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Help for an MMORPG Addict?
A worried comrade asks: "A friend of mine has had what many of us (his peers) are starting to consider a serious problem that we are becoming very worried about. He is addicted to World of Warcraft, and not in the same way the rest of us are. While most of us are able to disconnect from the game to take care of our own affairs, he plays to the exclusion of his friends, his job (he calls in sick a lot, it is starting to get noticed) and his life. How do you help someone who is actively throwing their whole life away to play a game?"
I was addicted to a MUD my freshman year of college. My parents were the ones who rescued me. And I do mean rescued. This is a heartbreaking situation. You cannot help those who are not willing to help themselves, and that is the first step: getting your friend to realize he needs to help himself. Next step: getting him to realize you can help him, too.
Think traditional addiction programs - interventions, counseling. Contact a drug addiction counselor or psychologist who specializes in addiction in your area; many of the techniques involved in breaking addiction are universal. Avoid AA-type pseudoreligious programs. They have been proven not to work (no flames, please, go google the study yourself).
Keep in mind that this is not an easy process. It took me two solid years to bring my social life back to where it once was; now, another four years later, I'm "addicted" to wow in that playfully, not clinically, addicted way. But stand by your friend. Understand that your friendship means less to him than the game does. Addiction is powerful, and ugly, and hard to understand and overcome. But he's got guys (girls maybe?) like you to help him. He's better off than many.
Good luck.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
You buy 'em a better video card, another stick of RAM, you order a pizza, and you say "yes" whenever he asks if you wanna go on a raid.
Or did you mean to help him do something else? :)
Seriously.
Sex... Drugs... Alcohol... Maybe all of the above.
Maybe he should take up smoking while he is at it?
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
everytime he logs on, smack his fingers with spatula.
get his password and sell off all of his epic gear and give his money away to newbs.
It may be time to introduce him to that Elven princess he's been spending so much time cybering with.
My guess is that once he meets Bubba, the balding and overweight 48-year-old trucker from Idaho, his cravings will go away all by themselves.
Get him a Girlfriend!
Ok... sorry, sorry... couldn't resist. =)
If I clone myself, can I call it a thread?
If a girl winks to us, can I call it a race condition?
Do *not* try to hook him up with a girl. Friends of friends tried this tact on an addicted co-worker and his failure to relate to the poor girl just drove him back to the game. My personal preference is to convince him to ask the game masters for a temporary ban. Then take care of him for the withdrawl period.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Cancel his cable/DSL/whatever and force him to use 33.6 kbps dialup. It's prevented me from playing any MMORPGs.
Or, to be a little more serious, inform him of how much a good-level character will go for on eBay. He might just want to sell it to cover all those bills.
Be careful about this, though, he might want to level up a bunch of characters and sell them, instead of stopping.
A 9MM round into the CPU usually does it.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
Don't just make them quit - find something to replace the MMORPG with. Doesn't have to be a girlfriend, doesn't have to be an offline game that you only play for an hour at a time, maybe it could be a previous hobby or forcing them out of the house every night to visit with friends. Just something that'll keep their mind off of the game.
I also see people who are online in games constantly and I don't understand how anyone could possibly put up with the game for extended periods of time without taking any real breaks. (Going to the bathroom doesn't count.)
Try working out something with Blizzard, if that doesn't work, you can always sabotage his system, prevent him from playing WoW. Also, may be possible to talk to your ISP and get his access to WoW servers cut off. He needs help, but will deny it. I know this from experience (with gambling), addictions suck....WoW could be worse than gambling, unfortunately. :(
"If it's stupid and it works....it's not stupid."
This and the monthly fee.
You just got troll'd!
Whatever you do, do something. Don't just stand by and watch. MMORPG addiction can be every bit as destructive as other types of addiction, like alcoholism. Unfortunately, since it's "just a game" too many people turn a blind eye and believe that this merely anti-social behavior will work it self out. I know, because I've been there. I did the same things when EverQuest first hit the market... I played 60+ hours a week, and I often called in sick to work just to keep playing, which was how I lost my job. Luckily I wasn't married at the time, or I probably would have lost that too. In my case, it actually wasn't the MMORPG that was the problem though. Like any addiction, it was a method to fill a void in my life. I was suffering from depression due to some undesirable situations in my personal life, and I turned to the game as a substitute for real life. It became addicting because I had much more power over my life in the game than I did in my real life. You may want to make sure your friend is doing okay in other arenas; there may be a secondary reason why he spends so much time in the game.
I heard the story of a gamer who sat in the same place playing WoW for so long that he actually died from a blood clot that made it to his brain. I know the story is likely BS, but at the same time... good for him. A: he died doing something he loved. B: his best friend now has a new computer (if he had any friends) and C: no more competition in the MMORPG from him. Seriously, it is just stupid. I know what it is to be addicted to something. (recovering alcoholic) The least these guys could do is pick something that involves interaction with other people so there is a possibility of getting laid. :)
APOX on WoW
step 1, like other posters have mentioned, is to get him to understand that he has a problem (ideally before he gets fired). this involves some sort of intervention. you'll want to plan it before hand for two reasons. firstly, you want to make sure that you've got the right mix of people talking to him; secondly, you as the interveners are going to need some practice. expect that you might get any reaction from "shit, you're right." to "you're just jealous" to overt hostility.
there are several tactics you can use to get your point across. if your friend doesn't let challenges go unanswered, challenge him to put himself in a situation where he can't play the game for a month or two. tell your friend how his addiction is affecting your relations with him (this is particularly relevant if his family or significant other is at the intervention). you need to be careful that when you do this, you're making "i" statements --- "i feel like _____ when you ditch me" rather than "you ditched me, jackass". you know your friend a lot better than i do, so you've got a better feel for what may or may not work well for him. while you're having the intervention, it's really important that you all make it clear that a) you're there for him, b) you're not judging him, c) you're going to help him pull through when he asks for your help, d) this is not something that will be discussed outside of the people in the room. your goal is to make the room a safe space (much easier said than done).
good luck -- you're about to go through a really rough patch.
Cliff, Tell taco to sign up for the 12 step MMORG quitting program.
It involves daily patches and willpower.
The first step is identifying you have a problem.
WELL DONE!
liqbase
Well my roommate is seriously addicted to World of Warcraft (I refuse to call it "WOW") He does had a girlfriend...which he justified his obsession by getting her addicted. My friend recommended whipping my genitalia out and pissing on something he loves. Not wanting a direct conflict, I obviously refrained from that course. After he caught some computer virus, he reformatted his hard drive. I happened to..."hide" his lovely installation CD's. To cope with the void...we play AA (America's Army) and frisbee golf. It's nice because both of those have some form of an end. Don't know if that was entirely helpful, but hiding things seems to help.
You know which are his toons, and on which server he plays on? Get you and his friends to log on and basically harass him. Offer to do some pickup group raids with him, then ninja the good items. Leave the raid right before the boss with the nice drop. Gank him while he's questing. The idea is to make it so that he stops having fun playing. Once the reward cycle stops, he'll probably just wake up one morning and go "geez, this sucks".
I know, it's harsh, cliche, and flamebait, but honestly, it worked for me.
I played Asheron's Vall obsessively for 4 years. I spent one entire summer doing nothing but. By the time I quit, I'd accumulated well over 6 months of online time. I dropped out of all my college classes... Two quarters in a row.
My parents did me a huge favor and kicked me out of their home on my 21st birthday. I found an appartment, got a job I enjoyed, and got engaged. Between the job and the fiance, I didn't have _time_ to play for months. By the time I had time again, I'd lost interest. I played about a total of 40 hours of WoW over the course of a month and a half this year, but rapidly got bored, and haven't logged in a single time in months.
The problem is not that the game is too fun or addicting, it's that RL isn't fun enough/meaningful enough/engaging enough.
MMOs provide an easy path, with clear rewards and punishments. RL doesn't usually provide any clear feedback on how you're doing in it.
Oh, and hallucinogens can be good for treating addiction.
-------
Incite and flee.
You help him the same way you would help someone with any kind of addiction. His friends, family, professionnal...
The anonymous Slashdot audience is of no help here.
yeah! Let's argue on the Internet...
Do something, especially if you can think of something constructive that may help. But please, do NOT tie yourself into this so much that it takes you down as well. Many times I have seen people fighting addictions - drugs, alcohol, compulsive gambling, and yes religious cults and video games. I've also seen many cases where the people who care about the addict go through a hell almost as bad as the addict themselves, running on a combination of guilt and disappointment and a lot of other factors when the "treatments" don't work immediately or at all. Yes, he has a problem. Make sure it stays as HIS problem, and doesn't become your crusade.
I wish there was a choice that said "Factually Wrong -1" when I mod.
You forgot an important step in the death ritual: emailing all your gold to my character.
Finding God in a Dog
I was majorly addicted not just to mmorpg but to games as a whole. This period lasted for several years of my life during which I ignored my school responsibilities (I was in college). I also managed to lose a decent job at this time. Thankfully my girlfriend helped me. We started dating before the addiction started. During the addiction nothing mattered and finally she told me that if I didn't straighten up she was gone. I loved her enough that I managed to control my addiction and while I still play a good bit I still leave time for school, gf, friends, etc. I have also recovered in school and after this semester will be 12 hours from graduating with a dual major in both Finance and Economics.
It takes different things for different people. Lots of things were tried on me but the feelings I had for my girlfriend (now fiance we are getting married this summer) are what won the day for me.
I'm not necessarily saying that you're wrong, but don't be so quick to judge that what your friend is doing is bad.
Yes, it's bad for his status on the RL treadmill, I agree, but there are many ways to go through life, and keeping up with the Jones's is only one of them.
Is he miserable, or not eating, or not looking after his hygiene? If so, OK you have a point. But if he's in good shape physically and mentally (ie. having fun), then the rest is peripheral. He may be enjoying a better life than you are.
Jeesh, get real.
Will he just curl up and die at some point ?
Or will he end up raggedy shoed with a paper cup saying "spare some change for an hour of computer time ?"
leave him alone, it could be the last fun he ever has !
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
It's funny how addiction is often times equated with just drugs and alcohol. Best of luck to you and your friend.
And half jokingly, how about those of us addicted to their jobs. Sounds stupid but I think it happens an awful lot in today's world.
-- taking over the world, we are.
if this friend lives in Canada i suggest investing in some marijuana, a backpack, a canoe, and outdoor cookware. if this friend lives in the States i suggest tequila, a couple friends, and a pickup truck.
Here's the question: has he become a poopsocker?
Wait, wait, don't tell me .... back to the RPG?
Finding God in a Dog
Arrange for the MMORPG to go thru a New Game Enhancement. Broke my SWG habit. : p
YMMV
It is a simple question of economics. The person can spend 8 hours grinding levels for alts at World of Warcraft to get 2% better stats. Or they can spend 8 hours with their primary character grinding date quests, with a 20% chance of success and a 5% chance of critical hit.
At the end of a week, player 1 has just 15% higher stats. But player 2 has a pretty good chance of getting (or becoming) an ultra rare pet, with only a base level 18 requirement. Depending on which server and region you are in, group quests are also a possibility.
There can be complications with item drops, but anything you don't want can be sold at the auction house.
The ______ Agenda
Tattoo EXIT on his forearm and see how long he takes to notice.
Buy him a car. Catass .
He needs to see a counselor and see what is the reason he plays? Is it depression, doesnt want to face other problems?
I deleted my 60 late last year and cancelled my account. I lasted about 8 hours before i sent blizzard an email to try and dig my character up. I was playing again in 24 hours. No lie =)
In all honesty what got me to finally quit was MC. It was long, boring (I used to sit and play guitar, pausing only to spam frostbolts or sheep when needed), and most of the time I didn't get anything. When the raid guilds started to come up with more byzantine and draconian loot rules i just decided enough was enough.
I used to think the sole purpose of playing was to get to 60 and see the end. Now I realize the instances and quests getting to 60 were a lot more fun than what's left for us at 60. (Well it's not true, I mean, Strat and Scholo are fun the first what, dozen times you five-man them?)
If you really wanna help this guy you should consult a therapist or a 12-step group. Not a website that bills itself as "News for nerds".
You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
One thing that has gotten me off many games (and I've heard it helps other people too) is finding a private server or setting one up where you are GM. After you can summon the best sword in the game and run around doing everything, you wonder why you bother spending so many hours to get a weapon that doesnt even get close to the stats. It works for single player games too ... cheating that is, not just upping a few stats here and there...
My UID is prime... is yours?
I've dealt with this myself. I started playing while I was working in order to pass the evening, and because some of the people in the office played. When layoffs hit, I (and several other players) were canned - lower productivity - we stood around and talked about where to get good loot. Spent 15 months unemployed, collecting insurance for being subject to layoffs, playing 14 hours a day. One day I stopped dreaming of people and only dreamed of avatars. I woke up, logged in, and gave away my account, cancelling the future payments. Then the depression hit, I was totally alone with nothing in my life. I'd lost touch with all of my friends, hadn't spoken to any of my family in 6 months. My insurance was running out and I'd be evicted if I didn't find a source of income. More than a year of my life had just gone. I eventually got evicted in my last month of the lease, coming home from a restaurant (alone) to find the locks changed. I'd managed to pack up one vehicle load of possessions before the rest was seized. I realize now that my friends had at first tried to invite me out, but I would decline more and more in favour of the raids, and eventually, I'd just decline and wouldn't even raid. They stopped calling after a while and it was my fault alone that I'd lost them. Sometimes I get the old feeling that I got when I was playing that game and shudder mildly at the thought of returning. Then it passes as I go give my girlfriend a hug and we go see a movie or something. Never again. This person needs help, and the worst thing you can do is stop trying.
a game isn't enjoyable when it's displaying 1 frame every ten seconds. if you can't, use up his bandwith. bittorrent does the job incredibly well. hook up and download 300 copies of linux or something.
It always irks me when I read about poor real life friends being abandoned in favour of an online game, but not for the reasons you might expect. See, I've abandoned plenty of real life "friends" and made friends online too, but although I met plenty of my online friends via various games (especially MUDs), the games were not the reason why my real life friendships began to suffer. If anything, it was because the people who I had previously hung out with just didn't click with me anymore, and playing a game was a way to distance myself from them. If any of them had attempted an "intervention," I would have been pretty damn pissed -- meeting me in real life does NOT give anyone the right to try and pry me away from my chosen form of entertainment. It's my life, and I get to choose who I want to be friends with and what I want to do in my spare time.
Incidentally, my life has never particularly suffered as a result of the small amount of game addiction that I have experienced. Maybe my marks would have been a bit higher (I usually get low to mid A's and high B's, with the odd A+ for flavour) if I'd spent less time gaming and more time doing homework, but realistically, if I hadn't been gaming or wasting time doing other hardcore nerd stuff, I would have been out dancing, getting drunk, and having random unprotected sex like the average university student -- not exactly my cup of tea.
Quite honestly, having a chance to play a game, interact with people all over the world, roleplay, and gank the hell out of a bunch of noobs is a LOT more important to me than getting laid or frying a bunch of brain cells, even though the latter activities might be more "normal" or even "healthy." If gaming makes me happy and sex/drinking doesn't, my former friends don't need to intervene... if they truly care, they need to let me be happy on my own terms.
There are certainly people who do need help breaking a game addiction, specifically the ones who are actually depressed by the prospect of losing aspects of their real lives, but the point I'm trying to make is that not all game addicts either want or need help. I'd rather let people be happy doing what they love than force them to take part in more socially-accepted activities that I know they're going to hate. Maybe they will lose their jobs, marriages, and friends, but if they're still happy, why does it matter? Isn't it better to be unemployed, alone and happy than rich, married, and depressed?
(Sorry for being so incoherent, but I hope you'll get the idea -- I'm at work, and I'm sleepy from skating during my lunch break and spending the rest of the day coding, so my brain isn't exactly working at full capacity.)
I really can't relate to your friend's problem. Why would anybody prioritize some stupid online hobby over real life??
On a more serious note, for the love of God, mod me up! I've been posting and posting trying to gain karma, and it's starting to effect my work ethic!!
if his life sucks he'll go back to games.Its like drug addicts,the real reason is something lacking in their life,and they try to supplant it with artificial methods.
Its self-reinforcing loop afterwards.
if you think that drunk driving is the only way to hurt yourself or die with alcohol addiction.
You're also kidding yourself if you think the repetitive but spontaneous release of dopamine and endorphine isn't a chemical addiction. These games are designed to create that kind of response, and the symptoms of withdrawal show up in these cases on a very regular basis.
While not exactly the same, I started smoking when I was 16. Got up to two packs a day. One day I woke up and realised that a.) cigarettes were really expensive and b.) they were detrimental to my health. I was also an alcoholic at an early age too.
You just stop doing it. Yes, it's that easy. People say that it's hard or impossible to quit addictions because of withdrawal, etc. Nonesense. It's all in your head. Just stop and see how these things are impacting your life and that's reason enough to quit.
Just my two cents...
Fighting over religion is like seeing whose imaginary friend is best.
..your post is the first one that's made any sense. We live in a world of increasing crime, decreasing civil liberties, unending cultural conflict, really awful culture (music, etc) with no viable alternatives, on the news there's nothing but crime and violence, work by definition sucks, financial security is an illousion, family is, by definition, a burden and relationships turn bitter more often than not.
If someone can find solace or-god-forbid joy in this hell of unending stress then I say more power to them!
You'd probably feel more at home on kuro5hin...
One week with the NGE is enough to drive even the most hardcore MMO player to quit for good....
Next on your favorite news site: "A friend of mine has a serious problem. He is addicted to Slashdot. While most of us are able to disconnect from the site to take care of our own affairs, he keep reading dupes to the exclusion of his friends, his job and his life."
I practice Aikido 4 times a week. I use it to blow off steam and cope with the rest of the world. Am I addicted to Aikido? I don't know, but it does make me feel better and I get antsy and a bit off when I miss practice. Also, some doctors are talking about information addiction where some people get addicted to being able to reload the news page and get instant everything. I don't know if their have been any clinical studies yet. The addictive tendancies may also be related to the idea of amount of work put in versus the apparent reward that you receive. You don't have to work to hard (click to victory) but you get all these rewards that make you feel better.
Architectural plans are like computer source code with a couple of differences: You only compile once.
There isn't really that many things to do in WoW.
If the friend is skipping work may be he's trying to get the PvP rank.
Or may be his raid group runs at a time that collides with his work.
How would you treat someone who spends 8 hours a day playing Beethoven Mozart on the piano?
Or someone who spends the same amount of time watching TV? Or reading classic literature?
Why, in particular, does WoW stand out as unacceptable?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Can anyone also help all the addicts that check slashdot 50 times a day?
Seriously, even checking and responding to email is becoming an addiction for a lot of people these days. By addiction, you can probably define it as something that takes at least an hour or two of every day, and where you can't go without it or your anxiety levels go up...
I'm surprised that no one has suggested moving him to a high pop server... the lag alone will drive him away.
On a serious note, standard intervention techniques work. So does living in the middle of nowhere, where your dialup connection hangs up every 15 minutes.
Take a huge bag of weed, some coke, and a few hookers over to his place. If he fails to stop playing after he notices you smoking a dube and doing a line off some hooker's thigh, then you need to: leave the drugs at the house, call the cops, and get out of dodge. A few days or years in the slammer should cure his WOW addiction.
Hehe. Well I guess I better not post this link. It's a page about the GOOD things about games.
...just let the Sirens kick you out.
My friend had a better approach than deleting his stuff. He download a out-of-date version of WOWglider (a blatant hack), knowing that blizzards hack detection system would catch it immediately, and left it running overnight. Came back in the morning to find his account permanantly banned by blizzard.
Why strap yourself to the pole when you can get the
Feel free to tell him he's being stupid- that he won't be playing this game in 5 years because it will be obsolete- or any other facts you want to tell him as long as he will listen.
BUT
It is his life.
If he wants to get a tattoo (and risk hep) he can.
If he wants to rock-climb (and risk dying) he can.
If he wants to bungie jump he can.
If he wants to join the french foriegn legion he can.
If he wants to quit his job he can.
If he wants to play WOW then -he can-.
It's also -his responsibility-.
That means- you don't give him money for electricity, to fix his computer, to eat, or any kind of support for the habit.
But it's HIS BLOODY LIFE- NOT YOURS.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
You deal with it the same way people dealt with their EverQuest addictions, you let them play until they get burned out and stop on their own.
Having been an addict level Everquest player twice, who eventually lost interest twice when I realized it was taking me away from other things I enjoy in life, I have one point to make..
Especially now that most MMORPG'ing is accompanied by Teamspeak etc, chances are your friend has quite good friends in the game, that he chats with, spends a lot of time with (more time probably than with any real life friend). Don't short the importance of these friendships, if he were to stop playing the game, he might feel like he was betraying friends, or walking away from people who counted on him. I know I definitely felt like that, possibly because I played an enchanter, and the guilds I was in often couldn't run certain raids unless I was on.
If you're going to get him to quit the game, you have to make sure he feels like he's not walking out on the people he's spent literally weeks or months of his time interacting with. I know I still keep in touch with a fair number of my EQ friends, and have since met several of them IRL and turned game friendships into more tangible ones. Giving him support in that process, not belittling the time he spends with his online friends, and making sure he doesn't feel like he's leaving them in a lurch is probably the most important support you can give him.
Later it was, "Get these three interesting quests done and find a decent new weapon."
Even later it was, log on and check mail.
When I got really careful about deciding what was valuable to do in the game, I started having thoughts like, "You know...I think it would be more valuable to me to go for a walk and look at the sky."
That was pretty much the end of my interest in WoW.
Don't try to make him completely stop playing WOW - as others have said, it's a form of entertainment and it's quite possible that he's happy playing it. Just remind him that WOW will always be there but missing work, etc could lead to permanent problems. He'll probably get bored of WOW in a few months anyway, especially if his friends don't completely dump him and he's still aware of what they're up to (and if they do, they were probably not good friends to begin with).
What would Chuck Norris do?
You are either someone who plays or your are not. Decide what you are and be that. I have no patience for this panzy-ass "trying to quit", be it smoking, drinking, gaming, or whatever.
Unplug the computer. Do what you need to do and stop playing.
If its just YOU who thinks its a problem for someone else, say something -- once. If he doesn't agree, then fine. Its his life. Maybe he just enjoys it. He's not out robbing banks or molesting children. He's spending HIS money on HIS form of entertainment. If you can't live with it, walk away.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
...you may find your concerns about accepting responsibility and making amends addressed in them.
Coke can get u off anything man. WoW is no match to the power of the faerie dust!
Satanic Cats
You're right that destroying your account doesnt prevent a new one, but it so throughly and irrevocably destroys your progress that is presents a very serious obstacle to resuming play, wheras your drinking example doesnt. If you burn all my booze, i can go buy more thats exactly the same. If you destroy my 60 priest with Tier 2 epics, thats months and months setback that i cant buy. ...except on ebay, i guess. For a #$%^ton of money.
So yeah, its not perfect, but its a hell of a big obstacle. Worked for my friend, anyway.
If you want to rehabilitate your friend, find him a person, preferably of the opposite sex, that can intelligently discuss 14/31/5 vs 0/30/21, or debate the merits of +heal vs. mana/5 gear. You can probably get this guy to go to a bar or something *gasp* social, if he knows he'll be able to have his geek discussion. Once he gets used to seeing other people on a regular basis, he'll probably be less inclined to hide in his hole all day. It does get pretty damn lonely killing dragons all day long, and it takes being NOT lonely for a little while to realize this.
On that note, 60 mage LFG Honolulu
You could petition the developer to radically change the gameplay and combat systems. That'll get even the most addicted to quit.
If you have unfettered access to the network in question no need for direct sabotage or ISP intervention. A little ARP spoofing and an "unreliable" connection, combined with some appropriate "fuck it, want to go to the bar?" comments could probably work. ;)
C:\> echo 127.0.0.1 worldofwarcraft.com >> C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
It worked for my friend. His little brother wouldn't stop playing runescape on the family computer. The site has been down for a long time now, I wonder what happend? Damn comcast and their poor DNS servers...
MMOs leave you with nothing once you step away from the machine. Although characters and enemies get stronger, the relationship between you and your enemy is precisely fixed, and it stays that way throughout the length of the game. Furthermore, there is a system of diminishing returns on all MMOs to stop people from reaching the end when the game makers run out of content.
One day, if you're lucky, you realize you're just feeding the basal human instinct for acquisition without anything to show for it. MMOs do not have room for improvement. Your stats increase but you aren't getting "better" at anything.
When you absolutely *nail* a difficult solo on a guitar, or rip up the solo violin part of Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto in E minor with a whole orchestra behind you, it is fulfilling in a way owning Rag will never be. Believe me, I've done all three.
It takes years to get good enough at anything to start seeing that kind of return, but once you get a taste of it you won't ever confuse one for the other.
Get you, all your friends, everyone you know, all of you grab your very own copy of WoW. Roll all Shamans or Rogues. Track down your addicted friend. Camp him. Endlessly.
:)
At least, that's what broke my WoW addiction, and the people who helped me weren't even my friends.
The only suggestion I can make, and it looks like it's been made already (redundancy is my middle name!), is to sit down with your friend and explain your concerns to him. Make sure he realizes just how worried you are.
He will be sent to some remote corner of the globe where he will probably not be able to connect to the net. On top of that, helping other people is really rewarding. Once he sees how the majority of poor people in the globe lives, he will probably figure out that there are more important things in life than a stupid game.
cry more noob
Playing WOW costs money. I don't know if there is a fee to actually /play/ WOW, but certainly you have to have pay to have a place to stay, pay for electricity, and pay for internet access.
If WOW becomes a problem so that you lose your job, and income, eventually you will lose the means to play WOW. Self-solving problem.
Harsh way to solve an addiction, but in the end, it will solve itself. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can start back up.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
form a guild for the express purpose of pking him repeatedly over and over until his online life is unpalatable....
Maybe, his life is better that way. Some of us are too different, too hard to fit in this society like everybody else. Can`t be "saved" because this enviroment is what make us search for a exit.
I think that is better to spend 12 hs gaming, that being 12 hs doped with prozac or other drugs, or
suicide. You may think that your life style is better, but you never know, maybe that is a new form of life,
the online life. If he is happy that way, i say leave him alone...
how do you stop the wow addiction...
one level at a time?
...its own addictive chemicals. Take a look at the following chemicals released into the brain during sex:
Dopamine
Norepinephrine
Testosterone
Oxytocin
My point isn't that there are lots of chemicals released during sex or that sex is bad (I love it!). My point is that we sometimes overlook addictions simply because they don't involve injecting/consuming foreign chemicals. MMORPG's are plenty capable of causing a surge in chemicals produced by your own body. These levels are different for every person and aren't dangerous in and of themselves. What is dangerous is when you form a habit and your body depends on the constant production of certain chemicals.
The best way to stay clear of addictions you may be susceptible to is to look for patterns in your life or in the lives of your friends/family. If these patterns prevent you or them from functioning normally then you/they have a problem no matter how harmless the activity may seem.
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
strangely that's how I got over my first post college girlfriend. It's something that may not be uniquely canadian, but very few Americans that I have met would feel as comfortable heading out in to the deep woods (Like most of northern ontario) for a couple of weeks to reconnect with themselves. Side note (don't drink myself) but weightwise, pound for pound, or ounce for ounce, it's more efficient to carry a 2 week supply of pot, as opposed to a 2 week supply of booze. Spending a couple of weeks actually fishing , chopping wood, making fire - all for real is a great way to recover from the evils of the world, be they MUDs, or girls, or Muddy girls.
The rock, the vulture, and the chain
Second, I doubt if there's only one study on the effectiveness of 12-step programs. Given the size of the rehab industry, there must be thousands.
Third (and this is the bigee): it's stupid and dangerous to make health care or mental health decisions on the basic of ONE STUDY.
It's bad enough when people cite research results out of context in order to justify their personal prejudices. But justifying your prejudices on the basis of a study you can't even cite is the purest degree of assholedness.
http://mangband.org/
I mean, how can you feel about about being addicted to ASCII?
yeah...that's more or less what happened to me. They did a routine player wipe before introducing a bunch of new features in the MUD I was playing. I got pissed off enough to quit. It worked for me, but I wouldn't recommend it in general. I don't really think I could have been classified as addicted (though it did consume me for about a semester).
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
You know, something the rest of the world can relate to. One you can make money at. Then he can write a book about it, invent a catch phrase like "Just Hang In There", get featured on Oprah and crash and burn publically, then write another book about that experience, lather, rinse, repeat.
The same as drug addiction. The same as alcoholism. The same as sex, golf, gambling, whatever addiction. The manifestation of the disease is what you see -- the excessive WoW playing. The real problem is inside deeper. No shitting you here. I have first hand knowledge.
I used to be into games because i couldn't relate to people at all, social situations were painful and I avoided them.
One of my friends got me into ecstasy, and I started taking that - it gave me a lot of confidence and love for socalising (and loud techno music, which I had never liked). I don't take it anymore, all in all I took it maybe 30 times over a two year period. Probably excessive, you don't need to go this far.
There is a lot of documented evidence that mdma has several very thereputic applications, and it certainly got me out of a painful, anti-social rut.
I don't take it anymore, but I still go out and I have many more friends, and a girlfriend. Really, it may vary wildly for you, and i'm not really recommending anyone try it because it's illegal, but it was an incredibly positive influence in my life.
just my personal experiance.
His WoW playing might be a symptom of a larger problem. Just saying, since his behavior seems to mirror mine (in my case: WoW 16+ hours/day, avoiding friends/family, quitting very good job). If he's willing to listen to you, suggest he talk to a shrink. Now that I'm working through my issues, I wish I would have done so years ago (my problems predate my uptake of WoW significantly, but were completely unnoticed by everyone else before I started playing so much).
You really can never have any idea what people are going through if they don't want you to know. This MMO addiction might just be the visible tip of a much larger iceberg.
At the very least, it doesn't hurt to get checked out.
Patch 10 should change his mind since its now impossible to get a raid.
The entire group should destroy their accounts then confront the guy. His choice will be simple now that he's left alone as his friends have moved on. Now, everyone can enjoy an explosion of free time to do other things like getting enough sleep at night.
Problem is, that won't happen.
I know MMOers and I know that collecting the next item and feeding the itch *is* more important to the other players than keeping this guy from losing his job and connection with reality.
If anything his peers will fight for him to stay, to continue to group/raid and enable everyone else to collect more virtual crap and virtual status.
Eventually, this guy will hit rock-bottom and his addiction will sort itself out from there.
Introduce him to the wonders of a Macro Keyboard
a few weeks later, problem will be solved!
----- Concentrate on promoting more than demoting.
Maybe he can try to find a job in a MMO game industry, whether it's a developer, content developer, tester, etc. So he could still play and work :)
You can beat this. Stop playing. Get a WizBan, or something similar, for at *least* a month. So you have no way to get back on, cuz you're going to try. Then, get out of your house. Distractions abound outside your computer room.
If you have the option, and you have to use a computer, get a low-powered one that can't play the game. If yer a MUD addict, then get rid of your client. You'd be surprised how much more tedious playing MUDs can be without a client. If that still doesn't work, maybe an abacus is more your speed for the time being...
When I say get out of your house, I don't mean exercise, or any of that crap, (unless you wanna, then go for it), but just leave your house. Go hang out with friends. They should be supportive. Go to the bar, take in a movie, whatever, but leave the computer alone, entirely. You need to find new distractions to replace the game, and no single distraction will do the job, if it did, you'd just be transferring your addiction onto another, possibly worse, activity.
When I played EQ, my hard and fast rule was simple. I played the game, ruthlessly, for dozens of hours at a time. But, if someone called, or came over, or just generally wanted to do something, I quit the group, or raid, or whatever and went out. No ifs ands or buts. If there was *anything* else to do (involving contact with other humans), the game got shut off. I suggest the same rule for anyone who is worried that they are heading down the ol' addiction road. Sometimes I'd just go out with friends, just to talk about EQ for 5 or 6 hours. But we weren't playing the game, and we were out of the house.
You play the game because it relieves boredom. Get bored again, and you'll figure out things to do.
Not only are MMORPGs a dangerous thing to be addicted to, but I have a "friend" who is addicted to reading comment after mindless comment on some technology news site.
I don't know anything about it. But I'm worried for them.
Surely you have acquaintances who feel that you yourself spend too much time playing Wow? How would you react if they posited the idea that maybe you should cut back, get out more, stop wasting all that time and money? And how would you feel if you found out that they had posted this article to slashdot about you?
Comfort yourself with the thought that it is totally and completely not your problem, and you should really just butt out.
Just cast a buff on his self-control......pfft.
I was really badly addicted to everquest. I played it an average of 10 hours / day for almost 3 years. I had some money on bank that i lived on for the period. Its not like you spend much money when the only thing you do is sitting all day infron of the computer. I never graduated from high school because of everquest. Maybe i was lucky but everything turned out well for me anyway. Because of everquest i ended up in dublin and had lots of fun there for a year. When i came back to sweden i started studying web development and now i have a really good job. I have played alittle WoW, everquest 2 and other mmorpgs but its not as fun anymore, thsoe games suck if your not an addict, and i think that people will get tired of playing mmorpgs after awhile. So its not like being addicted to heroine or nicotine, even though it can be very destructive during the years you are addicted. I was quite young when i played but i guess its much worse for older people that have jobs and family. I know a few people that lost everythign because of everquest, but they didnt really complain becuase now they could play as much as they wanted =P
You do the same thing for all addictions.
Take your friend, strap him into a chair in the middle of a warehouse and force him to watch an anti-warcraft videos!
If he tries to shut his eyes, matchsticks are a handy utensil that can easily keep eyelids open (or inflict severe prodding doom!)
It worked for me... *Twitches*
Shock therapy
Simple answer - you can't be addicted to WoW, because it isn't addictive.
Long answer - what you are addicted to is excitement, socialising, power, money etc. An 18 year old male teenager can very quickly determine if he is addicted... offer him sex, if he accepts then he isn't addicted.
Very soon a balance will be reached, where you lose your job and can't pay the WoW fees any more.
That's when you will realise you were not addicted, just merely foolish.
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
Ah, I never get enough of the drug-scare where anything that's a chemical -- even normal brain mediators -- is suddenly scary and to be avoided.
Get this: dopamine is just a non-specific "I'm happy" signal in your brain. No more, no less. It's not some dope hit as a reward, or whatever bullshit you may have heard from ignorant scare mongers. It's _the_ natural "I'm happy" signal that the brain uses. (Some drugs immitate its effects, yes, which is why they also make one happy. But that's the correct relationship: drugs are a substitute for the brain's normal chemicals, not the other way around.)
It's also non-specific. It doesn't fire just for MMOs, it fires every time you're glad about something. When the village gossip-monger found a good listener, or when the amateur photograph finds a cool thing to photograph, or when the Slashdot karma-whore sees that he's been moderated +5 Insightful... guess what? The exact same kind of dopamine response is involved. And not just in humans. When your cat is glad that she found a nice comfy place to sleep in, or when your dog is glad that the pack leader (i.e., you) gives him attention, yep, it's dopamine again.
And yes, you're sorta pre-addicted to it from even before you were born. Everyone seeks to do the things they find pleasant, as opposed to the things they dislike. And yes, the dopamine levels immediately start to decay so you'll have to find the next fun thing to do, instead of being happy for your whole life that you once played a game. Go figure.
Natural selection used that kind of stimulus to keep one doing the "good" things, as opposed to randomly doing dumb things. E.g., wolves have to feel glad about getting back near the pack, so they don't get spread.
So the only way to not feed that scary dopamine addiction would be to avoid having any fun in your life.
There is no such thing as being "addicted to MMOs" strictly, as is the case with other drugs. When you're addicted to, say, Alcohol or cigarettes, there is only one substance that can satisfy the addiction. In the "dopamine addiction" anything fun will work just as well.
Again, it's just that humans (and all other animals) are pre-"addicted" to doing fun stuff, and to avoid non-fun stuff. _Any_ fun stuff will do. Sure, some get in a rut about how they get their fun, but then non-gamers find their own ruts too. (E.g., the village gossip-monger can get stuck on looking for the next listener, or the Slashdot karma whore can get stuck on refreshing the page.) But from the dopamine point of view, _anything_ fun will trigger it just the same anyway. That's all.
And saying that "These games are designed to create that kind of response" is just a pretentious way of saying: games are designed to be fun. That's all.
It's not just computer games, and it's not just humans. Most animals have their own games, tailored around what natural selection pre-programmed them to find fun.
E.g., cats are predators, so the natural selection advantage was to be pre-programmed along the lines of "go chase something that moves and, if needed, fight it." So that's what they get, surprise, a dopamine hit for. So they have their own games where they wrestle each other. (When it looks like your cats are beating the living snot out of each other, chances are good that that's their idea of a game, not actual fighting.) Or everyone has played with their cat by making her chase something, be it a piece of paper on a string or a spot of light or whatever. Yep, that's dopamine for your cat. Somewhere in her feline brain there'll be a "yay, I chased it and caught it! I'm happy!" response, which means dopamine.
E.g., rabbits are prey and their fun stuff is along the lines of "yay, I successfully ran away from some menace". So if you observe them, you'll see that they actually play games along those lines. They actually chase each other, effectively playing the role of a "menace" for each other.
Etc.
So, yes, humans are pre-addicted to fun (_all_ humans, including non-gamers), and games are designed to be great fun. It doesn't sound as pretentious and pseudo-scientiffic as the "addiction to dopamine" bullshit, but that's really all there is to it. Big whopping surprise there.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Prolly if he put as much effort in his real life as he is putting in wow, then he would be a miljonair by now...
Food for thought...
Well, it may sound crazy, but the most effective method I've come across for dealing with addiction is to remove the person from it. Talk to the guy, convince him that you need to take a trip to somewhere that his vice is not available. If you both have passports, I recommend a trip to somewhere that is less likely to have computers that can play WoW. As a good example, I would recommend either the Virgin Islands or maybe the Greek island of Samos. If you're American without a passport, then a trip to the Keys in south Florida is pretty good. The goal is to get him away from easily addictive things. For example, if you were to go to Amsterdam and sit at the coffee shops and enjoy the hash, it's counter productive. Hash itself is believed to be not addictive, but the environment and lifestyle of using it is addictive. Drinking girly drinks with little unbrellas in it in a tropic island is relaxing, not so addictive. Often with game addictions the player just needs to experience life without the game to see that it really isn't so bad. Alternatively, you can be a mean assed bastard, take taser gun and hit the telephone wires on the side of his house with it. (Hit the cable wire if he's using cable modem). It should do enough damage that he won't be able to access the net without the cable installation guy coming out and fixing it. Of course, the less destructive method would be just to take a minitorch and a shit load of solder and make the biggest solder ball you've ever seen on top of the connections, shorting it out. Lots of 2 part epoxy on top of that adds a nice effect. I personally prefer the taser approach just because it's really fun to listen to a person screaming their head off yelling "FFS" and such when their cablemodem/adsl modem goes up in smoke.
I was addicted to MUDs for a couple years and I know how it feels. What finally cured me was the admins saying one day "Er.... we've realized there's been some cheating... so we're wiping the server".
Reality of many hundreds (thousands?) of wasted hours with nothing to show for it hit me like a brick. Never looked back.
Treating addictive behaviour is always problematic - simply due to the fact that the persons around the affected person tend to play some certain "role" in the addiction.
For instance, in alcohol addiction may build up some roles, such as
- The desparate wife, who is blaming his alcoholic husband over and over
- The helpful friend, who is looking after the addicted person, tries to understand him and always has a good advice, which will probably never ever help
- The (also alcoholic) friends, who lure the addicted person over and over into the same situations
None of these persons will really help the addictive to get out, instead they are part of his system and are cementing his behavior even more. You know, people are also getting "their part" or "energy" out of their role:
- The desperate wife needs something to complain about
- The helpful friend needs the gratefulness of the addictive
- The alcoholic friends need someone who they can look down at (he's more addictive than I am)
So the first question one should ask himself is: "What is my role in this system?", and: "What can I do to change my role which may lead to destabilization of the current system and possibly lead to a real change and therefore help for the addictive?"
I am not suggesting to abandon someone. Just closely take a look at yourself. Look if and what "energy" you are getting out of this for yourself.
These ideas are not mine, if you are interested, take a look at the book "Games People Play" from Eric Berne, which is to my mind highly recommendable.
That aside, long as the guy eats, does his laundry etc why can't he sit on his ass playing his MMO 8+ hours every day?
Many have pointed out it's not the addiction to the game, it's how fucking boring real life can be. How tedious and monotonous it can be to get up every morning at the fucking crack of dawn before the sun is even up, to go to work where you'd more than likely be charged with doing some menial task. Often constricted with many rules such as no personal phone calls (you'll see what I mean in a moment) or radio or anything to take your mind off how fucking boring it is to slave away at whatever you are doing. And this is even assuming you have a nice deskjob. Think about the poor bastards doing the manual labor.
So you do your job for 8 hours every day, usually 5 maybe 6 days a week, year round. With no obligations to a personal family or children you are bound only to yourself. Why can't the guy sit at home and play his MMO? Sure, in some similarities, WoW (or other games) can be just as tedious as a real job. But in an MMO, you can chat with friends without being scolded by an employer, you can use any program you want such as Winamp or a voice comm to talk to people. Then there's the actual fun in the game, the tradeskilling/farming aside, I'm sure they find their real fun doing the PvP or end game PvE stuff with guildmates and friends to be the bread & butter of the game.
Let him play. Long as guy understands he needs to go to work, pay his bills, get a decent amount of sleep each day/night then he's good to go. Don't force him to "go out with friends" in real life. Ever consider some of us don't like fucking going out? I personally can't stand bars or bar hopping, or clubs etc And around here thats all there is for people in their mid 20's to do. Sure a girlfriend could benefit him but don't try to force him into something, thats something he and only he will choose to do at some point if he ever does.
Aw Frell this
I'm only too happy to offer some advice on this; i too have a friend in a similar situation- his life as a lizard man in everquest has eclipsed everything else he does and there's no real indication he sees this as a problem.
Seriously forget the 12 step programs, my advice is as follows;
1 - seek out the 'stone of washing under the arms', this artifact can help a lot in the later stages.
2 - completely outside of the game this one, get to know the creatures that are called 'the women folk'; converse with them, they are kind and helpful in many different ways!
3 - find a way to avoid the 'waste your life [in a crappy fantasty] spell'; the mantra "not another fucking elf!" is helpful here
4 - hopefull this will lead you to the fabled 'sword of growing up', found in the temple of 'be who you want to be'
-your quest is over adventurer!
Buy him Oblivion, worked for me.
;) )
(Although its probably just a temporary fix
Why is the parent not ++++++++++5 funny? Mod me down but mod him up!
> you need to simply attempt moderation or complement with something else that is more interesting
I'm supprised no-one has suggested the predecessor of the MMOG as an alternative, the table top RPG
I used to live with a guy (... ... flatmate flatmate, don't get any ideas) who played various MMOGs alot.
I used to run a tabletop RPG game once a week and eventually convinced him to join.
The escapism he found in the MMOGs was replaced for one night a week with the escapism of the tabletop game. He had a character to control, a diverse party of characters to interact with and an ever changing quests/goals to complete. As an added bonus he got some offline human interaction and made new friends who in turn included him in thier social life (other table top RPG groups, parties, pub, etc).
He still plays on-line but now for two nights a week he is invloved in tabletop games that requre organisation, leaving the house, etc.
And trust me if you skip work to MMOG only your boss will care, skip a table top RPG and the other members of the party are likely to drive to your house, kidnap you and force you to play. At least they do where I come from, we take our role-play seriously.
Paul Gogarty
Having addressed what dopamine really is, let's move on to the actual topic of addiction.
If someone ends up retreating into a game, or into any other kind of compulsively seeking one kind of fun instead of dealing with RL, blaming it on the dopamine is addressing the symptom instead of the cause. The real cause there is the sharp contrast in how much fun that is in contrast to their RL problems. The real problem there is that basically they find that the rest of their life sucks and doesn't give them much reason for joy.
Even if you want to stick to the "dopamine addiction" pseudo-scientific explanation to the bitter end, the fact still remains: you won't get someone stuck on games who gets plenty of dopamine in their life otherwise. You won't get someone to call in sick to play MMO if they find their job interesting and fun.
E.g., I remember days back in university when I had real fun, and months of it, coding new and interesting stuff, and believe me, no game could have pulled me away from that. In fact, it was in my free time, instead of games. There was a challenge, there was the discovering new stuff, and there was the reward or achievement, i.e., much the same elements that make games fun. (And thus trigger the dopamine response.) Some of it was "multiplayer" too, involving competition or bragging rights among fellow students and members of a local wannabe-"hacker" group. (Bearing in mind that "hacker" still mostly meant talent and hard-work, rather than "cracker" or "script-kiddie", or at least for some people.) Being the only student whose parser for a term assignment was a full BASIC-like language _including_ an IDE and debugger (yeah, I was that much of an over-achiever) was more reward and bragging rights than any game could possibly offer. I even skipped a boring christmas party to work on that IDE.
Basically you won't see any game, and least of all a MMO, pulling someone from a fun job like that.
On the other hand, it's easy to seek refuge somewhere else (be it games, karma-whoring on slashdot, whatever) if your job sucks more ass than the vaccuum toilets on the space shuttle, your "friends" are boring and in fact not much more than "acquaintances", your girlfriend is a pain in the ass, the neighbours are nosy gits that only get suddenly friendly when they need you to clean their computer of spyware, etc.
I.e., to have that kind of a sharp contrast you need _two_ halves. No matter how much fun games may be, the alternatives still need to be a lot less fun to create that kind of clear-cut avoidance response.
In which case seeking refuge in a game (or in anything else) is really just the lowest resistance path. It's easier to just jump into the one activity that's fun, than to deal with what makes the rest of your life non-fun. E.g., it's easier to just day-dream from 9 to 5 through a crap job, and then jump into WoW, than quit and find a better job. It's easier to put Azeroth as a separation layer between you and your friends, even if you're in the same guild, than to find yourself real friends you have some common topics with.
And IMHO any kind of "cure" should address that underlying topic, rather than the symptom. Depriving someone of their sole source of fun, no matter how you may rationalize it as protecting them from some bullshit dopamine addiction, isn't solving their problems, it's just pushing them towards depression if nothing else fills that void. As long as they don't start dealing with their RL problems, being stuck with them 24h a day isn't an improvement in any form or shape.
I.e., basically the way is to help them find dopamine somewhere else, rather than protect them from it. Because again, the only way you could possibly keep someone dopamine-free is making sure they never have any joy in their life.
Which, come to think of it, seems to be the goal of some of the busibodies and moralistic groups.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
- pay a hooker to keep him busy every day
- install an EULA-violating bot on his account, then report him to get him banned
- bribe some techie at his ISP to make his connection unstable
or, perhaps, accept that it's one of the cheapest, least unhealthy addictions he can possibly have - and it won't last, he'll get off it without any permanent negative effects on his health (but he'll regret the wasted time). For most people, WoW gets boring after a couple of months of intensive play, there's just not enough new content and farming instances all the time for your set items gets too tedious.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
After reading all these posts, I've been turned off even trying WoW.
Sure I'm addicted to games, but I do have a very busy life and I run out of time to play any longer.
One of my clients is a game freak, eventually settling down to play FS9 (Flightsim).
He plays it any time he gets a chance, spends countless dollars getting hardware upgrades and flys from Moscow to LA in REAL TIME!
So there's addictions everywhere and I'm too scared to look inside and find mine.
I know it's not Slashdot as I'm still trying to work out what the hell it is.
It is definitely NOT "News for Nerds." and "Stuff that matters"???? Maybe sometimes, but the whole culture of Slashdot is pretty addictive, but not like a game.
Now I'm sure I can get across Bramberg Dam using my knife only.... Damn that sniper!
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
Offer him an similar real life challange. If he does that with as much disciplin and ambition, he'll probably end up wealthy.
By the time he gets back he'll be having so much fun with the adventure called Life that the MMORPG will now seem shallow. Either that or he'll be dead. Either way, it'll be a life changing experience.
Er. My legal team wants me to disclaim that this post post is intended for entertainment purposes only. The people depicted in this post are trained professionals in a closed world. Do not attempt this at home. That is all.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
This has got to be a side effect of increased levels of adrenaline in my bloodstream. I may not physically be in danger, but my brain is reacting to the danger on screen by triggering the fight or flight response in my body.
Adrenaline is not a drug, but a quick google search shows that adrenaline addiction can be very real.
You tell him to stand the fuck up, turn off the PC and get a fucking life.
Try getting addicted to coke, that's hard to kick. All you're friend need to do is to stop being such a boring little faggot and turn off the fucking power.
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
Oh I'm so sorry [insert person's name], is water bad for your computer?
Of all the answers I've read so far, this could be the one that works, at least in the short term. Induce latency, and packet loss, and yes, you can get him out. Of course, he'll soon work out that it's your laptop that's causing all this, and ban you from his net.
Get your own free personal location tracker
Contact his guildmaster and explain the situation to him.
/gkick and thereby force a 1 month break from the game on your friend. Make sure the GM explains to him why this is being done.
Have the guildmaster
The people in game has become the only people he listens to now. A forced break coming from them will have a much greater effect than someone from real life trying to intervene.
one thing you forgot: you could say the same thing about heroin
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
I used to play EQ, perhaps 4 hours a day. This wasn't to the detriment of real life since if there was something on I'd go out. But even so, I played it enough over several years. The thing with games like this is that they start off as fun - you advance quickly and there is a lot to do. But as the levels plod on, the stuff to do diminishes to almost nothing. You might group up for a raid or something, but much of the rest of the time is concerned with corpse dragging, doing pointless repetitive-click crafting, auctioning the crap you made and basically getting nowhere. An hour of effort might see the xp bar advance a pixel. On top of that, shitty EQ won't even let you flip to Windows during downtime. I looked at some of the people who spent their lives camped in front of a spawn point. I watched as the game became so top heavy that twinking was the norm. I wondered to myself - what the hell is wrong with me - do I have to be like those assholes camped on a spawn for 20 hours to get anywhere with this game?
It didn't help that Sony / Verant treated the players like shit - unpaid beta testers - and there were some very crappy upgrades. The final straw was the Shadows of Luclin expansion which forced everyone to upgrade their DirectX and was so flakey that the game crashed for weeks. I was close to quitting anyway but every crash during that period was an extra shock to the system. When time came to renew my subscription, I just uninstalled. There is a wrench to let a character disappear like that and I still get occasional begging emails from Verant to reactivate, but it ain't gonna happen unless they give me 30 days free play or something for nothing. I might take them up for nostalgia's sake, but when that period is up, my character will die again.
Funnily enough, the experience has innoculated me somewhat against other MMPORGs. I've played City of Heroes / Villains, Puzzle Pirates, Star Wars Galaxies, EVE: Online, A Tale in The Desert, WoW (during beta), Guild Wars, Anarchy Online. Some of these I paid for (COH, Eve, ATITD), some through free trials (SWG, AO). While I've found some of those games to be fun, the same grind affects most of them.
The most innovative counter-grind measure I was was EVE which allowed you to automate your grind such that even if something took days to finish, it would happen even if you weren't there. EVE was a great game, but its too intense for me, and grind is grind even if you don't have to be there for it. But if something is going to take 25 days to finish, that's almost an entire month's sub right there.
The worst by far for grind was A Tale in the Desert. The demo period was fairly cute and fun so I stumped up $10 for an extra month. Oh the fun I had growing flax, planting seeds, watering seeds, harvesting flax, putting flax in the river, waiting for it to rot, combing it and spinning it. For variety I could gather planks, slate and create mud bricks and watch them dry in the sun. After that I could use the bricks, planks and slate to repair the machines that wore out from all the flax making! What fun! And that's just the basic crafting. It just got worse after that. I don't know how anyone stuck it out for the game to finish (when the pyramid was built).
I played WOW during the beta and to be honest I thought it was a major improvement over EQ and a lot more fun. But the same grind soon becomes apparent by level 10 or so. I haven't tried EQ2, but I did try SWG for a free trial and I was convinced that it Verant had spent even more time ensuring you spent time grinding than even in EQ.
Now I've decided that I'm not going to grind in any game. If I can't enjoy myself during a spare hour, then the game isn't worth playing at a
The solution for this is simple. I had a friend of mine who was addicted to EQ (I was too) -- As I realized what an incredible timesink this was, I planned on quit playing. I knew my friend never would, however. What I did may be considered "evil" by some. Here is the story: Me and a friend both had level 60 characters on EQ. We always played together - officers in the same guild, we raided and quested together (and played alts together). I knew that when I quit, he never would. I had a girlfriend, and more interest in going to do stuff in the real world. My friend had no interest in anything at all except EQ. Here is what I did. 1. I installed a physical keylogging device on his keyboard at his house. 2. I got his EQ password. 3. I deleted all his characters. He called me up the next day and said all his characters were deleted. I feigned suprise: "No kidding? Wow. Well, I was thinking about quitting anyway." He responded with: "Don't quit man -- I'll get my characters back!" So I said ok. He spent about 3 days with the Verant tech support getting his characters reinstated. He changed his passwords and virus scanned his box (I think he even formatted it). He got his characters back, called me up, and we started playing again. (A side note: those three days he was more social than in the last 6 months) I felt bad, but I did it again. I had his new password (it was like 32 chars long, heh). I deleted all of his characters again. He called me up and said it happened again. I felt bad. I knew he was hurt. I knew it would help him, in the long run. What followed was a month of the same thing happening. Verant got pissed off because they thought he was messing with them. He got pissed off because he know he didn't delete his characters. In this time where he could not play, I decided to quit completely. He said it was his fault, that his account was messed up, but I said it was probably for the best anyway. Over this month we spent a lot of time out, went on a weekend hiking trip, ate dinner out, etc. He finally gave up his quest to play EQ again. I told him it was fate or something. To this day, he doesn't know it's me. We've drifted apart since then (We were stationed in the same place in the military) -- I'm sure he's playing WOW or whatever else now, but I am happy that I helped him at least a little bit. Maybe I'll call him someday and tell him the truth... ;)
I may be repeating what others have said, but this is the type of addiction where you have to admit the problem to yourself first and then decide to deal with it. For me, it was the first release of Ultima Online. I trained up my character while I slept with some scripts and I found I was missing work a lot to play intead. I even missed an entire week due to the 'flu'. I finally realized that I am a person that cannot ever again play MMORG. I uninstalled the software and then literally destroyed my disks. I still end up playing online games such as BF1942 (haven't played the new one yet), but I am able to manage that, because it doesn't suck you in quite as much as role playing. I suggest you avoid games where you befriend 'real' people and instead go out there to the real world and befriend real people. Oh.. and now I have a girlfriend... no REALLY!
Uninstall Windows, install Linux. Yes. No kidding. At least that was what I did to get out of game addiction in general. Though he can use emulator for certain popular games, but that's not as good as running hte games natively in Windows. Or to be more effective, don't install GUI, just leave him using CLI.
Complete the game and the addiction goes. That is, kill Nefarion. The amount of time spent having to do this is a lot, but once done you realise that you've pretty much done everything the game offers. AQ40 is just the same thing, slightly different scripted AI, recycled monsters, drops only marginally better. Infact I'm pretty sure the WoW subscription figures will start to drop quite significantly in the 2nd half of this year.
The scripted AI in WoW really is so simplistic I don't know how you can't get bored of it. PvP isn't much better either. Give WoW castle seiges/guild land ownership seems to be the only way forward in my view.
Nothing costs nothing
Nothing helps better against every man's interest as a girl :P
If he already has one ... hmm, then others might throw in some ideas.
Some people who knew they had to do something important just asked themselves to get banned from the gathering channels, but they realized the problem.
-Filik
A great many of the posts mention things like "get a job you enjoy" or "a shitty job contributes to the problem."
All joking aside, what do you tell someone who has an unhealthy obsession with his job (even if he doesn't particularly enjoy it?)
Wait another five to ten years when someone creates a fully immersive, photorealistic VR-Style game in which people can assume God-like powers over a game world modeled after our own, or Middle Earth, etc. I shudder to think of the people who would literally waste away playing something like that rather than dealing with real life.
I was addicted to Ultima Online for a 6 month period starting a couple weeks after it was released. For that period of time, I would spend a minimum of 8 hours a day playing the game. The rest of my waking hours were spent thinking and scheming about the game, and most of my time at work I spent reading and contributing to various UO related websites. I wouldn't even say it was a positive experience, with all the grief and the lag and the server crashes, I found myself frustrated 24/7. Well, maybe 20/7, since I did sleep a LITTLE bit.
And one day, I just decided to quit. I've been unable to find it, but I was writing an article somewhere about the life of a UO player and by the time I had finished it I realized what a mess my life had become as a result of that game and decided to end it. I quit and didn't look back. It seemed to be an addiction, but not a dependancy. I didn't miss it once I'd quit, but I don't think it was something I could have handled in moderation, and for that reason I refuse to touch any MMORPGS no matter how much fun someone tells me one might be.
Ultimately, the decision was entirely mine, and certainly not suggested or motivated by anyone else. In fact, most of my friends at the time played the game and tried to discourage me from quitting. I really wouldn't know how to get someone else to quit, other than to find an activity that is enjoyable enough that it draws them away from the game, but you have to get them away from the game in both body and mind long enough for a competing interest to take hold. It's quite possible he realizes there's a problem and is just unsure about how to deal with it. You might have a tough sell recommending quitting, but it can be done.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
The problem is not that he is addicted to the game... but rather that the rest of his life isn't satisfying.
Forget about the girlfriend idea. As someone else has already pointed out it won't work because they wont' have anything in common, unless you find one of those fabled gamer chicks & are willing to pass her on.
The odds are he is probably lacking in social skills as well as a result of 'living' in the game. You need to engineer safe social situations where he will feel comfortable. Taking him out to 'hit the hot nite-spots' will most likely make him uncomfortable as he will not be able to relate to the people there.
Probably the most important thing is to tell him that you are worried. He probably is aware that there is a problem & is avoiding it by playing more & more. Do not tell him that he needs to stop playing WoW, because he doesn't need to stop. He just needs to be helped getting everything else in his life back up to standard.
Does he play other multi-player games? Do you know people who do LAN games regularly? Introduce him to other gamers. One of the biggest holes you can fall into is thinking that you are worthless & that other people won't like you & for your friend meeting people who aren't gamers will probably reinforce this idea in his mind. So get together with other gamers & get his mind off WoW for a bit so he can remember that there are other fun things too.
Remember it's not that he is addicted to WoW, its just that nothing else seems worthwhile. You need to remedy that. And he needs to know that you want to help, and that no-one else needs to know. Shame will not help him.
I have a friend who is hopelessly addicted to the american dream. He has a house a mortgage and 50k of debt on his credit cards, he and his wife (she is worse off than he) go to places like 'the mall' and 'movie theatres' where they get pumped full doses of their own delusional expectations about life.
OH NOES HE PLAYS ONLINE, THAT'S NOT NORMAL.
what's normal? how big is your cock? do you fart in your sleep?
we are all sheep and tools, the only problem here is your own arrogance at pushing your dogmatic view of 'normal' on other people. Pay attention to your own life and stop finding problems in other people.
Failing that, jack his account and sell it.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I have some good news, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.
I played Tibia a lot and I was also hooked, but fortunatelly the Tibia community was nice enough to be full of player killers, so after been killed at Level 30 and losing around 30000 XP points I lost my interest in the game. :)
:P )
Unfortunately I started to code one myself, so I am again hooked ( at least I can say this looks like a job although my girl doesn't agree
I can stop at any time, I swear!... Just... let me do one last run, okay?
If he likes combat, tell him to take up fencing. If he likes being a healer, hey, there's a whole medical career waiting for him.
Maybe they will lose their jobs, marriages, and friends, but if they're still happy, why does it matter? Isn't it better to be unemployed, alone and happy than rich, married, and depressed?
It matters because that contentment is temporary. Ten years later, when they've failed out of college and can't get anything other than a dead end job due to no qualifications and a string of firings due to not showing up at work, their future is going to look incredibly miserable. I have little sympathy for people who ruined their lives by having only looked at their immediate happiness instead of their long-term happiness and success.
Money won't make you happy, but poverty will make you miserable. People who can be happy while alone and penniless are rare in this world, and they're never people who are so wrapped up in some material trapping (like a game or booze or drugs) that they can't function in the real world.
Interventions always make the people involved angry and upset, but it's worth it to keep someone you care about from ruining their lives.
Quite honestly, having a chance to play a game, interact with people all over the world, roleplay, and gank the hell out of a bunch of noobs is a LOT more important to me...
I already didn't like you for suggesting that people be left to rot for their short-term happiness, but you're also a griefer who gets off on making the game miserable for new players too? What a prick.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I do play WoW but I do not consider myself addicted to it in any way. But I once played Everquest for 5.5 years and that is one game I could say I was addicted to. It took some guts but I basically had to give away my items, cancell my account, and finally I threw away my cd's + keys. Once the trash man came by to pick it all up I knew it was all over. I have since found that I enjoy my work and I picked up a programming hobby to keep myself busy where-as I would normally be found playing games. Although I play WoW, I limit myself to 2-3 or sometimes 4 hours a day but not until I finish whatever had to be done before hand: IE, work, dishes, shower, etc...
Try and get yourself out with friends, go see a movie, or have a sit down dinner. If all else, go play some old console games that will bore you =)
I don't think you've ever been, or ever seen, someone who was truly addicted.
A friend of mine was dating a girl who got strung out on the online version of Finaly Fantasy. By the time they broke up she'd lost her job, and was neglecting her daughter. Personal hygenie had become optional, and she started answering to her characters name in conversations.
I know i've never seen anyone go that far over TV or a book. I don't think it happens very often, but when it does it IS serious.
For all of you people who think playing a videogame cannot be as addictive as drugs or can't really do harm..remember..a Korean recently DIED of exaustion playing WOW.
http://news.com.com/2061-10797_3-5825938.html
I think it is very important to not only stop the bad habit, but to also replace it with a good one. It is better for you to try to do something good, than to try to avoid doing something that's bad.
It is very difficult to just stop doing whatever it is you are addicted to, because a lot of times you are left with nothing else to do but think about how you wish you were still doing whatever it was you are trying to avoid.
When you stop a disruptive behavior and replace it with something else, then I think your chances for success are much greater. The thing is to find something that is rewarding, and also adds value to your life.
Some random examples, depending on what kind of things you enjoy (not saying that all of these necessarily add value to your life, but they all are time consuming, and can be very rewarding in a variety of ways):
learn a new technology. Like, if you haven't done so before, try building a website, or start learning linux, or etc.
Learn to play a musical instrument (one that is easy to get started on...like electric guitar, as opposed to something like tuba)
Build something, like a new end table, or a bookshelf, or whatever.
Take up fishing, camping, gardening, photography, etc
Do something to help other people, like habitat for humanity, a soup kitchen, etc
Read the Hitchhiker's Guide books again, or read the bible, or whatever you are into.
- Donny was a good bowler, and a good man.
Become a gold farmer or a leveler for hire!
Heck, back when I was doing it on EQ1 I was clearing almost 2K a week by leveling people using the bard circle exploit.
SEX! buy him sex! buddy if your a guy thats addicted to a video game chances are your not a big hit with the ladies! and it's sad but in most cases you've never been "with" a woman. so the answer is as simple as a hooker! or you can pay a girl to be his girlfriend for a while. let him get addicted to THE game, instead of A game ;)
Convince him to change his character name to CmdrTaco.
Or if that doesn't work, change it to "CmdrScriptBot". Walk up to large groups of people and say "Wassup? Impress! For Thanks You. Visual for best price V1agra, r V1c0d1n? mycheapfakedrugs.com."
"Alcohol... Well it can ruin people, but unless you drive drunk all the time its not going to kill you like meth, crack, or heroine ..."
W.C.Fields, my step-father, several news-worthy frat kids; to name some who have died as direct causes of ingesting alcohol.
I wasn't quite where this guy was, but I almost was. I decided to go hide in the main city, and tell everyone that the first person to find me would get everything I own. It wasn't as fun as I thought it would be, but at least I helped someone out (tons of items, and a lot of gold). I then uninstalled the game, shredded the paper with the serial number on it, and used scissors to cut into each of the cd's so that they would be useless. The only way I could ever play again would be to purchase the game again...which I wasn't about to do. I still miss the game to this day though...it really was fun. I still play other games, but no MMOs.
Take hammer. Smash his display device. Engage in discussion of why.
If smashing device does not yield any response (ie: subject continues to play game, perhaps by closing eyes and "visualizing" himself as his character), hit his head with same hammer. Take care to not do as much damage as you did to the display device. Then engage in physical discussion of why.
At least he'll be involved in a real struggle.
I used to play EQ a few hours every night. When I took off of work, I played all day.
Anyway, when my wife had kids, I became so involved with them, I had ZERO time to do this. I kept my accounts live for 6 months (although I never logged on once..)
I just realized what was really important in life.
Since then, I've tried SWG, WoW and even EQ2..I've liked the idea that you dont have to play that much to get that far...which is of course a myth... Its not the same. When you have little or no time to spare, you will get over it, because these games require ALOT of time to accomplish anything.
Maybe your friend needs to hit bottom, before s/he realizes this.
See ya. Can I have your^H^H^H^Hhis stuff?
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
So use them. His parents? One of his friends? Doesn't matter.
/that/ thing) to procrastinate. Probably even a lot of the above, since reading a book is a fairly short time commitment compared to a game of Civ or playing wow.
Frankly the best bet would be cold turkey (if he can't stop to do things he needs to, he needs to stop period), but that may not be an acceptable path in this situation -- it is very hard to stop period if your friends are all playing and talking about a game.
I've been playing MMOs for a long time now, but I don't consider myself addicted: when I hit cases where I need to put the game away and do Real Work (tm), I've never had a problem doing so. Playing Asheron's Call though all of grad school (well, relativly speaking) I dropped it at least twice for long streches -- once was a bad semester TAing, and the other was working on and finishing my master's thesis. 4-6 months each time, when push came to shove I saved $10 a month. And once the crisis time was over, I could go back and enjoy playing it with friends again.
If I'm procrastinating on some other around the house work, it isn't an addiciton to wow, it's procrastination. If I wasn't playing a MMO you can be sure I'd be doing something else (reading a book, playing a single player game, checking mail, web putzing, taking a walk, even working on another thing I need to do as long as it isn't
Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
I've been down the game addiction road before. I've also known quite a few people who had similar problems. All of us seemed to have the same obsessive/compulsive tendencies. Making that character, game or whatever just a bit stronger, or a little more "perfect" can take over you whole mindset.
I was addicted to FPS's for some time, then when the "buzz" from that wore off, I started getting into modding, which demands an entirely new level of precision and flawlessness to strive for.
It took a divorce from my wife to wake me up, and as I recovered over the past few years, we got back together. Hopefully, your friend won't require anything so severe to slap him to his senses.
My advice is to find something that gives that "buzz" response, but requires being physically around other people. It's very hard to get into that trance-like state of compulsion for just "one more {..x..}" when you have your friends around you. Just something as simple as switching from a PC game to a side-by-side console game you play with your friends next to you on the couch could do the trick.
I agree that MMOG addition should not be compared with chemical additions.
This happened to a co-worker. Not a huge addiction, but he admitted to us he had a problem. He did miss a few days, but he was a great IT worker, always delivering.
I asked him "How many hours a week do you spend on your MUD?" he counted quickly and answered "45 to 55". I then commented that he could get a second job, double his salary and retire at 40. Or learn the piano or to play golf, or get a second girlfriend. We spent an hour enumerating all the useful, and not so useful things he could do instead.
A week later it was over. Each time he played the pleasure was tinted by far better dreams than killing the next monster and finding the next treasure.
For the love of Pete, do NOT try the girlfriend tactic. My experience is that girlfriends make you want to play WOW more!
Personally, I play wow to get away from the reality of everyday life. One of those pieces of everyday life is my girlfriend. Do the deductive reasoning there and realize that I play wow to get away from my girlfriend /clap. I've been /y about playing this game too much and about getting out of bed right after she falls asleep just so I can run off to the computer room until 2AM. I also get /y for buying more hardware to have more fun playing the game, but it's fine when she goes and spends at least $25 each week getting her nails done.
I'd say get yourself a dog if you feel the need to provide yourself with companionship, but I just got a Chocolate Lab puppy, Cloey, in December and she always needs to go outside at the wrong time! /nosepick Cloey
I know, it's harsh, cliche, and flamebait, but honestly, it worked for me.
;)
Harsh, cliched and flamebait.
Kids wearing black and listening to heavy metal is a cliche.
To wear black and listen to heavy metal is cliched.
Also pretty passe, but let's not go there
My history is something like this: enter university, do great. Find out about MUDs. Stop studying. Mistake: lie to parents about study results. Play MUD for three years, while the RL problems and the lies pile up. Stop playing. Finally confess to parents a year later. Spend next three years in a bad depression. Find a good psychologist. Spend next three years rebuilding some self confidence. Eventually, actually find a job and actually finish study. End result: 10 years mostly lost to MUD.
Could anyone have helped, early on? No way, I ignored those people. Besides, all my friends played too, and we were having tremendous fun (really! and it's where I learned how to code well). When not thinking about real life, and the pile of two years worth of mail I didn't dare to open.
If he's like me, he's feeling guilty about missing work and escaping from the guilt by playing more WoW. It's a death spiral. Almost everybody eventually gets out, but it can take years.
But, there is still hope. Are you people (his RL friends) also friends with him in game, ie on Teamspeak together? Then step 1 is to stop playing. All of you. He won't stop to visit you and see you playing; nor can you send him back to a RL where his friends aren't available much because they're playing a game he can't play. And if you don't quit, you'll just be talking about the game when he's around... So stop playing yourself, first. It's only a game to you, right? So that shouldn't be a problem.
Second, be very blunt to him. He needs to quit. At this point, he may choose to ignore you and avoid you from here on. If so, it's out of your hands.
Third, give him a good alternative - fun in real life. I prefer getting board games, booze and a bunch of people around a table regularly. Some girls too (mostly to improve the atmosphere, mixed company is more fun). Or do some outdoors stuff, or whatever... I volunteered for a student bar. Just make it seem worthwhile for him to give up his in game social relations.
And hey, at least it's not heroin. It's slightly cheaper and usually doesn't leave him dead at the end of the ride. It could be worse...
I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
Did you say you thought you dropped out of college?
"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)
You misused a word, there.
"As an anecdote I got called to a narcotic induced MVA of a respectable professional who said he'd been using for 25 years"
Respectable, when applied to people, has a definite meaning. It means living up to a certain moral standard, which this man was not. (Whether you agree with the standard is irrelevant.) It should not be used to imply what people think of a person.
What you (hopefully) meant was respected, which word does convey the general opinion of society about a person.
My father is absolutely obsessed with golf, and hits the course or driving range several times a week for hours on end. He will typically spend most of the weekend at the golf course. He also often reads golfing magazines and watches golf on TV. Sometimes he and his friends will even leave work early, or skip work entirely to play golf together.
He's spend hundreds of thousands of dollars visiting different golf courses, buying golf equipment, golfing related artwork and posters, and of course the high country club membership fees.
Even so, nobody has recommended intervention for him, despite the fact that he spends what some may consider an unhealthy amount of time playing golf. Could it be that it is merely socially acceptable to play golf? When he and his friends skip work to play golf, they often call it a team building exercise and expense it. When he first started golfing heavily, the rewards came at a fast pace. He went from shooting something like 120 to under 100 very quickly. Getting his scores down to 80 took a bit longer. Since then, making small improvements to his game take much longer than that. Sounds sort of like an MMO....
Am I suggesting my father needs to quit playing golf? Hell no. It is a hobby he has enjoyed for years.
Some people are obsessive about their favorite sports teams, some people spend a lot of time with fantasy football leages, golf, tennis, etc. Some people prefer EQ or WoW. However, MMOs aren't as socially accepted, so we see a bunch of sensationalist stories about some idiot who decided to play for two weeks straight and then died of exhaustion, or who lost his job because he decided to skip work repeatedly in preference of video games. People have do this crap with other hobbies, and they just get written off as idiots by society.
... he spent 2 weeks downloading torrents and lagging me to death. At first I got pissed and kept pulling his cable out of the switch, but eventually I conceded.
I've been in a similar situation, and I found a solution that worked for me.
I initially started by playing World of Warcraft trial while in school, and I would skip a lot of days due to this addiction. I was forced to stop due to my lack of a credit card, but after I moved out I quickly acquired one and starting playing this game. A few days after my second month of play started, a old high school buddy of mine dropped by, and we are talking about old times and our latest life developments. When he asked what I had been up to, I simply stated: "Well, I got to work, I get home, I play World of Warcraft, and I repeat." While this schedule had exceptions that were for the better, I still clearly realized how this game was consuming my soul. I cancelled the account the next day, even though this meant I was paying for a month that I wasn't going to use.
A few months later, I got another urge to play World of Warcraft, which was generally when I had some time off between semesters, and I was doing some web development work at home. I played the game for another month, and then I ended up quitting again, realizing once more that this game is a completely unhealthy addiction. My friends helped shake out of my trance yet again, and I hoped this impulse would not return. Then I got an idea: I connected to private servers that were so accelerated that they would allow me to see all the end-game content, and thus, ruin the game. I stepped into a server, and a player ran by, stopped, handed me 50,000 gold, and continued on his way. 50,000 gold. I bought 8 epic mounts (yes, even alliance), and I explored high level instances and killed all the bosses on my own. I don't feel the need to play this game anymore, because I am bored to death of everything. I would switch mounts every minute and run around with a full set of legendary items. That, and my character was powerful enough to solo bosses. What a great way to ruin World of Warcraft.
Basically, my best suggestion would be to look to your friends for encouragement, but mostly, to realize that everything you are doing in the game will not advance you in your real life, and thus, it is time lost. As a friend of mine playfully put it: "Why don't you learn to be a tailor in real-life?"
I don't blame him and maybe that is the safest place for him at this time. Myself I am finding it increasingly difficult to get up in the AM and face the mounting chaos, unethical twofaced corporate culture, and the lies upon lies that impact our lifes daily. To retreat into game land where the rules are fixed and one can exist in a safe finite environment seems a natural thing. At a certain point he will have to come back out and make some bread to support himself, but at this time it may be the safest place for him. Why impose your thoughs, opinions or lifestyle on him?
First off, if it impacts his physical health, then make him aware of that. Don't beat a dead horse, though. If he is healthy (like any geek really is, asthma, algeries etc) then let it alone for a while. Your concern for a friend is noble as all hell, but in the end, it's his choice. I have lost friends to all kinds of addictions--alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex/porn. Some made a comeback and came around and didn't let it win. Others are still on the path to destruction and can't stop. It will suck if they die, but who am I to dictate the quality of life to another? In the end people are always evolving, growing, or not... but I have found that friendships have a time and a place, in some cases time runs out... In the end you are a good person for caring.
Also, IMHO, no one should get any points for replying to this topic. I came with nothing, and will be happy to leave with it.
Sig Hansen?
I don't waste my time trolling through hundreds or even thousands of replies, especially dumb ones that seem to prevail, but here is a good link for On-line Gamers Anonymous if no one has posted it yet. I hope it helps!
http://www.olganon.org/
Avoid AA-type pseudoreligious programs. They have been proven not to work (no flames, please, go google the study yourself).
Yeah, I think I better! I am not involved in it myself, not having that kind of problem, but I know lots of people, some close (as in family), that has been helped and alcohol/drug free for many years thanks to AA and NA.
Now I have to call these people up and tell them that someone on Slashdot told me about a study I could search Google for that in fact proves that it didn't work.
Maybe you should Google for some success stories and see if there might be two sides to a story? Maybe this rumoured study of yours was asked for, maybe even financed by someone with another idea? There's a lot of benefits to being viewed as a succesful curator of these kinds of illnesses (as proven by the fact that the scientologists are recruiting that way). And studies have a long history in almost any subject of proving and counter-proving almost anything.
In short, I don't know shit about what program is the "best", but I've seen AA work and work well, even though it does seem a bit too religious for my taste.
Spine World
I agree, I used to play games back when they were fun (KQ3, FF1, FF2, Phantasy Star 2, etc), and these sucked up quite a bit of time, but hey, I was about 11.
Now, I play Halo or some of the other modern games (yes, Halo isn't a MMORPG, blah), but these games don't have the same appeal. The game shouldn't be about the UI, but about the story and the game play. Plus, for some odd reason, I get nauseous after playing some of these games on a big-screen TV.
There are plenty of things to be addicted to -- MMORPGs, TV, porn, work, alcohol/drugs, cars, etc. Once you get past the point of something being a 'hobby', then it's a problem, and you should try to recognize that. My rule of thumb is probably "if you miss work for [INSERT ADDICTION], then it's gone too far".
(see how I brought that post back on-topic?)
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
If you really care about him, you and your friends will continuously rotate corpse camping duty as members of the opposing faction!!!!!one!!oneone
Once upon a time as a lad in high school I was addicted to dungeons and dragons. My life revolved around it, I skipped school to go play it and I spent many of my waking moments writing new characters. Then I got a girl friend. Life changed forever. Get your friend a girl that appreciates nerds, they exist I swear.
If you stop caring about Tier 1 and Tier 2 lvl 60 gear, raiding 24/7/365 to get all the purples and some orange, you have a lot more time for real life.
I got up to 60 and couldn't muster up the obsession to get all my lvl 60 gear, and instead made a couple of alts and started bringing them up slowly. Sometimes I don't do anything but train up fishing for two hours and that's it.
Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to conviction
I got to level 60 (with Malakusen, dwarf warrior) and it dawned on me what a fucking hassle it would be for my 60 to be even remotely on par with other level 60s. And it was such a pain in the ass to get good groups and raids together for the quests I had to accomplish, much less actually going after my gear. Fuck that, I said to myself, and I played my alts. Lot more fun to bring a character up through the levels then it is to actually play at the higher levels, especially with a lvl 60 to send gold and trade mats to them. Now I've got a 42 rogue and a 22 druid on that server, and a 22 hunter and 18 warlock on another server.
Of course, since moving, and with my computer not getting here for another 26 days, and with me going on vacation shortly thereafter and therefore not seeing a point in getting signed up again for internet and WoW, I've broke the habit the easy way. Unavailability.
Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to conviction
I mean, really! I'm sure there's a girl you could ask that would give it to him. Maybe a good rattling would break him out of it. Y'know, kinda often, away from the game, maybe even a hot guy, or something. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
I realize I'm addressing an athiest forum, but the God part is: One admiting to God and themselves they have a problem. Asking for his strength in overcoming whatever it is that got them into trouble in the first place. And last, yes changing the individual so that they're a better person inside. But note that the individual has to take the first step, and that is very much an act of self-responsibility.
Science you, with your science and your logic! Such reasonable thought has no place here! Seriously, it's not nearly sensational enough. We need to see BIG SCARY HEADLINES about how COMPUTER GAMES are causing OUR NATION'S CHILDREN to become ADDICTED TO MOOD-ALTERING CHEMICALS like DOPAMINE and ENDORPHINS.
Then later we can run a story about how RUNNING is causing OUR NATION'S ATHLETES to become ADDICTED TO MOOD-ALTERING CHEMICALS like DOPAMINE, ENDORPHINS, and ADRENALINE, often resulting in PAINFUL LEG INJURIES and even HEART ATTACK.
Sensational!
Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to conviction
Some of these comments are making me sick! I can't begin to comprehend how someone can rationally justify a game becoming a core part of someones life.
A video game is a pastime or even simply entertainment. Neither of these validate the compulsion, the addiction.
Sure, your not addicted. Then try stopping for a few weeks. What's that, you can but you don't want to? Do it anyways. If you can't, your an addict, plain and simple.
Now the other aspect of socializing is part of human nature. I'll admit though, I'm personally very anti-social. But I try my best and press on. I was bed ridden for weeks because of panic and anxiety disorder, so I do know completely the pain of social situations. Sure, I still have problems, but the difference between my problems and yours? I admit they exist and I make people aware of them. When friends around me know about my problems, they're much more willing to help me battle my demons.
The sad thing is, the ball is already in your court. Many of you have friends and family already noticing things and are willing to help. It takes a strong person to accept that help.
I've seen friends have to give up on loved ones because of gaming addictions. A close friend right now is battling with his wifes addiction to WoW...
C'mon guys wth is wrong with you nubs, don't you know it takes dedication to level 60 and start the end game. EPIC Loots baby!!!! You nubs that have to work, or have so called "lives" know nothing about epic loots, pshaw this forum is filled with non epic nubs. Whine, whine and quit the game DE your stuff because you can't take BWL nubs. Waaaaa im gonna quit the game because I think i have no life, well mabe that has nothing to do with the game but rather the fact that you are actually a nub at life too. You can sit here and blame the game, blame addiction, blame life, the world and everything in it - but whats the real reason you hate the leets, simple your all non epic nubs.... Me FTW > Nubs.
Have an intervention...
Get him on a 12 step program.
.: 2+2 = PI SQRT(1+N)
I've always wanted to be a blacksmith
I can't survive as a blacksmith in real life
so I'm an electrical engineer to earn money
I use money to play WoW, where I pretend to be a blacksmith
oh the irony
how do you help someone who got "friends" who thinks they know better how he should live?
> Just like drug addicts!
>
>Oh, wait, that doesnt work.
The difference is, you can destroy your life through drug addiction, lose everything, and still satisfy your addiction. You can be completely homeless, go steal something or trade sex for drugs to get a quick high.
But I think it would be a lot harder to lose everything (meaning everything you need to consistently play WOW - a home, a computer, broadband access, and a subscription) and then do something quick and dirty to satisfy your WOW addiction. I don't think you can go steal a car stereo or two and set yourself up to play WOW again for any length of time.
In other words, it doesn't take a stable life situation to be able to sustain a drug addiction. I think it takes a significantly more stable life situation to be able to sustain an online gaming addiction.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
You should. And you should also tell the people in most other recovery programs that it doesn't work: virtually every rehab program works in exactly the same way that AA works.
The key to AA working is simple: you have to realize you have a problem and need help.
If you don't, it won't work. Nor will any other rehab program.
The numbers on AA proper can be misleading, because many drunk drivers are sentenced to 'diversion' programs that mandate AA attendance. Without the actual acceptance that one has a problem, this part of the sentence is completely pointless. For-money treatment has lower recidivism rate for the simple fact that people usually actually want treatment. (Most are paying through insurance, but depending on copay and deductible on your insurance that does weed out a lot of people who are just going through the motions to appease a judge.)
AA doesn't require the 'Higher Power' be God or a god. It can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you accept that the world doesn't revolve around your own self-interests. Make it Humanity and they'll have no qualms with that.
I'm currently in the same position as your friend. I'm not going to listen, however, to one single advice posted on this forum. No one ever wants to feel that they're doing something wrong - even when deep down inside, they may feel something's amiss. Here's my advice -> trick your friend. Its the old saying, if you can't beat him, join him. Get a WoW account, and play a few times with him. Encourage him to open up via his alternate personality, and perhaps then you may find the root of whats keeping him addicted. Go on a few raids, or adventures with him, and build his trust. Once you have that, it will be much easier to associate real life things with WoW? For example, one day you can take him to the park and ask him to hit that ball as hard as an Tauren Warrior. It will easier for him to make that transition from WoW to real life, and learn to prioritize. This way, his real friends won't be the ones looking through the glass window critiqueing him - they'll be the ones standing by his side against the horde. And he'll realize again that his real friends/life are much more interesting than his virtual friends/life because there's so much more you can do in real life than in WoW. For example, ask him to try swimming past the Veil Sea off Menethil Harbor. He'll soon realize he can't because the game ends there, lol. And then ask him to compare that experience to swimming in south beach in lots of women. ;)
The point is, when will we ever learn, humans don't react positively to, "You're not suppose to do this."
How am I handling the addiction? If it wasn't WoW, it would be something else. Oh heck, I fell sex addiction coming on again! doh!
You take away from him. You leave him alone, and wait until he notices the vaccum. Hopefully this will occur before he is fired. If his old tried-and-true support network comes a tumblin' down, he'll soon become more concerned with what he's lost, rather then raiding UBRS for his class chestpiece for the thirtieth fucking time.
All you're saying is very insightful and true, so we can aggree on that very quickly.
Humans do indeed learn, no arguments there. (And actually most animals "learn" or at least form reflexes. That's why we learn in school about this guy called Pavlov and his dog.) So, yes, humans can learn easy or "sure" ways to achive a result (be it how to get some quick fun or how to get groceries from the nearest supermarket), and some can get stuck in a rut doing that easy and guaranteed thing.
And yes, WoW does take pushing the players' buttons to an art form. It's taken every single observation about what makes people stay on a MMO even _after_ the fun stopped, e.g., "but I'll lose my level 60 mage" or "but I'll lose all my online friends and guild-mates", and refined that to incredible extremes. E.g., if on other games you were just worried about losing your friends, now your friends actually _need_ you for those 40-man raids. They start messaging you that they need a healer for MC. I.e., Blizzard took it to the extreme where you can (depending on inclination or personality) even feel like you've let someone down if you don't log on.
It's very complex indeed.
But in the end that's the whole point: it's a very complex social and psychological issue, not just a case of the "auugh, they're addicted to dopamine, which is, like, a drug! They're junkies!" bullshit being waved around. That's all that annoys me: the drug-scare bullshit. It's just a bunch of falsehoods and non-sequiturs whose only merit is that it makes for very easy propaganda, once everyone has already been indoctrinated that drugs are evil. It just requires a bit of sleight of hand, and voila, every single fun activity can be now mis-presented as drug addiction.
I have nothing against it if someone wants to tackle the real issues that you've mentioned. The learning, the reluctance to throw away some time investment, the social ties, etc. Sure, go ahead. But dopamine isn't explaing any of those.
Worse yet, the dopamine scare paints an image that's outright counter-productive if taken to its logical conclusion: oh, those guys are addicted to a drug, let's help them go cold turkey on that. And let's not give them a different fun source instead, because that would still give them the same drug, if from another source. And it just doesn't work that way.
That's basically all that I was trying to say there.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
As a friend it is your job to riducle such behavior to the point of disgust bordering the edge of depression. here's what you do!
/point /laugh /say rip into him for being a loser on the brink of loosing his friends and his job. dont hold back any punches your goal is to rib and jab him to the point that you challenge him to go out and leave WoW. Like a Dare only far more humiliating.
1. Login to said MMO, find your friend.
2. target your friend
3.
4.
5. repeat step 4 till you get a response.
6. When he asks what you're laughing at in general/guild chat/ or
If that fails then invite yourself over or feel free to throw a party at his place. Do this often enough and it'll wean him away from it. If he proves to be stuck to his computer, a group of friends must stand by his computer and ridicule him some more. Your goal now becomes to make it impossible for him to play for extended durations. If you do this right he'll feel so ashamed and disgusted that he'll start to take some time off.
No time for spellcheck gotta get back to WoW, Cheers!
I personally find that mockery helps....
Needless to say, when the port was turned back on, the Evercrack addictions came back in full force.
Personally, from seeing where the Evercrack addicts ended up after they quit, I think the addiction is really a symptom of problems that only trained medical professionals can help.
Perhaps the best thing you can do for your friend is guide him to a professional. (And accidentally cut his cable connection an hour before each appointment!)
No, I will not work for your startup
Smash his computer to tiny pieces. With a hammer.
Any time he gets another, smash that too.
Unless he's stinking rich, you should be able to make it financially impossible for him to continue fairly quickly.
As a former World of Warcraft Grand Marshal who doesn't even log in anymore I can just say two things:
1)Grow a dick.
2)I thought slashdot was for news/technology articles, not the interventions/social lives of your friends?
When i first loaded up WoW i was amazed and in love with this virtual world. I really got in to the fantasy of it, and it was a great escape. Like a really good book. Unfortutely after many hours of playing it became more like a job. I wouldn't even read quests anymore and get lost in the story line. Just search thottbott, find the goal of the quest, get my exp, rinse and repeat. Finally I realized i was no longer playing for fun anymore, i was only playing because I felt i had to, i had invested so much time into the game i needed to keep going. That did it for me. I cancelled my account and haven't looked back.
The Good Life
First of all, I would say the best thing your friend has going for him right now is that you and his other friends have noticed his problem and want to do something about it.
Not too long ago, I realized I was addicted to Everquest. Unlike your friend, it seems, I had not just realized the addiction (he very well might realize it) but also wanted to defeat it. I realized that I was using a game to replace feelings of accomplishment in "real life," neglecting my friends, my job, and my ambitions, and spending a LOT of money on ultimately meaningless 1s and 0s.
Like other posts have described, I took the "no turning back" approach: stopped playing cold turkey, posted my goodbye on the guild forum, and sold my character. This was intended to make it more difficult to get back into the game, as starting another character from scratch would have sucked -- although realistically, buying another high level one would be an easy option.
The real key to staying away from the game -- for me, at least -- is realizing that even if I turned it on for an innocent hour as a way to relax, I would soon become addicted again. I had to realize myself that there are other ways to get rid of boredom and the addictive nature of these kind of games simply made them not worth it for all the reasons described above.
Unfortunately, even if your friend can admit that "yes, I'm addicted," my experience is that he also needs to *want* to quit for it to become successful. I think if you and the rest of your mutual friends were to sit down with him and have an "intervention" of sorts, you may be able to trigger the want in him. You need to explain to him what it is you all see happening -- that he is shutting himself away, neglecting his friends, risking losing his job, etc. It may help to try to recognize what it is that makes the game so addicting for your friend. For me, I think it was the easy means the game provided to climb a social ladder (more and more powerful guilds) and accomplishing things (better stuff, more hit points, more mana, etc) and building the desire in your friend to try to gain this type of satisfaction outside of the game. Ask him where he realistically sees himself being 5 years from now. Will he be sitting in a dark room, playing this game, while the rest of the world has moved on? Remember, the goal here is not to attack him or to put him on the defensive, but rather to make him realize and acknowledge the negative things that are happening in his life as a result of his addiction and to want to end it.
If and when he agrees, I think completely quitting is the only way to go. Sell or delete the character. Delete the game from the computer and throw the CDs in the microwave (just have the fire extinguisher handy =), and close the account. Now, this is where you and your friends really need to step up. You need to be willing to help him replace that passtime with other social events. Take him out and shoot some pool, go to the bar, play cards, lift weights -- ANYTHING! Just keep him busy and inspired so he doesn't get the urge to start playing again.
Kudos to you and your friends for wanting to help him. Good luck!
Make the gamer sell his computer equipment and buy crack with the money... No more MMORPG addiction...
"But this one goes to 11!"
All drugs trigger the same pathways? Really? Heh. And here we had doctors thinking that Opioid and Cannabinoid transmitters and receptors, i.e., those involved in getting pleasure and addiction from morphin and marijuana respectively, were entirely different from each other, and from Dopamine. Or that they trigger completely different pathways (see how antipsychotics may inhibit the dopamine pathways, but won't block cannabinoid or opioid pathways), and are differently present in different parts of the brains. (E.g., why you'd need to eat several kilos of marijuana to overdose: because the centres that control vital functions like breathing have very little receptors for that, so they're very hard to influence.)
Or that even drugs that influence the same pathways, do so in wildly different ways. (E.g., that cocaine and amphetamines influence the dopamine pathways in completely different ways.)
Or that some drugs (e.g., morphine) really cause physical dependency (addiction), as in they actually cause long-lasting effects and changes to the organism, which in turn cause withdrawl syndrome when the drug is no longer present. _Not_ just some "oh, I just find it pleasant, so I'll do it some more" pleasure-seeking decision. While for others it is indeed just the reward seeking.
I.e., that there are some actual physiological effects as a reason of why morphin is considered more addictive than THC. Actual physiological changes, not some bullshit pseudo-science explanation about getting the reward faster.
But nah, you know better, because an addicted friend guessed so. Well, that has to count as an expert medical opinion. Just imagine how much money we all could have saved by asking your addicted friend, instead of letting real doctors research that stuff. (Heavy sarcasm there.)
Yes, there are certain types of people which get addicted or obsessive to anything. Your friend may have had a good common reason why he would seek escape from reality in anything whatsoever, rather than deal with reality. Or maybe your friend is (or maybe isn't, as it's impossible to tell from just one symptom) a psychopath. A lot of those exhibit exactly that kind of above-average propensity for getting addicted on drugs, alcohol and/or sex. (And a lot die from an overdose of one of the first two. Luckily it's not that easy to get killed by the third.)
But at any rate, concluding that because one person got addicted to all three, then all three must stimulate the same pathways... heh... it's just plain old funny. It's like concluding that because a candle, the sun and a lightbulb all give light, then there's no difference between chemical reactions, nuclear fusion and electrical phenomena.
And at any rate, deciding that a normal brain signal (present in all mammals) is some dangerous drug to be avoided... well, that's not even funny.
Here's some friendly advice, lemming: go actually read a bit on the topic before talking out the ass. Make sure you have any clue what you're talking about first. Doubly so before passing swift judgment on who's right and who's wrong.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I was addicted to WoW a few months ago and here's how I quit. I was picking up a few things at a store when I walked past Quake 4. Having played Quake1 religiously and enjoyed Quake3 casually, I picked Quake 4 up. One night when I was unable to log into WoW I fired up Quake 4 multiplayer. The next thing I knew it was last and I had to walk my dog before going to bed. Getting out of my computer chair I felt like fire was pumping through my veins. When I got outside I found myself running and jumping around like a wild man. For once I was actually able to keep up with my dog. Then I realized what had happened. Normally at this time I'd be finishing a very long WoW raid. My back and legs would ache and I'd feel tired. I realized the truth - WoW is boring as hell. I'd normally spend hours and hours in WoW, most of it waiting for something to happen. Waiting for the raid to fight the next group of mobs. Waiting for people to reconnect. Waiting for people to get back from being AFK. Waiting for my flight to land. Waiting for the zepplin to pick me up. Waiting for my horse to get somewhere. Waiting for a game of battlegrounds to start. In Quake 4 I wasn't waiting for anything. I didn't have time to wait for anything. It was...FUN!
With all the discussion about addiction and drugs in this article, one wonders what will happen to hireheaders in the future? The technology is here, if you wanted to you could build a set of electrodes and hook yourself up to eternal pleasure. I imagine there are some medical laws you might violate, but other than that what would society in general do about it? What if you went to work while jacked in? I bet most people could do any kind of work as long as they felt good about it. Maybe big business will just start requiring all their workers to wirehead to boost profits.
I started WoW early in the Beta phase, and played live up until just recently. Most of my Real Life friends played as well, and while we played at least 30-40 hours a week each, it wasn't getting in the way of work or anything.
Myself, I was in my second end-game guild, and we had finally beaten MC and Ony, and were starting on BWL (the highest content at that time, the silithus content wasn't release yet). Around that time, Blizzard announced the Expansion.
The Expansion was what finally made things click in my head. Here I was, with my main having been lvl 60 for in excess of 6 months, and with 3 Alts at 60. I was generally pleased with their equipment, and enjoyed bringing them out for raids/pvp/whatever. When the lvl 70 cap was announced, I realized that everything I had been focusing on for the last 6 months (since I hit the 60 cap) was for nothing. No experience gain, and all that "epic" gear I had was going to become useless.
It was like Blizzard had announced that they were going to cut 10 levels from all my characters, and force them to regrind back up and reraid for all my equipment all over again. Basically, they were going to roll-back 6 months of gameplay, since all the endgame content I had completed up to that point would now become worthless, and I would have to regrind a "new" endgame, which would exactly the same as we have now, but with different mobs and dungeons; no significant gameplay difference, just more grinding to get back to relatively the same place.
I then realized that the part of WoW I had enjoyed most was the first 30-40 levels. Really, I would have been happier if they had cut the level cap back to 39 like in the Beta, simply because that part of the game was MORE FUN. Of course, all my toons were over 40 by this point, and I had one for every class... so what was the point? Why was I still playing if I wasn't having fun? Its not like the phat lewt was the reason; that's just arbitrary, and has no meaning outside of the context of other players and the encounters.
I decided to take a month off and travel, get some reading done, and spend time with family. By the time the month ended, most of my RL friends had also quit, most of my close guild friends had quit, and I was so far behind in DKP that I was never going to be a meaningful raider again. It was easy to walk away at that point.
What I realized was that I hadn't been having fun for the last 6 months; what I had been doing was trying to recapture the fun I had experienced previously, the fun that had immersed in the game in the first place. And my recollection of that fun was so potent, I was willing to stand around in 40 man raids for 20 hours a week with almost no return on investment, and another 20 hours a week grinding mats and gold to pay for it. I was like a junkie paying through the nose for a fix, even though that fix ceased to be rewarding a long time ago, and all I could hope for was a critical success and a quick replay of the experience.
Everyone always says that MMOs are a waste of time; totally true, but when they are also fun, its not a problem. The problem comes when they cease being fun, but you keep playing because of the memory of that fun.
WoW was just the latest in a long string of MMOs I played (starting with EQ). At this point, I have no desire to ever play a game with a grind ever again.
I've been waiting to tell this story and this seems to be an appropriate venue.
I'm friends with a married couple. I'll call them Jack and Jill because one of them reads slashdot and I don't want to give the secret away.
Jack is a WoW addict. He works part time, plays 50+ hours per week. Is a member of a raiding guild and is always coveting that next purple, orange or whatever colored item.
Jill, his wife, is frustrated over his addiction. She bought an account just so she could spend a little more time with him. She leveled a character to 60 and occasionally raids but she enjoys RL more than the game and so resents having to play the game in order to spend time with her husband.
This is the part I thought was pretty cool.
Jill is the techie of the household and uses a linux based router/firewall/webserver/etc for local networking. As Jacks addiction grew worse she started checking out the ports used by WoW. Inititally she just started monitoring them in order to find out how much time he actually plays but later she realized she could throttle the connection (introduce lag) or block it completely (gee, the WoW servers are down again). The result is that when Jack has been playing WoW all day and Jill wants to go to dinner she either severely throttles the connection or cuts it completely. Jack thinks the blizzard servers are fscked up, wastes some time trying to log in and eventually gives up and joins Jill for dinner. Now Jill gets to occasionally go to dinner with Jack, to the movies, to a party. I kind of like it because I'm good friends with Jack and I get to see him occasionally now and then.
I'm not blind to the deception of this act. Yes it's kind of creepy, but so is not showering, playing wow for 20 hours straight with quick toilet breaks. While it doesn't get rid of the root problem of the addiction, it has prevented jack from completely losing all RL socialization.
That is correct. Most substances that are addictive -- e.g., morphin or alcohol or even cigarettes -- cause physiological modifications, in which the body gets used to higher quantities of a substance (or to having its receptors inhibited by some substance, or whatever) and may even basically be able to reach equilibrium only in its presence.
E.g., if you're a smoker, it won't just directly make you "happier", but it will inhibit the enzyme MAO-B in your brains, which in turns is responsible for breaking down Phenethylamie in your brains. Basically that enzyme is responsible for not letting you stay permanently happy that way.
You can alter that equilibrium in two ways. You can directly get some Phenethylamine, for example, from some foods, such as chocolate, but that pleasure won't last long, because MAO-B immediately starts destroying it. Most of it, in fact, before it even reaches your brains. Or smoking can momentarily all but completely deplete the enzyme that destroys it, raising Phenethylamine levels in your brains and making it last longer.
However, the body eventually adjusts its equilibrium for the new situation. I.e., if MAO-B is permanently in short supply, it will start producing more of it.
Now let's say you quit smoking.
MAO-B is no longer depleted by smoking, but it's still produced in excessive quantities and that in turn severely depletes your Phenethylamine in the brains. Which basically drives your mood all the way down. So you have a very physiological reason for the resulting withdrawal syndrome, not just missing the fun/pleasure/whatever of lighting up a cigarette. You're not just missing the good times of lighting a cigarette, you're actually in a bigger discomfort than someone who's never smoked in the first place.
By contrast, you can't really get addicted to chocolate or get withdrawal syndrome from it, although it's involved in the same chain.
That's one thing that all these "anything fun is drug addiction" scare-mongers seem to miss (in a long list of things they conveniently miss). Some substances actually cause physical addiction, while others are just things you do for fun. Cigarettes cause actual physical addiction, while chocolate is something you _can_ go without, much as it's nice.
Lumping it all together as one big "anything that people can get stuck on for fun is some dangerously addictive thing, so games/sex/whatever are just as dangerous as alcohol and heroin" is missing most of the point and underlying mechanisms. It makes for some good bullshit AA-type motivational speeches or propaganda ("oh, you're only doing it because you got used to the reward. You could quit if you wanted to") or some equally bullshit propaganda against anything you want to speak against ("oh, those poor gamers are just a bunch of junkies doing it just for the quick rewards, same as the alcoholics. It's just a scream for help, really.") But in the end it's missing the whole underlying mechanisms and fundamental differences by a mile.
And some don't even involve an influx of an external substance, making that link even more tenuous. E.g., unlike getting phenethylamine from chocolate, the dopamine response when doing something fun doesn't involve introducing anything from outside. It's just the way a perfectly normal brain works.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Cut his internet and/or sneak onto his router and block the ports used by WoW, about anything to hamper his playing WoW so he rediscovers the other things of life, including having a life (WoW not included). I know quite a few people that are caught between addiction and regular play.
from liver failure due to alcoholism. He was 32 years old.
Last year a coworker at my girlfriend's work was found dead in his apartment after he didn't come back from vacation. The cause was alcohol poisoning.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Thanks for the guidance, friend. You've inspired me to tell the world of my problem/weakness to arouse the nemesis to arrest me through the COURT.
When I was 12 years-old, I got my first arrection in seeing the scene of a movie "My Step-Mother is an Alien" starring Dan Aykroid (iirc). I just liked the female, not the bullshit. I kept my lower-body under the coffee-table and hoped none noticed my unhindered attention to the idiot-box we were all looking to. The errection is credited to the Showtime channel, not HBO; we had Cable television at the time. My erection died-down a bit, so I was confident to walk to the comfort of the washing-machine area to re-imbue my pajamas with some corrective robes. I gave no attention to my new-found friend.
When I was 14 years-old, I got my second erection after seeing two hot female real-estate ladies at the front-door. They were the middle-aged skanky business-skirt girls that I can't stop dreaming about; dirty-blondes, straight-white teath, and a pension for me Land. Per argument of the previous Slashdot article on people that wear pony-tails and blue-jean pants and flip-flop sandals, they would have killed my erection faster than flies on shit: so I am advocating that business-clothes are for people that want their erection to "get busy", while casual clothes are for people that don't want the foreplay of commerce and just want to work for a living. Back to the real-estate ladies: They knocked on the door, and I stared through the Window Blinds at them; they thought none was home, so they began redressing and re-arrainging one-another's clothing on my doorstep. I saw the sexy areas of their breasts, just barely above the nipples, with all that hot undergarment breastly-linnen clothing that hugs their womanhood firmly to their business atire. ahhhhh.
After that date, I began a rigorous search on Yahoo. Google wasn't in my vocabulary yet, so Yahoo was the most comfortable interface for my searching for: "barely nude" "legal real-estate agents". I got a few hits on pictures, but nothing that my awesome Pentium 150MHz computer, ATI 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV 16bpp graphics adapter, and 33.6KBps network connection could muse me with through Netscape. So then, I searched for "two real-estate agents" and "sex on the front porch"; I got some great hits! I looked at the scenery around the new-found splendors; a strange object that looked as an gelatin penis struck me as odd. Why didn't she want a man to get with her, or was the purpose to maintain a higher sex attitude without the lossy erection of the man getting in the way? Excellent idea, I thought: artificial dicks mean greater lengths of sexyness, eh? Guffah...
Over the time, of what seems like my childhood, nothing much more happened. I played Doom2, Warcraft2, Duke Nukem 3D, Death Rally, and when with my brothers we played Nintendo 64. Before all that, we played Nintendo 64 together. There is much better chance to become addicted when somthing is done in one's own comfort alone and is a stare decesis effort to accomplish the goal (such are Role-playing games unlike games that limit their scope within tolerance of great strategy, completing the game within 90 minutes or less, such as Doom or a strategy game as Warcraft or a racing game as Death Rally). Anything that holds an account for comparison of prior character would foster the greatest competitive market; comes now the addiction. I've never seen someone addicted to Pool, or Soccer, but I know Chess can be addicting if you don't play it with time in mind such as KungFu Chess on IGN.COM (I liked that game, written in Java if I remember correctly). I've lived a depraved life, mostly because everyone else never wanted me to explore the outside of the confines of my room; criticism without remedy is a disorder attributed to the world and of the world. My only thoughts are to avoid, because I know none of similar tastes and merits.
At the age of 17, I improved my abilities at the search engine. I searched for suggestive filenames and
It's easy to quit WoW. I've done it a hundred times :)
remember to loot and pillage before you burn!
WOW is a great game and I play a lot of it. But having been a level 60 for sometime, my interest is wanning. WOW offers this individual something he cannot get in reality. Is it friendship? recognition? There are obsessive compulsive behaviour traits - I have it too as I can game for days with little sleep. But once the job is done, I am done.
Your friend is getting something that compels him to behave like he does. What is it? If the hole in his real life is so large that it cannot be met expect in the cyberworld of WOW, left on his own he would ruin his life. Be his friend and be there even when his world is crashing around him. WOW is giving him something we and our society cannot provide. The two things we crave most (outside of the basic roof over our heads and food and clothing) are acceptance of who we are and recognition of ourself by others. Friendship is also what we need and I am assuming he has that as I am posting to his friend request to help him. Listen to him so you can help him.
Its only a game, really.
Format his drive, break his CDs, cut his ethernet connection, and replace his video card with one so crappy it can barely draw 1 polygon.
Nothing like forcing someone into quitting something cold turkey. If you care for this person, you will do it.
SIGFAULT
.. I need to spend 30% of the day to get rank 11 in a few weeks for a cheap epic mount.
-- Neminem laede, immo omnes, quantum potes, iuva.
I can sort of relate to this. For a few years, I played over 4 or 5 games at once. I played, DAoC (Dark Ages of Camolot), The Realm Online, Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, Asherons Call, and a few other small ones that I cant remember, I realized that this was costing over $60 a month, all paid for by my parents. They couldent afford it, but they couldent help it because I ask for absoutly nothing else. I never even asked for anything for christmas, or any other holiday. I say that I take only one drug now, Thats Ultima Online. I cant stop playing it. My life consists of this:
1. Wake up
2. Go to school
3. Get home and go stright to the computer from 3:00 - 11:00
4. Go to bed
5. Repeat
I will tell you what I plan to do, I cant do this now because I am only 14. I plan to get a job with EAGames, more specifaly I plan to work for Origin Systems Inc., a devision of EAGames that runs Ultima Online. Untill then I work on freeshards, although this provides no money, I run my own freeshard. I am almost positive that there are freeshards (or freeservers in this case) of WoW. He can own a freeserver of WoW and get donations out of it, but cant charge for playtime. I know this is available because people make thier living by owning freeshards of Ultima Online.
To sum my rambling up, I would just tell your friend to get a job playing games, specifically he can go to Blizzard Entertainment and see if he can get a job for World of Warcraft. This way he has a stable job, can support himself, and he can still play his game. This is not getting rid of the problem, as all of you guys have suggested, but simply improving it, turning his obssesion into someing useful, and important. There is not much more to say here, except that I hope this advice works for you.
- Drayvock
"Why care for only yourself, when you can care for others at the same time?" - Johnathan Howell