My company is an HP reseller and authorized warranty delivery partner. If someone brought me a laptop with linux on it I would do the same thing I do for all of the HP gear we work on, troubleshoot it and get parts ordered. If you're going directly to HP be prepared to deal with people that have no idea what you're talking about. You're best bet is to find a local warranty delivery partner (there's a search on the HP web site) and take your machine there. The local guys usually know what the deal is. I've got a crapload of HP servers running linux. Why would HP support linux if they were going to deny your warranty claim? Sounds like someone didn't know what they were doing. If you can't find a decent warranty deliver partner send your stuff to me.:)
Another note: HP has a consumer product line and a commercial product line. Save yourself a headache and buy the commercial line products. The hardware is a ton nicer and so is the support.
Tom
My company is a Microsoft Certified Partner and I've NEVER read anything like the above in our partner literature. Sure, bashing Microsoft is cool and all that but spreading crap like this is rediculous.
We use linux in quite a few situations with our Microsoft based networks. Not one of our clients has had a problem with it.
What am I offering that Best Buy isn't? Knowledge and experience. My experience in the home automation market may not be great but my networking experience is. I'm at the end of my fourth year as a small business owner, my company is successful and growing, and I've got a great reputation here. I spent 6 years with another company in this area before I went solo (I actually went back to the big(ger - where I live isn't that small anymore) city first but returned because of all the people that followed me to my new employer) and since then I've been nothing but busy. I have four employees and am looking for a fifth. In the last year we've branched into IP telephony using Asterisk (I'm a long time Cisco guy but Asterisk is incredible bang for the buck) and we're kicking some major ass in that field. My home install is our test bed/demo system. I'm taking the first step to learn this stuff (just like anyone else would) and I'm sure we'll be selling our first system in the next three months. Since I've been in this field, in this area, for more than 10 years I don't believe the fly-by-night tag applies to me. Either way, because of the area I live in, I'm not too worried about Best Buy. All they've done so far is increase my workload because of the stuff they screw up for the area businesses cheap enough to hire them. I may cost more but at least shit works when I leave.
I understand what you're saying but I have two very important reasons for doing it the way I am - my wife and the people I want to sell this to. Sure, I'm impressed as hell with Mister House, especially the APRS capabilities, but if the PC died and my wife (or clients) couldn't control things I'd be in trouble. I'm going this route because of what I want to be able to sell and I'll be targeting people who think $15k is a nice amount of money to spend on a weeks vacation. Using an old PC for an automation system won't get me in the door of the people I'm aiming for.
As much as I'd love to make a statement by using old PCs and linux and what have you, I'd rather use a commercial product will make people comfortable so in the end I can feed my family.
I'm in the middle of a home automation install but I'm not using the software/hardware Best Buy is going to pushing. I'm putting in a Home Automation, Inc http://www.homeauto.com/ Omni IIe controller with UPB control for my lights. I have the thermostat and keypad installed and wired into the controller. Once I get my media server back I'll be installing the web based control software and then figuring out how to get the old XP MCE based software to install on Vista. So far the system is incredible but it's definately not something the average Joe is going to get into. I'm doing it myself because I'm a geek (saying that while posting on/. is redundant, right?) and actually I'd like to start doing it professionally. I've already got the computer networking business, why not add home automation and computerized audio/video to it? The high end stereo place in town does no automation and they don't want to get into computer based media. Sounds to me like a market that needs filling.
I would suggest talking to people who have used Asterisk Business Edition before going that route. ABE is a nice product but so far their support has been goofy. ABE B.1-1 has a problem with.lock files in the voicemail directories. I was told they knew about the problem. No fix for my clients, nothing. B.1-2 just came out so I'm hoping it was fixed in there. Group voicemail is a joke too, but I've only got one client that actually uses it. So far we're waiting patiently for that part of the system to become workable.
I've had good luck with the Digium cards but I'd almost recommend running the open source version and using the forums at forums.digium.com before I'd buy ABE.
I've installed 6 or so Asterisk systems in the last 8 months and they all work very nicely. I've done a bunch of Cisco VoIP stuff and actually used Asterisk as the voicemail end of the Cisco Call Manager Express system we were running here in the office up until March of this year. Take the time to learn Asterisk and hand write the config files. It's a bit of a learning curve but there are a ton of people out there that have proven quite helpful. Of course, when 1.4 comes out there's supposed to be a GUI but I haven't yet looked at it. Either way, I'd go Asterisk just because of the control you have and you're not always worrying about support contracts and such, unless you decide to go with the business edition.
Tom
You're absolutely correct. I found learning Asterisk a challenge and I'm still trying to figure certain things out. When I learned Cisco Call Manager it was so much easier. The GUI for CM rocks. Yes, I love the idea of a text file config because it means I get to bill for every change I make, but at the same time it's rediculous to have to go through that. I can say one thing about the Asterisk community, the majority of people are extremely helpful and generous. If they weren't I wouldn't have bothered learning as much as I have.
While I understand what you're saying it makes me wonder what projects you WOULD start if you only look at your current experience. How did you get where you are today? You obviously didn't know everything when you first started.:)
Check out the Asterisk forums at http://forums.digium.com./ Using those forums and the Asterisk: The Future of Telephony book from O'Reilly I've learned enough to build some nice systems.
Tom
I used to work for a company that did a buttload of Call Manager. Well, they still do but I don't. I love Call Manager. It's an incredible platform but it's just so damn expensive. Both systems need care and feeding and I would say that Asterisk needs more of that at this point in time. The Call Manager systems I've worked on ran smoothly and required little to know intervention. Asterisk is a bit more of an attention whore right now but I figure that will change as time goes on. The big thing with Asterisk is the price. Even if we charge a ton for setup we still beat the traditional VoIP phone vendors by quite a bit. We beat one by half earlier this year, $35k to $17k for Asterisk and that was using expensive phones.
I've got a CM 3.3 system installed here in town that has been going strong for 4 years. Every so often it needs to be rebooted and I did end up replacing a hard drive in the Exchange/Unity server two years ago, but that's it. It just runs. We seem to reboot Asterisk about once a month right now instead of once every ten months. That and echo tuning on Asterisk is a pain in the rear. I don't think I've gotten one system to be echo free. Of course, that could be because everyone likes to crank the volume on the phone so high I can hear it in the next room.
Tom
My company sells Asterisk solutions to business clients and we're very happy with it. Once you figure out what you're doing the sky is the limit when it comes to configuration. My only issue with Asterisk is the voicemail subsystem. If Digium would put some time into that I would be the happiest person alive.
Tom
I'd highly recommend the TTSOM servers also. They're an older clan consisting of mostly married guys who have kids and play just for fun. They're easy to get along with and are very welcoming to the new players. When I started playing Urban Terror I found their server and have been playing there ever since.
I'm in Nothern Michigan. When I lived up here between '83 and '87 it SNOWED! For the last 7 years it's been a JOKE! Yeah, we get snow, but nothing like I remember! I lived in Northeastern Indiana (right in the corner by Ohio and Michigan) growing up and I remember some real nice snow storms then too! I'm only a tech (working on code and general) and my yagi is in the rafter of my garage, so I don't have to worry about any wind or snow damage yet. That and my neighborhood association has rules against having a tower. Of course, I'm association president for the next two years so that will change! Can you ship us some snow this year?
73! Tom - KB8UFJ - Traverse City, MI kbu8fj@arrl.net
Man, we don't get ANY good storms up here anymore. It used to snow like crazy back in the mid 80s. Now I'm lucky if it's a white Christmas! Time to relocate to NC so I can get involved in all that hot ham radio action!
Let's look at this from a US perspective. Right now, unless you can also sell long distance in the US, you must rely on another carrier to handle that portion of a call. What, besides federal regulations, is stopping the ILEC's from just firing the calls over their network to the endpoint (if they happen to service that endpoint) bypassing the LD carrier? Yeah, those pesky regulations might be a problem but has that stopped anyone? Does this save us money in the future or do they charge more because it's VoIP?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?
Either way, it's nice to see someone finally moving toward a full scale VoIP implementation. The technology is amazing (I'm pretty good with Cisco's voice stuff) and I'd love to see more people go this route.
What I find interesting is that alot of the stuff I've downloaded turns out to be pre-release demo versions of the songs. I mainly download modern rock and the stuff I'm looking for is usually brand spankin' new. I actually enjoy getting them because they really show the direction the song has taken from idea to finished product.
On that note though, who is supplying these demos to the p2p networks? The bands? The record companies? It sure isn't anyone who buys stuff from the store and rips it for all to share. Makes you wonder if one hand is feeding the networks while the other is trying to choke them.
Amount of data? A g.711 call requires about 80Kbps of data when there is data to be transmitted. That is, if you're not talking there's nothing there to send. Also, last time I checked, when I'm working on a project or surfing the web, there's a bunch of time in there where I'm not transmitting or receiving anything on my machine. Unless I'm on a porn downloading spree I don't see how this phone is going to impact any of the work I'm doing.
What surprises me the most is that this technology has been out for a few years and people are just now getting excited over this. I set up my first system last summer using one Call Manager to run four offices, three of which were connected by 384Kbps lines. Even then you could unplug your phone and go to another office where it would re-register and work just like normal.
The only downside I can see with any of this is that the phones are prohibitively expensive. 7960s are $450 or so each! The 7910s are $300+ and they are (or were) the bottom end.
What's REALLY cool is that you can run a key system out of a Cisco router now. IP Telephony Services on a 1751 will allow you to run 24 phones with at least 4 outgoing lines. That is damn cool.
Tom
I briefly worked for a company that was a huge Cisco IP telephony reseller. We had a Symbol 802.11b phone in the office for demos and such. It worked quite nicely. Bandwidth usage is fairly low (12-24Kbps or so when you're speaking) so WAN bandwidth isn't a huge thing. At least it isn't if you're not running 100 users over it. We actually had a branch office that homed to our Call Manager over a VPN. It worked great. They had their own gateways but all their call processing and voice mail was done in the main office. The technology is pretty amazing.
Tom
Slashdot Mirror
My company is an HP reseller and authorized warranty delivery partner. If someone brought me a laptop with linux on it I would do the same thing I do for all of the HP gear we work on, troubleshoot it and get parts ordered. If you're going directly to HP be prepared to deal with people that have no idea what you're talking about. You're best bet is to find a local warranty delivery partner (there's a search on the HP web site) and take your machine there. The local guys usually know what the deal is. I've got a crapload of HP servers running linux. Why would HP support linux if they were going to deny your warranty claim? Sounds like someone didn't know what they were doing. If you can't find a decent warranty deliver partner send your stuff to me. :)
Another note: HP has a consumer product line and a commercial product line. Save yourself a headache and buy the commercial line products. The hardware is a ton nicer and so is the support.
Tom
My company is a Microsoft Certified Partner and I've NEVER read anything like the above in our partner literature. Sure, bashing Microsoft is cool and all that but spreading crap like this is rediculous.
We use linux in quite a few situations with our Microsoft based networks. Not one of our clients has had a problem with it.
Tom
What am I offering that Best Buy isn't? Knowledge and experience. My experience in the home automation market may not be great but my networking experience is. I'm at the end of my fourth year as a small business owner, my company is successful and growing, and I've got a great reputation here. I spent 6 years with another company in this area before I went solo (I actually went back to the big(ger - where I live isn't that small anymore) city first but returned because of all the people that followed me to my new employer) and since then I've been nothing but busy. I have four employees and am looking for a fifth. In the last year we've branched into IP telephony using Asterisk (I'm a long time Cisco guy but Asterisk is incredible bang for the buck) and we're kicking some major ass in that field. My home install is our test bed/demo system. I'm taking the first step to learn this stuff (just like anyone else would) and I'm sure we'll be selling our first system in the next three months. Since I've been in this field, in this area, for more than 10 years I don't believe the fly-by-night tag applies to me. Either way, because of the area I live in, I'm not too worried about Best Buy. All they've done so far is increase my workload because of the stuff they screw up for the area businesses cheap enough to hire them. I may cost more but at least shit works when I leave.
I understand what you're saying but I have two very important reasons for doing it the way I am - my wife and the people I want to sell this to. Sure, I'm impressed as hell with Mister House, especially the APRS capabilities, but if the PC died and my wife (or clients) couldn't control things I'd be in trouble. I'm going this route because of what I want to be able to sell and I'll be targeting people who think $15k is a nice amount of money to spend on a weeks vacation. Using an old PC for an automation system won't get me in the door of the people I'm aiming for. As much as I'd love to make a statement by using old PCs and linux and what have you, I'd rather use a commercial product will make people comfortable so in the end I can feed my family.
I'm in the middle of a home automation install but I'm not using the software/hardware Best Buy is going to pushing. I'm putting in a Home Automation, Inc http://www.homeauto.com/ Omni IIe controller with UPB control for my lights. I have the thermostat and keypad installed and wired into the controller. Once I get my media server back I'll be installing the web based control software and then figuring out how to get the old XP MCE based software to install on Vista. So far the system is incredible but it's definately not something the average Joe is going to get into. I'm doing it myself because I'm a geek (saying that while posting on /. is redundant, right?) and actually I'd like to start doing it professionally. I've already got the computer networking business, why not add home automation and computerized audio/video to it? The high end stereo place in town does no automation and they don't want to get into computer based media. Sounds to me like a market that needs filling.
Tom
I would suggest talking to people who have used Asterisk Business Edition before going that route. ABE is a nice product but so far their support has been goofy. ABE B.1-1 has a problem with .lock files in the voicemail directories. I was told they knew about the problem. No fix for my clients, nothing. B.1-2 just came out so I'm hoping it was fixed in there. Group voicemail is a joke too, but I've only got one client that actually uses it. So far we're waiting patiently for that part of the system to become workable.
I've had good luck with the Digium cards but I'd almost recommend running the open source version and using the forums at forums.digium.com before I'd buy ABE.
I've installed 6 or so Asterisk systems in the last 8 months and they all work very nicely. I've done a bunch of Cisco VoIP stuff and actually used Asterisk as the voicemail end of the Cisco Call Manager Express system we were running here in the office up until March of this year. Take the time to learn Asterisk and hand write the config files. It's a bit of a learning curve but there are a ton of people out there that have proven quite helpful. Of course, when 1.4 comes out there's supposed to be a GUI but I haven't yet looked at it. Either way, I'd go Asterisk just because of the control you have and you're not always worrying about support contracts and such, unless you decide to go with the business edition. Tom
You're absolutely correct. I found learning Asterisk a challenge and I'm still trying to figure certain things out. When I learned Cisco Call Manager it was so much easier. The GUI for CM rocks. Yes, I love the idea of a text file config because it means I get to bill for every change I make, but at the same time it's rediculous to have to go through that. I can say one thing about the Asterisk community, the majority of people are extremely helpful and generous. If they weren't I wouldn't have bothered learning as much as I have.
I'm tired. Excuse me for letting my fingers spell the words and not my brain.
While I understand what you're saying it makes me wonder what projects you WOULD start if you only look at your current experience. How did you get where you are today? You obviously didn't know everything when you first started. :)
Check out the Asterisk forums at http://forums.digium.com./ Using those forums and the Asterisk: The Future of Telephony book from O'Reilly I've learned enough to build some nice systems.
Tom
I used to work for a company that did a buttload of Call Manager. Well, they still do but I don't. I love Call Manager. It's an incredible platform but it's just so damn expensive. Both systems need care and feeding and I would say that Asterisk needs more of that at this point in time. The Call Manager systems I've worked on ran smoothly and required little to know intervention. Asterisk is a bit more of an attention whore right now but I figure that will change as time goes on. The big thing with Asterisk is the price. Even if we charge a ton for setup we still beat the traditional VoIP phone vendors by quite a bit. We beat one by half earlier this year, $35k to $17k for Asterisk and that was using expensive phones. I've got a CM 3.3 system installed here in town that has been going strong for 4 years. Every so often it needs to be rebooted and I did end up replacing a hard drive in the Exchange/Unity server two years ago, but that's it. It just runs. We seem to reboot Asterisk about once a month right now instead of once every ten months. That and echo tuning on Asterisk is a pain in the rear. I don't think I've gotten one system to be echo free. Of course, that could be because everyone likes to crank the volume on the phone so high I can hear it in the next room. Tom
My company sells Asterisk solutions to business clients and we're very happy with it. Once you figure out what you're doing the sky is the limit when it comes to configuration. My only issue with Asterisk is the voicemail subsystem. If Digium would put some time into that I would be the happiest person alive. Tom
but the first page I saw was one bitching that I was using IE. I'll take my IE and go somewhere else, thanks.
I'd highly recommend the TTSOM servers also. They're an older clan consisting of mostly married guys who have kids and play just for fun. They're easy to get along with and are very welcoming to the new players. When I started playing Urban Terror I found their server and have been playing there ever since.
I'm in Nothern Michigan. When I lived up here between '83 and '87 it SNOWED! For the last 7 years it's been a JOKE! Yeah, we get snow, but nothing like I remember! I lived in Northeastern Indiana (right in the corner by Ohio and Michigan) growing up and I remember some real nice snow storms then too! I'm only a tech (working on code and general) and my yagi is in the rafter of my garage, so I don't have to worry about any wind or snow damage yet. That and my neighborhood association has rules against having a tower. Of course, I'm association president for the next two years so that will change! Can you ship us some snow this year?
73! Tom - KB8UFJ - Traverse City, MI kbu8fj@arrl.net
Man, we don't get ANY good storms up here anymore. It used to snow like crazy back in the mid 80s. Now I'm lucky if it's a white Christmas! Time to relocate to NC so I can get involved in all that hot ham radio action!
Tom
KB8UFJ
Let's look at this from a US perspective. Right now, unless you can also sell long distance in the US, you must rely on another carrier to handle that portion of a call. What, besides federal regulations, is stopping the ILEC's from just firing the calls over their network to the endpoint (if they happen to service that endpoint) bypassing the LD carrier? Yeah, those pesky regulations might be a problem but has that stopped anyone? Does this save us money in the future or do they charge more because it's VoIP?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?
Either way, it's nice to see someone finally moving toward a full scale VoIP implementation. The technology is amazing (I'm pretty good with Cisco's voice stuff) and I'd love to see more people go this route.
Tom
What I find interesting is that alot of the stuff I've downloaded turns out to be pre-release demo versions of the songs. I mainly download modern rock and the stuff I'm looking for is usually brand spankin' new. I actually enjoy getting them because they really show the direction the song has taken from idea to finished product.
On that note though, who is supplying these demos to the p2p networks? The bands? The record companies? It sure isn't anyone who buys stuff from the store and rips it for all to share. Makes you wonder if one hand is feeding the networks while the other is trying to choke them.
Tom
Amount of data? A g.711 call requires about 80Kbps of data when there is data to be transmitted. That is, if you're not talking there's nothing there to send. Also, last time I checked, when I'm working on a project or surfing the web, there's a bunch of time in there where I'm not transmitting or receiving anything on my machine. Unless I'm on a porn downloading spree I don't see how this phone is going to impact any of the work I'm doing. What surprises me the most is that this technology has been out for a few years and people are just now getting excited over this. I set up my first system last summer using one Call Manager to run four offices, three of which were connected by 384Kbps lines. Even then you could unplug your phone and go to another office where it would re-register and work just like normal. The only downside I can see with any of this is that the phones are prohibitively expensive. 7960s are $450 or so each! The 7910s are $300+ and they are (or were) the bottom end. What's REALLY cool is that you can run a key system out of a Cisco router now. IP Telephony Services on a 1751 will allow you to run 24 phones with at least 4 outgoing lines. That is damn cool. Tom
I briefly worked for a company that was a huge Cisco IP telephony reseller. We had a Symbol 802.11b phone in the office for demos and such. It worked quite nicely. Bandwidth usage is fairly low (12-24Kbps or so when you're speaking) so WAN bandwidth isn't a huge thing. At least it isn't if you're not running 100 users over it. We actually had a branch office that homed to our Call Manager over a VPN. It worked great. They had their own gateways but all their call processing and voice mail was done in the main office. The technology is pretty amazing. Tom