Perhaps you can supply a solid argument why it is both ethical for a government to spy on other countries yet unethical to spy on itself, but using your own argument, wouldn't the U.S. government be stupid not to spy on its own citizens when they spy on it?
Because there are US constitutional protections for the citizens against this type activity by the govt.
There is also a Constitutional mandate for the Fed govt to defend this nation, and foreign intelligence gathering is a part of that.
Your line of thinking is that those who are born into a higher position surely deserve it.
I never said that, nor did I hint at that.
Trying to pretend that corporatism/inheritance isn't just feudalism by another name is sticking your head in the sand.
So, you're saying it is your role, or maybe the govt's role, to judge who has too much, and cannot give it to their young, but must instead, give up their wealth to the masses because they "won" just a little too much?
But Equal Opportunity = everyone starts the race at the same point.
No, that's not what it means at all.
It means Goal A is out there, for anyone to achieve.
The 'contest' is open to all, and no one will stop you from getting Goal A.
However, due to circumstances, person X who's parents valued education, pushed young X hard to go to school and learn physics. Part of the goal to attain Goal A is to be able to be functional in physics.
Person Y, was born in a home that does not value education, and person Y gets a late start.
However, as person Y gets older, they see they want goal A.
They start to work towards that, perhaps giving up on getting married early, and working 2x jobs so they can make up for lost education, but they learn and work harder to get to learn physics, and then, they too can attain Goal A.
Sure, person X has been at Goal A for years, but later, Person Y makes it there too..and then, they can work together.
Some just have to work a bit harder, but the goals are open to all. That is equal opportunity.
\
I'm not saying that everyone can't get to what they want, but some have to work harder than others, and some may fail. Hence, Equal Opportunity != Equal Outcomes.
The opportunities are there for all, but not everyone will make them, and it isn't the govts role to ensure they make it, or subsidize them if they don't make it.
We nearly hanged Nixon (and Ford for pardoning him) for Watergate. We have bigger scandals than Watergate happening today, scandals involving the usurption of our civil liberties by our own government, but no one's doing anything about it except complain.
Well, you see...I saw it on the new the other day, that these are just phony scandals, that are detracting from the important issues of the day...???
And well, if you question that, they you sir must be a racist. And our great US news agencies certainly are NOT racist and hence, tow the line on this story (and other similar ones).
And when that Randian Sociopathy applies to you you'll just bow down and accept your fate, right? Funny how the people advocating for 'creative destruction' arrogantly believe it will never apply to their own self-centered selves.
Nope, I don't expect anyone really to help me then, as that no one has been there to help me in the past.
Why should it?
I'm not advocating a basic safety net, for the truly infirmed and elderly, people that cannot take care of themselves.
But no, anyone that is able bodied....you are on your own and out for yourself for the most part.
The Affordable Care Act, if it does end up being an unaffordable quagmire, is only in that state because it was done while trying to not hurt the for-profit medical insurance industry. We would have been better off with the single payer system kind of like the ones successfully used in every other functional first world country. The way we run our country is ludicrous. Everyone knows the rules, everyone agrees to fair play, then everyone cheats a little so no one actually gets ahead. That is until someone cheats a lot, and gets ahead... then everyone cheats a lot... and back to square one. We like to pretend that getting nickled and dimed is somehow more honorable than just paying the full value for the things which we need. This is only made possible when we fail to see the non-financial and practical value of our free time.
Actually, we'd have been better if we could go back to what medical care was more when I was a child.
There was less govt. intrusion, before the HMO's and middlemen bean counters came onto the scene.
Where the health relationship was more between the Dr. and the patient. Where you had more independent physicians hanging out their shingle so to speak.
It was better back then, when medical insurance was called "major medical" and it was ONLY to be used for catastrophic needs (heart attack, car wreck, etc)....and routine care was saved for like any other daily life expense.
Back in this system, Dr.s competed with each other, prices for routine care were not huge and were affordable...AND..you didn't have Dr.s having to do CYA tests that were unnecessary for anything but covering your ass against a potential frivolous lawsuit.
Medicine got out of hand when the HMO's started and more govt. intrusion began.
Frankly, I think the salvation of all of this, may be the start we're seeing of Medical Systems, where you join to a group of physicians in many fields in a group and pay annually for your care.
I'll likely try to find a good one and go that way in lieu of any obamacare type thing I might be forced into some day.
No one in America will tell you to your face that they believe in this idea but they hint at it on nearly every politically driven radio talk show. This new idea seems to be assumed to be correct in the two parties. This idea is morally wrong, as far as a reasonable Christian would say, and is very destructive in a country where we once had nearly 60-70% of the population be able to live modestly and have "good jobs". I see no reason why that can't be done now, not via some complex communistic redistribution of wealth plan but solely by recognizing that we all must give of our money, time, and talent to the betterment of this country. Those that have little money shouldn't be asked to pay only with money when they can give time and talent nor should we ask those that have the financial resources to pay only with time and talent.
From what I've noticed...this change and explosion of the gap between the rich and poor, seems to have coincided with the greater and greater expansion of the Federal Govt and its continued invasion into all aspects of our life.
Because not all men are created equal. Modern society OUGHT to ensure everyone starts the race at the same point
Why?
What you suggest would necessarily involve someone or something (the govt presumable) to constantly take from those more successful and give to those less successful, less talented and less motivated.
Otherwise, unless everyone lives at the same level, has the same level of eductation...how do you ensure equal footing starting life out?
If you pander to the lowest common denominator, well...you get to keep the world at a low, mediocre level. If you hold back those that are motivated to succeed and gather wealth, prestige, etc....and give it to those that don't have it, at some point, don't you just take away all incentive for anyone to succeed....and hence, no breadwinners to take from to give to the less blessed?
Its the way the world works.
Some people are born to families that value education more and push their kids that way....some born to people with more means...some are just born with better genes for doing something (for instance, I'll never make it in the NBA)....
It is just life and nature...trying to pretend it is an utopia, and everyone should have the same things is just not reasonable thinking.
I agree, everyone should have the same opportunity, no one should be discriminated against by the govt....they should be free to do as they wish to try to do what they can (legally) to better their lives and their families' lives. But there is no way to ensure a level playfield to start at for all...some will have to work harder than others, that's just the way life is.
Correct. Man made money and the concept of working for a living. It has nothing to do with nature. We created the problem and we will have to fix the problem (yep, having ultra rich and very poor people is a huge problem!) But then again, the concept that the rich is able to keep the poor down is really an evil concept, and that is part of nature, because we are nasty creatures that like to bully each other.
Man, this thought process just elludes me.
You and others seem to have this picture in your head, of Rich Uncle Moneybags, with mustache and top hat, being super wealthy and going out of his way to keep the poor man down...
I dunno where you get this. Most people I know that are rich or at least wealthy, do *NOT* have the time to take out of their busy day (often working and thinking of ways to make their money and grow their wealth) to get out there and put a jackboot on the throat of some poor person.
I get the same feeling when I hear some blacks out there complaining about the "white man keepin' us down". Really? I've never seen a white person, especially one who was going quite well for himself, even have the time to take off to put down some black guy...not even one of them.
Get over it. No one in the world really cares at ALL about you, certainly they don't care enough to go out of their way to put you down or keep you down.
Generally, the people at the top are waaaay too busy trying to be successful. The time and effort others use to clamor that they are being "kept down", is used by the successful to become....well, successful.
You're right. How dare anyone question the God-given right of greedy, amoral pigs to exploit and dominate their fellow humans!
Heads up...life has always been a contest, for each creature to struggle and fight with others to survive...in our case, to also live more comfortably and provide for our families, even if that means beating someone else out of things to do so.
Not everyone is born equal in stature or ability. Not everyone is born on the same equal footing to start life out upon.
But, that's nature...always has been, always will be.
That's great but if everyone ate that way, even in less quantity there is just no way to do it. There just isn't enough space and resources to do it the correct natural way while still feeding the world population.
Err...I grew up in the era before the mass production of beef and other animal products like we have now, and no one was starving in the US then....?
And most of our food grown here, especially animal product do NOT go to starving countries...they get wheat and stuff that is easier to keep and transport.
So, no, we could go back to the days of all animals being more naturallly fed and treated (ie no hormones and overuse of antibiotics) and not have a shortage of meat in the US. And hey, even if the supply were a bit lower, that might be a good thing, and have people eat MORE of the plentiful growing plant based foods that are so good for them nutritionally...?
Make the keys so that there are sheaths around them, which can bend away on a spring when you need to use the key, or the key can come out of the end of the sheath. Or some other way to hide the tooth pattern when the key isn't being used.
Slashdot Mirror
I dunno, if they include a couple of pics of good looking, fit, naked chicks in it, maybe brandishing light sabers....it will sell pretty well, no?
Amen to that brother...amen to that!!
Because there are US constitutional protections for the citizens against this type activity by the govt.
There is also a Constitutional mandate for the Fed govt to defend this nation, and foreign intelligence gathering is a part of that.
Easy-peasy.
I kinda like my society. I don't really care about yours, whatever country that is....
I never said that, nor did I hint at that.
Trying to pretend that corporatism/inheritance isn't just feudalism by another name is sticking your head in the sand.
So, you're saying it is your role, or maybe the govt's role, to judge who has too much, and cannot give it to their young, but must instead, give up their wealth to the masses because they "won" just a little too much?
No, that's not what it means at all.
It means Goal A is out there, for anyone to achieve.
The 'contest' is open to all, and no one will stop you from getting Goal A.
However, due to circumstances, person X who's parents valued education, pushed young X hard to go to school and learn physics. Part of the goal to attain Goal A is to be able to be functional in physics.
Person Y, was born in a home that does not value education, and person Y gets a late start.
However, as person Y gets older, they see they want goal A.
They start to work towards that, perhaps giving up on getting married early, and working 2x jobs so they can make up for lost education, but they learn and work harder to get to learn physics, and then, they too can attain Goal A.
Sure, person X has been at Goal A for years, but later, Person Y makes it there too..and then, they can work together.
Some just have to work a bit harder, but the goals are open to all. That is equal opportunity.
\ I'm not saying that everyone can't get to what they want, but some have to work harder than others, and some may fail. Hence, Equal Opportunity != Equal Outcomes.
The opportunities are there for all, but not everyone will make them, and it isn't the govts role to ensure they make it, or subsidize them if they don't make it.
I'd never heard of this...so, a girl band in Russia gets arrested and jailed?
Geez...why oh why couldn't this have happened to the Spice Girls, and saved the world from them????
Well, you see...I saw it on the new the other day, that these are just phony scandals, that are detracting from the important issues of the day...???
And well, if you question that, they you sir must be a racist. And our great US news agencies certainly are NOT racist and hence, tow the line on this story (and other similar ones).
I have no problem with our country, the US, spying on other countries, hell, I expect it to.
The problem is...the Fed Govt. wiping its ass with the Constitution and spying on its own citizenry.
Yes, every country spies on other countries...we'd be stupid not to too.
Nope, I don't expect anyone really to help me then, as that no one has been there to help me in the past.
Why should it?
I'm not advocating a basic safety net, for the truly infirmed and elderly, people that cannot take care of themselves.
But no, anyone that is able bodied....you are on your own and out for yourself for the most part.
Actually, we'd have been better if we could go back to what medical care was more when I was a child.
There was less govt. intrusion, before the HMO's and middlemen bean counters came onto the scene.
Where the health relationship was more between the Dr. and the patient. Where you had more independent physicians hanging out their shingle so to speak.
It was better back then, when medical insurance was called "major medical" and it was ONLY to be used for catastrophic needs (heart attack, car wreck, etc)....and routine care was saved for like any other daily life expense.
Back in this system, Dr.s competed with each other, prices for routine care were not huge and were affordable...AND..you didn't have Dr.s having to do CYA tests that were unnecessary for anything but covering your ass against a potential frivolous lawsuit.
Medicine got out of hand when the HMO's started and more govt. intrusion began.
Frankly, I think the salvation of all of this, may be the start we're seeing of Medical Systems, where you join to a group of physicians in many fields in a group and pay annually for your care.
I'll likely try to find a good one and go that way in lieu of any obamacare type thing I might be forced into some day.
Ok..you're really stretching here to try to prove a point...
From what I've noticed...this change and explosion of the gap between the rich and poor, seems to have coincided with the greater and greater expansion of the Federal Govt and its continued invasion into all aspects of our life.
Why?
What you suggest would necessarily involve someone or something (the govt presumable) to constantly take from those more successful and give to those less successful, less talented and less motivated.
Otherwise, unless everyone lives at the same level, has the same level of eductation...how do you ensure equal footing starting life out?
If you pander to the lowest common denominator, well...you get to keep the world at a low, mediocre level. If you hold back those that are motivated to succeed and gather wealth, prestige, etc....and give it to those that don't have it, at some point, don't you just take away all incentive for anyone to succeed....and hence, no breadwinners to take from to give to the less blessed?
Its the way the world works.
Some people are born to families that value education more and push their kids that way....some born to people with more means...some are just born with better genes for doing something (for instance, I'll never make it in the NBA)....
It is just life and nature...trying to pretend it is an utopia, and everyone should have the same things is just not reasonable thinking.
I agree, everyone should have the same opportunity, no one should be discriminated against by the govt....they should be free to do as they wish to try to do what they can (legally) to better their lives and their families' lives. But there is no way to ensure a level playfield to start at for all...some will have to work harder than others, that's just the way life is.
Equal opportunity != Equal Outcomes
Man, this thought process just elludes me.
You and others seem to have this picture in your head, of Rich Uncle Moneybags, with mustache and top hat, being super wealthy and going out of his way to keep the poor man down...
I dunno where you get this. Most people I know that are rich or at least wealthy, do *NOT* have the time to take out of their busy day (often working and thinking of ways to make their money and grow their wealth) to get out there and put a jackboot on the throat of some poor person.
I get the same feeling when I hear some blacks out there complaining about the "white man keepin' us down". Really? I've never seen a white person, especially one who was going quite well for himself, even have the time to take off to put down some black guy...not even one of them.
Get over it. No one in the world really cares at ALL about you, certainly they don't care enough to go out of their way to put you down or keep you down.
Generally, the people at the top are waaaay too busy trying to be successful. The time and effort others use to clamor that they are being "kept down", is used by the successful to become....well, successful.
Heads up...life has always been a contest, for each creature to struggle and fight with others to survive...in our case, to also live more comfortably and provide for our families, even if that means beating someone else out of things to do so.
Not everyone is born equal in stature or ability. Not everyone is born on the same equal footing to start life out upon.
But, that's nature...always has been, always will be.
I just ususally differentiate my Indians with prefacing with "Dot" or "Feather" Indian.
I think the time to be concerned is, if Japan starts mass producing new kamikaze planes.....
I'm all for the humane and painless killing of my food animals. No, they should not suffer, a quick clean kill should always be the goal.
Err...I grew up in the era before the mass production of beef and other animal products like we have now, and no one was starving in the US then....?
And most of our food grown here, especially animal product do NOT go to starving countries...they get wheat and stuff that is easier to keep and transport.
So, no, we could go back to the days of all animals being more naturallly fed and treated (ie no hormones and overuse of antibiotics) and not have a shortage of meat in the US. And hey, even if the supply were a bit lower, that might be a good thing, and have people eat MORE of the plentiful growing plant based foods that are so good for them nutritionally...?
A foreskin for keys...?
Sorry, I fail to see where morality enters into this argument at all...?
Humans are just another variety of animal on this planet, like the rest of them, we eat, sleep, shit, fuck and make new little copies of ourselves.
We just happen to be on the top of the food chain, and have a lot of choices on what to eat, picking from those lower than us on the food chain.
There's nothing morally wrong with eating something lower than yourself on the food chain, that's they way nature made all of us animals.
Somewhere along the line....people have gotten so abstracted from their food, they seem to forget this.
Because if you were to try to lay hands on them, they'd immediately shoot you.