I downloaded the latest version today, and installed it on my wife's high-end Mac. The startup time was 65 seconds for the first time, and 30 seconds for the next time. To me, that's unacceptable.
Welcome to OpenOffice. It even is like that on Linux. The second edition is a little better. I would not use it, but paying $400+ for an Office suite "to me, [is] unacceptable."
The correction that needs to happen is that companies need to learn to filter and find qualified, inexperienced applicants.
Amen.
Companies aren't willing to invest in entry-level enough to create the mid-level talent that is needed. It's going to get worse before it gets better - I see new grads branching into other careers when they can't find a job, so there's even less new talent coming in.
Its pretty hard to get your feet in the door. Recently, despite a great geek pedigree, I said "screw IT, I'm going to lawschool."
I totally realize AND understand that you like 'an OS for nerds, by nerds' and don't begrudge you or anyone else for feeling this way. However,you should refer to my original post to get where I was coming from.
I know its not the norm on/., but will you accept my apology?
If you're concerned with the lives of individuals, families, and communities, then you should be even more supportive of outsourcing. Or do you only care about American individuals, families, and communities?
I'm an American. I care about me, my family, and my community. Unless you see that perspective, you can never understand why some people refuse to understand.
Never in our history have a significant portion of workers who lost jobs in this way regained their living standards. Not the steal workers, not miners, not factory laborers, not textile workers. None of them. You can always find a sweet little success story but the statistics tell the whole truth. That is the cold reality of economics. Telling people that all they need is a good idea is stupid.
Fine. YOU tell the unemployed and underemployed masses that they are fucked and that they better get used to third world living standards. At least the other person gives some hope.
Have you ever thought that the Linux community doesn't want to get it? I am only recently a Linux fan (less than a year) but I've already progessed to the point that I don't care that much if its market share grows. I (like many geeks I bet) like the fact the "running linux= you are a nerd" in the public eye.
We like to have "as OS for nerds, by nerds." I like the fact that I don't have to even WORRY about malware and viruses because my OS isn't popular. When people ask me what computer to buy, I don't say "buy a Dell and put Ubuntu on it." I tell them to "buy a Mac." Why? Because at least it isn't Windows, but I'd rather Mac deal with the problems of popularity rather than Linux.
I know that some people care about this (Gnome, KDE people at least) but I think that many Linux users are happy with what they have. I'm quite happy with Ubuntu. Sure I want a few things to change, but I don't think its years away from being usable.
I used to love linux, but I gave that up for a Mac. No more "ps -ax," no more "su; chmod 755." And like most of us linux-turned-mac users, I realized there's more to life than trying to fix my sound support or looking up the right vi command sequence. But none of you linux users have.
Maybe we LIKE to do that stuff. Maybe I LIKE the fact that I have to hack a little to get some things to work. Reminds me of the old Dos days. Thats why there are options. I'm glad you like OSX. Its a great OS. But, I'd rather have Linux as it is. Each to his/her own.
I think this post's parent sums up exactly what others were posting about earlier with regards to much of the Linux community simply not getting 'it' when it comes to what people expect from a desktop.
Have you ever thought that the Linux community doesn't want to get it? I am only recently a Linux fan (less than a year) but I've already progessed to the point that I don't care that much if its market share grows. I (like many geeks I bet) like the fact the "running linux= you are a nerd" in the public eye.
We like to have "as OS for nerds, by nerds." I like the fact that I don't have to even WORRY about malware and viruses because my OS isn't popular. When people ask me what computer to buy, I don't say "buy a Dell and put Ubuntu on it." I tell them to "buy a Mac." Why? Because at least it isn't Windows, but I'd rather Mac deal with the problems of popularity rather than Linux.
I know that some people care about this (Gnome, KDE people at least) but I think that many Linux users are happy with what they have. I hope I get modded down for my honesty.
I know this is more of a GNU/Gnome issue but it would be easy for Ubuntu to solve and is something that most normal people would like to use at some point.
How is it easy for Ubuntu to solve? Buy the rights to MP3? That would cost a lot (per user I think) which doesn't jive with something given away for free.
Oh, you mean illegally include the mp3 codec with Ubuntu! That is only the easy route till you have your day in court. I know its a pain, but its that way for a reason. If you want, I can walk you through how to get this support in Ubuntu. Its pretty easy.
I just ran an update and my Debian unstable system has 16,924 packages listed, when I remove the half-dozen extra repositories in my sources.list. With all of those in, the count tops 18,000. I can't find a way to get a similar count for Gentoo, but in my experience it's much smaller.
I hear you as a Debian user and a package whore. I had it explained to me once that in Debian each lib and dependancy have a package, while in Gentoo each ebuild is a whole program in some cases, dependancies and all. I could be wrong, and I would like to be corrected if I am.
That's funny. I have a relatively new computer (A64 based mobo, ddr, sata, etc.), but I still have problems with sound and other issues when installing both ubuntu and fc4. Now as for programs, when we're talking about FOSS, you have to know what to download to be able to play DVDs, MP3s, etc., which most people don't. I love linux, but it ain't ready for prime time.
Prime Time=presinstalled OS as an option on computers.
If that happened tomorrow (or yesterday at Wal-Mart) these problems go away.
I think people place too much faith in the ability of Linux filesystems to "avoid fragmentation".
They do a good job if you don't fill the disks to the brim. My ext3 disk only goes above 1% fragmentation when it is nearly full. When that happens, there is this defragger.
I'll tell you why I like the commandline: I can copy lines of commands that I don't understand off webpages and fix problems in Linux without having to read a bunch of GUIs.
I yeah....I guess I don't learn anything. You're right!
In the meantime, I'm uninstalling OS X on my older Mac gear. Tiger left two of my machines behind. They'll be converted to PPC Linux. There's already an Ubuntu Live CD in my Bluberry iBook.
Hello. I noticed that you will be undertaking a task I recently went through, putting Linux on an original iBook. That link has most of my experiance, but here is a quick summary:
For a good experiance in Ubuntu, at least 256mb of RAM is needed. You can get by with less if you are willing to hack and try other window managers, but if you want the nice integrated experiance you have to have at least that much ram. I have 300 in my iBook and it runs great. Better than the original OS in my opinion. But that Live CD might not run so well, as the iBook's cd drive is slow.
You will be happy to know that the Airport card works without a hitch. I use WEP and Wireless networking all day long. With this howto you can get the great Kismet to work.
PPC Linux lacks a real flash pluggin. There are free ones but they don't work so good (they require more CPU power than iBook has most of the time). Looking at broken puzzle pieces suck, so I use this extension and never click play.
But sure to check out the Ubuntu Guide, as most of the advice (everything cept windows codecs, those don't work) is the same for PPC. Also check out the PPC wiki.
Good luck and be sure to come to the forums if you need help.
After the install, I got several errors related to the GUI, then I was dropped to a command prompt. Ubuntu was DOA for me.
Hello. I am a mod on the Ubuntu Forum and I run into that problem a lot. That means that the install CD you used was bunk. An OS is much more sensitive than a regular CD so try washing it off then reinstalling or burning a new install cd at lower speeds. Thanks for your time.
Re:Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora
on
Fedora Core 4 Available
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· Score: 3, Informative
Now this isn't really fair. I'm like Mr. Ubuntu, but I admit that Fedora has some neat things that Ubuntu lacks currently. Xen, SE Linux, a graphical installer, a Usplash, among other things. Fedora is a good distro and does a good job of hammering out the most bleeding edge stuff before anyone else has too...
Hardware developers will be falling all over themselves to support OS X.
For future stuff sure. And now Mac does have a more 3 party drivers than Linux will have for a while.
Linux is not OS X. That should be all I had to say, but just to make it clear...
You are correct., despite some common ancestory they are very different. One is an nice and very modern OS that is meant to run on Apple hardware (and will do so in the future, sorry guys) and is probably the best desktop OS on the planet. Yet this greatness costs money. The other is a free and flexible OS that is great for servers and development work. Progress on the Linux desktop increases swiftly but it still lags behind other desktop OSes in key areas. Yet it runs on almost every personal computer you can get you hands on, unlike OSX.
Driver support in Linux sucks because developers have to write drivers from scratch using a crystal ball or hardware developers throw it together real quick to say they have it
Driver support sucks because the whole thing is semi-hostile to non open drivers and because it has too small of a marketshare to be worth developing for.
OSX won't be on Dells officially because it lacks "drivers, drivers, drivers."
I mean, any Linux fan will tell you happens when you try to support every crap part in every crap x86 box out there. OSX does the magic it does because it only has to account for the exact hardware that Apple sells. You put OSX on Dell and it would run like crap (if it would run at all).
Third, Getting drivers for the generic hardware should be no problem since they run on a BSD kernel anyways. The drivers for the most part will already be there. Just a few tweaks and optimizations and you're set.
LOL!!! You must be kidding me! I love my open OSes but to say that BSD (or Linux, or Windows out of the box) even supports 50% of hardware out there is a longshot. So many damn, cheap webcams and wireless cards and sound cards and etc. till I could puke. You obviously haven't tried to install BSD on as a desktop on more than one or two systems!
Hey people, get it through your head!!!! There are too many x86 combinations out there for Apple to consider selling OSX for Dells. Isn't going to happen. Please deal with it so I can stop posting the same obvious stuff!
It means hundreds of millions of Americans have their standard of living depressed because a few hundred steel workers want to live off our tax dollars via government subsidy instead of going back to school and getting trained to do something american companies actually need them for.
Like what? I always hear this "they can always just go to community college get a new job." But I know a lot of people who recently graduated in many different majors that can't find any job better than they could have had if they would not have gone to school. All of these people went to school at flagship public and private universities, and most of them had good grades. If they can't make it, what can some Joe at community college do?
People who don't want to buy Macs,but do want to run OS X, will go out, buy the DVD for $100 or so, and install it on non-apple hardware.
Some of these people will report it to slashdot, and some poster in the forums will go "In your face Steve Jobs! HAHAHAHAA!!!!"
Actually, I think most people that would have this attitude will just pirate OSX. In some parts of the internet, people trade whole 4 gig dvds like its an Mp3 or something.
In summery, It will come down to a few lines of code that need to be circumvented, if that, to run Mac OS-X on white box PCs. Their goal is to make it difficult for "normal" users to run OS-X on white box PCs.
Yep. It will get on their eventually, but it will not be a supported platform. Apple will probably defend OSX with its eager lawyer team....not with hardware lockouts.
Slashdot Mirror
Welcome to OpenOffice. It even is like that on Linux. The second edition is a little better. I would not use it, but paying $400+ for an Office suite "to me, [is] unacceptable."
This article needs some photoshopping (screw adobe I like using the word photoshop as a present progressive).
Oh yeah...XP blows....
Amen.
Companies aren't willing to invest in entry-level enough to create the mid-level talent that is needed. It's going to get worse before it gets better - I see new grads branching into other careers when they can't find a job, so there's even less new talent coming in.
Its pretty hard to get your feet in the door. Recently, despite a great geek pedigree, I said "screw IT, I'm going to lawschool."
I know its not the norm on /., but will you accept my apology?
I'm an American. I care about me, my family, and my community. Unless you see that perspective, you can never understand why some people refuse to understand.
Fine. YOU tell the unemployed and underemployed masses that they are fucked and that they better get used to third world living standards. At least the other person gives some hope.
Have you ever thought that the Linux community doesn't want to get it? I am only recently a Linux fan (less than a year) but I've already progessed to the point that I don't care that much if its market share grows. I (like many geeks I bet) like the fact the "running linux= you are a nerd" in the public eye.
We like to have "as OS for nerds, by nerds." I like the fact that I don't have to even WORRY about malware and viruses because my OS isn't popular. When people ask me what computer to buy, I don't say "buy a Dell and put Ubuntu on it." I tell them to "buy a Mac." Why? Because at least it isn't Windows, but I'd rather Mac deal with the problems of popularity rather than Linux.
I know that some people care about this (Gnome, KDE people at least) but I think that many Linux users are happy with what they have. I'm quite happy with Ubuntu. Sure I want a few things to change, but I don't think its years away from being usable.
I used to love linux, but I gave that up for a Mac. No more "ps -ax," no more "su; chmod 755." And like most of us linux-turned-mac users, I realized there's more to life than trying to fix my sound support or looking up the right vi command sequence. But none of you linux users have.
Maybe we LIKE to do that stuff. Maybe I LIKE the fact that I have to hack a little to get some things to work. Reminds me of the old Dos days. Thats why there are options. I'm glad you like OSX. Its a great OS. But, I'd rather have Linux as it is. Each to his/her own.
I think this post's parent sums up exactly what others were posting about earlier with regards to much of the Linux community simply not getting 'it' when it comes to what people expect from a desktop.
Have you ever thought that the Linux community doesn't want to get it? I am only recently a Linux fan (less than a year) but I've already progessed to the point that I don't care that much if its market share grows. I (like many geeks I bet) like the fact the "running linux= you are a nerd" in the public eye.
We like to have "as OS for nerds, by nerds." I like the fact that I don't have to even WORRY about malware and viruses because my OS isn't popular. When people ask me what computer to buy, I don't say "buy a Dell and put Ubuntu on it." I tell them to "buy a Mac." Why? Because at least it isn't Windows, but I'd rather Mac deal with the problems of popularity rather than Linux.
I know that some people care about this (Gnome, KDE people at least) but I think that many Linux users are happy with what they have. I hope I get modded down for my honesty.
How is it easy for Ubuntu to solve? Buy the rights to MP3? That would cost a lot (per user I think) which doesn't jive with something given away for free.
Oh, you mean illegally include the mp3 codec with Ubuntu! That is only the easy route till you have your day in court. I know its a pain, but its that way for a reason. If you want, I can walk you through how to get this support in Ubuntu. Its pretty easy.
I hear you as a Debian user and a package whore. I had it explained to me once that in Debian each lib and dependancy have a package, while in Gentoo each ebuild is a whole program in some cases, dependancies and all. I could be wrong, and I would like to be corrected if I am.
Prime Time=presinstalled OS as an option on computers.
If that happened tomorrow (or yesterday at Wal-Mart) these problems go away.
They do a good job if you don't fill the disks to the brim. My ext3 disk only goes above 1% fragmentation when it is nearly full. When that happens, there is this defragger.
I'll tell you why I like the commandline: I can copy lines of commands that I don't understand off webpages and fix problems in Linux without having to read a bunch of GUIs.
I yeah....I guess I don't learn anything. You're right!
I would personally pay over $100 bucks for this.
Hello. I noticed that you will be undertaking a task I recently went through, putting Linux on an original iBook. That link has most of my experiance, but here is a quick summary:
For a good experiance in Ubuntu, at least 256mb of RAM is needed. You can get by with less if you are willing to hack and try other window managers, but if you want the nice integrated experiance you have to have at least that much ram. I have 300 in my iBook and it runs great. Better than the original OS in my opinion. But that Live CD might not run so well, as the iBook's cd drive is slow.
You will be happy to know that the Airport card works without a hitch. I use WEP and Wireless networking all day long. With this howto you can get the great Kismet to work.
PPC Linux lacks a real flash pluggin. There are free ones but they don't work so good (they require more CPU power than iBook has most of the time). Looking at broken puzzle pieces suck, so I use this extension and never click play.
But sure to check out the Ubuntu Guide, as most of the advice (everything cept windows codecs, those don't work) is the same for PPC. Also check out the PPC wiki.
Good luck and be sure to come to the forums if you need help.
A lot of work has been done on the sound.
Hello. I am a mod on the Ubuntu Forum and I run into that problem a lot. That means that the install CD you used was bunk. An OS is much more sensitive than a regular CD so try washing it off then reinstalling or burning a new install cd at lower speeds. Thanks for your time.
Now this isn't really fair. I'm like Mr. Ubuntu, but I admit that Fedora has some neat things that Ubuntu lacks currently. Xen, SE Linux, a graphical installer, a Usplash, among other things. Fedora is a good distro and does a good job of hammering out the most bleeding edge stuff before anyone else has too...
For future stuff sure. And now Mac does have a more 3 party drivers than Linux will have for a while.
Linux is not OS X. That should be all I had to say, but just to make it clear...
You are correct., despite some common ancestory they are very different. One is an nice and very modern OS that is meant to run on Apple hardware (and will do so in the future, sorry guys) and is probably the best desktop OS on the planet. Yet this greatness costs money. The other is a free and flexible OS that is great for servers and development work. Progress on the Linux desktop increases swiftly but it still lags behind other desktop OSes in key areas. Yet it runs on almost every personal computer you can get you hands on, unlike OSX.
Driver support in Linux sucks because developers have to write drivers from scratch using a crystal ball or hardware developers throw it together real quick to say they have it
Driver support sucks because the whole thing is semi-hostile to non open drivers and because it has too small of a marketshare to be worth developing for.
I'll answer your question n a Balmerish way:
OSX won't be on Dells officially because it lacks "drivers, drivers, drivers."
I mean, any Linux fan will tell you happens when you try to support every crap part in every crap x86 box out there. OSX does the magic it does because it only has to account for the exact hardware that Apple sells. You put OSX on Dell and it would run like crap (if it would run at all).
LOL!!! You must be kidding me! I love my open OSes but to say that BSD (or Linux, or Windows out of the box) even supports 50% of hardware out there is a longshot. So many damn, cheap webcams and wireless cards and sound cards and etc. till I could puke. You obviously haven't tried to install BSD on as a desktop on more than one or two systems!
Hey people, get it through your head!!!! There are too many x86 combinations out there for Apple to consider selling OSX for Dells. Isn't going to happen. Please deal with it so I can stop posting the same obvious stuff!
Like what? I always hear this "they can always just go to community college get a new job." But I know a lot of people who recently graduated in many different majors that can't find any job better than they could have had if they would not have gone to school. All of these people went to school at flagship public and private universities, and most of them had good grades. If they can't make it, what can some Joe at community college do?
Actually, I think most people that would have this attitude will just pirate OSX. In some parts of the internet, people trade whole 4 gig dvds like its an Mp3 or something.
Yep. It will get on their eventually, but it will not be a supported platform. Apple will probably defend OSX with its eager lawyer team....not with hardware lockouts.