This entire argument is happening for ONE reason: various governments of the world )specifically, in this case, the US) has afforded COPYRIGHT protection to works that contribute nothing to "furtherance of the state of the art" and nothing to "the progress of science." If I build a power saw, I can patent unique aspects of its design but have to reveal those aspects.
Copyright is misapplied to source code. Either REVEAL THE SOURCE or you only get protection on that which you "publish" - namely, the binary.
Put up or shut up; no source, no copyright on the source. You won't share it, you don't need it protected.
Now, a capsule alone might not make it to mars, but I doubt ANYTHING launched in one piece from earth would make it that far. Thus, the space station, the robotic arm - all that stuff is tech we needed (and still need) to prepare us. So what if we use a small capsule to go back and forth? You think we could have done what we did with Hubble using one of those lead kettles the FSU uses to shuttle people back and forth?
The capsule system was inherently "modular" thus the inspiration for this bit of classic SF. The only irony I find in all this is how accurate SF may have once again proven to be.
Just don't tell anyone in Hollywood. After seeing what they did with Lost In space, I don't want even a chance of them getting hold of my fave SF series for one of their ticky-tacky plotless rehashes.
You're joking, right? the sonic boom from an aircraft can be ahelluva lot more than "loud." When I was a teen sharing a very rural house trailer we once experienced a "sonic boom" firsthand. Actually, it was TWO house trailers, joined at their middle by a "family room" type partition, forming an H-shaped structure. And when the boom happened, it made both trailers rock back and forth like a stick of dynamite had just gone off across the street.
Sonic booms can be a helluva lot more than just "loud" or "annoying." They can implode outbuildings, knock shit off shelves, break windows... and toss around house trailers like a blast from a hurricane.
Even if the unlikely scenario you construct were to come true, so what? Vote with your feet.
Too many people here still thinking the internet begins at the US border.
Question: all that stuff comes to pass. What do you think the governments of places like China and Cuba are going to do? North (and even South) Korea? The former soviet states that are hungry for anyone's dollars?
You'll see a booming trade in anonymous proxies, even more "unidentified" open proxies left "accidentally" exposed in places like China and Korea, eastern euro usenet and p2p services that guarantee anonymity...
Ironically, the best thing for "freedom on the internet" might well be for the US to crack down on cyber freedoms. The money that would flow into "cyber free" nations could do great things in third world countries. I saw a program the other night on some Mexican workers in NYC who sponsored the construction of an entire baseball stadium in their hometown. Cost all of $52,000 and would have cost at least fifty times that here.
Imagine what would happen if there was a sudden tide of money available to people who could offer reasonably high quality anonymous internet presence to all those US citizens living under the thumb of big brother.
When I read that article I actually went to google, found a kazaa lite site, downloaded kazaa lite, installed kazaa lite, then tried several searches.
I found ZERO "child porn." And I didn't use stupid fucking words like "lolita" and "underage" because there are thousands of websites using those same keywords and you can bet the stuff they're selling ain't really "underage" at all - not even at "Seventeen" magazine.
It doesn't take a genius to find CSV files on the web. And yeah, even csvs of "those" files can be found. So I typed in keywords based on filenames of real, actual "porn" listed in one of those csvs. And ya know what turned up?
Nothing
Nada
Zip
Know why? Because child porn is very fucking illegal. Not just in the US, but just about everywhere, that's why. Only a moron or a cop would even offer the shit for download over a service like kazaa, because your IP is just sitting there naked as your asshole will be when they deliver you to the state prison.
Then, I decided (so long as I have it installed) to search for someone I might actually be interested in looking at: Aria Giovanni. That turned up many more hits (keyword "aria"), but basically it revealed NOTHING I ain't already seen posted in the newsgroups a thousand fucking times. What images there were were scattered about willy-nilly (and of course not a csv to be found), and the few videos were mostly ancient rehashes of stuff that was posted to usenet long ago in much (much) higher quality.
But, just for the hell of it I clicked "download" on one, anyway. When it FINALLY connected (And people say FREENET is slow? Get a fucking grip!) the data trickled in a couple k a second. I let it get to about 100K, clicked "preview" (to see if it was even the video I asked for) at which time windows delivered me an exception and promptly killed the app.
If this is the technology that has the record industry running for cover (not to mention all those thumpers in congress) then, for god's sake, don't ever give one of these shaved apes the keys to usenet!
I agree. said it long ago - the end will only come when the RIAA is forced to act against its own consumers. I've been welcoming this turn of events for years - not because I think people should be sued, but because...
a) Sharing RIAA music is helping spread RIAA music, and we don't want that.
b) Suing your own customers is the short path to bankruptcy. Knowing how the record companies treat their own customers, Mom may think twice about spending twenty bucks on that Britney CD little Tammy wants...
He said the music was to be donated to the EFF. I suspect the people participating in the auction knew full well the track wasn't "worth" anything at all. It's "worth" was in this auction's value as a test case, and that $16,000 would, no doubt, be well used defending this sale (should it have passed) in court.
For a service that allows me to preview just about anything from just about anywhere. If it's not available right now odds are very great that within six months it will be. I can then audition as many tracks from the album as I like, keep all I want, and the quality is almost always at least 192kbps MP3. And if I really like something I can request a lossless version, and usually have it available for download within a matter of hours.
Not the kind that hum in the closet - the kind that hum in the workshop. A few old printers - or some surplus pipe, a few roller skate wheels, a trio of stepper motors and a sheet of plywood will provide all you need for your very own CRC machine - except the brains.
Now, take an old 200MHz Pentium, FreeDOS, and CNC Pro and you got it all.
There's all kinds of uses for DOS. Lots of people still use it every day, even on their desktops. There's a LOT of old systems out there and recycling is a far better use for them than landfill.
stop
take a deep breath
hyperbole
propaganda
you are drowning in it....
god save us all from your teenage-level simplistic moralizing and righteous indignation
in short, grow the up, you are a moral child, easily manipulated by propaganda....
How the fuck have you spewed more than twenty four of these utterly useless ad hominem attacks in this thread and escaped being modded a troll?
it is an action that directly and indirectly injures children
See... you did it again. You make an assinine statement and provide absolutely zero argument to support this absurd (cough) "logic."
Murder inarguably violates the civil rights of the victims. So does lynching (since it, simply, murder by hysteria). So do we make the collection of crime scene photos illegal? Do we imprison everyone who has a copy of In Cold Blood and a photo of Sharon Tate's mutilated body?
HOW does collecting images of a crime already committed "facilitate" said crime? What bizarre planet do you live on where this is a rational argument? Apparently in your world all witnesses are to be prosecuted as conspirators...
The government has the right to un-anonymize you the minute they find a crime either has been committed or have compelling cause to believe a crime will be committed.
What is "compelling?" Is it "compelling" evidence you will rob a bank if you can get a ski mask? Is the logical response to this to ban all sales of ski masks? Is it logical to conclude people will not be able to mask their appearance if they cannot buy ski masks? Or to require "registration" of anyone purchasing a ski mask? Reminds me of a third rock episode where their plans to rob a bank were thwarted by the pens being chained to the tables.
Child porn is always a violation of rights of the child. No consent. The only way to make kiddie porn with real people is criminal.
So what? You hunt down the pornographers and prosecute them. Have you done any research on this? When you do, you will see figures turned up (by the police organizations themselves) that children pictured in child pornography are rarely found. I don't mean like one in ten - I mean like one in a thousand. That's one of the reasons it's such a big deal when they do actually track down someone who is creating the stuff.
This, despite them saying there are tens of thousands of images.
So, let's say there's 50 images of any given child - 50 pictures of a child being raped. That doesn't happen in a vacuum; there will be another person there (the rapist), and it will likely be filmed in a room, in a house, in a state or province or territory.
Banning the sharing of these photos means you are mandating secrecy. You are grossly limiting the number of people who will see these photos, which means the state is protecting child rapists.
How the fuck is that logical? Child pornography should be printed on goddamn milk cartons. It should be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL. There should be websites with HAVE YOU SEEN ME? printed in giant red letters followed by every recent image of molestation to be found. It should be the number one hit on google, because the more people who see these pictures the greater the chances of anyone - neighbor, spouse, or relative - recognizing a child, or a face, a hand, a tatoo, a dick, a couch or wallpaper or a chair.
THAT is how you protect the children. By subverting the message and keeping the only available evidence of a very serious crime a secret, all you protect are the people doing the most damage: the people committing the acts in the first place.
By your feeble logic, this page should also be "illegal" and the "publisher" thrown in jail. as would the people behind this one.
You think you can actually ban anything? Banning behavior drives profit. Banning non political speech drives profit in the name of self rightcheousness. Whether it's alcohol, pot, or child porn - the second you ban personal use of something, you increase the profit motive substantially, and you expose a substantial number of otherwise innocent people to both prosecution and persecution.
You hang the lynchers. You hang the rapists. You do not hang the people who view these things, no matter what their motive. Prosecuting people purely for motive amounts to thought crimes, and thought crimes are not the domain of a free society.
Fuck you and the hoofless horse you rode in on. Tell the kids living on the streets and being traded by mafiosi to quit complaining about their "stubbed toes."
The US ban on child pornography fosters this behavior. It makes child pornography profitable to the point of attracting organized crime. But, because it's banned the only people who would dare talk about it must be "part of it" themselves and, therefore, no one dares speak of it in public lest tehy "incriminate" themselves. So Moldavian, Ukrainian, Russian kids go on being traded and shipped off to Israeli and Turkish brothels and sold on websites, but it's alright because we don't have to see it.
Fuck you and your narrow, egotistical view. US money is prized everywhere, and laws like these drive profit and exploitation the world over.
Dude... get the fuck out from behind that firewall and look around. You are talking about "the internet" as if it exists only within the US.
Here's a clue: the Ukrainian ogvernment don't give a fuck about what the RIAA wants. Neither does Russia. neither does China. Not even, I would venture, does France. If you spoke french or russian (or cared to try to understand it) you would find a preponderance of stuff on the net that lies well outside the control of the **AA. And if you were capable of using proxies, that would allow you to surf these sites without revealing a US-bound IP, you would find a considerable amount of "free" or "nearly free" content.
Lots of talk lately about US based sites offering music downloads. HA! I can show you at least three russian sites that have been offering all-you-can-eat MP3 downloads for years. All 100% legal within the laws of Russia, despite the fact the RIAA would have such a site padlocked within minutes of its US launch.
Have substantially larger poulations than the US. Euroupean nations have existed quite a long time and, while I expect American nations did as well, we will never really know because thy were esssntially wiped from the earth long ago. But the relevant point is this is all nothing new - WE ARE. This is one of the youngest nations on earth, and certainly the youngest to develop the sort of power it has.
Many euro nations have more liberal laws than we do, yet they manage to survive just fine. One of the most influencial software projects ever came from Finland, for god's sake.
the problems of the US are, largely, problems of its own making. And I see no signs at all of the US slowing down this behavior anytime soon. I don't see any potential presidential candidates that give me any faith the next administration will be "better" than the one we have now, either in terms of worldwide aggression or in terms of protecting our own freedom.
If you want to see alarmist reactionism, I suggest you look to the Hill. I'm 41, and there is no way I would have kids in this country today. And you don't have to look far to see there are many Americans today who feel the same way as Ian, and are looking to vote with their feet.
same thing. And there ar PLENTY of banned books in the US. Books that you can go to jail for possessing. Books with real life ISBN numbers on the spine, that are now outlawed in the US. Books that are registered in the Library of Congress, that are no longer legal for individuals to keep in their own homes. How is that for twisted irony?
Child porn or no, it really doesn't matter to me. Better the people who want that shit can get it for free instead of making it themselves - or paying others to do it for them.
Laws that ban personal behavior have no place in a free society; information should never be the exclusive domain of the rich and/or well connected. The problem with laws that make shit illegal is that they really just make shit more expensive.
b) people install it then give up an hour after it looks like it doesn't
I have downloaded files from freenet that ate up 100% of my very limited bandwidth. It may take an hour for it to find some good routes, but once it does it can be very, very fast. I know people with dsl who have said it runs faster than their (paid) usenet servers.
It may take a week for your frenet client to get things sorted out. And if you never use it, it may NEVR get routes sorted out. It has to "learn where things are" and it cannot do that in an instant, and it cannot do that if you do not have it looking for things. Those first search pages are here for a reason; tell it to "find stuff" and let it run. So what if it takes all day? you don;t have to babysit it.
The problem with freenet is also its strength: it is distributed and, in a primitive sense, "cognitive." You do not expect a baby to walk its first day out of its mother - nor should you expect freent to "walk" the first day it runs on your machine.
Slashdot Mirror
Copyright is misapplied to source code. Either REVEAL THE SOURCE or you only get protection on that which you "publish" - namely, the binary.
Put up or shut up; no source, no copyright on the source. You won't share it, you don't need it protected.
The capsule system was inherently "modular" thus the inspiration for this bit of classic SF. The only irony I find in all this is how accurate SF may have once again proven to be.
Just don't tell anyone in Hollywood. After seeing what they did with Lost In space, I don't want even a chance of them getting hold of my fave SF series for one of their ticky-tacky plotless rehashes.
Sonic booms can be a helluva lot more than just "loud" or "annoying." They can implode outbuildings, knock shit off shelves, break windows... and toss around house trailers like a blast from a hurricane.
Too many people here still thinking the internet begins at the US border.
Question: all that stuff comes to pass. What do you think the governments of places like China and Cuba are going to do? North (and even South) Korea? The former soviet states that are hungry for anyone's dollars?
You'll see a booming trade in anonymous proxies, even more "unidentified" open proxies left "accidentally" exposed in places like China and Korea, eastern euro usenet and p2p services that guarantee anonymity...
Ironically, the best thing for "freedom on the internet" might well be for the US to crack down on cyber freedoms. The money that would flow into "cyber free" nations could do great things in third world countries. I saw a program the other night on some Mexican workers in NYC who sponsored the construction of an entire baseball stadium in their hometown. Cost all of $52,000 and would have cost at least fifty times that here.
Imagine what would happen if there was a sudden tide of money available to people who could offer reasonably high quality anonymous internet presence to all those US citizens living under the thumb of big brother.
I found ZERO "child porn." And I didn't use stupid fucking words like "lolita" and "underage" because there are thousands of websites using those same keywords and you can bet the stuff they're selling ain't really "underage" at all - not even at "Seventeen" magazine.
It doesn't take a genius to find CSV files on the web. And yeah, even csvs of "those" files can be found. So I typed in keywords based on filenames of real, actual "porn" listed in one of those csvs. And ya know what turned up?
Nothing
Nada
Zip
Know why? Because child porn is very fucking illegal. Not just in the US, but just about everywhere, that's why. Only a moron or a cop would even offer the shit for download over a service like kazaa, because your IP is just sitting there naked as your asshole will be when they deliver you to the state prison.
Then, I decided (so long as I have it installed) to search for someone I might actually be interested in looking at: Aria Giovanni. That turned up many more hits (keyword "aria"), but basically it revealed NOTHING I ain't already seen posted in the newsgroups a thousand fucking times. What images there were were scattered about willy-nilly (and of course not a csv to be found), and the few videos were mostly ancient rehashes of stuff that was posted to usenet long ago in much (much) higher quality.
But, just for the hell of it I clicked "download" on one, anyway. When it FINALLY connected (And people say FREENET is slow? Get a fucking grip!) the data trickled in a couple k a second. I let it get to about 100K, clicked "preview" (to see if it was even the video I asked for) at which time windows delivered me an exception and promptly killed the app.
If this is the technology that has the record industry running for cover (not to mention all those thumpers in congress) then, for god's sake, don't ever give one of these shaved apes the keys to usenet!
a) Sharing RIAA music is helping spread RIAA music, and we don't want that.
b) Suing your own customers is the short path to bankruptcy. Knowing how the record companies treat their own customers, Mom may think twice about spending twenty bucks on that Britney CD little Tammy wants...
All I can say is "hilarious." I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Scared the cat...
He said the music was to be donated to the EFF. I suspect the people participating in the auction knew full well the track wasn't "worth" anything at all. It's "worth" was in this auction's value as a test case, and that $16,000 would, no doubt, be well used defending this sale (should it have passed) in court.
I like the Spanish and Russian stuff the best, although I have discovered I also have a taste for Turkish hiphop and Egyptian techno.
You can get a taste of what's available right here....
Now, take an old 200MHz Pentium, FreeDOS, and CNC Pro and you got it all.
There's all kinds of uses for DOS. Lots of people still use it every day, even on their desktops. There's a LOT of old systems out there and recycling is a far better use for them than landfill.
Apparently you were not a reader of /., nor a reader of the EFF website, when Clinton was in office...
stop take a deep breath hyperbole propaganda you are drowning in it ....
god save us all from your teenage-level simplistic moralizing and righteous indignation
in short, grow the up, you are a moral child, easily manipulated by propaganda ....
How the fuck have you spewed more than twenty four of these utterly useless ad hominem attacks in this thread and escaped being modded a troll?
Well, congrats on your proud ignorance!
You obvious-lee haaave neevah huud oof calee-fon-ee-yah!
See... you did it again. You make an assinine statement and provide absolutely zero argument to support this absurd (cough) "logic."
Murder inarguably violates the civil rights of the victims. So does lynching (since it, simply, murder by hysteria). So do we make the collection of crime scene photos illegal? Do we imprison everyone who has a copy of In Cold Blood and a photo of Sharon Tate's mutilated body?
HOW does collecting images of a crime already committed "facilitate" said crime? What bizarre planet do you live on where this is a rational argument? Apparently in your world all witnesses are to be prosecuted as conspirators...
What is "compelling?" Is it "compelling" evidence you will rob a bank if you can get a ski mask? Is the logical response to this to ban all sales of ski masks? Is it logical to conclude people will not be able to mask their appearance if they cannot buy ski masks? Or to require "registration" of anyone purchasing a ski mask? Reminds me of a third rock episode where their plans to rob a bank were thwarted by the pens being chained to the tables.
Child porn is always a violation of rights of the child. No consent. The only way to make kiddie porn with real people is criminal.
So what? You hunt down the pornographers and prosecute them. Have you done any research on this? When you do, you will see figures turned up (by the police organizations themselves) that children pictured in child pornography are rarely found. I don't mean like one in ten - I mean like one in a thousand. That's one of the reasons it's such a big deal when they do actually track down someone who is creating the stuff.
This, despite them saying there are tens of thousands of images.
So, let's say there's 50 images of any given child - 50 pictures of a child being raped. That doesn't happen in a vacuum; there will be another person there (the rapist), and it will likely be filmed in a room, in a house, in a state or province or territory.
Banning the sharing of these photos means you are mandating secrecy. You are grossly limiting the number of people who will see these photos, which means the state is protecting child rapists.
How the fuck is that logical? Child pornography should be printed on goddamn milk cartons. It should be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL. There should be websites with HAVE YOU SEEN ME? printed in giant red letters followed by every recent image of molestation to be found. It should be the number one hit on google, because the more people who see these pictures the greater the chances of anyone - neighbor, spouse, or relative - recognizing a child, or a face, a hand, a tatoo, a dick, a couch or wallpaper or a chair.
THAT is how you protect the children. By subverting the message and keeping the only available evidence of a very serious crime a secret, all you protect are the people doing the most damage: the people committing the acts in the first place.
You think you can actually ban anything? Banning behavior drives profit. Banning non political speech drives profit in the name of self rightcheousness. Whether it's alcohol, pot, or child porn - the second you ban personal use of something, you increase the profit motive substantially, and you expose a substantial number of otherwise innocent people to both prosecution and persecution.
You hang the lynchers. You hang the rapists. You do not hang the people who view these things, no matter what their motive. Prosecuting people purely for motive amounts to thought crimes, and thought crimes are not the domain of a free society.
The US ban on child pornography fosters this behavior. It makes child pornography profitable to the point of attracting organized crime. But, because it's banned the only people who would dare talk about it must be "part of it" themselves and, therefore, no one dares speak of it in public lest tehy "incriminate" themselves. So Moldavian, Ukrainian, Russian kids go on being traded and shipped off to Israeli and Turkish brothels and sold on websites, but it's alright because we don't have to see it.
Fuck you and your narrow, egotistical view. US money is prized everywhere, and laws like these drive profit and exploitation the world over.
That's it! No more bananas for YOU!
Who keeps giving the monkeys the mod points?
Here's a clue: the Ukrainian ogvernment don't give a fuck about what the RIAA wants. Neither does Russia. neither does China. Not even, I would venture, does France. If you spoke french or russian (or cared to try to understand it) you would find a preponderance of stuff on the net that lies well outside the control of the **AA. And if you were capable of using proxies, that would allow you to surf these sites without revealing a US-bound IP, you would find a considerable amount of "free" or "nearly free" content.
Lots of talk lately about US based sites offering music downloads. HA! I can show you at least three russian sites that have been offering all-you-can-eat MP3 downloads for years. All 100% legal within the laws of Russia, despite the fact the RIAA would have such a site padlocked within minutes of its US launch.
Many euro nations have more liberal laws than we do, yet they manage to survive just fine. One of the most influencial software projects ever came from Finland, for god's sake.
the problems of the US are, largely, problems of its own making. And I see no signs at all of the US slowing down this behavior anytime soon. I don't see any potential presidential candidates that give me any faith the next administration will be "better" than the one we have now, either in terms of worldwide aggression or in terms of protecting our own freedom.
If you want to see alarmist reactionism, I suggest you look to the Hill. I'm 41, and there is no way I would have kids in this country today. And you don't have to look far to see there are many Americans today who feel the same way as Ian, and are looking to vote with their feet.
Child porn or no, it really doesn't matter to me. Better the people who want that shit can get it for free instead of making it themselves - or paying others to do it for them.
Laws that ban personal behavior have no place in a free society; information should never be the exclusive domain of the rich and/or well connected. The problem with laws that make shit illegal is that they really just make shit more expensive.
b) people install it then give up an hour after it looks like it doesn't
I have downloaded files from freenet that ate up 100% of my very limited bandwidth. It may take an hour for it to find some good routes, but once it does it can be very, very fast. I know people with dsl who have said it runs faster than their (paid) usenet servers.
It may take a week for your frenet client to get things sorted out. And if you never use it, it may NEVR get routes sorted out. It has to "learn where things are" and it cannot do that in an instant, and it cannot do that if you do not have it looking for things. Those first search pages are here for a reason; tell it to "find stuff" and let it run. So what if it takes all day? you don;t have to babysit it.
The problem with freenet is also its strength: it is distributed and, in a primitive sense, "cognitive." You do not expect a baby to walk its first day out of its mother - nor should you expect freent to "walk" the first day it runs on your machine.
Well, now that you ask: they're ALL criminals...