Note that you responded with a great deal of butthurt, but no rebuttal. Almost like you can't. Which means you sound like a Hillbot, desperately holding onto the Russian Collusion narrative after Mueller said there was no collusion and there will be no more indictments.
So dig out a chalkboard and do your best Bart Simpson impression:
1) Memos were never proven to forgeries 2) CBS did verify the memos - for the accuracy of their content 3) So even if the memos were forged copies, the forgeries were true
Repeat as necessary until those facts start to percolate into that brainpan. Then get back to me when every reporter is fired who parroted propaganda on either Iraq or on Russiagate. Until then, all you have is a pile of wingnut BS.
Yeah, but you're still focusing down on these two events that killed 347 people.
No shit, Sherlock. That's because it's two crashes in six months entirely due to corporate greed.
In 2017 around 4 billion people on this planet flew in a plane and here you are talking about cutting corners that killed 347 people.
On planes much safer than the Max, which is the problem with this phase of your argument. In the 70's, billions of miles were driven around the world as well - so it wasn't a big deal when the Ford Pinto could blow up in a low speed collision. A tiny percentage of all traffic deaths! It was no big deal! Because reasons!
That's the same as those anti-vaxxers who sit there and cite that allergic reactions to vaccines killed however many dozens it might have killed last year.
No connection between those dots.
First, could of, would of, should of. Please don't attempt to make an argument by attempting to extrapolate on things that clearly didn't happen.
Hand waiving. The like exploding Pinto's, both Max crashes happened under every day scenarios, making future crashes a certainty if nothing was done. Same as if Ford had gone on selling the Pinto with a faulty gas tank.
To address your 2nd point, many people are anti-vaccination because they don't like the government telling them what to do. Should the government be able force you or your children to drink water?
If a kid dies from dehydration, the government is going to be sending someone to jail for neglect.
To take caffeine? To take anti-depressants? If your answer to any of those is no, then why should the government be able to force you to put anything into your body, including vaccinations?
The issue with most vaccine analogies is that they aren't apples to apples comparisons - if I do or don't give a kid caffeinated soda, that's not going to put hundreds of lives at risk, the way a single person infected with measles can.
Just let people do what they want and stop being so controlling.
Just move out to your own island if you refuse to vaccine your kids, so you aren't putting the rest of the population at risk.
Instead, just make it so if a company requires repairs be done through themselves or their authorized dealer chain, then the repairs are free. i.e. If the company wants to insist on exclusivity of repairs for 10 years, then their product basically has to have a 10 year warranty. If they want to insist on exclusivity forever, then the product is warranted forever.
Farmer Bill: Hey, John Deere, my tractor broke down. I need it fixed ASAP as the window for planting in Spring 2019 is closing.
John Deere: Sure, Bill, no problem. We'll get your tractor fixed at no charge - in time for the 2020 planting season.
Farmer Bill: I can't wait that long! If I can't plant my crop in time I'll lose my farm.
John Deere: We're happy to help. If you fork over $25,000 we'll get it fixed by Easter. $65,000 for expedited service if you want it by the weekend. Have a nice day!
This law is just going to benefit retailers who will make it harder to return merchandise with fewer customers having receipts. It's also going to erode privacy further by herding people into giving stores their phone numbers or email addresses.
Instead, make a summary receipt the default. Date, store, cashier, total price, tax. Wouldn't need to be more than a couple inches.
You mean the dossier that the GOP initially funded and then abandoned when it became clear that Trump was going to win the nomination? That the DNC provided funding for only after the GOP abandoned it?
Dembots keep saying that as if it's supposed to mean something. It doesn't mean anything. That Trump's primary election opponents were also sniffing around for dirt does nothing whatsoever to change the fact that Hillary is in fact guilty of what Trump has been baselessly accused of doing: colluding with foreign intelligence agents to swing an election.
Nope. Still a total fail on your part here, Rooster. Flaming racist sacks of crap like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond may have started out their political careers as Dixiecrats, but like their brethren, they went to their graves as die-hard Republicans. Your veiled attempts to equate BLM (or whever) the Klan is another pile.
Just stick to pointing out how full of shit Democrats have been on Russiagate for the last two years, something that is based on facts.
And now you can read the problems with Rathergate:
1) Memos were never proven to forgeries 2) CBS did verify the memos - for the accuracy of their content 3) So even if the memos were forged copies, the forgeries were true
But what makes it all a farce, is this standard was applied to Dan Rather, and only Dan Rather. None of the editors and reporters that spent years parroting CIA talking points on Iraq as fact, without bothering to do any verification of what they had been told, lost their jobs. And if the media doesn't bother to higher fact-checkers, they sure as hell don't hire typography experts to examine everything they've been handed.
Russia also started trying to hack Clinton's office the same day Yeah, it sounds like a joke, but that's a pretty big coincidence.
Because it neeeever would have occurred to a foreign intelligence agency to hack an unsecured treasure trove of classified information until Trump made a joke about it on TV.
It's also evidence that Trump, who famously blurts out incriminating things, had some knowledge or influence over Russia's attacks.
As much as a photo of Obama eating shawarma is evidence that he really was a Muslim born in Kenya, sure.
You seem to pretty clearly be misunderstanding Mueller's job and mandate. Mueller had an explicit and narrow mandate to examine particular issues with the Russian efforts in the 2016 election, issues that directly arose from that in particular obstruction of justice, and a couple other specific things that Rosenstein particularly assigned to his team like Manafort's shady finances and associated dealings with Ukrainians. Mueller's job was not to go after Trump for anything and everything he could find
You seem to be ignoring the fact that many of Mueller's indictments and convictions came from events that had nothing whatsoever to do with Trump and/or the 2016 campaign and/or Russia. Like Flynn's conviction for lying to the FBI - not for collusion, but for trying to get Russia's support on an Israeli issue and then asking Russia not to retaliate against new sanctions. Or Manafort for ten year old financial crimes.
If Mueller could do that, there's no reason he couldn't have investigated Trump for opening new businesses in Saudi Arabia while running for president, and then giving them a massive arms deal as president.
Christopher Steele is well known and respected by US IC.
So what you're saying is....Steele is a professional liar and propagandist. And shouldn't be trusted if he said water was wet.
There was never any evidence of Steele acting in bad faith despite considerable efforts to illicit such.
Deflection. The point is Hillary would make the original Swiftboaters jealous in her epic trolling of the public. Projecting her attempts to work with foreign intelligence agents on swinging an election, onto her opponent. But you knew that already.
That said, fact remains that Boeing makes planes that fly millions of miles without a crash.
Which does nothing at all to change the fact they cut corners to compete with Airbus. Cost cutting that has cost hundreds of lives in less than a year, and could have cost hundreds more if the planes hadn't been grounded around the workd, forcing Boeing to start addressing the problem.
Yeah and people think that vaccines are bad.
Vaccines don't cause autism. The Boeing crashes actually happened.
I know car accidents hadn't been invented yet in 1969, but neither kids nor drivers always pay attention to whats going on around them. So it helps to have someone pay that attention and yell to Billy to get his ass out of the road because there's a car coming around the corner.
I saw hardworking people get constantly called up by lazy managers who would always go to that one maintenance guy to get work done out of a group of 5 sitting down in a workshop. Just because he knew that one guy was a hard worker and knew what he was doing. Lazy old Joe and Bob would just sit in the corner (actually their comfy chairs) on their hands 90% of the time.
So you have a beef with unions but are.....ranting at management? You spend a few too many years huffing fumes at your non-union job?
The unions didn't accept cutbacks to save their jobs in my case.
Uh huh. Is that because workers were expected to make all of the cuts while the executives would continue to see their annual 15% increase in compensation while they drove the company into the ground? And for some reason the union refused to take it all for the team? In any case, it's telling that you don't have a problem with dying companies paying out executive bonuses or securing golden parachutes in the event of bankruptcy.
Yeah, good luck with that. How about they just don't support political causes, and instead just take less of my money.
Infinitely more luck in a place where you have a vote, as opposed to place where you are a nobody with no power. Which you don't seem to have a problem with - because you're a bootlicking scab operating on anecdotes and confirmation bias.
Hey Ubershitlord, I've been at my non-union company for 25 years. We are very successful and have good pay and benefits.
Uh huh. Does your company have to compete for labor with companies that are unionized, and thus forcing up your wages and benefits despite your being a class traitor?
Power tends to corrupt. This observation of human nature has proven to be true for political parties, politicians, corporations, CEOs, religions, religious leaders, and of course also for unions among others.
Union power is distributed amongst its membership, not concentrated in a handful of individuals the way a CEO and a corporate board is. No comparison.
Lulz. Mueller has wrapped his investigation with zero indictments over the election. Russiagate was the dumbest conspiracy theory from the beginning, when Mueller refused to examine the DNC servers, the supposed hacking of which is the entire basis of Russiagate.
A decade after learning that the invasion of Iraq was based on total bullshit and lies from both public and deep state officials, a large portion of the public just decided to eat that kind of propaganda up a second time, with a spoon.
The Democratic Primary isn't an election of the United States of America. You may not like how or who the party chose to run, but tough shit. Nothing illegal, nothing "stolen".
Fraud is illegal. DNC charter mandates neutrality in races, and solicited donations from voters under such rules. Money laundering is also illegal, and the Clinton campaign also engaged in a massive scheme to skirt contribution limits by having donors give the max to different state party organizations, money that was sent straight back to the Clinton campaign for use in the primary and general elections.
Tell Mike Flynn
The Mike Flynn that talked to the Russians to 1) get their support on a UN vote on Apartheid Israel 2) to not retaliate for new American sanctions levied on Russia in response to America overthrowing Ukraine's government.
However don't let these trolls fool you into becoming an apologist for the Kremlin and getting the feeling that the Kremlin is actually a better friend to you than the political opposition in your own country. Just because there was no collusion it does not mean that the Kremlin didn't do anything in their power to muddy up things. It just means that we shouldn't blame Trump or the GOP for what happened.
Since the end of the cold war, Russia has been an infinitely better friend to humanity than either the Republican or Democratic parties. This isn't debatable, it's simple empirical fact. As to the "Russia must have done something because reasons" trope, all the Russiagate BS sounds like that scene from Austin Powers where Dr. Evil suggest blackmailing the world for one miiiiiiilion dollars. According to this theory, in 2015 Putin decided to influence the American election by.....spending less than $5,000 on Google ads, and employing a Twitter troll farm that posted both pro and anti-Trump memes, Obama merchandise, and puppies.
This is just whatabboutery on behalf of Hillary Clinton without mentioning her by name. No one else has set up their own private server, used it extensively & exclusively for electronically communicating the highest levels of classified information, or destroyed huge amounts of evidence while under active FBI investigation. There is no comparison whatsoever between Hillary and any Republican - Republicans, by the way, who Hillary blasted for using "secret email" accounts a mere two years before setting up her own secret email server. So she was a much worse hypocrite, much earlier, than anyone who chanted "lock her up" but now doesn't care about the Kushner's.
And that's not the end of the BS. There's the nonsense that Hillary's emails were ok because they weren't marked classified. If Hillary got an email from a CIA section chief in Japan about the state of North Korea's nuclear weapons program, that information didn't have to be stamped as classified to be treated as such - it was inherently classified. A fact Hillary knew full well as she received special training on handling such information.
Then there's the line that it wasn't that bad because Hillary didn't have any intent to mishandle or misuse any information. But intent is completely irrelevant to being charged with handling classified evidence - just ask Kristian Saucier. He was prosecuted by the same DOJ that whitewashed Hillary's actions, despite the DOJ agreeing that he had no intention of misusing the selfies he took on Navy submarines. They prosecuted him anyway, because he had classified information on his unsecured, unauthorized phone. Hillbots, try and explain why she shouldn't be prosecuted for her unsecured, unauthorized server when far lesser people have done time in federal pound-me-in-the-ass penitentiaries.
Last but not least, there's the destruction of tens of thousands of pieces of evidence while under active FBI investigation. Dembots have been cheering Mueller for indictments over process crimes, like lying to the FBI. Just what do you think St. Robert would have done if Manafort or Papadopolis had deleted 30,000+ emails while he was actively investigating them. They'd get decades for obstruction of justice, even if that was the only charge he went to trial with.
If they ARE covered by the FOIA, then they've broken the same law Hillary did
Not unless their day jobs are working with the highest levels of classified information. Not unless they hired a sysadmin without a security clearance to set it up. Not unless they deleted thousands of pieces of evidence while under active FBI investigation.
Mishandling classified evidence is what would send Hillary to prison for decades, for using an unsecured, unauthorized server adminned by a guy who didn't have a security clearance. Just ask Kristian Saucier who was prosecuted by the DOJ for taking selfies on his unsecured, unauthorized cell phone on a sub.
And what do YOU think the government would do to you if you destroyed thousands of pieces of evidence while under active FBI investigation?
Typical clickbait headline. Nothing is being reported during the trip, and the minimal information being reported doesn't include any personally identifiable information so there's no opportunity for misuse of the data down the road.
Sure sure - until the usage database is cross referenced with the payment database. I'm sure the NSA will never think of doing that.
Was that someone at the airlines told by Boeing "oh, yeah, you might wanna spring for this if you don't want to murder hundreds of your customers customers within five years". Probably not. First and foremost this is on Boeing for letting a defective product out the door, just as it was Ford's responsibility for selling gas tanks that exploded in low impact collisions. Comparing it a taxi company that turns down something minor, like lane departure alerts on new vehicles, doesn't cut it.
Do you have a car? Is it safe? Would it be safer if you paid more? Are there safety features available on the premium or luxury version of your car?
These Boeing failures have been a bit more catastrophic than buying a car that doesn't have lane departure warnings. More like if Ford had sold the Pinto with a better gas tank that wouldn't explode in low speed collisions - for a hefty premium. But the Pinto never should have shipped with a bad gas tank, and Boeing never should have sold critical safety features as expensive add-ons.
They knew they were "extras", in the same manner someone looking to buy a new Subaru knows the Eyesight system is an extra (or was when I bought my 2019 Legacy) yet they had meetings, debated the cost benefits, and ultimately chose NOT to buy the otpions which could have prevented the accident.
Because Boeing charges a pretty penny for those options, same as car manufacturers do for higher trims. And the failures have been a bit more catastrophic than buying a Forrester without Eyesight. More like if Ford had offered a safer gas tank in the Pinto - if you bought what would be the Platinum trim today for an extra $8000.
Slashdot Mirror
Note that you responded with a great deal of butthurt, but no rebuttal. Almost like you can't. Which means you sound like a Hillbot, desperately holding onto the Russian Collusion narrative after Mueller said there was no collusion and there will be no more indictments.
So dig out a chalkboard and do your best Bart Simpson impression:
1) Memos were never proven to forgeries
2) CBS did verify the memos - for the accuracy of their content
3) So even if the memos were forged copies, the forgeries were true
Repeat as necessary until those facts start to percolate into that brainpan. Then get back to me when every reporter is fired who parroted propaganda on either Iraq or on Russiagate. Until then, all you have is a pile of wingnut BS.
No shit, Sherlock. That's because it's two crashes in six months entirely due to corporate greed.
On planes much safer than the Max, which is the problem with this phase of your argument. In the 70's, billions of miles were driven around the world as well - so it wasn't a big deal when the Ford Pinto could blow up in a low speed collision. A tiny percentage of all traffic deaths! It was no big deal! Because reasons!
No connection between those dots.
Hand waiving. The like exploding Pinto's, both Max crashes happened under every day scenarios, making future crashes a certainty if nothing was done. Same as if Ford had gone on selling the Pinto with a faulty gas tank.
So how many shares do you own in Boeing, exactly?
If a kid dies from dehydration, the government is going to be sending someone to jail for neglect.
The issue with most vaccine analogies is that they aren't apples to apples comparisons - if I do or don't give a kid caffeinated soda, that's not going to put hundreds of lives at risk, the way a single person infected with measles can.
Just move out to your own island if you refuse to vaccine your kids, so you aren't putting the rest of the population at risk.
Farmer Bill: Hey, John Deere, my tractor broke down. I need it fixed ASAP as the window for planting in Spring 2019 is closing.
John Deere: Sure, Bill, no problem. We'll get your tractor fixed at no charge - in time for the 2020 planting season.
Farmer Bill: I can't wait that long! If I can't plant my crop in time I'll lose my farm.
John Deere: We're happy to help. If you fork over $25,000 we'll get it fixed by Easter. $65,000 for expedited service if you want it by the weekend. Have a nice day!
This law is just going to benefit retailers who will make it harder to return merchandise with fewer customers having receipts. It's also going to erode privacy further by herding people into giving stores their phone numbers or email addresses.
Instead, make a summary receipt the default. Date, store, cashier, total price, tax. Wouldn't need to be more than a couple inches.
Fixed.
Dembots keep saying that as if it's supposed to mean something. It doesn't mean anything. That Trump's primary election opponents were also sniffing around for dirt does nothing whatsoever to change the fact that Hillary is in fact guilty of what Trump has been baselessly accused of doing: colluding with foreign intelligence agents to swing an election.
Nope. Still a total fail on your part here, Rooster. Flaming racist sacks of crap like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond may have started out their political careers as Dixiecrats, but like their brethren, they went to their graves as die-hard Republicans. Your veiled attempts to equate BLM (or whever) the Klan is another pile.
Just stick to pointing out how full of shit Democrats have been on Russiagate for the last two years, something that is based on facts.
And now you can read the problems with Rathergate:
1) Memos were never proven to forgeries
2) CBS did verify the memos - for the accuracy of their content
3) So even if the memos were forged copies, the forgeries were true
But what makes it all a farce, is this standard was applied to Dan Rather, and only Dan Rather. None of the editors and reporters that spent years parroting CIA talking points on Iraq as fact, without bothering to do any verification of what they had been told, lost their jobs. And if the media doesn't bother to higher fact-checkers, they sure as hell don't hire typography experts to examine everything they've been handed.
Because it neeeever would have occurred to a foreign intelligence agency to hack an unsecured treasure trove of classified information until Trump made a joke about it on TV.
As much as a photo of Obama eating shawarma is evidence that he really was a Muslim born in Kenya, sure.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that many of Mueller's indictments and convictions came from events that had nothing whatsoever to do with Trump and/or the 2016 campaign and/or Russia. Like Flynn's conviction for lying to the FBI - not for collusion, but for trying to get Russia's support on an Israeli issue and then asking Russia not to retaliate against new sanctions. Or Manafort for ten year old financial crimes.
If Mueller could do that, there's no reason he couldn't have investigated Trump for opening new businesses in Saudi Arabia while running for president, and then giving them a massive arms deal as president.
So what you're saying is....Steele is a professional liar and propagandist. And shouldn't be trusted if he said water was wet.
Deflection. The point is Hillary would make the original Swiftboaters jealous in her epic trolling of the public. Projecting her attempts to work with foreign intelligence agents on swinging an election, onto her opponent. But you knew that already.
Which does nothing at all to change the fact they cut corners to compete with Airbus. Cost cutting that has cost hundreds of lives in less than a year, and could have cost hundreds more if the planes hadn't been grounded around the workd, forcing Boeing to start addressing the problem.
Vaccines don't cause autism. The Boeing crashes actually happened.
I know car accidents hadn't been invented yet in 1969, but neither kids nor drivers always pay attention to whats going on around them. So it helps to have someone pay that attention and yell to Billy to get his ass out of the road because there's a car coming around the corner.
So you have a beef with unions but are.....ranting at management? You spend a few too many years huffing fumes at your non-union job?
Uh huh. Is that because workers were expected to make all of the cuts while the executives would continue to see their annual 15% increase in compensation while they drove the company into the ground? And for some reason the union refused to take it all for the team? In any case, it's telling that you don't have a problem with dying companies paying out executive bonuses or securing golden parachutes in the event of bankruptcy.
Infinitely more luck in a place where you have a vote, as opposed to place where you are a nobody with no power. Which you don't seem to have a problem with - because you're a bootlicking scab operating on anecdotes and confirmation bias.
Uh huh. Does your company have to compete for labor with companies that are unionized, and thus forcing up your wages and benefits despite your being a class traitor?
Union power is distributed amongst its membership, not concentrated in a handful of individuals the way a CEO and a corporate board is. No comparison.
Lulz. Mueller has wrapped his investigation with zero indictments over the election. Russiagate was the dumbest conspiracy theory from the beginning, when Mueller refused to examine the DNC servers, the supposed hacking of which is the entire basis of Russiagate.
A decade after learning that the invasion of Iraq was based on total bullshit and lies from both public and deep state officials, a large portion of the public just decided to eat that kind of propaganda up a second time, with a spoon.
Fraud is illegal. DNC charter mandates neutrality in races, and solicited donations from voters under such rules. Money laundering is also illegal, and the Clinton campaign also engaged in a massive scheme to skirt contribution limits by having donors give the max to different state party organizations, money that was sent straight back to the Clinton campaign for use in the primary and general elections.
The Mike Flynn that talked to the Russians to 1) get their support on a UN vote on Apartheid Israel 2) to not retaliate for new American sanctions levied on Russia in response to America overthrowing Ukraine's government.
Since the end of the cold war, Russia has been an infinitely better friend to humanity than either the Republican or Democratic parties. This isn't debatable, it's simple empirical fact. As to the "Russia must have done something because reasons" trope, all the Russiagate BS sounds like that scene from Austin Powers where Dr. Evil suggest blackmailing the world for one miiiiiiilion dollars. According to this theory, in 2015 Putin decided to influence the American election by.....spending less than $5,000 on Google ads, and employing a Twitter troll farm that posted both pro and anti-Trump memes, Obama merchandise, and puppies.
This is just whatabboutery on behalf of Hillary Clinton without mentioning her by name. No one else has set up their own private server, used it extensively & exclusively for electronically communicating the highest levels of classified information, or destroyed huge amounts of evidence while under active FBI investigation. There is no comparison whatsoever between Hillary and any Republican - Republicans, by the way, who Hillary blasted for using "secret email" accounts a mere two years before setting up her own secret email server. So she was a much worse hypocrite, much earlier, than anyone who chanted "lock her up" but now doesn't care about the Kushner's.
And that's not the end of the BS. There's the nonsense that Hillary's emails were ok because they weren't marked classified. If Hillary got an email from a CIA section chief in Japan about the state of North Korea's nuclear weapons program, that information didn't have to be stamped as classified to be treated as such - it was inherently classified. A fact Hillary knew full well as she received special training on handling such information.
Then there's the line that it wasn't that bad because Hillary didn't have any intent to mishandle or misuse any information. But intent is completely irrelevant to being charged with handling classified evidence - just ask Kristian Saucier. He was prosecuted by the same DOJ that whitewashed Hillary's actions, despite the DOJ agreeing that he had no intention of misusing the selfies he took on Navy submarines. They prosecuted him anyway, because he had classified information on his unsecured, unauthorized phone. Hillbots, try and explain why she shouldn't be prosecuted for her unsecured, unauthorized server when far lesser people have done time in federal pound-me-in-the-ass penitentiaries.
Last but not least, there's the destruction of tens of thousands of pieces of evidence while under active FBI investigation. Dembots have been cheering Mueller for indictments over process crimes, like lying to the FBI. Just what do you think St. Robert would have done if Manafort or Papadopolis had deleted 30,000+ emails while he was actively investigating them. They'd get decades for obstruction of justice, even if that was the only charge he went to trial with.
Not unless their day jobs are working with the highest levels of classified information. Not unless they hired a sysadmin without a security clearance to set it up. Not unless they deleted thousands of pieces of evidence while under active FBI investigation.
Mishandling classified evidence is what would send Hillary to prison for decades, for using an unsecured, unauthorized server adminned by a guy who didn't have a security clearance. Just ask Kristian Saucier who was prosecuted by the DOJ for taking selfies on his unsecured, unauthorized cell phone on a sub.
And what do YOU think the government would do to you if you destroyed thousands of pieces of evidence while under active FBI investigation?
Sure sure - until the usage database is cross referenced with the payment database. I'm sure the NSA will never think of doing that.
Was that someone at the airlines told by Boeing "oh, yeah, you might wanna spring for this if you don't want to murder hundreds of your customers customers within five years". Probably not. First and foremost this is on Boeing for letting a defective product out the door, just as it was Ford's responsibility for selling gas tanks that exploded in low impact collisions. Comparing it a taxi company that turns down something minor, like lane departure alerts on new vehicles, doesn't cut it.
These Boeing failures have been a bit more catastrophic than buying a car that doesn't have lane departure warnings. More like if Ford had sold the Pinto with a better gas tank that wouldn't explode in low speed collisions - for a hefty premium. But the Pinto never should have shipped with a bad gas tank, and Boeing never should have sold critical safety features as expensive add-ons.
Because Boeing charges a pretty penny for those options, same as car manufacturers do for higher trims. And the failures have been a bit more catastrophic than buying a Forrester without Eyesight. More like if Ford had offered a safer gas tank in the Pinto - if you bought what would be the Platinum trim today for an extra $8000.