Yes. The name implies existance of some base system which is somewhat similar between different BSD branches. Good if you want to make a router out of some toaster in case of NetBSD, nothing much of anything else.
Debian on the other hand provides a truckload of packages which actually work on supposed architectures. This is a lot of work which grandparent so easily dismissed.
If you have ever even used a BSD OS, the ports tree is nearly idiot-proof.
Sorry, you are wrong or trolling. I am using and have used different branches of BSDs on servers, and QA of ports tree is nothing compared to Debian quality.
It is somewhaot alike Debian's unstable branch and I'm actually being kind here.
Everything works in the most logical, clean and consistent manner out of any software distribution system I have ever seen.
Well, then you didn't see a lot, did you? I'm supporting, uh, some number of servers. Debian machines constantly give me less trouble, are updated more easily (keeping software installed from ports up-to-date tree is a nightmare, thank you very much).
Installing software from ports tree is a breeze (when it is not broken, mkay). Supporting it in the long run is somewhat less of a breeze. Maintaing it so contents of/usr/local won't become a complete mess takes a lot of effort.
Especially when you are supporting not exactly that one server in your parent's basement.
iii) There really aren't any "BSD zealots".
Yep. That's exactly why you have added this righteous paragraph about superiority of one platform over another. Insecurity? Zealotry? You name it.;-)
Look, BSDs have their strong points, e.g. making a router of a toaster is NetBSDs best job. Debian or other linux distributions have their weak and strong points too.
For example, lack of coherent "base system" comes to mind, but it is more of a difference for some guy with BSD background, actual weakness is arguable here.
And pretty please, don't try to label me as a Linux fanboy. Or Windows fanboy. Or whatever fanboy. I work with different unixes on a daily basis, Linux is just one of the tools to make the job done.
I have entered this discussion only because of grandparent highly dismissive opinion about Debian project's efforts which was modded up to eleven, maybe by those zealots which you say don't exist, I don't know. I showed him another opinion, which was somewhat dismissive too. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between.
When I've tried to use my Palm as a "laptop replacement" then I've had that experience too, though I never managed to suffer irrecoverable data loss no matter HOW hard I pushed it.
Yep. That's why "soft reset ten times per day", not "hard reset". Very annoying anyway and doesn't really speak well for PalmOS programmers.
I don't use PDA as a laptop replacement. As I posted some times before, generally I read books and use PIM. I don't even have a laptop and feel no need for one, that's why I didn't say anything about vast superior multimedia or whatever capabilities of Windows Mobile line, because I see no use for it anyway in a handheld.
better, get a cheap PalmOS device and quit looking for something that isn't "technologicaly retarded".
You know, some basic stuff like font anti-aliasing and fucking normal multi-lingual support with unicode wouldn't hurt even for a "simple handheld". Cyrillification issues (I'm a russian guy) of PalmOS are an endless torment.
Some real multitasking (no, horrible hacks
don't qualify) so I could use IRC and book reader simultaneously if I ever wanted to would be kinda nice too, don't you think? Even for a simple handheld?:-)
My point is, PalmOS is nice interface wise, I like it very much, it is easy to use and all that, give or take a few quirks. But as of year 2005 it is very outdated and needs refreshment, just like OS9 before OSX.
I don't know what Palm is thinking with their two last half-assed flagship products (T5 and LifeDrive). Maybe they just need money to survive until new OS will be ready, I dunno.
By the way, recent PalmOS devices use the same Xscale processors and ARM architecture and under the hood (IMHO) are very similar to the PPC line.
PalmOS has gotten worse and worse in terms of stability (lookup information on PalmOS 5.4 aka soft reset ten times per day).
All this years while PalmOS5 has been becoming more and more technologically retarded, Microsoft was slowly enhancing its offering, like they always do: PPC2000 and below was horrible, PPC2002 was somewhat usable, WM2003 was okay and 2003SE is actually pretty good.
Compare PocketPC devices with VGA screens, exceptional communication capabilities and good battery life with this recent LifeDrive shit of palmOne creation. And I was hoping for a new GOOD Tungsten flagship PDA...
Palm really needs a good leader like mr. Jobbs who could recreate Apple from the ashes. As was already noted in the discussion, Palm is in very similar position with pre-Jobbs Apple right now.
Note for flamers or idiot moderators - I own a Palm device (Tungsten T5), WM2003SE device (Loox 718) and have been poking aroung with PDAs since Palm m100.
Cygwin is too slow for it's own good because of all this userspace virtual-unix compatibility shit.
I suppose grandparent would like his find/grep function fast, so native win32 versions of gnu textutils, which actually do exist, are much more appropriate.
You make it sound like bandwidth prioritizing and shaping is somehow limited to OpenBSD. It is not.
If you like Linux you can use tc which is a very powerful and flexible tool (see lartc.org for more information). FreeBSD had ALTQ for ages which can do a lot of stuff.
GPO integration would also be a nice thing to have, including rollout of updates via AD.
Currently, maintaining out of box Firefox is a nightmare in enterprise environment (yes, I know that some sorta-kinda unfinished patched distributions exist).
After such amazing "role-playing" classics like ToEE aka kill all monsters and VTM aka kill all monsters once again?
Arcanum, yes, was pretty good if you got past horrible interface, bugs, plotholes and mediocre 18th century stylization. But all that other stuff was complete hack-n-slash crap.
And if you can't even get your hack-n-slash crap pass the marketing you'd better leave the industry altogether.
Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux?
on
NeroLinux vs. K3b
·
· Score: 1
Bah! What kind of geek uses these fancy-shmancy KDE cd burning tools.
With the ability to easily tell what file belongs to what package and to see all files of specific package there is nothing hard "to find where things end up".
Indeed. What matters (and what I wanted to clear up in the first place) is that removing iexplore.exe is pointless - it won't change anything from default Windows behaviour of hiding it and next service pack will most probably restore it anyway.
So what? It won't remove insecure mshtml engine from the system or stop gazillion programs from using it.
Deleting poor little iexplore.exe has nothing to do with removing Internet Explorer from the system, I'm actually surprised that someone with support.microsoft.com URL in their profile does not know this.
This is, I suppose, because Bitstream Vera fonts look ugly when rendered without anti-aliasing.
If you want crispy looking fonts you can get windows ones (they have a set of fonts, which doesn't require Windows license) and disable anti-aliasing (for some specific font sizes range) in fontconfig.
Debian clones have bytecode interpreter enabled, so you'll get exactly the same rendering as in Windows (for example, in Fedora, you'll have to rebuild freetype library to get good looking fonts).
Getting Windows fonts is, of course, not a right solution for Linux desktop, but fonts are hard to make and currently there is nothing better than Bitstream Vera.
And here I am with gigabytes of music and with no intention to use iTMS ever (DRM'ed AACs at 128kbps? Sorry, fsck it, I prefer my 320kbit MP3s, thank you very much)...
Unsurprisingly, I still think that my iPod mini is pretty cool, but I'm judging on the interface, ease of use and overall outlook, the real stuff which made me pay hard (I'm russian, ever heard about average payrates here?) earned $329, not some mythical pseudo-ethical "uh-huh I support the artist" categories.
This "support the artist, therefore cool" thing would have qualified for some underdog open-source geeky OGG player integrated with even geekier OGG underdog band music store, not mainstream product from Apple.
Sorry, but you are mistaken. The public generally does not care a little bit. They want to play their music, legal or not, from iTMS or Kazaa.
If you look at something like Redhat, which is a distribution, you have more of a comparison, and you will find remote exploits.
This comparison is not very fair. Linux distributions are much more modular and a lot of alternatives for critical software like MTAs are available.
If you use Windows you are stuck with a lot of stuff you can't dispose of. Good, solid, exploit-proof stuff like mshtml engine and various RPC-based services.
Re:Engineering within limits brings great results
on
Where's My 10 Ghz PC?
·
· Score: 1
Now that I think about it you could have some local configuration problem.
I just installed gedit - it launched in a second first time on my Debian box running FVWM.
I don't use Gnome so probably I won't be of much help, but sometimes fontconfig (which GTK uses) slows program startup a lot if you have many fonts installed. You could investigate that. Or try running gedit under strace.
Re:Engineering within limits brings great results
on
Where's My 10 Ghz PC?
·
· Score: 1
Gedit is based, for example, on the GTK toolkit. Did your "MSDOS edit" have anti-aliased fonts and RTL input?
Do you really think that all this stuff you consider basic and don't even think about comes for free?
Vim starts in a second and it shreds that "MSDOS edit" to pieces in terms of functionality. Think about it.
The oldest is the "Keyboard not found, press F1 to continue" bug. Fortunatly, that one seems to FINALLY be going away.
Design flaw, right, right. Plug the keyboard and press F1. Simple, eh?
Slashdot Mirror
Umm sorry, what? i) Ports (as in architectures):
Yes. The name implies existance of some base system which is somewhat similar between different BSD branches. Good if you want to make a router out of some toaster in case of NetBSD, nothing much of anything else.
Debian on the other hand provides a truckload of packages which actually work on supposed architectures. This is a lot of work which grandparent so easily dismissed.
If you have ever even used a BSD OS, the ports tree is nearly idiot-proof.
Sorry, you are wrong or trolling. I am using and have used different branches of BSDs on servers, and QA of ports tree is nothing compared to Debian quality.
It is somewhaot alike Debian's unstable branch and I'm actually being kind here.
Everything works in the most logical, clean and consistent manner out of any software distribution system I have ever seen.
Well, then you didn't see a lot, did you? I'm supporting, uh, some number of servers. Debian machines constantly give me less trouble, are updated more easily (keeping software installed from ports up-to-date tree is a nightmare, thank you very much).
Installing software from ports tree is a breeze (when it is not broken, mkay). Supporting it in the long run is somewhat less of a breeze. Maintaing it so contents of /usr/local won't become a complete mess takes a lot of effort.
Especially when you are supporting not exactly that one server in your parent's basement.
iii) There really aren't any "BSD zealots".
Yep. That's exactly why you have added this righteous paragraph about superiority of one platform over another. Insecurity? Zealotry? You name it. ;-)
Look, BSDs have their strong points, e.g. making a router of a toaster is NetBSDs best job. Debian or other linux distributions have their weak and strong points too.
For example, lack of coherent "base system" comes to mind, but it is more of a difference for some guy with BSD background, actual weakness is arguable here.
And pretty please, don't try to label me as a Linux fanboy. Or Windows fanboy. Or whatever fanboy. I work with different unixes on a daily basis, Linux is just one of the tools to make the job done.
I have entered this discussion only because of grandparent highly dismissive opinion about Debian project's efforts which was modded up to eleven, maybe by those zealots which you say don't exist, I don't know. I showed him another opinion, which was somewhat dismissive too. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between.
Yes, because they package a truckload of upstream stuff. You know, a truckload of stuff that works.
Not just some obscure barely usable BSD lookalike base system with half working ports.
Alright now, BSD zealots, mod me into oblivion, but I've really been there. ;-)
Be careful with those loose functions. They might just fall out.
*ka-ching*
When I've tried to use my Palm as a "laptop replacement" then I've had that experience too, though I never managed to suffer irrecoverable data loss no matter HOW hard I pushed it.
Yep. That's why "soft reset ten times per day", not "hard reset". Very annoying anyway and doesn't really speak well for PalmOS programmers.
I don't use PDA as a laptop replacement. As I posted some times before, generally I read books and use PIM. I don't even have a laptop and feel no need for one, that's why I didn't say anything about vast superior multimedia or whatever capabilities of Windows Mobile line, because I see no use for it anyway in a handheld.
better, get a cheap PalmOS device and quit looking for something that isn't "technologicaly retarded".
You know, some basic stuff like font anti-aliasing and fucking normal multi-lingual support with unicode wouldn't hurt even for a "simple handheld". Cyrillification issues (I'm a russian guy) of PalmOS are an endless torment.
Some real multitasking (no, horrible hacks don't qualify) so I could use IRC and book reader simultaneously if I ever wanted to would be kinda nice too, don't you think? Even for a simple handheld? :-)
My point is, PalmOS is nice interface wise, I like it very much, it is easy to use and all that, give or take a few quirks. But as of year 2005 it is very outdated and needs refreshment, just like OS9 before OSX.
I don't know what Palm is thinking with their two last half-assed flagship products (T5 and LifeDrive). Maybe they just need money to survive until new OS will be ready, I dunno.
By the way, recent PalmOS devices use the same Xscale processors and ARM architecture and under the hood (IMHO) are very similar to the PPC line.
Sorry, you are wrong.
PalmOS has gotten worse and worse in terms of stability (lookup information on PalmOS 5.4 aka soft reset ten times per day).
All this years while PalmOS5 has been becoming more and more technologically retarded, Microsoft was slowly enhancing its offering, like they always do: PPC2000 and below was horrible, PPC2002 was somewhat usable, WM2003 was okay and 2003SE is actually pretty good.
Compare PocketPC devices with VGA screens, exceptional communication capabilities and good battery life with this recent LifeDrive shit of palmOne creation. And I was hoping for a new GOOD Tungsten flagship PDA...
Palm really needs a good leader like mr. Jobbs who could recreate Apple from the ashes. As was already noted in the discussion, Palm is in very similar position with pre-Jobbs Apple right now.
Note for flamers or idiot moderators - I own a Palm device (Tungsten T5), WM2003SE device (Loox 718) and have been poking aroung with PDAs since Palm m100.
http://trolldot.org
Cygwin is too slow for it's own good because of all this userspace virtual-unix compatibility shit.
I suppose grandparent would like his find/grep function fast, so native win32 versions of gnu textutils, which actually do exist, are much more appropriate.
They are so like Poland, isn't it?
Sorry, but it's not the diamond itself, it's the act of spending shitloads of money on them is what matters.
So, make them price higher than DeBeers crap and you've got yourself a winner.
Huh huh huh. Beavis, he said cum.
You make it sound like bandwidth prioritizing and shaping is somehow limited to OpenBSD. It is not.
If you like Linux you can use tc which is a very powerful and flexible tool (see lartc.org for more information). FreeBSD had ALTQ for ages which can do a lot of stuff.
GPO integration would also be a nice thing to have, including rollout of updates via AD.
Currently, maintaining out of box Firefox is a nightmare in enterprise environment (yes, I know that some sorta-kinda unfinished patched distributions exist).
Sorry, but by this logic "Matrix Revolutions" is really good.
Much missed? By whom exactly?
After such amazing "role-playing" classics like ToEE aka kill all monsters and VTM aka kill all monsters once again?
Arcanum, yes, was pretty good if you got past horrible interface, bugs, plotholes and mediocre 18th century stylization. But all that other stuff was complete hack-n-slash crap.
And if you can't even get your hack-n-slash crap pass the marketing you'd better leave the industry altogether.
Bah! What kind of geek uses these fancy-shmancy KDE cd burning tools.
mkisofs and cdrecord/growisofs for life!
Have you heard of package managers?
With the ability to easily tell what file belongs to what package and to see all files of specific package there is nothing hard "to find where things end up".
Indeed. What matters (and what I wanted to clear up in the first place) is that removing iexplore.exe is pointless - it won't change anything from default Windows behaviour of hiding it and next service pack will most probably restore it anyway.
So, well, duh. I don't see the point.
So what? It won't remove insecure mshtml engine from the system or stop gazillion programs from using it.
Deleting poor little iexplore.exe has nothing to do with removing Internet Explorer from the system, I'm actually surprised that someone with support.microsoft.com URL in their profile does not know this.
This is, I suppose, because Bitstream Vera fonts look ugly when rendered without anti-aliasing.
If you want crispy looking fonts you can get windows ones (they have a set of fonts, which doesn't require Windows license) and disable anti-aliasing (for some specific font sizes range) in fontconfig.
Debian clones have bytecode interpreter enabled, so you'll get exactly the same rendering as in Windows (for example, in Fedora, you'll have to rebuild freetype library to get good looking fonts).
Getting Windows fonts is, of course, not a right solution for Linux desktop, but fonts are hard to make and currently there is nothing better than Bitstream Vera.
This won't work in 2.9.90 (or 2.10 beta1) because GNOME switched to FDO XDG menu scheme and old VFS based approach was removed.
Currently there is no way to user-friendly edit the menus, in 2.10 there supposed to be a menu editor.
And here I am with gigabytes of music and with no intention to use iTMS ever (DRM'ed AACs at 128kbps? Sorry, fsck it, I prefer my 320kbit MP3s, thank you very much)...
Unsurprisingly, I still think that my iPod mini is pretty cool, but I'm judging on the interface, ease of use and overall outlook, the real stuff which made me pay hard (I'm russian, ever heard about average payrates here?) earned $329, not some mythical pseudo-ethical "uh-huh I support the artist" categories.
This "support the artist, therefore cool" thing would have qualified for some underdog open-source geeky OGG player integrated with even geekier OGG underdog band music store, not mainstream product from Apple.
Sorry, but you are mistaken. The public generally does not care a little bit. They want to play their music, legal or not, from iTMS or Kazaa.
If you look at something like Redhat, which is a distribution, you have more of a comparison, and you will find remote exploits.
This comparison is not very fair. Linux distributions are much more modular and a lot of alternatives for critical software like MTAs are available.
If you use Windows you are stuck with a lot of stuff you can't dispose of. Good, solid, exploit-proof stuff like mshtml engine and various RPC-based services.
Now that I think about it you could have some local configuration problem.
I just installed gedit - it launched in a second first time on my Debian box running FVWM.
I don't use Gnome so probably I won't be of much help, but sometimes fontconfig (which GTK uses) slows program startup a lot if you have many fonts installed. You could investigate that. Or try running gedit under strace.
Gedit is based, for example, on the GTK toolkit. Did your "MSDOS edit" have anti-aliased fonts and RTL input?
Do you really think that all this stuff you consider basic and don't even think about comes for free?
Vim starts in a second and it shreds that "MSDOS edit" to pieces in terms of functionality. Think about it.
The oldest is the "Keyboard not found, press F1 to continue" bug. Fortunatly, that one seems to FINALLY be going away. Design flaw, right, right. Plug the keyboard and press F1. Simple, eh?