Slashdot Mirror
Fedora Core 4 Available
Limburgher writes "As of a few minutes ago, the torrents listed at duke went live. Nothing on the main site yet, however. The more people get on the torrents, the faster they will be. You all know the drill." Update: 06/13 19:07 GMT by T : Also in Red Hat-related news, halfbyte_hosting writes "CentOS 4.1 is now on the mirrors and ready for download."
I actually just did a new dual-boot install of Fedora Core 4, and Windows XP, and found Fedora Core 4 (the beta is the one I installed this past weekend) about 10 times easier to install than Windows XP. It was incredibly easier to configure after the installation, also.
3 /ctl/ArticleView/mid/575/articleId/319/Dualbooting WindowsXPandLinux.aspx
s n-new-in-fc
Here is that commentary about my process (I am a first-time user of Linux):
http://www.mygadgetbag.com/MGBCommentary/tabid/18
Also, for anyone wondering, here is a link to the newest updates that are in Fedora Core 4:
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc4/#
I am very happy with Fedora Core 4 (beta) after using it for a few days. The only thing I am having trouble with is connecting to the Yum repositories, as described on the Fedora FAQ.
The main Fedora site is updated now, also!
Managed to snarf a copy over the weekend from an unsecured official mirror. Four CDs, each about 630MB.
Installed it onto my ThinkPad T23, 733MHz/1.13GHz with 512MB RAM. Familiar graphical installation procedure, auto-detected everything in my laptop. Didn't expect it not to, as previous Fedora Core releases did so. When setting up the soundcard though, couldn't hear the test sounds but booting into KDE produced the familiar jingle. SELinux option during installation is Enabled or Disabled, no halfway house as in FC3. Compiling with GCC4.0 has made a noticeable speed difference, especially in KDE 3.4. Start-up time seemed quicker as well.
As always, read the release notes. They have taken the decision to move some stuff off into the Fedora Extras project. XMMS was the main one I noticed. And yes, this being Red Hat-influenced, there is no support for MP3 or DVD playback straight off the installation discs.
If you have a Matrox-based card that requires you to use the Matrox-sourced mga_hal module, you're not going to have much luck configuring X until they release a new version for X.org 6.8.2. I get lovely vertical bars every 1cm on my TFTs using a G550 DVI.
I've got a fever and the only prescription is more COBOL.
So whats new
Makes me wonder, can a tracker be slashdotted ?
\u262D = \u5350
The release notes are here. Major changes include:
Is it easy to upgrade from FC1 to FC4? I have a semi-production server that's running on FC1, and I don't want a clean install.
This is not an off-topic question. The response to this question will make a legitimate point about the FC model.
Have the editors not learned from all the times they've done this and screwed up in the past?
:-)
You're ID 202812 yet you speak like it's your first time here
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/fedor a.redhat.com/linux/core/4/i386/iso/>r a.redhat.com/linux/core/4/i386/iso/ r a.redhat.com/linux/core/4/i386/iso/
n ux /core/4/>x /core/4/ x /core/4/
4 />
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/fedo
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/fedo
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/li
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linu
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linu
ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/fedora-core/4/
ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/fedora-core/
ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/fedora-core/4/
and many more....
dont wait for shitty slashdot to report on old news.
cuz nothin is older than the news of yesterday/yesterhour/yesterminute...
I have a email with a date/timestamp of 2005-06-13 15:36 (BST) officially announcing the availability of this release. This story is timestamped 16:11 (GMT), how are /. jumping the gun?
I've got a fever and the only prescription is more COBOL.
... what's the incentive of moving to moving to Fedora. I don't mean this as a troll - I like Fedora filling the gaps for people who didn't feel comfortable with Debian Unstable - but it feels to me like Debian's a bigger organization with more resources to handle more packages than Fedora. Especially since red hat left it. Is there reason to believe Fedora can continue competing without it's corportate ties?
The load times are definitely faster and it's nowhere near as dark all the time.
Torrent download rate before slashdot posted the story: 10 KB/s
After slashdotting: 145 KB/s (flirting with my max bandwidth)
Its on the main site now. They must have waited for /. to post it then they could make it official.
Thanks slashdot!
Try 2 hours ago.
There are those...
The installer couldn't cope with installing into an existing LVM VG which is a shame.
Switching from init 1 to init 5 requested the root password which was novel. I'll have to track down what that's all about.
jh
slashdot irresponsibly posts a link to a release before it's officially available. Have the editors not learned from all the times they've done this and screwed up in the past?
The problem was they broke the main distribution server: the mirrors hadn't gone live yet so everyone went to the main distribution server.
Here, they're linking to the torrents not a HTTP or FTP download page. That won't crash the Fedora project's server. So what's the problem? Don't you understand bittorrent?
...wait five minutes and Fedora Core 5 will be out.
Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
The tracker did not handle the masses of people going after him, it is upto now not accepting any conections. This shows that a trackless BitTorrent is really needed.
[]'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins
^[:wq
C'mon guys... mirrors.kernel.org is only pumping 1100 Mbit/s so far... plenty of bandwidth to spare :)
http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/4/
ftp://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/4/
rsync://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/4/
SELinux option during installation is Enabled or Disabled, no halfway house as in FC3.
You have the choice of running SELinux under either the targeted policy of the strict policy. I think targeted is what you are referring to as the "halfway house".
Targeted only confines certain daemons like Apache and BIND in SELinux domains, the rest of the system runs in an unconfined domain.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
http://www.linuxisotorrent.com/
http://www.linuxisotorrent.com/>
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/>
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/
get em torrenz there. dont wait for slashdot to deliver
no, because its a trademark (tm), not a patent.
I'm a ubuntu convert as well after seeing a couple friend's installs compared to when I was using FC3 at the time. I worked with FC3 for a couple months, and completely borked my install a couple times doing different things.
Ubuntu immediately has better support for wireless network settings (profiles!), which I need for school/home/etc. That and it isn't the hack of "you've changed your settings, now go restart your network service for settings to stick" type crap that Fedora was.
Oh god no. Thanks but no thanks!
Well, here we have it. YOU lost the driver disc, it is all YOUR fault!
If just Linux would have a system to recognise hardware and tell you what module to enable/compile, way more users would start using linux.
Throw away the driver discs, microsoft doesn't make the drivers, the least they can do is provide them with their os.
*windows installer is great! Too bad you have to go trough it every 6 months.
Whoever marked this insightful should be shot on sight.
If you make any comparisons which cross the above boundaries, you are either trolling or have a fundamental misunderstanding of what you are discussing and should reald up before posting.
Have you tried the NetworkManager? It is amazing and beats the crap out of the profile managed network that I saw in Ubuntu. It requires exactly 0 clicks to configure when using a wired network and a few clicks while using the wireless configuration (you still need to choose what net you want to join and configure the keys when it is protected).
I believe that desktop-fedora will walk toward the NetworkManager while the old static configuration would be more fitted to servers that do need static configs anyway.
On the other hand, NetworkManager is not ready, yet, it still don't configure NTP automaticly for instance.
[]'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins
^[:wq
OpenSolaris is coming out at the end of June. OpenSolaris is basically Solaris 10 in source code form. The license is the CDDL which is basically the Mozilla Public License with restrictions removed .
http://www.opensolaris.org/faq/licensing_faq.html
Anyone can create an OpenSolaris distro, in fact the guy who created cdrecord for linux (Joerg Schilling) is creating one called SchilliX.
http://schillix.berlios.de/
The great thing about OpenSolaris is that it is the opensourcing of Solaris 10 which means it has all the features and stability of that Operating system. It also has features that Fedora Core or linux don't have.
An example is DTrace. With DTrace, one can specify sensors in Solaris 10 and monitor everything. Even user programs.
You also have Zones in OpenSolaris which are like BSD jails, but are easier to maintain and create. Linux has user mode linux, but that is cumbersome compared to Zones.
SMF in OpenSolaris is questionable in benefit, but it allows services to be restarted automatically if they fail. Not something I'm interested in, but some people may like it.
But if you are unhappy with the bleeding edge of Fedora Core, give OpenSolaris a look when it comes out later this month.
The USPTO registration number is 1916230.a tion&entry=1916230&action=Request+Status
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=registr
(Note: the mentioned William Della Croce is someone who fraudulently attempted to register Linux as a trademark; he got sued and transferred the trademark to Linus as part of settling the lawsuit.)
Typed Drawing
Word Mark LINUX
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer operating system software to facilitate computer use and operation. FIRST USE: 19940802. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19940802
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74560867
Filing Date August 15, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition June 13, 1995
Change In Registration CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED
Registration Number 1916230
Registration Date September 5, 1995
Owner (REGISTRANT) Croce, William R. Della, Jr. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 33 Snow Hill St. Boston MASSACHUSETTS 02113
(LAST LISTED OWNER) TORVALDS, LINUS INDIVIDUAL Assignee of FINLAND 5774 CANNES PLACE SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA 95138
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record ROBERT T. DAUNT
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
I've been running FC4 (actually Rawhide, the equivalent of Debian unstable) on a Mac mini / Hitachi PJXT100 (yes, my computer is 16cm, my screen is 4m) for a few months here. Bluetooth Apple mouse and keyboard too. A pretty weird hardware setup. Everything works reliably.
In particular, OpenOffice 2 rocks. In FC it comes as individual packages for each app - ie, I get by with openoffice-core, openoffice-writer, and the English language package. In Ubuntu, I have to install and, worse, update a few massive packages.
Gnome does cool stuff. Like never stealing focus. An app wants focus, it pulses in the task bar. As it should be.
Extras now works well, it's easy to get a package into Fedora and there's a lot of useful stuff available. The days of having to go to freshrpms and dag wieers to find your app are numbered - FC4, FC Extras, and Livna for the patented stuff will satisfy most people. Other distros never had this problem, but other distros still don't have decent config tools, and other distros don't install menu items when they install GUI apps. Yes, this means you Debian.
There's a non-poo directory server that has proper ACL support (unlike OpenLDAP, where they were kept outside the directory), multimaster replication. etc as part of the distro. Combine it with JXplorer and you've got a decent Open Source LDAP server.
Off topic: once installed, OOo 2 is the first version I'd say would be on par with MS Office. The toolbars are decent - they no longer take up an entire row, and can be edited and docked together at will, like you damn well expect. Spell check can count selections. Floating docks becomes sidebars. And, surprisingly, it can work with MS Offices proprietary XML files. All the usual OOo features are still there
Other nice things about recent Fedoras:
FC3 and newer: Partitioning uses LVM by default. Online resizing is supported. Ext3 has signficant speed improvements, bechmarks favorably against Reiser, and unlike Reiser, works properly with SELinux.
FC3 but expanded in FC4: SELinux is enabled by default. For example, Apache is prevented from reading files who don't have the 'web content' context, and cgi scripts can't access particular device files without the right context either. If someone breaks into apachge, the chances of them going further than breasking into your web site are limited.
One note: while yum is getting better, I don't use it. Instead, I use Smart Package Manager. A command line and GUI tool from the author of apt-rpm and Synaptic, that replaes both those tools, and works with Yum metadata repositories. It's faster (downloads in parallel from each source), has a better GUI, and simpler error messages than yum and apt (no 'but version foo will be installed'-without-any-explanation type stuff).
heh, there might be other choices out there, SuSE Pro works much more nicely on my desktop & laptop than RedHat or Federo 1 &2 ever did. Mobile wireless with RH or FC sucks too.
Yeah RedHat benefits but the users benefit too in that they get to try out all the latest and greatest software in a convenient package. RHEL is more stable but it's certainly not on the cutting edge. People have different priorities. And those other distros are nice but the great thing about linux is that each distro has its own style. Some people like fedora's style better than mandriva's, for example.
XFCE has been moved to extras.
It's funny to see how a lightweight yet potentially pretty WM wouldn't be the first choice for producing a desktop OS. Why not include it with the distro?
The easy part was getting the brain out, but the hard part was getting the brain out.
And Debian takes 15! That's like 3-4 times less! Anyone known what's missing from Fedora? Or does it just use better compression?
Magnet URI for Azeurus if you don't want to actually download the torrent file....FC4 i386 binary
L DW 32
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3QYOKFWIML7MWVELF36AWWW3VTV
I want to know what hardware Fedora supports. Like which RAID controllers, Ehternet cards, video cards, and Etc are supported. Where do I find this information at?
Is there a list out there somewhere that is easy to look this up on or do I have to dig around for every little piece?
I checked the Fedora FAQ and nothing popped out as a definitive list. Just base hardware requirements.
Thanks
Something that's not mentioned -- this is the first release of Fedora Core with the "Extras" repository enabled by default. Fedora Extras is a volunteer packaging project of various software not in Core, and is currently providing additional 1,000 packages ready to install just by running "yum install foo."
If you don't see your favorite package in Extras, you can always become a contributor yourself.
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
Now this isn't really fair. I'm like Mr. Ubuntu, but I admit that Fedora has some neat things that Ubuntu lacks currently. Xen, SE Linux, a graphical installer, a Usplash, among other things. Fedora is a good distro and does a good job of hammering out the most bleeding edge stuff before anyone else has too...
Open Source Sushi
The last time i have tries Fedora it was really poor about multimedia... I know about patent problems, but i could barely play an mp3 with the crappy helix player from Real let's not even talk about playing an (undencrypted!) DVD!!!!! I think that been able to play most widespread audio and video formats (with Xine or Mplayer) should be a key point for a moder linux distro.
Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
The devs care alot about the users and they spend quite a bit of resources working with the users and making sure that Fedora follows an effective Human Interface Guideline. Things just work in Fedora, everything integrates well. Red Hat is essentially saying that if it is good enough for Fedora then it is good enough for their Enterprise customers. Trust me, use it and you'll see. Anyone that talks about unstability in Fedora Core most likely hasnt used it all, or for long periods of time.
Regards,
Steve
I suggest you read their About page and Objectives page. FC exists as the "basis" for their commercial products. FC is not a "test bed" as you call it.
The packages they release are quite stable and are no more buggy than any other distribution. It's not anything like running Debian unstable/testing (which I did for several years before switching to FC).
That's insightful? Moderators, and the poster above: have you ever done a full install of Windows XP and Fedora?
Could you explain to me how Windows XP could possibly be easier?
1. The Windows installer starts as a 32 bit command line application for partitioning, EULA, loading driver disks, with a reboot into a GUI once a base install happens. It uses F8 and F5 to do things. Fedora uses 'next'. Windows is getting a full GUI installer in Longhorn when WinPE comes out. It doesn't have one now.
2. The Windows XP installer asks for many more than 3 inputs. You forgot partitioning, EULA agreement, that disk thing I mentioned above, and a bunch of other stuff. The things you did mention are weird - eg, I select my time zone by scrolling through a drop down list box of time zones sorted by GMT offset. Not even geography. Not even FC4 'click where you are on this map'.
3. The defaults are a lot less secure too - non non admin user, Run As doesn't work for all programs, the firewall lets in ports where known worms live by default (see the Register analysis of SP2 for a complete list). Obviously, there's no MAC implementation enabled by default either (SELinux). And most network services still run as SYSTEM. So post-install you're either gonna have to lock it down, or fix up the mess.
http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ is the alternate RHEL distro.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
Mad Penguin published a "progress" review of FC4 not too long ago and it was a pretty good read.
I used FC4-test3 for about a month just for testing purposes, and from the few hours I have used FC4-final, it doesn't look there are that many significant changes. The Release Notes and the "Installation Guide" are pretty good starting resources for some issues.
... As a personal choice, I installed GCC3.4 to /opt and found it useful to keep a second compiler around for now. ... If anything, I imagine that many OSS projects will be forced to start looking into supporting GCC4.
One major trouble I had was GCC4, playing around I found that many had problems compiling under GCC4, so I am wondering if many of the repositories (when they come online) will compile with GCC4 or GCC3.x?
As for speed and amazing things, not much really. I did notice that ACPI worked great on my A7V8X-X, which had been bugging me from FC2,3. I don't know how "amazing" the newer Gnome, OOo and other updates are.
SELinux took a huge enhancement and is integrated much tighter. No doubt some will find this annoying, but should be easy to disable.
I was disappointed some things moved to 'Extras' (xmms,xfce), but that's not necessarily bad. I would hate to have 6 cd's to download instead of 5.
Overall okay release so far. I'm sure there will be plenty of issues soon to arrive! There are some general installation notes I have on my website.
Linux Resources
The more people get on the torrents, the faster they will be
That's not true. The more people get on the torrent, actually it could get slower if those people are uploading at very low speeds. To increase speed they will have to finish the download first and stay seeding.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
I've been running FC2 & 3 on my Dell 600m and it has never worked 'right'. Thermal/power management have been a pain to setup and never really work properly, and USB device management has always been a pain.
Does anyone who has been running the Beta's know if the laptop support is better?
The average download rate of a torrent is pretty much independant of the number of downloaders -- that's what's so neat about it. (Compare to downloading via ftp or http -- double the number of downloaders, and you half the average download rate, assuming that you're out of bandwidth in the first place.)
If you've got a torrent being seeded by some fast sites, then adding new downloaders on cable modems (fast download, slow upload) will generally slow the average download down rather than speed it up. But it won't slow down to almost nothing, which is what happens if thousands of people are hitting a ftp or http server ...
Now, if people who are downloading leave their BT clients running after they're done downloading, then the average download rates (of those still downloading, that is) will go up, as there will be more sites seeding at that point.
But in general, merely having more people using BT to download something will not make the average download rates go up. BT is way cool -- don't get me wrong -- I love it. But it's not magic ...
Yes, it works. The installer has an upgrade mode. You can also use yum (or smart, or whatever) to move between versions. Contrary to the poster above, it's supported. Post on the mailing lists or the forums and you'll get help. But it's not recommended.
Doing a new install is recommended to see the shiny new defaults Eg, things like LVM partitioning.
If you're cool with that, upgrade with the installer. If you want to keep your server online during the upgrade, you can even do that, but that's least recommended...
The reason: the installer does other things than just install new packages. Eg, in FC3 and 4, LVM1 metadata is upgraded to LVM2. In older releases upgrading Ext2 disks to Ext3.
If you understand this, upgrading with yum and then doing such changes yourself works fine.
I've never actually rebooted when it says that. I'm also pretty certain it says you "might" have reboot for some applications, rather than flat out telling you to reboot. At most I've only ever had to restart an application, but that's pretty reasonable considering your changes may have just closed a bunch of active connections.
...Has had the ISOs for four days. take that Duke!
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Have fun finding the bugs.
By contrast, my (pretty old) laptop, which was broken by both Debian Sarge and older FC releases, installed and ran Ubuntu flawlessly.
In the interests of curiosity and fairness I'm getting this new FC release. But mostly for fun.
I used RH9 and fedore in the past, I know all about that. I do have my own opinion however; fedora (from the links you just posted) will be released 2-3 times a year, and have like others posted here what I would consider "bleeding edge" software. It's quite obvious that RedHat uses the fedora project as a way to get input from a large number of beta testers. (well not beta testers per say, but you get it) Whats stable and solid and good in fedora after a while trickles down to RHEL. Supposedly this is good for everybody, but I think RedHat gains a lot more from this then you do. It's just my opinion. (sheesh, is slashdot always like that? first post, just voiced an opinion and specificly said I'm not trying to flame and got bad karma right away because I dared to say that I don't like the distro of your choice)
I believe that Whitebox Linux has gone stagnant and has mostly been replaced by CentOS.
sorry but ubuntu being neat and novel (no root password or logins) it certianly is not as useful as Mandrake or Fedora.
Call me when ubuntu is not putting things willy nilly in the filesystem and actually adhering to a standard. (not like fedora adhere's to anyone standard but their own... the downfall of linux, ther are one of 70 different places your config files and apps install to depending on what distro you are using.)
bittorent is for those who dont'wanna wait for the ftp's 2b updated.. ok?
it's not for everyone and it's defenitely not for those that are even more anxious than those that use bittorent!!
My experience with torrent is it is VERY slow in the beggining, but when everyone climes on (like obviously alllot will taday), the service really starts to pic-up.
Just think of the possitive.. while your waiting for it to speedup, you can troll summore here ;)
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
fc4 is cool (i'm in in fc3, still downloading torrents), but it's being released before the whole fedora foundation thing gets into action, so the old limits related to red hat mean it can't be shipped, sorry distributed, with mp3 codecs, flash plugin, java etc...
However, next time, FC5 will be a true (almost) community distrubition, independant of it's Red Hat uncle. This means we should be able to include mp3 codecs etc. Of course, Fedora still aims to be a community Linux distribution to create an operating system entirely from free software. We might have GPLflash or GPLjava in 9 months (longer development cycle now) for fc5.
Centos (www.centos.org) is a great replacement for RHEL. I find it's more active than whitebox.
The latest release for WBEL4 was in May 2005. It is the equivalent of RHEL4.
CentOS also looks like a good alternative.One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
Here's a tutorial on how to install Windows XP (with screenshots). If you're a new user and you happened to miss that F6 message and don't have your SATA driver disk or something (or don't even know to press F6 since it only mentions to press that key for SCSI drivers), get stuck partitioning your hard disk, or don't know how to install drivers for all the devices Windows XP didn't detect, you'll have a hard time, but these aren't problems in installing Linux.
Well paint me stupid. I hadn't checked the WBEL site in a long time. I thought that it had died. :)
My issue with going to something based on Red Hat Enterprise is that its not really good for the desktop. The 2 year life cycle of RHEL means that you have to live 2 years with a particular software release. RHEL3 was frozen in summer 2003 so its essentially a RH9 release with a few updates. So software like Evolution, Mozilla, Open Office are essentially locked into the version released prior to summer 03. Since these products are getting updates in functionality every 3-5 months, you really lose out. Fedora has had three major releases in the same time RHEL has been stuck on 3. So with Fedora, you are getting the additional functionality.
Enterprise is not meant for the desktop but I agree that Fedora often is too quick to release fixes. I've had more than my fair share of issues with bug fixes creating new bugs. As for stability Fedora is not perfect but its better than losing out on 2 years of additional functionality.
I've installed XP on about 40 computers with SATA drives, including my desktop at work and desktop at home. I have never, not even once, needed a driver disk for the install. Some were done with the Gateway XP media, some with a volume SP2 sliptream disc, some with a normal XP disc.
So, uhhh, not sure what you're doing or what controler you are using, but the SATA chips on 865/875 motherboards seem to need to additonal driver.
That should take but about 10000 minutes.
7 days??? That's the best you could come up with? :-)
I am new to the whole "computers" scene, and I am wondering if this "Redhat Fedora Core Linux 4" will run on my windows. I am running windows 98. Will I have to upgrade to windows XP if I want to use "Redhat Fedora Core Linux 4"? Or will I have to wait for microsoft longhorn before I can run it on my computer. Also, does it work with my flat screen monitor?
After the one week delay of the Fedora Core 4 release, I made the choice to switch from Fedora Core 3 to Ubuntu. Installed it on my laptop in less than 25 minutes. I must say that is it better for normal desktop computing (and a couple of games).
All hardware was recognized out of the box. Was able to configure my wireless chipset with ndiswrapper without much effort. I also like the insane amount of packages available in Ubuntu's repositories and who doesn't love Debian based package management? Almost everything you need is also in one central location. (I do applaud the efforts of 3rd-party repos)
I will install FC_4 on my new desktop on another partition only because Fedora adopts and includes the newest of technology (GCC 4.0, Xen, SELinux, etc.)
My biggest gripe with the distro is the non-availability of upgrading with yum and not being able to get some mono based apps working.
Others complaign about the lack of multimedia support but all of that can be easily configured. I understand the decision not to include mp3 and dvd support.
I used Fedora Core on the desktop for around a year starting with Core 2 but I want a stable and less bleeding edge distro for the desktop and Ubuntu does the job.
Also, as many people suggest do not use Fedora on a production server. This distro evolves to fast for that environment. Use CentOS (if you prefer Red Hat) or Debian instead.
Don't get me wrong, Fedora is an attractive distro
for all purposes, and I like it's bleeding edge nature but in around 4-5 months support for FC_3 will start to vanish and leaving users no option but to upgrade. I rather have the 18 month support of Ubuntu.
Guess it just goes to show that not all are as "worldly" as life with the Internet suggests. It's a shame that we still have to see these kinds of attitudes walking around.
The only good thing about it is it's very obvious when you run into it, so you know with whom you are talking to.
You're ID 650429 yet you speak like this is the first time you've seen a troll on /. before.
I wonder if this release has better support for installing to SATA drives. FC3 choked on my nForce3 SATA controller, and I didn't feel like mucking around with a newer kernel at the time.
William Della Croce Is this the same guy that was executed in Steven King's "The Green Mile?"
BAH! Children these days.
Can anyone tell me what the difference between the "FC4-i386-discX.iso" and "FC4-i386-SRPMS-discX.iso" is? I'm anxious to download, but I am not sure which, and don't want to waste time.
Thanks,
Inject.
Is RPM working yet, or does it still just tell you the .so or .o that it needs, without telling you the last known name and version number of the RPM in which the library can be found?
.dll hell in the most popular version of the OS I keep touting to people. Friends tell me, "Yeah, I tried it. It's impossible to install software." It kills me when I know it can be better. Not trying to evoke a holy war, but .debs include the last known name and version of the .deb(s) on which they depend.
.rpm is not my primary package type).
I'm being a little facetious, but I have the dubious task of being an unofficial maintainer (ie: it's my responsibility to make them go, but I have no authority to change the OS) of a handful of SuSE ES 9 and RH EL 3 machines. Yast and rc are nice, but it seems a little backward to have to connect to a remote server to discover the meaningful (ie: the actual package and version I should be looking for) dependencies for a package I already have on the local machine. It's a little frustrating to see
Or is there something I'm missing in RPM that does tell me these answers (entirely possible -
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Three?
What about the text-mode partition/formating tool, which in the case I didn't say it, it's in text mode? (exactly what people has been saying for years about linux, except that most of linux distros have a graphic configuration tool for that)
I also remember asking me stupid details of the NIC (set the IP, etc), the product key and asking you to register the product the first time you really boot on it, and since SP2, it asks you to enable the firewall and/or windows update.
Yes, windows installer doesn't asks you many things. It asks you so few things, that it doesn't asks you if you want to overwrite your MBR. If not asking you permission to do that means being "easier", I (and some of my friends who install linux and know nothing about compters) do like the "complex" linux installers more, thanks.
Do they still cripple the KDE libs? I'd like to try Fedora, but its GNOME-centric nature annoys me.
Ubuntu is neat, but they have some issues to iron out first.
First off, about half of their system configuration tools broke/crashed/didn't work as advertised. There aren't enough of them, either. How could they ship without an X config tool!? What if I switch monitors, and Ubuntu can't autodetect? "Edit xorg.conf" is not an acceptable answer here.
Second, the much yakked about Syaptic's UI and interaction model is so bad I'd almost rather explain the yum CLI to people than torture them with Synaptic.
Ubuntu seems very cool, and I was impressed by some of what I saw when I tried 5.04, but I don't think it's at all fair to say it's hands-down better for the desktop than Fedora in any way.
The Free desktop that Just Works
KDE3.4, udev, OOo1.9.xxx
Oh well, what the hell...
Never had any problems with my nForce2 board, it has always worked flawlessly whitout any problems. The only thing was that windows 98 demanded lots of reboots, and manually removal of some drivers when I upgraded to the nForce board. Nothing unexpected there, the Mandrake install only informed me of the hardware changes. Users of older 2.4 kernels (Debian?) and 2.2, may have problems becouse they lack the forcedet(sp) network driver. It's in the 2.6 kernels and backported to the later 2.4 series I think. Besides you can also use the nvidia provided network driver, since already you use the graphics driver there are no reason not to.
No, you are an ass.
Does anybody know more about the improved boot time in Fedora? How quickly does it boot compared to FC 1/2/3 and an average (not freshly installed) Windows XP?
I used to use Ubuntu until I discovered that once they do a release they issue only security fixes for 18 months. They might issue a bug fix if it is a huge problematic bug but that's it for bug fixes. Fedora, on the other hand, has constant updates during it's lifetime. Granted, it is only a 9 month life but it is constantly being fixed throughout its life.
Your comments implied that FC is basically betaware and that FC users are being 'used' by Redhat as free testers...I'm not sure what exactly gives you that impression. Nothing is FC is what I would deem to be 'bleeding edge' (which impies a risk to the user) by any stretch of the phrase. But I also wouldn't go so far as to call it mature or tried and true either.
/.
Point is, FC makes a great desktop dist. No futzing around with config files, recompiling the kernel, etc. It just works. It's up to date, offers a very friendly user experience and is very stable.
That being said....
Welcome to
Who is just trolling?
Try installing XP on any motherboards made within the last 4 years. Then tell me your results vs. a current Linux distro on that hardware. Without third party discs.
Way to go, moderators. U R SMRT!
Btw- ever heard of Knoppix?
Well thanks for the welcome. :)
I don't mean "bleeding edge" as in "implies risk to the user" - what I do mean is that the RHEL standards are quite high, I don't think you will find the newest packages in it, but rather things that proved they stand the test of time so to speak.
But hey, if fedora works for you then by all means use it.
Sorry for not being clear in my post before, too bad I got a bad karma point, thats just bad luck. hehe.
Sun has said they will release quote-unquote Open Solaris at some point in the future.
Nov. 15, 2004, they said 60 days.
March, 2005 they said 90 days.
Why should anybody wait for Sun to get their act together?
Well I happen to be installing SUSE Pro 9.3 at the moment on my IBM Thinkpad T30.
Through the installatino procedure, right after asking me what password I wanted to use for root it then asked me my networking information, and immediately attached to a nearby SUSE patch server to download all the latest updates.
This is before the first boot...now my definition of first boot is when it comes up and says 'i'm yours' and asks me some simple registration questions.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
FC3 did udev too... which BTW creates a lot of problems if you run VMWare.
Annually, and it's the same as WS (updates, packages, etc), just with no support.
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
No, it doesn't alter the comparison, because it requires extra work, but it's awesome.
/
http://www.btsunattended.net/Projects/DriverPacks
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
We need more seeds, Scotty!
I'm givin' you all she's got, Captain!
Well, I guess I'm doing my part. Working for an ISP in Liberty Lake, WA my torrent upload rate is pretty steady at around 650KB/s. I'll leave this thing on for a while for you all.
So, anyone out there upgrade his or her Myth box yet? Thoughts, if so?
adam b.
And it's a better setup with most things. Nvidia drivers, for one. Kaffeine is loaded by default.
I'm glad Novell bought them out.
There's no denying that there are times when a Linux installation needs "tweaking" after installation to get everything working. The reasons for this are many depending on the situation with a particular component. I've run into a variety myself and while there are moments when it's simply frustrating regardless of the root cause, I have grown to accept that the problem exists and that it's simply getting better.
You can thank Microsoft for a lot of issues relating to drivers and availability. Turns out a lot of code for these drivers are being held hostage under an NDA. But it's not only Microsoft. Many hardware makers get their drivers from other sources who restrict the use of the source code as well. That has been a big and common problem especially in light of the fact that a good deal of a "hardware product" functionality is actually written into the driver rather than being implemented by the hardware. The net result is that your hardware expires the moment the manufacturer decides to stop supporting the OS you want to use... worse, when you want to upgrade and the MFG does not want to update driver software to support the new OS and simply leave you out in the cold to buy new hardware when you want to run the latest OS.
One could blame "crappy hardware choice" but that would be blaming the consumer for being a typical consumer... not a fair charge really. But there is a lot to say about researching the stuff you're buying and planning to implement. This is not only in the PC world either. Let's say you want to buy an after market AC unit for your car. You might have problems if you don't do your homework first -- you might need to upgrade your alternator or other aspects of the electrical system.
To say that "Linux pisses me off" is a little disappointing. I am not blaming you for your bad attitude in the least, but rest assured that I have seen a lot of change where Linux and hardware support is concerned but there's still a long way to go. I look forward to ACPI that is fully supported on laptops where it matters the most... suspend to RAM or DISK would be great if it would work... damned video driver needs to be fixed.
All of that said, I still prefer Linux. It's my "home" and it'll take a lot to tear me away from it.
From what I can tell on the OpenOffice site, OO 2.0 is NOT OUT YET (they indicate 2.0 beta 1.9.m104. Any thoughts on this?
No, won't run on XP, at least not well. The codecs don't match up properly. Those should be updated in Long Windows Horn when it's released by MS in 2008. And good luck trying to get it to work with the flat screen! I've heard that the electrons spin the wrong way for Linux to run with a flat screen, especially in XP. You're going to need a converter for that, buddy!
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
This was the only thing that has kept me from switching to the *nixes I have installed the last three years (Mandrake, FC3, FreeBSD). After looking in a few forums, trying a couple drivers, and generally not hearing anything for a few days, I booted Windows instead. If this is somehow supported in the default FC4 install, that'll most splendidly make my day. That said, any tips to make this work would be highly appreciated...
My mirror has still lots of bandwidth left. Feel free to use it, especially when you are in Europe.
-Yenya
--
While Linux is larger than Emacs, at least Linux has the excuse that it has to be. --Linus
Lucky for me, I grabbed my copy of CentOS 3 yesterday. I have a feeling all those mirrors are going to be slow for a while.
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
After the initial 9 month life, it moves to fedora legacy where it continues to be maintained as long as the community is willing to maintain it (ideally 2-3 years) and so far this has been working out really nice.
Regards,
Steve
(the extremely rare Soundblaster Live! card)
I got one of those. Doesn't work completely right in Linux (Mandrake 10) or Windows, though sort of works in both. The Soundblaster Live is a piece of crap.
Is there an 'upgrade' method of sorts that isn't hellish to adhere to, or is my better option a complete re-install?
The only good thing about it is it's very obvious when you run into it, so you know with whom you are talking to.
Yup, I agree with you and the grandparent. Naming a Linux distro "Ubuntu", and having a logo that looks like it's from some P.C. government tax-sponsored project, should set off every alarm imaginable.
Ubuntu might be good technically, but its self-chosen public image is despicable. People don't want their technology to be associated with niggers or Africa.
I heard otherwise.
I heard "Redhat Fedora Core Linux 4" was specfically designed for windows 98, but could also run on xp and longhornay.
the direction of the electrons is not a problem i guess. i would worry more about the BSOD not displaying properly. this was a problem in fedora core 3, but i am sure since core 4 supports more windows, i am sure they did a good job on supporting the display of BSOD's on flat panels as well.
good luck.
Wouldn't that be one hour, 58 minutes ago?
Join Tor today!
Please define "crippled" in this case.
The probability of me installing this over MDK10.2//2005 LE which I STILL haven't switched to approaches zero, but I'm sure many folks would be curious.(mythtv/mysql not talking, and 10.1 works fine, + lazy)
MDk10.1 has always worked VERY well for me, and urpmi tools always seem to work far better than apt or yum. YMMV.
An unoffical i386 mirror I set up for Fedora Core 4. http://www.linuxfiles.info/
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I'm moving all of our development machines (running FC) and servers (running RedHat) to Centos. I got fed up with the terrible bandwidth available to RedHat up2date users (for $350 per machine per year I expect to get the bandwidth I need to update infrequently) and the lack of cheap centralised mangement.
With Centos (and other apt/yum based clones) I can set up a local repository and save the network the trouble.
I'm getting 404s on all the links on the duke torrent page.
Anyone else having problems?
I must say, when I tried to do a system update of Ubuntu, using the included package-manager frontend, the thing died on me. I could get to the login screen, but none of the window managers would load. Instead X.org just died and restarted.
I like Ubuntu, but I'm giving Fedora Core a chance after this last experience.
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but since the DVD version is not available yet - can I create my own simply by copying all of the relevant files from the individial .isos into one big one?
Okay, but what about the DVD-R ISO? I'd much rather burn this thing to a single DVD-R than burn it to 5 CD-Rs.
Melissa
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
this brings up a valid question... Does WINE support BSOD? 9x & NT modes?
If you need to use TeX, BLAS or other things normally used in a research environment, it makes a lot of sense.
Don't cheap out and tinker with toys, get an Apple and leave your parent's basement once in a while.
LOL!
Errr, no. Drivers are a piece of shite, card isn't. And it DOES work fine in Windows btw, 5.1 works, sound is decent and you don't even have to recompile your f+in kernel. It doesen't work right in linux cuz sound is a mess in linux. I have nforce onboard 5.1 and sb live 5.1 and guess what, I tried a distrowatch of distros and I am yet to hear a non-ear-offending sound out of either one of them on linux.
Just finished downloading the DVD iso and burned to a disk. When I boot up the PC with the disk in the drive and press enter at the boot prompt, I immediately get a kernel panic. I don't think that this is ready for prime time. I will be returning to FC3.
And read the replies - the info in both of those links is false. And was proven to be with +5 moderated replies when you linked to them.
Fedora...no feasable upgrade path from beta releases. Use stable versions and it's fine.
Debian vs Fedora as a server:
If you want paid support till 2011, buy a support contract for RHEL. Yes, people support Debian too. But none are as large as Red Hat. You'd be better off comparing RHEL with SLES in this regard.
Debian vs Fedora as a desktop:
Debian vs Fedora on Slashdot:
Seriously. I have a bunch of mates that use Debian (well, Ubuntu these days) and they're all great guys and very clever admins who use Debian opn servers for their own, good, reasons. But Slashdot Debian users: stop fucking doing this like the above every time there's a Fedora story. We don't do it in Debian stories. It makes Debian and its users look really, really, bad.
would that have been a SATA RAID array perhaps?
I've never needed SATA drivers for a clean install or even when swapping a ATA drive for a SATA drive containing a ghost image of the ATA drive.
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
I got one of those. Doesn't work completely right in Linux (Mandrake 10) or Windows, though sort of works in both.
Funny, I used a SB Live! under Linux for a couple years (mainly because of the SPDIF output). The emu10k1 drivers are extremely well documented.. I never had a single problem.
What a "piece of crap" card! ^^
-deep
Is this the first time they've done a release with MD5s? I'm not sure, but I seem to remember all the last releases they've included MD5s. Now it looks like they're just releasing SHA1 hashes.
Be nice if they included both, but I guess the time is nigh to move to SHA, or something.
Hello. I am a mod on the Ubuntu Forum and I run into that problem a lot. That means that the install CD you used was bunk. An OS is much more sensitive than a regular CD so try washing it off then reinstalling or burning a new install cd at lower speeds. Thanks for your time.
Open Source Sushi
Hello! Are you moderators sleeping or what?!
Does anyone know if the new Fedora release supports the SIS965L southbridge chipset required for SATA support?
Also, what about the support for the SIS 190/900 ethernet?
I think Linux is a good OS but it really needs a better device driver management layer. Linux needs to come with a facility for easily adding in and removing device drivers without requiring kernel compilation (and by implication, expecting the kernel source code to be present on the machine).
Yes, I am aware of loadable device drivers (using insmod, modprobe etc), but I am not talking about those.. I am talking of device drivers which I can obtain directly from the vendor in binary form without getting one binary driver for each sub point release of the kernel.
As it stands, if I want to install a device driver for a new hardware, I will first need to download the kernel source, and compile the kernel after selecting the device driver during the kernel configuration. If the device driver is not part of the kernel source, I will need to get the device driver source corresponding to the kernel release and then compile it (after munging around with some settings).
This is, ofcourse, far from ideal.
Really, every last one of your comments could be made about any of the "bleeding edge" distros, and that covers pretty much EVERY desktop distribution out there - Ubuntu is bleeding edge, they have the same twice a year release schedule as fedora, mandriva and suse don't release quite as often, but they're still very recent and potentially unstable compared to their "enterprise" editions. I don't even go to non-release based debian testing/unstable, gentoo and the likes. But that's not a bad thing, quite to the contrary, "bleeding edge" software is a good thing, as long as we stay in certain limits - these distros may include recent releases of software, but they ARE still releases, nobody is packaging stuff from CVS - since while it may occasionally be bit more unstable, it also has the latest and niftest features everyone has been craving for ages.
I hate to be the devils advocate, but fedora is being used as a test bed by redhat for stuff it wants to add to RHEL.
Nobody would deny that Fedora is beneficial to RHEL, but it's not ONLY a test bed, and that doesn't make it any less usable. They just have very different focus and user group, RHEL is a server distro, and it absolutely needs to be stable, and can't afford to include anything that hasn't been tested for years, Fedora is a desktop distro, and while stability is still important, it's less so, so they can important things that are only few months old and can be deemed reasonably stable.
Basically, you are all testing potentially buggy software
I'm doing that whatever distro I'm running if I want to keep newest shiny toys.
and redhat benfit from it.
I don't see anything wrong with they benefiting from it, it's only fair to help whoever went to the trouble of making the thing, if for nothing else to get the thing fixed in the next release - and it will get fixed upstream too, and help benefit EVERYONE, not just redhat. Beside, I WANT them to benefit, if RH ever goes out of business, Free software loses a major contributor and plenty of hackers who can now concentrate on what they like will be forced to find a new day job and only work on whatever scraps of free time they have left. If someone doesn't care a jack about that... well, don't file bug reports, RH won't even know you're using it, hardly benefits anyone much.
I used to use RH9, but when they started the fedora thing I went looking else where...
Well, that's your loss. RHL was a testbed for the enterprise release too, you know, why did you use them? You might want to consider for a moment if anything has really changed, and if you're just having a bad case of kneep jerk reaction.
if you like fedora why not get white linux (I think that's the name), its basically RHEL rebranded and given out for free.
Why not? Well, how about because Fedora is better for home user than RHEL. I don't care if it crashes few times a year if that's balanced by having much all the new features that won't be in RHEL clones until after several years.
Personally I don't think fedora is that great for regular desktop use, ubuntu or mandriva or suse are IMHO have more of the users intrest in mind.
Really, why's that? Again, everything you said is true for those as well.
(please don't flame me, I realize redhat contribute a lot of code and time and funds)
You just made a flamebait, why shouldn't you be flamed for that? But I'll try and not to, everything in that has been given reasons for, unlike your rant.