Slashdot Mirror
Phoenix Bios to Incorporate DRM
defishguy writes "Extreme Tech is reporting that Phoenix Technologies is shopping a DRM-capable BIOS to OEMS. Reportedly the BIOS with DRM enabled allows for software to be tracked and traced from one PC to another." See also this older story about AMI.
If not, the name was inappropriate.
...I can buy a different motherboard with that on it, thank you very much.
Free market. It's a bugger
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I guess this means goodbye to BIOS flashing?
do() || do_not();
how long before someone comes up with a 'workaround'? As long as there are security measures, there are people with no goals in life but to circumvent those measures.
[ Don't reply to this ]
Now Phoenix is falling in to the DRM trap?!?
When will the hurting stop?
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
Looks like we've gotten a heads up on whose equipment not to buy anymore.
Thanks a lot.
Ah, something else to disable in the BIOS the first time I boot up.
My p3-700 just keeps lookin' better and better!
-72
-Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
Ah, but will we be able to use it to track Virus writers, spammers and other unpleasant people?
:)
If so.. its probably a good thing. Just make sure you don't steal anything, and if you do, use a mate's PC
Could this kill Linux or even Windows XP if it doesn't have the ability to work with the bios?
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
Why would OEMs buy something that would piss off their customers? I can see Sony doing it to their VAIOs but would Dell?
If something like this sells, it just makes custom building of PCs more attractive IMO.
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
An OEM will also have to decide whether or not to allow an end user to turn the DRM feature off, Eades said.
This option is most likely be available for a while. You will have the option to turn off the default enabled DRM system in your computer. As more and more people become comfortable (and ignorant) of the fact that DRM is enabled (and more and more companies start enforcing restrictions via the DRM'd BIOS) we will have less and less choice but to have it enabled.
This *IS* scary. DRM in Word is *NOT*. Just to clear that up.
A few questions..
1) Are there any?
2) How much bios code is reusable between completely different motherboards?
3) Will we always need a bios?
The DRM software will be shipped as a default option inside the cME package. "It's up to the OEM whether or not to insert it on the machine," he said. "We are offering it as a default option and it's up to them to remove it."
An OEM will also have to decide whether or not to allow an end user to turn the DRM feature off, Eades said.
Since when does these schmucks start thinking that I as a consumer doesnt have the right to take apart, enable/disable features, and smash to smithreens whatever shit I buy from them?
Every other product or service that we are seeing these days for sale are increasingly tipping the balance in favor of the seller. Let buyer go to hell, be the new motto.
I can understand the importance of having digitally signed code and safe code, but tracking software across PC's sound a lot like 1984 than 2004.
Rapid Nirvana
Don't do it, you're pretty easy to replace.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Apple is looking better and better every day.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
... if it's ignored on another level. Remember, even if there is DRM capability, if it's not implemented *cough*linux*cough* then it doesn't matter.
Remember, Intel's Processor ID was supposed to do this too, and everyone that I know turned it off. And if this Phoenix BIOS DRM technology prevents large-scale installations from repairing computers by swapping out bad hardware, like motherboards, corporate IT won't buy it.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Now, it means "Built-In Overlord's Spy!"
So what? don't most OSes bypass most of the BIOS code anyway?
...Apple becomes the only computer maker with its hands clean.
Think about it: most PC enthusiasts around here build their own computers. However, now they will be faced with DRM at the motherboard layer. No matter of software liberation, from Linux to FreeBSD, will be able to cleanse motherboards of this impurity. Apple, on the other hand, has never incorporated any form of DRM into their basic system. Sure, there's iTunes music store, but its DRM is limited to the application level. I boycott iTunes because I care about the Right of First Sale, for example.
I know that it hurts to pay an additional $2,000 for the convenience of a computer company that respects your Freedom, but trust me: once you go Mac, you don't go black, Jack!
I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
Oh, glorious day. I was so concerned that our new entertainment industry overlords would be displeased.
...Looks like the next time I upgrade, I'm trading in my P4 2.4c for a new G5 instead of a new P5. Perhaps someday Mac might be the majority not due to their software or design, but the fact that they like to have customers...
Certain SlashDot personalities can be useful in controlling the masses working in your Silicon Mines.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
EOM
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Quick, flash your PHOENIX with SCO.EXE and maybe we can get Darl to claim its thier IP and destroy it from the inside.
/* * pope1 */
Our good friends at the RIAA are going to be sticking to this like flys on shit. After all, they seem to enjoy getting their feet wet with stuff that stinks.
This is going to be a big bitch and complain session about liberties and what not, and I agree. However complaining never solves anything. The simple and most effective solution is to *not* buy boards with these chipsets.
Also don't think that your purchase won't make a difference.
E.
Never rub another man's rhubarb - The Joker
If I was Jack or Hillary, I would have already gone through 3 pairs of underwear today.
(Note: not because of bowel control problems - that's reserved for Steve Jobs)
Slashdotter fantasy: We as consumers throughout the world can take a stand and boycott DRM enabled BIOSes, therefore chasing Phoenix Tech to full back or go out of business.
Reality: Most consumers wouldn't give a rat's ass about it as they are busy looking at porn off the net. When it's too late, they will blame _______ (insert big business and Republicans if you are liberal, or trial lawyers and Democrats if you are conservative) about it on Slashdot.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
I found their email address, contact them and tell them how much this sucks.
investor_relations@phoenix.com
how exactly can the BIOS track the software on the machine? Seeing as to how the type of file system used is bios independant.... can they see my .mp3 files if the drive is formatted as a novell partition, or an os2 partition?
I dont really see how the BIOS can have anything to do with DRM. and no, I didnt rtfa.
In the article on Extreme Tech, guess which industry has given their approval, on the last line yet?
"'Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable,' Eades added."
It is obvious who they are playing to.
"I want to know God's thoughts...The rest are details." Albert Einstein
If the BIOS hooks are there, but the software is trusted (free) and known not to use them, can the feature effectively be therefore disabled?
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
So that's any VIA chipset or Phoenix/AMI BIOS that I'm not going to buy.
#include <sig.h>
Now that you are supplying DRM Bios's I will no longer consider products containing your Bios's in any form Yours
Just because Big Brother will be able to look inside our PC's and know every which program we have installed, is no reason for concern. Everything that Big Brother does is for OUR good, Big Brother will protect us from all those software/movie/music/ebook pirating evil doers out there. WE ALL LOVE BIG BROTHER.
Phoenix is OBVIOUSLY in bed with SCO on this one so they can find all the nasty people running Linux without a license. Very sneaky! Keel SCO!
-What have you contributed lately?
That is a feature I won't purchase!!!
HenryJamesFeltus.com
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added.
Apparently Phoenix and their OEMs need to be re-educated about who their customers are.
I've never owned an OEM PC, but have been considering Dell for my next box. If I find Dell is using a DRM'd BIOS that I can't turn off, the box will return to Dell.
Optimisticly speaking, this development has a number of potentially positive outcomes for us:
A. Pheonix & OEMS again re-educated about the fact that customers value their privacy.
B. Hackers paying more attenting to contents and modification of BIOS.
C. Motivation for additional development of OpenBIOS projects.
D. A court case regarding the rights of customers who purchase PCs and produce content with them. (OK, this one is a long shot...)
This is a bad, bad thing, and another reason for folks to start considering other options. For example, I'm now on my iBook running Gentoo. That Open firmware is much more attractive to me for future boxen. I've gotta tell ya, I still want to run Linux only, but damnit if the Apple's aren't looking better and better. Of course my AMD still runs all of my games (in Linux), for now at least.
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
Huh?
I build all my own PC's and I've never used Pheonix bios, usually AMI or Award. You make it sound like there is there is no alternative to DRM hardware in PC land.
And as far as a computer company that respects your Freedom goes, well, I've tried replacing a 10 dollar lcd display cable in an old power book before and I had to hunt around for one on the grey market because no authorized Apple dealer was permitted to sell the part to an end user. They wanted a couple of hundred dollars for this really simple fix. Thats just goofy. I'll keep my additional $2,000 and my freedom to choose the hardware that goes into my machines thankyouverymuch.
air and light and time and space
It it routine for various motherboards to have hacked BIOS developed for them (usually to turn on hidden features). This won't be any different, within a few weeks of a motherboard's release there will be versions of the bios released that will disable the DRM, exactly like how DVD drives have region free firmware released (I usually flash my drive before first use). So the only people this will be relevant to are those who are uneasy flashing their bios.
So if I understand correctly it (will be) on by default, OEM's can choose to "opt-out", but the end-user get no say(?)
Knowing very little about the BIOS-level stuff, is it at all possible to circumvent?
(Yes, not buying a *goddammed* "DRM-BIOS powered" motherboard would be a solution, but if it's already there?)
668.5
When piracy will be impossible under Windows, guess which OS will replace it?
I'm reminded of one of the only TV commercials ever published by 3dfx. An engineer introduces his new chipset, capable of billions of calculations per second. With pride and courage in his voice, he speaks of how this chip will allow them to revolutionize medicine and scientific research, saving billions of lives. An interruption over the intercom says, "Excuse me people, we changed our minds; we're going to use it to play video games."
We have remarkable technology at hand, capable of verifying the source and integrity of data transmissions, communications, financial records, all manner of irreplacable information. We're going to use it to keep people from listening to music. Irrespective of copyright and how poor and hungry Metallica and Dr Dre are right now... that's a totally different issue. We're going to use it to keep people from listening to music. I hope somebody's proud.
-j
When majority of computers are capable of DRM, then software and movie companies will start making products that work only if DRM is enabled. Then you don't have many options. You can only access the content if the copyright holder thinks that your computer is safe.
Is this crap opsys agnostic? Will I still be able to boot linux and/or BSD on one of these BIOS types? Or is the build-your-own-and-put-wotever-you-want-on-it era over?
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
Why not just get the law enforcement all bothered by the fact that criminals will love DRM!
DRM will allow them to encrypt their illegal doings, so the data can't be moved off of the PC / DRM device without the invegated person knowing that someone else was trying to access their system.
Then think about the whistleblowers who wouldn't beable to report things to the EPA / FBI / SEC.
Then start with the terrorist, and what a DRM system would do to protect their actions.
But, but, law enforcement would have a special access to the system, people will say. Yeah, and how long will that be until that's hacked? DMCA or no DMCA.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
I'm not so opposed to DRM as long as, like you say, I can go buy a non-DRM motherboard somewhere else.
Think about it. Putting aside copying issues, trusted computing is about designing hardware that everyone else can trust to behave responsibly.
As I cleaned a few hundred infected e-mails out of my inbox for the nth time, I have to admit that my trust in the average computer user to act responsibly is diminishing. For the average joe/jane who buys a computer from Dell, I'm all in favor of DRM if it means that he/she will be forced to operate that computer responsibly. Do these people need root access? Is it even safe to give it to them? I am forced to think that the answer is no. These are people who treat the computer like an appliance; after all, they don't need the schematics of their TV or toaster to use it properly.
In a lot of cases, putting your faith in the goodwill of the average, non-technically-literate person to keep their OS updated and virus-free is an absurd proposition. As long as I can have my linux, I say: bring on the DRM.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Pre-DRM enabled motherboards. I have quite a few Asus boards here, good up to (IIRC) Athlon 3000s. Should be good enough for a long time to come for the average customer.
What concerns me, is the addition of DRM into, say, the next generation video cards. It's all well and good to "merely" have an Intel P4 3.0 Ghz, or Amd Athlon 3000+, but what happens when Doom3 or beyond comes out and a new video card is needed? What is said new card has DRM on it, and decides not to play any videos you happen to own?
In short, where do we draw the line? Corps have finally started to get wise on the old adage about a frog and boiling water, it's high time Joe Generic does as well.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
This can be hacked and is irrelevant et al. Move along now, nothing to see here.
668.5
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added.
Are we talking about the entertainment industry as PC buyers, or as a group with special interest in seeing the actual consumers shackled with xxAA-approved DRM?
When did a better user experience get lost? Even BIOS used to get better over time (more flexible boot options, software jumper settings, etc).
Now it seems the "magic money" isn't in making it better, but in making it more crippled. Unfortunately I can think of a lot more things that should be done before that one.
...this is different than Intel's rather public gaffe in touting the processor serial number? Won't it face exactly the same customer outrage?
...Are those you don't care or won't worry. Everyone who this could possibly be used to "check up" on will be smart enough to go to Google and find a firmware hack or something to bypass the DRM check. Why do companies keep implementing encryption and copy-protection and DRM checking when they know even my 15 year old brother who spends all his time on Kazaa looking at pr0n knows enough about computers to download software to get around what he needs to get around.
Let's face it, Microsoft and Phoenix and the RIAA may be acting calm and collected, but by putting DRM checks in BIOS and suing 13 year olds, they are lashing out hopelessly. They know they can't stop what's happening, all they need to do is admit it...And they won't.
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/04/24/1312231.shtml ?tid=106
Crippled CDs
BIOS
motherboards
Hard Drives
Consumer Audio (Minidisk, MP3 players)
Music (Buymusic.com - I have a special grudge against these guys, see my journal.)Itunes (gotta be fair, eh?)
Video Players
ect. ect. (Don't forget MS!)
This would be an excellent way for others to be educated on the general poo that is DRM, and also give regular joes a list of stuff *NOT* to buy. Perhaps a forum reviews and on breaking/ circumventing/ turning DRM back upon its evil creators would be in order as well.
Sadly, the only way to vote and be heard is with $$$, these days.
Well theres only a few gigantic reasons why not: 1. most AutoCAD work is not 3D. 2. Many government organizations demand AutoCAD as both the file format and software used for engineering applications. 3. AutoCAD has many toolkits and expansions written for it, also required by government organizations.
Sorry about that: We're running a bit behind schedule. We apologize to our consumers for these delays. We promise we're going to release BigBrother 1.0 very soon now. Thank you for your continued patience.
Your friends at CIA/NSA/FBI/RIAA/MPAA.
I will return as defective any PC or mobo I buy that has this feature enabled. I don't even care if I can disable it, if it's turned on when I plug it in, it goes back to the store.
A few thousand incidents of this sort might tilt the profit and loss scales in a more sane direction. Profit is the only metric manufacturers really have to listen to.
I was under the impression Linux overrode the BIOS. So, does this affect Linux users at all? Also, does this restrict what software you run, or is just a key storage area?
Make mine Nvidia! (on the x86 platform)... Otherwise, its Mac all the way... So how much money does everyone think Phoenix is receiving from Microsoft for this Palladium-esque *feature*?
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Not only have I seen this coming, but I've been yelling about it on /. every time a related article appears. The future is clear: we'll no longer have control over our PCs. They'll be uniquely ID tagged and software will load on one, and only one machine. Peripherals, CPUs and busses will conspire with the OS to refuse to perform I/O on rights controlled files or for software that isn't propertly licensed by authorized software vendors.
The great mass of consumers will be clueless when this happens - they'll buy a new computer and never notice anything different and things will seem to work fine - except that they won't be able to play downloaded MP3s or videos. There will be a little complaining, but not much.
More importantly, every file you create - and maybe only read - WILL (and have no doubts about this) be tagged with identifiers which can be tracked back to your computer.
Advice? Argue against this whenever and however possible without being declared paranoid. Buy a new computer the day before these things go into effect and keep it forever.
Embedding DRM in hardware is great news - it ensures that DRM will die a huge, flaming death.
Any protection mechanism of this scope - designed to work on many kinds of media, on all kinds of hardware, and on a host of operating systems - is bound to be full of holes when it's first released. Even Microsoft's audio-processing filters can be used to strip out DRM (i.e., to transform a locked sound file into an unprotected stream.)
Since this is known, the only really sensible way to implement an encryption method like this is to engage in an arms race with hackers. Release a first version, let hackers rip it to shreds, then release DRM v2.0 with those holes patched. Lather, rinse, repeat. If your encryption system has a sound basis and you're patching it in a smart, sensible way, the hacks will have to get more and more creative. Soon users will have to go to great lengths to defeat the scheme - mod chips, soldering connections onto circuit boards - so you've essentially made it tight enough that casual users won't bother. You can then crack down on the big sources of hacked media (e.g., large file-sharers on Kazaa), and voila, your scheme is fine.
But here's the key: Inherent in this arms race is the ability of the protection scheme to evolve in a robust way to patch holes. You can't do that if you create a hardware platform. Every new generation of DRM will (a) have to be backwards-compatible, in which case it can be broken on hardware running the older (unsecured) version; or (b) not be backwards-compatible, in which case you're breaking all of the old hardware.
Practical example: Look at today's media players - Quicktime Player, WMP, RealPlayer, DivX player. When new encoding mechanisms are invented for them, users have to grab a new version of the player, or at least download new codecs, to interpret files encoded under the new scheme. The new media won't play on the new players. This is greatly annoying, but users put up with it because it's software and it's easy to update.
Hardware is no such thing. Every time you release DRM version x+1, users have to download new drivers for their video card, sound card, hard drive, and bus and flash-update the ROMs on each device. Forget it. Users aren't going to put up with having to update their hardware devices every six weeks.
So, be happy: embedding DRM in hardware ensures the grand defeat of the whole thing.
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
Is there any real benefit to the user with the inclusion of this technology. I know the article claims "rovides an enhanced BIOS that allows greater interaction with the operating system"; but does this affect the users experience? Or is this simply a move to force DRM down our throats? I'm not trolling; I just wonder if there is an upside to the consumer.
"Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs" - George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
While the cME isn't directly a part of Microsoft's Next-Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB), known previously as Palladium, Eades said the technology is "complementary"
*cough* bullshit *cough*
They can keep changing the name but we know who's directing this technology.
The article calls it DRM-ware, but surely "SPY-ware" is more appropriate.
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
The truly big problem will be the need to repurchase your huge software investment each time you upgrade to a new machine. This will put momentum AWAY from buying new hardware. It seems the hardware OEMs will be shooting themselves in both feet if they use this.
My guess is that as long as they offer similar capabilities (secure key storage, unique ID for the computer, etc.) then Windows will probably have an OS API to provide some sort of uniform access. Windows applications that want to take advantage of these features (Windows Media Player, software license enforcement schemes) will write to those APIs.
Linux will be unaffected unless someone wants to write similar APIs.
It's not like this is the end of PCs as we know them, unless they can get the world governments to mandate DRM for all computers.
When you have to register your unique computer ID with the police by law then it's game over. Won't that be fun? And it WILL happen, it's inevitable in my opinion. Not trolling, just pointing out how human affairs go. Wonder what the end game in all of this is?
the lockdown of our computers and the taking back of the digitial domain the suits foolishly let out of their hands.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
Reading the article, looks like a built-in troyan that will spy me. Crap.
Hee... its the clients of this people the enterinament industry or these people that buy computers?
-Woof woof woof!
For nearly as long as they have been making motherboards. Ever boot into the BIOS on a machine, only to see three or four switchable options (or none at all)? That is the manufacturer deciding (implicitly, perhaps) that they don't want you playing with PCI timings or shadowing or whatnot. It is for this reason that many motherboard reviews examine the level of BIOS configurability; a true customizer would never want a crippled board.
==========
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
""Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added."
The Entertainment industy is not buying lots of computers, folks, its PAYING PHOENIX TO PUT DRM IN ITS BIOS. That's why they are a customer. Can it afford to pay all BIOS companies to do this? Yes, it can.
Be afraid.
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added.
That's funny, when I buy a computer, I tend to think of myself as the customer, not "the music industry."
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
: The New American Corporate Soviet
Loss of Control and Backdoors
Read Microsoft Aims for Protection--From Users
NGSCB + RIAA = NSA + KGB + CIA. ( R -> K )
From the Transcript of Internet Caucus Panel Discussion. Re: Administration's new encryption policy. Rep. Curt Weldon's statement
Read all of Curt Weldon's statement.Consider that as of 26 August 2003:, There are currently 22 unpatched vulnerabilities in Microsoft's Internet Explorer - many of the serous vulnerabilities Microsoft has not provide a fix to patch the hole in years!
Attestation Monopoly
Microsoft's NGSCB model for DRM content management grants Microsoft effective root digital certificate control over both software and content. It would be a monopoly even stronger than Microsoft's existing desktop dominance. Just as with Microsoft's proprietary file formats and protocols, the network effect would result in any non-dominate player or vendor facing too great a barrier to provide effective monopoly negating free-market competition.
Loss of Fair Use Rights and doctrine of First Sale
Microsoft's NGSCB DRM model also grants content providers far too much restrictive power. For example, in the USA and in most of the world, you are legally allowed to tape broadcast content for later replay ( timeshifting ), gathering evidence for making a complaint, or legitmate research. The DRM model can be used by content providers to circumvent these legal rights. Also if Microsoft or the Codec developer drops support for a format or even a particular digital key, all that content "protected" by that methord or key becomes unreadable.
The DRM model circumvents the Doctrine of First Sale, by side shifting content from being "goods" into a so-called service. When I purchase a DVD, I own that particular physical instance of that DVD and the right to view the content on it. I expect to be able to play that DVD in any DVD player I choose to, including the DVD drive in my Linux system. Also when I have finished viewing that DVD, I expect to be able to pass or even resell that DVD to any party I choose. I might even give that DVD to my local library, and I am legally entitled to do so. As DMCA protected CSS DVDs already limits what you can do with a DVD, Microsoft's plans f
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added
Guess what, dickpump. They're not your customers - we are!
Sadly, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers doesn't use AutoCAD. That's beuracracy for ya.
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added.
Suprise suprise.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
The whole "Track and Trace" thing is what bothers me the most. What information are they going to send? What about a remote exploit? What if I have a firewall? What amount of network usage will this require?
You can't just have a low-level part of the computer like the BIOS start connecting to the Internet to send out information and not expect huge security and privacy problems.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
Do you see that on any P4 motherboards? Of course not. Will we buy the crap MB's that ship with the DRM crap? Of course not.
Will that stop RIAA & MPAA from trying to grease the pockets of MB manufactures into accepting this? At first no. But it will become too expensive for them and be considered a loss soon enough.
~~I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank...~~
I bought a new Toshiba notebook (Satellite A15-S127) recently, and I found C-dilla DRM software by the Macrovision people running in the preinstall of WinXP. I must say I was rather offended :(. But I had no problem uninstalling it, along with all the other "trial version" and "sign up for internet" crap on there. I bet it's still running on as many clueless users machines as Gator :(
By the way, no, I would not have rather installed Linux, even if it did clean out C-dilla faster :P
Hell Hath No Fury Like An Informed Consumer.
I will be sure that my company will not be purchasing any systems incorporating a phoenix bios.
Very cool idea.
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.
Don't forget the iPod. Great little device for moving _any_ digital media between two firewire equipped computers :)
Phoneix is always cooking up a get rich quick scheme but never seem to pay off:
14 year PTEC stock chart. If you invested $4 in 1990, you'd have turned it in $5 by now. These guys don't know what they're doing. If they can't deliver a reasonable ROI, they how can they deliver a "enhancement" to their BIOS? Your money is better of in a money market and you BIOS is better off without Phoenix.
This simply means it is time for more people to contribute to the following Open Source BIOS projects:
See: LinuxBIOS and
Open BIOS.
Also of interest is this announcement of an Open Source BIOS that successfully booted Windows 2000. (It also boots Linux and OpenBSD.) This was in November of 2002, so there may have been more progress since. They also got help from the bochs project.
Sign up to help these teams today!
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
I will be certain not to purchase products containing Phoenix BIOS now.
.
Matter of fact, I'm seriously considering using the Linux BIOS
I am trying to decide, going by the list of supported mobos, which mobo to buy next.
I'm tired of all this big brother crap. Mark me down as a refusnik.
..Called DMCA. They can jail your butt for modding your PC to circumvent the DRM.
I'd recommend a good heat sink. Scorching the MoBo rarely increases performance even for Phoenix. ;)
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Working for a company that is attempting to manage laptops that were given to every single user (except the janitors) I know the frustrations of tracking and locating these things. If this lives up to what it promises it will help in many regards (asset management, lost, theft, equip. audit reports, etc.). I am curious as to if Pheonix will also implement the anti-theft technology I saw a thread about a while back. Of course this will probably be put on laptops after I am here and I hope so for the guys that take my place (I pity the fool that has to manage the tracking of 6000 laptops worldwide).
[[ the only 15 letter word that is spelled without repeating a letter is uncopyrightable: it may soon be, however. ]]
Last week, despite the fact that finances are tight for me at the moment, I had this odd urge to go and buy the motherboard/CPU/memory combo for my next computer (I always build my own).
As I was contemplating 'why,' considering that my current system does pretty well, I realized that one big reason was that I wanted to get something that was (1), somewhat future-proof; and (2), that did not currently implement DRM ANYwhere in the mom-board's hardware, all because I hate the idea of a bunch of MBA's/CEO's/whatever telling me what I can or cannot do with my computer.
Now, seeing this story as I'm getting ready to put the new system together, it makes me wonder all over again if there really is any such thing as a coincidence.
For the benefit of the curious: I got a Tyan Tiger MPX, a pair of Athlon MP 2400+'s, half a gig of Corsair ECC memory, and a PC Power & Cooling 510ATX supply. Should keep me going for another 5-6 years at least.
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
I upgrade my hardware a lot with nothing more complex than a floppy disk, if that. Additionally, security holes/bugs can often be fixed without breaking the interface. I'm not sure the fact that DRM is in hardware is such the black/white case you make it out to be.
One thing that makes this country great, is the freedom to choose. Even if all the OEMs decide it's a good thing, we can still buy off the shelf motherboards and build the PCs ourselves like we did in the good ole days. Also, there is always LinuxBIOS (Google cache). I'm sure they'd kick it into high gear and come up with viable solutions.
---
Lousy rotten karmic retribution.
Many of the more popular boards have "modded" BIOSes anyways; like my ECS K7S5A and my ABit KT7A-RAID for example. People will modify firmware on Raite and Apex DVD players. No matter how encrypted the BIOS is, someone will eventually crack it; and as long as the software has to be backwardly compatible with non-DRM BIOSes there will be a way to sever the links.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, don't most operating systems bypass the BIOS for video/audio/peripherals and disk with their own drivers? How does this enhance anything?
-Phil
Shoot questions, first ask later...
No, that's fortunate.
Acquiescence leads to obliteration
Anyone can patch their bios to be whatever they please. There will be hacked phoenix/ami bios patch files on kazaa inside of a week.
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
Time to put Phoenix on my $#!+ list
See the Pictures of the Flood of '08
There is no government agency that can legislate "only signed OS's can use the internet".
Yet. Does everybody forget the effort to pass the SSSCA aka CBDTPA?
Will I retire or break 10K?
And watch the U.S. federal government block trade with countries that don't have a strong copyright law, strong enforcement thereof, a Bono Act, and a DMCA.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The OpenBios project has been in the works for a while now.
While interesting and useful, the OpenBIOS project doesn't solve the DRM problem. If a software vendor, whether selling OSs or applications, chooses to make their software such that it relies on a PC with a "DRM-enabled" BIOS, it won't work on a PC which utilizes an OpenBIOS.
The only means to fight against DRM is to encourage and support legislation which guarantees the rights of consumers to backup, copy, move, transcode, etc., purchased multimedia and software products.
Maybe the conspiracy thing is going to do you.
I read the PC Magazine article Build Your Own PC! after building my own and they spell it out very simply. Their step-by-step approach could easily be accomplished by many people. Their home-built high-end system performed better than an equivelent Dell Dimension XPS for less money ($3673 vs. $4488).
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.
Hey, buddy. Wanna buy one of these coloumbian CPUs? No drm! Highest quality! I get them from a guy i know.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
It's not even hardwired into the card, so you can just tell the card to change it's MAC and it will.
Here's how to do it on windows.
In Linux its just as easy:
ifconfig interface hw ether 23:23:23:23:23:23
DRM is scary because, if it's done right, you wouldn't be able to turn it off. It's a much more serious effort than serial numbers and MAC addresses.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Send Phoenix abusive email. Tell them you will never buy their products EVER AGAIN. Intuit recently deployed DRM and their customers screamed so loud that the CEO nearly shit himself and the company backpedalled like mad.
If this happens enough times, DRM will die in the ass as it should.
If there is one thing I have always admired about the U.S. it's that people speak their mind.
Complacency now by those of you who are too pathetic and lazy to complain will cause great suffering later for you later. So be smart because now is the time to get ANGRY. Not later.
The great danger though is if DRM ends up being widely deployed enough that only or two major PC makers isn't using it. Then all of a sudden the idea of legislating DRM-only PCs is a plausible prospect. Something the media cartels would dearly love. They would probably lose the first time but there would inevitably be some comprimise. Then they would try again in the typical relentless fashion and more rights would go away. Stallman's prescience is amazing.
...for open source.
:-) It simply makes people calculate the true cost of the closed source software they are running.
Anything that helps to stop piracy is good for open source. I'm not saying that piracy gets my feathers ruffled. Stopping piracy means that you have to legitimately pay for the software you're using. Just as I've paid for my Linux.
I also find it quite amusing that the biggest software pirates I know are not merely Windows users, but anti-open source, Windows advocates.
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
I bought a Dell Dimension with top-of-the-line stuff for $1600. Yes, that includes 3ghz P4 with 800mhz fsb.
What do you get for that extra $2200?
bitching and complianing can make things better, you just have to bitch and complain to the right people.
All boards will have this, and there will be no choice. Not buying the product isn't a choice because computer area neccessity. Using open bios isn't a choice, because software makers will make software that must have drm in the BIOS.
Bitch and complian, loadly and clearly. write you representitevs and explain why this is bad. write the manufaturers, write the software companies, protest, make fliers, spread the word.
complaining does change things.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just don't buy it. Refuse. I believe in this so much that I'll live with my present collection of CPUs. Also consider adding your support to one of the number of free BIOS projects out there (OpenBIOS, LinuxBIOS, etc.).
These projects are at various levels of maturity (OpenBIOS seems to be just getting started, LinuxBIOS already boots Linux on a number of motherboards).
Compare this to Windows Media Player, which charges additional fees to rip to MP3.
That's because MP3 is patented, and the company that controls the patent rights refuses to license encoders royalty-free. Windows users do have CDex, which does encode to Ogg.
Will I retire or break 10K?
An original recording, owned and copyrighted to him
How could he be sure that the recording was in fact original? It may have been a cover of a copyrighted song. Even if he wrote the song, how could he be sure enough to prove in court that the song he wrote was in fact an original musical work?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I don't know how much of Phoenix's and AMI's business the "geek" group represents, but I would think white-box builders in general are a substantial group. As word of DRM has been spreading, most folks who build their own do not seem to like it. So for companies like ABIT, ASUS, SOYO, etc. it is definitely in their best interest to offer non-DRM boards. The simple fact is, this should be offered as a software model or even an add on chip if someone really wants this for their corp. desktops. Making this manditory, I hope, will produce a backlash. This seems part and parcel with the whole movement to restric "fair use." This aspect of consumer law is being so marginalized right now and the general public isn't getting outraged nearly enough. JAV
How long before mod-chips for PC's are sold on the black market?
Face it folks, the computer is no longer a geek's toy. Now that everybody and their brother is using the internet to commit copyright violations, DRM is inevitable, if not by force of law, by force of market and monopoly.
How many of you remember when VCR's came without macrovision? How many of you can find a VCR without macrovision today? Because the computer has become the de facto entertainment device of the new millenium, it is inevitable that it will be illegal to make a computer without DRM in the near future. This is the first step. NOW is the time to call your elected officials.
Here's a clue: the Ukrainian ogvernment don't give a fuck about what the RIAA wants. Neither does Russia. neither does China. Not even, I would venture, does France. If you spoke french or russian (or cared to try to understand it) you would find a preponderance of stuff on the net that lies well outside the control of the **AA. And if you were capable of using proxies, that would allow you to surf these sites without revealing a US-bound IP, you would find a considerable amount of "free" or "nearly free" content.
Lots of talk lately about US based sites offering music downloads. HA! I can show you at least three russian sites that have been offering all-you-can-eat MP3 downloads for years. All 100% legal within the laws of Russia, despite the fact the RIAA would have such a site padlocked within minutes of its US launch.
We have the entertainment industry to thank for all this paranoia. The hardware and software vendors are peeing all over themselves trying to make friends with the RIAA, MPAA and the like to avoid any potential legal trouble.
... nobody asked me if I would want to be spied upon by my goddamn motherboard! Heck, if you're gonna go that far why not put a TCPI/IP stack and SMTP engine in there and have the thing just phone-home to the FBI if it thinks I'm doing something I shouldn't?
... if you're too drunk, it don't start. I'd rather have that than a motherboard that tells me what I can and cannot do with my own software, and squeals on me to boot (pun intended.)
/. crowd? What you would call a group of people that feels increasingly beseiged by everyone and consequently feels the need to presume everyone to be a criminal copyright infringer and/or softare-intellectual-property-music-video pirate who is out to get them? Paranoid? You decide.
Do your market research, guys
We are turning into a nation of paranoid sheep, much like those that existed in East Germany before the Wall fell. Here's an idea: let's put mandatory breath-a-lyzers in all motor vehicles
Are there any practicing psychologists or psychoanalysts in the
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
So by that logic, your post should be DRMed, since I can't be sure you thought of it first. All of your emails should be DRMed, and you definitely shouldn't be able to forward anything you receive. And your boss shouldn't be able to read that document you sent him, you may have plagiarized a phrase somewhere unconciously. Are you a poet, author, advertiser, etc.? Well, don't try to email me your work - how do I know it's really yours?
To cut through the sarcasm, the problem was that the default setting is to assume whatever you are putting on your computer you don't have the right to share. This is completely out of whack with how the rest of the computer works, and in fact how the majority of the world works. If my musician friend gives me a tape he says he's been working on for a while, should I not listen to it without a notarized affidavit from every musician in the world to indicate that it doesn't sound at all like what they've ever worked on?
What it comes down to is that the program should have warned him it was putting it into an unsharable format. Of course, if it always did that no one would use it - so by being the default it provides the illusion that that's the only way things can be recorded.
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
>> Why would OEMs buy something that would piss off their customers?
Because it won't. Corporate, institutional and government customers --who have every reason to worry a lot about what happens on their networks -- will love this kind of BIOS. The home market either won't care or will need it to access the boss's network from home, and the geek market is to small to care about.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
The german c't computer magazine has created a database sometime ago.
It doesn't only list CDs, there is also information about the used copy protection and how well different players/drives can handle those (UN-)CDs.
Database
I think the project was started because of the growing number of "protected" CDs especially in Germany, as the music industry is convinced to get away with it here, due to the lack of organizations like ACLU (related (german) article here).
>> And as such is a monopoly.
That's a lame and shopworn piece of bogosity.
Apple sells personal computers. The differences between a Mac and a PC are tantamount to the differences between a Ford and a Buick. I.e., minsicule. Would you argue that Ford has a monopoly on cars? Would you argue that Ford has an obligation to allow others to make and sell cars bearing the Ford logo?
Your logic would have us conclude that every company that is the sole manufacturer of a specific brand is a monopoly. That, for example, Intel has a monopoly on Intel chips, AMD on AMD chips, Hershey's chocolate on Hershey Bars, etc. That'd would be wrong. Those are brands, not monopolies. There are lots of places to buy chips and chocolate bars. Ditto personal computers.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I can download MusicMatch Jukebox for free, and it encodes to MP3.
Isn't that adware? If not, doesn't it lock up after a couple dozen encodes, forcing users to upgrade to the "Plus" version? I haven't used MusicMatch Jukebox, so I'm just parroting the restrictions that have come with some other MP3 encoding programs. And why does the documentation call 128 kbps "CD quality"?
Mac users get iTunes for free, and it encodes to MP3.
The iTunes MP3 encoder is not free(beer) but rather included in the price of Mac OS X.
There is no reason for Windows Media Player, which is also free, not to encode to MP3.
As with Apple, Microsoft could include an MP3 encoder license in the Windows XP package, but then that would increase the price it has to charge OEMs by a few U.S. dollars per copy.
MP3 is useful only for one purpose: transcoding higher-bitrate .ogg files down to a lower bitrate for use on pocket MP3 players. (Transcoding down doesn't introduce nearly as many extra artifacts as transcoding to similar bitrates.)
Will I retire or break 10K?
#insmod fakedrm -bios=AMI
This is great stuff.. I hope their DRM is rock solid, and is completely integrated into Windows XP++. Throw in ties to the MS activation server for all your software, and this would be perfect.
Keep cranking down the thumbscrews Microsoft. Treat those customers like criminals to be suspected of wrongdoing at every opportunity. Those bastards cannot be trusted with your software!
A monopoly only goes so far. Once you pass that pain threshold, in terms of cost or difficulty to use, people will go running for something else.
Who keeps giving the monkeys the mod points?
One way to implement DRM on the BIOS would be to have a public/private key. The application would ask for the public key from the BIOS and encrypt it's data with it remotely. The user gets the encrypted data and sends it to the BIOS to be unencrypted with the internal private key. The BIOS then sends the data directly to the audio or video? I'm not sure if the BIOS can send directly to audio or video.
Problems with the above approach is the OS API could simply fake the public/private key and bypass the ones used in the BIOS.
Ways for the DRM manufactures to get around the OS bypass would be to have a challenge response mechanism where the proper response is not publicly known. Of course, someone might eventually figure out the proper response.
Also audio and video don't compress well when encrypted first because encryption will remove the redundancies in the signal used for compression. Ways to solve that problem is to have a mpeg and mp3 decoder on the BIOS chip. Then the provider could compress the signal then encrypt it. The BIOS would then decrypt the signal and uncompress it.
Note: I have no idea what Pheonix is planning, these were just my thoughts on ways to implement DRM
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added.
And in other news, feedback from the record industry on putting DRM into human brains has also been favorable.
Duh!
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Theyre still a removable chip arnt they?
Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
"...I for one welcome our new entertainment industry overlords. I would like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality I could be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground CD factories."
[apologies to Matt Groening]
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
One of my older Phoenix BIOS boards had an early version of some other of their DRM technology built in. It wouldn't wouldn't allow me to install my legal, licensed copy of Windows 2000 Professional, though ironically, it was perfectly happy with my illegitimate pirated copy of Windows 2000 Server. *sigh*
That's it! No more bananas for YOU!
Please incorporate a "Phoenix BIOS DRM Support" feature in the next minor revision of the kernel. Thanks so much.
:)
P.S. Default can be "Off". Thanks again
I talked with one of Phoenix's engineers about this at LinuxWorld. This is not the end of the world, in fact it might be a useful tool. None of the engineers support the "you must go through MS to run this computer". It's just a way for the OS to know the machine hasn't been tampered with. I'll also refer you to Linus's LKML post on allowing DRM into the kernel...
*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
you and I both know that an MP3 will never be CD quality (or vinyl quality, to mix flamewars) no matter what bitrate at which it's encoded.
To me, "CD quality" means "stereo sound, with audio fidelity that meets or surpasses 16-bit linear PCM sampled at 44100 Hz." Numerous listening tests have shown that 192-256 kbps VBR MP3 is CD quality by my definition.
No, you should never convert from one lossy format to another. I encode .ogg files from my CDs
Lossless formats such as aiff, wav, flac, and CD audio are still strictly lossy formats compared to the original. They lose everything quieter than the threshold of hearing, and they lose everything above 22 kHz. But they're called "lossless" because they can be converted one to the other and back, matching bit for bit.
My rule is that I never convert from one lossy format to another unless I have a valid reason to lose fidelity. I find recoding for a pocket MP3 device a valid reason. In that environment, the audibility threshold is much higher, with more ambient noise, and I don't need stereo separation either because when out in public, I listen in mono so that stereo effects don't distract me from oncoming motor vehicles when I cross the street.
Will I retire or break 10K?
It's time to FUD this out of existence!
The main difference between cars and computers is the accessories (or software) you can buy with it. Apple software must be run on an Apple OS, which must be run on an Apple computer. No other computer company has that kind of lock on the three. Even the "Wintel empire" is composed of two companies, and is easily broken with AMD and/or Linux.
Now, the lines are slowly blurring with the software/OS layer (X support, BSD kernel, etc.), which I support, but it's still Apple hardware, which is a closed standard.
Zodiac Survey
If a BIOS, or something else, generates a unique magic number that is embedded in every file copied on a machine, and if that same BIOS running on another machine blocks transfer of any file that doesn't contain a "legal" magic number, then the industry will have effectively blocked the transfer and copying of unauthorized files from one machine to another, even over a network.
Couple this with legislation mandating use of this technology on public networks, i.e., the Internet, and things will be rather sewn up.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
So where can I get my Xecuter2 PC modchip? Does it come preinstalled with a cromwell bios or can I get a version off of IRC that runs "backups" of my Microsoft Office products?
Yes, but at what cost?
At a certain point, the costs associated with copying DRM encrypted media (e.g., time, money, effort, technical expertise, the threat of civil litigation, DMCA "enabled" criminal incarceration or fines) will become large enough that the vast majority of people will find it less costly to purchase CDs and DVDs.
You are right, it will never be technically impossible to copy DRM encrypted media. However, that is not what is required. All the media companies have to do to protect their current way of doing business is to create an enviroment -- a combination of technology (e.g., DRM) and law (e.g., DMCA) -- where the cost of copying digital media without permission is perceived as greater than the cost of purchasing said media.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
Earth to dickheads: Your main customer is supposed to be motherboard manufacturers, and then ( indirectly ) computer users. Since when is the entertainment industry a customer?
Oh wait. I suppose if you count those brown paper bags that Sony and Disney have been sending...
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general
has been very favorable," Eades added.
Since when are the RIAA and the MPAA your major customers?
WE are your major customers, and the feedback from SlashDot so far has
been "I won't be buying a MB with a Phoenix DRM BIOS".
Your CUSTOMERS don't want this.
http://jesus.everdense.com/
If you don't want to use something that wants to protect itself through drm, then don't. Big deal, so you can't pirate anymore, boo-freaking-hoo.
Does this effect virtual OS's?
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
For the average joe/jane who buys a computer from Dell, I'm all in favor of DRM if it means that he/she will be forced to operate that computer responsibly.
How would it force them to operate responsibility? "Sorry, I can't let you do that Dave"? Microsoft could implement that right now: "This program is trying to modify Windows system files. Access to these files have been denied to protect your system" They wouldn't know how to get around that anyway.
The only reason to have hardware DRM is so that you can control the OS. Anything else could be controlled *by* the OS.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Do not under estimate the power and influence of the technologist or as industry analysts like to call us "early adopters". We can kill a new product before it is even released. The content industries have always wanted to control how the consumer uses thier products. Need I mention the Divix player debacle back in the mid 90's. We were all frightened by the blatant message sent to us the consumer by the industry. We are not to be trusted with thier property, we have no property rights. But the technologists got the word out about the new product and guess what no one bought the sack of crap they were selling. Many people asked me about the divix player and I said "avoid it it will be obsolete by the end of the year". We killed the Divix player and it never even made a blip on the national level. Left on thier own the content industry will have us in shackles but for one saving grace they need our money and they don't want to piss us the technologist off to badly because we establish technology trends with our buying habbits and the advice we give others from our direct experiences. I help make technology decisions at my work and gues what I will never recomend DRM equipment. My friends, family and co-workers know I live breath and eat electronics/technology and value my opinion. Remeber Processor serial numbers? We killed em. We will do the same with DRM. So lets get the word out to everyone who trusts us and before you know it DRM will be avoided like an ex-lover with genital warts. Use the facts at hand and human's distrust of anyone or thing that directly tries to control them.
The truth suffers more from convictions than from lies.
Couldn't the Euro Union reject it and force Phoenix to sell DRMless BIOS? Just like they did with the pentium-II Machine ID.
Patola (Claudio Sampaio)
Unix System Administrator
Using matches is old-fashioned. Use just that.
Patola (Claudio Sampaio)
Unix System Administrator
I've no great feeling either way but...
:-) from making changes to things it's not suppose to.
Gets flame resistant suit on (and no I'm not intentionally trolling, but some may view it as such)
Okay for all the cons such as
Companies being able to identify who I am,
Companies being able to disable software
Requires a third party authentication server
Locking into a specific platform to view/listen to certain things.
Adds an additional layer to software and OSes.
Can we also think of the pros about DRM technologies.
It can help prevent viri (unless you have a DRM enabled virii
It can help make sure that I am who I say I am and not some cracker trying to steal my identity. (Although I'm sure it's only a matter of time before this is hacked too, but then the DMCA prevents that right 8-)
If I have something I don't want others to see (say a journal, a proprietary idea, medical records, bank records, etc), it can prevent unauthorized individuals from seeing it.
It can actually help (but not totally) prevent piracy (I know some may view this as a con, but I see this as a viable pro; although I accept that piracy does happen, there is no way of preventing it from happening. If you spent time and money producing something and distribute it as such, you should get paid for it or the service it provides)
I know much of this sounds like PR speak (I don't work for any hardware, BIOS, or OS maker), but think about it.
Eric B
ebresie@gmail.com
I can see the linuxs system growing and fast. Note spammers using windows is slow as heck. Unix/Linux fast at sending emails in bulk. Simple scripts can be used to destroy single user accounts with over a 1G of email with in very short run time(and maybe the server too). Virus writers for windows have a two contained system to test them on one called wine and the other call boch and they both run on linux and boch runs on windows as well. Boch enables you to change the bois to what ever you want.
Trace disappears in a puff of electronic smoke ie put up a wireless lan claim the you forget to lock it down use a boch or wine to create a virus get a freinds machine login to you own machine and send you now have a vapor trail. Due to the breaking and you being careless you are now the source point but totally at risk. Even better track down someone who is careless with wireless lan and use them to lanch the virus from boch or wine even some pdas will do. Basicly it is too simple to create a vapor trail and this DRM does not help in anyway to stop this.
Basicly DRM is waste of time and money. The Xbox is getting hammered DRM will be no diff.
We would be better working on a better network tracking system and server access protection system Or Free and Open Source Antivirus.
Most email viruses do large amounts of damage due to server not stoping spread of the virus. Reason for the server not stoping spread is cost. The antivirus software is need to detect them costs but the software to use the antivirus to scan email on server is free. Basicly if the server responed blocking spread the live span of a active spreading email virus should be 24 hours. Due to the servers knowing who has the virus by whos being blocked clean up comes simple due to a full list of infected users. Due to no more spread it is just start at the top of the list and work down cleaning them up. Now the virus is gone forever because if it comes back it will be detected and removed again.
Catching the hacker should be a second thought. It is bit like puting a street graffiti writer in jail and not removing his work from the walls.
Note Open Antivirus project helps but it is not complete. I cannot see where the goverments of the world could not join forces to built a united antivirus to increase world wide network secruity. Note this does not have to compete in the home system it could be locked to servers only.
Basicly the unpleasant people don't care about laws or rules so there is nothing to stop them entering the best we can do is make the work harder due to there creations not lasting as long.
Seems to me that the way to fight this is to point out (loudly, repeatedly) to business and government customers of PCs that this is SPYWARE being built into the computer itself.
Raise the spectre of their proprietary information being dumped onto the internet, or sucked out through a wireless lan tap. And their systems being cracked and subverted.
And of this happening EVEN IF they've switched to an OS that has been audited and doesn't have ANYTHING to allow it - because it's happening at the firmware layer UNDER the OS.
Then tie "breach of fiduciary duty" to any financial loss their company might suffer as a result of their choice to buy a PC with DRM in the BIOS.
That ought to turn a few executive faces pale.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
(score:-4 - off topic)t .html /. that
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/patrio
Anybody rememebr Pheonix's plan to have their BIOSes connect tothe net to check for updates? Or special offers from the board's manufacturer?
You think they'd remember what a failure that was....
Now I have to make sure my new computers don't have a Phoenix bios. Who wants a crippled computer?
Hey, won't this in theory make it easier to have fully 3D GUI's and finally get past this icon and menu crap? Just think of the possibilities with this! YAAAHOOOO! Maybe we can... ummm... oh, you meand Digital Rights Management...
Umm, no I'm OK... I didn't want your stupid BIOS ability anyway! Probably wouldn't work with ATI without days of tweaking anyhow. *pout*
...the world being divided into the hardware camp (that wants to see all sorts of sharing and other technologies exploited to drive sales of high perf goodies - which Intel belongs to) and the software camp (that has electronically reproducable assets like software/music/video which want hardware assistance via DRM - eg Microsoft, Disney etc.)
Virtually all firms fall into one of these two camps - except perhaps, poor schitzophrenic Sony that has one leg in both camps...
Phoenix/AMI would normally fall into the hardware camp, except when you realize that their value-add is highly driven by features the operating system exploits, so pandering to Microsoft's desires makes some sense for them.
i have the right to remain pirate anything you or i have can and will be copiedalright, shared with my bros should you block this right you will be removed by force..my kind will not be stopped we are the cheapest of the cheap investing in the best hardware for the best hacks (talk to direcTV about how well their smarts cards drm has been going)