Requires Python, C, C++, Ethernet UDP, and a whole host of other 'programming' even if the primary role of the job isn't a coder.
And here's an embedded controls job that requires knowledge of programming on top of the engineering.
So to all those wondering where the jobs are, I question if you're 1) looking 2) have relevant job skills. If you're the coding equivalent of a 'keyboardist' then yes, you are going to have a hard time finding jobs going forward. Otherwise, you shouldn't be worried.
How old are you? Because I had it 3 times. Elementary school (which was a private school), once in 7th grade and then again in 10th. Prior to that people that graduated mostly couldn't type and weren't at all prepared for the workforce at the time. This is back when you could proudly put your WPM and the fact that you knew how to use Wordperfect AND MS Office on your Resume.
Math is required K-12.
Now it is. Once upon the a time math was reserved for a certain class.
Writing is required K-12.
Now it is. Once upon a time not everyone got to learn how to read and write.
In 50 years I expect some one whining when adding Quantum Computing to the K-12 curriculum and you Luddites to have the exact same arguments as to why kids don't need to be learning it.
The false equivalence I keep seeing on Slashdot is they think that this aimed to turn out more professional coders and they're scared someone is going to come after their niche CS jobs.
I'm a mechanical engineer that can code. You can pat yourself on the back that your job is never going to be taken over by me, nor would I want it. However I do code 40 hours a week, what gives? I use coding to automate mechanical engineering work. At times it get used as a Maslow's hammer, but it gets the job done faster than sitting and doing it manually or throwing a hundred interns on a project.
Latest party trick is to use CNNs to classify plots. 10 years ago I'd make a dozen plots and my boss, I and a few co-workers would study them in a meeting and go "aha, that plot means X". But with the amount of data we're collecting and the amount of plots we're making it'd take a full, tedious week of analyzing them. So I'm treating it as a picture and throwing a spare GPU at it. Inefficient? Probably. Not the ideal solution? Probably Not. Does it work? Yes. But it's fast and I can teach my boss and co-workers how to classify something a handful of times and let the machine do it forever beyond that.
This initiative isn't to turn out more coders, it's to turn out more ____ that can code. Small Business Accountants are still doing voodoo with Excel to automate their jobs, just a tiny amount of Python would make them much, much more efficient and productive. This is across the board of professions. Just like years ago someone got the smart idea to teach students how to type even though companies were employing typists at that time to do that. Turns out it's much faster to just have a person type up what they want themselves than spend the time trying to get a typist to do it.
And the jobs that require a full CS degree are still going to be there, they aren't going anywhere, you can stop freaking out every time we want to teach kids something new. I do expect to see "Python" along side "MS Word" when it comes to most job requirements in the next few decades.
Typing is not for everyone and not everyone will gain even a modest benefit from learning to type. Furthermore this shit is going to be done by speech to text software over the coming decade or two.
Math is not for everyone and not everyone will gain even a modest benefit from learning Math. Furthermore this is shit that is better left to mathematicians coming decade or two.
Writing is not for everyone and not everyone will gain even a modest benefit from learning Math. Furthermore this is shit that is better left to nobility.
No, I'm someone that has moved across the country for jobs. Just like great-grandpa had to do during the Depression.
You think you can buy a house in suburbia, own 2 cars and have 2.5 kids and just sit around and work for the rest of your life doing the same thing for ever?
And my wife is a medical doctor sitting on the couch next to me that works with H1Bs and knows the system. You seem to be talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about.
these immigrant doctors
How do you know they are immigrants? My wife worked with and went to school with a lot of second generation Americans. Most people assume they're immigrants as well.
More than a few were in their 50s and I don't see them doing 3-5 years of residency at that age
Agreed, they might have done their 3-5 years of residency when they were 30 or 40. My wife has a co-worker that redid his residency in his late 30s after he moved here from Egypt. Another (not an immigrant) that was a PA (physicians assistant) went back to med school and did his residency in his 40s.
paying the freight for fully licensed doctors
They don't. In fact the doctors likely don't even work 'for' the Urgent care clinic, they're contracted. A lot of doctors will moon light there to earn extra money.
What 'freight' are they paying for? This isn't IT.
it makes sure the MD workforce is kept small and salaries and patient costs high.
Brought this up to the Doctor. The workforce isn't being intentionally kept small. There is a massive doctor shortage: http://thehill.com/blogs/congr...
They're trying to expand the size of the workforce and they can't. We rely on those 'immigrants'
Additionally that's not how medicine works. This isn't IT. (However this is how most people on Slashdot seem to want IT to work.(
yet were passed off to patients as doctors
How did they do they do this? Did their shirt say "MD"/"DO' (or other letters to indicate the medical school)? Then they were licensed as a doctor and passed boards.
Did you assume they were a doctor? People assume my wife is a nurse because she's a female. I fail to see how that's the urgent care center 'passing them off as doctors'.
Some guy walks into the examination room with a dress shirt and tie and a white coat, you just think "doctor".
You think doctor. Nurse practitioners can wear dress shirts. Men can be nurses. Other professions wear white coats. Did they say they were a doctor?
their "doctors" *can't*
There is no "doctors". They are doctors or they are not.
Agreed. STEM sucks. No respect from clientele, unstable job market, outsourcing,
Maybe you don't have relevant job skills. From where I'm looking on Indeed and Monster there are jobs all across the country. Most say "We will not consider any applicants that need visas".
I'd guess there's some process whereby they can practice the type of non-invasive medicine common in an urgent care clinic with a "lite" version of the medical boards and under USA doctor "supervision".
Wife is a doctor and wants some citation to your wild speculation.
If they were working as doctors they completed their residency in the US, full stop. My wife has some co-workers that worked for 20 years in their own country and still had to complete residency again if they wanted to work in the US.
t might keep out a lot of talentless hacks but on the other it makes sure the MD workforce is kept small and salaries high.
Isn't this the exact same thing IT has been complaining about wanting? Why don't you setup a trade union and do the exact same thing? It's how Electricians, Plumbers, Pipe Fitters, Steam Fitters, Riggers, and a whole host of other careers work. You get to keep out all of the 'talentless hacks' and you keep your salaries high.
It's not worth arguing with them. 10 or 20 years ago being able to classify an image would have been AI to them.
They'll be moving the goal posts long after NOT AN AI driving cars are talking them to their doctors appointments where a NOT AN AI does diagnostics on them.
Their brains will be in a vat living on mechanically and they'll argue that it's not *true* AI.
The GEs seem to work best. I don't know of any that are compatible with existing 3-way switches, all of the ones I have need a special 3-way switch which uses the traveler to send a signal. Our house already had the Decora style switches so everything was drop in.
A VBA script that downloaded data from Oracle. Ran calculations on Sheet 1. Passed that data to Matlab. Returned the data to Sheet 2, did some more data analysis and uploaded it to a separate database.
They have, but people don't. Especially these days. I can't count how many times I've seen complaints on Engineering subreddits about not being able to find a job and then when pressed they're only looking within 25 miles of Seattle or Chicago (Not known to be Engineering hot beds).
They whine and gnash when told they may have to move to Iowa to find a job that fits their needs.
"But I have faaamily" "But I have frieeends".. Fire up any job search engine and start looking around the country and you'll see jobs all over the place for different types of jobs that go unfilled because they people don't want to move to 'nowhere'.
H1-Bs are already coming to a new country so Iowa looks the same as Nebraska the same as Seattle to them.
What if those laid off don't have relevant job skills anymore?
If companies laid off engineers that refused to learn CAD would they be laying off people that were 'highly skilled' or people that refused to adapt with the times?
Fire up any job search engine, there are jobs out there. But you have to have relevant job skills.
What's your point? They got an education that didn't intersect with actually running the machines. That is literally what IT is for.
You may also be shocked to learn that most mechanical engineering grads can't rebuild their car. Most electrical engineers can't re-wire a house. As specialization increases you have people that are highly trained in one area but don't have the breadth of the 'jack of all trades' that exist in some fields.
Next you'll be complaining your cardiologist is a terrible orthopedic surgeon. "But they're doctors, it's all pretty much the same".
So, hypothetically, what happens if no American with the required skills wants to move to Houston?
Do you force the company to relocate?
America doesn't have a job shortage, it has a job distribution shortage. Mash the right keywords into any job search engine and you can find jobs across the US.
You can train it for more scenarios than you can train a human for. And the knowledge is cumulative. If one car in one place records "unseen data" you can roll that out to all cars next software update.
Trained on 6 pictures of dolphins and sea horses it does a pretty good job of determining an unseen set of data. If you start with pre-trained data weights and tailor it to the 2 animals it's exactly perfect on unseen data.
Slashdot Mirror
Search for the ones where sponsorship is not available. The jobs are there. They're looking for people and have been for years.
Don't blame the fact that you don't have the relevant skills on H1Bs.
you will NOT be hired
So the people I know that have been don't exist?
And that's where the current crop of jobs are as well:
Searching for dSpace/Python jobs around Detroit: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=...
http://www.jobjuncture.com/job...">Here's one that pays well:
Requires Python, C, C++, Ethernet UDP, and a whole host of other 'programming' even if the primary role of the job isn't a coder.
And here's an embedded controls job that requires knowledge of programming on top of the engineering.
So to all those wondering where the jobs are, I question if you're 1) looking 2) have relevant job skills. If you're the coding equivalent of a 'keyboardist' then yes, you are going to have a hard time finding jobs going forward. Otherwise, you shouldn't be worried.
Hardly anyone takes typing
How old are you? Because I had it 3 times. Elementary school (which was a private school), once in 7th grade and then again in 10th. Prior to that people that graduated mostly couldn't type and weren't at all prepared for the workforce at the time. This is back when you could proudly put your WPM and the fact that you knew how to use Wordperfect AND MS Office on your Resume.
Math is required K-12.
Now it is. Once upon the a time math was reserved for a certain class.
Writing is required K-12.
Now it is. Once upon a time not everyone got to learn how to read and write.
In 50 years I expect some one whining when adding Quantum Computing to the K-12 curriculum and you Luddites to have the exact same arguments as to why kids don't need to be learning it.
Yes.
The false equivalence I keep seeing on Slashdot is they think that this aimed to turn out more professional coders and they're scared someone is going to come after their niche CS jobs.
I'm a mechanical engineer that can code. You can pat yourself on the back that your job is never going to be taken over by me, nor would I want it. However I do code 40 hours a week, what gives? I use coding to automate mechanical engineering work. At times it get used as a Maslow's hammer, but it gets the job done faster than sitting and doing it manually or throwing a hundred interns on a project.
Latest party trick is to use CNNs to classify plots. 10 years ago I'd make a dozen plots and my boss, I and a few co-workers would study them in a meeting and go "aha, that plot means X". But with the amount of data we're collecting and the amount of plots we're making it'd take a full, tedious week of analyzing them. So I'm treating it as a picture and throwing a spare GPU at it. Inefficient? Probably. Not the ideal solution? Probably Not. Does it work? Yes. But it's fast and I can teach my boss and co-workers how to classify something a handful of times and let the machine do it forever beyond that.
This initiative isn't to turn out more coders, it's to turn out more ____ that can code. Small Business Accountants are still doing voodoo with Excel to automate their jobs, just a tiny amount of Python would make them much, much more efficient and productive. This is across the board of professions. Just like years ago someone got the smart idea to teach students how to type even though companies were employing typists at that time to do that. Turns out it's much faster to just have a person type up what they want themselves than spend the time trying to get a typist to do it.
And the jobs that require a full CS degree are still going to be there, they aren't going anywhere, you can stop freaking out every time we want to teach kids something new. I do expect to see "Python" along side "MS Word" when it comes to most job requirements in the next few decades.
I've heard this argument before:
Typing is not for everyone and not everyone will gain even a modest benefit from learning to type. Furthermore this shit is going to be done by speech to text software over the coming decade or two.
Math is not for everyone and not everyone will gain even a modest benefit from learning Math. Furthermore this is shit that is better left to mathematicians coming decade or two.
Writing is not for everyone and not everyone will gain even a modest benefit from learning Math. Furthermore this is shit that is better left to nobility.
No, I'm someone that has moved across the country for jobs. Just like great-grandpa had to do during the Depression.
You think you can buy a house in suburbia, own 2 cars and have 2.5 kids and just sit around and work for the rest of your life doing the same thing for ever?
It's never worked like that, ever.
Admittedly it is wild speculation
And my wife is a medical doctor sitting on the couch next to me that works with H1Bs and knows the system. You seem to be talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about.
these immigrant doctors
How do you know they are immigrants? My wife worked with and went to school with a lot of second generation Americans. Most people assume they're immigrants as well.
More than a few were in their 50s and I don't see them doing 3-5 years of residency at that age
Agreed, they might have done their 3-5 years of residency when they were 30 or 40. My wife has a co-worker that redid his residency in his late 30s after he moved here from Egypt. Another (not an immigrant) that was a PA (physicians assistant) went back to med school and did his residency in his 40s.
paying the freight for fully licensed doctors
They don't. In fact the doctors likely don't even work 'for' the Urgent care clinic, they're contracted. A lot of doctors will moon light there to earn extra money.
What 'freight' are they paying for? This isn't IT.
it makes sure the MD workforce is kept small and salaries and patient costs high.
Brought this up to the Doctor. The workforce isn't being intentionally kept small. There is a massive doctor shortage: http://thehill.com/blogs/congr...
They're trying to expand the size of the workforce and they can't. We rely on those 'immigrants'
Additionally that's not how medicine works. This isn't IT. (However this is how most people on Slashdot seem to want IT to work.(
yet were passed off to patients as doctors
How did they do they do this? Did their shirt say "MD"/"DO' (or other letters to indicate the medical school)? Then they were licensed as a doctor and passed boards.
Did you assume they were a doctor? People assume my wife is a nurse because she's a female. I fail to see how that's the urgent care center 'passing them off as doctors'.
Some guy walks into the examination room with a dress shirt and tie and a white coat, you just think "doctor".
You think doctor. Nurse practitioners can wear dress shirts. Men can be nurses. Other professions wear white coats. Did they say they were a doctor?
their "doctors" *can't*
There is no "doctors". They are doctors or they are not.
and I live in one of the worst economic regions in the US.
Then move. People have been migrating for jobs and food for millennia.
I have too many skills. Bosses hate independent thinkers
Oh... one of those guys. Yeah. 'Way too many skills'
Agreed. STEM sucks. No respect from clientele, unstable job market, outsourcing,
Maybe you don't have relevant job skills. From where I'm looking on Indeed and Monster there are jobs all across the country. Most say "We will not consider any applicants that need visas".
I'd guess there's some process whereby they can practice the type of non-invasive medicine common in an urgent care clinic with a "lite" version of the medical boards and under USA doctor "supervision".
Wife is a doctor and wants some citation to your wild speculation.
If they were working as doctors they completed their residency in the US, full stop. My wife has some co-workers that worked for 20 years in their own country and still had to complete residency again if they wanted to work in the US.
t might keep out a lot of talentless hacks but on the other it makes sure the MD workforce is kept small and salaries high.
Isn't this the exact same thing IT has been complaining about wanting? Why don't you setup a trade union and do the exact same thing? It's how Electricians, Plumbers, Pipe Fitters, Steam Fitters, Riggers, and a whole host of other careers work. You get to keep out all of the 'talentless hacks' and you keep your salaries high.
It's not worth arguing with them. 10 or 20 years ago being able to classify an image would have been AI to them.
They'll be moving the goal posts long after NOT AN AI driving cars are talking them to their doctors appointments where a NOT AN AI does diagnostics on them.
Their brains will be in a vat living on mechanically and they'll argue that it's not *true* AI.
The GEs seem to work best. I don't know of any that are compatible with existing 3-way switches, all of the ones I have need a special 3-way switch which uses the traveler to send a signal. Our house already had the Decora style switches so everything was drop in.
A VBA script that downloaded data from Oracle. Ran calculations on Sheet 1. Passed that data to Matlab. Returned the data to Sheet 2, did some more data analysis and uploaded it to a separate database.
In production.
They have, but people don't. Especially these days. I can't count how many times I've seen complaints on Engineering subreddits about not being able to find a job and then when pressed they're only looking within 25 miles of Seattle or Chicago (Not known to be Engineering hot beds).
They whine and gnash when told they may have to move to Iowa to find a job that fits their needs.
"But I have faaamily" "But I have frieeends".. Fire up any job search engine and start looking around the country and you'll see jobs all over the place for different types of jobs that go unfilled because they people don't want to move to 'nowhere'.
H1-Bs are already coming to a new country so Iowa looks the same as Nebraska the same as Seattle to them.
Just like 'food shortage' is a myth.
It's a job distribution problem. Do you do to force people to move to where the jobs are like they did during the great depression?
If the degree has unpaid internships have you ever considered that maybe the job prospects aren't much better?
I didn't take a single unpaid internship in Engineering.
What if those laid off don't have relevant job skills anymore?
If companies laid off engineers that refused to learn CAD would they be laying off people that were 'highly skilled' or people that refused to adapt with the times?
Fire up any job search engine, there are jobs out there. But you have to have relevant job skills.
"Job Outlook, 2014-24 0% (Little or no change)"
If 1 million engineers are set for retirement and 1 million and you need 1 million to replace them what is net growth?
What's your point? They got an education that didn't intersect with actually running the machines. That is literally what IT is for.
You may also be shocked to learn that most mechanical engineering grads can't rebuild their car. Most electrical engineers can't re-wire a house. As specialization increases you have people that are highly trained in one area but don't have the breadth of the 'jack of all trades' that exist in some fields.
Next you'll be complaining your cardiologist is a terrible orthopedic surgeon. "But they're doctors, it's all pretty much the same".
You couldn't offer some people enough money to ever move to Texas or San Francisco.
So, hypothetically, what happens if no American with the required skills wants to move to Houston?
Do you force the company to relocate?
America doesn't have a job shortage, it has a job distribution shortage. Mash the right keywords into any job search engine and you can find jobs across the US.
This must have been how punch card operators talked about coders that could type their own programs.
You're so far off base of what is out there already it's funny. Tell me more about how these cars ".don't work"
Trump and Bannon just picked up in Jan what the far left crowd has been doing since 2014.
you can never train for every scenario.
You can train it for more scenarios than you can train a human for. And the knowledge is cumulative. If one car in one place records "unseen data" you can roll that out to all cars next software update.
And they absolutely do work outside of their training set. I just did it with DIGITS/caffe: https://github.com/humphd/have...
Trained on 6 pictures of dolphins and sea horses it does a pretty good job of determining an unseen set of data. If you start with pre-trained data weights and tailor it to the 2 animals it's exactly perfect on unseen data.
And those are trivial and dumb neural nets.
Remember when they said the same thing about DARPA 2004 project?
Turns out engineering requires time.