all i do is open up aptitude, go to the program(s) i want to install and type +, then it gets them all. Debian GNU/Linux... or if i am feeling especially command line hungry, i could just type `apt-get install program`.
a standard way to install packages. and it keeps them up to date as well! beat that with your setup.exe (which isn't always there, nor is it even faguely standardised when it is). oh, and no reboot.
really? when was the last time you went to a contemporary art gallery? (bearing in mind that "modern art" had already finished by the 60s) the kind of art that has been made in the last year, kinda stuff.
it might once have been about that, and it would even sort a lot of things out in my mind if it at least had the rationality of having "emotion" or "thought" behind it... but nowadays, a large majority of artists do things simply for the point of it being "aesthetic" (and they somehow seem to have twisted that meaning as well).
artists have flown up their own arse and cannot decide whether they want to remain elite or be publically appealing. in fact, i know several who contradict themselves constantly about that single point. there is NO thought behind todays art. i personally stopped all interest about 2 years ago, and i had approahced it with a very open mind. try dating an "artist" and see how long you go without hatign the damn lifestyle.
they are all a bunch of sex-crazed weirdos who had too much money behind them to work in a checkout job when they left school, but weren't smart enough to go onto higher education.
i could rant about how much i hate the damn world of art all day, so i'll do you all a favour and stop here.:-)
The XHTML standard says that XHTML elements and attributes must be in lowercase; it says nothing about how you should code your HTML
but since XHTML is the superset of HTML, then does it not have technical merit to aim for as much XHTML compliance as possible? especially if doing something as trivial as lowercase tags helps that greatly.
but thats against the XHTML standards! it doesn't matter what you prefer on screen.. if it has technical merit to do it lowercase, then please for the love of all that is sacred, please do it lowercase!
Australia and New Zealand have adopted "plastic" notes for a while
and so has Northern Ireland (some colaboration with the NZ and ozzies someone told me)... and as always... its a pain in the arse trying to get the english to believe it is pounds sterling. the irish punt does not exist anymore, people... they have the euro now!
you submit the bug fix to them and wait for them to incorporate...
with what, a 6 month release cycle, then wait for the blackdown/other release?
with debian, as soon as the maintainer accepts the patch, it will go to the build farms and unstable will get the new package in a matter of hours.
but my main issue with SUN java is not the bug reporting... since i have never found a bug, nor would i be competent enough with the source to fix one anyway. my problem is with their license. i'd very much like to see a free , 100% compliant implementaion of java. GCC are miles away from that. so unless everyone is prepared to wait for the GCC version to mature (probably take as long as the HURD), then SUN "open sourcing" is the only hope.
yes, but that assumes you already run your own build of java, which will not be supported, even minimally, by anyone but yourself.
Yes, of course -- how else can you find and fix a bug in the source code? As is the case with all changes to all products -- open source or not.
come on now... its totally different. if i find a bug in a debian package, i can look at the source, edit it, rebuild the package and submit a patch when i am happy that it is fixed (or if i am lazy... just report the bug and let themaintainer do it). the binary will be rebuild using the same ocnditions as the old one... with java, once you start using your own builds, you are no longer using a supported package and your own build environment may even bring in additional bugs.
BSD's is, of course, the most open, but you prefer GNU for some reason
yes, and yes. BSD is the most "open" as it places less restrictions on derivative works. i do indeed prefer the GNU way of thinking... it is more "free" (ooooh, i can feel the blood rushing..). personally i find it scary to think that if i license my work under a BSD license, somebody could take all my hard work and place it in a commercial product which does not have the same freedoms as my own code/work. this does not bother some people and i have no problems when somebody else uses theBSD license. it is a free license, i just don't think it respects the work of the authors as much. when i am not the author it doesn't effect me:-)
Such decisions -- to support or not -- are based on political
absolutely, thats why i said "unofficially support"... i honestly don't know of anything i own which is "officially" supported in any way... that just implies that you are paying someone a lot of money to fix it when it breaks, and who you can legally blame if all goes wrong. "unofficial support" has always been good enough for me.
the source is freely (as in beer) available
i swear to god, RMS must have been snorting someting mad when he came up with that phrase... what free beer??? if there were free beer in this world... i wouldn't be sat in front (well, maybe not sober) of a computer right now!!:-D
No one can distribute the modified sources, which is irrelevant, since the originals are always available from the Sun itself, and the modifications can be distributed separately.
why do you say it is irrelevant? i think an open source project should not impose such conditions... and if SUN "open source" java i hope they are not the single source of downloads. i would welcome any of the free software licenses... even a BSD style one. basically, if it meets debian's idea of free, it good enough for me... becuase i tend to think they are a little too strict! (they nearly moved emacs to non-free because stallman placed non-editable licenses on several of his essays distributed with the code)
To distribute binaries one needs to pay Sun (usually) and undergo extensive compatibility tests (which I can only welcome)
i find myself in a battle of philosophy and common sense on this one... obviously i want the stability... but i also agree with the free software model. in my mind the only way to resolve this would be for SUN to release their test suite to the community (which may then add additional tests) and that way anyone could check their build... SUN need not even place any form of "seal of approval" on anyone's built but their own.
Shut up and code!!!
yeah yeah... but its hard to work when slashdot has a story which is like a poor april fools joke:-)
i really do hope SUN "open source" java (as free software)... but i hope GNU and others do not add extra stuff onto the standard library. i also hope that an accompanying test suite is released in conjunction.
Since they recently (after years of the jdk-ports' existance) officially certified the "Diablo" binary distribution (JDK13 and JRE13 for FreeBSD)
FreeBSD may actually be working around the multiple-java-implementations problem by requiring you download the java source yousrelf and placing it in/usr/ports/java or wherever. since they would not be "distributing" java, but simply a means to build it from source... they would probably be in the clear.
it is however against the license for someone like redhat/madrake/debian to provide binaries of various java implementations alongside SUN's in a distribution
You are welcome to fix it and rebuild. You are also welcome to post the fix (but not the rebuilt binary) anywhere you want.
yes, but that assumes you already run your own build of java, which will not be supported, even minimally, by anyone but yourself. and it requires all your changes are released under the SUN license. if it were released as free software... then someone may be willing to at least "unofficially" support it. such as debian, who "unofficially" support everything on their servers at the moment. the new payed-for redhat will even have to offically support it, as would userlinux (if it ever appears).
This is not about the blame. Sun simply does not want Java to fork into multiple javas, as happened to C, C++ (#ifdef _BORLAND...#elif __GNUC__) and other languagues. I tend to agree...
so does everyone... especially when it comes to java. REAL multi-platform ability (with GUIs and everything!) is one of its main strengths. i really hope GNU people (and others) do not make their own extensions part of the standard library, like they did with c/c++. if only all the GNU extensions in glibc were actually defined in files like "gstdlib.h" or "gstrings.h";-) and linked against a libgnuc then life would be so much easier when porting code originally written on a GNU system. i think that is about my only gripe with the base GNU system.
Sun Microsystems, Inc. ("Sun") hereby grants you a fully-paid, non-exclusive, non-transferable, worldwide, limited license (without the right to sublicense), under the Sun's applicable intellectual property rights to view, download, use and reproduce the Specification only for the purpose of internal evaluation, which shall be understood to include developing applications intended to run on an implementation of the Specification provided that
such applications do not themselves implement any portion(s) of the Specification.
B (iii)
you do not distribute
additional software intended to replace any component(s) of the Software
then FreeBSD are in violation of the license. (incidently i find it funny that they refer to themselves as "the Sun" at one stage)
And GNU is quite prone to introducing its own "embrace-and-extensions", viz. gcc, gawk, etc.
hmm, yeah... i agree i wish to god they had required you pass a flag such as --enable-gnu-extensions to each of those programs... and required a preprocessor flag to be enabled before any gnulibc extensions could be enabled. the other day i used iswhitespace() and was shocked when it did not compile on a SUN machine. i had to write my own implementation of the function (custom made of course), but it was lucky i had a POSIX machine to test it out on!
we can hardly blame them though... GNU never claimed to maintain backwards compatibility... since day one they only ever wanted upwards compatibility (so, old code should still compile). it sucks though that they haven't made it more obvious when using their non-portable extensions.
making it "free" (as in freedom) and GPL compatible would be a tremendous step
It would be -- from the political point of view. Technically -- I don't care.
you should... if it were free, then all major distros (of gnu/linux and more...) would be able to ship their own versions and keep it up to date with regular bug fixes. what do you do now if you find a bug in your sdk? nothing... noone to report it to, and noone to listen if even you do find somewhere. and even then... you'd have to wait a year maybe more for a new release and hope they fixed it. (if you found a bug in the jre... since everyong would be in the same buggy version, you'd probably be best off working around the bug, but still reporting it)
further than all that... even the binary license is strict; if you distribute the SUN java in your OS distro... then you are not allowed to distribute ANY other replacement, i.e. gcj. thats pretty much why debian don't even have it in non-free and you have to add unofficial mirrors in your download lists
"open sourcing" java doesn't really excite me too much... but, along the same lines as what you are saying, making it "free" (as in freedom) and GPL compatible would be a tremendous step, and i might actually start to learn some java! open sourcing somethign does not necessarily imply th freedoms that we are used to in the GNU and BSD worlds, despite all of those applications falling undert the open source umbrella (i consider open source tp be the supersets of all licenses which allow you to see the source code... but do not necessarily grant you the freedom to use it).
aha! i just knew this book would come in handy one day! (The author is the late Georges Perec, who in 1969 took up the challenge of producing an entire novel without once using the letter "e." and was translated into english by Gilbert Adair, also without using an "e")
4-6 were cool because they were grounded in reality
"riiiight l810c..." (reaching for phone to the men in white coats) "and what was that you were saying about the potato men coming to get you when the clouds rose?" (hurry up!!!)
you sir, are an arsehole... and you should worry about the problems of your own country and not stick your nose into others. i speak for everyone from northern ireland when i say this.
no it f***ing well isn't! how many times must i point out that Northern Ireland is part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"; Great Britain being the island containing England, Wales and Scotland. however... politically, its citizens (me included) are British; this naming being a remnant of the "British Empire".
Slashdot Mirror
but, lets face it, regardless she is from the USA, and she has an english accent. and shes hot.
Gates McFadden, irish? news to me... i thought she was from scottish heritage. but hey... bring her back; she does rock!
so, is there a list somewhere where we can see each member's vote on the matter?
a standard way to install packages. and it keeps them up to date as well! beat that with your setup.exe (which isn't always there, nor is it even faguely standardised when it is). oh, and no reboot.
really? when was the last time you went to a contemporary art gallery? (bearing in mind that "modern art" had already finished by the 60s) the kind of art that has been made in the last year, kinda stuff.
it might once have been about that, and it would even sort a lot of things out in my mind if it at least had the rationality of having "emotion" or "thought" behind it... but nowadays, a large majority of artists do things simply for the point of it being "aesthetic" (and they somehow seem to have twisted that meaning as well).
artists have flown up their own arse and cannot decide whether they want to remain elite or be publically appealing. in fact, i know several who contradict themselves constantly about that single point. there is NO thought behind todays art. i personally stopped all interest about 2 years ago, and i had approahced it with a very open mind. try dating an "artist" and see how long you go without hatign the damn lifestyle.
they are all a bunch of sex-crazed weirdos who had too much money behind them to work in a checkout job when they left school, but weren't smart enough to go onto higher education.
i could rant about how much i hate the damn world of art all day, so i'll do you all a favour and stop here. :-)
you think we don't try that? these are English people we are talking about!
but since XHTML is the superset of HTML, then does it not have technical merit to aim for as much XHTML compliance as possible? especially if doing something as trivial as lowercase tags helps that greatly.
but thats against the XHTML standards! it doesn't matter what you prefer on screen.. if it has technical merit to do it lowercase, then please for the love of all that is sacred, please do it lowercase!
and so has Northern Ireland (some colaboration with the NZ and ozzies someone told me)... and as always... its a pain in the arse trying to get the english to believe it is pounds sterling. the irish punt does not exist anymore, people... they have the euro now!
with what, a 6 month release cycle, then wait for the blackdown/other release?
with debian, as soon as the maintainer accepts the patch, it will go to the build farms and unstable will get the new package in a matter of hours.
but my main issue with SUN java is not the bug reporting... since i have never found a bug, nor would i be competent enough with the source to fix one anyway. my problem is with their license. i'd very much like to see a free , 100% compliant implementaion of java. GCC are miles away from that. so unless everyone is prepared to wait for the GCC version to mature (probably take as long as the HURD), then SUN "open sourcing" is the only hope.
Yes, of course -- how else can you find and fix a bug in the source code? As is the case with all changes to all products -- open source or not.
come on now... its totally different. if i find a bug in a debian package, i can look at the source, edit it, rebuild the package and submit a patch when i am happy that it is fixed (or if i am lazy... just report the bug and let themaintainer do it). the binary will be rebuild using the same ocnditions as the old one... with java, once you start using your own builds, you are no longer using a supported package and your own build environment may even bring in additional bugs.
BSD's is, of course, the most open, but you prefer GNU for some reason
yes, and yes. BSD is the most "open" as it places less restrictions on derivative works. i do indeed prefer the GNU way of thinking... it is more "free" (ooooh, i can feel the blood rushing..). personally i find it scary to think that if i license my work under a BSD license, somebody could take all my hard work and place it in a commercial product which does not have the same freedoms as my own code/work. this does not bother some people and i have no problems when somebody else uses theBSD license. it is a free license, i just don't think it respects the work of the authors as much. when i am not the author it doesn't effect me :-)
Such decisions -- to support or not -- are based on political
absolutely, thats why i said "unofficially support"... i honestly don't know of anything i own which is "officially" supported in any way... that just implies that you are paying someone a lot of money to fix it when it breaks, and who you can legally blame if all goes wrong. "unofficial support" has always been good enough for me.
the source is freely (as in beer) available
i swear to god, RMS must have been snorting someting mad when he came up with that phrase... what free beer??? if there were free beer in this world... i wouldn't be sat in front (well, maybe not sober) of a computer right now!! :-D
No one can distribute the modified sources, which is irrelevant, since the originals are always available from the Sun itself, and the modifications can be distributed separately.
why do you say it is irrelevant? i think an open source project should not impose such conditions... and if SUN "open source" java i hope they are not the single source of downloads. i would welcome any of the free software licenses... even a BSD style one. basically, if it meets debian's idea of free, it good enough for me... becuase i tend to think they are a little too strict! (they nearly moved emacs to non-free because stallman placed non-editable licenses on several of his essays distributed with the code)
To distribute binaries one needs to pay Sun (usually) and undergo extensive compatibility tests (which I can only welcome)
i find myself in a battle of philosophy and common sense on this one... obviously i want the stability... but i also agree with the free software model. in my mind the only way to resolve this would be for SUN to release their test suite to the community (which may then add additional tests) and that way anyone could check their build... SUN need not even place any form of "seal of approval" on anyone's built but their own.
Shut up and code!!!
yeah yeah... but its hard to work when slashdot has a story which is like a poor april fools joke :-)
i really do hope SUN "open source" java (as free software)... but i hope GNU and others do not add extra stuff onto the standard library. i also hope that an accompanying test suite is released in conjunction.
FreeBSD may actually be working around the multiple-java-implementations problem by requiring you download the java source yousrelf and placing it in /usr/ports/java or wherever. since they would not be "distributing" java, but simply a means to build it from source... they would probably be in the clear.
it is however against the license for someone like redhat/madrake/debian to provide binaries of various java implementations alongside SUN's in a distribution
You are welcome to fix it and rebuild. You are also welcome to post the fix (but not the rebuilt binary) anywhere you want.
yes, but that assumes you already run your own build of java, which will not be supported, even minimally, by anyone but yourself. and it requires all your changes are released under the SUN license. if it were released as free software... then someone may be willing to at least "unofficially" support it. such as debian, who "unofficially" support everything on their servers at the moment. the new payed-for redhat will even have to offically support it, as would userlinux (if it ever appears).
This is not about the blame. Sun simply does not want Java to fork into multiple javas, as happened to C, C++ (#ifdef _BORLAND...#elif __GNUC__) and other languagues. I tend to agree...
so does everyone... especially when it comes to java. REAL multi-platform ability (with GUIs and everything!) is one of its main strengths. i really hope GNU people (and others) do not make their own extensions part of the standard library, like they did with c/c++. if only all the GNU extensions in glibc were actually defined in files like "gstdlib.h" or "gstrings.h" ;-) and linked against a libgnuc then life would be so much easier when porting code originally written on a GNU system. i think that is about my only gripe with the base GNU system.
Not sure, what you mean
from the specification license:
and the sdk license:
then FreeBSD are in violation of the license. (incidently i find it funny that they refer to themselves as "the Sun" at one stage)
And GNU is quite prone to introducing its own "embrace-and-extensions", viz. gcc, gawk, etc.
hmm, yeah... i agree i wish to god they had required you pass a flag such as --enable-gnu-extensions to each of those programs... and required a preprocessor flag to be enabled before any gnulibc extensions could be enabled. the other day i used iswhitespace() and was shocked when it did not compile on a SUN machine. i had to write my own implementation of the function (custom made of course), but it was lucky i had a POSIX machine to test it out on!
we can hardly blame them though... GNU never claimed to maintain backwards compatibility... since day one they only ever wanted upwards compatibility (so, old code should still compile). it sucks though that they haven't made it more obvious when using their non-portable extensions.
It would be -- from the political point of view. Technically -- I don't care.
you should... if it were free, then all major distros (of gnu/linux and more...) would be able to ship their own versions and keep it up to date with regular bug fixes. what do you do now if you find a bug in your sdk? nothing... noone to report it to, and noone to listen if even you do find somewhere. and even then... you'd have to wait a year maybe more for a new release and hope they fixed it. (if you found a bug in the jre... since everyong would be in the same buggy version, you'd probably be best off working around the bug, but still reporting it)
"open sourcing" java doesn't really excite me too much... but, along the same lines as what you are saying, making it "free" (as in freedom) and GPL compatible would be a tremendous step, and i might actually start to learn some java! open sourcing somethign does not necessarily imply th freedoms that we are used to in the GNU and BSD worlds, despite all of those applications falling undert the open source umbrella (i consider open source tp be the supersets of all licenses which allow you to see the source code... but do not necessarily grant you the freedom to use it).
aha! a smiley!!!! you lose again
with slashdot spolling, ivurything is possibal
aha! i just knew this book would come in handy one day! (The author is the late Georges Perec, who in 1969 took up the challenge of producing an entire novel without once using the letter "e." and was translated into english by Gilbert Adair, also without using an "e")
oh wait! NOOOoooooooo!
Whoa... its a snaaaake, its a snake....
well, of course they do! linux is just the kernel, not the entire operating system.
if they claimed they had more programmers than all those doing free software, then i'd question them.
and for downloading mozilla... you insensitive clod!
+1 interesting? come on moderators... this is a blatent troll!
"riiiight l810c..."
(reaching for phone to the men in white coats)
"and what was that you were saying about the potato men coming to get you when the clouds rose?"
(hurry up!!!)
you sir, are an arsehole... and you should worry about the problems of your own country and not stick your nose into others. i speak for everyone from northern ireland when i say this.
no it f***ing well isn't! how many times must i point out that Northern Ireland is part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"; Great Britain being the island containing England, Wales and Scotland. however... politically, its citizens (me included) are British; this naming being a remnant of the "British Empire".