I've seen a lot of slashdot posts and responses and even been duped into responding premeturely. I must say the for someone to think this is gonna have an adverse effevt on QNX is just stupid. QNX makes OS's for embedded systems. Most of the time, these systems are not on the 'Net. They could be on a company LAN and prolly not even that. They are meant for real-time data acquisition and stability in general. The fact it's Unix-like is mere convience for programmers. By the time such a system is put "into production," its UI should have been dumbed down to allow a "non-computer user" to work it. Think of the ATM. If the thing is sitting with a start button before you enter your pin (or after) a lot of dumb people will shit there pants. Man, Im going to bed, tired of the rant.
Now I can't say for sure cause I wasn't around, but was there widespread protesting before Standard Oil and AT&T were broken Up. I doubt it. Why? Becuase a majority of the population didn't know better. All they knew is gasoline cost them X and Phone service cost Y and they coulnd't buy their own phone. But they elected "intelligent" officials (representatives, senators, presidents) who would look out for them. Thats the whole idea of a democratic government. We elect persons who will look out for us. The fact that 19 states haved filed suit against M$ shows that there are SOME people out here that do know and care about what M$ has done. This is their way of protesting, and it _IS_ valid. They feel they have not been given the opportunity to purchase or create technologies because of how M$ does business. Now granted, some of those constituents are employees for M$ rivals, but they are citizens of said state and their opinion counts just as much as the next persons. Just the same, I'm sure that many in Washington state have shown great support for M$, regardless of whether or not they're M$ employees. But if they aren't, thats even better for M$' cause. All I basically have to say is this is how we are supposed to be represented. The court is looking out for the little guys, because when we go in like we have (with an anti-trust case) the big guy, Bill, _MUST_ listen.
It's called 'Laisez Faire' economics, which if you don't remember HS social studies means "the government keeps their nose(s) out of business." I mentioned to a co-worker that I wouldn't be surprised if M$ tried to question the validity of the Sherman Anti-Trust act. Consider the implications of overturning that. M$ has a considerable amount of money to put behind this. They've already stated they will follow this ruling all the way up to the Supreme Court. What do you really think they're going to discuss at the Supreme Court, IE bundling, un-fair business practices... Please, they're gonna try to slam the government with everything they can. Look at the "Freedom to Innovate" campaign. I can't beleive they actually think they're being stifled by the DoJ. For Gosh sakes, they've bought or stolen everything they've "innovated!" Man, you guys got me all pissed now. I'm gonna go take a walk:-)
The whole privacy invasion thing can end with a simple act. ISP's and other providers need to create a policy where someone actually reads them and then discards them in a set amount of time. That way, the ISP knows whats going on on his servers, and the privacy of the consumers won't be at risk. I can't imagine the Fed trying to enact a law that states ISP's must maintain logs for an indefinate period. Can you say _TOO_ much oversight. But you all keep electing them;-)
Dude.. The idea is they're already losing money on it by selling it for $99. I won't be able to afford the thing with the mods you're suggesting. Now y'all can flame all you want, but $100 for neat toy sounds good to me, unethical or not. Plus, if I f*up the thing trying to hack it, whose fault is it? I won't be able to take it back to the store. It's my own damn fault and I should have just used it the way the wanted me to.
Dude, they used QNX. you remember, the people Amiga was gonna work with before gateway sold them:-) I must say its pretty sweet for them to have used QNX instead of WinCE. I wouldn't have given them that much credit to use a REAL OS!
Man, the two Circuit City's in Delaware have them on back order. Like a dumbass I ordered one before reading about they're press release. From the way the quickie press release looks, it looks like they are only gonna force the 2 year commitment on those who purchase said device from them directly. I am getting mine from Circuit City in New Castle, DE in a week or two (hopefully) and if they ask me to sign a contract, to hell with it. Even if the machine is modified by the time I get it, at least it'll have only been a $100 f* up!
Dude, this is yet another instance of M$ using their market clout to hold (potential) customers at bay while they work on a system. You must remember the whole Win95/O/S2 Warp thing... IBM had a good working 32-bit OS like, what a year or two, before Win95 hit the market?! We didn't go that route because Bill announced his new baby and let the ship date(s) slip and slip until he had a (reasonable) working build. If M$ doesn't get broken up, this is just gonna continue. If Sony were smart, they _would_ change their OS preference:-)
Sorry dude for the typos... whats my excuse at 11:30 in the morning:-) I must have just woken up! It looked to me as if whatszizface got you off on a tangent and i wanted to explain what I understood you to mean so that others might see the angle.
Basically, I understand BTK to be saying that because your are patching an original work (you had to start somewhere) like Apache, or in someone elses example the linux kernel, it doesn't matter whos writing what patch code. Because the original work was GPL'd, the language of the GPL in conjunction with US copyright law dictates that all subsquent "derivitave work" must be GPL'd in order to be released. The idea BTK is getting at, whether he realizes it or not (I cant tell because he's bantering with you now), is this: the _original_ program was released under the GPL. Any modification of the original is (DUH!!!) being _performed_ upon the _original_. Therefore, according to RSM's GPL, the modification must be GPL'd. I think this is kinda obvious, when you look at the arguements provided by BTK. Now we aren't even looking yet at a patch of a patch, but personally I think it's retarded to consider this. Consider this, if a lawyer pushed the definition of "derivative work" so that a modification of a modification could be released under a different license, it would create such a legal precedent that everyone would jump on the bandwagon to modify modifications of various software. Just think, i could patch a patch of windows and publish the new derivitave work under the GPL! At least thats my angle on BTK's statement.
No Dude, you're totaly right. Heaven forbid a parent might have to raise their kid(s) on his/her/their own. If these people had taught their kids right from the beginning, i wouldn't have to cringe everytime i watch Ghostbusters on Cable, or click the "enter" button on those p0rn sites;-) Mommy and Daddy should have to watch over their kids. I gotta watch my puppy, otherwise he'll piss all over the floor or eat the packing peanuts or harass the cat. I say, watch your own damn kids so that my Gov't can spend my money on something worthwhile. mrBoB
I don't really agree with the "Meta" TLD idea; What I suggest is something along the lines of proactive domain-name verification. ICANN or whomever could check on new applicants web-sites at random times after "starting" the domain. If there isn't a quantifiable amount of content, and I mean REAL/reasonable content, they could yank the domain. Web-sites whose only content is "Highest bidder gets site" or those like openssh.org would be knocked out of the game. Well anyway, thats my.02
You're just wrong dood. If openssh.org had content then it would be something for you to bitch about. The point is all he has is two links on the page. All he is trying to do is piss off a legitimate group and perhaps make some money. I hope the openssh team hold out.
Man, now wouldnt that be great... A TLD named.XXX or.porn. You could get Squid to drop all connections from.porn sites !!! No more crummy banners or spam.
Yeah, that's a pretty funny story. What I want to know is.. what took so long? Seriously though, is this really gonna save 85-90% of your disk space? I don't know about anyone else, but very seldom do my programs install the stock DLLs into their own directory, without checking c:\winnt\system32.
You know, I read shit like this and I wonder who in the hell thought up such a scheme. It obviously is only intended to make OSS illegal. This'll obviously lock up the most basic (and essential) component of computer systems, if it is really applied to PC's. How will (OSS) drivers be written for a video card that has "locked-up (NDA) copy-protection scheme" encryption hardware? Let's be reasonable. For the most part, we alternative OS users use 'em for either one of two principles a) we dont wanna be ruled by the M$ tyrannt or b) we wanna have fun with the OS using open tools. They could go hand in hand, but either way open tools don't lend themselves to copyright controlled hardware, which is how I read this article to be indicating is our future. Right now, I don't _have_ to watch my TV with a cable-box, i don't even have to use cable. I can hang an antennae on my roof or backyard. It's simple, but I have a choice. Well if all this ends up working, over the course of the next few years, we'll have another (perhaps harder) choice. We can choose a) to use our outdated *but not copyright controlled* hardware or b) we can choose to get into the 21st,22nd, 23rd (whatever) century and enjoy the luxuries of DVD's or whatever the Movie industry comes up with and lose our OSS movement because we want to watch movies or listen to music, or interface with the Internet.
One thing I want to know is what's Micro$hafts LEGAL trademarked "Windows" software? As everyone knows, we have "Windows95" and "Windows98." We have "Windows NT" et al. and "Windows 2000." Then alas, we have what started it all, Windows >= 3.11. Weren't these _versions_ trademarked as "Windows" with a version number following? Since we moved to 9x and NT, M$ has trademarked the name "Windows 95", "Windows 98" and such. Now is Billy gonna release the source for Win3.11 based on a technicality? I think that if this "open source" option is truly explored by all parties, a lot of clarification is gonna need to be made. Call me a little paranoid.... mrBoB
You know, I remember checking out CERT last December and reading/downloading the "notes" they provided regarding their conference on "Distributed-Systems Intruder Tools workshop.". Anyways, I find it peculiar that these floods are now becoming a problem only a month and a half after the notes were made available. That, in my eyes, proves one reason not to make such information available. On the other hand, by providing the info it allows us, the OSS community, to create and make available to all tools necessary to combat the problem. It really pisses me off to see news sites jump to conclusion on things, ESP if they have no valid proof. Now I wonder what would happen if the mrBoB News Network (MbNN) made a clain either/both online or TV that M$ had been to blame? I'd be sued for slander or whatever. It's a shame that we have no real way to enforce the same protections for a good name (for linux + OSS) So, IMHO, I figure it serves current.net right to be DoS'd or/... or whatever you wanna call it. BoB
(read with sarcastic tone) Wow, these companies are soooo nice. I'm sure they're only giving out top-'o-the line stuff, a nice PIII-500mhz w/ 21" monitor, 25 gig of disk space and at least 128 meg of ram! Man, i should go work for Ford, or Northwest Airlines! Yep, I think 25 Gig of disk space will be a lot of room to store all those emails regarding sick-outs and stuff. What a nice company Ford is...
You know, I am tired of reading stories like this. I'd like to thank all the media who waste our time reporting this crap. What can we do about the government making stupid decisions. Oh wait, you all have mouths and hands; call or write your congressmen; Start raising some (peacefull now!) hell with em. Our representatives and senators need to know what we really think about what they're trying to vote in to law. It's one thing if Billy gives a speech vowing to rid our schools of these violent people. It's another when he, or any public servent, allow or suggest that citizens be monitored like inmates. Behavioural profiling should be confined to dealing with threats, not potential threats. I got picked on in high school, i was relatively introverted. My grades were poor and I consider myself an average guy. I enjoy playing quake(1,2,3) and Unreal tournement:-) But let me tell ya, i would never kill a human IRL. It's one thing to be blown away in silicon, but i know i couldn't handle the psycological trauma associated with killing someone. As a group, we nerds and geeks need to be real proactive when we can. Perhaps other segments of this nations population will pick up the ball too; maybe we get better than 50% popular vote!
For as much as I'd like to see this industry bud and spread into many diverse outlets, I can only WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you (Wolfgang). We'd all like to be able to login to that server at work, or pay bills electronicly, buy pizza or groceries online. But I think, and most of you will agree, that the benefits of being able to do such transactions don't even come close to being the same weight of the negative impacts of such info getting out. It's bad enough I have to disclose my SSN to everyone and their mother/brother/uncle. Damn receipts from Credit card transactions seem to always have all the digits from my card. And yet people buy books, computer parts and stocks online because someone in a marketing department thought the idea (of e-commerce) sounded cool. I say damn the media! Stop buying these damn magazines/newspapers, stop watching that channel that always puts those e-commerce news and commercials on in prime-time. Or better yet, slashdot them. Write the hell out of them. If we want to see some change in the _global_ online transaction game, lots of us need to raise one hell of a stink. If they dont have a market, they wont sell it.
Jesus, how long has this damn trial been going on? I'm sure Judge Jackson has picked up a few things about this technology. Also keep in mind this is a monopoly case. At the vary least, he has tried cases to fall back on (att and stand. oil) to act as a guide. I shouldn't have to buy a totally different architecture just so i can use my beloved Linux (or whatever, BSD, Warp (ha!), Be). I can buy a barebones desktop w/o an OS. Unfortunately, notebooks do not lend themselves very well to being open spec. These companies, for the most part, do not have "options" available to those of us who would prefer not to have a M$ operating system. So I have to pay 200 to 400 more dollars to purchase said machine, when I would have put Linux on it. That sux. Were not talking about punishing success here. M$ has disallowed computer manufacturers to bundle any other OS with their hardware, if they are gonna sell any one peice w/ Win9x or NT. Those are the illegal tactics that the DOJ are targeting. BTW, did anyone read that Bill Parish article a few days ago (here) on Slashdot? Thats a whole other concern we should have about M$.
Slashdot Mirror
I've seen a lot of slashdot posts and responses and even been duped into responding premeturely. I must say the for someone to think this is gonna have an adverse effevt on QNX is just stupid. QNX makes OS's for embedded systems. Most of the time, these systems are not on the 'Net. They could be on a company LAN and prolly not even that. They are meant for real-time data acquisition and stability in general. The fact it's Unix-like is mere convience for programmers. By the time such a system is put "into production," its UI should have been dumbed down to allow a "non-computer user" to work it. Think of the ATM. If the thing is sitting with a start button before you enter your pin (or after) a lot of dumb people will shit there pants. Man, Im going to bed, tired of the rant.
mrBoB
You know, sometimes I hate government. As you can see though, it doesn't matter where you live. There's always someone whos gonna get you.
Now I can't say for sure cause I wasn't around, but was there widespread protesting before Standard Oil and AT&T were broken Up. I doubt it. Why? Becuase a majority of the population didn't know better. All they knew is gasoline cost them X and Phone service cost Y and they coulnd't buy their own phone. But they elected "intelligent" officials (representatives, senators, presidents) who would look out for them. Thats the whole idea of a democratic government. We elect persons who will look out for us. The fact that 19 states haved filed suit against M$ shows that there are SOME people out here that do know and care about what M$ has done. This is their way of protesting, and it _IS_ valid. They feel they have not been given the opportunity to purchase or create technologies because of how M$ does business. Now granted, some of those constituents are employees for M$ rivals, but they are citizens of said state and their opinion counts just as much as the next persons. Just the same, I'm sure that many in Washington state have shown great support for M$, regardless of whether or not they're M$ employees. But if they aren't, thats even better for M$' cause. All I basically have to say is this is how we are supposed to be represented. The court is looking out for the little guys, because when we go in like we have (with an anti-trust case) the big guy, Bill, _MUST_ listen.
mrBoB
It's called 'Laisez Faire' economics, which if you don't remember HS social studies means "the government keeps their nose(s) out of business." I mentioned to a co-worker that I wouldn't be surprised if M$ tried to question the validity of the Sherman Anti-Trust act. Consider the implications of overturning that. M$ has a considerable amount of money to put behind this. They've already stated they will follow this ruling all the way up to the Supreme Court. What do you really think they're going to discuss at the Supreme Court, IE bundling, un-fair business practices ... Please, they're gonna try to slam the government with everything they can. Look at the "Freedom to Innovate" campaign. I can't beleive they actually think they're being stifled by the DoJ. For Gosh sakes, they've bought or stolen everything they've "innovated!" Man, you guys got me all pissed now. I'm gonna go take a walk :-)
mrBoB
The whole privacy invasion thing can end with a simple act. ISP's and other providers need to create a policy where someone actually reads them and then discards them in a set amount of time. That way, the ISP knows whats going on on his servers, and the privacy of the consumers won't be at risk. I can't imagine the Fed trying to enact a law that states ISP's must maintain logs for an indefinate period. Can you say _TOO_ much oversight. But you all keep electing them ;-)
mrBoB
Dude.. The idea is they're already losing money on it by selling it for $99. I won't be able to afford the thing with the mods you're suggesting. Now y'all can flame all you want, but $100 for neat toy sounds good to me, unethical or not. Plus, if I f*up the thing trying to hack it, whose fault is it? I won't be able to take it back to the store. It's my own damn fault and I should have just used it the way the wanted me to.
Dude, they used QNX. you remember, the people Amiga was gonna work with before gateway sold them :-) I must say its pretty sweet for them to have used QNX instead of WinCE. I wouldn't have given them that much credit to use a REAL OS!
mrBoB
Man, the two Circuit City's in Delaware have them on back order. Like a dumbass I ordered one before reading about they're press release. From the way the quickie press release looks, it looks like they are only gonna force the 2 year commitment on those who purchase said device from them directly. I am getting mine from Circuit City in New Castle, DE in a week or two (hopefully) and if they ask me to sign a contract, to hell with it. Even if the machine is modified by the time I get it, at least it'll have only been a $100 f* up!
mrBoB
Dude, this is yet another instance of M$ using their market clout to hold (potential) customers at bay while they work on a system. You must remember the whole Win95/O/S2 Warp thing... IBM had a good working 32-bit OS like, what a year or two, before Win95 hit the market?! We didn't go that route because Bill announced his new baby and let the ship date(s) slip and slip until he had a (reasonable) working build. If M$ doesn't get broken up, this is just gonna continue. If Sony were smart, they _would_ change their OS preference :-)
.02
my
mrBoB
Sorry dude for the typos... whats my excuse at 11:30 in the morning :-) I must have just woken up! It looked to me as if whatszizface got you off on a tangent and i wanted to explain what I understood you to mean so that others might see the angle.
mrBoB
Basically, I understand BTK to be saying that because your are patching an original work (you had to start somewhere) like Apache, or in someone elses example the linux kernel, it doesn't matter whos writing what patch code. Because the original work was GPL'd, the language of the GPL in conjunction with US copyright law dictates that all subsquent "derivitave work" must be GPL'd in order to be released. The idea BTK is getting at, whether he realizes it or not (I cant tell because he's bantering with you now), is this: the _original_ program was released under the GPL. Any modification of the original is (DUH!!!) being _performed_ upon the _original_. Therefore, according to RSM's GPL, the modification must be GPL'd. I think this is kinda obvious, when you look at the arguements provided by BTK. Now we aren't even looking yet at a patch of a patch, but personally I think it's retarded to consider this. Consider this, if a lawyer pushed the definition of "derivative work" so that a modification of a modification could be released under a different license, it would create such a legal precedent that everyone would jump on the bandwagon to modify modifications of various software. Just think, i could patch a patch of windows and publish the new derivitave work under the GPL!
At least thats my angle on BTK's statement.
mrbob
No Dude, you're totaly right. Heaven forbid a parent might have to raise their kid(s) on his/her/their own. If these people had taught their kids right from the beginning, i wouldn't have to cringe everytime i watch Ghostbusters on Cable, or click the "enter" button on those p0rn sites ;-) Mommy and Daddy should have to watch over their kids. I gotta watch my puppy, otherwise he'll piss all over the floor or eat the packing peanuts or harass the cat. I say, watch your own damn kids so that my Gov't can spend my money on something worthwhile. mrBoB
I don't really agree with the "Meta" TLD idea; What I suggest is something along the lines of proactive domain-name verification. ICANN or whomever could check on new applicants web-sites at random times after "starting" the domain. If there isn't a quantifiable amount of content, and I mean REAL/reasonable content, they could yank the domain. Web-sites whose only content is "Highest bidder gets site" or those like openssh.org would be knocked out of the game. Well anyway, thats my .02
BoB
You're just wrong dood. If openssh.org had content then it would be something for you to bitch about. The point is all he has is two links on the page. All he is trying to do is piss off a legitimate group and perhaps make some money. I hope the openssh team hold out.
Man, now wouldnt that be great... A TLD named .XXX or .porn. You could get Squid to drop all connections from .porn sites !!! No more crummy banners or spam.
Yeah, that's a pretty funny story. What I want to know is .. what took so long? Seriously though, is this really gonna save 85-90% of your disk space? I don't know about anyone else, but very seldom do my programs install the stock DLLs into their own directory, without checking c:\winnt\system32.
You know, I read shit like this and I wonder who in the hell thought up such a scheme. It obviously is only intended to make OSS illegal. This'll obviously lock up the most basic (and essential) component of computer systems, if it is really applied to PC's. How will (OSS) drivers be written for a video card that has "locked-up (NDA) copy-protection scheme" encryption hardware? Let's be reasonable. For the most part, we alternative OS users use 'em for either one of two principles a) we dont wanna be ruled by the M$ tyrannt or b) we wanna have fun with the OS using open tools. They could go hand in hand, but either way open tools don't lend themselves to copyright controlled hardware, which is how I read this article to be indicating is our future. Right now, I don't _have_ to watch my TV with a cable-box, i don't even have to use cable. I can hang an antennae on my roof or backyard. It's simple, but I have a choice. Well if all this ends up working, over the course of the next few years, we'll have another (perhaps harder) choice. We can choose a) to use our outdated *but not copyright controlled* hardware or b) we can choose to get into the 21st,22nd, 23rd (whatever) century and enjoy the luxuries of DVD's or whatever the Movie industry comes up with and lose our OSS movement because we want to watch movies or listen to music, or interface with the Internet.
One thing I want to know is what's Micro$hafts LEGAL trademarked "Windows" software? As everyone knows, we have "Windows95" and "Windows98." We have "Windows NT" et al. and "Windows 2000." Then alas, we have what started it all, Windows >= 3.11. Weren't these _versions_ trademarked as "Windows" with a version number following? Since we moved to 9x and NT, M$ has trademarked the name "Windows 95", "Windows 98" and such. Now is Billy gonna release the source for Win3.11 based on a technicality? I think that if this "open source" option is truly explored by all parties, a lot of clarification is gonna need to be made. Call me a little paranoid ....
mrBoB
You know, I remember checking out CERT last December and reading/downloading the "notes" they provided regarding their conference on "Distributed-Systems Intruder Tools workshop.". Anyways, I find it peculiar that these floods are now becoming a problem only a month and a half after the notes were made available. That, in my eyes, proves one reason not to make such information available. On the other hand, by providing the info it allows us, the OSS community, to create and make available to all tools necessary to combat the problem. It really pisses me off to see news sites jump to conclusion on things, ESP if they have no valid proof. Now I wonder what would happen if the mrBoB News Network (MbNN) made a clain either/both online or TV that M$ had been to blame? I'd be sued for slander or whatever. It's a shame that we have no real way to enforce the same protections for a good name (for linux + OSS) So, IMHO, I figure it serves current.net right to be DoS'd or /... or whatever you wanna call it. BoB
A-f***ing-men brother.
(read with sarcastic tone)
Wow, these companies are soooo nice. I'm sure they're only giving out top-'o-the line stuff, a nice PIII-500mhz w/ 21" monitor, 25 gig of disk space and at least 128 meg of ram! Man, i should go work for Ford, or Northwest Airlines! Yep, I think 25 Gig of disk space will be a lot of room to store all those emails regarding sick-outs and stuff. What a nice company Ford is...
You know, I am tired of reading stories like this. I'd like to thank all the media who waste our time reporting this crap. What can we do about the government making stupid decisions. Oh wait, you all have mouths and hands; call or write your congressmen; Start raising some (peacefull now!) hell with em. Our representatives and senators need to know what we really think about what they're trying to vote in to law. It's one thing if Billy gives a speech vowing to rid our schools of these violent people. It's another when he, or any public servent, allow or suggest that citizens be monitored like inmates. Behavioural profiling should be confined to dealing with threats, not potential threats. I got picked on in high school, i was relatively introverted. My grades were poor and I consider myself an average guy. I enjoy playing quake(1,2,3) and Unreal tournement :-) But let me tell ya, i would never kill a human IRL. It's one thing to be blown away in silicon, but i know i couldn't handle the psycological trauma associated with killing someone. As a group, we nerds and geeks need to be real proactive when we can. Perhaps other segments of this nations population will pick up the ball too; maybe we get better than 50% popular vote!
Remember, write, write, write!
bob
For as much as I'd like to see this industry bud and spread into many diverse outlets, I can only WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you (Wolfgang). We'd all like to be able to login to that server at work, or pay bills electronicly, buy pizza or groceries online. But I think, and most of you will agree, that the benefits of being able to do such transactions don't even come close to being the same weight of the negative impacts of such info getting out. It's bad enough I have to disclose my SSN to everyone and their mother/brother/uncle. Damn receipts from Credit card transactions seem to always have all the digits from my card.
And yet people buy books, computer parts and stocks online because someone in a marketing department thought the idea (of e-commerce) sounded cool. I say damn the media! Stop buying these damn magazines/newspapers, stop watching that channel that always puts those e-commerce news and commercials on in prime-time. Or better yet, slashdot them. Write the hell out of them. If we want to see some change in the _global_ online transaction game, lots of us need to raise one hell of a stink. If they dont have a market, they wont sell it.
Bob
Jesus, how long has this damn trial been going on? I'm sure Judge Jackson has picked up a few things about this technology. Also keep in mind this is a monopoly case. At the vary least, he has tried cases to fall back on (att and stand. oil) to act as a guide. I shouldn't have to buy a totally different architecture just so i can use my beloved Linux (or whatever, BSD, Warp (ha!), Be). I can buy a barebones desktop w/o an OS. Unfortunately, notebooks do not lend themselves very well to being open spec. These companies, for the most part, do not have "options" available to those of us who would prefer not to have a M$ operating system. So I have to pay 200 to 400 more dollars to purchase said machine, when I would have put Linux on it. That sux. Were not talking about punishing success here. M$ has disallowed computer manufacturers to bundle any other OS with their hardware, if they are gonna sell any one peice w/ Win9x or NT. Those are the illegal tactics that the DOJ are targeting. BTW, did anyone read that Bill Parish article a few days ago (here) on Slashdot? Thats a whole other concern we should have about M$.
Bob
Now there is an insightful statement. Do you mind if i use it?
Bob