That's the ethical argument. But the practical argument is even more conclusive: do you genuinely believe that if the US nuked Mecca and Medina that all Muslims (or non-Muslims) who currently hate the US would just shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well, we had a good run of it, but I guess there's nothing left to fight for any more. I'll just be moving along to pacifism now. Thanks for a good game, mate."?
No- I think it would spawn one of three responses, depending on the person:
1. Atheism- because God let the Holy Cities be destroyed, some young people would be quick to suggest that the whole religion is a bunch of hogwash and that Mohammed was at best a good general and at worst a con artist. 2. It would be the start of attracting those who do hate the United States to our ports of entry, where we could easily exterminate them IF we pair it with a reasonable border security policy (note, this is where the whole plan falls down currently- there are some very powerfull business interests that are against border secuirty in the United States) 3. It would be a good start to an invasion of Saudi Arabia- as they're dealing with the deaths we could take over conclusively and put an end to this dangerous nonsense about a "Nation of Islam" built on "Koranic Justice".
Don't worry- if they follow through on the miniseries story plot, she'll be damned dead soon anyway. There was a scene in the original miniseries when she was told she had malignant cancer, and a couple of scenes indicating that it's breast cancer and has already metastasized. If the Cylons don't get her by episode 13, the cancer will.
Above all though, they need a Daggit. I WANT MY DAGGIT!
If you didn't get the hint- the core of the new BG is the Frankenstien Complex- Robotic Daggits are WAY too smart and would/will never be created because this branch of humanity has had such a bad experience with the Cylons.
The downside of this theory is #6 and Gaius Baltar- while Gaius IS indeed a stereotypical atheist scientist, Cylon model #6 seems to believe in a monotheistic God (and explains herself in those terms) in the miniseries.
Not a chance- pure standard superstition will keep a good standard of living out of India for at least the next 100 years- as proven by all the stupid people who went down to the beach looking to see what diety had pulled the plug on the ocean a couple of weeks back.
Many times. Every time came out different- but the key among all of them was limiting to the two pages. There WAS one other major impact with that resume experience however- check out the DATES when I was unemployed. Right smack dab in the middle of the recession, and only a Bachelor's degree at a time when most Master's and above were unemployed.
And you're still missing my point: Size doesn't matter. Cost doesn't matter. Service is what matters. What's the level of service to Smith Falls vs Ottawa? If you fall and break your leg, does the ambulance come as quickly? That's what "To Each According to His Needs" means- and that's the measure of class, not how much is collected, but rather how much one gets back.
It's perfectly reasonable to spend less on Smith Falls than on Ottawa- as long as both have the same level of service.
I'm willing to bet the 33 minute problem will come down to isolating one of these two- or both- to fit in with the story line.
But now this raises an interesting question: At the end of the miniseries, it appeared that the Imperious Leader was wearing Shannon "Boomer"'s body model. Could similar models be networked? Thus providing a locator beacon every time they leave hyperspace- that it takes the cylons 33 minutes to home in on?
If I was Adama, I'd set the next hyperspace jump for exactly 29 minutes....always in the same general direction but enough off so that it was unpredictable....until I was so far out that the cylons could NEVER catch up.
Well, you have to find some way to define what labor is worth.
Labor is worth the increase in value that labor gives to the goods, of course. No less.
Libetarians would argue that what labor is worth is defined by what employer would pay.
Which just allows the employer to rip off both the laborer and the customer at both ends.
Actually I am not a libetarian. I am not stupid enough to think that luck and government help pay no part in my success in life.
God too, of course- he's the one who created everything you own....
On the other hand I am not a Marxist, thinking that all capitalists are 'evil'.
Not all capitalists are evil- I can name a few off the top of my head who aren't, but they have a tendency to stick with such basic rules as the Just Price and Fair Wage, which went out of vogue with the Wall Street crowd about the time we got rid of the King.
I am a gutless christian.
Must be- since all of Marx's morality comes from Acts Chapter 4 & 5. Any Apostolic Christian knows that corporatism is evil- for it produces undue profit, which fuels greed, which is one of the seven deadly sins.
First of all, my qualifications- between October 2001 and December 2003, I spent 26 months out of work. I got a LOT of experience writing resumes, CVs, and filling out job applications in that time. Here are my statistics:
2600 total job applications filed. 1475- 2 page resumes tuned to the job description in the advert, with cover letter. 200 1-page resumes tuned to the job description in the advert, with cover letter. 845 general purpose 6-page resumes with all experience and skills on them (3 pages worth of skillsets + 10 years of experience) 80 applications for fast food jobs.
Out of that, I recieved 15 interviews and one job offer- all on either the applications for fast food jobs, or on the 2 page resumes.
And now for the joke- decide now, do you want an exciting career or stability? And a hint if you decide on stability- student loans within the last 20 years in your credit report mean that you are no longer qualified to be a fry cook.
Even then, there wouldn't be a 50% bandwidth cut for every single re-upload; there would only be a throttling down to the slowest bandwidth in the total chain. The only way you'd drop to the bandwidth he was talking about would be to have a dialup user in the chain.
If the rumors about Qualcom's Sears Service Transport protocol are true (a mesh of NATed WiFi linking truck to truck back to broadband at the service depot, up and down our nation's freeways (you can see this if you're wardriving- *-SST-* SSIDs are everywhere!)) then it's entirely possible to get 11MBit service out of such a system- assuming of course that the connection the the physical net can handle that speed.
Actually, it's more like a certain past resident shares the moral responsibility for bin Laden's choices- and limited the population of those cities for all time to the same religion that shares a moral responsibility for bin Laden's choices. I hate to put it so bluntly- but there are atheists out there who blame Jesus Christ for the Klu Klux Klan, so it's not outside of the realm of previous thought to blame Mohammed's fundamentalism for al Qaida.
Without those cities, the central complaint of al Qaida- western interferance in the Holy Penninsula- goes away because the Holy Penninsula isn't Holy without the Holy Cities.
Don't need a full blown PC at the client side to do this- just need something that you can code extentions to. Most dumb terminals today already HAVE an operating system- it's just an embedded one. Heck, even PalmOS, Symbian, Verifone, or WinCE could handle this- you don't need a desktop system at the 500+ remote locations, just something that can handle USB, TWAIN, and a scripted browser of some sort.
No that's just naive. There are 700,000 people in Ottawa. you're saying they should get the same road budge as Smith Falls with it's 9,000 people?
I'm saying that for a TRUE socialist, COST is not the deciding factor, SERVICE is. Does each person get their needs met? That's the end point that is the ONLY concern. If you have a group of people not getting there needs met, then you need to do whatever it takes to meet those needs.
How's that socialism if Smith Falls people get more per capita than Ottawa people?
I thought initially, until I looked it up, that Smith Falls was a higher income area, I had that wrong. Still, it doesn't matter, because it's "To Each According to His NEED", not "an equal share for everybody" (which, btw, is the mistake Stalin made with his failure to provide socialism- he tried to take the output of the Ukraine and parcel it out equally to everybody- and ended up in a surplus in the cities and the farmers starving, because he based it on population instead of need).
Me thinks you know not about what you are speaking...
I'll admit to not knowing that the smaller areas you mentioned were poor if you'll admit to not understanding that true socialism means needs, not wants, are met and that true socialism means that class doesn't matter.
Thing is, it didn't last. That people could be shipped place to place didn't change the need for brains, nor did it change the commonality of brains among people; it just more evenly distributed the pressure difference between supply and demand.
Two centuries from now, true, this will all be over. But for now, IIT is graduating top-of-the-world respect CS students at 50,000 a year- more than enough to replace American IS/IT completely three years from now (of course they won't- Germany, England, and Japan are outsourcing as fast as we are, and we have to compete with them for $2.50/hr coders, but you get the picture). Hope you can live on $2.50/hr, bud.
In canada we have dirt roads in the country because the population density is lower.
Which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what a socialist country would do, as emergency service vehicles have a need to travel faster when they have a larger area to serve in relation to the population. Therefore, if you were really living under socialism or communism, you'd have paved roads in the countryside to handle the lower population density.
Why sacrifice for the many [e.g. Ottawa] by paving roads for the few [say Arnprior or Smith Falls]? That's a "social" concept if I ever heard one.
Capitalism is a social system, as is socialism and communism. Just because it's a "social" concept does not make it socialism. If anything- this is an example of elite capitalism as richer areas like cities that have the excess CAPTIAL get the SERVICES.
Just like you could give medicine to everyone but why not save it for those that need it?
Uh- what part of "To Each According to His Needs" do you NOT understand?
[I'm sure everyone wants their share of gauze and salene [sp?]]...
And according to their need, it should be available as quickly as possible. But it isn't- even under Canadian health care you have to travel to a city to get these services. Class system all the way.
Is medicine "capitilistic" because we don't issue gauze to everyone, even those who don't need it right now?
No, medicine ic capitalistic because some areas and populations get better and quicker service than others.
I don't think so. It's more pragmatic. It would be "captilism" if we made you pay for the city roads or admission to schools
In a capitalist country like Canada or the United States you DO pay for city roads and admission to schools- through your taxes.
hospitals.
Hospitals is different though- in Canada you pay for your hospitals through taxes, but here in Oregon 50,000 people have no access to the hospitals at all, because we pay for them through insurance premiums that are not available to all.
Where it gets into classes though is that it's harder to afford living in the cities where such services is abundant.
It's harder to afford to live there because the people who live there are paying taxes for their services in fine capitalistic fashion.
Go read some of the greats- Thomas More, Edward Belamey, Karl Marx. Socialism is classless- capitalism has these disparities in service.
Once again- one of five socialist PROGRAMS does not a socialist country make- and certainly NOT if they are as badly implemented as roads, schools, and public health systems are. I completely agree with you that class exists- and that's the reason why these countries are NOT socialist countries. In a TRUE socialist nation, class would not exist.
Take your first example, the roads. Does everybody have a paved road to their house? Of course not- because basically, this is capitalism masquading as socialism. If it was true socialism, the reason for building roads in the first place would be access for delivery and emergency vehicles- and the demand would be to have paved roads to every doorstep, since emergency vehicles can travel faster on paved roads. But because it is capitalism, the reason for building roads is commerce and military instead- the military only needs "major" thoughfares for speed, and commerce barely needs any roads at all since they just add on the cost of shipping to the retail price. Therefore you see only major highways and some urban side streets get paved- and the rest are gravel or dirt. That's indicitive of a class based CAPITALIST system, not socialism.
Yes, but each time you do that you half (or worse) the bandwith.
Why would that be? Do you have an extremely slow NAT router? After all, it's only replacing 32 bits per packet- based on MAC address tables. That should take a matter of clock cycles, not half the bandwidth.
This is already a big problem on bittorrrent and similar file sharing methods - the majority of residential connections have an upload an quarter or even an eighth of their download - usually 30KB/sec or 45KB/sec.
This has NOTHING to do with NAT- you can have a single machine on that same connection and it will have a slow upload. The reason for the slow upload is what the person is willing to pay for a connection- some broadband types like cable and ADSL have throttled down upload speeds (mine at home, for instance, is 128kbaud up, 758kbaud down).
Let's say you have a NAT router per person, and you've just dropped the speed to 15 or 22.5KB/sec.
Not so- in reality you have EXACTLY the same throughput through a NAT router if the router has a fast microprocessor- because it takes far less time to replace those 32 bits properly in the packet than it does to transmit the packet.
This sadly isn't good enough though. The RIAA/MPAA can just set up one router and that's it - they have you.
What does what they do on their side do to what I do on my side? All I need is a WIFI NAT router, with a cantenna, using a connection that isn't mine. There's no way they can trace me, because I've got the NAT DHCP of the company I'm stealing the bandwidth from, and the NAT DHCP of my router, between my machine and the backbone.
You really need two so you can say that you were just routing on someone elses behalf. You are now at 7.5KB/sec or 11.25KB/sec which is approaching dialup speeds.
If your assertation was true, that might be so- but it isn't. I routinely get less than 5ms loss on ping time between my NATed LAN and the net- and NO measurable loss of bandwith at all.
You're saying Canada and the US don't have a class system?
No, I'm saying that we've yet to see a country actually achieve socialism. Instead we get varying degrees of capitalism and totalitarianism- but very little actual socialism. Oh, sure, you get a health care system one place, a pension system in another, but by and large both are very expensive for what they do, and not very evenly adminstrated. That's why we need to replace buracrats with computers- so that one day we can have a culture where no man ever has power over another man's life.
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That's the ethical argument. But the practical argument is even more conclusive: do you genuinely believe that if the US nuked Mecca and Medina that all Muslims (or non-Muslims) who currently hate the US would just shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well, we had a good run of it, but I guess there's nothing left to fight for any more. I'll just be moving along to pacifism now. Thanks for a good game, mate."?
No- I think it would spawn one of three responses, depending on the person:
1. Atheism- because God let the Holy Cities be destroyed, some young people would be quick to suggest that the whole religion is a bunch of hogwash and that Mohammed was at best a good general and at worst a con artist.
2. It would be the start of attracting those who do hate the United States to our ports of entry, where we could easily exterminate them IF we pair it with a reasonable border security policy (note, this is where the whole plan falls down currently- there are some very powerfull business interests that are against border secuirty in the United States)
3. It would be a good start to an invasion of Saudi Arabia- as they're dealing with the deaths we could take over conclusively and put an end to this dangerous nonsense about a "Nation of Islam" built on "Koranic Justice".
Don't worry- if they follow through on the miniseries story plot, she'll be damned dead soon anyway. There was a scene in the original miniseries when she was told she had malignant cancer, and a couple of scenes indicating that it's breast cancer and has already metastasized. If the Cylons don't get her by episode 13, the cancer will.
Just a guess- I'll bet it is that really bad episode story arc featuring the Devil and the Ship of Lights.
Above all though, they need a Daggit. I WANT MY DAGGIT!
If you didn't get the hint- the core of the new BG is the Frankenstien Complex- Robotic Daggits are WAY too smart and would/will never be created because this branch of humanity has had such a bad experience with the Cylons.
The downside of this theory is #6 and Gaius Baltar- while Gaius IS indeed a stereotypical atheist scientist, Cylon model #6 seems to believe in a monotheistic God (and explains herself in those terms) in the miniseries.
Not a chance- pure standard superstition will keep a good standard of living out of India for at least the next 100 years- as proven by all the stupid people who went down to the beach looking to see what diety had pulled the plug on the ocean a couple of weeks back.
Many times. Every time came out different- but the key among all of them was limiting to the two pages. There WAS one other major impact with that resume experience however- check out the DATES when I was unemployed. Right smack dab in the middle of the recession, and only a Bachelor's degree at a time when most Master's and above were unemployed.
Just a hint for those of us whose favorite part of the original series seems to be slightly missing: Any Mormon/Egyptian/Aztec references to come?
And you're still missing my point: Size doesn't matter. Cost doesn't matter. Service is what matters. What's the level of service to Smith Falls vs Ottawa? If you fall and break your leg, does the ambulance come as quickly? That's what "To Each According to His Needs" means- and that's the measure of class, not how much is collected, but rather how much one gets back.
It's perfectly reasonable to spend less on Smith Falls than on Ottawa- as long as both have the same level of service.
Just didn't think of it.....isn't it enough that they're being chased by a beowulf cluster of robotic frogstar fighters?
I'm willing to bet the 33 minute problem will come down to isolating one of these two- or both- to fit in with the story line.
But now this raises an interesting question: At the end of the miniseries, it appeared that the Imperious Leader was wearing Shannon "Boomer"'s body model. Could similar models be networked? Thus providing a locator beacon every time they leave hyperspace- that it takes the cylons 33 minutes to home in on?
If I was Adama, I'd set the next hyperspace jump for exactly 29 minutes....always in the same general direction but enough off so that it was unpredictable....until I was so far out that the cylons could NEVER catch up.
Thank you for a reasoned response- this goes for the guy below as well.
Well, you have to find some way to define what labor is worth.
Labor is worth the increase in value that labor gives to the goods, of course. No less.
Libetarians would argue that what labor is worth is defined by what employer would pay.
Which just allows the employer to rip off both the laborer and the customer at both ends.
Actually I am not a libetarian. I am not stupid enough to think that luck and government help pay no part in my success in life.
God too, of course- he's the one who created everything you own....
On the other hand I am not a Marxist, thinking that all capitalists are 'evil'.
Not all capitalists are evil- I can name a few off the top of my head who aren't, but they have a tendency to stick with such basic rules as the Just Price and Fair Wage, which went out of vogue with the Wall Street crowd about the time we got rid of the King.
I am a gutless christian.
Must be- since all of Marx's morality comes from Acts Chapter 4 & 5. Any Apostolic Christian knows that corporatism is evil- for it produces undue profit, which fuels greed, which is one of the seven deadly sins.
First of all, my qualifications- between October 2001 and December 2003, I spent 26 months out of work. I got a LOT of experience writing resumes, CVs, and filling out job applications in that time. Here are my statistics:
2600 total job applications filed.
1475- 2 page resumes tuned to the job description in the advert, with cover letter.
200 1-page resumes tuned to the job description in the advert, with cover letter.
845 general purpose 6-page resumes with all experience and skills on them (3 pages worth of skillsets + 10 years of experience)
80 applications for fast food jobs.
Out of that, I recieved 15 interviews and one job offer- all on either the applications for fast food jobs, or on the 2 page resumes.
And now for the joke- decide now, do you want an exciting career or stability? And a hint if you decide on stability- student loans within the last 20 years in your credit report mean that you are no longer qualified to be a fry cook.
Even then, there wouldn't be a 50% bandwidth cut for every single re-upload; there would only be a throttling down to the slowest bandwidth in the total chain. The only way you'd drop to the bandwidth he was talking about would be to have a dialup user in the chain.
If the rumors about Qualcom's Sears Service Transport protocol are true (a mesh of NATed WiFi linking truck to truck back to broadband at the service depot, up and down our nation's freeways (you can see this if you're wardriving- *-SST-* SSIDs are everywhere!)) then it's entirely possible to get 11MBit service out of such a system- assuming of course that the connection the the physical net can handle that speed.
Actually, it's more like a certain past resident shares the moral responsibility for bin Laden's choices- and limited the population of those cities for all time to the same religion that shares a moral responsibility for bin Laden's choices. I hate to put it so bluntly- but there are atheists out there who blame Jesus Christ for the Klu Klux Klan, so it's not outside of the realm of previous thought to blame Mohammed's fundamentalism for al Qaida.
Without those cities, the central complaint of al Qaida- western interferance in the Holy Penninsula- goes away because the Holy Penninsula isn't Holy without the Holy Cities.
Don't need a full blown PC at the client side to do this- just need something that you can code extentions to. Most dumb terminals today already HAVE an operating system- it's just an embedded one. Heck, even PalmOS, Symbian, Verifone, or WinCE could handle this- you don't need a desktop system at the 500+ remote locations, just something that can handle USB, TWAIN, and a scripted browser of some sort.
THANK YOU! That certainly counts. Why isn't the administration using this to prove their WMD claims?
No that's just naive. There are 700,000 people in Ottawa. you're saying they should get the same road budge as Smith Falls with it's 9,000 people?
I'm saying that for a TRUE socialist, COST is not the deciding factor, SERVICE is. Does each person get their needs met? That's the end point that is the ONLY concern. If you have a group of people not getting there needs met, then you need to do whatever it takes to meet those needs.
How's that socialism if Smith Falls people get more per capita than Ottawa people?
I thought initially, until I looked it up, that Smith Falls was a higher income area, I had that wrong. Still, it doesn't matter, because it's "To Each According to His NEED", not "an equal share for everybody" (which, btw, is the mistake Stalin made with his failure to provide socialism- he tried to take the output of the Ukraine and parcel it out equally to everybody- and ended up in a surplus in the cities and the farmers starving, because he based it on population instead of need).
Me thinks you know not about what you are speaking...
I'll admit to not knowing that the smaller areas you mentioned were poor if you'll admit to not understanding that true socialism means needs, not wants, are met and that true socialism means that class doesn't matter.
Thing is, it didn't last. That people could be shipped place to place didn't change the need for brains, nor did it change the commonality of brains among people; it just more evenly distributed the pressure difference between supply and demand.
Two centuries from now, true, this will all be over. But for now, IIT is graduating top-of-the-world respect CS students at 50,000 a year- more than enough to replace American IS/IT completely three years from now (of course they won't- Germany, England, and Japan are outsourcing as fast as we are, and we have to compete with them for $2.50/hr coders, but you get the picture). Hope you can live on $2.50/hr, bud.
Lawyers have law-school quotas for example to protect them from a flood of cheap foreign legal geniouses.
Brazil and the WTO have something to say about that one- Lawyers in the United States are about to get hit with a cheap labor flood.
In canada we have dirt roads in the country because the population density is lower.
Which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what a socialist country would do, as emergency service vehicles have a need to travel faster when they have a larger area to serve in relation to the population. Therefore, if you were really living under socialism or communism, you'd have paved roads in the countryside to handle the lower population density.
Why sacrifice for the many [e.g. Ottawa] by paving roads for the few [say Arnprior or Smith Falls]? That's a "social" concept if I ever heard one.
Capitalism is a social system, as is socialism and communism. Just because it's a "social" concept does not make it socialism. If anything- this is an example of elite capitalism as richer areas like cities that have the excess CAPTIAL get the SERVICES.
Just like you could give medicine to everyone but why not save it for those that need it?
Uh- what part of "To Each According to His Needs" do you NOT understand?
[I'm sure everyone wants their share of gauze and salene [sp?]]...
And according to their need, it should be available as quickly as possible. But it isn't- even under Canadian health care you have to travel to a city to get these services. Class system all the way.
Is medicine "capitilistic" because we don't issue gauze to everyone, even those who don't need it right now?
No, medicine ic capitalistic because some areas and populations get better and quicker service than others.
I don't think so. It's more pragmatic. It would be "captilism" if we made you pay for the city roads or admission to schools
In a capitalist country like Canada or the United States you DO pay for city roads and admission to schools- through your taxes.
hospitals.
Hospitals is different though- in Canada you pay for your hospitals through taxes, but here in Oregon 50,000 people have no access to the hospitals at all, because we pay for them through insurance premiums that are not available to all.
Where it gets into classes though is that it's harder to afford living in the cities where such services is abundant.
It's harder to afford to live there because the people who live there are paying taxes for their services in fine capitalistic fashion.
Go read some of the greats- Thomas More, Edward Belamey, Karl Marx. Socialism is classless- capitalism has these disparities in service.
Once again- one of five socialist PROGRAMS does not a socialist country make- and certainly NOT if they are as badly implemented as roads, schools, and public health systems are. I completely agree with you that class exists- and that's the reason why these countries are NOT socialist countries. In a TRUE socialist nation, class would not exist.
Take your first example, the roads. Does everybody have a paved road to their house? Of course not- because basically, this is capitalism masquading as socialism. If it was true socialism, the reason for building roads in the first place would be access for delivery and emergency vehicles- and the demand would be to have paved roads to every doorstep, since emergency vehicles can travel faster on paved roads. But because it is capitalism, the reason for building roads is commerce and military instead- the military only needs "major" thoughfares for speed, and commerce barely needs any roads at all since they just add on the cost of shipping to the retail price. Therefore you see only major highways and some urban side streets get paved- and the rest are gravel or dirt. That's indicitive of a class based CAPITALIST system, not socialism.
Yes, but each time you do that you half (or worse) the bandwith.
Why would that be? Do you have an extremely slow NAT router? After all, it's only replacing 32 bits per packet- based on MAC address tables. That should take a matter of clock cycles, not half the bandwidth.
This is already a big problem on bittorrrent and similar file sharing methods - the majority of residential connections have an upload an quarter or even an eighth of their download - usually 30KB/sec or 45KB/sec.
This has NOTHING to do with NAT- you can have a single machine on that same connection and it will have a slow upload. The reason for the slow upload is what the person is willing to pay for a connection- some broadband types like cable and ADSL have throttled down upload speeds (mine at home, for instance, is 128kbaud up, 758kbaud down).
Let's say you have a NAT router per person, and you've just dropped the speed to 15 or 22.5KB/sec.
Not so- in reality you have EXACTLY the same throughput through a NAT router if the router has a fast microprocessor- because it takes far less time to replace those 32 bits properly in the packet than it does to transmit the packet.
This sadly isn't good enough though. The RIAA/MPAA can just set up one router and that's it - they have you.
What does what they do on their side do to what I do on my side? All I need is a WIFI NAT router, with a cantenna, using a connection that isn't mine. There's no way they can trace me, because I've got the NAT DHCP of the company I'm stealing the bandwidth from, and the NAT DHCP of my router, between my machine and the backbone.
You really need two so you can say that you were just routing on someone elses behalf. You are now at 7.5KB/sec or 11.25KB/sec which is approaching dialup speeds.
If your assertation was true, that might be so- but it isn't. I routinely get less than 5ms loss on ping time between my NATed LAN and the net- and NO measurable loss of bandwith at all.
You're saying Canada and the US don't have a class system?
No, I'm saying that we've yet to see a country actually achieve socialism. Instead we get varying degrees of capitalism and totalitarianism- but very little actual socialism. Oh, sure, you get a health care system one place, a pension system in another, but by and large both are very expensive for what they do, and not very evenly adminstrated. That's why we need to replace buracrats with computers- so that one day we can have a culture where no man ever has power over another man's life.