Of course, anything associated with java must be slow I guess, whatever.
There is nothing inherently slow about jar files. A Jar is simply a zip file with a.jar extension that may or may not use compression. You can can open it with winzip or unzip.
Smaller files mean less disk IO. The CPU usage to decompress the class files into ram is relatively low.
The topic of continents is typically taught in early grade school.
Your anecdotal evidence holds no water. I'll give you that most americans can't name every balkan state or give you latitude and longitude coordinates to every island in the south pacific. That said, it is safe to assume that the vast majority of Americans understand that the United States of America is a country in the Continent of North America. And that the continent of South America contains several more countries. This basic geography is not lost, and it doesn't not compell us in the least to change the fact that we refer to ourselves as American.
Your assumption that it must be because of lack of education is indeed very insulting.
That was in response to non-membership in the EU as being less European.
The guy you responded to didn't say anything insulting. You're sure baiting for it though. The sad thing is, you probably don't even realise it.
The guy I responded to placed a stereotype on 300 million so called "Merkins" that smacks of either arrogance or bigotry. And check my posting history. Flaimbait isn't typically my modus operandi. I just have a problem with the term USians. "Merkins" is kind of silly as well.
Hence, I must ask: what gives USians the exclusive right to the label "American"
The United States of America is the country in North, Central, and South America that has America in its name. And as a sovereign nation we do in fact have the exclusive right in naming ourselves.
When I was traveling abroad (especially Britian) I often found myself saying "No, I am not an American, I am a Canadian". But I would often get a puzzled look, because people don't always differentiate between the two. It's not intended as an insult, they genuinely don't see why someone from the US and someone from Canada shouldn't both be called "American".
They may have been acting confused as a joke. I guess you could be insulted if you're canadian. Since I am American, I think you should take it as a compliment.
It's like the word "European": there's a European Union which many of the Euro countries belong to, but would you say that citizens of a non-member country (say, Switzerland) are somehow less European?
No. It is nothing like that at all. An Italian is a European, but also an Italian. A German is a European, but also a German. That could be by way of EU affiliation or when referring to which continent they live in. You're welcome to refer to Mexicans, Canadians, and Americans as North Americans if you'd like.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Merkins think of themselves the only people in the Americas, considering their average knowledge of world geography.
No reason to get insulting. We simply haven't been compelled to name ourselves anything else in over 200 years.
Being kind of open-source is like being kind of pregnant.
No. That analogy does not work at all. Lets say sun open sourced 90% of its APIs under a license that everyone loves. That would help projects like GCJ and gnuclasspath quite a bit. Java isn't one giant self contained executable that we need the source code to. There are plenty of parts that would be helpful.
Don't get mad, I clearly quoted the part that made your post a troll. Unsubstantiated claims by someone who admittedly hasn't touched the distro in 8 years.
As someone who used redhat through 6.0, 7.0, and 7.1 in a professional capacity, as well as all of the rest of them since 1999, I can tell you that you either have no idea what you're talking about, or you're trolling.
Well given only those two choices, I guess I'll take the former, as I wasn't trolling in the slightest. I'm a developer, and by no means a sysadmin. Most of my experience in with the earlier distros was from a desktop perspective. I first started with redhat 5.1. I didn't really give it much of a chance, but I really started to like the distro when I bought the 5.2 CDs. I put it on an p2 233 and was very happy with it.
My problems with the mentioned versions are actually pretty simple. Version 6.0 pissed me off because it was much more expensive off the shelf than the previous versions. I stil think 6.2 is the most stable version I ever used, and I could install it on anything. I got the disks free at an IBM trade show.
7.0 & 7.1 bugged me because the power management changes meant I couldn't get it to work on my Dell latitude at the time. I probably just didn't know enough about linux. 7.2 & 7.3 were great, they fired right up on my laptop and workstations and I used them quite a bit.
As far as 8 being a problem, well I was never a user of mod_perl, and I've only started using php a year or so ago. Some people complained about blue curve, but its not like the desktop managers couldn't have their themes changed.
As far as it being commercial and enterprise, oh cry me a freakin river.
I'm using it professionaly now to house oracle databases. Guess what, RH enterpise is competing with HP/UX and Solaris, not windows. Oracle isn't something we could easily get away from, and guess what? Oracle support for linux on anything other than Redhat sucks.
It sounds like you're complaining because they're not competing in the same space as mandrake and suse. So what? I'm happy with fedora as a desktop, the support is a good as anything else that's free. When I need it for "enterprise" support its price competitive enough.
Again, I'm a developer, not a sysadmin. If I was, and had to roll out linux to a hundred desktops, I'd probably go with fedora/ltsp. If it had to be fat clients, and I needed paid support, I'd probably go with novell/suse. That said, fedora currently suits my niche just fine.
No I didn't, but I can understand how vocal the people were that this happened to. The list was flooded with it. I've installed FC3 on about 6 or 7 machines. I'm a developer, not a sysadmin. One laptop dell inspiron 5150, and a few different workstations. Never had the problem booting that other people came accross.
I don't know . . . I think I still prefer my linux from a non commercial entity that isn't just throwing me bits and pieces to test as a guinea-pig for their corporate product.
Bits and pieces to test? Nice troll, the distro has been solid and getting better each release.
I haven't used RedHat since 1997, but after the whole "enterprise" thing followed by the "fedora" program, I don't think I ever will.
Well, since you havent used it since 1997, you have no idea what you are talking about. You're missing out, I HAVE been using it since 1997. With the exception of a few releases (redhat 6.0,7.0,7.1) its been a great distro. I haven't had any problems with the fedora core releases. I was a little upset that FC3 had a few packages removed, but they made it back into FC4
About the abandonment aspect, most Linux geeks were very much put out by Red Hat's decision to discontinue the non-enterprise product and to de-support it. They left everyone in a lurch by doing so, and not just the geeks. As elsewhere noted, when the suits think Linux they think Red Hat, and quite a number of smaller companies that would never consider buying or being forced to upgrade to an enterprise product were stuck with having to either run an unpatched server or pay for an expensive migration to another distro.
I still get regular updates from redhat on fedora. Little icon on the corner of my screen lights up when there are new patches to download. If you want an officially supported desktop you can buy: http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/client/
After six months or so, if memory serves me, the fedoralegacy.org project was started to provide patches for old Red Hat installations.
Fedora core 1 had the ability to download updates from the start. Fedoralegacy is to support users that don't want to keep up with the fedora release cycle.
Too little, too late, in my opinion. Perhaps this new foundation will in fact repair the damage done regarding geek opinion of Redhat/Fedora/whatever_is_next.
Any "damage" that was done was by uninformed people spreading fud in public forums like slashdot. Redhat shifted focus on its commercial products to its paying customers while still donating a huge amount of development time to the free project. They wanted their business to survive... ooooh the horror!
...Oh, and hi, Greg! Still gonna buy me lunch? Heh, heh.
How did they abandon anyone? By no longer putting a RH desktop distro on store shelves? It wasn't profitable. They still have a free distro (fedora) that they put lots of R&D into. What's the problem?
And we should just trust our benevolent dictators that have yet to provide us with a shockwave plugin for linux?
Forget flash, a good chunk of its usefullness can be handled with simple AJAX. Where in the hell is shockwave for linux? How many more petitions and signatures does Macromedia need?
I agree with your post. And I'll add that I like using programs written in SWT. But I've done some development in SWT and found that swing is a much nicer API from a development standpoint. For Example, most SWT GUI component consturctors expect an OR'ed list of constants to set attributes. Most swing components have default constructors that you then set properties on. Some people might prefer the SWT method, but I personally find the swing method easier.
Ever heard of Phoenix, AZ? (its the fifth largest city in the US) Tempe is the college town bordering Phoenix. Its land locked by other larger cities, Mesa, Scottsdale, and Chandler.
Downtown tempe is pretty much Mill Avenue. Nice place for most of the year, a little uncomfortable during the daytime in the summer.
Its not mucus. Its pus and antiboitics. Rotten blood and enzymes boiled to perfection. And it is deeeeelicious. I only use soy sometimes because of the lactose intolerance thing. And soy has less carbs. But milk tastes much better.
But it is a given that booting only the freeloaders would have been better for business than not booting anyone.
Apparently some people want to go to a coffee shop to shoot the breeze and drink coffee, not to check their email.
Agreed. And some people want do want to use the internet in a coffee shop. The article didn't prove that a happy middleground was unattainable. An article proving or disproving that would be interesting.
This story only proves that a company had bad business practice left unchecked for five years. It caused them to build up an abundance of freeloaders taking up space.
It would appear, my friend, that at least one coffee shop has demonstrated that it does more business without wi-fi than with it. Apparently this particular business had more people buying coffee when the booted the geeks and their laptops.
They didn't boot geeks and their laptops, they booted freeloaders with laptops. They also booted legitimate customers with laptops. If the new ambiance of no laptops draws a better crowd on the weekends, great. I'm curious what this would do for the weekdays.
Now this particular business could go through the expense of setting up some sort of pay as you go wi-fi system, but there is no guarantee that such a system would be a good investment. Especially considering that the business sells more coffee with the wi-fi turned off.
Time=money and it takes money to make money. Sometimes risks pay off. It doesn't take a lot of horsepower to run this type of software and there is open source software pieces to help. I know how I would do it if I owned a coffee shop:)
if you use a timed-password system with POS integration, then does that mean you've paid for access?
No. It means you bought a cup of coffee and are a paying customer. As such you enjoy the benefits of a paying customer. Just like countless other places put up signs like "bathrooms are for paying customers only"
so you've gone from customers being happy about the extra customer service, to apparently setting up a whole new product with its own customer service requirements to deal with their demands.for example, if the net connection goes down for half an hour, do you get another password to make sure you get all your time?
You don't owe them anything. They paid for a cup of coffee not internet access. Internet access is free for paying customers. Unless you want to charge. Sometimes the bathrooms are out of order too. If you want you can use your own discretion and give the cashier the ability to click a button and generate another access key.
do you guarantee a minimum speed?
Absolutely, and if their interet connection slows down, promptly refund their $0.00 they paid for the service.
can you advertise you offer free wifi anymore without radio-ad-style disclaimers? if you're now charging for the service, since you're making purchase a requirement, are you now officially an ISP? is YOUR ISP going to have problems with you reselling service? are you bound by any ISP laws? do you need to keep logs? etc etc etc etc etc...
On approved credit, some restrictions apply, check your state and local laws and internet provider for details.
Why should this be any different than anything else you do to run a business. Because it is IT related, you don't have to do any research? What about about tax laws? What about health regulations? What about employee wages/benefits? What happens if the coffee is too hot for someone's lap?
Sure, there's a market for a product that a service that doesn't bring in more revenue for the company.
This slashdot article does not prove that wifi service will not bring in more revenue. All it proved is that freeloaders leaving made room for paying customers.
Slashdot Mirror
Why wouldn't a jar be faster?
.jar extension that may or may not use compression. You can can open it with winzip or unzip.
Of course, anything associated with java must be slow I guess, whatever.
There is nothing inherently slow about jar files. A Jar is simply a zip file with a
Smaller files mean less disk IO. The CPU usage to decompress the class files into ram is relatively low.
The topic of continents is typically taught in early grade school.
Your anecdotal evidence holds no water. I'll give you that most americans can't name every balkan state or give you latitude and longitude coordinates to every island in the south pacific.
That said, it is safe to assume that the vast majority of Americans understand that the United States of America is a country in the Continent of North America. And that the continent of South America contains several more countries.
This basic geography is not lost, and it doesn't not compell us in the least to change the fact that we refer to ourselves as American.
Your assumption that it must be because of lack of education is indeed very insulting.
That was in response to non-membership in the EU as being less European.
The guy you responded to didn't say anything insulting. You're sure baiting for it though. The sad thing is, you probably don't even realise it.
The guy I responded to placed a stereotype on 300 million so called "Merkins" that smacks of either arrogance or bigotry.
And check my posting history. Flaimbait isn't typically my modus operandi.
I just have a problem with the term USians. "Merkins" is kind of silly as well.
Hence, I must ask: what gives USians the exclusive right to the label "American"
The United States of America is the country in North, Central, and South America that has America in its name. And as a sovereign nation we do in fact have the exclusive right in naming ourselves.
When I was traveling abroad (especially Britian) I often found myself saying "No, I am not an American, I am a Canadian". But I would often get a puzzled look, because people don't always differentiate between the two. It's not intended as an insult, they genuinely don't see why someone from the US and someone from Canada shouldn't both be called "American".
They may have been acting confused as a joke. I guess you could be insulted if you're canadian.
Since I am American, I think you should take it as a compliment.
It's like the word "European": there's a European Union which many of the Euro countries belong to, but would you say that citizens of a non-member country (say, Switzerland) are somehow less European?
No. It is nothing like that at all. An Italian is a European, but also an Italian. A German is a European, but also a German. That could be by way of EU affiliation or when referring to which continent they live in.
You're welcome to refer to Mexicans, Canadians, and Americans as North Americans if you'd like.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Merkins think of themselves the only people in the Americas, considering their average knowledge of world geography.
No reason to get insulting. We simply haven't been compelled to name ourselves anything else in over 200 years.
There are plenty of Americans that aren't from the USA. Canadians, Mexicans, Peruvians, Brazilians, etc. etc.
:)
Yet they don't refer to themselves as American. And Americans don't refer to themselves as USians
You had me until the "USian" thing.
Its not cute.
Most Americans use the term American.
"USian" is rude at best.
Being kind of open-source is like being kind of pregnant.
No. That analogy does not work at all.
Lets say sun open sourced 90% of its APIs under a license that everyone loves. That would help projects like GCJ and gnuclasspath quite a bit.
Java isn't one giant self contained executable that we need the source code to.
There are plenty of parts that would be helpful.
$149, in the arizona republic too.
Always linux machines in stock when I go to fry's. And I go way too much.
Don't get mad, I clearly quoted the part that made your post a troll.
Unsubstantiated claims by someone who admittedly hasn't touched the distro in 8 years.
As someone who used redhat through 6.0, 7.0, and 7.1 in a professional capacity, as well as all of the rest of them since 1999, I can tell you that you either have no idea what you're talking about, or you're trolling.
Well given only those two choices, I guess I'll take the former, as I wasn't trolling in the slightest.
I'm a developer, and by no means a sysadmin. Most of my experience in with the earlier distros was from a desktop perspective. I first started with redhat 5.1. I didn't really give it much of a chance, but I really started to like the distro when I bought the 5.2 CDs. I put it on an p2 233 and was very happy with it.
My problems with the mentioned versions are actually pretty simple.
Version 6.0 pissed me off because it was much more expensive off the shelf than the previous versions.
I stil think 6.2 is the most stable version I ever used, and I could install it on anything. I got the disks free at an IBM trade show.
7.0 & 7.1 bugged me because the power management changes meant I couldn't get it to work on my Dell latitude at the time. I probably just didn't know enough about linux.
7.2 & 7.3 were great, they fired right up on my laptop and workstations and I used them quite a bit.
As far as 8 being a problem, well I was never a user of mod_perl, and I've only started using php a year or so ago.
Some people complained about blue curve, but its not like the desktop managers couldn't have their themes changed.
As far as it being commercial and enterprise, oh cry me a freakin river.
I'm using it professionaly now to house oracle databases. Guess what, RH enterpise is competing with HP/UX and Solaris, not windows. Oracle isn't something we could easily get away from, and guess what? Oracle support for linux on anything other than Redhat sucks.
It sounds like you're complaining because they're not competing in the same space as mandrake and suse. So what? I'm happy with fedora as a desktop, the support is a good as anything else that's free. When I need it for "enterprise" support its price competitive enough.
Again, I'm a developer, not a sysadmin. If I was, and had to roll out linux to a hundred desktops, I'd probably go with fedora/ltsp. If it had to be fat clients, and I needed paid support, I'd probably go with novell/suse.
That said, fedora currently suits my niche just fine.
No I didn't, but I can understand how vocal the people were that this happened to. The list was flooded with it.
I've installed FC3 on about 6 or 7 machines. I'm a developer, not a sysadmin. One laptop dell inspiron 5150, and a few different workstations. Never had the problem booting that other people came accross.
I don't know . . . I think I still prefer my linux from a non commercial entity that isn't just throwing me bits and pieces to test as a guinea-pig for their corporate product.
,7.0,7.1) its been a great distro. I haven't had any problems with the fedora core releases. I was a little upset that FC3 had a few packages removed, but they made it back into FC4
Bits and pieces to test?
Nice troll, the distro has been solid and getting better each release.
I haven't used RedHat since 1997, but after the whole "enterprise" thing followed by the "fedora" program, I don't think I ever will.
Well, since you havent used it since 1997, you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're missing out, I HAVE been using it since 1997. With the exception of a few releases (redhat 6.0
It was delayed a week.
Here's the public release schedule.
About the abandonment aspect, most Linux geeks were very much put out by Red Hat's decision to discontinue the non-enterprise product and to de-support it. They left everyone in a lurch by doing so, and not just the geeks. As elsewhere noted, when the suits think Linux they think Red Hat, and quite a number of smaller companies that would never consider buying or being forced to upgrade to an enterprise product were stuck with having to either run an unpatched server or pay for an expensive migration to another distro.
...Oh, and hi, Greg! Still gonna buy me lunch? Heh, heh.
I still get regular updates from redhat on fedora. Little icon on the corner of my screen lights up when there are new patches to download. If you want an officially supported desktop you can buy:
http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/client/
After six months or so, if memory serves me, the fedoralegacy.org project was started to provide patches for old Red Hat installations.
Fedora core 1 had the ability to download updates from the start. Fedoralegacy is to support users that don't want to keep up with the fedora release cycle.
Too little, too late, in my opinion. Perhaps this new foundation will in fact repair the damage done regarding geek opinion of Redhat/Fedora/whatever_is_next.
Any "damage" that was done was by uninformed people spreading fud in public forums like slashdot.
Redhat shifted focus on its commercial products to its paying customers while still donating a huge amount of development time to the free project. They wanted their business to survive... ooooh the horror!
Sorry, not sure who Greg is.
FUD
How did they abandon anyone? By no longer putting a RH desktop distro on store shelves? It wasn't profitable. They still have a free distro (fedora) that they put lots of R&D into.
What's the problem?
That's good to hear.
I've set up a 60 terminal ltsp network for a school, and the only complaints I get are shockwave apps not working.
I think you mean shockwave.
There is some flash in educational sites, but way to much shockwave being used.
And we should just trust our benevolent dictators that have yet to provide us with a shockwave plugin for linux?
Forget flash, a good chunk of its usefullness can be handled with simple AJAX. Where in the hell is shockwave for linux? How many more petitions and signatures does Macromedia need?
I agree with your post.
And I'll add that I like using programs written in SWT. But I've done some development in SWT and found that swing is a much nicer API from a development standpoint.
For Example, most SWT GUI component consturctors expect an OR'ed list of constants to set attributes. Most swing components have default constructors that you then set properties on. Some people might prefer the SWT method, but I personally find the swing method easier.
Ever heard of Phoenix, AZ? (its the fifth largest city in the US)
Tempe is the college town bordering Phoenix.
Its land locked by other larger cities, Mesa, Scottsdale, and Chandler.
Downtown tempe is pretty much Mill Avenue. Nice place for most of the year, a little uncomfortable during the daytime in the summer.
Its not mucus. Its pus and antiboitics. Rotten blood and enzymes boiled to perfection. And it is deeeeelicious. I only use soy sometimes because of the lactose intolerance thing. And soy has less carbs.
But milk tastes much better.
But it is a given that booting only the freeloaders would have been better for business than not booting anyone.
Apparently some people want to go to a coffee shop to shoot the breeze and drink coffee, not to check their email.
Agreed. And some people want do want to use the internet in a coffee shop. The article didn't prove that a happy middleground was unattainable. An article proving or disproving that would be interesting.
This story only proves that a company had bad business practice left unchecked for five years. It caused them to build up an abundance of freeloaders taking up space.
:)
It would appear, my friend, that at least one coffee shop has demonstrated that it does more business without wi-fi than with it. Apparently this particular business had more people buying coffee when the booted the geeks and their laptops.
They didn't boot geeks and their laptops, they booted freeloaders with laptops. They also booted legitimate customers with laptops. If the new ambiance of no laptops draws a better crowd on the weekends, great.
I'm curious what this would do for the weekdays.
Now this particular business could go through the expense of setting up some sort of pay as you go wi-fi system, but there is no guarantee that such a system would be a good investment. Especially considering that the business sells more coffee with the wi-fi turned off.
Time=money and it takes money to make money. Sometimes risks pay off.
It doesn't take a lot of horsepower to run this type of software and there is open source software pieces to help. I know how I would do it if I owned a coffee shop
if you use a timed-password system with POS integration, then does that mean you've paid for access?
No. It means you bought a cup of coffee and are a paying customer. As such you enjoy the benefits of a paying customer. Just like countless other places put up signs like "bathrooms are for paying customers only"
so you've gone from customers being happy about the extra customer service, to apparently setting up a whole new product with its own customer service requirements to deal with their demands.for example, if the net connection goes down for half an hour, do you get another password to make sure you get all your time?
You don't owe them anything. They paid for a cup of coffee not internet access. Internet access is free for paying customers. Unless you want to charge. Sometimes the bathrooms are out of order too. If you want you can use your own discretion and give the cashier the ability to click a button and generate another access key.
do you guarantee a minimum speed?
Absolutely, and if their interet connection slows down, promptly refund their $0.00 they paid for the service.
can you advertise you offer free wifi anymore without radio-ad-style disclaimers? if you're now charging for the service, since you're making purchase a requirement, are you now officially an ISP? is YOUR ISP going to have problems with you reselling service? are you bound by any ISP laws? do you need to keep logs? etc etc etc etc etc...
On approved credit, some restrictions apply, check your state and local laws and internet provider for details.
Why should this be any different than anything else you do to run a business. Because it is IT related, you don't have to do any research? What about about tax laws? What about health regulations? What about employee wages/benefits? What happens if the coffee is too hot for someone's lap?
Sure, there's a market for a product that a service that doesn't bring in more revenue for the company.
This slashdot article does not prove that wifi service will not bring in more revenue.
All it proved is that freeloaders leaving made room for paying customers.