I conceed that if all sectors of our economy remained as they are today and outsourcing continued, the end result would be as you describe. The American standard of living would likely decrease much more than the Indian standard of living would increase, simply because they have four times as many people as the US. However...
Unless somebody invents a really kick-ass widget which nobody can produce off-shore, the American dream is in for a rude awakening.
Someone will invent the next widget, or an effective hydrogen fuel cell, or a distributed OS, or a million other things that will create jobs for Americans. The idea that the state of industry will remain static is a little short-sighted. Our economy is so effective because we invent things, or we make things that other people invented better. We are not an economy that takes the Marxist view that labor is the only real asset available to humanity. We prize entrepreneurial vision.
You bring up the scarce resource of oil. Good example. When American researchers announce they have a viable hydrogen-based solution for powering communities, American corporations will suddenly have a product millions of people will want. An industry will be created, along with thousands of jobs. Will some of them be outsourced? Eventually, yes. But other industries will pop up to replace it. It's happened before. It will happen again.
The threat of duty free imports will make CEOs rethink their offshoring strategies.
This is an angle I hadn't considered before. I love it, and completely agree. All trade barriers on goods, services, capital, labor, etc. should be removed. This will increase real wealth in the US by making imported goods cheaper. This frees up capital for investment, which in turn creates jobs.
I am sorry you are about to loose your job, but you sound like the type that will be able to make some opportunities for yourself.
You should quote sources for your numbers. Spewing statistical diarrhea is not helpful. If you have an argument, please do your best to back it up with a source.
Also, I'm wondering what's 'unfair' about outsourcing. Please explain.
I am absolutely in favor of removing tariffs, quotas, subsidies, and all other barriers to trade. But I'm a little confused about your last statement. Did you mean to say we shouldn't support companies protected by US trade barriers? If so, I agree. If I implied I was in favor of trade restrictions, it was in error. Open, free trade of goods, services, capital and labor will improve the US economy, as well as the economies of our trading partners. Capitalism IS NOT a zero-sum game.
Outsourcing is nothing more than a natural market reaction to overpriced labor in certain areas of the economy. It is clearly in the interest of corporations to find the cheapest labor skilled enough to do a job. Outsourcing is a market-driven hint to some in the labor pool to expand their skills, find new opportunities, invent, completely change career paths, or otherwise find a way to make themselves valuable.
According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the US enjoys a trade surplus in services, to the tune of $60 billion. A large portion of that surplus is computer services. This bears repeating: we import more programming/analysis/consulting than we export. The the overall service balance is shrinking, from $64B in 2002 to $60B last year, but is still a large surplus. The shrinking is easy to explain: as more nations/laborpools develop the skills to do certain jobs, companies are given greater selection. Salaries in the computer services secotr in the US will trend downward, while they will be pulled up overseas. They will meet in the middle somewhere
Not all jobs will be outsourced. There will still be many jobs, especially in emerging markets, that cannot be outsourced because laborers overseas do not yet have the skills needed to do the jobs. This is a great opportunity for those left without a job to improve their skills and enter these 'safe' markets.
There is no sence in complaining about outsourcing. "Evil" corporations are going to do it whether you like it or not. Government protection is not the answer, mainly because it isn't the government's responsibility to ensure you have a job. That onus lies on you. If you are unemployed, stop reading Slashdot and find a way to be valuable to the economy. Self-reliance, innovation and hard work are what made this country what it is and will continue to keep it great.
As the US labor pool is forced to become more skilled, the standard of living in countries like India will rise, creating a larger market for US produced goods, thus creating more jobs is the US.
I repeat: THE ANSWER IS NOT GOVERNMENT HANDOUT, SUBSIDY OR PROTECTION!!!! IT'S AMERICAN INDUSTRY AND HARD WORK!!!
I agree. I am LDS, and have often wondered what a his stake president or bishop would think if informed about Mr. McBride's actions.
I have read with interest the comments in many SCO threads about the LDS Church's supposed 'anti-Linux' stance. Furthermore, I'm always amused by those who think the Church owns SCO, or that Church leaders are trying to bring down OSS with backroom deals and shady support. It's laughable, really.
To counter the claim that the LDS Church wants to destroy Linux, consider this: I was reading the latest issue of Linux Journal and happened to flip to the list of editors and contributors near the front of the magazine. I was reading down the list of writors, editors, etc. and came to the Editorial Advisory Board section. There, along with names like Bruce Perens and John 'maddog' Hall, was the following entry:
Ransom Love, Directory of Strategic Relationships, Family and Church History Department, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
I know who Ransom Love is, but I also know that the LDS Church doesn't just allow it's representatives to throw around the Church's name. The LDS Church is clearly interested in Linux.
SCOX share prices are taking a hit today, down almost 12% as of twenty minutes ago. It's a good thing the SCO executives have been bailing out when they have. They really could have taken a hit today.
You'd think they planned that or something!
I love the headline of the Reuters article. It keys in on SCO strategy: no business plan, no propsects, no problem! We'll steal from, er, sue somebody!
You do realize that Peter Jackson and much of his production staff are from New Zealand, right? Jackson pitched the idea to New Line; the studio didn't go pitch the movie to Jackson in New Zealand because it was going to be cheaper to film there.
Can you say Gladiator? For all your antipathy, you seem to forget the epic that was so acclaimed only a couple years ago. It had many of the same elements that RotK has ("gynormous fight scenes and CG"). However, RotK, like Gladiator, has a compelling story more meaningful than just hack-and-slash.
Well, Utah is the Land of Mormons (I'm mormon; one wife here, by the way). I live in Idaho, and very rarely visit the Land of Mormons, but the last time I was there, everyone seemed fairly normal. It must have been in the last couple of years that the Land of Mormons has become such a hotbed of stupidity.
I work for a software company that provides business management software to collision repair shops (yes, body shops). We are a very small company, with only one programmer (mainly by his choice; he's the owner and a bit of a megalomaniac), myself, another tech, and a secretary.
Body shops pay a lot of money for our software, and often times unwittingly become beta testers. This, however, is not entirely caused by programmers/tech support. We have a partner company that sells our product, and frequently the sales staff sells our software on the basis of what it will do, or could do, in the future. The onus is then placed on us (programming/tech support) to make the sales staff honest people. This leads to hastily written code, insufficient (or no) testing, and premature releases. If the software was sold, and purchased, based on it's functionality AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, a big part of the problem would disappear, at least in our industry.
Don't you know: Microsoft invented TCP\IP (backslash intended), text editors (vi is a clone), and 3D grapics (OpenGL stole Mr. Gates idea). Microsoft is the real victim here. If the rest of the world would simply respect their prowess, stop reverse-engineering their products, and sell their ideas to them, we would all be happy.
I remember writing my high school senior research paper. My topic was affirmative action. The www.hornyteens.com web site sure was a big help. I don't think I could have finished the paper without it!!! Down with censorship!!!
Here's an article about the incident. Schilling's outrage is understandable. His ERA is around 4.00 in Arizona (which has the questec system installed), and under 2.00 on the road. Schilling, and a lot of other pitchers in the league, thrive on catching the outside corner of plate or throwing high-and-tight fastballs to stike batters out. The umpires are essentially graded by the machines, and have said they want to call certain pitches strikes, but can't because they know the machine will say it was a ball.
The league installed the machines to get a "uniform" strike zone. I personally think the machines will take away an important part of the game. As a fan, I want to see the pitching dual. I want to see a game called by a home-plate ump that can call close pitches how he see's 'em (or how he wants to see 'em). I love baseball because it's so human: relaxed time divided by moments of tension. Questec will take away a little of that humanity.
Besides, it's kind of a slap in the face to the league umps to say they need machines checking their work.
Pretty cool, huh? It's actually pronounced with a "long A", but it's very humorous nonetheless. He's actually been a pretty good senator, but he is crap-worthy at times.
Slashdot Mirror
Consider yourself flamed.
but isn't Salesforce.com a JSP shop, not ASP.
Click the 'Logo Contest' link. That's where the fun begins. Just don't do it at work.
Has anyone clicked on the link. The Geronimo site appears to be hacked.
Cisco in no way represents the rest of us in the proprietary software industry. We in no way have or condone software backdoors.
Bill Gates, Microsoft
Rob Glaser, RealNetworks
I conceed that if all sectors of our economy remained as they are today and outsourcing continued, the end result would be as you describe. The American standard of living would likely decrease much more than the Indian standard of living would increase, simply because they have four times as many people as the US. However...
Unless somebody invents a really kick-ass widget which nobody can produce off-shore, the American dream is in for a rude awakening.
Someone will invent the next widget, or an effective hydrogen fuel cell, or a distributed OS, or a million other things that will create jobs for Americans. The idea that the state of industry will remain static is a little short-sighted. Our economy is so effective because we invent things, or we make things that other people invented better. We are not an economy that takes the Marxist view that labor is the only real asset available to humanity. We prize entrepreneurial vision.
You bring up the scarce resource of oil. Good example. When American researchers announce they have a viable hydrogen-based solution for powering communities, American corporations will suddenly have a product millions of people will want. An industry will be created, along with thousands of jobs. Will some of them be outsourced? Eventually, yes. But other industries will pop up to replace it. It's happened before. It will happen again.
The threat of duty free imports will make CEOs rethink their offshoring strategies.
This is an angle I hadn't considered before. I love it, and completely agree. All trade barriers on goods, services, capital, labor, etc. should be removed. This will increase real wealth in the US by making imported goods cheaper. This frees up capital for investment, which in turn creates jobs.
I am sorry you are about to loose your job, but you sound like the type that will be able to make some opportunities for yourself.
You should quote sources for your numbers. Spewing statistical diarrhea is not helpful. If you have an argument, please do your best to back it up with a source.
Also, I'm wondering what's 'unfair' about outsourcing. Please explain.
I am absolutely in favor of removing tariffs, quotas, subsidies, and all other barriers to trade. But I'm a little confused about your last statement. Did you mean to say we shouldn't support companies protected by US trade barriers? If so, I agree. If I implied I was in favor of trade restrictions, it was in error. Open, free trade of goods, services, capital and labor will improve the US economy, as well as the economies of our trading partners. Capitalism IS NOT a zero-sum game.
Outsourcing is nothing more than a natural market reaction to overpriced labor in certain areas of the economy. It is clearly in the interest of corporations to find the cheapest labor skilled enough to do a job. Outsourcing is a market-driven hint to some in the labor pool to expand their skills, find new opportunities, invent, completely change career paths, or otherwise find a way to make themselves valuable.
According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the US enjoys a trade surplus in services, to the tune of $60 billion. A large portion of that surplus is computer services. This bears repeating: we import more programming/analysis/consulting than we export. The the overall service balance is shrinking, from $64B in 2002 to $60B last year, but is still a large surplus. The shrinking is easy to explain: as more nations/laborpools develop the skills to do certain jobs, companies are given greater selection. Salaries in the computer services secotr in the US will trend downward, while they will be pulled up overseas. They will meet in the middle somewhere
Not all jobs will be outsourced. There will still be many jobs, especially in emerging markets, that cannot be outsourced because laborers overseas do not yet have the skills needed to do the jobs. This is a great opportunity for those left without a job to improve their skills and enter these 'safe' markets.
There is no sence in complaining about outsourcing. "Evil" corporations are going to do it whether you like it or not. Government protection is not the answer, mainly because it isn't the government's responsibility to ensure you have a job. That onus lies on you. If you are unemployed, stop reading Slashdot and find a way to be valuable to the economy. Self-reliance, innovation and hard work are what made this country what it is and will continue to keep it great.
As the US labor pool is forced to become more skilled, the standard of living in countries like India will rise, creating a larger market for US produced goods, thus creating more jobs is the US.
I repeat: THE ANSWER IS NOT GOVERNMENT HANDOUT, SUBSIDY OR PROTECTION!!!! IT'S AMERICAN INDUSTRY AND HARD WORK!!!
The seems Billy has smoked one too many erasers (see article picture).
I agree. I am LDS, and have often wondered what a his stake president or bishop would think if informed about Mr. McBride's actions.
I have read with interest the comments in many SCO threads about the LDS Church's supposed 'anti-Linux' stance. Furthermore, I'm always amused by those who think the Church owns SCO, or that Church leaders are trying to bring down OSS with backroom deals and shady support. It's laughable, really.
To counter the claim that the LDS Church wants to destroy Linux, consider this: I was reading the latest issue of Linux Journal and happened to flip to the list of editors and contributors near the front of the magazine. I was reading down the list of writors, editors, etc. and came to the Editorial Advisory Board section. There, along with names like Bruce Perens and John 'maddog' Hall, was the following entry:
Ransom Love, Directory of Strategic Relationships, Family and Church History Department, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
I know who Ransom Love is, but I also know that the LDS Church doesn't just allow it's representatives to throw around the Church's name. The LDS Church is clearly interested in Linux.
SCOX share prices are taking a hit today, down almost 12% as of twenty minutes ago. It's a good thing the SCO executives have been bailing out when they have. They really could have taken a hit today.
You'd think they planned that or something!
I love the headline of the Reuters article. It keys in on SCO strategy: no business plan, no propsects, no problem! We'll steal from, er, sue somebody!
You do realize that Peter Jackson and much of his production staff are from New Zealand, right? Jackson pitched the idea to New Line; the studio didn't go pitch the movie to Jackson in New Zealand because it was going to be cheaper to film there.
Frankly, the Yankees suck, and the Red Sox would have won, if only I had thrown my 75 year old grandpa to the family room floor by his head.
Can you say Gladiator? For all your antipathy, you seem to forget the epic that was so acclaimed only a couple years ago. It had many of the same elements that RotK has ("gynormous fight scenes and CG"). However, RotK, like Gladiator, has a compelling story more meaningful than just hack-and-slash.
Well, Utah is the Land of Mormons (I'm mormon; one wife here, by the way). I live in Idaho, and very rarely visit the Land of Mormons, but the last time I was there, everyone seemed fairly normal. It must have been in the last couple of years that the Land of Mormons has become such a hotbed of stupidity.
I work for a software company that provides business management software to collision repair shops (yes, body shops). We are a very small company, with only one programmer (mainly by his choice; he's the owner and a bit of a megalomaniac), myself, another tech, and a secretary.
Body shops pay a lot of money for our software, and often times unwittingly become beta testers. This, however, is not entirely caused by programmers/tech support. We have a partner company that sells our product, and frequently the sales staff sells our software on the basis of what it will do, or could do, in the future. The onus is then placed on us (programming/tech support) to make the sales staff honest people. This leads to hastily written code, insufficient (or no) testing, and premature releases. If the software was sold, and purchased, based on it's functionality AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, a big part of the problem would disappear, at least in our industry.
Vizzini: HE DIDN'T FALL? INCONCEIVABLE!
Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
This is slightly unrelated, but do you know of a book designed for Java programmers moving to C++?
July 7th is National Rob-As-Many-Banks-As-You-Can Day. In Canada, the 14th is Kill-Puppies Day. And down in Argentina, the 30th is Moon-Your-Boss-Day.
Not to be outdone, Louisiana has added 37 more days of Mardi Gras, and Brazil has announced Carnival will be from July 03 - July 05.
If /. gets hacked, I'll wet myself laughing.
Don't you know: Microsoft invented TCP\IP (backslash intended), text editors (vi is a clone), and 3D grapics (OpenGL stole Mr. Gates idea). Microsoft is the real victim here. If the rest of the world would simply respect their prowess, stop reverse-engineering their products, and sell their ideas to them, we would all be happy.
Must ... not ... gag ...
I remember writing my high school senior research paper. My topic was affirmative action. The www.hornyteens.com web site sure was a big help. I don't think I could have finished the paper without it!!! Down with censorship!!!
Here's an article about the incident. Schilling's outrage is understandable. His ERA is around 4.00 in Arizona (which has the questec system installed), and under 2.00 on the road. Schilling, and a lot of other pitchers in the league, thrive on catching the outside corner of plate or throwing high-and-tight fastballs to stike batters out. The umpires are essentially graded by the machines, and have said they want to call certain pitches strikes, but can't because they know the machine will say it was a ball.
The league installed the machines to get a "uniform" strike zone. I personally think the machines will take away an important part of the game. As a fan, I want to see the pitching dual. I want to see a game called by a home-plate ump that can call close pitches how he see's 'em (or how he wants to see 'em). I love baseball because it's so human: relaxed time divided by moments of tension. Questec will take away a little of that humanity.
Besides, it's kind of a slap in the face to the league umps to say they need machines checking their work.
Pretty cool, huh? It's actually pronounced with a "long A", but it's very humorous nonetheless. He's actually been a pretty good senator, but he is crap-worthy at times.