"the industry should just realize that $50/game in the US probably wouldn't be as profitable as $19.00 and minimal CD protection."
yes... and no. I sell my games for $22 and no copy protection. And no surpise, some assholes bung them on p2p. Thanks guys, you are the people encouraging me to use online activation and authentication. At the end of the day publishers and developers dont want to waste any time or money on DRM, but the ease with which pirates allow people to get free copies forces their hand. Next time some 'l33t sc1pt k1ddie' tells you where to get the latest hit games for free, remind him that its attitudes like that that cause the need for DRM in the first place. The guys that add the DRM support to games hate DRM as much as you do, games coders are hardcore geeks, but they also know that crap feeling in your gut when you see the 4 year game you worked on on bit-torrent, and your employer lays of 100 staff. Some DRM practices (starforce etc) are unforgiveable, ditto sonys tricks, but dont pretend that "if they stopped DRM piracy would end" because thats BS.
"It's effectively illegal to leave your house without a government issued ID anymore. A friend of mine (a republican no less) was riding her bike during the 2004 RNC in New York City. She wasn't part of, or even close to the protests, but she looks "weird" she's young, she's not white, and she has tatoos. She ran a stopsign on her bike (pretty much standard practice for cyclists at 4-way stops) and got stopped by a cop. He would have let her go, but she didn't have an ID on her. As a result, she spent 18 hours sitting on a hard cement floor with her hands plastic-tied behind her, with no access to food, water, or legal counsel.
She never got her bike back, and her suit against the NYPD was thrown out of court, as apparently, they were acting 100% within the Patriot act."
lemme guess - land of the free right? not that the UK is much better.
I agree with the main point, that indie game developers waffle on about innovation, then churn out a bejewelled clone. Its good to see he acknowledges some of the more original games that gametunnel.com has given awards to (including my own contribution at http://www.democracygame.com/ (yeah im pluggin myself, its an essential habit when you work alone)
What you dont often hear about is the bitter infighting in the indie-gamer community about the whole 'casual puzzle game clones' and the effect they are having on the image of indie gaming. Not all of us are heading down the puzzle-clone route, and there have been some big arguments about it amongst developers. Personally, I'm betting the house (literally) that doing fairly original and risky (from a design POV) games is the only way to strike it big as a small developer. To that end, my next game (http://www.kudosgame.com/ is a life-sim, a genre that nobody (not even the activisions etc) is attempting to expand upon. One day that may change, as I recently did some prototype work for maxis, so who knows whats coming next from them.
Please don't write us all of as bejewlled-makers. Theres a lot of variety if you know where to look.
when those factions are different groups of people expressing the will of the people, thats cool. But if some of those factiomns are just big companies and their large soft-money checks, thats different, as it becomes not the will of the people, but the will of a few rich people. Other nations have more restrictions on the extent to which provate companies can bankroll political parties. We arent *much* better here in the UK, but you have to accept that letting a handfull of rich executives (who probably run companies that benefit from the patriot act) contribute so dramatically to party funds is not helpfull.
Stardock have their own system too, as to Realgames (shudder... intrusive client) and lots of indie devs like msyelf are selling through Digital Downloads without using Steam. Steam is just one way of handling digital distribution.
Then you may be in the minority. I just picked a game (Quake 4) and searched a p2p network to see what had the top numbers of seeds. The top 10 was mostly cracks of the full version. It would be nice to think that the top 10 was just the legally distributable demo, but its not the case. There are lots of good, legal, legitmiate uses of p2p, but to suggest that its mainly used for that is just wrong. that doesnt mean p2p is evil, but if we respect copyright, then we must agree that it badly needs some policing.
Buy lower budget games then. Sony may want to charge you $60, but indie developers dont. gametunnel.com is full of reviews of new, downloadable games around he $10-30 range, including my own (blatant plug) www.positech.co.uk If you value gameplay over graphics, your better off with indie games anyway.
last time i checked you were twenty seven times more likely to be killed by a firearm in the USA than the UK. As i recall that was from nationmaster.com, although columbia was slightly more dangerous, so theres that to be proud of.
Thats fine, I can see that you dont like my games enough to buy them, I am fine with that. I dont deserve to get a sale from someone who isn't imrpessed with the product. Different tastes for different people, thats no problem at all. I make free demos available happily, I want people to be happy with the game. Its had at least 16 patches and updates in the 8 months since release. I think we can both agree that the REAL problem is people with this attitude:
"I like this game its cool, I want to play it for ages. Wheres the torrent?"
here we have a problem, because the game has ticked all the required boxes, but its STILL doesnt get the sale, which has to be bad news for the developer. People are getting the wrong end of the stick here. I am not on slashdot whining that people should buy my games. Ive madde some crap games that dont sell, and some good ones that do. I've refined my games, kept up feedback with the players over time, and responded to what people want. I'm making a small living doing this, so I must be making some good stuff. What I'm getting emotional and whining about is the people who DO like the games enough, but still pirate them. Your comparison with Civ4 is a good example. I played the demo, but it just wasn't for me. I probably still have the demo installed. one day I might buy it, who knows. But I wouldn't get a torrent of it. If I liked it enough to play more than the demo, I'd buy it, just as you probably have done. But I think we BOTH agree, that in this case its wrong for you to get Civ4 as a free torrent yes?
The RIAA are bastards, no argument there, but they are the only ones trying to stop blatant piracy. It pains me to side with the same people who put rootkits on peoples PCs, but right now, nobody else is sticking up for the producers of IP at any level;(
you dont understand, the majority of slashdot kiddies think that people who actually create content are *evil* and its everyones human right to take the efforts of those people and enjoy them for free. Its called "sticking it to the man!" Until the same kiddies become musicians or developers with bills to pay. Then they start feeling like right hypocrites.
So the people who get prate copies of civilisation IV are doing it because the game sucks? Surely the very best cream of the crop games wont get purated then? So I'd be unlucky trying to find a torrent of half life, or Quake, or Civ right? Its just crap games like mine? Its way easier to find games by doing a web search of browsing the games news sites. the idea that people use bittorrent to find out what new games are out because its easier than going to gamespy just makes no sense. And in that case, surely torrent sites that hosted just new free demos would be more popular than the ones hosting full free games right? Im sick of people saying that if a game is being illegally copied that its because it sucks. if it sucks why do people want a copy? free or otherwise. Sure, there are some *good* people who will buy a game after playing a torrented full version, but thats maybe 5%. its the other 95% that are just stealing them with no intention to buy, and its that 95% that the RIAA etc are going after. I say good luck to them.
for someone hating the global police state, you sound awfully like a communist. If you dont want to pay for the fruits of other peoples labours, you are either a thief or a communist. Choose one.
double whammy, you take out the local power supply, and scare the crap out of people within 200 miles of every power station in the country. Thats what I'd choose, and AQ nearly did it on 9/11 remember?
its called disagreeing.I shouldnt have expected much more from the pro-nuke loons on slashdot I guess. Come back when you have an actual argument to put forward little boy.
An interesting but flawed philosophy. You seem to imply that if the IP holders were just scraping by and making ends meet, you would be happy for the torrent sites to be taken down? Im just about making ends meet as a software develoepr, and one of my games is available as a torrent. No doubt this isnt exactly helping sales. So I suppose that the torrent sites you support check the financial data of each submitted torrent, will spot that I'm a solo developer who needs the cash, and decline to list torrents of my stuff right? Bullshit. This is just freeloaders getting everything they can for free because they think they wont get caught. Dont insult everyones intelligence by dressing it up as some kind of robin hood tale. Many things the **IA do is bullshit, but closing torrent sites that encourage illegal content is fine by me. Bittorrent is a superb system that works wonders for distributing game demos and movie trailers etc. By defending its usage to steal IP, your just going to bring the whole system down.
ha right. show me ONE instance where a blade has come off. and Ive sat right next to one and heard NOTHING. As for the assumption that all wind turbines are 300ft high, you really need to get out more. microgeneration turbines are WAY smaller.
Nonsense. the copllosal security and decommissioning and waste storage costs are all being ignroed in your figrues, hence they are useless. You might as well say the cost of wind is zero, and assume the govt pays to build the turbines. dont swallow nuclear lobbyists hype at face value.
Slashdot Mirror
"the industry should just realize that $50/game in the US probably wouldn't be as profitable as $19.00 and minimal CD protection."
yes... and no.
I sell my games for $22 and no copy protection. And no surpise, some assholes bung them on p2p. Thanks guys, you are the people encouraging me to use online activation and authentication.
At the end of the day publishers and developers dont want to waste any time or money on DRM, but the ease with which pirates allow people to get free copies forces their hand. Next time some 'l33t sc1pt k1ddie' tells you where to get the latest hit games for free, remind him that its attitudes like that that cause the need for DRM in the first place.
The guys that add the DRM support to games hate DRM as much as you do, games coders are hardcore geeks, but they also know that crap feeling in your gut when you see the 4 year game you worked on on bit-torrent, and your employer lays of 100 staff.
Some DRM practices (starforce etc) are unforgiveable, ditto sonys tricks, but dont pretend that "if they stopped DRM piracy would end" because thats BS.
"It's effectively illegal to leave your house without a government issued ID anymore. A friend of mine (a republican no less) was riding her bike during the 2004 RNC in New York City. She wasn't part of, or even close to the protests, but she looks "weird" she's young, she's not white, and she has tatoos. She ran a stopsign on her bike (pretty much standard practice for cyclists at 4-way stops) and got stopped by a cop. He would have let her go, but she didn't have an ID on her. As a result, she spent 18 hours sitting on a hard cement floor with her hands plastic-tied behind her, with no access to food, water, or legal counsel.
She never got her bike back, and her suit against the NYPD was thrown out of court, as apparently, they were acting 100% within the Patriot act."
lemme guess - land of the free right? not that the UK is much better.
Please dont say the movies was made by activision. it was made by Lionhead. Activision just wrote the checks. I was the Ai coder for my sins...
The sims is just one way of doing it, and although they release expansion packs, the base gameplay has not changed.
I agree with the main point, that indie game developers waffle on about innovation, then churn out a bejewelled clone. Its good to see he acknowledges some of the more original games that gametunnel.com has given awards to (including my own contribution at http://www.democracygame.com/ (yeah im pluggin myself, its an essential habit when you work alone)
What you dont often hear about is the bitter infighting in the indie-gamer community about the whole 'casual puzzle game clones' and the effect they are having on the image of indie gaming. Not all of us are heading down the puzzle-clone route, and there have been some big arguments about it amongst developers.
Personally, I'm betting the house (literally) that doing fairly original and risky (from a design POV) games is the only way to strike it big as a small developer. To that end, my next game (http://www.kudosgame.com/ is a life-sim, a genre that nobody (not even the activisions etc) is attempting to expand upon. One day that may change, as I recently did some prototype work for maxis, so who knows whats coming next from them.
Please don't write us all of as bejewlled-makers. Theres a lot of variety if you know where to look.
when those factions are different groups of people expressing the will of the people, thats cool. But if some of those factiomns are just big companies and their large soft-money checks, thats different, as it becomes not the will of the people, but the will of a few rich people.
Other nations have more restrictions on the extent to which provate companies can bankroll political parties. We arent *much* better here in the UK, but you have to accept that letting a handfull of rich executives (who probably run companies that benefit from the patriot act) contribute so dramatically to party funds is not helpfull.
Stardock have their own system too, as to Realgames (shudder... intrusive client) and lots of indie devs like msyelf are selling through Digital Downloads without using Steam. Steam is just one way of handling digital distribution.
Then you may be in the minority. I just picked a game (Quake 4) and searched a p2p network to see what had the top numbers of seeds. The top 10 was mostly cracks of the full version. It would be nice to think that the top 10 was just the legally distributable demo, but its not the case. There are lots of good, legal, legitmiate uses of p2p, but to suggest that its mainly used for that is just wrong.
that doesnt mean p2p is evil, but if we respect copyright, then we must agree that it badly needs some policing.
Buy lower budget games then. Sony may want to charge you $60, but indie developers dont. gametunnel.com is full of reviews of new, downloadable games around he $10-30 range, including my own (blatant plug)
www.positech.co.uk
If you value gameplay over graphics, your better off with indie games anyway.
last time i checked you were twenty seven times more likely to be killed by a firearm in the USA than the UK. As i recall that was from nationmaster.com, although columbia was slightly more dangerous, so theres that to be proud of.
and if you cant pay for insurance? what then?
Thanks for the feedback, its rare, and enlightening to have a sensible debate about the whole issue here.
yawn. Im not cliffyB.
Thats fine, I can see that you dont like my games enough to buy them, I am fine with that. I dont deserve to get a sale from someone who isn't imrpessed with the product. Different tastes for different people, thats no problem at all. I make free demos available happily, I want people to be happy with the game. Its had at least 16 patches and updates in the 8 months since release.
;(
I think we can both agree that the REAL problem is people with this attitude:
"I like this game its cool, I want to play it for ages. Wheres the torrent?"
here we have a problem, because the game has ticked all the required boxes, but its STILL doesnt get the sale, which has to be bad news for the developer.
People are getting the wrong end of the stick here. I am not on slashdot whining that people should buy my games. Ive madde some crap games that dont sell, and some good ones that do. I've refined my games, kept up feedback with the players over time, and responded to what people want. I'm making a small living doing this, so I must be making some good stuff. What I'm getting emotional and whining about is the people who DO like the games enough, but still pirate them.
Your comparison with Civ4 is a good example. I played the demo, but it just wasn't for me. I probably still have the demo installed. one day I might buy it, who knows. But I wouldn't get a torrent of it. If I liked it enough to play more than the demo, I'd buy it, just as you probably have done. But I think we BOTH agree, that in this case its wrong for you to get Civ4 as a free torrent yes?
The RIAA are bastards, no argument there, but they are the only ones trying to stop blatant piracy. It pains me to side with the same people who put rootkits on peoples PCs, but right now, nobody else is sticking up for the producers of IP at any level
purely because it makes it easier to change forum software. i experimented with free forums once (forumer.com) BIG mistake...
you dont understand, the majority of slashdot kiddies think that people who actually create content are *evil* and its everyones human right to take the efforts of those people and enjoy them for free. Its called "sticking it to the man!" Until the same kiddies become musicians or developers with bills to pay. Then they start feeling like right hypocrites.
So the people who get prate copies of civilisation IV are doing it because the game sucks? Surely the very best cream of the crop games wont get purated then? So I'd be unlucky trying to find a torrent of half life, or Quake, or Civ right? Its just crap games like mine?
Its way easier to find games by doing a web search of browsing the games news sites. the idea that people use bittorrent to find out what new games are out because its easier than going to gamespy just makes no sense. And in that case, surely torrent sites that hosted just new free demos would be more popular than the ones hosting full free games right?
Im sick of people saying that if a game is being illegally copied that its because it sucks. if it sucks why do people want a copy? free or otherwise. Sure, there are some *good* people who will buy a game after playing a torrented full version, but thats maybe 5%. its the other 95% that are just stealing them with no intention to buy, and its that 95% that the RIAA etc are going after. I say good luck to them.
yes many times. end result is lots of abusive emails + spam.
im not even knocking communism, just making sure the poster accepts the realities of his immature position.
for someone hating the global police state, you sound awfully like a communist. If you dont want to pay for the fruits of other peoples labours, you are either a thief or a communist.
Choose one.
double whammy, you take out the local power supply, and scare the crap out of people within 200 miles of every power station in the country. Thats what I'd choose, and AQ nearly did it on 9/11 remember?
its called disagreeing.I shouldnt have expected much more from the pro-nuke loons on slashdot I guess. Come back when you have an actual argument to put forward little boy.
An interesting but flawed philosophy. You seem to imply that if the IP holders were just scraping by and making ends meet, you would be happy for the torrent sites to be taken down?
Im just about making ends meet as a software develoepr, and one of my games is available as a torrent. No doubt this isnt exactly helping sales. So I suppose that the torrent sites you support check the financial data of each submitted torrent, will spot that I'm a solo developer who needs the cash, and decline to list torrents of my stuff right?
Bullshit. This is just freeloaders getting everything they can for free because they think they wont get caught. Dont insult everyones intelligence by dressing it up as some kind of robin hood tale.
Many things the **IA do is bullshit, but closing torrent sites that encourage illegal content is fine by me. Bittorrent is a superb system that works wonders for distributing game demos and movie trailers etc. By defending its usage to steal IP, your just going to bring the whole system down.
ha right. show me ONE instance where a blade has come off. and Ive sat right next to one and heard NOTHING. As for the assumption that all wind turbines are 300ft high, you really need to get out more. microgeneration turbines are WAY smaller.
Nonsense. the copllosal security and decommissioning and waste storage costs are all being ignroed in your figrues, hence they are useless. You might as well say the cost of wind is zero, and assume the govt pays to build the turbines.
dont swallow nuclear lobbyists hype at face value.