closed source.
Become true?
Dude, it already is. It's one of the countries 1984 was BASED on.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
that Inquier is full of ****.
The elite class will rule over you on matter what system you pick. If you pick capitalism then people who have wealth will change laws to protect their wealth and keep you poor. If you are in communism then the people who control the military will try to use their political influence to get alittle extra out of the system to make it more fair than fair for themselves.
This is a problem of human nature, not systems. The problem is with people who cheat and who are irresponsible, not with capitalism or communism. Both can work if people actually played by the rules, but no one does in either system so both systems are all about positioning, and what family you are born into. The only difference is in capitalism, making others poorer is in your best interest while in communism making everyone equal is in your best interest. Communism works on equality while capitalism works on inequality.
I really feel for the plight of the Chinese people, and I believe that the ability to speak anonymously and read freely would go a long way toward enabling them to improve their government. But is there anything that I, as an internet-savy geek, can do to help?
For example, I would gladly cooperate in a massive DOS attack on the great firewall servers... but it wouldn't work (firstly because they'd just block it, and secondly because taking them down would only isolate China, it wouldn't let info in and out).
I would run a freenet server, except that (please correct me if I'm wrong here) my understanding is that with today's design the authorities can tell that freenet is being used... which is enough to silence people even if the authorities can't tell WHAT it was used for. My understanding is that freenet is being altered to meet this challenge, but that it's not there yet.
So is there anyone out there in China.... no, make that anyone with a FRIEND in China who has suggestions of how I can help?
Back in the old days typewriters each had unique "fingerprints." I think the Solviet Union required all typewriters to be registered.
Same thing, different era.
--
Up until now, only North Koreans needed to register their web sites (*ob/.joke*).
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The Chinese government is only concerned with activities they percieve to be a threat to themselves or their current system. They are not concerned with having their ISPs be good net citizens. I would imagine they are just fine with these services, since they bring money in to China.
Lets also discuss how every capitalist system is corrupted by corporate power and how capitalism created the third world poverty, ghettos, high crime rates, and war.
Capitalism works on oppression just like communism because its always the same elite individuals who control the systems. You can switch to capitalism or communism but if Saddam is the same leader controlling the system its not going to matter which system you choose because you'll be oppressed either way. So either you'll be in a ghetto filled with crime and poverty under capitalism, or you'll be in a sweatshop factory working forever under communism, and either way you'll be in the same position. Oppression has nothing to do with economic systems because oppression is emotionally driven, its based on the personality of those in charge, its never a logical thing.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
This the funniest first post "attempt" ever.
Yes! Communism WORKS! Remember that one month in Paris? There's just a few bugs to get worked out.
The REAL issues are:
1) No one's done it right yet.
2) There's always one bad apple...
3) For some reason people still horde currency and gold.
4) The general populace are uneducated and therefore unable to decide this for themselves.
5) 'The MAN' won't let it just happen, man...
6) Beating people into submission doesn't seem to make them want to share more (funny thing, that).
7) Marx wasn't a big fan of privacy rights.
8) People like stuff. People like better stuff better. What the hell is WRONG with people?!
9) Dictators who organize the 'revolution' should have to relinquish their power at some point in the future.
10) The color 'red' doesn't go well with my black turtleneck...
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
It does exist, it just does not exist on a wide scale. Capitalism cannot exist as pure capitalism either. Only Socialism can exist. When you have pure capitalism, the rich kill the poor and then themselves because they become their own consumers. No one really wants zero sum pure capitalism but no one wants to admit to being socialist. Americans need to just admit to being socialists and start a socialist party, or we can pretend capitalism can actually work and hopefully we survive the next great depression.
...the Bush administration is writing a How-to on this very topic.
It's been called communist, but it's really just a totalitarian dictatorship.
Deleted
Nice...China is a to be feared and watched.
Here's the very condensed version with illustrations with an appropriately "worker's paradise" feel to them.
You have that will. There is no such thing as "universal will". Now you are just applying brainwashing techniques to the ignorant.
It's not about universal will, because greed is not a universal will just like love, hate, empathy, jealousy and egoism are not universal wills. We all have different amounts of certain emotions. Some of us have certain instincts you don't have and you have certain instincts we don't have and so on. Greed is an instinct just like sex drive and love are instincts, and these are not universal. Some people do not feel love, some people have no sex drive, and some people arent greedy. I'd say the greedy individuals are mostly rich in capitalism so we reward them, but in another system we could be rewarding people who are heros, like doctors and firemen, police officers, and the people who ran into the buildings during 911. The fact that the people who ran into the buildings during 911 made less money and are treated worse by our society than the people who worked in the building should tell you that our society values greed above all other instincts.
Does this mean greed is the most popular instinct? No. There are more teachers than stock brokers, there are more police officers than there are CEOs. Most people work for others and arent greedy. If you are greedy and you work for a big corporation, perhaps its time you start your own because you'll never get rich working at Walmart.
When I first scanned over this article, I thought it was about registration of blog/website owners in the USA, and was only slightly surprised. My thoughts were more along the lines of "It's happening earlier than I thought" than "This could never happen in a country that values freedom of speech so much". It just shows how things have been changing recently in regards to anonymity and freedom of speech online, not just in America but worldwide.
One of my co-workers from China told me a story from his youth. Another young man in his neighborhood stole a woman's purse, threatening her with a knife (he did not harm her physically). He was arrested and executed immediately. How is one executed in China? One bullet in the back of the head, and they send your family a bill for the bullet. No joke. Human rights sucks in China. They have little value for life. If they don't value their own citizens, I doubt they'd very much value anyone else's life either.
I am not in China but I help few people running a perl fan website. http://www.perlchina.org/
the chinese goverment announced it few months ago and we went ahead and try to register our website just before the deadline. (me thinks that was may 23rd or something)
however, our website locate not only in one place but in 3 places.(bbs in NanJing, Fund in Beijing, wiki in shanghai) it's so much a hassel to register one by one. although there is an online registration http://www.miibeian.gov.cn/login.jsp
eventually, a friend told us that as long as no one report us to the gov and there is no illegal stuff going on. we are pretty much safe. also, if we runs bbs, it's very hard to get approved. so we gave up for now.
the censorship is a big hassel to everyone. just today, one of our member raisea a question we better get rid of the "bbs" word in our domain bbs.perlchina.org because of censorship.
i was like.. Errrrr... enough of that!!!
You have your American view of reality, you only know your reality, not the reality.
... nothing like that will ever happen here in the civiliced west. Nobody is checking the websites we run.
No way the west would check up on their civilians. Well at least they won't admid to be doing it.
And when they do it is just against terrorism and/or to protect the children. Somebody HAS to think about the children.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
to monitor all these websites/blogs it's China. Just think of all the jobs it's going to create!
This change is primarily due to the release of information on avian influenza from within china. http://www.pandemich5n1.com/
Socialism is the only way to balance the forces. Who is going to pay for teachers, doctors, police officers, and other public servants without socialism?
Socialism offers a place for people who arent greedy to live. People who arent greedy in capitalism either live in ghettos or they leave. The problem is, without these people you have no doctors, you have no workforce, you need people who arent greedy to do all the kinds of jobs which involve empathy and care. When you have a society in which only greedy individuals can survive, it's a very cold competitive environment and I doubt you'd want to live there.
Socialism improves communities. Public education is important, universal healthcare is important, these things protect and improve things for everyone. It's all about where you spend the public money, not how much you spend. Socialism works when its used as an investment and it doesnt work when its used just to reward industries like its used in the USA. The USA has a form of corporate socialism in which airline industries are bailed out but humans are being cut off welfare and having their jobs shipped to India. The government spends more money investing in companies like boeing than they spend investing in schools even when its proven that investing in schools benefits the workforce more in general.
In the U.S. there are MANY people that disagree with what the government is doing- but having a voice is one thing that we pride ourselves on.
You can't beat freedom like that.
And I don't really want to own it. Why do I want to die fighting to defend my air and my water when we can all share our air and water and have unlimited supply?
I wouldnt say owning land is very smart because by owning land you are assuming your society is going to collapse and that you'll be in a situation where land is in limited supply. You set yourself up for future disputes by owning stuff.
In the USA you can own land, fine, but if they made it so the state owns land and we can live on it for free thats even better than paying rent or buying land. It all depends on how its handled.
This is like favoring open source vs closed source.
"ssh". Two-word answer? "SSH, httptunnel.pl".
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
How many patents do you own? How much money does it cost to patent something? How did you get thousands of dollars to hire the lawyers and how exactly will you pay to fight and defend your patents?
Lets assume you don't have a penny to your name, not a dime. Go patent something without any money and you'll prove that anyone can use patents, otherwise patents are for corporations.
Humans have rights, corporations have rights, ANYONE can patent things, you don't have to own a business, and guess what.. if you write an original work, and put Copyright 2005 by dumbass braindamaged, its copyrighted. no corp needed. file it away somewhere and/or send it to the copyright office and poof. done.
I'm sorry, stupidity like yours usually brings me to shake my head that there are people that goddamn dumb in the world, to question why your parents had sex EVER, without anyone stopping them, and move on. but this was so blatantly stupid and completely wrong in every possible way I just HAD to bite and reply.
Copyright? Copyright are not the same as patents. Copyright is about censorship, patents are about control and ownership. This is the difference. It's easy to copyright some text and its impossible to defend a copyright, a patent on the other hand can be just about anything. Amazon has the one click patent. How many patents do you own and why do we need patents at all? Why do we need copyright? Defend your opinions with your words.
I don't think corporations and workers are treated equally, since you do, I'm guessing you own patents, copyright, and that you use these things to maintain your wealth while you sit around not creating or making anything. If this is the case then you are a real human, otherwise if you just work for a company and this company claims the rights to everything you create, you arent as human as the corporation you work for because they own all your ideas.
The only way to be Human is to be wealthy. If you are poor then you'll be treated as less than human, you'll live in some ghetto, and you'll work at Walmart, you most likely will never own any patents and if you own a copyright, unless its worth millions of dollars, you'll still be poor in some ghetto somewhere. Do you believe this is fair?
Thats somewhat unfair. The Hegelian model adopted by Marx is quite clear, before you become a socialist state you must first be a mature capitalist state. Its yet to be tried therefore. Both Mao and Trotsky amongst others were well aware of this (thats what the five year plans were about, hothousing development up to where they should have been before hand). However you wanted to know who was conforming to the spirit of Marxism, well, the USA is doing excellently. Would you disagree? Everything he said about the nature of capital itself appears to be true and increasingly wealth is at some pace becoming increasingly unequal in its distribution within society (in 1997, the top 1% held 84% of all wealth in the USA and 47% of total income; note from this the distinctive charater of capital...what do you imagine the numbers are today and what will they be ten years from now?).
Also, who said anything about government? Why throw off the shackles of the capitalist class only to give away your labour to an unaccountable government? I think you are confusing communism with Leninism. Most libertarians are basically communists who don't understand what the word means as far as I can tell.
It must be said I don't blame people who make that mistake. I did a quick google search and here are some contradictory highlights:
In its ideal form, social classes cease to exist, there is no coercive governmental structures, and everyone lives in abundance without supervision from a ruling class. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels popularized this theory in their 1848 Communist Manifesto.
yet...
A system of government in which a single, totalitarian, party holds power. It is characterized by state control of the economy, and restriction on personal freedoms. It was first proposed by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in The Communist Manifesto.
but then again...
An economic system in which the people control the means of production (capital and land) directly, without intervention of a government or state.
Have a look yourself here.
All I'll add by way of commentary that its pretty clear when you visit the various sites whose actually cracked the cover on Das Capital and who is channeling Joe McCarthy. Universities tend to get it correct. Worryingly the middle entry came from an American grade school's webpage.
I'm by no means a communist or a socialist myself but I do think people should investigate their terms of reference before talking about these topics. It appears in the US that people have been left deliberately clueless.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
Having been to shanghai and seeing the freely available sex on maoming and julu lu, I highly doubt the internet is the source of their problems...:)
It is amazing how powerful group-think can be. Last year, when Farenheit 9/11 was out in the video store, I heard two guys talking in line waiting for checkout. One asked the other if he had seen it, and the other said he wouldn't watch anything from that commie.
Commie? What about Michael Moore is communist? It doesn't make any sense. Do people even have a clue what Communism is? And why the fear of it? I have heard others use the word "commie" to refer to something as un-American. I am 35, but I still don't understand it. Why do we, as Americans, hate Communists again? Because our government told us to? I suppose "terrorist" is the new "commie".
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Americans can censor to protect wealth, why can't China do the same thing?
China has the right to censor and imprison dissenters because it's the Chinese way?"
If an American smokes pot and goes to prison, or if an American during the civil rights movement was beat up or killed how is this any different than the Chinese doing it to their people?
By your thinking, Hitler's gas ovens were just the German peoples' way of doing things so we had no right to interfere.
You don't get it, America has death camps too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2979076.stm
War is wrong, period. Hitler was a criminal because he had people killed, period. The death penalty is wrong, period. I don't agree with any death penalty ever no matter who does it, however going to war did not solve or end world war 2. You think that by just going to war and bombing people that Hitlers followers were defeated? All that happened is they moved, so now there are still nazis who still believe what Hitler did. You arent proving your point by even bringing Hitler and nazi germany up.
. Cambodia's reeducation camps were just an Asian way of solving an overpopulation problem so what right did us Caucasian people have to complain? You useless pile of human garbage. You make me ashamed to be an American.
Why complain about China? America supports the death penalty and you are proud of it. Look, I don't support the dealth penalty ever, but the fact that my country supports it leads me to not focus so much on what China is doing. China is not the current world super power. China is not in a position to take over the world and force their way of life down our throats, so why do I care about solving China's death penalty problems when in the USA the death penalty still exists? We have millions of prisoners in the USA and you want to discuss human rights with China?
We have over 2 million prisoners, a lot of them are political prisoners who smoked marijuana or who commited some lightweight non violent offense. Why should we be focused on China?
Lots of filtering programs will probably knee-jerk block the entire .xxx domain, including any worthwhile sites in it. Even if there's no filtering program involved, people will probably feel very uncomfortable visiting a .xxx site if other people might notice, even if it's perfectly appropriate and they would have no such problem under a .com or .org.
I just find it amusing that a ministry of a communist government is concerned about the poisoning of the people's spirits.
Yeah, right. And they will all have their tongue cut and safely stored in a digitally sealed box that can only be opened with CCP's approval online.
We do have camps for terrorists. We do have prisons. We do have ghettos. If you practice the wrong religion in the USA you get raided, it happened in Waco Texas. If you are muslin you could be put into a camp, there are all sorts of situations which could be happening in this country that none of us could be aware of simply because our laws allow it to be possible.
Freedom of speech? Americans never had freedom of speech so to expect China to have freedom of speech is a joke. Right now we are outlawing filesharing while telling the Chinese to open up their internets.
Just think of all the jobs created by bombing Iraq.
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If China is less free, how exactly?
Anyone can go to jail anywhere, theres terrorists in every country, and political prisoners in every country. The USA has more prisoners than China. Now, I know China may kill its terrorists right on the spot and I don't agree with this, but America while perhaps it might be slighly less harsh in its sentencing, appears to be just as censored.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political,
economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State
to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by
extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
- Joseph Goebbels
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Is a bullet in this context stronger or weaker than a /.-ing?
Some humans are collectivsts, some humans are capitalists. When you say that one system fits "human" nature what you really mean to say is that you are a capitalist and that capitalism fits your nature. If this is what you mean to say, this is fine because its true, but do not try to claim that everyone in the capitalist system is in a system best suited for their nature. A public servant, a teacher, a fireman, any of these hero types, capitalism goes against their nature. These people protect and educated, these are community oriented jobs which best suit people who have a community or family oriented nature. Some of us value family more than we value money and for people who value the human family moreso than money, making money isnt as important as helping to improve your community.
As a famous entomologist once said, "communism is a wonderful theory, applied to the wrong species."
A very ignorant quote. Who gives freud the right the define the entire human species? Human nature has variation, there are greedy humans who care about themselves, and there are humans who want to help others, and based on their priorities and instincts decides their nature. Just to make you aware, someone who runs into a burning building to save your life isnt doing it for the money. Whoever educated you in school most likely isnt doing that job for the money. By your definition these people arent human because humans have to all be greedy.
The question is: do you? Soviet (council)
I'm guessing this will include North American and European sites that chose to register and host a domain name in China, such as www.inkman.cn. It doesn't look like the content is provided by, or, targeted to anyone outside of North America.
.cn domains?
So what's the consequence for Americans that own
I don't know if China will arrest people for just talking bad about China. If you know people who are in China or from China to verify it then it would at least give some evidence otherwise I don't really take what Americans say about China seriously. You'd have to be from China.
I'm not anti US, I'm from the US, I'm just not pro US. I don't hate America, I love America as much as America loves me.
At the same time, I don't hate China, people I know in China arent complaining about China as much as Americans are complaining about China, so it might be that people are afraid to talk about it or it might just be that Americans are complaining like they always do. Americans complain about every country BUT America. I don't feel like China, Iraq or any of these other countries are our responsibility. There are a billion people in China who can free themselves when they are ready. In the USA did Europe or China or any of these countries help free the slaves? Of course not. Americans had to fight for every freedom they have, slaves, immigrants, workers, and all of our ancestors on every level faught for freedom. Why should we fight for China's freedom instead of our own? Whats in it for us? Why should I be more worried about how free China is when I'm living in America? Is China going to open the doors so Americans can move to China to work and live? Why worry about China from American soil?
China has its problems, America has its problems, when America was in its infant stage no country helped, no country ever helps to solve Americas problems. America can have slavery and how many other countries condemned it? When women couldnt vote and minorities werent allowed to live as equals no country said anything, and this stuff lasted all the way till the 1980s. So now China is in the 1980s or 1970s and we are supposed to focus on helping China into 2000 instead of helping our own country?
China has problems, I can admit that, but until the USA solves its own human rights issues, China just isnt on my list of concerns. When the USA finally starts to let women and minorities live as equals, and when America fixes up its ghettos and takes care of its poor, young, old, sick, etc then I'll focus on making China like America. Right now America should be focused on being a role model before trying to lecture China, and this goes to all the people who complain about China, if you believe in human rights then treat your neighbors in America like humans. Start by solving the racism and sexism, both problems of 2005 instead of focusing on China's issues.
When we have a female president, or a black president, then we can throw the human rights issues in Chinas face, but until this time we look like the Ex-KKK / Ex-Nazi person telling street thugs how to live. You cannot tell people how to live, you have to show them. If the USA believes in human rights, honestly and truly, then we should live by our words and let the Chinese people see how much better America is and change China on their own.
I don't know if China will arrest people for just talking bad about China. If you know people who are in China or from China to verify it then it would at least give some evidence otherwise I don't really take what Americans say about China seriously. You'd have to be from China.
I'm not anti US, I'm from the US, I'm just not pro US. I don't hate America, I love America as much as America loves me.
At the same time, I don't hate China, people I know in China arent complaining about China as much as Americans are complaining about China, so it might be that people are afraid to talk about it or it might just be that Americans are complaining like they always do. Americans complain about every country BUT America. I don't feel like China, Iraq or any of these other countries are our responsibility. There are a billion people in China who can free themselves when they are ready. In the USA did Europe or China or any of these countries help free the slaves? Of course not. Americans had to fight for every freedom they have, slaves, immigrants, workers, and all of our ancestors on every level faught for freedom. Why should we fight for China's freedom instead of our own? Whats in it for us? Why should I be more worried about how free China is when I'm living in America? Is China going to open the doors so Americans can move to China to work and live? Why worry about China from American soil?
China has its problems, America has its problems, when America was in its infant stage no country helped, no country ever helps to solve Americas problems. America can have slavery and how many other countries condemned it? When women couldnt vote and minorities werent allowed to live as equals no country said anything, and this stuff lasted all the way till the 1980s. So now China is in the 1980s or 1970s and we are supposed to focus on helping China into 2000 instead of helping our own country?
China has problems, I can admit that, but until the USA solves its own human rights issues, China just isnt on my list of concerns. When the USA finally starts to let women and minorities live as equals, and when America fixes up its ghettos and takes care of its poor, young, old, sick, etc then I'll focus on making China like America. Right now America should be focused on being a role model before trying to lecture China, and this goes to all the people who complain about China, if you believe in human rights then treat your neighbors in America like humans. Start by solving the racism and sexism, both problems of 2005 instead of focusing on China's issues.
When we have a female president, or a black president, then we can throw the human rights issues in Chinas face, but until this time we look like the Ex-KKK / Ex-Nazi person telling street thugs how to live. You cannot tell people how to live, you have to show them. If the USA believes in human rights, honestly and truly, then we should live by our words and let the Chinese people see how much better America is and change China on their own.
I don't think its our job to solve the worlds political ills, at least not at the price of letting our own problems grow out of control.
It is the will of Nature to improve upon itself... PERIOD. That's how evolution works - only the strongest, the best survive. When you boil everything down, our basic instincts are still alive and well.
What the idiots who committed the attrocities tell me is that they prefer to be PREDATORS rather then prey. Fine, but then they also suffer the consequences of that 'lifestyle'. Are you saying that we should all ram planes into buildings to justify a society we don't like? Shit, there wouldn't be anything left!
Those who don't fit in, don't continue on and they are quickly bred out of the population. If you don't mate, you don't breed. IF you are poor, then you poorly provide for your family, should you have one. That is NO different than a family of crocs dying in a dried out riverbed. Shit happens, death is a part of life and all that.
As Danny Elfman from Oingo Boingo once sang in the song 'Capitalism':
There's nothing wrong with the capitalism
If you ask me I will say it's just fine
There's nothing wrong with wanting to live nice
I'm so tired of hearing you whine...
There's nothing wrong with making some profit
There's nothing wrong with the free enterprise
Don't try to make me feel guilty
I'm so tired of hearing you whine about
The Revolution and Bringing Down the Rich
When was the last time you dug a ditch, baby?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
This is exactly why China isn't (yet) much of a long term economic threat to the US. So long as they keep these type outmoded policies and attitudes their economic growth will eventually run into them and bring the expansion to a halt.
It happened to Japan when a recession tested their political system and made it fail. The main party split into many factions and a long succession of lame duck Prime Ministers took over. Fifteen years later Japan is still nowhere to be found in the "economic threat" radar screen. (For those of you who are too young to remember this, rent and watch "Back to the Future III" to get an idea of the perspective on Japan at the time.)
Do you honestly belive that our government really cares about the constitution any more?
They dont.
Oh, and your local library.. the ones that want now to track ( and retain records on ) what you lookup in their listings? Dont trust them either.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The next step planned by the Chinese government is to send operators of unregistered websites to concentration camps. Now that the government requires website registration in true communistic spirit this will be an easy task for them.
I really feel pity for China. The chinese government has a total lack of legitimacy. What gives these guys the right to govern? The wonderful promises of the so called communist paradise was just a way to entice the people to support an authoritarian government which brought one of the greatest disasters upon China in his history. It is even sader to know that many people really believed on that dream. Many were killed and the majority betrayed. Only those on the nomenclature reaped the benefits at the cost of an inmense sufering of their very own countrymen. Could you imagine what China could be today if it has started to develop 40, 60 or 70 years ago? I you are amazed at the development of Japan, South Korea or Taiwan, just imagine what could China achieve with an efficient system of government with an efficient economy. Could you imagine how many doctors, mathematicians, engineers could had arised from the mass of people who lost their lives in that disaster. And lost your live does not necessarily means to physically die! Was an Einstein there, or a Newton or an Arkimedes or an Euklides? Was there ordinary people who only wanted to live their lieve with some hope? How many lives were lost? What a terrible waste. Once china was a superpower so far above other nations on earth that it was meaningless to make any comparison. With a system of government far better than those in Europe at the time. And from the technological point of view...We spaniards discovered ( stumble with) America using ships that trying to compare them against the chinese ships of time would be like comparing a raft with an ocean liner. If you think that they are on the good path now think twice. There no rule of the law, law as we understand it. The system is prone to corruption, ineficiencies and inmense waste of resources. Economic, natural or personal (I mean people lives) resources. No check and balances system to correct the wrong decisions made by the government or in the economy. No accountability to take out of power those that made the wrong decisions. The ordinary citizen is defenseles against the ones in power. The risk of an implosion is very real. If the situation arises the capital invested on China could get out of the country equally fast or faster as it dit get in making thins worse. China is not the only country with a big an well educated population in the area. Just look a little bit to the south and to west. The biggest democracy of the world is there. A country with a culture and population that matchs China's. No, I would not put today all my investment eggs for asia in China. Politically the society is under a terrible presure. Just look at the demostrations in China against Japan. These demostrations were allowed by the government for its own political purposes but in my opinion its intensity revealed an intense frustation within the society . These demonstrations were an escape valve for many, they could at last demostrate for something and have an impact on the media or been seen at all in the media. It didn't matter the objective of the demostration. They could demostrate! There is a volcano under these society and it might explode if the wrong circumstances arise: a economic or political crisis could trigger it. I think the guys in the government got really scared although they allowed or induced this protest in the beginning and expected to benefit from it. Now they should be aware of the volcano under their own very feet. With respect to technological advance. In order to be on the forefront of technology you need free exchanges of ideas. Of any ideas! Rememeber when in Europa the great doctors of the church considered that the earth was the center of the universe? Any other ideas was prosecuted because it did not suit the guys in power. It could put their power structures in questions. We had our dark age in Europe. It was long and dark. It took time and effort to get out of it. Some shadows do still linger here though If they gag their own people they may have the best students and universities on earth,
Life is spent fighting gravity - always has been. We also have entropy to contend with - we don't live forever. These are facts of life. If your heart bled for every ant you've crushed underfoot you'd have bled yourself dry years ago.
I never said not to help someone in need - I have and do - however, there are reasonable limits to this assistance. For instance, I resist giving help to:
- Those who can support themselves and don't.
- Those who take from my one hand and smack the other (I'm talking about respect).
- Those DON'T WANT IT (they DO exist).
You mention Cain as if I am out murdering all the 'Abels' of the world. That's a terrible analogy - I'm not killing anyone. That said, I will defend my own life, the lives of my family, and my freedom if it is threatened and I have something to say about it. I will not lower my standard of living to those who could care less about improving theirs or more importantly, their children's.
And yet somehow, that's what Communism stands for - Socialism isn't much better. It's anti-evolutionary - life in reverse, a living death. That 'Universal Will' Vonnegut talks about is very real. It's about becoming something more than you are - not just monetarily either. You see it in nature all the time. I know one thing. It's certainly not about sitting on your ass waiting for that gov't check or giving able-bodied people the right to do so.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Communist my arse. China is a totalitarian dystopia, and a disgusting affront to free speech everywhere. Don't let this happen in the USA.
...that evolution itself should stop because it hurts your feelings? Or are you denying it because you refuse to believe basic concepts like natural selection? If you can't accept those simple and obvious scientific facts there's no use arguing.
And what the hell does 'stop the ignorance' mean anyway? Ignorance is stopped through education - you make a one sentence reply and expect that to 'stop the ignorance'? Maybe you should try a candlelight vigil next...
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
..before the US Government requires the same of US website operators the way things are going and as we lose more and more liberties due to the "war on terror" (which I won't waste time talking about here).
ok first off, i submitted this story over a month ago when i received my first warning to start registering all the domains i host, but no, chose to reject it didn't you! now thats out of the way, china started this over 2 months ago giving warning to everyone that had servers in china, i choose to ignore it till a month ago when i was told that my equipment could be conviscated and my business shutdown, so i first contacted all of my clients to ask if they would hand out their personal information, for corporates i just made them fill in the form, but the rest i just registered them under my company name. the filtering in china is now running on outgoing information (and some incoming for unapporved sites) its like they are making a whitelist of sites not to monitor if they are checked, since everyone knows there equipment is shit slow causing the internet to be shit slow (this changed recently when they changed to this new filtering method). the filtering locks us out of many sites or certain parts of sites, ie: looking up my own details in slashdot causes a 'server not found', also downloading the latest release of Perl fails on 72%, search engines are blocked and unblocked during the day, so this leads me to believe that they 'punish' a connection for a period of time if they do or go to places they arn't supposed to. also download speeds have picked up from 4kbs up to almost near full speed, but upload speeds are now stuck at ~4kbs. so if you dont register with the gov then in a month they will be starting to put the lists to use that arent registered. there are other ways, tor, encrypted VPNS, proxies, i'm going to also be trying tunneled ipv6 as china hasn't rolled out ipv6 services yet, but tunnel brokers will still serve you and are outside of china. i wonder if this will post!
Can anyone point out an actual registrartion order?
Who is supposed to register?
Where should they register?
What should they register?
Until now I've seen to little hard facts in the discussion....
Got yourself an edumacation, uh?
So you work with Mac's, I suppose?
And we should be afraid of anyone who walks down the street. After all, they've probably got a gun...
Dunno about you, but I'd feel much safer. After all, if somebody tries to rob me, anybody else around could just shoot the guy.
The notion that nobody having access to guns will prevent crime is misguided in the extreme. Guns exist. No amount of legislation will change that simple fact. The utter simplicity of "criminals don't obey the law" is completely lost on some people.
Columbine wouldn't have been stopped by deterrants. It would have been stopped by not having access to guns.
Bullshit. You could just as easily argue that it would have been stopped by somebody, like a teacher for example, seeing those fools wandering the halls with weapons and then blowing their heads off before they went and did any actual destruction. Lacking guns, they could have simply made explosives and blown up a couple classrooms or something equally tragic.
Really, the answer is that it would have been stopped by somebody paying attention to those kids and noticing that they had been driven insane before they went and harmed anybody.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
In the States and most other capitalist countries wealth determines who should have access to the limited resources.A great paradox is that in capitalism access to unlimited resources such as copyright material is alsow restrained. In a true Democracy the people would decide... The only essential difference beetwen Capitalism and Communism is that capitalism is far more effective as a management system.The "freedom of speach" is a luxurie that moderm democracies have because they are not realy threatened. I cant realy see a moral superiorety of a Corporate democracy over a Communist dictatorship...
Spoken like a person that truly (purposely?) misunderstands Mormonism.