It's a reason to quit bitching that commercial software companies are giving away their shit for free. If they stripped the ads and shit out of AIM and Weatherbug, then charged $25 for it, who the fuck would buy it? In the Linux world, software is free. In the Real World(TM), it isn't. Deal with it.
I seriously don't think he knows a damn thing about Java other than "The virtual machine isn't Free." I think RMS is just slowly going insane. All that bear weight is sucking his brainpower.
(? Unstable)(? Why is that)
(. LISP is (over-parenthesised, and just (not pretty)))
(. (and Basic C) are relatively close to (regular speech))
Fuck, that made my head hurt. Anyway, LISP is just plain weird. Still, complaining about syntax is like complaining that a car is ugly. Who cares? It works.
Okay, so you have ONE application for Python to hang its hat on. I'm a fan of Python, but the amount of people using it is ridiculously small compared to Java.
Microsoft doesn't have a competeing language to C, doesn't want control of C, and basically doesn't give two shits about C. They want Java under their control because they know what a massive asset it is. See a bit of a difference here?
Guitar: $600-900 (not everyone plays PRS or Gibson)
Amp: $900 (head and 4x12 cabinet, used)
Mixing board: Unneccesary (venues provide them)
Mics: $60 each (Shure SM57's are cheap and plentiful)
Monitors: Unneccesary (provided by venue)
Keyboard: Unneccesary unless you have a keyboardist (that sounds like a stupid statement, but it isn't)
Lights: Unneccesary (provided by venue, and many venues won't allow outside light rigs)
Controller: Unneccesary (see above)
You're still forgetting that putting a band together isn't something you just decide to do overnight. I've been amassing gear for nine years. I have a TON of shit (several heads and cabinets, a good amount of recording gear), but I didn't buy it all at once. Fuck, for six years all I used was a shitty 2x12 Peavey combo.
You're on the right track, but your assumptions versus reality are a bit out of whack.
You're telling me that the 4 guys in my example are going to make $1750/year each? $3500 split 4 ways is $875.
Not $1750, $7000. I was saying $3500 was half of one guy's yearly income. A single guy on the road for most of the year doesn't need much money.
Do you really think an independent film can be made in a few days? Or that it can all be written, shot and edited in "off" hours?
Well, YES. It's just like any other DIY effort. You have to find the balance between making a living and making your art. With music that balance is more fucked because you have to be on tour 5-8 months per year to make a dent in the scene. You can film a movie in two or three weeks and be done for a year or more.
Great filmmaking, like all great art requires sacrifice and isn't something you just do on 3 sequential Saturdays and call it "done".
No, but it is something you could do in the average vacation time alloted you by any decent job (2-3 weeks per year, maybe more).
Earth to moron... by paying for the recording, duplication, and distribution of CD's, YOU ARE A LABEL. A 95/5 split is far worse than any label ever, and you're showing precisely how little you know about the subject by thinking that would be better than a label.
I mean, is $3500 on a couple of credit cards (which will be paid off by the CD sales themselves) worth having complete control over your music?
No, it isn't. Not when $3500 is half the money you're going to be making this year. Independent films are shot over a few days in a year. The directors can hold down steady, good paying jobs and still do what they want to do. That isn't possible for touring musicians. Unless you have a job that affords you weeks of vacation a year, you are hopping from job to job between tours trying not to get evicted from your shitty $200 a month apartment that you only spend two out of every six months in anyway.
My point isn't that it's "easy" to pay for it, just that it's not like there's absolutely no other way than selling your soul to a corporation.
Who mentioned anything about corporations or souls? We're talking about indie labels here. The kind that can go bankrupt if a CD fails to sell the 500 copies they need to break even. This is where the REAL music is made by REAL people, not the overblown fantasyland of Major Label World(TM). Labels like Relapse and Kill Rock Stars that are owned and operated by fans who happen to be able to fund some cool bands. There's no soul-selling involved.
Uh... no. Aside from people that have endorsement deals, nobody uses shit like that. The people that are total gearwhores and have that shit usually have the deadly combo of being endorsers and working at music stores (see Matt Pike). Been there, done that, bought the $1200 list price guitar for $400.;-)
Online stores are a joke. If you want any hope of selling CD's, you HAVE to have them on-hand at shows. CD's are impulse buys 99.9999% of the time, and you can't rely on those impulses to be there once you've packed the van and moved on to another city.
There are quite a few, but almost all of them you name (including Jello Biafra) have had label support at some point. There are some exceptions (Ani DiFranco is probably the best example), but they're few and far between.
Your last paragraph shows how little you know about what it's like for touring bands.
First, not all labels are corporations. The OVERWHELMING majority of labels are simply people that are involved in the local scene that have a bit of money. To these dudes, putting $3000 on a credit card and paying it off sometime soon is feasible. They can afford to go long-term because they know they'll get their money back.
But for the bands? Most of the bands out there have a hard time even making their rent. They have to find new jobs when tours are over, then quit them as soon as the next tour starts up. Vans are usually borrowed, sometimes they're owned by one of the band members. Equipment is something you have to have before you even consider touring. That's something you get out of the way before you hit the road. But once you do, money is tight. Putting $3000 on a credit card is out of the question. For a lot of these guys, that's a year's worth of rent.
Two shows a week? Uh... no. If you want to do stupid shit like EAT and sleep someplace with a bed, you're doing five shows a week, MINIMUM. We're talking about traveling across the US, not England. Texas alone is bigger than most countries. Van mileage sucks, and gas isn't cheap. On a recent tour the band High on Fire drove from Houston to Austin to Fort Worth to Austin to San Antonio to (IIRC) New Orleans. That's about 2000 miles of driving in 7 days time. Also, good luck selling 10 CD's at a show. One to three per show is a much more realistic number. Maybe someone will buy a shirt too.
The fact of the matter is, it is NOT a realistic alternative for the majority of REAL, TOURING bands to completely fund themselves. Some can do it, most can't.
Problem is, you need that $3200 all at once. A struggling musician isn't going to be throwing down that kind of coin. Credit cards are usually out of the question too.
There you go. There are far too many people here that don't understand that there are bands somewhere between 'weekend playing covers for fun' and 'headlining arenas'. These dudes spend a fuckload of time in vans every day, setting up, breaking down, loading in and out, sleeping on floors, dealing with assholes, getting fucked out of money, and for what? $150 and the chance to play for some people they've never met before. Those are the people I'm talking about and I'm happy there's at least one other person here that's on the same page I am.
What you and too many others here don't understand or realize is that it is NOT that easy.
Let's figure up the average for recording a full-length CD. If you get a deal cut for the studio time you might get 3 days at $1200, which would be $50 an hour. We'll assume that mixing is thrown into that figure to simplify matters. Toss in $500 or so for mastering, and it's time for artwork.
You could do it yourself, but more than likely you want to get someone to do it for you. For a quality CD layout with a multi-page booklet you're probably looking at $300, maybe more. We're up to $2000 and haven't even started duplication...
Which we'll do now. Printed CD, not stickers. Multi-page color booklet. Standard jewel cases. Figure $1200 total for 500 CD's (including extras. I got this figure from oasiscd.com).
$3200. That's a fucking FORTUNE to most people, let alone guys that spend 18 hours a day in a van moving from gig to gig hoping that the manager of the club they're playing tonight doesn't fuck them out of their money so they can eat and gas up the van.
It's not as easy as 'Just do it yourself' all the time. Most artists HAVE to have a label to forward them cash to produce recordings. End of story.
That's nice, but none of that answers the question of 'How can a language compile down into another language that doesn't support half of its features?' You're talking about cetain libraries and programs, and not ubiquitous ones like stdio.h.
Actually, yes. IIRC, he used tripwires strung across the track to trigger the cameras. The horse ran by, hit the string, and the camera took a picture.
Because, believe it or not, some people really don't give a damn about Linux, don't use Linux, and don't care about Linux users. The code apparently compiles under Linux, so I'm going to give it a shot. If it doesn't, it's off to my Windows box.:D
You can take Shakespeare's works themselves and copy them all you want. It's the title pages, dedications, indexes, table of contents, packing, and everything else that is copyrighted. The works themselves are public domain, the surrounding fluff isn't.
If this is a thought excercise then let's put it this way. 75 years after the authors of the music on iTunes die we'll see whether the DMCA is still in place or not. Until that time, it really doesn't matter.
It's not ridiculous for a collection of public works to be copyrighted any more than it is for Red Hat, Suse, Mandrake, and others to hold copyrights on their distributions of Linux. If they wanted they could keep people from redistributing their distro. Not the individual packages, but the whole thing as it sits on however many ISO's it's on now. It's weird, yes, but it makes sense to me.
Slashdot Mirror
It's a reason to quit bitching that commercial software companies are giving away their shit for free. If they stripped the ads and shit out of AIM and Weatherbug, then charged $25 for it, who the fuck would buy it? In the Linux world, software is free. In the Real World(TM), it isn't. Deal with it.
course they also have day jobs
This statement right here makes everything you said null and void as far as being a commentary on my post.
I seriously don't think he knows a damn thing about Java other than "The virtual machine isn't Free." I think RMS is just slowly going insane. All that bear weight is sucking his brainpower.
(? Unstable)(? Why is that)
(. LISP is (over-parenthesised, and just (not pretty)))
(. (and Basic C) are relatively close to (regular speech))
Fuck, that made my head hurt. Anyway, LISP is just plain weird. Still, complaining about syntax is like complaining that a car is ugly. Who cares? It works.
Okay, so you have ONE application for Python to hang its hat on. I'm a fan of Python, but the amount of people using it is ridiculously small compared to Java.
Microsoft doesn't have a competeing language to C, doesn't want control of C, and basically doesn't give two shits about C. They want Java under their control because they know what a massive asset it is. See a bit of a difference here?
How about some REAL WORLD numbers?
Guitar: $600-900 (not everyone plays PRS or Gibson)
Amp: $900 (head and 4x12 cabinet, used)
Mixing board: Unneccesary (venues provide them)
Mics: $60 each (Shure SM57's are cheap and plentiful)
Monitors: Unneccesary (provided by venue)
Keyboard: Unneccesary unless you have a keyboardist (that sounds like a stupid statement, but it isn't)
Lights: Unneccesary (provided by venue, and many venues won't allow outside light rigs)
Controller: Unneccesary (see above)
You're still forgetting that putting a band together isn't something you just decide to do overnight. I've been amassing gear for nine years. I have a TON of shit (several heads and cabinets, a good amount of recording gear), but I didn't buy it all at once. Fuck, for six years all I used was a shitty 2x12 Peavey combo.
You're on the right track, but your assumptions versus reality are a bit out of whack.
Earth to moron... by paying for the recording, duplication, and distribution of CD's, YOU ARE A LABEL. A 95/5 split is far worse than any label ever, and you're showing precisely how little you know about the subject by thinking that would be better than a label.
Uh... no. Aside from people that have endorsement deals, nobody uses shit like that. The people that are total gearwhores and have that shit usually have the deadly combo of being endorsers and working at music stores (see Matt Pike). Been there, done that, bought the $1200 list price guitar for $400. ;-)
Online stores are a joke. If you want any hope of selling CD's, you HAVE to have them on-hand at shows. CD's are impulse buys 99.9999% of the time, and you can't rely on those impulses to be there once you've packed the van and moved on to another city.
There are quite a few, but almost all of them you name (including Jello Biafra) have had label support at some point. There are some exceptions (Ani DiFranco is probably the best example), but they're few and far between.
Your last paragraph shows how little you know about what it's like for touring bands.
First, not all labels are corporations. The OVERWHELMING majority of labels are simply people that are involved in the local scene that have a bit of money. To these dudes, putting $3000 on a credit card and paying it off sometime soon is feasible. They can afford to go long-term because they know they'll get their money back.
But for the bands? Most of the bands out there have a hard time even making their rent. They have to find new jobs when tours are over, then quit them as soon as the next tour starts up. Vans are usually borrowed, sometimes they're owned by one of the band members. Equipment is something you have to have before you even consider touring. That's something you get out of the way before you hit the road. But once you do, money is tight. Putting $3000 on a credit card is out of the question. For a lot of these guys, that's a year's worth of rent.
Two shows a week? Uh... no. If you want to do stupid shit like EAT and sleep someplace with a bed, you're doing five shows a week, MINIMUM. We're talking about traveling across the US, not England. Texas alone is bigger than most countries. Van mileage sucks, and gas isn't cheap. On a recent tour the band High on Fire drove from Houston to Austin to Fort Worth to Austin to San Antonio to (IIRC) New Orleans. That's about 2000 miles of driving in 7 days time. Also, good luck selling 10 CD's at a show. One to three per show is a much more realistic number. Maybe someone will buy a shirt too.
The fact of the matter is, it is NOT a realistic alternative for the majority of REAL, TOURING bands to completely fund themselves. Some can do it, most can't.
Problem is, you need that $3200 all at once. A struggling musician isn't going to be throwing down that kind of coin. Credit cards are usually out of the question too.
There you go. There are far too many people here that don't understand that there are bands somewhere between 'weekend playing covers for fun' and 'headlining arenas'. These dudes spend a fuckload of time in vans every day, setting up, breaking down, loading in and out, sleeping on floors, dealing with assholes, getting fucked out of money, and for what? $150 and the chance to play for some people they've never met before. Those are the people I'm talking about and I'm happy there's at least one other person here that's on the same page I am.
What you and too many others here don't understand or realize is that it is NOT that easy.
Let's figure up the average for recording a full-length CD. If you get a deal cut for the studio time you might get 3 days at $1200, which would be $50 an hour. We'll assume that mixing is thrown into that figure to simplify matters. Toss in $500 or so for mastering, and it's time for artwork.
You could do it yourself, but more than likely you want to get someone to do it for you. For a quality CD layout with a multi-page booklet you're probably looking at $300, maybe more. We're up to $2000 and haven't even started duplication...
Which we'll do now. Printed CD, not stickers. Multi-page color booklet. Standard jewel cases. Figure $1200 total for 500 CD's (including extras. I got this figure from oasiscd.com).
$3200. That's a fucking FORTUNE to most people, let alone guys that spend 18 hours a day in a van moving from gig to gig hoping that the manager of the club they're playing tonight doesn't fuck them out of their money so they can eat and gas up the van.
It's not as easy as 'Just do it yourself' all the time. Most artists HAVE to have a label to forward them cash to produce recordings. End of story.
Then explain where he's wrong. Go on, try it.
That's nice, but none of that answers the question of 'How can a language compile down into another language that doesn't support half of its features?' You're talking about cetain libraries and programs, and not ubiquitous ones like stdio.h.
Only if you use Thuthe Linux.
Actually, yes. IIRC, he used tripwires strung across the track to trigger the cameras. The horse ran by, hit the string, and the camera took a picture.
http://www.shmups.com
Founded by Malcolm Laurie a few years back. Cool guy. Used to talk to him a lot.
Because, believe it or not, some people really don't give a damn about Linux, don't use Linux, and don't care about Linux users. The code apparently compiles under Linux, so I'm going to give it a shot. If it doesn't, it's off to my Windows box. :D
You can take Shakespeare's works themselves and copy them all you want. It's the title pages, dedications, indexes, table of contents, packing, and everything else that is copyrighted. The works themselves are public domain, the surrounding fluff isn't.
If this is a thought excercise then let's put it this way. 75 years after the authors of the music on iTunes die we'll see whether the DMCA is still in place or not. Until that time, it really doesn't matter.
It's not ridiculous for a collection of public works to be copyrighted any more than it is for Red Hat, Suse, Mandrake, and others to hold copyrights on their distributions of Linux. If they wanted they could keep people from redistributing their distro. Not the individual packages, but the whole thing as it sits on however many ISO's it's on now. It's weird, yes, but it makes sense to me.