Playing the same game? I was thinking _exactly_ the same!
Jeez, the grind start with the first quests you do: kill 5 wolves, kill 10 workers, kill 15 miners, it just goes on and on.
Make somebody who is not normally into gaming try it, I've had several people say things like "wow! it looks gorgeous. Ok, I killed this wolf, so now what I do? What? 4 more? Ok, no problem. 4 more, that was easy. Ok, run back to that guy. Np. New quest. 10 workers? Really? Same thing, different mob? Hmmm, ok. (10 mobs later) sooo... I run back to this guy again and now I need to kill yet another 15 of those rat-guys? Hmmm.... soooo....why am I actually doing this?" - "Well because it's fun!" - "Uhuh. Ok, shall we go for some beers now or are you staying here behind the computer again?"
Uhm, well _I_ did. Not that I've stopped paying (yet) but that's because I want to try a few more classes just to get a "feel" for them. But I absolutely hate doing raid dungeons let's say more than 3 times. After that it becomes completely boring and seems to be a complete waste of time.
Somehow my girlfriend actualy _likes_ to spend hours each night doing the same instance over and over and over, but I think it's the social aspect that makes it interesting for her.
I've invested a large amount of playtime in WoW but it could have been much more if the raids were more interesting, less tedious and more rewarding. I don't need this über-specced lvl 60 character, but to not have gotten one single epic item in all the time I've played is frustrating in itself:-)
And if I could just have continued discovering more areas and been doing more quests and such I probably wouldn't have minded about those epic items, but after you get to lvl 60 what else is there left to do?
So, IMO Blizzard _is_ doing something wrong, because they will definitely lose me as a paying customer in the very near future even though this has been one of the most enjoyable games I've played.
What you need to understand is that voting for either of republicans or the democrats is the REAL waste of a vote.
Haha, you're right of course!
And by voting for either major party NOW, they guarantee that there will be no significant changes EVER.
True, but you have to admit that if thinking 40 or even 10 years in the future is almost impossible for politicians most people uninterested will not want to wait that long especially if there is no guarantee it will ever work (that's no reason not to try of course, but it will make people feel they're not making any difference).
What the heck does debugging have to do with bad programming??
The only difference between you and me (just guessing here of course) is that you spend your time putting in loads of "print" statements to figure out where things go wrong while I fire up a debugger and spend my time stepping through code.
Both of us will lose time that way and I'm not going to try to figure out who can do it quicker but I do know I positively hate having to go through code that is full of commented "debug" statements. Give me a debugger any day and I'm happy. That's just the way I code and I don't see how using a debugger would somehow make you forget about code design and patterns and whatever more.
Tried it once and it's an incredibly difficult language to learn even if the written language is phonetic which is probably also the only easy thing about Finnish;-)
No flames please dear Finnish people, nothing against you nor you language, just my personal frustration with being unable to learn:-)
I agree, but it must be a moderately multi-party system, not the mess that Italy is in for example. 2 coalitions, one of 10 parties and one of 16! How they hell do they ever get anything done?:-)
I'm sorry, but 1% or 1.2% is not going to make a dent in the conviction of the larger parties. As long as you don't get up to double digits you ARE throwing your vote away. But I don't see anyone waiting 40 years to get there!! (By your example, 1% the first year, 3% the third, except that elections are only once every 4 years, so it would take 40 years to get up to at least 10%, I know nobody who is willing to wait that long when things need to change NOW)
Exactly, I thought the message was quite alright until I got to that line. Weird how open-sourcing stuff seems to have all kinds off magical side-effects.
What kind of "instability" are you talking about? For me instability means kernel oopses or applications that crash inexplicably and I have never seen that on any of my Redhat and Fedora systems since I started using RedHat 8 on a multitude of systems (which includes things from desktop systms and "pizza boxes" to PVR systems on mini-ITX using alpha quality kernel modules).
Does that mean I have never had problems? Sure, and lots of them, but nothing that could aver be attributed to general and overall "system instability". I wonder why your experience is so different?
And while a whole lot of fun I can hardly play for hours on end day in day out like I can with WoW or its like. (Or if you tried you'd probably end up with a lot bigger problem than you'd have with a WoW addiction;-)
What exactly are those things that last longer? I can't seem to think of anything. I'm not a famous writer/artist whose works will outlive me, I'm not an active environmentalist fighting for the conservation of our planet nor one of those rare politicians who wants to improve the world. So I doubt I will have influence on anybody besides the group of people close to me and even with them I wonder if the fact that I exist has any great and lasting effect on them.
On the other hand lot's of people find real pleasure in small things that only last a short while, like watching the sun set or the smile on somebody's face when you are nice to them.
So personally I just try to be happy because I like being happy and if I can somehow make the people around me happy as well I'll sure try and do my best and for the rest of the time I just not try to do anything that might make them miserable. It's that simple, I'm not aming for anything more.
In that aspect MMORPGs are no different and are in fact very social games and I can understand very well why people like them so much. Those are real people they are playing with, real people that are just as glad when you help them do a difficult quest or give them a good item that you don't need (anymore).
Most of the time when they get to know eachother they will tell stories about their lifes making them even more real. (And yes there are many stories that sound exactly like "escapism").
But in the end you must ask yourself if it is really so bad? I agree that people who want or need help should get it, but what about those people that don't want to be helped, those people that if you take away the game won't suddenly convert in happy extroverts who will have lots of friends and go out all the time etc etc?
And I'd say stop pretending it is anything different. Yeah theoretically you have more than 2 parties, but be honest, how much chance do any of the others have? Yes it COULD happen but as long as you can't get a really large group of people to vote for a 3rd (or a 4th, a 5th) party nothing will change and in such a case, yes you could just as well vote for one of the 2 largest parties that you find the least repulsive.
In a "real" multi-party system (like here in The Netherlands for example) voting for a smaller party does have real consequences (not always of course), but it basically works because there never is a mayority government and they have to form coalitions to be able to govern (not saying this is any better than what you have, just explaining a difference). Needing these coalitions means that sometimes slight changes in the amount of votes for a party suddenly result in big changes in government.
And it is people like us who will make sure that ATI and nVidia will never change their ways, why should they? People still keep buying their stuff even if they have to jump through hoops to install the drivers.
Now, truth be told, I said "us" because I use the proprietary drivers as well and I am happy they exist but I also agree that ATI and nVidia must be pushed as hard as possible to open up more and Fedora/Redhat/Debian (and probably others) can't do that if they tell people "you shouldn't use those drivers, but this is how you install them".
Well it would have to be able to read minds because there are things that would arouse one person and not another and vise versa.
I think Rubens is positively erotic;-)
Oh sure.... private enterprises are sooo well known for being well-behaved and doing what is good for us and the whole of mankind. Down with government! Who needs them anyways?
Well actually the heliocentric system still relied on epicycles and in fact needed many more of them to explain the non-circular orbits observed in real life. It was seen though as being more "perfect" because of the use of circular motions, something Galileo didn't like about Kepler's model that used "imperfect" elipses.
But my response was more because of the GP's statement that at first the new models made by Galileo and Kepler where slightly worse than the existing models that scientists had spend years perfecting to adjust it to their observations. I can understand that, so that's why I gave the example of Venus that the old model could not explain at all.
It's you who are confusing things, first of all by somehow equating civilizations that are not looking for war with peace-loving, besides the fact that I sense a certain "patronizing" quality in your reply (at least it's OT) when you use the word peace-loving, as if there would be something inherently wrong with it. Probably a reflection of your inner self that makes you unable to accept anything but that fable that war is progress. I tell you, it is not (though I'm not saying it never is). Unless you in the Bush camp and think the US are really doing a world of good in Irak there are numerous examples in very recent history where war has left nothing but death and destruction and where years later people are still struggeling to survive and trying to build up something resembling a normal live, now show me progress in that.
Thanks for the references on the flat earth and the dark ages, they sure "enlightened" me:-)
But I'm not sure if I can agree with you on Kepler. First of all his explanation of the orbits of the planets was much simpler than existing theories, but given that Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor) might not have been very convincing to them yet it might be better to point out that Kepler was the first to be able to explain the orbit of other stellar bodies (like Venus), so it seems his theory was arguably better than the ones of his contemporaries.
I beg your pardon? If you would have said that Chistians seem to get more of their values/ideas from the NT than the OT okay, but you make it sound is if they could just as well tear out that part of the bible and throw it out the window! That's just silly.
Slashdot Mirror
Jeez, there should be a Godwin's Law for the word "evil" being used in postings.
Playing the same game? I was thinking _exactly_ the same!
:-)
Jeez, the grind start with the first quests you do: kill 5 wolves, kill 10 workers, kill 15 miners, it just goes on and on.
Make somebody who is not normally into gaming try it, I've had several people say things like "wow! it looks gorgeous. Ok, I killed this wolf, so now what I do? What? 4 more? Ok, no problem. 4 more, that was easy. Ok, run back to that guy. Np. New quest. 10 workers? Really? Same thing, different mob? Hmmm, ok. (10 mobs later) sooo... I run back to this guy again and now I need to kill yet another 15 of those rat-guys? Hmmm.... soooo....why am I actually doing this?" - "Well because it's fun!" - "Uhuh. Ok, shall we go for some beers now or are you staying here behind the computer again?"
Well, at least something like that
Uhm, well _I_ did. Not that I've stopped paying (yet) but that's because I want to try a few more classes just to get a "feel" for them. But I absolutely hate doing raid dungeons let's say more than 3 times. After that it becomes completely boring and seems to be a complete waste of time.
:-)
Somehow my girlfriend actualy _likes_ to spend hours each night doing the same instance over and over and over, but I think it's the social aspect that makes it interesting for her.
I've invested a large amount of playtime in WoW but it could have been much more if the raids were more interesting, less tedious and more rewarding. I don't need this über-specced lvl 60 character, but to not have gotten one single epic item in all the time I've played is frustrating in itself
And if I could just have continued discovering more areas and been doing more quests and such I probably wouldn't have minded about those epic items, but after you get to lvl 60 what else is there left to do?
So, IMO Blizzard _is_ doing something wrong, because they will definitely lose me as a paying customer in the very near future even though this has been one of the most enjoyable games I've played.
What you need to understand is that voting for either of republicans or the democrats is the REAL waste of a vote.
Haha, you're right of course!
And by voting for either major party NOW, they guarantee that there will be no significant changes EVER.
True, but you have to admit that if thinking 40 or even 10 years in the future is almost impossible for politicians most people uninterested will not want to wait that long especially if there is no guarantee it will ever work (that's no reason not to try of course, but it will make people feel they're not making any difference).
What the heck does debugging have to do with bad programming?? The only difference between you and me (just guessing here of course) is that you spend your time putting in loads of "print" statements to figure out where things go wrong while I fire up a debugger and spend my time stepping through code. Both of us will lose time that way and I'm not going to try to figure out who can do it quicker but I do know I positively hate having to go through code that is full of commented "debug" statements. Give me a debugger any day and I'm happy. That's just the way I code and I don't see how using a debugger would somehow make you forget about code design and patterns and whatever more.
Tried it once and it's an incredibly difficult language to learn even if the written language is phonetic which is probably also the only easy thing about Finnish ;-)
No flames please dear Finnish people, nothing against you nor you language, just my personal frustration with being unable to learn :-)
I agree, but it must be a moderately multi-party system, not the mess that Italy is in for example. 2 coalitions, one of 10 parties and one of 16! How they hell do they ever get anything done? :-)
The Khmer Rouge tried that and it didn't work for them either.
I'm sorry, but 1% or 1.2% is not going to make a dent in the conviction of the larger parties. As long as you don't get up to double digits you ARE throwing your vote away. But I don't see anyone waiting 40 years to get there!! (By your example, 1% the first year, 3% the third, except that elections are only once every 4 years, so it would take 40 years to get up to at least 10%, I know nobody who is willing to wait that long when things need to change NOW)
Uhm no, not really, I just want to read about, not actually DO it! Reading about might be fun, doing it would be boring in the extreme. ;-)
Prostitutes force people to fund projects like libraries and schools? Wow, you learn something new on slashdot every day.
Exactly, I thought the message was quite alright until I got to that line. Weird how open-sourcing stuff seems to have all kinds off magical side-effects.
What kind of "instability" are you talking about? For me instability means kernel oopses or applications that crash inexplicably and I have never seen that on any of my Redhat and Fedora systems since I started using RedHat 8 on a multitude of systems (which includes things from desktop systms and "pizza boxes" to PVR systems on mini-ITX using alpha quality kernel modules).
Does that mean I have never had problems? Sure, and lots of them, but nothing that could aver be attributed to general and overall "system instability". I wonder why your experience is so different?
Ha, like someone famous said "sex is overrated".
;-)
And while a whole lot of fun I can hardly play for hours on end day in day out like I can with WoW or its like. (Or if you tried you'd probably end up with a lot bigger problem than you'd have with a WoW addiction
What exactly are those things that last longer? I can't seem to think of anything. I'm not a famous writer/artist whose works will outlive me, I'm not an active environmentalist fighting for the conservation of our planet nor one of those rare politicians who wants to improve the world. So I doubt I will have influence on anybody besides the group of people close to me and even with them I wonder if the fact that I exist has any great and lasting effect on them.
On the other hand lot's of people find real pleasure in small things that only last a short while, like watching the sun set or the smile on somebody's face when you are nice to them.
So personally I just try to be happy because I like being happy and if I can somehow make the people around me happy as well I'll sure try and do my best and for the rest of the time I just not try to do anything that might make them miserable. It's that simple, I'm not aming for anything more.
In that aspect MMORPGs are no different and are in fact very social games and I can understand very well why people like them so much. Those are real people they are playing with, real people that are just as glad when you help them do a difficult quest or give them a good item that you don't need (anymore).
Most of the time when they get to know eachother they will tell stories about their lifes making them even more real. (And yes there are many stories that sound exactly like "escapism").
But in the end you must ask yourself if it is really so bad? I agree that people who want or need help should get it, but what about those people that don't want to be helped, those people that if you take away the game won't suddenly convert in happy extroverts who will have lots of friends and go out all the time etc etc?
MMORPGs are still very much a social activity.
And I'd say stop pretending it is anything different. Yeah theoretically you have more than 2 parties, but be honest, how much chance do any of the others have? Yes it COULD happen but as long as you can't get a really large group of people to vote for a 3rd (or a 4th, a 5th) party nothing will change and in such a case, yes you could just as well vote for one of the 2 largest parties that you find the least repulsive.
In a "real" multi-party system (like here in The Netherlands for example) voting for a smaller party does have real consequences (not always of course), but it basically works because there never is a mayority government and they have to form coalitions to be able to govern (not saying this is any better than what you have, just explaining a difference). Needing these coalitions means that sometimes slight changes in the amount of votes for a party suddenly result in big changes in government.
Hahahaha! Oh yeah, you're right *we* are the ones with the inferiority complex *chortle*
And it is people like us who will make sure that ATI and nVidia will never change their ways, why should they? People still keep buying their stuff even if they have to jump through hoops to install the drivers.
;-)
Now, truth be told, I said "us" because I use the proprietary drivers as well and I am happy they exist but I also agree that ATI and nVidia must be pushed as hard as possible to open up more and Fedora/Redhat/Debian (and probably others) can't do that if they tell people "you shouldn't use those drivers, but this is how you install them".
You make a decision and you stick by it.
I have decided I _need_ my daily FPS-fix
Well it would have to be able to read minds because there are things that would arouse one person and not another and vise versa. I think Rubens is positively erotic ;-)
Oh sure.... private enterprises are sooo well known for being well-behaved and doing what is good for us and the whole of mankind. Down with government! Who needs them anyways?
You must be American
Wish I could have been at that party! :-)
Well actually the heliocentric system still relied on epicycles and in fact needed many more of them to explain the non-circular orbits observed in real life. It was seen though as being more "perfect" because of the use of circular motions, something Galileo didn't like about Kepler's model that used "imperfect" elipses.
But my response was more because of the GP's statement that at first the new models made by Galileo and Kepler where slightly worse than the existing models that scientists had spend years perfecting to adjust it to their observations. I can understand that, so that's why I gave the example of Venus that the old model could not explain at all.
It's you who are confusing things, first of all by somehow equating civilizations that are not looking for war with peace-loving, besides the fact that I sense a certain "patronizing" quality in your reply (at least it's OT) when you use the word peace-loving, as if there would be something inherently wrong with it. Probably a reflection of your inner self that makes you unable to accept anything but that fable that war is progress. I tell you, it is not (though I'm not saying it never is). Unless you in the Bush camp and think the US are really doing a world of good in Irak there are numerous examples in very recent history where war has left nothing but death and destruction and where years later people are still struggeling to survive and trying to build up something resembling a normal live, now show me progress in that.
Thanks for the references on the flat earth and the dark ages, they sure "enlightened" me :-)
But I'm not sure if I can agree with you on Kepler. First of all his explanation of the orbits of the planets was much simpler than existing theories, but given that Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor) might not have been very convincing to them yet it might be better to point out that Kepler was the first to be able to explain the orbit of other stellar bodies (like Venus), so it seems his theory was arguably better than the ones of his contemporaries.
I beg your pardon? If you would have said that Chistians seem to get more of their values/ideas from the NT than the OT okay, but you make it sound is if they could just as well tear out that part of the bible and throw it out the window! That's just silly.