Sorry, I am very concerned to see pseudo-science infiltrate the United States and when scientists are depicted as anti-Cristians because they support views which are commonly accepted among educated people I wonder what direction the US will go. What next?
Perhaps improvement in theological education is the first step. Enlightment reloaded. If uneducated preachers spread unenlighted views and therefore a kind of scum of public opinion undermines real science, it is time to think why people in other Christian countries in the world do not even talk about this bullshit. I mean, the US is not Iran...
Proper university education for preachers and scientific reflection on theological issues and "Christian" pseudoscience will fade away.
> All your GNU are belong to us! Sure. Sober will break into computer systems but will not attack GNU systems. Now you can guess who is behind. What coincidence!
And another question is unresolved: why do the Nazis need GNU and why did Richard start on their party Anniversary? I don't know but RMS did not comment until now to his links to the nazi party which was discovered today thanks to Slashdot.
Most Nazis were from Germany and most Sober variants are from Germany. q.e.d.
> Jack writes "ITO is reporting that Sober is scheduled to attack on January 2006 - the data coincides with > the 87th anniversary of the Nazi party
5 january Nazi party? hmm. It is much worse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono Salvatore Phillip "Sonny" Bono (February 16, 1935 - January 5, 1998) was an American record producer, singer, actor and politician whose career spanned over three decades.... He died of injuries from hitting a tree while skiing at the Heavenly Ski Resort near South Lake Tahoe, California, at the age of 62. (The accident came just days after Michael Kennedy died in a skiing accident on December 31, 1997, in Colorado.)
"ITL is reporting that Sober is scheduled to attack on January 2006 - the data coincides with the death of Sonny Bono: "The next planned widespread of 2005's most prolific e-mail worm, Sober, is scheduled to start on January 5, 2006 based on commands hard-coded within the worm. The attack date coincides with the death of Sonny Bono who died of injuries from hitting a tree while skiing at the Heavenly Ski Resort near South Lake Tahoe.""
But is even worse:
Jan 5, 2002 - Charles Bishop, a 15-year-old student pilot, crashes a light aircraft into a Tampa, Florida building, evoking fear of a copycat 9/11 terrorist attack.
Jan 5, 2000 - The 1st day of the 2000 Al Qaeda Summit.
Jan 5, 1895 - Dreyfus Affair: French officer Alfred Dreyfus is stripped of his rank and sentenced to life imprisonment on Devil's Island.
Jan 5, 1984 - Richard Stallman starts developing GNU.
So, "ITNO is reporting that Sober is scheduled to attack on January 2006 - the data coincides with the start of developing GNU and the Dreyfus Affair: "The next planned widespread of 2005's most prolific e-mail worm, Sober, is scheduled to start on January 5, 2006 based on commands hard-coded within the worm. The attack date coincides with the death of Sonny Bono, the start of Richard Stallman's GNU project, Alfred Dreyfus' imprisonment and the 1st day of the 2000 Al Qaeda Summit."
Now, in order to understand internet security you need to realize that everything is controlled by the GNU project made up of Free software supporters with help from the nazis. The conspiracy first started during 5th Jan in Devil's Island. They have been responsible for many events throughout history, including the death of Sonny Bono. Today, members of the conspiracy are everywhere. They can be identified by posting articles. They want to imprison Dreyfus and copycat 9/11 using email worm Sober. In order to prepare for this, we all must listen to the hidden news. Since the media is controlled by Richard Stallman we should get our information from slashdot.
I wonder why the FREE software Foundation develops the GPL in a closed manner and makes such a fuss out of it. Why can't we get the draft today and fix it. Sorry, I don't understand.
I know that Richard Stallman does not like personal registration, so why do we have to register with our full name to receive news about the GPL?
"Seems to me that a patent pool that accepts patents under a license obligating the pool not to enforce the patent, and offering anyone a free, unrestricted license to use the patent, is harmless. "
In fact it means that the patent system makes no sense because the situation pre-patent system is regenerated. So all these patents pooled just account for transaction costs.
Not hard to understand for a nation which survived two world wars and at least two totalitarian governments in the last century.
Germans always feel like living in the worst economic situation. "German customer service is pretty bad" is like Germans regard themselves. At least those who never crossed the border. This is what makes their success. "We have to do better."
If you are pleased with your current situation you will not improve it. So they are always looking for what goes wrong.
Well. You probably know that Nutzwerk is known to sue everybody who negatively reports about their business, including media and NGOs like FFII. So they probably want to impose their no-complaints-policy on the whole market.
"There is no indication that users prefer KDE over GNOME."
Okay. My impression was different. I would prefer GNUSTEP but there are no "indications that users prefer" GnuStep over...
Perhaps turn the question round and try to answer it:
"There is no indication that users prefer GNOME over KDE."
I respect that decision, I also like Gnome and I must further confess that I would prefer a GNUSTEP style desktop. So my market is GNUSTEP. But I do not want Novell to standadize on GNUStep. In fact that would be a serious mistake.
For instance RedHat has a real crappy KDE support. So it would be no wise decision for RedHat to standardize on KDE.
SuSe is a KDE powerhouse. So it is simply stupid to convert SuSe to Gnome. Like Mao Zedong encouraging small villages to produce steel.
When you want to sell Linux to the Desktops you have to take the best DE for that purpose. I do not believe Gnome Desktop will succeed because the gain Linux achieved on the Desktop market is mostly due to KDE. And the worm does not have to taste the fishermen.
It is a strange ideology on Linux to bundle DE to toolkits.
The only real question is whether the software written in a toolkit integrates into the chosen desktop environment, it could KDe, Gnome, Windows, Mac OS whatever.
On Windows applications are created by many different APIs and toolkits. And when you have a close at Windows applications look you will observe it. Nobody cares because they are more or less integrated and look at least similar.
Run Evolution with a QT style theme and Crystal Icons and it looks like a KDE app. Further patch the file dialog and standardize behaviour.
You confirm JDS is a failure. "Hence the major reshuffle, reorganisation and opening up of the JDS process, which you stupidly label as "abandonment"." Outsourcing to open source. We had that before.
I mean, everybody knew JDS was a failure once it was announced. Because it was not what users wanted. It was the idea of SUN people to let Gnome look like Win95 to step into the success of Win95 and bundle it with SUN fashion. 10 years too late.
When SUN ships Gnome with Solaris I am fine with it. But you cannot say solaris is a desktop Operating system. Chosing Gnome means that you do not want to target the desktop market because you will be incapable to fix the system to serve the desktop market needs. Others tried before.
Sorry, this is not the way it works on the market.
Consumer choice is not based on arguments or facts. It is not about arguments or facts, it is about preferences. Sounds strange to you. Yes, it is.
"KDE is an absolute requirement for any desktop linux with actual facts"
Because we want it and we like it best.
Preferences must not be proven. Any proofs of that kind will be academic fraud anyway. When you chose your meal: Apple or pear. Do you count arguments? No. You take what you like best.
A Novell gnome based Dektop Linux will get no acceptance on the market.
--- Give me rational reasons or arguments why not celebrate Christmas on August 3rd...
It is a problem of GTK+ that it does not integrate proper in a KDe desktop.
KDe is not bound to Toolkits.
Intrestingly Gnome adopts all non-QT solutions as part of its own solutions portfolio. I do not mind using Evolution under KDE etc. And I am certainly not intrested in Toolkit wars. They do not matter under Windows, so why shall they matter on Linux machines.
1. Adopt Gnome as default desktop for a Linux Desktop strategy. 2. ???? 3. Abandon Linux Desktop strategy
"is now the only major KDE-based Linux distribution"
No. a. SuSE is THE KDE distribution and when Novell kills KDE, Novell will not succeed with Gnome. Novell bought a KDe power house and now kills its best pratice. What Stupididy. b. Mandriva, Linspire, Kubuntu, Knoppix, etc etc etc
"How far can they get on Shuttleworth's money, when all the big boys are throwing their money behind Gnome?"
KDE is all about great fun and it works. The infrastructure is good and consistent. KDE Desktop Linux is no promise. It is ready but it can and will do better. Gnome means no fun, a boring looking desktop and money waste on premature technology, fixing unfinished solutions which only work 70%. Who throws its money? I just see business announcements following the scheme above:
RedHAt, HP, SUN, and now Novell. Few days ago SUN abandoned its gnome based Java Desktop failure. RedHat does not target the desktop anymore. And Novell did a serious mistake not listening to customers.
Oh. Yeah, Great. business buys desktop solutions because they can be easier used by the blind.
I don't want to be cynical, it is important to improve accesibility, but... Who cares about it. It might be a surplus for some.
Then why don't you use GTK to develop applications for KDE?
This is pure FUD.
It is not a problem of KDE. It is a problem of Gnome fanatics who are incapable of integrating into KDE and fix their toolkit. Just remind you of the stupid file dialog games.
It is simply nonsense to say KDE is qt and Gnome = everything else.
They are desktiop environments and toolkits should integrate in both of them.
Who cares whether KDE is developed with QT?
Oh, this is the stupid business way of thinking: Why not collaborate, one desktop for all, Kmail and Evolution; Latex, Kword, Abiword and OO.org developers join to build one product to compete with MS Word. Cutting costs by focussing on one product. Haha. This is not the way it works and who knows Open Source development is aware of it. Of course this step only demonstrates that Novell is run by novices to the Linux market.
This is not the way the market works. I like SuSE and I like it because it is a KDE app. Customers buy SuSe because of its KDE reputation. It's Gnome support was always second class and for our great surprise that Novell bought Ximian did not change that. If you want Desktop you take KDE, if you want Gnome you do not take SuSE.
Another example: The Germans had nice pursuits planes but Hitler ordered they had to be used for bombine. Of course the planes were not designed for that purpose.
Same for Gnome: It is the second choice on the desktop, perhaps useful on the mainframe. Few days ago SUN abadonned its Java Desktop because it was GNOME based and they suffered under it.
Novell is a company which does not listen to their customers and does not understand the Linux desktop market. Why did they pick one of the best KDE distributions in order to convert it to Gnome. This makes no sense. Clueless business people with no knowledge of the market.
But: You better not force your customers to use the inferior product.
SuSE is fine and is succesful because it is KDE. Linux Desktop is strong in europe and it almost means KDE. Some hackers prefer Gnome and I am fine with it.
But: This is certainly a wrong decision. RedHat was a gnome distribution and users are fine with that. But why buy a SuSe when it just does what RedHat does and RedHat is no distribution for the Desktop. Gnome is not ready for the enterprise desktop.
Believe me. I do not care whether software is written in GTK or QT. Toolkits shoudl not matter and GTK shall integrate better in KDE as QT should better integrate into the Gnome desktop. Who cares about toolkits.
The problem is that users think Linux=RedHat in the US and Linux Desktop=KDE in Europe. And you better don't fuck off your customers.
SuSe is a very mature enterprise distribution. When did they start? They grew and grew as an SME and than stupid Novell took them over. We all thought this will be the end of SuSe and it now turns out to be true. Novell which is clueless about SuSe destroys Suse which is an enterprise ready distribution widely used in Europe for 10 years in order to create its own Novell enterprise rip-off. Using the old trademark Novell, killing the best SuSe distribution in favour of a second choice desktop.
Many people over here learned to know Linux by SuSe. Nerds switch to Debian and other exotic distributions. Mandriva is even more user-centric. But: Who wants a boring gnome desktop? Gnome 1.x was nice, a true hacker's desktop. But gnome 2.x? You cannot sell this, sorry.
Most people over here don't know KDE, this is true. They think KDE is Linux.
Well, SuSe managers always confirmed their committment towards KDE. It seems Ximian succeeded in brainwashing Novell US.
Time to free Suse from Novell.
Well, who cares about toolkits. Why not run Mono under KDE? Why not develop GTK apps for KDE. KDE is a desktop environment, no application toolkit.
The visual differences are mostly artificial ones. We will see crosstheming very soon.
"As you say, as long as Novell listens to it's customers they can put resources into extending GNOME to do what customers need."
No. SuSE has a market and has customers. They chose SuSE because of SuSe's KDE committment, because they know that KDE is well supported under SuSE and KDE serves their needs best. It is not about preferences of geeks. It is about the the European market they bought. And you cannot impose a product on a market.
Well, be serious. What real interoperability problems are left?
Today you can configure Gtk apps to look like KDE ones. Intrestingly most "gnome" apps are just non-qt ones thus assimilated by the gnome desktop which lacks integration. It was a problem from Gnome that it is unable to interoperate properly with KDE.
Is it visual appearence? Give us a few month and there will be no discussion on that anymore. Crosstheming is very close.
"will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE."
So KDE will be supported as a second class citizen by SuSe?
No thanks! They are not serious!
Why did Novell buy a KDE distribution? In order to kill its market and convert it to Gnome? I think this management of Novell is 100% clueless about the market of SuSe.
Slashdot Mirror
Sorry, I am very concerned to see pseudo-science infiltrate the United States and when scientists are depicted as anti-Cristians because they support views which are commonly accepted among educated people I wonder what direction the US will go. What next?
Perhaps improvement in theological education is the first step. Enlightment reloaded. If uneducated preachers spread unenlighted views and therefore a kind of scum of public opinion undermines real science, it is time to think why people in other Christian countries in the world do not even talk about this bullshit. I mean, the US is not Iran...
Proper university education for preachers and scientific reflection on theological issues and "Christian" pseudoscience will fade away.
> All your GNU are belong to us!
o ses20020315.jpg and watch the GNU symbol below.
Sure. Sober will break into computer systems but will not attack GNU systems. Now you can guess who is behind. What coincidence!
Please also not the similarity to Exodus 7, see http://www.bartleby.com/108/02/7.html
Please keep in mind that Moses was depicted by Michelangelo with a Horn, just like some images of Richard as found on the net. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MichaelangeloM
And another question is unresolved: why do the Nazis need GNU and why did Richard start on their party Anniversary? I don't know but RMS did not comment until now to his links to the nazi party which was discovered today thanks to Slashdot.
Most Nazis were from Germany and most Sober variants are from Germany. q.e.d.
Richard Stallman also once went to Germany. Why?
> Jack writes "ITO is reporting that Sober is scheduled to attack on January 2006 - the data coincides with > the 87th anniversary of the Nazi party
... He died of injuries from hitting a tree while skiing at the Heavenly Ski Resort near South Lake Tahoe, California, at the age of 62. (The accident came just days after Michael Kennedy died in a skiing accident on December 31, 1997, in Colorado.)
5 january Nazi party? hmm. It is much worse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono
Salvatore Phillip "Sonny" Bono (February 16, 1935 - January 5, 1998) was an American record producer, singer, actor and politician whose career spanned over three decades.
"ITL is reporting that Sober is scheduled to attack on January 2006 - the data coincides with the death of Sonny Bono: "The next planned widespread of 2005's most prolific e-mail worm, Sober, is scheduled to start on January 5, 2006 based on commands hard-coded within the worm. The attack date coincides with the death of Sonny Bono who died of injuries from hitting a tree while skiing at the Heavenly Ski Resort near South Lake Tahoe.""
But is even worse:
Jan 5, 2002 - Charles Bishop, a 15-year-old student pilot, crashes a light aircraft into a Tampa, Florida building, evoking fear of a copycat 9/11 terrorist attack.
Jan 5, 2000 - The 1st day of the 2000 Al Qaeda Summit.
Jan 5, 1895 - Dreyfus Affair: French officer Alfred Dreyfus is stripped of his rank and sentenced to life imprisonment on Devil's Island.
Jan 5, 1984 - Richard Stallman starts developing GNU.
So, "ITNO is reporting that Sober is scheduled to attack on January 2006 - the data coincides with the start of developing GNU and the Dreyfus Affair: "The next planned widespread of 2005's most prolific e-mail worm, Sober, is scheduled to start on January 5, 2006 based on commands hard-coded within the worm. The attack date coincides with the death of Sonny Bono, the start of Richard Stallman's GNU project, Alfred Dreyfus' imprisonment and the 1st day of the 2000 Al Qaeda Summit."
Now, in order to understand internet security you need to realize that everything is controlled by the GNU project made up of Free software supporters with help from the nazis. The conspiracy first started during 5th Jan in Devil's Island. They have been responsible for many events throughout history, including the death of Sonny Bono. Today, members of the conspiracy are everywhere. They can be identified by posting articles. They want to imprison Dreyfus and copycat 9/11 using email worm Sober. In order to prepare for this, we all must listen to the hidden news. Since the media is controlled by Richard Stallman we should get our information from slashdot.
I wonder why the FREE software Foundation develops the GPL in a closed manner and makes such a fuss out of it. Why can't we get the draft today and fix it. Sorry, I don't understand.
I know that Richard Stallman does not like personal registration, so why do we have to register with our full name to receive news about the GPL?
What is needed now is no protection shield against software patents.
What is needed now is an American equivalent to the European campaign effort. It is possible to abolish software patents and this is the way to go.
So where is the US campaign?
"Seems to me that a patent pool that accepts patents under a license obligating the pool not to enforce the patent, and offering anyone a free, unrestricted license to use the patent, is harmless. "
In fact it means that the patent system makes no sense because the situation pre-patent system is regenerated. So all these patents pooled just account for transaction costs.
The principle of grace.
Well. It is thinking in 'worst case' scenarios.
Not hard to understand for a nation which survived two world wars and at least two totalitarian governments in the last century.
Germans always feel like living in the worst economic situation. "German customer service is pretty bad" is like Germans regard themselves. At least those who never crossed the border. This is what makes their success. "We have to do better."
If you are pleased with your current situation you will not improve it. So they are always looking for what goes wrong.
Apparently they managed to scare away or delete all negative reporting from google index. Nutzwerk are court injunction specialists.
Well. You probably know that Nutzwerk is known to sue everybody who negatively reports about their business, including media and NGOs like FFII. So they probably want to impose their no-complaints-policy on the whole market.
See e.g. http://nutzwerk.ffii.org/
"There is no indication that users prefer KDE over GNOME." Okay. My impression was different. I would prefer GNUSTEP but there are no "indications that users prefer" GnuStep over ...
Perhaps turn the question round and try to answer it:
"There is no indication that users prefer GNOME over KDE."
I respect that decision, I also like Gnome and I must further confess that I would prefer a GNUSTEP style desktop. So my market is GNUSTEP. But I do not want Novell to standadize on GNUStep. In fact that would be a serious mistake.
For instance RedHat has a real crappy KDE support. So it would be no wise decision for RedHat to standardize on KDE.
SuSe is a KDE powerhouse. So it is simply stupid to convert SuSe to Gnome. Like Mao Zedong encouraging small villages to produce steel.
When you want to sell Linux to the Desktops you have to take the best DE for that purpose. I do not believe Gnome Desktop will succeed because the gain Linux achieved on the Desktop market is mostly due to KDE. And the worm does not have to taste the fishermen.
No I am not joking.
It is a strange ideology on Linux to bundle DE to toolkits.
The only real question is whether the software written in a toolkit integrates into the chosen desktop environment, it could KDe, Gnome, Windows, Mac OS whatever.
On Windows applications are created by many different APIs and toolkits. And when you have a close at Windows applications look you will observe it. Nobody cares because they are more or less integrated and look at least similar.
Run Evolution with a QT style theme and Crystal Icons and it looks like a KDE app. Further patch the file dialog and standardize behaviour.
Thanks for clarification.
You confirm JDS is a failure.
"Hence the major reshuffle, reorganisation and opening up of the JDS process, which you stupidly label as "abandonment"."
Outsourcing to open source. We had that before.
See:
http://www.gnome.org/~gman/blog/2005/Nov/01
I mean, everybody knew JDS was a failure once it was announced. Because it was not what users wanted. It was the idea of SUN people to let Gnome look like Win95 to step into the success of Win95 and bundle it with SUN fashion. 10 years too late.
When SUN ships Gnome with Solaris I am fine with it. But you cannot say solaris is a desktop Operating system. Chosing Gnome means that you do not want to target the desktop market because you will be incapable to fix the system to serve the desktop market needs. Others tried before.
Sorry, this is not the way it works on the market.
Consumer choice is not based on arguments or facts.
It is not about arguments or facts, it is about preferences.
Sounds strange to you. Yes, it is.
"KDE is an absolute requirement for any desktop linux with actual facts"
Because we want it and we like it best.
Preferences must not be proven. Any proofs of that kind will be academic fraud anyway. When you chose your meal: Apple or pear. Do you count arguments? No. You take what you like best.
A Novell gnome based Dektop Linux will get no acceptance on the market.
---
Give me rational reasons or arguments why not celebrate Christmas on August 3rd...
KDE vs. Gnome is not QT vs. GTK+
It is a problem of GTK+ that it does not integrate proper in a KDe desktop.
KDe is not bound to Toolkits.
Intrestingly Gnome adopts all non-QT solutions as part of its own solutions portfolio. I do not mind using Evolution under KDE etc. And I am certainly not intrested in Toolkit wars. They do not matter under Windows, so why shall they matter on Linux machines.
Well, it goes like this
1. Adopt Gnome as default desktop for a Linux Desktop strategy.
2. ????
3. Abandon Linux Desktop strategy
"is now the only major KDE-based Linux distribution"
No.
a. SuSE is THE KDE distribution and when Novell kills KDE, Novell will not succeed with Gnome. Novell bought a KDe power house and now kills its best pratice. What Stupididy.
b. Mandriva, Linspire, Kubuntu, Knoppix, etc etc etc
"How far can they get on Shuttleworth's money, when all the big boys are throwing their money behind Gnome?"
KDE is all about great fun and it works. The infrastructure is good and consistent. KDE Desktop Linux is no promise. It is ready but it can and will do better.
Gnome means no fun, a boring looking desktop and money waste on premature technology, fixing unfinished solutions which only work 70%.
Who throws its money? I just see business announcements following the scheme above:
RedHAt, HP, SUN, and now Novell. Few days ago SUN abandoned its gnome based Java Desktop failure. RedHat does not target the desktop anymore. And Novell did a serious mistake not listening to customers.
Oh. Yeah, Great. business buys desktop solutions because they can be easier used by the blind. I don't want to be cynical, it is important to improve accesibility, but... Who cares about it. It might be a surplus for some.
Then why don't you use GTK to develop applications for KDE? This is pure FUD. It is not a problem of KDE. It is a problem of Gnome fanatics who are incapable of integrating into KDE and fix their toolkit. Just remind you of the stupid file dialog games. It is simply nonsense to say KDE is qt and Gnome = everything else. They are desktiop environments and toolkits should integrate in both of them. Who cares whether KDE is developed with QT?
Oh, this is the stupid business way of thinking: Why not collaborate, one desktop for all, Kmail and Evolution; Latex, Kword, Abiword and OO.org developers join to build one product to compete with MS Word. Cutting costs by focussing on one product. Haha. This is not the way it works and who knows Open Source development is aware of it. Of course this step only demonstrates that Novell is run by novices to the Linux market.
This is not the way the market works. I like SuSE and I like it because it is a KDE app. Customers buy SuSe because of its KDE reputation. It's Gnome support was always second class and for our great surprise that Novell bought Ximian did not change that. If you want Desktop you take KDE, if you want Gnome you do not take SuSE.
Another example: The Germans had nice pursuits planes but Hitler ordered they had to be used for bombine. Of course the planes were not designed for that purpose.
Same for Gnome: It is the second choice on the desktop, perhaps useful on the mainframe. Few days ago SUN abadonned its Java Desktop because it was GNOME based and they suffered under it.
Novell is a company which does not listen to their customers and does not understand the Linux desktop market. Why did they pick one of the best KDE distributions in order to convert it to Gnome. This makes no sense. Clueless business people with no knowledge of the market.
But: You better not force your customers to use the inferior product. SuSE is fine and is succesful because it is KDE. Linux Desktop is strong in europe and it almost means KDE. Some hackers prefer Gnome and I am fine with it. But: This is certainly a wrong decision. RedHat was a gnome distribution and users are fine with that. But why buy a SuSe when it just does what RedHat does and RedHat is no distribution for the Desktop. Gnome is not ready for the enterprise desktop. Believe me. I do not care whether software is written in GTK or QT. Toolkits shoudl not matter and GTK shall integrate better in KDE as QT should better integrate into the Gnome desktop. Who cares about toolkits. The problem is that users think Linux=RedHat in the US and Linux Desktop=KDE in Europe. And you better don't fuck off your customers.
SuSe is a very mature enterprise distribution. When did they start? They grew and grew as an SME and than stupid Novell took them over. We all thought this will be the end of SuSe and it now turns out to be true. Novell which is clueless about SuSe destroys Suse which is an enterprise ready distribution widely used in Europe for 10 years in order to create its own Novell enterprise rip-off. Using the old trademark Novell, killing the best SuSe distribution in favour of a second choice desktop.
Many people over here learned to know Linux by SuSe. Nerds switch to Debian and other exotic distributions. Mandriva is even more user-centric. But: Who wants a boring gnome desktop? Gnome 1.x was nice, a true hacker's desktop. But gnome 2.x? You cannot sell this, sorry.
Most people over here don't know KDE, this is true. They think KDE is Linux.
Well, SuSe managers always confirmed their committment towards KDE. It seems Ximian succeeded in brainwashing Novell US. Time to free Suse from Novell.
Well, who cares about toolkits. Why not run Mono under KDE? Why not develop GTK apps for KDE. KDE is a desktop environment, no application toolkit.
The visual differences are mostly artificial ones. We will see crosstheming very soon.
"As you say, as long as Novell listens to it's customers they can put resources into extending GNOME to do what customers need."
No. SuSE has a market and has customers. They chose SuSE because of SuSe's KDE committment, because they know that KDE is well supported under SuSE and KDE serves their needs best. It is not about preferences of geeks. It is about the the European market they bought. And you cannot impose a product on a market.
Well, be serious. What real interoperability problems are left? Today you can configure Gtk apps to look like KDE ones. Intrestingly most "gnome" apps are just non-qt ones thus assimilated by the gnome desktop which lacks integration. It was a problem from Gnome that it is unable to interoperate properly with KDE. Is it visual appearence? Give us a few month and there will be no discussion on that anymore. Crosstheming is very close.
"will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE." So KDE will be supported as a second class citizen by SuSe? No thanks! They are not serious! Why did Novell buy a KDE distribution? In order to kill its market and convert it to Gnome? I think this management of Novell is 100% clueless about the market of SuSe.