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Amateur Radio Braces for Hurricane Isabel

TaxSlave writes "Amateur Radio operators in North Carolina and elsewhere in the projected track of Hurricane Isabel are getting ready for action. ARES has been activated in many areas, and hams are recommended to be ready. NC ARES has an information page for the storm and Hurricane Watch Net has a good info page as well. Even outside the major storm area, hams are posted at shelters which are filling up with storm refugees."

239 comments

  1. Hams by pheared · · Score: 3, Funny

    Mmmm... Ham.

  2. Yum! by jargoone · · Score: 2, Funny

    hams are posted at shelters which are filling up with storm refugees

    Good thing too. All this evacuating is making me hungry!

    1. Re:Yum! by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Then you should try holding it in.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:Yum! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL come on! that's funny. what's wrong with you people?

  3. Good luck by CharlieG · · Score: 2, Redundant

    Good luck to those in the hurricane zone. We are in tropical storm warning

    73 de KC2IXE
    Queens County (NY) ARES EC
    Queens County Radio Officer - RACES

    --
    -- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
  4. Go hams go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My boyfriend is in his 20s and is a ham. People might think hams are a bunch of old farts, but that's not entirely true. When the grid is down, you can always count on hams to be there to help!

    1. Re:Go hams go! by dougmc · · Score: 1
      People might think hams are a bunch of old farts, but that's not entirely true.
      Perhaps it's not entirely true ... but it's *mostly* true.

      I'm 34. I just got into ham radio. I'm often the youngest guy around :)

    2. Re:Go hams go! by Anonym1ty · · Score: 2, Funny

      A woman on Slashdot who has a clue about ham radio?

      May I ask you what your gridsquare is?

    3. Re:Go hams go! by jxs2151 · · Score: 1

      Holy Shit that was funny!

    4. Re:Go hams go! by Ho-Lee-Cow! · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well this woman also has a clue about ham radio and my grid square is FM19.

      --
      In space, no one can hear you moo.
    5. Re:Go hams go! by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 1

      A woman on Slashdot who has a clue about ham radio?

      Who said it was a woman?

    6. Re:Go hams go! by theflea · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have much respect for hams and librarians. These mediums are the earlier "information superhighways", and the people who run them have a genuine desire to connect people with information.

      They're definitely OG (original geek).

    7. Re:Go hams go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why thank you :-) I am a library technician and my boyfriend has been into ham since his teens.

    8. Re:Go hams go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Hey, 34 is still pretty young compared to some of the old hams. I actually did a website for a Quarter Century Wireless Ass. chapter. The chapter president is in his 60s and quite web savvy. But again, we went to one Christmas ham party and we were the youngest in the room - there were even some old folks in their 90s there.

      When we went to a field day a few years ago, most of the hams were in their 20s, 30s and 40s.

      I have utmost respect for hams. They are the greatest tinkers and noodlers and geeks I know. One of our ham friends is also into amateur TV.

    9. Re:Go hams go! by myusername · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the respect. Although I'm not a librarian, I am a sysadmin for several libraries as well as a ham!
      librarians = the original "search engines"

      --
      Here a Sig There a Sig Everywhere a Sig Sig...
    10. Re:Go hams go! by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Maybe he is an old fart in a young farts body?

    11. Re:Go hams go! by gonzocanuck2 · · Score: 1

      No, there are many challenging aspects to ham that I'm sure many nerds would be interesting in. BF is nerdy, but certainly doesn't have an old man attitude :-) I don't know enough to get into details, but things like rigging a tower, moonbounces, field days, solar spots and scanning are very challenging forms of technology. Plus there is always the social aspect :-)

    12. Re:Go hams go! by christopherfinke · · Score: 1
      Wireless Ass. chapter
      Wireless Ass Chapter? Where do you put the receiver for a Wireless Ass?
    13. Re:Go hams go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well send us a photo of your breasts and we'll make up our own minds. Thanks!

    14. Re:Go hams go! by Anonym1ty · · Score: 1

      Oh Cool. I'm in EN62, but on the other side of the water form CmdrTaco

    15. Re:Go hams go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also love emergencies as it throws everything in the face of the idiots that say "ham radio is a waste of radio spectrum" or "great a bunch of nerds playing with their CB's"

      Only complete losers make those statments (Mayor of New Jersey for one of them)

      Without Ham radio we wouldnt have 50% of what we enjoy now in wireless communication as it was almost ALL invented by Hame Radio....

      WiFi? based on packet radio, invented by hams.

      GSM? same thing, cell phones? same thing...

      on and on and on......

      Ham radio = the most important public service right after the red cross, but with the emergency services workers. (Yes, Ham's are as important as firefighters, cops, EMT's)

      Salute your boyfriend.... get your ham radio ticket!

    16. Re:Go hams go! by anethema · · Score: 1

      I dunno. Im 21 and I just decided to become a ham, so I wrote the basic and advanced test. (I'm an EE, its all basic to me ;) ) My 21 year old friend got me into it. Many of the other people I met are young. CB is totally dead, at least here in canada. Its all VHF now.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
  5. Attention Michael by illsorted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's good to see that the Hams are in action and all, but do you think it's very responsible to be slashdotting the servers of organizations providing emergency services in a disaster?

    Eh?

    1. Re:Attention Michael by cwernli · · Score: 1

      As usual it's extremely difficult to decide on what is "The Right Thing (tm)": On one hand you're supposed to get the word out (and I don't think /. is the worst location, given the technology in question isn't really mainstream), whilst you shouldn't be accessing the ressources mentioned if you don't have to.

      The sensitive thing to do is probably to add a comment in the story that pointing out the criticality; better even if it is accompagnied by link-scrambling (something like http://slashdot.org/www.ares.org).

    2. Re:Attention Michael by Tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't you think that their website is not really the critical element of the emergency service?

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    3. Re:Attention Michael by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Y'know, "hams," whether meaning the meat or the radio operators, and "in action" are phrases one doesn't find in the same sentence very often.

    4. Re:Attention Michael by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Don't you think that their website is not really the critical element of the emergency service?

      Well, it shouldn't be, but better to find out now than later.

    5. Re:Attention Michael by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about you, but I certainly don't not think so.

  6. Blatant anti-vegetarianism by kinnell · · Score: 4, Funny
    hams are posted at shelters which are filling up with storm refugees

    That's all very well, but what about vegetarians? Are we going to just let them starve to death?

    --
    If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
    1. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Are we going to just let them starve to death?

      That's generally the best policy, in my opinion, since it's not really murder if you didn't do anything. If they complain a lot while they're dying I bludgeon them with a shovel (those fucking veggies have raised whining to a high art) to put them out of my misery.

    2. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes!

    3. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by dacarr · · Score: 2, Funny

      For vegetarians, we have a substitute called Tofu radio. Tofu radio operators however are hard to come by. 73 de KE6ISF

      --
      This sig no verb.
    4. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Zachary+Kessin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And Jews and Muslims? I tell you its just not right. How about some good roast beef? Or maybe some tzimmis or geffilta fish? And Blintzes! We should have blintzes.

      Ok with all seriousness, please be safe and careful everyone, huricanes are not for messing about do what you have to to get out of the way. With all love and prayers from Jerusalem.

      --
      Erlang Developer and podcaster
    5. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Darth_brooks · · Score: 1

      That's all very well, but what about vegetarians? Are we going to just let them starve to death?

      They can go outside when the eye of the storm passes overhead and graze on what's left of the front yard.

      --
      There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    6. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I think it's time to see just how much they are against eating meat.

    7. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Little+Brother · · Score: 1
      Talk about a ham!

      (Ok, we've now used three meainings of one word, anyone care to post fourth?)

      --

      Little Brother, watching the watchers

    8. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At this point, I'd be more concerned about the humanitarians. If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?

    9. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 1

      Long pig.

    10. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      Long pig.

      Time to start up the Alferd Packer memorial cafeteria.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    11. Re:Blatant anti-vegetarianism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, don't you mean Falafil, Shish kabob, Mulukheya bil Arnab, Koshery, and lebanesse shwarma?
      I, for one, welcome our new halal-meat delivering emergency overlords.

  7. These ppl do a nice job... by fox2mike · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Even though we have had so many advances in technology over the years, its the good ole HAMs that come to our rescue during times of trouble or disaster. Even during the recent blackouts in NYC, they kept in touch & relayed messages back & forth. Often there's just one link who keeps the messages going up & down.

    Hats off to you people & thanks for the wonderful job you do!

    1. Re:These ppl do a nice job... by DF5JT · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Hats off to you people & thanks for the wonderful job you do!"

      Do it as long as you can, because the very existence of ham radio is endangered. Powerline communication uses the entire shortwave spectrum and is being hailed as the only way to ensure a nationwide coverage of internet access. The telco and energy industry pushes the issue with the FCC right now and as things stand, the entire shortwave spectrum will be completely useless for any wireless service, be it ham radio, shortwave broadcast or other emergency service that need the shortwave frequency range.

      Take a look at:

      http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/08/08/2/?n c= 1//

      Same, by the way, in Europe:

      http://europa.eu.int/information_society/topics/ te lecoms/regulatory/publiconsult/powerline_communica tions/text_en.htm

      It's been a nice hobby for me during the last 25 years, but as things stand it won't last another 25 years.

      You might want to inform your congressman about the issue and tell him that in a couple of years hams might be unwilling to provide emergency services when ham radio as a hobby has systematically been sacrificed for the industry's greed for a useless technology.

    2. Re:These ppl do a nice job... by IM6100 · · Score: 1

      That's partly because 'the good ole HAMs' are often, indeed usually, up near the front leading the advances in technology. i.e.: Wireless? HAMs have been doing Packet radio since the early 80's. Don't misinterpet the fact that in certain HAM radio communities there are still people using Commodore 64's for various purposes. Using a good blend of the old and the new is an innovative thing.

      --
      A Good Intro to NetBS
    3. Re:These ppl do a nice job... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      You might want to inform your congressman about the issue and tell him that in a couple of years hams might be unwilling to provide emergency services when ham radio as a hobby has systematically been sacrificed for the industry's greed for a useless technology.
      As you well know, average folks don't know the first thing about your ham radio hobby, and they certainly don't have any idea that it might be imperiled by legislation which they wouldn't understand even if they did know about it. It would certainly be a shame to learn that ham operators are so miserable and bitter that, out of anger at millionaires and politicians, they would spitefully refuse to participate in helping normal folks during a natural disaster.

      Instead of spouting mean-spirited, inhumane threats, why not be proactive and try to inform people about the nature and status of ham radio in the modern world? Seriously...aside from posting on Slashdot, what are you doing to alert your community about this issue?

    4. Re:These ppl do a nice job... by DF5JT · · Score: 1

      It would certainly be a shame to learn that ham operators are so miserable and bitter that, out of anger at millionaires and politicians, they would spitefully refuse to participate in helping normal folks during a natural disaster.

      They would not refuse, they simplay would be
      *unable* to do so. They cannot use their gear in non-emergency times. With powerline communication in place everywhere, reception of any signal on shortwave becomes impossible.

      You expect ham radio operators to keep their gear in shape, knowing they can't use it for its original purpose?

      You are deluded.

  8. Feeling left out... by HeadbangerSmurf · · Score: 1, Funny

    Man, we don't get ANY good storms up here anymore. It used to snow like crazy back in the mid 80s. Now I'm lucky if it's a white Christmas! Time to relocate to NC so I can get involved in all that hot ham radio action!

    Tom
    KB8UFJ

    1. Re:Feeling left out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but you still get to see all the trailer trash from tornado country in the midwest to hurricane land out east. That's a whole years worth of FOX programming.

      Its the best kind of reality tv where you see the toothless Joe saying stuff like "I dont know why this happens to us....its the 5th time I lost my roof!"

      Maybe someone should rent a plane and spell out:

      M-O-V-E A-W-A-Y.

      zack

    2. Re:Feeling left out... by jhs7956 · · Score: 1

      Tom, I don't know where you are offhand. However, when I read your post I felt I had to answer. I live in northeastern Ohio within a mile of the south shore of Lake Erie, and believe me, we get white Christmases here every year. I moved here from the Cleveland area just before winter 1999, and haven't seen a winter without lots of snow yet in nearly four years of living in this area (east-central Lake County). Lest I forget, it snows like the dickens every winter where I used to live as well. I remember one winter (1978) when we had at least a foot of snow, and if I remember correctly, I lost an antenna one year as well when snow piled up on it. (Talk about a good time for ARES! I bet every ham in northern Ohio, or nearly every one, was active on ARES nets during that storm, which I assure you I will never forget!) I don't have any more trouble with wind and/or snow damage to antennas. I now live in an apartment and use my Icom IC-725 (100 watts)with a Barker & Williamson AP-10 apartment antenna. It works, as near as I can tell right now, but I haven't tested it yet for DX. Oh well, one of these days! 73, Jeff, WB8NHV Fairport Harbor, Ohio mailto: wb8nhv@arrl.net

    3. Re:Feeling left out... by HeadbangerSmurf · · Score: 1

      I'm in Nothern Michigan. When I lived up here between '83 and '87 it SNOWED! For the last 7 years it's been a JOKE! Yeah, we get snow, but nothing like I remember! I lived in Northeastern Indiana (right in the corner by Ohio and Michigan) growing up and I remember some real nice snow storms then too! I'm only a tech (working on code and general) and my yagi is in the rafter of my garage, so I don't have to worry about any wind or snow damage yet. That and my neighborhood association has rules against having a tower. Of course, I'm association president for the next two years so that will change! Can you ship us some snow this year?

      73! Tom - KB8UFJ - Traverse City, MI kbu8fj@arrl.net

  9. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Indeed. Ham radio is only for old farts who still use Morris code.

  10. storm + aerials by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How likely is it that their monsterous huge aerials will survive the winds ?

    1. Re:storm + aerials by N2UX · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most Hams ( myself included ) have probably already lowered their "monstrously huge" aerials and put up the 'emergency' antennae. My emergency kit consists of a handheld VHF radio, a backpack HF radio ( 20 watts, about the size 5 CD jewel cases stacked on top of each other ), a folded dipole antenna which is made of 300 ohm tv antenna cable, a 12 V gel cell, and a Solar Panel for recharging the gel cel when the sun does come out. It all fits in a small ruck sack and can be setup anywhere in minutes.

    2. Re:storm + aerials by NineNine · · Score: 0, Troll

      Thanks for the rundown of your equipment. That was very interesting. Absolutely pointless, but thrilling, nonetheless.

    3. Re:storm + aerials by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Properly installed per EIA RS-222 using the expected wind speeds in coastal North Carolina, the towers have a safety factor in excess of 1.5 for sustained 110MPH wind speed and further allowance for gusts. Isabel had sustained wind speed of 120MPH last I heard, so properly installed (guyed) towers should not fail on their own accord. The biggest risk is impact from flying debris, such as your house's roof or small boats.

    4. Re:storm + aerials by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NineNine, you fucking dumbass fix the site.

      There are some links which redirect to ads and crap, and there are some
      links which are of just bad content (e.g. ugly pussy, etc.)
      Why don't you add a third category to your three emoticons; just a checkbox
      indicating that a given site is ad-infested.

      Thank your for your attention sir, and Have a Wank day.

    5. Re:storm + aerials by NineNine · · Score: 1

      I know, I know. I've been busy with other businesses. I'll get to those evil fuckers soon enough.

  11. PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE LINKS . . . by a_timid_mouse · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... unless you really need to. The last thing the HAM radio folks in NC need is the slashdot effect.

    1. Re:PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE LINKS . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THEIR WEBSITE is relaying EMERGENCY TRAFFIC!!!!!!!

      Dumbasses.

    2. Re:PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE LINKS . . . by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 2, Informative

      And the hams that need the info have long ago been setup and no longer NEED to access this info. Besides, I have accessed this just now and it seems to be holding up to the slashdotting. I am actually kind of surprised that they are still up if these servers are in NC. It appears landfall is now happening. You should not worry about the slashdotting affecting the disaster relief. They're ok!

      --

      Gorkman

    3. Re:PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE LINKS . . . by jafuser · · Score: 3, Funny

      While you make a good point, I wouldn't worry too much. I'd take a guess that they probably have a reliable backup plan for communications. =)

      --
      Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
    4. Re:PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE LINKS . . . by rhkaloge · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, I clicked on all the links, and none of them seem to be affected.

    5. Re:PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THE LINKS . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Partially relevant reply. Offtopic rambling to fill up space.

      Callsign.

  12. 14.325 Hurricane net by ch-chuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    get real time reports on condition in the affected area. Net control is actually in Austin TX.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  13. Re:Who needs ham radio? by doppleganger871 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ha. Can you hear me now? Nope? HOw about now? NOpe... da-dit-da-da-etc... Yep, heard that.

  14. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Well, only in the USofA.

    Other countries are dumping Morresey Code as requirement.

  15. Radio hams save the day again.. by adeyadey · · Score: 2

    Great stuff, I can just see Tony hancock doing the Radio ham sketch.. If you have never heard it, tune into BBC7 on a tues and you may catch the original radio broadcast.. :-)

    --
    "You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
    1. Re:Radio hams save the day again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is a not raining here in Tokyo also!

  16. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Indeed about the old farts. Most of them can't get around their fleamarkets without a "Little Rascal" or other motorized wheelchair-like device. God forbid they have to walk more than an 1/8 mile from the parking lot to the food vendors.

  17. They'll also be standing by. . . by bplipschitz · · Score: 5, Informative

    around the rest of the country, to relay Health & Welfare traffic during the aftermath.

    Some other frequencies of interest:

    14.265 MHz [USB] Salvation Army SATERN net.
    7.232 MHz [LSB] Tarheel net [daytime]
    3.923 MHz [LSB] Tarheel net [after 7:30 pm]
    3.907 MHz [LSB] Coastal Carolina net.

    The nice thing about radio is, as long as you're only listening, it doesn't suffer from the ./ effect!

    1. Re:They'll also be standing by. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i got my R.L. Drake tuned to 14325

    2. Re:They'll also be standing by. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The nice thing about radio is, as long as you're only listening, it doesn't suffer from the ./ effect!

      Speaking of which, please unplug the microphone, keyer, etc. before listening to these frequencies. If your transceiver has a switch to lock out the transmit function, use it. Please avoid accidental interference with the emergency nets!

      [KR0U]

    3. Re:They'll also be standing by. . . by BudUgly · · Score: 1
      Please only relay traffic coming from the disaster area!!

      It goes against most of the Amateur Radio community, but it is ludicrous to flood a devestated area with Health & Welfare traffic. It simply will never get delivered and it burdens the overall relief effort.

      Better yet, establish an out-of-area contact for yourself and send one message (radio, cell, Internet, etc) out of the disaster area to one person who is safe and sound elsewhere. Then that person can contact everyone else in the family, circle of friends, etc.

      The mistake I saw during Hurricane Iniki on Kauai in 1992 came from the demand of those traffic nets to get those HW messages passed. They never were delivered and they sat on packet radio BBS' until deleted.

      A lot of these traffic nets thought they were helping the relief effort by sending the HW traffic into the disaster area. Instead, those operators should have stood by and waited for someone on Kauai to come up and pass traffic out of the disaster area. That didn't happen much because most hams on the island went to help either themselves or the American Red Cross.

  18. good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    To all those in the area where it's going to hit, good luck and hold on to your hats.

  19. radio braces! by happyfrogcow · · Score: 4, Funny
    Amateur Radio Braces for Hurricane Isabel


    When I was young I always wished my braces could play the radio. Now a stinkin hurricane gets radio braces. Feh!

    Atleast they're the amateur model..
  20. WiFi and Hurricanes by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It will be interesting to see if any building-to-building WiFi links or other wireless networking tech can operate in a hurricane. I'd bet that high rain, very wet vegitation, and the odd flying bit of sheet metal will kill reception or reduce reliability. Also, external high gain antennas will be prone to wind-induced misaligment and damage.

    Isabel should be an interesting test of any mesh networks in the area -- assuming that they have independent power sources, of course.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:WiFi and Hurricanes by dougmc · · Score: 1
      It will be interesting to see if any building-to-building WiFi links or other wireless networking tech can operate in a hurricane.
      It'll be more interesting to see if there's anybody at work to even care if the network is up :)

      After a hurricane, I imagine that people are more concerned that the windows didn't break and that the place didn't flood than if the database (backup, porn, whatever) copy succeeded to the other across the microwave link :)

    2. Re:WiFi and Hurricanes by pyser · · Score: 1

      WiFi operates on a frequency band (2.4-2.5 GHz) that is very susceptible to rain fade. That's why microwave ovens operate at 2.45 GHz -- it's the resonant frequency of the water molecule. It's called the "garbage band" because there are so many unlicensed services operating there since it's useless for anything that's supposed to be reliable.

    3. Re:WiFi and Hurricanes by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Well, after the equipment is blown here, I'll let you know if it still works.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:WiFi and Hurricanes by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 2, Informative
      I ran a WIFI link between my apartment and my office for a year and a half. Wind was OK. Rain was OK. Blustery rain completely frelled the signal.

      Recall, 2.4Ghz is in the microwave region. Your cup of coffee is warmed up in the microwave oven because water absorbs microwave energy like a sponge.

      Now, an infared LASER. That might work...

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    5. Re:WiFi and Hurricanes by jumpingfred · · Score: 1

      Water does not absorb microwave radiation like a sponge. If it did you micro wave would not work as well. The frequency for maximum absorbtion by water is about 10GHz your micro wave operates at about 2.5 GHz.

    6. Re:WiFi and Hurricanes by Idarubicin · · Score: 1
      Now, an infared LASER. That might work...

      The problem with a laser is that it is inherently unidirectional. You get great signal propagation at low power, but you have to aim it really carefully to get anything at all.

      In the rain, infrared lasers would be in a bit of trouble--raindrops will readily scatter infrared light (coherent and otherwise). Most IR wavelengths are also easily absorbed by water--one of the reasons why infrared telescopes have to be located in space.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  21. Re:Who needs ham radio? by bplipschitz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    --
    We've got cellphones! Everyone knows how great cellphones work in an emergency. Viva la cellphone!

    Ham radio is antiquated. I can buy 2 FRS radios at Wal-Mart for 30 dollars and will be able to talk a whopping 1/2 mile.
    --

    And when Isabel destroys many of the cell towers, where will you be then? Unless you have a satphone your Aunt Tilly in Burbank won't know what's become of you. She could get a message relayed via ham radio, with a response to find out that you are ok, although maniacally clutching your cell phone.

    Also, FRS radios and Ham Radio are not the same thing, by a long shot.

  22. Re:Who needs ham radio? by pe1rxq · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cellphones relly on infrastructure....
    A shortwave radio can communicate with somebody litterally on the other side of the globe without any additional infrastructure.

    Jeroen

    --
    Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
  23. Re:Who needs ham radio? by mikesmind · · Score: 1

    Morse code is a critical skill that should not become a dead skill. Sure, it may take an apocolyptic disaster, but there could be scenerios where only morse is working. You never know what you have lost until it is gone.

    --
    www.mikesmind.com - www.daddyworkathome.com - www.freetofarm.org - www.tenfoottable.com
  24. PLC interference by Crusty+Oldman · · Score: 1

    Better hope the interference from the power line carriers will be low enough for the hams to do their job.

    1. Re:PLC interference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DON'T worry... it won't. I have to drive 20 miles out of town to get away from the noise. FCC pandering idiots.

      de w4axe

  25. Hol[e]y Flying Cow! by Compact+Dick · · Score: 1

    As long as this doesn't result in more man-made disasters like Twister, I'm not complaining.

  26. I think... by Spamalamadingdong · · Score: 1

    ... someone needs an upgraded sarcasm detector.

  27. Re:Up-to-date information on Isabel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gaaah!!!

  28. PARENT IS GOATSE LINK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    see subject

  29. Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how ... by wherley · · Score: 5, Informative

    First, here is some background info.

    Second, study up for the 35 question multiple choice exam using the Now You're Talking book.

    Third, take your test.

    Then get some gear - you'll be the one helping out in the next disaster in your area!

    K9JRW

  30. what about the antennae by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    wont that 60ft yagi on a 125ft beam be smashed to bits of aluminium or the HF 300m dipole be turned into worthless ball of wire ?

    or is it just v/uhf and car rigs ?

    i know i wouldn't want to be cranking my tower up in hurricanes
    (if you excuse the pun ladies)

    1. Re:what about the antennae by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better stop cranking your tower, and instead read about your subject before posting.

      And get a decent dictionary too. You misspelled antenna.

    2. Re:what about the antennae by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not many people use the 300m band either.

  31. so hopefully we learned from the last blackout? by *weasel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and 50 million people won't be shafted again when Isabel knocks out power across the eastern seaboard, tripping power grids thousands of miles away?

    because i'm in detroit, and I don't exactly have the utmost faith that they've corrected the problem already. particularly since they haven't even identified it yet.

    at least i'm all stocked up again.
    unfortunately my generator hasn't arrived yet.

    --
    // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    1. Re:so hopefully we learned from the last blackout? by vhfer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most hams have radios both in the house and in the car, plus a selection of handhelds. Those that typically volunteer keep a bunch of batteries charged up for all their handhelds, maintain car chargers and alternate power sources, and etc. They are darn good and ready for this kind of thing, especially a hurricane they've seen coming for over a week.

    2. Re:so hopefully we learned from the last blackout? by ryanvm · · Score: 1

      Yes, God forbid you endure 8 hours without power. I hope you have the strength of character to survive.

    3. Re:so hopefully we learned from the last blackout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      upon re-reading i can see that subtle sarcasm doesn't transfer well in text. should've added a /sarcasm tag there.

      non-sarcastic stance:
      expected power-outages from severe weather never cause extended grid failures, precisely because they are expected. there doubtlessly have been generators running since this morning in anticipation - not to mention the lower power load as many people power down, leave town, and most businesses have closed. it's not like power grids failed when the central US was getting dumped on recently.

      i was more making a backhanded slap at the people (removed from the central hurricane path) i hear online, and even in my own area having such conversations. just last night i overheard just such from someone at the grocery store who was justifying their copious bottled water and canned food purchase to the disinterested clerk.

      while i would never make fun of someone for having an emergency stash prepared for the unknown - expecting this anticipated (overhyped) event to cause such problems is in my mind, a bit more than unreasonable.

      the moderation total on my original post concerns me. meta-mods feel free to correct.

    4. Re:so hopefully we learned from the last blackout? by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 1
      (Sarcasm) I hear you. Wash the town down the street for all I care. Just let me keep my internet connection and PS2 running.

      The PS2 is waterproof, isn't it?

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    5. Re:so hopefully we learned from the last blackout? by chiph · · Score: 1

      North Carolina is third in the nation in number of hurricanes that make landfall (behind Florida and Texas). Our power grid is much more resiliant than the one in the Northeast because we *do* get these storms every few years.

      Sure, you'll have neighborhoods without power (last news report I heard was 160,000 homes without power), but that's the last-mile effect as applied to 60Hz AC.

      The newer neighborhoods are all going to underground utilities (mainly for aesthetic reasons), so if their feeder circuit goes down, a lot of homes drop off at once. By the same token, when the feeder is restored, you get all those homes back on the grid (and a hell of a power surge!)

      So far I've been lucky -- my UPS has kicked in a few times, but since about 5pm the lights have been pretty stable. A few neighbors have lost window screens, a couple of trees have snapped, and I've seen a few roof shingles go by, but no major damage.

      Chip H.

  32. Look at the bands by The+Tyro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Depends on what kind of aerial you're talking about... if you mean 2meter, 440, etc, then yes... a tall tower (typically for a repeater, and that might not survive the hurricaine) facilitates communications, since these bands tend to be line-of-sight.

    However, if you read the article, you'll notice they are using the 80-meter band, which is NOT line-of-sight. Tall antennas are not as critical... you can rig up a dipole with some wire after the storm passes, and get passable reception.

    aerials, schmaerials... a true ham is a master at jury-rigging stuff, including antennas.

    --
    Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
    1. Re:Look at the bands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      ...a true ham is a master at jury-rigging stuff, including antennas.
      Especially antennas! Real Hams make antennas from found objects, like slinkys and drain pipes. Yes, you really can use a slinky, I've used one on 20m and 6m.
    2. Re:Look at the bands by bryanthompson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was at a ham festival in Victoria Springs, Nebraska a few years ago where we built an antenna out of clothesline and copper wire. It was so badass. I'm still new to the ham world, but when some of the older guys saw what we were doing, they ran in and got all kinds of tuners and books of formula. Anyway, with that antenna we were able to listen in on an easter egg hunt, which was pretty sweet. hams rock

    3. Re:Look at the bands by Starmaven · · Score: 1
      A 2M quarter-wave vertical isn't 'monstrous huge.' It's 50cm long.

      -StarMaven

      --

      -StarMaven

  33. Never mind hams , what about CB? by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does anyone (apart from truckers naturally) use CB radio anymore? Is it ever used in these sorts of scenarios?

    1. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      no

      unless a trucker is in trouble.

      it's unusable with legal equipment because the truckers are pushing 50000 watts out of a VERY shitty amp and splattering ALL OVER the nearby ham bands. Legal is 4 (yes FOUR) watts. 12 if using SSB. try outtalking 50000 watts with 4 watts. not going to happen.

      de w4axe

    2. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by vhfer · · Score: 3, Informative

      CB is limited by FCC regs to 4 watts (I think) whereas licensed hams are limited to 1500 watts. We have dozens of bands to choose from and are able to pick a band with local, regional, or national/worldwide characteristics that will work best for situation. Many Hams are volunteers and train for emergencies, allowing them to work right alongside FEMA, Red Cross, National Guard, local government and local emergency management. Hams are usually the first communications on the scene of an emergency and often the only reliable communications for the first half or more of any disaster. Hams repeatedly garner praise from served agencies after the emergency is passed. You don't typically hear similar things CB'ers. Nothing wrong with them. In fact, there's lot's of CB's that have gone the extra step and gotten a ham license, and some have become active volunteers. My $0.02

    3. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I've heard this rumor many times, but have yet to see it.
      Most of the truckers I see/hear have legal radios
      but antennas that look good rather than work well.

      When I tune my HAM mobile to ch19 I rarely hear anyone more than 20 miles away, about the same range as a 5 watt FM HT.

      On some other hand, I guess the less noisy bands go on forever don't they? I've only heard as far away as spain in my mini-van, but this is my first year.

      73 de N0SX

    4. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      50KW??? Ok , 5KW I could just about belive but not only would a 50KW AM amplifier be almost the same size as the trucks engine but it would pretty
      much kill any electronic equipment within a few hundred meters including whats in the truck itself! Sounds like an urban myth to me.

    5. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by vortexf5 · · Score: 1

      Just to expand on this, CB operates around 27 MHz, which during this period of declining sunspot activity will not provide very reliable communications. OTOH, amateur radio has spectrum allocations all over the place from 1.8 MHz and up. Amateurs can almost always find a band where they have acceptible propagation.

      73, N0EYE

      --
      I'm angry, and I Meta Moderate!
    6. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cb is used for people constantly yelling in to the microphone....

      "hellloooo...... hellllooo... reading the mail..... hellllloo.... helllllooo.... reading the mail....."

      or someone talking so fast with a fricking echo microphone turned way up..."smaamaba tususua coucococld yououou oohohohohohhh cococopppperrr... hehehehehehehehehe....... BEEP!"

      Cb is a wasteland that everyone has abandoned as the extreme morons have taken it over running 1000 watts from easy to get CB linear amps from truck stops (every truckstop I go to HAS these damned things)

    7. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Anonym1ty · · Score: 1

      Amateurs can almost always find a band where they have acceptible propagation.

      Well except when trying to show ham radio to someone last night

    8. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's true! Check out bigradios.com and learn all about "keydown" competitions. There are some videos too but you never see the whole thing because the camera invariably spits out the tape and dies once the 50kW RF hits it.

    9. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by fatboy · · Score: 1

      Well except when trying to show ham radio to someone last night Huh? Maybe the upper bands. On many occasions I have worked the other side of the plant, past midnight localtime, on 40 meters. You just have to have an antenna that performs well on the lower bands.

      --
      --fatboy
    10. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do know several saltwater fishermen use CB radios for general talk between boats/home basestation. Other than them and truckers, CB isn't used by many other groups.

    11. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Anonym1ty · · Score: 1

      No there was QRM on 40 meters, I could hear all the broadcasters but very few hams. 20 Meters had some but not many. 75 Meters was noisey.

      What got me is I couldn't hear anyone on CW at all.

      I checked everything again and again and nothing was wrong. and on the weekend I was working Siberia and the canarey islands so I know it works!

      This was using a Swan 500CX with External VFO and a dipole

      -. ----. .-. --. -..-
    12. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by vhfer · · Score: 1
      Just to expand on your expansion, propagation is just what the FCC rules on CB are designed to suppress; it's designed to be a local only communication method, or at least if you follow the regs. That's why the 4-watt limit etc.

      Hams have their own satellites, for heaven's sake. Talk about long-range, all you need is a handheld and an "arrow" (yagi antenna with a hand grip) and a orbital table. And a decent watch.

    13. Re:Never mind hams , what about CB? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      How convenient ;)

  34. No Porn On Amateur Radio != Geek Factor by jbottero · · Score: 1

    Amateur radio will never be big with Slashdot readers (although they try to kiss up to it for the geek factor). Why? No porn (rim shot!)....

    1. Re:No Porn On Amateur Radio != Geek Factor by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, amateur radio had a geek following when your grandfather was still in diapers.

    2. Re:No Porn On Amateur Radio != Geek Factor by W2IRT · · Score: 4, Funny
      Amateur radio will never be big with Slashdot readers. Why? No porn!

      Depends on your definition of pr0n I suppose. If you mean nekkid wimmin, well, yeah. If you mean images so vile that they go against the morals of a decent and civil society, then Pictures from the Dayton hamfest surely qualify.

      Think 22,000 sweaty, smelly, unbathed, short, fat, old, bald white guys.

      On second though, Don't.

      Still one of my guilty pleasures even though it's become a real dive in the past 10 years or so.

      --
      Cheers, Peter, W2IRT
    3. Re:No Porn On Amateur Radio != Geek Factor by bryanthompson · · Score: 1

      actually... it's possible to get porn over ham. You have to use Packet. I'm sure there's another ham out there who can explain it better than me, but it CAN be done! just... very... very slowly.

    4. Re:No Porn On Amateur Radio != Geek Factor by gonzocanuck2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually you cannot transmit offensive messages over ham bands, that is the realm of CB'ers, who tend to be loathed by hams. Ham radio requires a licence for operators, CB bands do not.

      Finally I was bothered to find an old nick...didn't realize I had one at my current email address :-) Posted too many AC comments :-)

    5. Re:No Porn On Amateur Radio != Geek Factor by SenorMooCow · · Score: 1

      HAMs were sending pictures and things before there was an internet over packet. You connect a packet controller to a computer and that to a radio and there were networks of HAMs sending crap to each other (and yes I'm sure there was porn).

      --
      I run a Debian/Kernel/Knoppix Mirror: (http|ftp|rsync)://debian.ams.sunysb.edu/
      apt-get @ > 5MBps == teh win!
    6. Re:No Porn On Amateur Radio != Geek Factor by bscabl · · Score: 1

      ive always been a scanner nut....before i discovered computers i was into cb and scanners... too young to afford ham @ the time tho, then i found the pc

  35. Not to be unnecessarily duplicative, but by Spamalamadingdong · · Score: 4, Informative
    How likely is it that their monsterous huge aerials will survive the winds ?
    Doesn't matter to the V/UHF people very much, nor is it crippling to the HF operators. If the beam on the tower comes down, any decent piece of wire and an antenna tuner become a usable "long wire" antenna. Hams have "Field Day" every year where they go off in a field somewhere, operate from tents and trailers and see how many stations they can contact; this is practice for communications during emergencies.
  36. hey by dj_paulgibbs · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm a vegetarian you insensitive clod!!!

  37. Re:He can't help it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >> The thought of ham in action gets him excited.

    Is that the sequel to 'Hams Gone Wild' ?

  38. Note On Price Of Gear by Little+Brother · · Score: 1

    A simple handheld 2 meter radio (for local area use) is available for under $100 new. If you're really cheap you can get a used rig (or if you want someting better than the 2meter HT I'm mentioning). Mobile (read car-mounted) radios with somewhat longer range start at about $150. It isn't that expensive, but if you still can't afford it, see if there is a club in your area, if so there might be somebody willing to loan or sell you some of their old gear. If you STILL can't afford it, well, you CAN always make your own CW transceiver.

    --

    Little Brother, watching the watchers

    1. Re:Note On Price Of Gear by vhfer · · Score: 1

      I got my wife (N9YKB) a FT1500, a bulletproof little radio for her car. Nice! Tiny speaker, though, she was really glad when I plugged in an outboard one. Small, rugged, alphanumeric display so she doesn't have to remember what frequency is what repeater. And I've seen them on sale for $139.

    2. Re:Note On Price Of Gear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parent is talking about the Yaesu FT-1500M. GREAT little radio. I managaed to pick one up for $125 (try www.hamradio.com, select Yaesu from the drop down list). I used this radio for nearly 6 months mobile...now I use it in my doorm room 30' in the air with a jpole.
      -KD5UZZ

  39. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Ratphace · · Score: 1


    Well, you are incorrect, in fact, morse code is only the smaller portion of Ameteur Radio. There is a large spectrum, and probably the better bulk of people are license to use voice over the ham bands.

    The first license, the Novice is limited to sending morse code. The second license, Technician, can use voice on limited frequencies. The third, General, cause use a lot of voice frequencies, as can the last two license levels.

    So don't just think of "Ham Radio" users as nothing more than morse code, because there is more to it than that.

  40. way to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good job of slashdotting the hurricane watch site.

  41. Why care about WiFi and Hurricanes by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree that current casual applications of wireless networking mean that few will care about the reliability of these networks. Yet proponents of the technology would have us use wireless in more intensive and all-encompassing ways.

    Today, nobody really cares if the laptop in an empty and dark executive office becomes disconnected during a hurricane. Tomorrow, we may care a great deal if our phone/data networks or municipal services control systems are knocked offline because an underlying wireless network failed.

    Personally, I suspect that wireless is more robust than wireline because physical wires are so prone to flooding or downed trees. But I would like to see examples, like those provided by Isabel, on how these systems operate during and survive natural disasters.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Why care about WiFi and Hurricanes by dougmc · · Score: 3, Informative
      Tomorrow, we may care a great deal if our phone/data networks or municipal services control systems are knocked offline because an underlying wireless network failed.
      Actually, I was going to continue along these lines, but got distracted and forgot to finish my post.

      People care if their cell phones work during a crisis *today*. This is nothing new, and it's not likely to stop being important tomorrow.

      We (as in the human race) have been using microwave links to transmit phone data for decades now. How they handle bad weather is very well known, and I'll bet a few minutes of google searching will find you lots of data on that.

      (From what I've found, the error rate goes up in very heavy rain, but the links continue to work. Of course, if the wind knocks the tower over, pulls the dish off or knocks out power, it's going to break.)

      WiFi does use microwaves to transmit it's data, but the name `WiFi' itself limits you to networks based on IEEE 802.11 specifications. If you're not using 802.11 specifications, it's not WiFi ... it's something else.

      Cell phone data is not routed over WiFi networks to any signifigant degree now, and this isn't likely to change in the future. Phone companies do use similar technologies, but they don't call it WiFi.

      And that's why what happens to WiFi during a storm isn't *that* important in the grand scheme of things.

  42. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by conan_albrecht · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the info. I've been wanting to get my license but just haven't gotten around to it. These links are what I need.

  43. Re:Who needs ham radio? by pyser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Should have been modded Insightful, not merely Funny.

    CW (Morse code) is often the only way to get a message through when all other methods fail. All you need to be able to do is switch a carrier on and off. And it can be done with very low power.

    And to think the ITU now allows countries to do away with the Morse requirement for operation under 30 MHz. (There are petitions before the FCC to do this in the US.)

  44. Tony hancock saves the day again.. by adeyadey · · Score: 1

    For example..

    "Cor blimey, would you look at that great big hurricane out there! GLK Florida, is there anyone out there? Stone the bleedin' crows, Im off for a fag and a pint.."

    --
    "You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
  45. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Little+Brother · · Score: 3, Informative
    Hey, your information is a little bit antiquated. The novice license is no longer being issued making theTechnician the first license. (No morse code required to get this one!) If you learn morse code you can gain the code priveliges in HF that used to be in the Novice allocation. Then comes general which is the same as its ever been. Then Extra which has full priveliges allowed to any Ham. (The old Advanced liscense btw is also no longer being issued)

    As far as your main point goes, though, right on! It is even better made than before, as you don't need any code whatever to get started.

    73 de KG4WWN

    --

    Little Brother, watching the watchers

  46. More slightly on-topic images.. by TheTomcat · · Score: 1

    Check out:

    here, here and here

    This one is my favorite.

    "Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 6.1)" blah blah blah...

    S

    1. Re:More slightly on-topic images.. by Zonekeeper · · Score: 0

      What are those little sprites taking off out of the atmosphere? I've heard of them...but they're just weird looking...

  47. HAMs are just whiners by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 0, Troll

    See, when we really need HAM radios is when something like Isabel comes along. But she's going to knock out all the power lines anyway, so hams should just stop complaining.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  48. Suspicious of those ham radio guys by British · · Score: 4, Funny

    You ever notice when disaster strikes(weather, blackouts, etc), those ham radio people are always there? Hmmm..

    1. Re:Suspicious of those ham radio guys by Anonym1ty · · Score: 1

      We're actually ALWAYS there. We're usualy just lurking for a disaster.

      Well, either that or trying to find the next coffee clutch

  49. Re:CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    73 de GNAA

  50. Obligitory Simpsons Quote... by GeneralEmergency · · Score: 2, Funny


    "Marge, prepare the emergency ham!"
    </HOMER>

    --
    "A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
    GeneralEmergency
  51. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Ratphace · · Score: 1


    Ahh, most excellent. Thanks for the information, I haven't been an active Ham for about 12 years now as I have just been busy with other things. But keep saying I am going to buy a new rig and get back into it...
    Guess it's time to get rid of my Novice status then! :)

    Thanks again...

  52. Re:Who needs ham radio? by pyser · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Novice license is no longer available. Existing Novices can continue to operate.

    The Technician license grants nearly all privileges above 50 MHz, but Techs are only allowed to operate HF (below 30 MHz) if they've passed the Morse Code test, and then only Morse Code at low power (and one phone allocation on 10 meters) in a few small slices of spectrum.

    General class licensees have some privileges on all amateur bands, including voice, data, and video where it's allowed. Extra Class operators have full privileges.

    Here is a good summary of the license classes and operating privileges.

  53. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Rorschach1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    And don't let the test scare you off. Any self respecting geek ought to be able to learn the test material in a couple afternoons.

    I got my Novice license at about age 11. I'd stayed with Technician class for years, then they dropped the 20 wpm code requirement for Extra. It took me about 8 hours of studying to prepare for the test and I passed with a 96%.

    If you're reading slashdot, and you already use things like FRS radios, there's no excuse for not getting a license and earning the ability to use REAL equipment.

    Plus, you can run higher power 802.11b. =]

    N1VG

  54. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Ratphace · · Score: 1


    Also, I should have probably noted that I don't know anyone that has ever used "morris code", but I do know a lot of people that use and like "morse code" :)

    If you are going to bash something, at least know what it is you are bashing and don't make yourself look anymore the fool than you already are...

  55. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by kc9biw · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is some quick general info I normally hand out.

    There are 4 current classes you could get. To get one, you need to one
    before it, ie if you want general, you need to have tech and tech + morse
    first.

    Technician
    Technician + Plus morse code
    General
    Extra

    The test is only $10 and lasts for 10 years. to renew, you just have
    to fill in some paper work and send it into the FCC.

    The test is 35 multiple choice questions.

    The Technician class Syllabus is here
    http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/tech-syllabus.ht ml

    To find a testing center in your area.
    http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/examsearch.phtm l

    Question pool for Technician class (I printed these out and read over them twice and was able to pass the test)

    http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/tech2003.txt
    http:/ /www.arrl.org/arrlvec/2003Technician_graphic s.pdf

    Online Practice test
    http://www.qrz.com/testing.html

  56. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by afternoon_nap · · Score: 1

    I'm taking my Technician's test this saturday in the Little Rock hamfest at the Alltell arena.

    Testing begins at 8am, no reservations accepted.

    I've sold some unused hardware and have a budget to buy a mobile 2m unit and a decent dual band HT.

  57. Re:hurricane coincidence.. by adeyadey · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Nope, 100% pure coincidence.

    Other famous coincidences in the World:

    The USA spends $xxxx Billion liberating Kuwait and Iraq, which coincidentally have a lot of oil. Iraq is to be divided into three distinct regions - regular, premium, unleaded.

    fill in your own here..

    --
    "You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
  58. Everything works... by pyser · · Score: 2, Informative

    Even a light bulb can be used to make contacts around the world.

  59. Licensed Geek Hobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is ham radio the only licensed geek hobby?
    dah di dah

  60. isabel blog by gritz · · Score: 0

    washingtonnc.org has someone blogging about the storm.

    1. Re:isabel blog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An Isabel Blog! Pretentious amateur journalist wannabe without the good sense God gave geese to get the fuck out of a hurricane. Oh, Boy!! I'll click right over there...

    2. Re:isabel blog by gritz · · Score: 0

      hehe. so true.

    3. Re:isabel blog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funniest thing I've seen on /. in weeks! Too bad you posted as an AC.

  61. Is /. being perverse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'r slashdotting a page meant for emergency communications.

    You have the right to do it, but a little common sense please?

  62. Re:Who needs ham radio? by The+Wookie · · Score: 1

    My cat speaks Morris code...

    Meeeeooooooww Meeeeooooooww....Meow....Meeeeooooooww Meeeeooooooww Meeeeooooooww....Meow Meeeeooooooww Meeeeooooooww........Meeeeooooooww Meeeeooooooww....Meow Meow....Meeeeooooooww Meow Meow Meeeeooooooww

  63. I drank by geekoid · · Score: 1

    some hams, does that count?

    *Not really true, I do have standards.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  64. Ham is the Linux of Radio by toofanx · · Score: 1
    I see a lot of parallels between "Free Software" and Ham radio. Ham is about using barebones, non-proprietary "technology" to do what cellphones and other radio devices do. "Helping your neighbor"

    There are some advantages:
    1. Education - people are encouraged to know about the technology, rather than blindly using the technology
    2. Transparency - from Education, the users get to see what the technology is capable of/in capable of.
    3. Reliability - from Transparency, the users are able to use the technology more appropiately.

    More than anything, Ham brings together a lot of like minded people - people who are interested in radio communication, it is great fun - just like a lot of people have fun using Linux, or doing any other amateur activity - which some other group would find very "ancient".

    Working with "barebone stuff" can be a lot more satisfying than working with cool-looking, pseudo-hi-tech gadgets.

    1. Re:Ham is the Linux of Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bravo!

      I never thought of it (Ham Radio) that way, but I guess you're right.

      So why is it that a lot of /.ers seem anti-Ham?

    2. Re:Ham is the Linux of Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dare I suggest that they are just kneejerking to the same stereotype as held by the pinhead who started this thread ... "Ham radio is only for old farts who still use Morris code" ?

    3. Re:Ham is the Linux of Radio by Little+Brother · · Score: 1

      They probably knew a Ham once. They were having trouble with their cell WiFi so the ham made an antenna out of paperclips and bubblegum and solved a several week long problem. The poor slashdot geek has been feeling inadaquate ever since and harbours feelings of resentment against the entire Ham community.

      --

      Little Brother, watching the watchers

    4. Re:Ham is the Linux of Radio by toofanx · · Score: 1
      The best explanation I can think of is generation gap. Someone once told me that things that were in fashion during someone's time tend to go out of fashion in their children's time. Also, they are likely to come back in fashion, during their grandchildren's time.

      I also want to point out that /.ers seem anti-Ham, but Linux is not. Linux has special features for packet radio. I kind of believe that /.ers don't represent the Linux community anymore.

    5. Re:Ham is the Linux of Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, i see those parallels. I have always been interrested in radio (electronics in general), and love Linux to :)
      Well, i'm going to get myself a HAM licence, learn Morse code, built a QRP-rig with a tubed 0.5 W Hartley oscillator and a regen receiver. I want to be a TRUE RADIO OPERATOR :). Let's not forget the past or the history, it is important!!

      A big salute to all HAM's, Tesla, Marconi and all the others!!

      Norveien

  65. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you like to get inspired while studying for your license, get one SWL SSB receiver and start monitoring the amateur radio traffic

    SWL - Receive only requires no licencing in most parts of world...

    Few links off google :
    http://listings.ebay.com/pool2/listings/endtoda y/a ll/category1500/?from=R0
    http://www.radioworld.ca /swscan/swsc.php

  66. Re:Who needs ham radio? by jxs2151 · · Score: 2, Funny
    Oh, please tell me that we hams are not exporting our inane Morse Code argument to Slashdot.

    Please, oh please, let's not damage ham radio's image this way. Some folks here on ./ still think we are okay.

  67. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 3, Informative

    I would like to point out that getting the gear needn't be expensive. These people have handheld 2-meter sets that cost less than most gamer-grade video cards. My 2-meter handheld, a Yaesu VX-5R, retails for $250 and Yaesu often has it on sale for around $200. It puts out 5 watts (sufficient for all the local repeaters), will do 6 meters and 440 as well, has a wide-ranging receiver, and isn't all that much bigger or heavier than my cell phone.

    That will be sufficient for you to get into your local ARES net to prepare for emergencies in your area.

    --
    Someone you trust is one of us.
  68. Skywarn comes up at 2pm for LWX by Ho-Lee-Cow! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've never done an extended or widespread Skywarn activation before. All of the auxillary nets are coming up along with the main net out of LWX. It's kind of exciting to see everyone lining up to go down to NWS and getting their systems on backup power--it's really the kind of thing that we do all this tinkering for.

    --
    In space, no one can hear you moo.
  69. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by pirodude · · Score: 1

    I've always heard this thing about running higher 802.11b. How much can we pump it up if we're licensed?

  70. Possible Flooding as result of Isabel by r3mdh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The last thing we need in Ohio is more rain (we're already over 9 inches above normal for the year), and Isabel threatens to add more precipitation to our area. Since we're so over saturated, nearly every time it rains, our areas go into automatic flood watch. As amateur radio operators, my wife and I provided communications for the American Red Cross for flood victims in the Stark County area in late July. Looks like we might be called to action again.

    73 de KC8WVJ (and KC8WVK - my wife)

  71. morris code... by geekoid · · Score: 1

    meow meow meow mow mow mow meow meow meow

    and now for meaningless drival to get mast the compression filter.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  72. LOL I am a woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    > Who said it was a woman?

    My BF and I actually met on Slashdot three years ago...we're engaged. I had a Slashdot account, but lost the password and the email address associated with the account was long gone...so I haven't bothered to re-register. I suppose I could provide you with some proof of my gender, but as they say on the Internet, those could be anyone's breasts :-)

    1. Re:LOL I am a woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "those could be anyone's breasts"

      *faint*

    2. Re:LOL I am a woman by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 1

      You never mentioned that in the orignal post. Being /., who knows?

      Not that there's anything wrong with that...

    3. Re:LOL I am a woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh hey, it's no worries :-) I guess I should have mentioned it.

  73. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    There are 4 current classes you could get. To get one, you need to one before it, ie if you want general, you need to have tech and tech + morse first.

    Technically you only have to pass the test for the class before it. So if you want general, you only have to pass the tests for tech + morse and general. Which you can easily do in an afternoon.

    You don't actually have to pass and be issued a tech license, then a tech + morse license, then a general license. I just wanted to clarify that since I didn't think the parent post was clear on that.

  74. too busy arguing amongst themselves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.eham.net/articles/6303

    http://www.eham.net/articles/6385

    etc, etc, ad nauseam.

    "my aerial's bigger than yours"
    "You're just a CBer"
    "Your're just an old fart"
    "nerrr nerrr na nerrrr nerrr" etc. etc.

  75. Im glad! by nievesj · · Score: 0

    Well I am glad that the States are going to get a taste of what we have to get through each year here in the caribbean.

  76. Forget Ham radio by QuackQuack · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why use Ham radio when you can have SPAM radio! It's the radio that comes in a can to protect from the worst weather conditions.

    Not only will Spam Radio keep you updated on the latest conditions in Nigeria, you will also learn how you can take advantage of offers that will let you achieve, erm, "personal growth", (wink wink, nudge nudge)

    --
    By reading this sig, you agree to the terms of my sig license.
  77. 3 Hams will surely fill him! by pr0ntab · · Score: 1

    Oh wait, that wasn't it.

    GODDAMNIT!

    --
    Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
  78. Expectedly by r_j_prahad · · Score: 1

    That part about "posting hams at shelters" sure has flushed out all the turkeys at Slashdot.

  79. Hurricane Isabel by LtMajZombie · · Score: 1

    Bring it on Isabel!!! ( Me lives in Northen VA ).

  80. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah screw the ARRL. We'd still be doing Morse if they (and a large majority of the ARRL hams) had their way. That being said, get a Technician license and get into radio digital transmission. But the league is (still) seriously behind the times.

  81. And monitor digital modes by BenitoM · · Score: 0
    Download some software for decoding common digital modes - RTTY, Pactor, etc.

    Hook the audio output of the short wave to your sound card.

    Have fun!

  82. REACT?? by BenitoM · · Score: 1, Informative
    There is a CB organization called REACT that provides emergency response sort of like hams do.

    See http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gc i341011,00.html and http://www.co.fort-bend.tx.us/county_services/OEM/ citizens_band.htm

  83. IRLP Hurricane Net by cryptec · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Check out the hams at work on the east coast. They are currently reporting weather and assisting FEMA; Live shoutcast broadcast is available here: http://live.irlp.net:8080/

  84. Breaking News! by jared_hanson · · Score: 1

    Unless you have a satphone your Aunt Tilly in Burbank won't know what's become of you.

    This just in: Hurricane Isabel has just taken a 90 degree turn, vertically. It has become the first hurricane to do so, leaving meteorologists baffled, and fueling the fire of those who say they could never predict weather accurately anyway.

    In any case, the satellite phone network is now the one in danger. The only risk to cell towers is the miniscule chance that a satellite lands on one of them while falling from orbit.

    All residents of the International Space Station have been ordered to evacuate immediately.

    --
    -- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
  85. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1500W, with an antenna with as much gain as you want. Which is way more than nessicary unless you are attempting moon bounce networking...

  86. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Hmm.. 802.11b Moonbounce. Talk about war-driving.

  87. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Little+Brother · · Score: 1

    Ah, then you'll also like to know you can get all the way up to extra class with only 5wpm code...

    --

    Little Brother, watching the watchers

  88. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YHBT. YHL. HAND.

  89. Re:Who needs ham radio? by PiratePTG · · Score: 2, Insightful
    >And when Isabel destroys many of the cell towers, where will you be then?

    I was down in the Homestead area about 8 hours after Andrew blew through... My cellphone stopped working somewhere just south of lake Okechobee and didn't start to work again for over 10 days. I worked with the Red Cross, SATERN, and other groups for close to 3 weeks.

    As I have said before, to many "cellphones are the answer" kinda people, cellphones do not work when their towers are laying on their sides.

    On the other hand, last June, during Field Day, we got hit with a particularly violent thunderstorm that knocked one of the local clubs completely off the air (http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/07/02/1/?nc =1). We were a few miles south of that group, but also lost an antenna, a tower, and half-way submerged a generator in the storm. However, we were back on the air with batteries and wire antennas in about an hour.

    Amateur radio may not be "modern", it may not be fast, but one thing it is, is RELIABLE. Any time, any where, "When all else fails".

    73 de Paul, KC4YDY

    --
    The number 1 problem of working in a cubicle - 23 power cords, 1 outlet...
  90. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A new way to pop popcorn... send a 500meg file over your 1500watt wi-fi link. I was under the impression you were limited to 100 PEP.

  91. WHY DID YOU RTFA?? by Jonas+the+Bold · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why did you rtfa? You shouldn't have rtfa!!!!

    --
    Everything seemed to be going so nice
    'till the end of all beings punched right through the ice
  92. let me guess.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're both really fat. The two of you met at either a Science Fiction convention or a D&D game. Even though you're both physically repulsive, you're into "alternative sexuality". You describe yourself as "polyamorous, bisexual sub with a tendency towards topping from the bottom." He likes to think of himself as a "poly bi dom who is also into genderfuck and furry sex".
    Bleach - slashdot couples are ghey

  93. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 2, Informative
    I would like to point out that getting the gear needn't be expensive.

    Even cheaper: buy a used radio on EBay, or visit a local ham store or ham swap meet. The gear you find may not be the latest and fanciest, but there is a lot of good, serviceable gear out there. My 2m handheld is a Radio Shack HTX-202 - big (by modern standards), heavy (ditto) and ugly (in the eye of the beholder... :-), but it's built like a tank and it works very well.

    Unlike other radio services, we hams can build our own radios. Hardly anybody does anymore. Sad.

    ...laura VE7LDH

  94. OT: your sig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you characterize slashdot as left-leaning? /. is almost entirely populated by middle class white men in their teens or early twenties. Their politics tend to be essentially libertarian, with a slight isolationist bent (i.e., anti-immigration, slightly jingoist).

  95. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by tgd · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well the written rule is that you're never supposed to use more power than you need to get the intended communication through.

    That said, I believe the 2ghz range limits are 1500w. Its been a while since I had to memorize those charts, though, so it might be less than that. Most frequencies seem to be 1500w, though.

    Thats twice the power and nearly the same frequency as your microwave oven, though. You probably don't really want to be doing that.

  96. And when the hurricane's over... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They can go back to playing with their train sets.

  97. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    My girlfriend and 11 year old daughter passed their novice/tech tests without effort.

    cince they basically eliminated the code it's no effort to get in.

    Problem is that many of the repeaters are choked with idiots.. "Dave can you hear me?" "yeah! cool we're 20 feet apart!" and yack on for 20 minutes as they drive down the road hogging the repeater for no reason. Espically on a state wide linked repeater system.

    Get off the repeater and talk simplex!!!! Courtesy and using your brain are required in this hobby.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  98. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by GigsVT · · Score: 1

    I think you can do the full 1500 watts, but it's not like you can use the internet over it. All encrypted communications are banned, as are anything obscene. Just checking your email and getting porn spam would be illegal.

    You also have to transmit your callsign every 10 minutes.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  99. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 1

    And don't let the test scare you off. Any self respecting geek ought to be able to learn the test material in a couple afternoons.

    Basically, when I decided to upgrade from Advanced to Extra, I found about four different sites that supplied online practice tests. Here's one of them; here's another; and here's a third. Basically, about three times a day I took a practice test and made notes on the stuff I missed. Then, I went back and studied up on those topics. Did I memorize the answers? Well, yeah . . . but I also decided that, after thirty years as a ham, it might be a good idea if I actually figured out what a time constant was useful for, or how to read a Smith chart, or how to figure complex impedance. So, I did.

    After about three weeks I was scoring 100% constantly, and aced the in-person test.

    The technician test should be a complete snap. You just need to know as much about the FCC rules related to ham radio as you need to know about state motor vehicle laws in order to pass your written driver's test.

    --
    Someone you trust is one of us.
  100. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by bplipschitz · · Score: 3, Funny

    My girlfriend and 11 year old daughter passed their novice/tech tests without effort.

    Ewww. . .

    Soooo. . . .you're telling us that you live in Arkansas?

  101. THIS JUST IN... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ham radio still lame

  102. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I got one of those 202's too. I use it and a 2 amp power supply as a "base" rig.

    Actually, if you get involved with the local ham community, you can often find someone who doesn't mind donating a hand-me-down to a new ham. I wouldn't count on it, but others have been kind enough to help me with equipment in the past.

    --
    Someone you trust is one of us.
  103. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    no, Northern Flor-id-a!

    we got's us a Gator Farm!

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  104. Re:Who needs ham radio? by esobofh · · Score: 1

    I taught my cat morse.. but now all I ever hear is..

    meow meow meeeeoooow meow.meow.meow.meeeeoooow meow meow...meeeeoooow meeeeoooow.meow...meeeeoooow meow meow meow.meow meow.meeeeoooow.meeeeoooow meow meeeeoooow meow.meow meow meow meow ;)

    --

    ----------------------------
    Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
  105. Re:Who needs ham radio? by Rorschach1 · · Score: 1

    And don't forget that satellite phones are bound to be severely overloaded if they're available. Maybe it's not a problem for inmarsat, but Iridium or any other LEO constellation is only going to have one bird in view at a time in the disaster area, and that's not much bandwidth.

  106. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm 23, but have been out of the hobby about 5 years. I just got a vanity call and checked out the new licenses...wow. I was a Tech+, so I have 5wpm code. I can get my General now with just a quick test. (And believe me, it's quick. I just looked the book. Simple math.) Awesome...I always wanted to do more than 10 meters on HF. Too bad the the BPL crew is going to crap on the parade.

  107. Tennessee to New Zealand with 0.5 watts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    See http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/rockmite/

    Eric

    www.va3ep.net

  108. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The joke doesn't really work, since the "their" and "tests" show he was talking about 2 people.

  109. Depends... by Richard+Phillips · · Score: 2, Funny

    But Grandpa is still in diapers!

  110. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by anethema · · Score: 1

    Oh wow, thats cool. Totally different than here in canada. Here there is only 3 classes. Basic, advanced, and the 12WPM. I just wrote my basic and advanced in 1 sitting. I'm and EE so it wasnt too hard. Morse on the other hand will take a good while to learn i think. All the 5WPM morse gives you tho is access to all the really low CW frequencies. Ill get it, just later.

    --


    It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
  111. Extra Privliges by KC8SWY · · Score: 1

    An Amateur Radio Operator's License can also provide extra privliges such as: (In Michigan, and many other areas) Exemption from scanner laws, which means I can have a scanner permenently mounted in my truck and on. Nearly free customized license plates (with your call sign) Exemption from the newly enacted communication spoofing/dns legislature passed earlier this year, basically making war driving and other activities such as IP NAT illegal. (discussed on /. before) Also keep in mind that Hamfest's are great places to find a bargin on geek equipment other than ham stuff. http://www.arrl.org/hamfests.html Also check out APRS if you are not familiar with it. web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/aprs.html and findu.com 73, Ken KC8SWY (Kilo Charlie Eight Sierra Whiskey Yankee)

  112. BPL by Starmaven · · Score: 1
    BPL. Broadband over Power Lines. And it just happens to be in the middle of the 10M amateur ('ham') band. Which, for a Part 15 service, is incidentally not permitted if it interferes with a licensed service, such as Amateur Radio. As things stand now, the only way we hams will be able to communicate IS during an emergency (when the power is out, and we've got our 12V batteries). It's all over ARRL, which, incidentally, has a great free downloadable video about how hams help in emergencies, called Amateur Radio Today.

    -StarMaven

    --

    -StarMaven

  113. Re:Get into amateur radio yourself - here's how .. by Starmaven · · Score: 1
    I got my HF transceiver for free (okay, some luck there), built my own antenna, and wired it myself. Total cost = $15, including some nice camougflage paint for the antenna. So, it's not expensive, compared to other hobbies (like golf, or bowling, or computer gaming, even) if you build everything you can yourself.

    -StarMaven

    --

    -StarMaven

  114. Amateur Radio by Ham-KC8VWM · · Score: 1

    As many of you slashdot readers can now see, there are many ham operators out here. So you might be asking, how did so many ham operators all end up all in one place on slashdot.org all at the same time? Simply put... "Communication" We are a fraternity of individuals with like minded interests. Like computer hobbyists/nerds/junkies etc. like yourself, there is a culture of electronic communication junkies called Amateur Radio operators. The fact that we are all suddenly here in one place on the internet is a small example of the power of Amateur Radio communications. So you think the computer and the internet is fun? Try combining computers with Amateur Radio equipment and then you really have a hobby! I have inexpensive antennas that can readily communicate with satellites in space. I can relay either computer transmissions and data or voice signals through these space satellites orbiting around the earth. I can talk directly to an astronaut in the space shuttle. This is called SAREX communication. I can point my antenna and bounce my signals off the moon to a person in another country. I can send TV like images (similar to NASA) to places that don't even have the internet or even electricity like Antartica. I use solar power panels to provide power to my computer and ham radio equipment and can operate in the wilderness in the middle of nowhere anytime! Without the internet! Without electricity and more! Sound Interesting? Why not join our ranks?... http://www.arrl.org Now that's high tech! 73 Charles KC8VWM