I agree that if you open up game design and asset design to players you will tend to get a metric ton of crap, but there is a good argument for opening up the design process for commentary by players.
There are a lot of frustrated designers out there with a lot of ideas, and a lot of people who have played a ton more games than me. When I'm considering how to proceed with a part of the design for my next game, I tend to blog about it and canvas opinions. I get a lot of very well thought out design ideas and suggestions, and some of them have and will make it into the final game. (http://www.gratuitousspacebattles.com) As long as you aren't making any pledges that the player ideas will take priority over the designers 'vision' (horrible term), then I think there is a lot to be gained by listening to the players. They are the people who will pay for the game, after all.
The thing is the pro-nuke lobby has serious form on this. We are always told in the UK nukes are safe, and that's in-between the numerous reports of leaks and accidents at our nuclear plants. Our waste-reprocessing plant got caught falsifying data about nuclear waste by the japanese. This stuff happens. Things go wrong.
I trust scientists. But they can get it wrong. You cant anticipate everything. Engineers assured us that even a jet plane hitting the twin towers would not cause the structure to fail.
They were wrong. BIG disaster. And that's without nuclear waste.
does that cost include The security cost at the nuclear power plant (zero for wind and solar) The waste disposal costs for nuclear (collosal vs zero for wind and solar) The cleanup and decommissioning costs for nuclear (very very low for wind and solar,, collosal and unknown for nuclear).
People love to omit those costs, in a blatant attempt to make nuclear look cheap. It isn't. If nuclear was cheap, why did the UK govt have to bail out our nuclear industry with 400 million pounds of tax payer cash a few years ago? Surely those efficient nukes should be rolling in cash right?
(and that's DESPITE the fact that the UK govt pays all the security, waste and decommissioning costs anyway).
This powerplant has no fuel requirements This powerplant generates zero waste products This powerplant is not a terrorist target This powerplant will cause no widespread panic or disaster even in a complete critical accident This powerplant can be disassembled cleanly, easily and cheaply This powerplant uses tech that we arent paranoid about leaking to undesirable nations.
you are wrong. I'm all for reasonable copyright. But the people here forth and spit and shout and whine at me for being an evil content creator. As a result, I end up firmly in the anti-piracy, pro-copyright, arrest the bastards camp.
The aggressive anti-content creators whining just forces them all to head straight to the other side of the room, alongside the MPAA and RIAA and everyone else you hate.
Hate to break it to you, but your tactics backfire hugely. If it wasn't for all this anti-copyright drivel, I'd probably be a paid up supporter of the EFF.
So if a band walk into a recording studio and record an album (laughably you think this takes an hour, rather than weeks). you think they are on ly entitled, in your mind to earn an hours work.
newsflash: bands maybe took 10-20 years learning to play, writing songs and playing gigs earning fuck all to get them to that point. They will then end up spending months doing PR, touring, TV shows, radio appearances yada yada yada for free to promote that work.
This pathetic jealous idea that all content creators are sitting on the beach laughing with piles of money for zero work is just insulting. if its so fucking easy, why don't YOU give up work and write some music? instant gravy train right?
how is downloading a torrent of a hollywood blockbuster 'free speech'?
people in history who have fought and died to defend free speech would be disgusted to see you trivialise the concept as being the same as your right to help yourself to other peoples work.
Nobody is stopping you making, or watching or buying a movie, music, books, games, dvds... They are stopping you helping yourself to other peoples work without payment.
hi anonymous coward. How the hell is a pro-piracy dick on slashdot a 'customer'?
You people pull out the "we pay your wages!" card a lot, forgetting that you never fucking pay for anything. You arent happy? cry me a river kid.
I do not give a flying fuck what someone like you thinks of my manners. Your views are entirely irrelevant to anyone making commercial software, and always will be.
Excellent post. But this is slashdot. "Information wants to be free" and everyone associated with making it and producing it should work for free too apparently.
I hate to burst your bubble, but nobody forces ANY musician to sign a recording contract, any mroe than someone like me is forced to sign a publishing deal with EA or Activision. People freely make choices of how best to sell the proceeds of their work. I don't hear any artists complain that they were forced to sign anything.
Getting noticed in the music industry is VERY hard. People sign with record companies because they can get you noticed. Most full time musicians are not also full-time marketing and PR experts.
I disagree. The RIAA would drop this case ages ago if it was about money. it is not. It is clearly about sending signals out there to people that this is breaking the law, you can get caught and you will get fined.
Its costing them a lot to make that point, and they calculate that the message it sends is worth it.
I admire anyone who stands up and says "I believe that fundamentally it should be ok for me to just take copyrighted content"*
That takes balls, because it means you open yourself up to arrest and a serious fine, if not worse. And that is exactly what people do who actually believe in something. I've put my own ass on the line and risked arrest for political issues in the past. I don't see ANYONE doing this over the copyright issue. Everyone talks a tough fight behind a keyboard, but they also talk a lot about using anonymous services and masking their identity. Hardly the work of crusaders trying to change the law.
Even TPB claim its not them who are breaking any laws. if they actually believed in 'the cause' they would admit they are breaking the, and say they do so to get it changed.
Could it maybe be that getting free music is *not* worth a criminal record after all?
*I still completely dispute the premise that its ok to do this, and think people who espouse it are naive at best, but I can admire people who are naive and wrong, if they at least stand for something.
If you want to make the point that the RIAA's tactics are wrong and that their evidence is shaky (both true), then it might be a good idea to try and make a big hoo-hah out of a case where they sued someone who didn't own a PC or was in another country at the time. Lets be honest about this, This woman is guilty as hell. The fact that she is so bloody minded as to proclaim her innocence so long after the fact is fascinating, but she is hardly a decent poster child for people who claim that the RIAA are going after the wrong people. Isn't she the person who tried to destroy her hard drive after she got caught?
do you think this pathetic bullshit argument hasnt been wheeled out here before?
Heres the point:
If everyone is just going to copy the car, how the fuck does the car designer get paid? And why the fuck would he do that for free rather than get a job which pays for luxuries such as food and shelter?
I see no reason to care about what people who are pro-piracy think.
if you are pro-piracy, you are not my customers, so basically who gives a fuck what they think? Sadly, all the excuses people have come up with to defend piracy have been shown to be just that: excuses.
You can now get DRM-free single tracks from itunes for a pittance, and yet piracy is more popular than ever.
Piracy is about getting stuff fro free, and leeching off everyone else. This is evident. I really don't care if the pirates want to accept that, or continue whining in denial.
people like me are just going to turn towards making on-line-only service-enabled products. Its the only way to avoid piracy. If you love single player video games, tough shit. Those are now done and dusted, thanks to the pirates.
Nice to know that he is giving away his work for free. Less nice to know he wants to ram his own fucking business model down the throats of everyone else who makes software.
go play in the road kiddie. I really couldnt care less what an ANONYMNOUS COWARD who is about 6 years old thinks of my games. I suspect they went over your head kid. Try studying harder at school next time okay?
And seriously, you are the reason DRM, and the RIAA and the MPAA exists. YOU are the reason nobody makes games aimed at piracy-prone little kiddies any more.
You don't buy anything, so we make fuck all thats aimed at you. Understand yet kiddie?
Slashdot Mirror
oh wait./
am I constantly modded troll for daring to believe in copyright?
yes.. I am..
*sigh*
Artists don't earn a tenth what lawyers do, or accountants.
You really think that the average 'artist' earns the same as madonna?
pull your head out your ass. You've been reading too much torrentfreak and pirateparty propaganda.
Take your anti-corporate bullshit to north korea where it belongs.
I agree that if you open up game design and asset design to players you will tend to get a metric ton of crap, but there is a good argument for opening up the design process for commentary by players.
There are a lot of frustrated designers out there with a lot of ideas, and a lot of people who have played a ton more games than me. When I'm considering how to proceed with a part of the design for my next game, I tend to blog about it and canvas opinions. I get a lot of very well thought out design ideas and suggestions, and some of them have and will make it into the final game. (http://www.gratuitousspacebattles.com)
As long as you aren't making any pledges that the player ideas will take priority over the designers 'vision' (horrible term), then I think there is a lot to be gained by listening to the players. They are the people who will pay for the game, after all.
The thing is the pro-nuke lobby has serious form on this.
We are always told in the UK nukes are safe, and that's in-between the numerous reports of leaks and accidents at our nuclear plants.
Our waste-reprocessing plant got caught falsifying data about nuclear waste by the japanese.
This stuff happens. Things go wrong.
I trust scientists. But they can get it wrong. You cant anticipate everything.
Engineers assured us that even a jet plane hitting the twin towers would not cause the structure to fail.
They were wrong. BIG disaster. And that's without nuclear waste.
does that cost include
The security cost at the nuclear power plant (zero for wind and solar)
The waste disposal costs for nuclear (collosal vs zero for wind and solar)
The cleanup and decommissioning costs for nuclear (very very low for wind and solar,, collosal and unknown for nuclear).
People love to omit those costs, in a blatant attempt to make nuclear look cheap.
It isn't.
If nuclear was cheap, why did the UK govt have to bail out our nuclear industry with 400 million pounds of tax payer cash a few years ago?
Surely those efficient nukes should be rolling in cash right?
(and that's DESPITE the fact that the UK govt pays all the security, waste and decommissioning costs anyway).
This powerplant has no fuel requirements
This powerplant generates zero waste products
This powerplant is not a terrorist target
This powerplant will cause no widespread panic or disaster even in a complete critical accident
This powerplant can be disassembled cleanly, easily and cheaply
This powerplant uses tech that we arent paranoid about leaking to undesirable nations.
I'll stick with wind and solar thanks.
Agreed. they could start by refusing to come to a site with this at the bottom:
© 1997-2009 SourceForge, Inc.
you are wrong.
I'm all for reasonable copyright.
But the people here forth and spit and shout and whine at me for being an evil content creator.
As a result, I end up firmly in the anti-piracy, pro-copyright, arrest the bastards camp.
The aggressive anti-content creators whining just forces them all to head straight to the other side of the room, alongside the MPAA and RIAA and everyone else you hate.
Hate to break it to you, but your tactics backfire hugely.
If it wasn't for all this anti-copyright drivel, I'd probably be a paid up supporter of the EFF.
best post on slashdot in months.
I salute you.
wow.
I mean WOW.
So if a band walk into a recording studio and record an album (laughably you think this takes an hour, rather than weeks). you think they are on ly entitled, in your mind to earn an hours work.
newsflash:
bands maybe took 10-20 years learning to play, writing songs and playing gigs earning fuck all to get them to that point. They will then end up spending months doing PR, touring, TV shows, radio appearances yada yada yada for free to promote that work.
This pathetic jealous idea that all content creators are sitting on the beach laughing with piles of money for zero work is just insulting.
if its so fucking easy, why don't YOU give up work and write some music?
instant gravy train right?
omg, you mean I cant just remake old movies?
Fuck, I might have to write some new stories.
Explain how being able to just rip off old stuff encourages creativity again?
I agree. punishing the honest is no way to do it.
We should punish those who are openly stealing, and encouraging others to do so.
Like thepiratebay.
But hold on, isn't it this very site that champions the thieves at thepiratebay as some sort of heroes?
make your minds up.
how is downloading a torrent of a hollywood blockbuster 'free speech'?
people in history who have fought and died to defend free speech would be disgusted to see you trivialise the concept as being the same as your right to help yourself to other peoples work.
Nobody is stopping you making, or watching or buying a movie, music, books, games, dvds... They are stopping you helping yourself to other peoples work without payment.
hi anonymous coward.
How the hell is a pro-piracy dick on slashdot a 'customer'?
You people pull out the "we pay your wages!" card a lot, forgetting that you never fucking pay for anything.
You arent happy?
cry me a river kid.
I do not give a flying fuck what someone like you thinks of my manners. Your views are entirely irrelevant to anyone making commercial software, and always will be.
Excellent post. But this is slashdot. "Information wants to be free" and everyone associated with making it and producing it should work for free too apparently.
I agree, it makes no fucking sense.
I'm pretty sure here in the UK people are caught and prosecuted on the basis of DNA evidence all the time. Even years after the crime.
I hate to burst your bubble, but nobody forces ANY musician to sign a recording contract, any mroe than someone like me is forced to sign a publishing deal with EA or Activision.
People freely make choices of how best to sell the proceeds of their work.
I don't hear any artists complain that they were forced to sign anything.
Getting noticed in the music industry is VERY hard. People sign with record companies because they can get you noticed. Most full time musicians are not also full-time marketing and PR experts.
I disagree. The RIAA would drop this case ages ago if it was about money. it is not.
It is clearly about sending signals out there to people that this is breaking the law, you can get caught and you will get fined.
Its costing them a lot to make that point, and they calculate that the message it sends is worth it.
Well said
I admire anyone who stands up and says "I believe that fundamentally it should be ok for me to just take copyrighted content"*
That takes balls, because it means you open yourself up to arrest and a serious fine, if not worse.
And that is exactly what people do who actually believe in something. I've put my own ass on the line and risked arrest for political issues in the past.
I don't see ANYONE doing this over the copyright issue. Everyone talks a tough fight behind a keyboard, but they also talk a lot about using anonymous services and masking their identity. Hardly the work of crusaders trying to change the law.
Even TPB claim its not them who are breaking any laws. if they actually believed in 'the cause' they would admit they are breaking the, and say they do so to get it changed.
Could it maybe be that getting free music is *not* worth a criminal record after all?
*I still completely dispute the premise that its ok to do this, and think people who espouse it are naive at best, but I can admire people who are naive and wrong, if they at least stand for something.
If you want to make the point that the RIAA's tactics are wrong and that their evidence is shaky (both true), then it might be a good idea to try and make a big hoo-hah out of a case where they sued someone who didn't own a PC or was in another country at the time.
Lets be honest about this, This woman is guilty as hell. The fact that she is so bloody minded as to proclaim her innocence so long after the fact is fascinating, but she is hardly a decent poster child for people who claim that the RIAA are going after the wrong people.
Isn't she the person who tried to destroy her hard drive after she got caught?
OMFG WHAT A REVELATION!!!!
do you think this pathetic bullshit argument hasnt been wheeled out here before?
Heres the point:
If everyone is just going to copy the car, how the fuck does the car designer get paid? And why the fuck would he do that for free rather than get a job which pays for luxuries such as food and shelter?
I see no reason to care about what people who are pro-piracy think.
if you are pro-piracy, you are not my customers, so basically who gives a fuck what they think?
Sadly, all the excuses people have come up with to defend piracy have been shown to be just that: excuses.
You can now get DRM-free single tracks from itunes for a pittance, and yet piracy is more popular than ever.
Piracy is about getting stuff fro free, and leeching off everyone else. This is evident.
I really don't care if the pirates want to accept that, or continue whining in denial.
people like me are just going to turn towards making on-line-only service-enabled products. Its the only way to avoid piracy. If you love single player video games, tough shit. Those are now done and dusted, thanks to the pirates.
Nice to know that he is giving away his work for free. Less nice to know he wants to ram his own fucking business model down the throats of everyone else who makes software.
What fucking arrogance.
so how about a game like Civilisation that costs millions.
Explain how that gets made brainiac.
And if that games is so shit, why is it so popular on torrent sites?
What drivel.
go play in the road kiddie.
I really couldnt care less what an ANONYMNOUS COWARD who is about 6 years old thinks of my games. I suspect they went over your head kid. Try studying harder at school next time okay?
And seriously, you are the reason DRM, and the RIAA and the MPAA exists. YOU are the reason nobody makes games aimed at piracy-prone little kiddies any more.
You don't buy anything, so we make fuck all thats aimed at you. Understand yet kiddie?