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A Coffeeshop's Weekends Without Wi-Fi
Glenn Fleishman writes "Victrola Cafe and Art in Seattle is a popular coffeeshop that offers free Wi-Fi--except on the weekends. In an experiment, the cafe started shutting down its Wi-Fi network on Saturdays and Sundays after watching their culture erode: the shop became full (and was turning away customers) with six-to-eight hour Wi-Fi squatters, many of whom didn't even purchase anything. Their second Sunday without Wi-Fi was one of their best revenue days in some time. I don't propose a Wi-Fi (or free Wi-Fi) backlash, but it's interesting how with some time under their belt, the clash of inward facing technology and outward facing culture hit these particular entrepreneurs' limit."
Lesse, they don't want to enforce the "buy something or get out" rule? Their loss...
At last, a reason to talk to people!
Easy Solution: Make people buy something to use wifi, and propose a 2-hour limit, or however much you deem necessary.
...they caught on to us!!!!
-Anonymous Coward
An esasier solution would be to just have hourly changing codes to enter that would be given to people who boutght something, that way, squatters would have to buy stuff every hour and therefore not be squatters anymore.
Obviously what they ought to do is give time-limited wifi passkeys that can be "charged" when the customer buys a product. That way they don't get lingerers/squatters who are only there for the wifi without having to pay.
The higher the receipt, the longer the passkey works. It's a decent system, if not a little burdensome for freeloaders.
The question becomes, How easily or feasible would it be to put such a system into practice?
Well, well, no surprise here. "Free" wifi surely attracts the cheap folks who either cannot afford or will not shell out $50+ for high-speed bandwidth.
Coffeeshops are certainly nice places to hang out. I can see how the addition of free internet would easily cause problems in such an environment. I, personally, enjoy buying a $3.00 drink and sitting for two hours. I can't see how they can possibly make much revenue with such customer habits. Hopefully this works out for them
I always though a good solution would be to give a code on the back of the recipt that would give you free wifi for 20 minutes, with the clock automatically starting from the time of purchase. Set the minimum price that gets the code to a medium coffee and a cookie. Yum. Cookies.
In an experiment, the cafe started shutting down its Wi-Fi network on Saturdays and Sundays after watching their culture erode: the shop became full (and was turning away customers) with six-to-eight hour Wi-Fi squatters, many of whom didn't even purchase anything.
Considering that most people have Internet at home, on campus, or at work, this is just a rude thing to do. Coffee shops provide Wifi so you can relax with a cup of coffee in a comfortable atmosphere while still being able to get that little extra bit of work done. There's no way that's accomplished by squatting in the coffee shop for 8 hours on end. If that's you, get some manners, and get a life.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Is Business. They need to make a profit, and having people just sitting around not giving them their money isn't profitable. Such is capitalism.
...leave it to a few miscreants to ruin it for the majority.
First you tell me that giving away WiFi doesn't actually bring more customers in. Next you'll tell me that making illegal copies of music doesn't help artists make money, or that you can't just give software away and make money on services.
Couldn't they give out a coupon good for N hours of wi-fi access with each purchase. The coupon would have an activation code that the user would type in when connecting to the network.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Isn't this yet another syndrom associated with advancing technology? I can understand wanting to sneak in a few minutes of productivity during a quiet moment of opportunity but have always tried being discreet (and discrete). But I've seen the described behavior in a local Chicago coffee shop... squatters who were there at different times of the day as I passed through. Not only did they not really appear to be paying customers, they:
I have a friend who has a startup refreshment shop, and foot traffic and available space for paying customers is precious. These shop owners aren't making any fortune with their stores, they (at least my friend) do it out of love of the job (interacting with long-time customers, meeting new people, becoming an established figure of the local community).
I also have another friend who frequents a local Seattle coffee shop a lot. It seems from talking with him he is an honorable patron, but I do get the impression he doesn't interact much with anyone there.
Cell phones, laptops, pdas, portable music devices... they all have driven a somewhat asocial behavior. In public it's mostly annoying, maybe a little rude, sometimes outright boorish, but in a coffe shop, good for the owners to shut down the wireless on weekends (for example...). Sounds like they made a right move based on the almost immediate response and thanks received from regulars.
Frankly, the day cell phones and laptops, etc. become totally uncool in public can't come too soon for me. In the meantime (shameless plug) if you're looking for more social ways of using technology consider and look into BookCrossing.com. It's been mentioned here on slashdot before -- it's a cool way of using technology to share books (something a little less technical, and a lot more social).
Personally I like to hang out in coffee shops for the smell. Although, how anyone could smell that sweet necter of the gods and not buy anything is a mystery to me.
"A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes." -Mahatma Gandhi
Surely they can come up with a system that uses a purchaseable card with a set number of minutes of wifi usage.
I suppose there might be a problem if you were in the middle of a download and the card expired, but caveat empty.
2. ???? -> Take away WiFi
3. Profit!
There's quite a few ways to get rid of Wi-Fi geeks:
Firstly, open the curtains, turn on the lights, and turn the aircon up above 20 degrees C. Do this every hour on the hour and the shop will clear to cries of "Nooooo, the Day Star!"
Alternatively, confuse them by putting herbal sleep powder in the coffee and cola. They'll feel more drowsy, so buy more cola and coffee. Problem solved. Every few purchases, give them one infused with Penguin Mints (for added caffeine)
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a trendy coffee and art cafe worried about their profits. what's the world coming to? pissed about people getting something for free on the dime of someone else? damn. i thought they were the socially conscious type. guess they're evil capitalists too. life's over.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I'm actually a bit torn on this issue. I understand the problems with squatters and would be frustrated if I were the coffee shop, but I love having the free wi-fi at our local coffee shops. I like the idea many are proposing with timed tickets and the like.
:-P
Coffee shops are in a delicate predicament when it comes to users. My fiance was once asked to leave a coffee shop for playing a board game there. They had chess boards at the shop, and my fiance and his friends had each bought more than $10 worth of food and drinks. Unfortunately, they were there at the time the coffee shop was trying to transition to a wine bar for the evening, and they would have harmed the "atmosphere."
Personally, I think what should really have us up in arms is the state of wifi at airports. They want something like $7/hour for their services! I know they can get it from business people, so it's a wise business decision (in a sense), but aren't airports bad enough these days? Give me a break.
Live free or die
It used to be a great place were you could go drink a great cup of coffee and probably meet a cute indy chick, but ever since WiFi, everyone is so buried in their iBooks updating their MySpace page that no one talks to each other.
The best part is watching the the Seattle Craigslist Missed Connection page fill up with "You are a cute 20 that something redhead sitting over there in the corner. Damn I wish you'd close your iBook so I could talk to you." posts.
Something that will prompt you with a menu, allows you to order, you pay with a credit card and get a wifi connection immediately or you pay the coffee girl when she brings you your order and you get the connection when she completes the transaction.
Well, maybe I should have patented this before I wrote this post.
Oh how sad! They lost their regular clientele of pot-smoking hippies who have nothing better to do than sit around in coffee shops, talking about how much they hate America and love Socialism.
Stay in Capitol Hill, faggots. That way we can fence you in when you get too out of control.
IS there any sort of fix for their situation? Perhaps a transparent proxy of some sort that only allows any given user to use the 'net for a limited time after they've put in a fresh code.. Perhaps integrating the code generation into a computerized POS.. X dollar amount equals Y amt of access time..
Does anyone know of a solution for this situation?? Also, is there an open source POS system anywhere out there? That'd be an incredibly useful thing for small business people.
This is exactly what some coffee shops do. You order something. They press a button, printing out a code that you tap into your browser for access for 2 or whatever hours.
to attract *paying* customers. Once again, the actions of a few spoil it for everyone else.
Eventually, some sort of ettiquette will work it's way to the surface, as it has with bulletin boards or email. I make it a point to a) seek out coffee shops with free wifi (www.delocator.net) and buy something as a sign of appreciation for the free connection. Would it kill the freeloaders to buy a small cup of decaf at the very least?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
We here in Personal Telco Project ( http://www.personaltelco.net/ )country, that being Portland Oregon, have not seen this particular behavior go on. In fact we have seen the exact flip side in most of the cafes we help get nodes into.
There are several coffe houses who can point to the day the PTP node went in as the day thier revenues went up, noticably.
There are communities that can point to the day some one put up a neighborhood node to as the day folks started spreading the goodness.
We have found that when folks put up a Free Wifi Node and all that it can entail (not just internet access but community based local content (web, daap, zeroconf, ftp, distro repositories , etc etc) the community of users are enriched and the people hosting the node are not abused to the point of wanting to turn it off.
Maybe we are truly in the right place at the right time with the right mix of citizens, who are the riches of any city as b!x will tell you. Im not sure whats cooking up there in Seattle but i hope it gets better.
-tomhiggins
www.personaltelco.net
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
... find that they have less space in their lives for other people, less space for God (if religious), less space even for themselves. All they have is stuff - and emptiness.
This isn't really OT. It's the background for this issue. Do the owners want the coffeeshop to be a place for people to be isolated with their stuff? Kudos to them for making it a place where people are gently pushed to break out of their self-imposed solitary confinement.
A coffeeshop is so much more than a place that sells coffee...
all those squatters were fucking linux, movie pirating nerds who read slashdot. they should have kicked them out and shot them in the face with a gun and killed the the thieves.
This will all sort itself out when every cafe has free WIFI. Then you won't end up with some being busy while others aren't. I frequent a place that has WIFI and that is very laptop-friendly and I can say for sure that they do a lot of business because of it. Even the lingerers spend money because they want coffee and they get hungry and want donuts and bagels.
Turn that old smoking section into the geek section.
/. with mine...
If you only allow computers in half the shop, the paying customers will chase the deadbeats out.
Hey dude, I see you're done with your coffee. How about moving on so I can enjoy
No response, kick the chair out from under his ass...
Buy something $10 or greater....authorize your MAC and/or receive a login/pass for 3 hours.
Next problem?
Paying for access doesn't solve this cafe's problem, which is not so much the moochers as it is the environment where everybody just stares at a screen all day instead of socializing.
I have come up with a solution that fixes both problems. An AP that does intermittent access, so that you can connect, but after enough time to do a basic session of E-mail or web research, it refuses you for 5 minutes.
I outline more about the solution of intermittent wifi in this blog entry
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
I was about to post another joke, which would go inevitably unread by most.
/. has done this on intent, after oh so many useless posts -- many by yours truly, of course :-\
I suppose
Hence letting ACs without any points, as this discourages many... you don't post if you lose all hope of being read, even if you don't care about karma (like me).
This is to maximize signal-to-noise ratio, I imagine -- the old efficiency thing in other clothes.
Alas, this is bad.
If you sow 1000 seeds and 20 germinate this is better than sowing only 50 and getting 15 germinated.
Albeit less eficient.
If the 2 hr token code on receipts is too much trouble, one thought would be a wifi router that takes note of the mac address and gradually throttles down bandwidth or puts up a nag message on port 80 requests after the mac address has been in use for too long. Could even be a variable sized time window so that on those busy weekends you only get 1/2 hr but on a slow monday afternoon you get 4 hours.
I don't know of any wifi routers that do this, but it seems like an easy idea to implement and wouldn't require anything from the cash register or employees.
Sure, people can spoof their mac address and get another 2 hrs (or whatever) but it most people wouldn't bother and it sounds like they don't mind a few people hanging out, they just don't want a sea of laptops.
Our two main carriers, Telstra and Optus, here in Australia have a soluttion to that - $10 per 15 minutes for WiFi access, thank you very much. There are other operators who charge less (but not much less), but they are very sparce. There are very, very few 'free' hotspots, no matter how much coffee you buy.
It's funny to see how everyone here is an expert in business, marketing, general human psychology, and the like. "Charge for this", "put up signs for that", "only allow this"...it's not that easy.
There is a fine balance between welcoming people that will eventually turn into customers and attracting hordes of freeloaders, from enforcing a policy that keeps paying customers happy while they surf to appearing to be too harsh like you're running a police state in your store. Let's face it...each restaurant, each cafe, each location in a city has its own unique needs. The Panera Bread that offers free WiFi in a college town may need to have a monitor walk the store and ask abusers of the free WiFi to leave while the Panera in a DC suburb may have mindful users that monitor themselves as they come in, grab lunch, surf, and leave. Timed access codes may work for some places, purchase-required policies may be needed in others, and some may be able to offer it 24/7 without incident.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
I think not. Try implementing that.
My other Sig is
Just set up bandwidth shaping so that each MAC address gradually starts slowing way down after an hour. Slow, not stopped, means they have a chance to finish their work and log off cleanly. They'll get the idea. I've seen this in other contexts; it works well and minimises arguments and overhead.
---
Copyright is a privilege, not a right.
You don't need an encryption key, just a passworded proxy... preferably with an autoconfiguration URL so that users can easily set it up (and then enter a password).
Would it kill the freeloaders to buy a small cup of decaf at the very least?
That may not be good enough. In Hawaii there was a vote on outlawing smoking in buildings. One restraunt owner being interviewed pointed out that they had already done so voluntarily and it greatly improved business, contrary to the popular wisdom. They pointed out that they had much better table turnover without the smokers, and that the smokers were often only buying a coffee but occupying a table for a long time.
Yes this is a restraunt not a coffee shop but the point is that wifi'ers, like smokers, occupy a finite resource, table space, disproportionately to their purchase. The wifi'ers can only be tolerated if table space is abundant.
There was a coffee shop in New Orleans airport that had something similar to this. You had to buy coffee and printed on the receipt was a code you punched in which gave you access to their "free" network. I of course was too cheap of a bastard to buy coffee.
I think a 2 hour limit should be good enough for coffee. If someone blows through that two hours but is a legitimate customer, either the customer should have no problem buying another cup in 2 hours or the shop should have no problem saying "hey, you spent 2 hours on your cup. Please buy another or give your seat to paying customers"
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
I know one Cafe that has internet access for customers only. It is all wi-fi. All you need to do is get a good sniffer, sit there a while, find a MAC address, clone it as yours, and you have free access.
A better option is to kick all the bums out, make it known they are not welcome. Or have an area where the bums can sit, that does not take up customer space.
You know what they do in France? To sit in a cafe, you must pay. Even to drink a water. They sell the right to sit in a Cafe. If all the tables were by reservation only, that would take care of the Bums. Make it a small charge, like 50 cents for an hour, or free with purchase of beverage. Put a time stamp on the reciept that is color coded. When someone is more than one color code away from their time block, ask them to leave.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Well, you have to understand that coffee is a premium product. If you just wanted caffeine then you could get it anywhere and cheaper than a coffeehouse. Before the big internet/starbucks revolution coffeehouses were a lot more social (the article goes into this). Sure some people would read books, but a stranger would come up to you and ask you if you want to play chess too.
Or you'd find yourself involved into a conversation about philosophy.
Not to mention, coffeehouses are image based, so some people are going to be turned off by a place populated with 10 people staring into their laptops taking up two seats, reaching for power cables, etc. Its like hanging out at kinkos. Might as well walk to the coffee place up the street.
Call them snobs, or whatever, but thats how people act. I do it all the time with bars. If I'm in a place I dont like I suggest we take off. If I dont like the crowd, even though I'm not going to talk to them, I still dont want to hang around them. I dont want to listen to, say, 80s music, in a non-ironic way, etc. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.
So then you just change your MAC address!
Why would you willingly goto a place with lots of people sitting around on laptops?
:)
Those are the last people on the planet I want to be around to socialize with. That's my crowd for work or a confined to a LUG setting, and the upcoming WWDC of course
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
works for The Office. They even have enough to spring for aerons and bose noise cancelling headphones. and i don't have to be guilted/forced into buying a muffin every 20 minutes.
for extra geek cred, joss whedon wrote 'serenity' there.
So I'm going to be a hypocrite on this one. I spent a lot of time writing my thesis on a laptop in a coffee house. But over time, I've started to really find the idea that you should turn up to a place that's (to some extent) meant to be a "third place" - that is, an escape from both home and work - and annex it as yet another place to do work. It's particularly annoying when people decide that not only are they going to camp out for 8 hours with their laptops, they're going to use the place as a mobile office, too. That is: make and receive lots of cell phone calls), give loud business presentations, have loud and uninteresting bull sessions.
I'm not an extremist on this. Obviously people are going to homework, write papers and do work stuff while out. But there's definitely a class of people out there who need to Get an Office!
If that's you, do us all a favor and stop pretending that your work is so damn interesting that we all want to hear about it, ok?
tried to enforce that? IF, as they say, the place had reached capasity, then it would be a sea of people. Are you going to go around insulting peopole who actually purchased something and throw it away when done? Nothing like making your real customers feel like squatters to discourage repeat business. And the real squatters would simply lie and say they did buy something. It NEVER works out as simply as you think.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Seriously, though. It could work ;)
mattdev@server$ touch
cannot touch `/dev/genitals': Permission denied
For Irony try downloading "Revenge of the Sith" while there.
"It's just really really difficult. We've had so many heated debates about it. We want people to linger at the cafe. We're not a fast-food coffeeshop. We want people to feel comfortable staying here as long as they please," Strongin said.
I would be more likely to stay if there is Wi-Fi.
i've noticed that most of the coffeeshops i still like to go to just to drink coffee and hang out with people have limited numbers of people using laptops. i've also noticed that the reason not many people use laptops is the shop has few or no publicly accessible power outlets. ie your laptop use is limited to the life of your battery - the kind of people who want to spend six hours hunched over their laptop are go elsewhere.
i'm waiting to see how long it takes places drowning in the 'six hour wifi session and one cup of coffee people' to just blank their power outlets off. way less hassle than trying to enforce purchase per hour rules or other annoyances.
i'm kind of waiting for if you want to use your laptop, you're limited to battery life
a good system will be given limited time access to customers who purchase at the store. therefor lock out the squatters. (maybe even implement a system where customer can order it via their wifi device. this way they don't need to even leave the chair and place order )
the biggest challenge I see on those place is the implementation. a mom and pop place will not have the resource to implement a rated wifi service. so it's probably free or nothing design you see that's common everywhere.
but again, this might come down to a culture/society issue.. why do people flock to free wifi spots? we are at the age that almost everyone has internet access in many places(home, work, school)why does it have to be a coffee shop? what does it provide that you can't get at home or other places? (for squatters, it certainly is NOT food/drinks) is it the *IN* thing to do?
Profit makes you
"Please. You can't fix social problems with technological solutions."
"Please. You can't fix social problems with technological solutions."
Are you joking? I don't even know where to start. Let's start with this. You are at a computer somewhere in the world. If semiconductors were to vanish tomorrow, wherever you are, your government would collapse, the balance of power in the world would be thoroughly shaken from head to foot, and millions, if not billions of people would die within a year.
Take the same number of people in New York, drop then in a forest the same size as New York, and watch how quickly society implodes upon itself without the technological infrastructure to support it.
Clearly, technology is doing something. Technology and society are so tightly tied together that you can't untangle one from the other without destroying something.
I know some times when we bang things out on the keyboard they sound really insightful and intelligent, but some times we need to respect the preview button, read what we read, and decide if it really is insightful, or a load of thoughtless crap.
I can't stand coffee. I could see my self needing internet, and trying a coffee shop without buying anything (though I would first look at their pastry selection, and buy one if there were any). However if the shop is half full I'd walk right out, if not I ask if they mind. Even then I pay attention, when the shop gets half full I'm out anyway.
When I'm just a body surrounded by empty seats it costs nothing. When I'm a non-paying body taking up a seat a customer could otherwise take I'm costing them. In fact you could argue that my presence makes it look like the place is more 'happening', which could attract customers.
I consider this basic.
What's to prevent people from asking their neighbor: "Hey, what's the current connection code/SSID/key?"
I suppose you could restrict browsers to only IE and AOL on Windows. Those who would be most likely to abuse the wifi are the tech "elite", so they'd have already self-selected themselves out of the user pool by using Linux and Firefox.
If you buy something there is a 2 hour limit (unless you buy something else).
I've been to many a place in both Boston/Cambridge & Dublin, that won't let you stay more then 2 hours unless you purchase something else.
I have a very small mind and must live with it.
-- E. Dijkstra
So then you just change your MAC address!
Considered that. Only a small percentage will do it and they can be dealt with separately. Just disconnecting once an hour is going to be hassle and if the cofeeshop cared they could do client recognition with proxies and encrypted cookies etc.
In any case it's tables they care about, not the network, and if they see somebody on a table for an extended period and the place is full they can do something about it.
---
Keep your options open!
Put the encryption key on the receipt, and automate this process.
It seems like a lot of people are missing the point. To some degree this story is about a coffee shop with a wifi-squatter problem, but the original post seems to be about more than imposing network usage rules.
More important is that constant internet access was destroying the coffee shop culture. This is interesting. Usually we say Internet==Good, more Internet==More Good, but this case provides a counter point.
I ahve to buy something to use there restroom. Even though people HAVE to go to the bathroom.
But if I want free Wi-Fi, I don't have to buy something? And then people use this service and not buy anything? I'm shocked I tells you, shocked!
Generate a random code that give the user 1 hour of service for free. Put it on the reciept. Before issuing a number, ask if they need the service, if not, no number.
I onow people who go to a fast food place, plug their laptop in, order a smal beverage, and then sit there all day working and drinking free refills. Absolutly rude.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
A few decades ago, some restaurants and bars used to have prominent signs out front announcing that their premises were air-conditioned. Back then, not all places were, so on, say, a scorching July evening in a small town in the Kansas prairie, an air-conditioned bar or restaurant could reasonably expect to have an edge over the non-AC competition. I'm sure many proprietors noticed some of their "customers" lingering for hours over a half-eaten piece of pie or a single beer while they gabbed to their friends, obviously looking for a cheap or free way to escape the unbearable heat outside or in their homes.
Nowdays, when virtually every place of public accomodation has AC, there are no doubt still people who might nurse a single latte for hours in the local coffee shop to escape an unbearably hot apartment, but they're not going to be numerous enough to be a burden on the system. After all, there are plenty of places with AC they can go to.
The problem with Wi-Fi moochers is no doubt a real one now, but it will solve itself in time. Although it's not happening fast enough to suit me, the trends are toward free and ubiquitious Wi-Fi. When that day comes, and they're distributed among all of the bars, restaurants, coffee shops and libraries in a a given area, no one will worry about the one or two Wi-Fi moochers in their establishment at a given moment.
Wanting to turn a perfectly good internet cafe into a coffee shop!
For every present, there is a past
Why not do something similar to what has been done for people that smoke, create a WiFi section, and a non-WiFi section. People with laptops and etc, should go to the WiFi section of the coffee place. There, they could specifically do things like locking electrical outlets so people have to run off their battery. When the battery is out, they are done. Also, they could put this section in a part of the coffee house which doesn't restrict patronage. Thus all the customers that don't use WiFi get prime seating and service, etc.
Do like one of my local places does: print the key on the receipts.
And make space for paying customers.
WIFI squatters?
"Hello sir, how about a nice warm boot to the ass on your way out?"
but can someone please give a free / simple way of doing that?
Does anyone know one of those systems that only let ppl surf on the store webpage and to access the rest of the internet you have to put an username/password ?
I've been looking for this for a long time, but haven't found none
...seems to work for most places. Most people's computers only work for 1-2 hours (most batteries aren't in top condition). So unless people bring more than one battery (unlikely for broke WiFi squatters), you can get them to leave by just not providing plugs.
Stupidly, some coffeehouses have plugs all over the place anyway. Often this is left over from a previous restaurant business, where they had a lamp on every table, etc.
So if you want people to limit their stay, just limit the electricity!
It seems social problems beg for social solutions, and most of the solutions I've seen in the replies are different varities of how to make sure only paying customers get the wifi. That's not a bad idea, but it doesn't solve the problem of a lack of atmopshere. (BTW: rolls of tickets like fairs use come cheap. Don't let numbers be used twice, and lock out a MAC after a few wrong guesses.)
Anyway, my solution: On the first hit to any page from a new MAC, or on a new token, go to a site for the coffee shop. Have a web-based chat there. Encourage your patrons to use it, post news there, etc. The idea is to get the geeks to come out of their shells for a bit. Try to get the "missed connections" stuff on there, and perhaps the cute girl on the iBook will see it in time.
And if that doesn't work, well, perhaps turning off the wifi is a good idea.
Even if you buy a drink every time, WiFi squatting is often cheaper than broadband at home. Not everyone has to be online constantly, just an hour or two a few days a week.
Plus, it's a pay as you go system, with no monthly bill to worrry about. As long as you can scrounge some change out of the couch for a cup of tea...
i'm kind of waiting for if you want to use your laptop, you're limited to battery life
That won't stop the madcore wifi squatters from bringing a buncha batteries with them to power their laptop(s). Do they care if they have about 5 minutes of downtime (or so) to swap out a dead/dying laptop battery for a fresh one?
If there is a will, there is a way (to exploit/abuse a common resource available to the general public at large [like email]).
interesting how with some time under their belt, the clash of inward facing technology and outward facing culture hit these particular entrepreneurs' limit.
I read this several times I don't really know what the heck it says???
Inward facing technology?
I used to be a big fan of Starbucks, but lately I've completely stopped buying their coffee as they insist on charging $6/hr for their T-Mobile hotspot, while I can get free wifi at number of locally owned coffee shops around town.
I bring a lot of business to these places, and always make sure to tip well. That's money they never would have seen without the wi-fi differentiator.
--
http://joshstaiger.org/
In Japan, there are an increasing number of locations with similar free WiFi. Most people seem to have the sense not to sit there for hours on without buying more than a single cup of coffee. That still seems to be cultrually associated with teenagers, who usually aren't the WiFi users anyhow. (And they hang out in places like McDonald's where an entire meal costs about the same as a cup of coffee elsewhere.)
That said, there are occasionally some people that will occupy an entire table for 4 with papers etc. It's welcome when traffic is low and no one's really losing anything. But when business starts to pick up (weekends, lunch time, what not) they're usually, quite simply, asked to leave because there are more customers waiting to be seated. No one usually makes a fuss, and it works. The customer is packed up and gone, and business relations are still kept intact.
One thing I can imagine in the U.S. though, is some people throwing a fit at such suggestions from the proprietors. I say kick them out and tell them they're not welcome back. Why not? It makes perfect business and social sense. It makes the frequenters happy knowing that the owners are interested in keeping the atmosphere good. No need for timed-keys activated on purchase, and when business is really slow, it's probably better to have someone in the shop working on a laptop than no one at all. (People attract people, an empty store repels people.)
Post some rules. They don't need to read like legal documents, just point out the obvious. Such rules don't need to be intrusive either, just print them on the menu. Even chain operations can implement this, just make a manual. It's cheaper than reconfiguring the network. Just make sure that you point out the reason why you're asking/telling someone to leave. In most cases I suspect they'll be a bit embarrased that they were being a pain in the ass, and just move on. They're welcome back later.
Again, a common sense solution to a common sense problem. It's not a technology problem, so don't bother applying technological solutions. They'll cause more trouble than they fix. K.I.S.S.!
Can be tailored to almost any need, and is open source. Is very flexible.
Requirements:
- Just about any old or new PC with 2 NICs
- A plain vanilla router on one NIC to connect to your provider (linksys, netgear etc...)
- A Wi-fi AP or a regular hub on the the other NIC to connect clients
All said and done.... if youve got an old PC lying around your investment is a little time, and maybe 50$ or so bucks for the AP and/or the router.If you need to buy a PC, any old refurb or a cheapo PC can be had for under 300$.
With just a tiny bit of tinkering, you can modify it to make your Access point require a purchase (a coffee for 2 hours access?) --VISION, Enjoy
--Idiots, Every single one of YOU, A flaming mass of conglomerated morons, hey wait a second, isnt that how RAID works?
I frequent wifi cafe's as the coffee stays hotter longer.
I believe the idea is that it would be less of a hassle to just go somewhere that has power outlets (their house maybe?). Buying and carrying lots of laptop batteries is neither economical nor "coffee house cool".
"There are more important things than stopping terrorism. Upholding the Constitution is one of them." - Ars Forumer.
They can't do that. Internet access WANTS to be free. It's evil to force people to pay for something of value.
The world will be a much better place when everyone gets everything they want for free. These "businesspeople" are just greedy bastards who are trying to opress the masses.
And what's this with paying for the coffee? I don't have to pay for my coffee at work, so why should I have to pay for the coffee at the coffee shop? Coffee wants to be free, too.
Anyone who opposes the Open Coffee and Open Wi-Fi movement is clearly a slave of Bill Gates. They must be stopped. Someone should do something about them. Me, I'm too busy looking for free broadband internet access to liberate my mp3s, movies, and software.
I hate it when I make a joke and I get modded "+5 insightful". Mod the stupid comments "funny", not "insightful", pleas
The purchase rule they instituted seems to have stopped any squatting (except for my friend who uses the connection to play World of Warcraft in his car after hours- and even he buys things during the day!).
I suspect that in the case of the coffee shop in question, the squatters were simply taking up space where the normal coffee-buyers would have otherwise sat. Probably, the ultimate solution would be to institute a buying policy, but a fairly lenient one. After all, sometimes I come in and I can only afford a couple of Cokes over the course of a few hours- but they know I buy stuff whenever I come in (a lot of times the more pricey stuff), and so they don't hassle me about it. That's the kind of thing that makes me want to come back to a business. I didn't even like coffee the first time I came in!
"Sometimes it takes more than an axe and a busload of strangers to work through your anger." -Rikk Estoban
#3, that is.
All you need is a POS macro for the "coupon printer". Even if your POS isn't normally configured to print an extra coupon segment, it should be easy to print a randomly-generated passkey as if it were a randomly-generated coupon. The passkeys would expire after 2 hours.
Here in L.A. it's especially annoying because we have lots of actors and screenwriters who use Starbucks as their production office. Personally, I don't think one cup of $4 coffee justifies using a whole table for your office all day, plus electricity. There should just be a time limit for everyone- to give customers a chance to come and go. One thought I had, can you get the WiFi signal if you sit outside the location? Why not have some overflow seating outside for the squatters? Of course, as was mentioned above, removing access to power outlets would probably eliminate a lot of this problem. Then again, maybe these coffee shops need to be redesigned to allow for more people, and for social gatherings- like bars. Have a fooseball table, a pool table, daycare, petcare, etc.
More power to 'em. In fact, I'd suggest that anyone entering w/ any electronic info device (yes, including cellphones) on the weekend be shown the exit and visited with a hail of derisive boos and laughter.
007: "Who are you?"
Pussy: "My name is Pussy Galore."
007: "I must be dreaming..."
Wifi turned off on weekends is good because gamers and casual users won't be endlessly taking up space. Furthermore, it's all about the atmosphere that distinguishes the better coffee houses from regular ones...and Wifi hurts rather than helps that atmosphere in most cases.
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
That is the problem but the way the place is laid out. It has hard back chairs (libary style) with hardtop slate tables which each seat between 2-4 people. Reminds me of a restaurant evey time I walk in there. Perfect for studying, but no "community" feeling about it. Can you imagine walking up to another person's table at a restaurant and striking up a conversation? It would be a bit awkward.
The owners lament about the erosion of culture being the cause is pure BS. Make no mistake, this is simply about $$$$, nothing else.
Just up the street though is the non-profit Cafe Perkatory which is laid out like a living room with soft chairs, nice rug on the floor, and great Wi-Fi. And there is no complaints about erosion of culture there. Almost every time I walk into the place I am gauranteed to strike up a conversation with a new and interesting person.
However, if Perkatory isn't your "Cup 'O Tea" then you can always try one of the hundreds of other weekend Wi-Fi enabled coffee shops in seattle which are conveinently listed here.
I'm not a big famous coffeeshop but I have my share of customers. Even though I like to occasionally surf the web to see if I can chat with other coffeeshops (it's lonely being a coffeeshop), it's really affected my self-esteem. I feel very used, like people forgot why I'm here (hint: coffee, you idiot!). I suppose they were always here just because of some or other product, I felt like I was a part of giving coffee to my customers, via my slav..employees. Now they just come to hook up and tune out. I'm left watching the little lights on the router flash. I'm tempted to pour coffee in their fucking laptops, but pulling the plug on their connection has made them realize that I do matter and that I am in control.
Change the priorities around if you want a different business model and still make some loot. Have a "WiFi hangout shop" that also has coffee and munchies on the side, plus maybe sell hardware??? Possibly get customers and be competitive by offering a faster connection than the "coffee shops with free wifi" guys. Charge by the hour or something like that, maybe make it a club you can join and get a month/yearly severe discount rate. Offer a choice, too, ethernet or wireless at the table. So much an hour (reasonable), and free coffee!
Hah. I can tell you right now, it has very little to do with the $$$$.
I'm friends with both Kyle, head barista trainer there, and Tony, head roaster there. Victrola Coffee is a place that is unbelievably dedicated to coffee. They are not in the business for making $$$, because the margins in Specialty Coffee are quite frankly absolute crap. They're in the business to make the best possible espresso period. Which is why they get consistently reviewed as one of the top if not the top cafe in seattle in terms of quality.
They care about community and they care about coffee. If they were in it for the $$$$ they would be serving crap starbucks coffee and paying their Baristas minimum wage.
Why not tie wifi access to a number printed on the receipts...I am sure there is a POS system out there that can print up a random serial number from a database...make it valid for the like a whole hour.
All you would have to do is enter your code via a browser...If they wanted a new code, they would have to buy a new cup of coffee every hour or so...some hotels already have something similar for wifi access from rooms.
Here's something the Boston Wireless Advocacy Group has done to try to help address that issue as per http://www.bostonwag.org/projects/etiquette.html:
WiFi Do's and Don'tsBostonWAG created a set of guidelines for users of open wireless networks at venues such as cafes and restaurants
The poster is being distributed to Boston area restaurants and cafes who provide complimentary WiFi. If your establishment provides complimentary WiFi and you'd like to display the poster, please email us at info@bostonwag.org
Two sizes are available as a low res PDF:8 1/2" x 11" (standard size)
11" x 17" (tabloid size)
If you have etiquette tips and suggestions for a future poster or if you have a story about WiFi etiquette that you'd like to share, please email us at info@bostonwag.org.
I think a lot of people here are missing one of the main points of TFA - the interpersonal culture of the coffee shop was disappearing. Instead of being a place where people interact "live" with other human beings, it was turning into a place full of people silently hunched over their laptops. I don't think it's an unreasonable decision to turn off the wifi (at least on the weekend).
If you were a hot dog, and you were starving, would you eat yourself?
The only problem is that it should give warning, somehow, which could be hard.
Pass-codes on the register reciepts is probably a better solution.
Free wifi in the terminals - was awsome!
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
Did someone say something about Hitler? Nazi's?
"A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.'" - DNA
I'd say that the main reason (other than travel) to use wifi in the coffee house is if you don't have broadband at home. However, most people don't aquire a wifi card until they get broadband, unless their laptop comes with one.
The other reason for using it is, say you want to get away from the office in the afternoon, but still need to be available. But in that case, I'd rather have wifi in a bar.
I'm sure there are plenty of "for pay" hotspots to serve the needs of the business traveller.
I have to say I really hate those blackberries (a.k.a. Crackberries). To me it is extremely rude for anyone to use one of those devices at a restaurant.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
I would like to see most of you open a coffee shop. Wi-Fi would be truly the least of your concerns. I'm not anti-Wifi but I don't think playing Wi-Fi fascist makes for good business either. There's a limit to everything...
As a customer, I personally like the idea of folks actually being social in coffee shops and not staring into laptops, or on cell phones, or plugged into an ipod. Technology is cool. Just disconnect from it from time to time. You'll have more fun talking to real people and the owner makes a buck.
I'm thrilled to see the everything should be free socialists take a defeat.
Where do you want to be, What are you doing to get there.
The epic story of Victrola's wifi issues as told by their master coffee roaster and self-confessed 'net junkie: http://tonx.org/index.php/archives/coffee-wi-fi-an d-the-decline-of-western-civilization/
"The U.S. Constitution - not perfect, but its better than what we have now"
Maybe in Seattle there's so damn many coffeehouses that there's not much loyalty? It's a competitive market, so it's not a surprise to me that there are callous people who take advantage of the wireless freebie. Or, maybe that's how Seattle people are. I don't know.
My own California experience with 802.11-enabled coffee places is very different: there does seem to be an ethic of supporting the establishment.
Yes, I've done four-hour sits at Coffee Critic in Ukiah, CA using their access for work stuff, but I also buy lots of coffee there too (and good coffee it is - they roast it on-premises) and did so without the wireless "loss leader". I've easily bought enough product in a year there to pay for the AP, if not the bandwidth.
Jus make them buy a Zyxel access point witch comes with a little printer. Just sell the damn coffee with "free" 30 minutes of WiFi access. The Zyxel prints out a code (receipt with a code), you open your broser and connect to their wireless. Then a page appears asking you to enter the password the cashier gave you when you bought the coffee (yes the printout from the Zyxel.)
1 103876296&indexFlagvalue=1085450343
Damn it, losers!
http://www.zyxel.com/product/model.php?indexcate=
Your wireless are belong to us... get it?
Have a good one.
===== "Every head is a different world so don't invade mine you FREAK!" smartSAGA said
Have an access code/user name on the receipt that alows x hours of access, depending on purchace price. These expire after a month or so, so people can combine receipts and access codes. This can ensure that wi-fi 'freeloaders' have to pay up to play online.
Victrola's wifi sucks, anyway...
there are chunky concrete pillars you have to avoid, the signal is weak.
An hour seems pretty excessive, it takes me maybe a minute to sit down after getting a drink without a laptop, with laptop and school books, maybe 6 minutes. Perhaps you need to get an extra-strong coffee in order to move faster?
When that day comes, and they're distributed among all of the bars, restaurants, coffee shops and libraries in a a given area, no one will worry about the one or two Wi-Fi moochers in their establishment at a given moment.
However, it won't be WiFi (802.11x variants) that will make wireless Internet access available pretty much everywhere. It will take WiMax (802.16/802.20) for the ability to access the Internet wirelessly on a truly large metropolitan scale.
But then, it raises new issues: imagine being able to access broadband Internet at every food eating establishment through WiMax--you're going to have big trouble trying to kick people out of restaurants, coffee shops, bars, and so on because they're hogging seating in eating establishment accessing the Internet through a laptop.
I often walk down the street just for a change of environment. And I find I snack a lot at home, so it's also a matter of controlling calories.
So, not necessarily logical reasons, but they work for me.
Terry Tate: Coffeeshop Linebacker
Nothing deters WIFI squatters more than a blind-side closeline.
"If you ain't drink'n joe, you hittin' the flo'"
That's people for you. Assholes, really. They take an amazing amount of advantage of something that's there for everyone, and ruin it...for everyone. It's the American way, I guess.
The untold part of this story is cafes generally make their money in take out. If someone buys a cup of coffee an hour for 6 hours: $15 at best. + pastry or food.
Starbucks gives away wifi and power and, though they suck, they did manage to shift the price of coffee beans, hot water and paper cups up 500%.
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
Raise their self esteem by going to Walmart to buy all new underwear, and then wait all evening to sing "New York New York" at the karaoke bar.
I must really be out of touch.
When I walk down to "my" local coffee house, I go for their wonderful chai, and the nightly live music .
Only a complete loser would bring their computer to this place.
Coffee houses are crucial part of our social scene, and to fill them up with self absorbed loners by offering them free Wi-Fi, doesn't exactly help the social or dating pool.
Check out PlaceSite: http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/~savage/ps/ a project from SIMS @ Berkeley, all about getting people in a Cafe to not fall victim to the zombie effect and actually talk to each other!
If you shut down the WIFI every hour for say 10 to fifteen minutes, then it's enormously annoying for those who want to spend their whole day there, and not much of a problem for those who want to come in for a coffee and just read some emails.
In a shop selling coffee, call it "coffee break".
"However, most people don't aquire a wifi card until they get broadband, unless their laptop comes with one."
That's not the experience that I have in coffee shops. I know of plenty of people in the 18-30 demographic that only own a laptop for their computer and only use Internet access where it's available free. Amusingly enough they're also the kind of people to take up space in a coffee house without buying much if anything because they're borderline-poor; they grew up not wanting for basics in life and now that they've never had to really work for them before they don't really plant roots to live or to get down to making a professional living of their own.
The broken hinge on my laptop was probably the best thing to happen to me to keep me from falling into that lifestyle myself. When I'm out and about I don't concern myself with Internet access. I'm going on a trip to a science fiction convention tomorrow and I'll be taking a camera, a PDA to look at the pictures from the camera, and travel accessories, and I'll be away from mainstream computer use for about four days. I'm looking forward to it.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
...with a password prompt and the message 'your server will gladly enter the password for you'? I'd wager that having to interact with the wait staff to get connected would dramatically reduce the number of leeches.
Making the world a better place, one psychotic episode at a time.
I never understood sitting in a coffee shop with a laptop for an hour, much less several.
Well one reason is free WiFi, if all you have is Dialup that looks pretty good.
But also they could be there for more nefarious reasons, like gathing child porn or what have you (hate to bring up that boogeyman but you get the general idea).
If I were doing a lot of P2P I think doing it a coffee shop would be a great idea...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Every hour, make an announcement on the PA that the coffee shop would kindly like to remind people that if the tabels are full and you're done eating, please don't linger. I think if you guilt people into doing the right theing they generally will.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I never understood sitting in a coffee shop with a laptop for an hour, much less several.
It's all about checking out the cute high/college/grad school girls hanging out there doing their reading.
My other first post is car post.
I loved the place. I am not a big coffee drinker, but sometimes I would like to go somewhere study, and maybe strike a conversation or two. Deidrich was a great place for a mixture of fun and business/study.
Last week, I had a chance to come back. EVERY single place had a laptop. There they were, hogging every table (both sides to boot!) with headphones. Most of them playing games. It was like a notebook shop. No one is talking, no one is drinking coffee, no place to sit. I left.
This is not a plug for that place, but since they started to have free wifi, I stopped bothering going there since I JUST CANT FIND A PLACE TO SIT! Moreover, the whole social, incindental chat effect is gone as well. But then again, maybe those 10% who monopolize the area, give 90 percent of profits?
Do people who camp in a café with Wi-Fi and not buy anything feel embarrassed with what they're doing?
There is a café over the road from my office and I occasionally meet there with clients. Our wireless network makes the distance and so I can use my own connection while I'm there. Still, because I am using their floorspace and furniture, I always buy a drink as payment for usage of the space.
I would be embarrassed to have someone come up to me to request that I buy something, or leave because I'm using their space without payment.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
Brilliant.
Giving people access codes based on purchases is incredibly lame and hurts the the natural warm vibe of a good coffeeshop.
To All Coffee Shop Owners:
- Give away wifi.
- Gently enforce purchases with use of table space . Aka, more or less ban squatting.
- VERY IMPORTANT: Create laptop zones and/or make laptoppers sit with each other and not hog 4 person tables. It'd probably help people meet each other and it'll conserve space. Alternatively, have lots of little tables that barely fit one laptop.
Problem solved!!
A Victrola Regular
What's ironic is that when our 2600 group in Memphis meets, we have a fun social gathering about technology, not hunched over our laptops quietly the whole time. This despite the stereotype of geeks as socailly awkward and non-geeks as outgoing. We show off our gadgets, sure, but we know we're there to meet people, not play with stuff that we could at home. We have discussions of technology that last for hours, unlike 'normal' patrons that just sit there with their laptops the whole time.
The other irnoic thing is that even though we're good customers, every time we seem to find a good coffeeshop, it goes out of business within a short time - the meeting location in the back of 2600 magazine is sometimes out of business by the time the first magazine with that location comes out. It's gotten to the point where we don't send the magazine our new meeting address until we're sure that place will stay in business, so they don't fall to the "Memphis 2600 Jinx". I suspect it's just competition from the chain coffeeshops, but oh well.
For those interested, the next meeting will be on Friday, June 3 (one week from today) at San Fransisco Bread Company on Germantown Rd. Address here. 6pm, IIRC.
What's funny is that Krystals (a cheap burger place, similar to White Castle) has free Wifi now, but I hardly ever see anyone in there. I guess even wifi freeloaders can't stand their "food"...
Just go round and ask them, nicely and discreetly, to leave. It's not acceptable for some freeloader to sit there for hours on end taking up a seat that could be used by a paying customer. It's your coffee shop after all - you have the right to say who's allowed in and who isn't. Put a sign up warning people if you have to.
So then:
It takes money to make time.
Or:
It takes time to make money. (Sometimes true, though not always)
Or, lastly:
It takes time to make time.
W00t!!! I'm an AC!!!!111!!!
I'm told that 2 San Francisco cafes (Samovar Tea Lounge and Canvas Cafe) now nix the wi-fi on weekends.
Jerry the manager at Canvas kicked out a guy who repeated the following routine for several days: he'd set up office, taking over a large table (even with a stapler), then he'd type and talk on the phone all day after buying 1 cup of coffee.
Lee at A Cuppa Tea in Berkeley kicked out a woman who came in with a coffee from another store, sat down and got going on her laptop w/ zero purchase.
But remember, these are extremes and exceptions. A minority of people will be pricks anywhere, using whatever technology is available.
Beyond wi-fi squatting -- this sounds like a clear case of the Zombie Effect:
http://ze.notlong.com/
Now we'll refine social and technological techniques for discouraging antisocial behavior. Same old saga...
-Sean
I'd love to be in the situation where I could consider sitting down in a coffee shop for an eight hour stint with my laptop. However, because I live in the medieval UK (i.e. outside London) this is never going to happen :-(
Every resteraunt, fastfoodplace, coffeechop, etc I have seen have a sign thats says:
"Restrooms are for customers only."
I hvae seen pay toilets, but those are pretty rare.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
technolgy is intergrated with are society, but it has in no way fixed any societal problems.
WE adapted technology into the way we bahave, not the other wya around.
My favorite farside has a guy sitting in a little flying saucer zipping through the sky. On the roof of this flying saucer is a spilling cup of coffee.
the caption:
"Technology changes, people don't."
BTW, BILLIONS would not die. Most of the world would get along. A billion, at the worst. consider most people in the world never use a computer
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Also, they should kick people out if they sit all day and don't buy anything. Sure, they probably won't come back, but who cares?
Shops in my area have been trying to discourage wi-fi poachers for several months. So many seats would be taken by laptop-toters that potential customers walked away because they couldn't find a place to sit.
So, some have instituted time limits for laptop use without a purchase, while others have cordoned off a few tables for laptop use.
It's a double-edged sword for the shops, who use wi-fi to draw in more customers, but too many poachers mean paying customers leave.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I think it is an overstatement that civilization would collapse without semiconductors. We'd be using a hell of a lot of vacuum tubes, yeah, but....
A coffee shop in Mountain View, CA, offers free wifi, but no power outlets. I think it's brilliant -- you can only wifi-squat for as long as you have battery power. Their coffee is not bad either.
That bathrooms are for paying customers only. They can't stop me from using the bathroom if I'm not a paying customer.
They can feel free to try, but the law is on my side.
One of the cafes I spend time at has a really nice way of limiting WiFi use. They have a little tape printer with three buttons, one for 30, 60, & 90 minutes. When you make a purchase, you ask for some wifi time, they hit a button and hand you a recipt. It has a randomly generated username and password that lasts for just the requested time. I rarely need more than 90 minutes (I usually hook up there before heading to the office). It's nice becuase it's still free, but they can still keep it reasonable with their business needs (only with a purchase, for limited time). This is by far the best setup I've found. Totally free and unlimited is nice, but if it's only on DSL and there are a bunch of WiFi campers, the throughput totally slows down. On the other hand some places charge hourly for wifi, even with a purchase, this just pisses me off.
"You never know when some crazed rodent with cold feet might be running loose in your pants."
-Calvin
And if you RTFA, you'll discover that their seats were all taken up, and people who wanted to buy couldn't get a seat and so left. Additionally, people who liked the vibrant culture of the old coffeehouse might have found the new Nerdville a little less appealing.
Bottom line is that revenue went UP when the WiFi was turned off. So that means that regular customers either 1) now could actually get a table, 2) preferred the new environment, or 3) both.
cubes
Ask me about my vow of silence!
The effect of Coffee Shoppe Culture is a well-understood phenomenon. Basically, the place will attract whatever type of miscreant the culture the shop projects. Obviously "Free WiFi" was a principal attractant for this shop. Ergo, the huge number of loser pedophiles stacking the deck. If the place actually attracted people because of, hmm, let's say, GOOD COFFEE, then they wouldn't have to worry about this.
I drink at Little City. First, I come for the coffee. I hang around and buy more stuff because of the WiFi and music.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
the yuppie leechers go out and spend $120 on a spare battery... to save fifty cents on a cup of coffee.
Leeching, it's not just an activity, it's a way of life.
Although my wife would likely disagree...
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
I'd say it's beneficial to follow the free car wash model when it comes to WiFi access. When I get gasoline at my local pump an buy a fill-er-up, I get a free car wash good for anytime in the next week or so. The access code is right on the receipt.
Using this analogy, buy something $5.00 or more, get a Wifi access code on the receipt for the rest of the day.
Problem solved!
Coderz 4 Life
We're practically neighbors. I'm next door in Wise County.
But hey, we're geeks! There is a technological solution to everything.
What if, when you purchase something (anything) there is one-time-only login code on your receipt. Make it good for an hour. Perhaps 90 minutes.
When you buy something else, your login is renewed (or you're issued a new one).
All of the hot chicks in coffee shops now are hunched over laptops. Completely unapproachable by filthy scum like me.
Well, why not hand out two types of tokens. With a purchase, you get one valid for 45 minutes. Without one, you get one good for 15 minutes. After several rounds of having to ask for free access again, and again, I'd guess that most leechers would go somewhere else.
Anything with "Free" associated with it... the aholes will take advantage of everytime/anytime guaranteed. I guess these coffee shops figured their clientelle was above this. HA!
You could always visit another hotspot. How's the coffee, though?
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
The other day some chucklehead brought a bag of burger king to a coffeeshop I was at. Then got pissy when the owner asked him to leave.
How much of an ingrate can some people be?
-
Ok, this is Slashdot, I admit. But it seems like so many comments are offering technical solutions for a now non-existant problem. The cafe had a problem, solved it by just turning off access, problem solved, business improved to boot! Why insist on suggesting schemes that won't help anything?
Seriously. If I knew someone was going to type a password on my computer I would know exactly what they typed before they got 5 steps away.
Yay enforcing the stereotype of computers and their users being antisocial!
"I don't like going into a cafe, any cafe, including my own, and just seeing a sea of laptops and people not interacting."
How would he know if they're interacting with anyone? Is interaction within the local sphere of strangers whose only thing in common is a love for espresso somehow a superior interaction technique than meeting people in online fora where you have something substantial in common with?
Only to a neophyte whose only understanding of high speed internet was that "customers seemed to want it".
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
But what about discussions about Linux and Japanamation?
You're totally right. An elegant solution would be expensive to do. How about a more crude implementation: 1. Buy 6 cheap netgear APs at Fry's for $10 each. 2. Configure each one with a different, but simple WEP. Use masking tape to label each one with its WEP.
3. Connect each one to one of those cheap electric outlet timer gizmos so it runs for an hour then shuts off. Sync the timers so one there is always at least one running.
4. Put all this junk behind the counter.
5. Magic marker a sign that says, "Ask cachier to write the wi-fi password on your receipt." Attach to front of counter.
The barrista can easily look at the APs to see which is turned on and give out the password taped on it. I agree that one hour is a little short. With this timer deal, you can even set it for 1.5 hours. Sure, over time, a crafty customer is going to collect all the passwords. You could change them each week and relabel the masking tape on the APs.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Sounds like the tragedy of the commons rearing its ugly head.
The smarter thing to do would be to integrate your point-of-sale system (which you can get linux-based) with your AP so that when someone buys something their AP access code prints on the receipt. Keying in the code gives you a 'dose' of internet access for, say, 15 mins.
http://www.chillispot.org/ (I wonder if this would fit in a WRT54G distro?)
Just set up bandwidth shaping so that each MAC address gradually starts slowing way down after an hour. Slow, not stopped, means they have a chance to finish their work and log off cleanly.
"Aw, fook! My Linux ISO download just got to 90% complete, and my transfer rate just got shot to shit. Oh well, I'm not going to quit now. I'll just sit here taking up space until it completes, no matter how long that takes."
would an obvious suggestion to meet women get modded "informative."
Priceless.
Remember, when she's having trouble with her wireless connection...that's when you make your move! (and she doesn't have any problems, you can interfere with her signal...)
(to Karma whore: the laundromat, grocery store, and park are also non-bar places to meet women...thank you! I expect a +5 in ten minutes! ha!)
How about just making it so you have to buy something to use the net? Or otherwise pay? Yeah, a system like that would cost a bit of money, but if they have that many laptop users they could make it back pretty quickly.
But the prices shouldn't be too high: Buy a coffee, get 45 minutes, or something.
Interestingly enough I go to the coffee shop that I go to specifically because there is no wifi. If they installed it, I would get nothing done!
Actually someone I knew went up to the waitress and requested they get it. My response was 'if you install it, I am not coming back'...
forget it.
This was there most profitable day according to the article. My wife and I came in, both with laptops to get out of the apartment and get a little studying done, I had a bunch of email from my family that I hadn't answered yet. We bought our coffee and pasteries and got a seat at a table. At the time we were a little surprised to get a table that easily. After we settled in and tried the internet and found out that weekends are now only half service (the sign is only visible once you get past the cash register). So we promptly poured out our coffee, neatly stacked our cups in the bucket and left.
Yes, they did great business on Sunday. They certainly got my money and I only used the table for five minutes so I'm sure they are happy. I wonder how many other people came in, got coffee before they found out that the Wifi was off then left to go somewhere else. I won't ever be going back there. The idea that my emailing my family is not the 'right kind' of social interaction for their establishment pissed me off. Luckily there are other cafes that are not as full of themselves nearby.
Since they are so concerned about their "Culture" they should be more proactive. People wanting to hang out in their coffee shop should submit a sumary of the conversations held in their coffee shop to ensure the right kind of people are hanging out in their cafe. They could even supply note cards with sample topics for their patrons.
Sacramento, CA has a lot of coffee shops. Rarely are cute girls seen studying, unless it's at one of the shops right near one of the colleges. The downtown area? It's the bikers. Java City at 18th & Capitol Ave right in downtown used to be a great place, but the groups of motorcycles *thundering* down the street (Really, some of these bikes are just too goddamn loud) and taking up all of the outside tables prevent anyone else from actually getting a seat.
:P
They're not a biker gang, but many of them attent a nearby methadone clinic. They have no jobs and nothing to do, so they sit there *all day long* - literally. Thanks to similar folks, Java City cancelled its $0.50 refill policy and got rid of the nice glass dishes as well.
Point is, it's not always the WiFi geeks - people are generally mooches.
Dana Street Roasting Company in Mountain View, CA has free wifi, but no power outlets. It does the job quite well. :-)
Maybe they should try sticking their pictures on a shame faced parasite board.
"Aw, fook! My Linux ISO download just got to 90% complete, and my transfer rate just got shot to shit. Oh well, I'm not going to quit now. I'll just sit here taking up space until it completes, no matter how long that takes."
In practise what happens is that once the slowdown gets to zero either the download software times out or the user hangs around for ten minutes, sees no progress and because they don't want to waste their own time says "stuff this" and goes home.
---
Any large public or private organisation paying recurring, per-seat licensing for software is being economically stupid.
It's more than that. Victrola never needed wi-fi to fill its chairs. It's a different coffee shop because of its community and atmosphere and great coffee and music at night. In most other cafes, particularly the chains, you need wi-fi to make the place more interesting and better utilize the space on off hours. These are things Victrola never needed. This ended up being combined with the fact that Capitol Hill is also the capitol of lazy kids who think society owes them something, and suddenly Victrola's culture was in trouble.
I applaud Victrola's decision, even as a heavy user of free wifi in coffeeshops. You'd think I'd be against Victrola's decision, but I'm for it. The thing is, I can get free wifi many places in Seattle now. I want Victrola to emphasize what makes it different from all the other coffeeshops in town, and wifi was destroying that.
Unless those people who don't use computers ALSO don't eat food that is shipped via large freight companies in trucks, and ALSO don't use electricity from a central grid, and ALSO don't depend on services like 911, then the loss of computers would seriously screw them.
Imagine a Winter without a centrally-managed electrical grid, and without shipments of fuel.
I'm one of those people who camps for hours in a coffee shop with a laptop plugged in and writing code. I do it so that I can have a social life. Sure, it cuts down on productivity when a friend or acquaintance passes by, but by allowing myself to be interruptable this way I can get involved in a project without also becoming a recluse. Plus, whatever I'm working on (when it's one of my own special interest projects) is often a good conversation piece. The cafe that I frequent is close to a University, so sometimes what I may catch a glimpse of on someone else's screen may be a useful social lubricant.
I make a point of rewarding the proprietor with numerous purchases of coffee and at least one full course meal in exchange for the few pennies worth of electricity that I've cost him. I like to sit at a bench so that I can dynamically vary the size of my footprint depending upon how busy the place is, and to accommodate the visits of friends.
I think it is just part of the social contract to spend more the longer you are occupying space in an establishment, just as if you were to spend a whole evening at a bar you would be expected to have ordered a few drinks and not just one or none. Is it too much a stretch of the imagination for long staying coffee drinkers to adopt similar etiquette?
How about limiting a room to computer and wifi use only. True, wifi would probably extend from one to the other, but it is easy to see computer users. Say, "sorry this room is computer/cell/device free". Heck, if that room had a cell phone blocker, I bet they would do LOADS of business.
You aren't against the tech, it just has its place. That place is over in THAT room.
Party at O'zorgnax's Pub! Buy me a Slurmtini aye?